She can't make up her mind

BigirlandHubby · February 23, 2008

Hey all. This may not be an original post, but I need some advice.

My wife is bisexual (very much so, she says she would probably be with women more than men if we were not married). At first the idea of other men was fun for her, but now she has little to no interest in other men due to most of the ones we have been with being unable to perform. We tend to mix with couples because it's impossible to find stable, single females (we have one married female who plays alone with us, but very rarely and it's