Once a Swinger Always A Swinger?

[Yip 15]

Hi,

 

I'm new to this scene and have some questions. I started seeing a wonderful man 9 months ago. He was just out of a marriage with an alcoholic, I had lost my husband to cancer and we both fell hard for each other. He was upfront and told me that he and his ex had been swingers for a number of years and after her, he was hooked up on the swinger sites as a single but told me he had gotten off all of them when we started seeing each other. He told me he was so happy to be in a relationship and out of the LS as it really wasn't fulfilling to him. He did not do this at my request but rather told me about it after the fact.

 

Long story short, a few weeks ago I found out that he had signed back up on a couple of sites. I confronted him with this and he came clean, saying he fell back into the habit and that trying to get people to respond to him on the sites was almost like an addiction. He told me that he had not literally hooked up with anyone yet and that he loves me and wants to make 'us' work and doesn't need the LS to be happy.

 

So, my questions are:

 

Does one ever really get out of the lifestyle for good? Once you have experienced the excitement of it, is one woman/person ever enough?

 

He's never asked me if I have an interest in getting involved with the LS myself. I'm not sure if it's for me and think it might be fun. Why hasn't he approached me about it if it's something he still wants to be involved with?

 

Can anyone give me a little more understanding of this situation? I'm totally confused at this point.

 

Thanks much.

[ncmd_couple 597]

Honestly, if you want the answer to that question, sit down and talk to him. Let him know that you think it might be fun and ask him to explain the LS to you from his viewpoint. You will hear a lot about communications here, and there is a good reason for it.

[iapr 24]

I think your confusion is understandable and your concerns valid. I have not been in your situation and can not tell you what to do but I will try and share some of my thoughts on your questions and then add some other thoughts on the topic that you may or may not have considered.

 

#1. Yes, there are a lot of people that dip their toes into the lifestyle and then get out. There are a lot of people that were on sites and going to parties as singles and then met a "vanilla" (ie nonswinger) and left the lifestyle for good, so yes it does happen a lot. There are even people that do it seriously for years and then get out and there are A LOT of people that go in spurts as time and interest allows over a period of years.

 

#2. That really depends on each person and the nature of their relationship and what they want out of the relationship. Personally I don't see this as a "once you get a taste of it you will always have a taste for it" type of thing. We had a completely monogamous and faithfull marriage for 10 years before we got into the lifestyle and I see no reason we couldn't go back to that. Think of it this way a lot of people are promiscuous before marriage but are monogamous after marriage.

 

That being said there are also a lot of people out there that are not capable of monogamy and will always be either out looking for some extra tail or will drop their pants whenever given an opportunity. If someone is a cheater they are a cheater whether they call themselves a swinger or not. But please keep in mind cheating and swinging are two different worlds although swingers can be cheaters and cheaters can cloak themselves as swingers. In the end we always make a conscious choice of who we have sex with and what we do with our genitals. Any line about addictions is a bunch of crap.

 

#3. That's an interesting question and I was not expecting that and maybe niether was he. He may just be assuming that you are a normal traditional woman and that you would be offended by the idea of swinging. He may have been initially sincere in getting off of the swinger sites and sincere in the idea of having a traditional relationship with you and just didn't think you would go for it.

 

 

Now for my concerns that you have not addressed yet. First off this story contains lies and deceptions and coming up with stories with cover his tracks.

IMHO anyone who tells a tale of getting on a swinging site because it is "addictive" is full of crap. It's fun and exciting yes but any tales of "addiction" is just trying to pull one over on you. Trying to score a piece off of a swinger site while supposedly in a traditional relationship is bad behaviour and not an addiction. He was not coming clean with you, he was giving you a song and dance and since he already has a history of codependance he was using addiction as an excuse figuring you would be sympathetic to that and buy off on it without too much fuss.

 

Now when he said he was not fullfilled as a single guy in the lifestyle he was probably telling the truth. Single guys in the lifestyle have a very hard time actually scoring but from the sounds of it that didn't stop him from continuing to try. Also Since it is so hard for a single guy to hook up on a swinger site he may have been telling you the truth that he hasn't screwed anyone from there, but if the "intent" was there does it really matter that he hasn't been successfull? Let me put it this way, if I try to cheat on my wife and I go to a singles bar and hit on every woman I see and they all reject me and I don't hook up, does that mean that I am any less of an adulterer? Or am I just an adulterer that nobody wants?

 

 

 

Now I will say this, but read this carefully, he may have had some friends on the site that he wanted to keep in touch with and it is a lot of fun to flirt and dirty talk and participate in other forums like this and he may have been wanting to keep in touch with friends. HOWEVER, (this is the part you need to read carefully) he should have just came out and said that when you had your first discussions about him being on swinger sites and he should have just been upfront and open about it. Don't make some grand gesture of taking yourself off of a site to impress your new girlfriend and then sneak back on when she has forgotten about it.

 

 

I think you have reason to be upset and I think you have reason for concern. Obviously I don't think being on swinger sites is a bad thing and it is a lifetyle choice that works for my wife and I but I do believe lies and deceptions and false cover stories are always a bad thing and always a cause for concern.

 

There are red flags here and I think you need to have your eyes open wide and see what is really taking place and not just take his or anyone elses word for it.

[VegasLee 1,486]

Since he is honest with you about this I think the best thing is talk to him.

 

Find out what he foresees in his life concerning the lifestyle and if you fit in to it in anyway. You appear to have an open mind and some interest so it does not hurt to talk to him about all this and your relationship with him.

 

No need to attack, when you confronted him he came clean. Does not appear to be lying about what he has done and is doing from what you have told us.

 

Communication is the most important thing in the relationship and in the Lifestyle. You have expressed that you two are able to talk to each other so run with it.

 

This Lifestyle is just a "hobby" to many of the people in it, others it is a Lifestyle and they live it. You need to figure out where he is within it and see if it is something you can live with either way. If not, you both have choices to make.

 

Good Luck.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Hi,

He did not do this at my request but rather told me about it after the fact.

 

:rolleyes:He certainly deserves credit(points) for being honest.

 

Long story short, a few weeks ago I found out that he had signed back up on a couple of sites. I confronted him with this and he came clean, saying he fell back into the habit and that trying to get people to respond to him on the sites was almost like an addiction. He told me that he had not literally hooked up with anyone yet and that he loves me and wants to make 'us' work and doesn't need the LS to be happy.

 

I believe what he might be saying here,

 

Are their genuine couples that he had known previously, that he is making contact with?

 

Or is it just the general replies from someone he finds interesting that he seems to be (hooked on)?

 

So, my questions are:

 

Does one ever really get out of the lifestyle for good? Once you have experienced the excitement of it, is one woman/person ever enough?

 

Yes, it does happen. A few single males we know personally that were (into) the lifestyle broke things off with us, because they found the girl of their dreams,possibly true Love.We said our good buys and asked only 2 things.

 

1.Never introduce us without being honest about who we are.

 

2. Never expect us to hide anything as friends, from your possible new relationship if we should ever meet.

 

Honestly, from them being in the lifestyle, we feel that the authentic pro relationship/marriage that they understand, caused them to leave the lifestyle. We saw them disappear from the websites. Occasionally we see one log on again but its rarely. We can understand that, it would be hard not to.

 

He's never asked me if I have an interest in getting involved with the LS myself. I'm not sure if it's for me and think it might be fun.

 

Then by all means have this discussion at the table with him. IT is fun,if handled with an understanding and good communication.

 

 

Why hasn't he approached me about it if it's something he still wants to be involved with?

I can only think of one thing, Fear.

 

Fear of losing someone that is as special as you are.

 

I cant say how things ended for him before. But I'm thinking usually the female half of the couple gets more attention in the relationship. Is she still in the lifestyle, with a circle of friends from their relationship?

 

Can anyone give me a little more understanding of this situation? I'm totally confused at this point.

 

Thanks much,

 

Yip

 

Welcome to the swingers board Yip, We are all willing to help with any questions we could relate to from experience.

[Tybee Swing 286]

Hi Yip, welcome.

 

I started seeing a wonderful man 9 months ago. He was just out of a marriage with an alcoholic

 

Your relationship is new. How close/committed are you at this point? Personally, if I were at the stage of "seeing each other", I don't think that starting to swing would be for me. I feel that having a very strong, secure relationship based on trust is pretty essential before stepping into this. You two are still growing together, and he hasn't been forthcoming with you up until now. In other words, I feel that you two need time to grow together, first. Get some roots on your relationship.

 

Long story short, a few weeks ago I found out that he had signed back up on a couple of sites. I confronted him with this and he came clean, saying he fell back into the habit and that trying to get people to respond to him on the sites was almost like an addiction. He told me that he had not literally hooked up with anyone yet and that he loves me and wants to make 'us' work and doesn't need the LS to be happy.

 

He was caught playing the "single guy" online, and only after he was confronted did he 'fess up to you. This kind of behavior sure doesn't breed trust between two people. Trust and honesty are imperative in any healthy relationship. I think that for a couple to handle the lifestyle, you have to rely on the deep trust you have for each other even more. If that's not there yet, you might not have much to stand on.

 

I'm just saying, at least give it time and grow your relationship. Express to him that playing "single guy" behind your back (pursuing people online while leaving you out, etc.) is extremely damaging to your relationship.

 

He used the word "addiction" with you regarding him trying to get people to respond to him online. I feel like he was using that as an excuse to get off the hook of taking responsibility for what he was up to. If he'd said something like, "It's fun; I like to collect their pictures", or something like that, it's not exactly going to gain your sympathy. But, if this stuff is really an addiction for him, he's got an issue he ought to be working on. In other words, you've got either a liar or an addict - neither one of those is a good candidate to start swinging with.

 

I'm not saying "don't ever swing with this guy". I'm saying that he needs to grow up and learn how to be a real man in a real relationship, first. He needs to deal with you honestly and openly. In his former relationship, he was straight out of a marriage with an alcoholic when he started seeing you. Maybe he needs to make some time (and away from his online interests) to work through stuff and learn what it is to be in a really healthy relationship.

 

Good luck!

[Yip 15]

Now for my concerns that you have not addressed yet. First off this story contains lies and deceptions and coming up with stories with cover his tracks.

IMHO anyone who tells a tale of getting on a swinging site because it is "addictive" is full of crap. It's fun and exciting yes but any tales of "addiction" is just trying to pull one over on you. Trying to score a piece off of a swinger site while supposedly in a traditional relationship is bad behaviour and not an addiction. He was not coming clean with you, he was giving you a song and dance and since he already has a history of codependance he was using addiction as an excuse figuring you would be sympathetic to that and buy off on it without too much fuss.

 

In reference to the 'addiction' excuse, not knowing anything about the LS, I just wasn't sure. I know people can be addicted to sex, so thought it was possible for him to be addicted to the excitement of the pursuit.I hate to believe that he was trying to pull one over on me but the more I read the comments on here, the more I feel you are right.

 

Now when he said he was not fullfilled as a single guy in the lifestyle he was probably telling the truth. Single guys in the lifestyle have a very hard time actually scoring but from the sounds of it that didn't stop him from continuing to try. Also Since it is so hard for a single guy to hook up on a swinger site he may have been telling you the truth that he hasn't screwed anyone from there, but if the "intent" was there does it really matter that he hasn't been successfull? Let me put it this way, if I try to cheat on my wife and I go to a singles bar and hit on every woman I see and they all reject me and I don't hook up, does that mean that I am any less of an adulterer? Or am I just an adulterer that nobody wants?

 

As much as I want to believe him when he says he didn't 'score', something in my heart tells me he did. I've tried to put myself in his position and I think if I wanted to save the relationship, I might not tell him if I scored. That being said, your point is well taken - a cheater is a cheater whether he scored or not.

 

Now I will say this, but read this carefully, he may have had some friends on the site that he wanted to keep in touch with and it is a lot of fun to flirt and dirty talk and participate in other forums like this and he may have been wanting to keep in touch with friends. HOWEVER, (this is the part you need to read carefully) he should have just came out and said that when you had your first discussions about him being on swinger sites and he should have just been upfront and open about it. Don't make some grand gesture of taking yourself off of a site to impress your new girlfriend and then sneak back on when she has forgotten about it.

 

I know he has people from the LS that he keeps in touch with - I'm not sure if it's for the friendships as I know real friendships ARE formed in the LS. After the lies though, I guess my gut tells me it's to keep his 'options' open.

 

I think you have reason to be upset and I think you have reason for concern. Obviously I don't think being on swinger sites is a bad thing and it is a lifetyle choice that works for my wife and I but I do believe lies and deceptions and false cover stories are always a bad thing and always a cause for concern.

 

There are red flags here and I think you need to have your eyes open wide and see what is really taking place and not just take his or anyone elses word for it.

 

I can tell that those of you that have responded to me are upfront and open about your choices and that you wouldn't 'cheat' on your SO's. I would hope that he is now at that same point because after losing my husband, my heart is too tender to withstand any more lies from him. That being said, how does one ever know for sure? Do I just have to guard my heart and hope that his last declaration of me being all he needs is the truth? Do I have to watch and be suspicious of him???

 

Thank you so much for your comments and guidance - it means so much to me!

 

Yip

[Yip 15]

Sorry don't know how to use the 'quote' tool exactly right yet. This is in response to fun4Ds comments:

 

I believe what he might be saying here,

 

Are their genuine couples that he had known previously, that he is making contact with?

 

Or is it just the general replies from someone he finds interesting that he seems to be (hooked on)?

 

I know he has made contact with other couples that he had known before as well as some new ones along with some single women.

 

Quote:

Why hasn't he approached me about it if it's something he still wants to be involved with?

 

I can only think of one thing, Fear.

 

Fear of losing someone that is as special as you are.

 

I cant say how things ended for him before. But I'm thinking usually the female half of the couple gets more attention in the relationship. Is she still in the lifestyle, with a circle of friends from their relationship?

 

So if perhaps he didn't ask me because he was afraid of losing me, it makes no sense for him to have gotten back onto the websites unless he's just an outright cheat, right? He wanted his cake and to eat it too so to speak.

 

I'm not certain about how it ended for him before but from what he told me, it was his wife that first got them involved with the lifestyle and that their encounters at first were MFM but as time went on, they got into full swaps. I have the feeling that he got plenty of attention as he is very well endowed, long lasting and attentive to women. He's a degreed professional with many interests, goodlooking, athletic, respectful yada yada - someone I would definitely welcome into my circle if I were in the lifestyle.

 

I don't know if his wife is still in the LS as she has moved out of state. I would guess that if she is still involved, it's not with their old friends.

 

Thanks for your comments fun4Ds

 

Yip

[iapr 24]

.

 

 

He's never asked me if I have an interest in geting involved with the LS myself. I'm not sure if it's for me and think it might be fun. Why hasn't he approached me about it if it's something he still wants to be involved with?

 

 

Yip

 

 

I got to thinking about this some more and there is the possibility of there being some even more darker things going on here than I first thought of. There are a lot of guys that pose as single males on swinger sites that are actually married or otherwise involved men that just simply DO NOT WANT their SOs to swing with them. In other words they want the little wifey to be sitting at home waiting for them while they are out plugging someone else's wife. They are all for screwing someone else's spouse but they don't want their spouse to be touched by anyone else and they don't want their spouse to enjoy the fruits that the lifestyle has to offer. He may just want you to be sitting at home while he is out getting some extra while you are not getting to experience what is out there. I am not saying for sure that is what he is doing but it is a possibility to consider.

 

Also, I would like to discuss this sexual addiction thing a little more. I do not believe there is such a thing as sexual addiction, only bad behaviour. An alcoholic is addicted to alcohol, if they do not get alcohol they will have an actual medically significant withdrawl syndrome. They will have hallucinations, seizures, puke and shit and can even die. what happens if a supposed sex addict doesn't get sex? They just get hornier. Hell we are all horny.

 

Yes some people have a tremendously higher sex drive than others but they are not addicted. Anyone that uses the line that they are a sex addict is just want someone to get off their back and not hold them accountable for their actions.

 

Take a look at what a guy has to go through to have with a women and then tell me that he is not in control of his actions. First off a guy has to find a woman that will even speak to him. Then he has to impress her somehow and show her that he is some how "special" to her. Then he has to flirt with her and schmooze and take her out and buy her dinner/drinks and little gifts maybe do some dancing etc etc . Then he has to schmooze her up enough to get her alone somewhere and get her to make out with him. Then he has to get her comfortable enough for some actual petting and eventually foreplay and when her hormones are finally flowing then get her out of her clothes and then out of his clothes and then get her to a point where she will actually accept his dick into her body. Now you tell me what part of all of that appears to be the actions of a man that does not know what he is doing and is not responsible for his actions?

 

If you are thinking, "well these women are all on a swinger site so they are sluts and will spread their legs for anyone, right?..." WRONGO!!!!! I AM talking about what it takes to get a swinger chick into bed. Lets not even talk about what it takes for a traditional woman at this point.

 

My point to all of this is for a man to screw a chick he has to have a rational plan and execute it. It is a behaviour and not an addiction.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

He used the word "addiction" with you regarding him trying to get people to respond to him online. I feel like he was using that as an excuse to get off the hook of taking responsibility for what he was up to. If he'd said something like, "It's fun; I like to collect their pictures", or something like that, it's not exactly going to gain your sympathy. But, if this stuff is really an addiction for him, he's got an issue he ought to be working on. In other words, you've got either a liar or an addict - neither one of those is a good candidate to start swinging with.

 

this is the part I'm having the hardest time with as well. For something to be an addiction don't you have to be getting something out of it? In all likelihood as a single male he probably didn't get anywher if all he was doing was the ad sites. And really if he wasn't getting some then what is there to be hooked (addicted) on?

 

You've gotten a lot of really good advice here so I'm not going to repeat it all. Do sit down with him and discuss these things. I don't know if your relationship is at a point where swinging is the best idea, but even so, if you choose to explore it you may find that you enjoy it and even if the two of you don't work as a couple you might make great swing partners

[Yip 15]

Hi Yip, welcome.

 

Your relationship is new. How close/committed are you at this point? Personally, if I were at the stage of "seeing each other", I don't think that starting to swing would be for me. I feel that having a very strong, secure relationship based on trust is pretty essential before stepping into this. You two are still growing together, and he hasn't been forthcoming with you up until now. In other words, I feel that you two need time to grow together, first. Get some roots on your relationship.

 

We are extremely close. After I lost my husband, I couldn't stay in our home because of all the painful memories there. I cared for him there as he grew weaker and weaker and once he passed away, I just couldn't stand to be there. When I started seeing this new man - a relationship that I reluctantly entered into after he pursued me intently - I fell very fast and hard. He did as well and we became almost inseperable even though we live more than 90 minutes apart. He gave me his understanding and support without hesitation, without restraint and without judgment and it was because of this that I started to come back around, not 100% but definitely stronger than before he came into my life. It's because of his support that I eventually moved back into my home.

 

He was caught playing the "single guy" online, and only after he was confronted did he 'fess up to you. This kind of behavior sure doesn't breed trust between two people. Trust and honesty are imperative in any healthy relationship. I think that for a couple to handle the lifestyle, you have to rely on the deep trust you have for each other even more. If that's not there yet, you might not have much to stand on.

 

One more time I'm reminded that maybe I'm just dealing with a cheater. It's hard to imagine looking back at the depth and intensity of our relationship but maybe he's just a player . . . ???

 

I'm just saying, at least give it time and grow your relationship. Express to him that playing "single guy" behind your back (pursuing people online while leaving you out, etc.) is extremely damaging to your relationship.

 

As far as the LS goes, as I said before, I'm not against it and might even enjoy it myself. I do now have hesitations of being involved in it with him as I now have these trust issues.

 

He used the word "addiction" with you regarding him trying to get people to respond to him online. I feel like he was using that as an excuse to get off the hook of taking responsibility for what he was up to. If he'd said something like, "It's fun; I like to collect their pictures", or something like that, it's not exactly going to gain your sympathy. But, if this stuff is really an addiction for him, he's got an issue he ought to be working on. In other words, you've got either a liar or an addict - neither one of those is a good candidate to start swinging with.

 

When he told me it was an addiction, he also said that he "wasn't good at being alone". Again, we live 90 minutes apart so what's to keep this from happening again?

 

I'm not saying "don't ever swing with this guy". I'm saying that he needs to grow up and learn how to be a real man in a real relationship, first. He needs to deal with you honestly and openly. In his former relationship, he was straight out of a marriage with an alcoholic when he started seeing you. Maybe he needs to make some time (and away from his online interests) to work through stuff and learn what it is to be in a really healthy relationship.

 

Good luck!

 

Again, thanks so much for everyone's help. My heart has been so heavy (and isn't strong to start with) and I've been going through hell trying to figure this out on my own the last few weeks. Finding this site is the best thing that's happened to me.

 

Yip

[Tybee Swing 286]

Hi Yip,

 

Regarding this: Me - Express to him that playing "single guy" behind your back (pursuing people online while leaving you out, etc.) is extremely damaging to your relationship.

 

You - As far as the LS goes, as I said before, I'm not against it and might even enjoy it myself. I do now have hesitations of being involved in it with him as I now have these trust issues.

 

I understand that you might actually enjoy the lifestyle. However, timing is everything. Right now, you have a lot of confusion about his motives and what really drives him...rightfully so. When you added the detail that he's pursuing other single women online too (not just couples), that seemed really hurtful to me. This is important: until you are both on solid ground and truly, fully know and understand each other, and until you're being cherished and respected, you're not in a place where swinging is safe or practical for the two of you to enter into. It could possibly do great damage at this point.

 

Virtually all couples in swinging have been together and committed (usually married) for a long time before they ever start swinging together. They're coming from a very solid base. They usually have talked through every detail that they can think of before they start swinging; they want to assure themselves and each other that their relationship comes first above all else, and that nothing they do will cause any harm. That's first and foremost. You'll hear on this board that swinging has brought couples closer than ever; this is true. However, they came to it on solid footing. Swinging also can tear apart relationships that have issues going into it. Swinging can't "fix" anything, but it sure can highlight and point out what's already very right (or very wrong) in a relationship.

 

My heart goes out to you, because of all you've already been through, and this man has your heart now. I hope that he deserves you, because you sound like a real sweetheart. Let him know everything that's in your heart about this, and don't accept any lame excuses. Tell him that you need for him to get real with you.

 

"When he told me it was an addiction, he also said that he "wasn't good at being alone". Again, we live 90 minutes apart so what's to keep this from happening again?"

 

If he feels empty/lonely and that's driving him to the computer to seek whatever it is he's seeking, he needs to look inside himself and deal with his feelings in a grown-up way. Playing these online games is chicken-shit. If he's lonely or bored, he could pick up the phone and talk to you. If wooing other people and getting their sexual attention is the only "fix" for him, maybe he has massive ego issues (or something).

 

Has he expressed to you clearly his level of involvement and commitment with you? In other words, is he as committed to you as you are to him? Sometimes we assume that the guy we care about is, but he might see it differently. If you're not 100% sure where he stands, have that talk to clear the air. If he is committed to you, then you need to make it clear what's acceptable and unacceptable to you in a relationship (one of those being pursuing other women).

 

You have been through a lot of pain due to the loss of your spouse. Have you had any counseling? How are you doing? Has your boyfriend gotten counseling regarding his divorce & history with an alcoholic? Here's what I would do, if he's committed to make your relationship work: counseling.

 

Whatever you choose, I wish you all good things! You seem like such a sweet person.

[Yip 15]

I got to thinking about this some more and there is the possibility of there being some even more darker things going on here than I first thought of. There are a lot of guys that pose as single males on swinger sites that are actually married or otherwise involved men that just simply DO NOT WANT their SOs to swing with them. In other words they want the little wifey to be sitting at home waiting for them while they are out plugging someone else's wife. They are all for screwing someone else's spouse but they don't want their spouse to be touched by anyone else and they don't want their spouse to enjoy the fruits that the lifestyle has to offer. He may just want you to be sitting at home while he is out getting some extra while you are not getting to experience what is out there. I am not saying for sure that is what he is doing but it is a possibility to consider.

 

I guess maybe that's where I was heading when I said he wanted his cake and to eat it too. Although why would his standards be different for me if he actively pursued the LS with his ex?

 

Also, I would like to discuss this sexual addiction thing a little more. I do not believe there is such a thing as sexual addiction, only bad behaviour. An alcoholic is addicted to alcohol, if they do not get alcohol they will have an actual medically significant withdrawl syndrome. They will have hallucinations, seizures, puke and shit and can even die. what happens if a supposed sex addict doesn't get sex? They just get hornier. Hell we are all horny.

 

Yes some people have a tremendously higher sex drive than others but they are not addicted. Anyone that uses the line that they are a sex addict is just want someone to get off their back and not hold them accountable for their actions.

 

Take a look at what a guy has to go through to have with a women and then tell me that he is not in control of his actions. First off a guy has to find a woman that will even speak to him. Then he has to impress her somehow and show her that he is some how "special" to her. Then he has to flirt with her and schmooze and take her out and buy her dinner/drinks and little gifts maybe do some dancing etc etc . Then he has to schmooze her up enough to get her alone somewhere and get her to make out with him. Then he has to get her comfortable enough for some actual petting and eventually foreplay and when her hormones are finally flowing then get her out of her clothes and then out of his clothes and then get her to a point where she will actually accept his dick into her body. Now you tell me what part of all of that appears to be the actions of a man that does not know what he is doing and is not responsible for his actions?

 

If you are thinking, "well these women are all on a swinger site so they are sluts and will spread their legs for anyone, right?..." WRONGO!!!!! I AM talking about what it takes to get a swinger chick into bed. Lets not even talk about what it takes for a traditional woman at this point.

 

My point to all of this is for a man to screw a chick he has to have a rational plan and execute it. It is a behaviour and not an addiction.

 

Tough stuff to read but as I read (and reread) your paragraphs above, it takes me back to the thought that maybe I'm with a player that has just been playing me from the beginning

 

Yip

[Yip 15]

Hi Yip,

 

Regarding this: Me - Express to him that playing "single guy" behind your back (pursuing people online while leaving you out, etc.) is extremely damaging to your relationship.

 

You - As far as the LS goes, as I said before, I'm not against it and might even enjoy it myself. I do now have hesitations of being involved in it with him as I now have these trust issues.

 

I understand that you might actually enjoy the lifestyle. However, timing is everything. Right now, you have a lot of confusion about his motives and what really drives him...rightfully so. When you added the detail that he's pursuing other single women online too (not just couples), that seemed really hurtful to me. This is important: until you are both on solid ground and truly, fully know and understand each other, and until you're being cherished and respected, you're not in a place where swinging is safe or practical for the two of you to enter into. It could possibly do great damage at this point.

 

Well that is certainly great advice and I do believe if I were to enter it to it with him before we were on solid ground that it would do great damage to us.

 

"When he told me it was an addiction, he also said that he "wasn't good at being alone". Again, we live 90 minutes apart so what's to keep this from happening again?"

 

If he feels empty/lonely and that's driving him to the computer to seek whatever it is he's seeking, he needs to look inside himself and deal with his feelings in a grown-up way. Playing these online games is chicken-shit. If he's lonely or bored, he could pick up the phone and talk to you. If wooing other people and getting their sexual attention is the only "fix" for him, maybe he has massive ego issues (or something).

 

When I confronted him, I told him that maybe I'm not enough and that he needs something/someone other than me but he insists that he is done going behind my back and that he will be honest if he doesn't feel that we are working out. As far as the ego issue, I also suggested that maybe he's trying to fill some sort of hole but he insisted it was just old habit.

 

Has he expressed to you clearly his level of involvement and commitment with you? In other words, is he as committed to you as you are to him? Sometimes we assume that the guy we care about is, but he might see it differently. If you're not 100% sure where he stands, have that talk to clear the air. If he is committed to you, then you need to make it clear what's acceptable and unacceptable to you in a relationship (one of those being pursuing other women).

 

From the time he told me about his LS experience, he told me that he needed no one else in his life and that he felt complete. He was tested for HIV, etc and brought me the test results - this was again not something I asked him to do, he did it on his own. He professed his love for me, sent me love letters and love texts. We made plans for trips together, he talked about plans for a year down the road. He held me in his arms when I needed to cry and tell him about the pain of watching my husband slowly die in front of my eyes. He was very anxious to meet my family and when I finally allowed that to happen, it was a hugh move on my part. They know the pain I've been through and I wouldn't allow anyone into my or their lives that I didn't feel was here to stay. He spent the holidays with my family and was by my side when my aunt passed away from cancer last month. Every word he has spoken, every sign he has given me has indicated complete commitment to us and our relationship.

 

Now I look back and think of how easy it was for him to lie to me about being busy with things around his house when he was actually online trying to hook up. I think about how many times over the last 6 weeks that he had to leave my house a day or two earlier than planned because he had so much to take care of at his place - I'm certain now it was either so he could get online and troll or that he already had a meeting set up. As much as it hurts to think of him pursuing other single women, I think the worst of it is the fact that he could lie to me. I just don't understand that and am not sure if I ever will.

 

You have been through a lot of pain due to the loss of your spouse. Have you had any counseling? How are you doing? Has your boyfriend gotten counseling regarding his divorce & history with an alcoholic? Here's what I would do, if he's committed to make your relationship work: counseling.

 

I haven't had any counseling other than my time with Hospice. Up until the time I met him, I was not doing very well. Just kind of walking around in a fog and leaning on my family. He brought about a tremendous change in me - I finally started smiling more than I was crying and saw some brightness in the future. He has seen a counselor in regards to his ex and her alcoholism but isn't seeing one now. He actually got her to see one with him when they were still trying to work things out but she didn't stick with it. I would consider doing counseling with him but thinking through all this I wonder if it's worth it or if I'm just setting myself up for more heartbreak.

 

Whatever you choose, I wish you all good things! You seem like such a sweet person.

 

Thank you for all your kind thoughts and words - I appreciate your insight.

 

Yip

[SCcpl40 74]

Our take. When we first entered into the lifestyle it was after we had been married for 20 years. Our children had gone off to college and we decided to turn our pillow talk into reality. We entered into the lifestyle with an agreement that if either felt it wasn't for them, we would stop, drop out with no regrets.

 

Now 13 years later, all the fantasies have been fulfilled, but what we've gained is a lot of friends we can't give up. We don't always have sex with them and but if the mood is there, we do. Also, social gatherings with vertical people don't hold a candle to the ones with horizontal ones.

 

For the future, we've been talking about looking for a retirement community for lifestyle couples. Sure would beat bingo and we think better all around physical activities. So we're; once in, always will!

[fun4Ds 1,098]

" Now i look back and think of how easy it was for him to lie to me about being busy around his house when he was actually on line trying to hook up"

 

Yip, I feel your suspicions are valid. I guess I took it that you two were living together at this point from being together 24-7.

 

Does he actually meet other couples or singles at this point, or is he just on line getting a thrill of who would be interested?

 

I suppose in our case for my wife and I, we have access to everything on our computer. In fact when I was first researching the lifestyle, that was the beginning of our real openness. I had to agree, my wifes suspicions were valid as well. WE have all access to everything. All passwords, temporary INTERNET files and history.There is nothing I do without my wifes ability to know what i do, and as well its a two way street.Is that possible?

 

Its just me this morning, MR. fun4ds, but my wife will be on soon. I'm sure she will have some insight from her point of view as well.

[Tybee Swing 286]

"From the time he told me about his LS experience, he told me that he needed no one else in his life and that he felt complete."

 

Unfortunately, since he said that, he's been screwing around online, pursuing other people as Mr. Single. I'm so sorry, Yip. I feel that I know what you're experiencing right now (I won't go into detail, but I know). His actions speak louder than words. You want to believe his words, but then what he has done is in direct conflict to that.

 

"I would consider doing counseling with him but thinking through all this I wonder if it's worth it or if I'm just setting myself up for more heartbreak."

 

My suggestion to you is that you seek counseling for yourself. Not only for the past and your loss, but also for what you're experiencing now. This man came into your life when you were at your most vulnerable, when you really needed someone to hold you and make you feel better. He did that for you - but now there are very important issues to sort out. I think that counseling is the best thing you could do for yourself right now.

 

You are really on my mind...I wish and hope all the best for you!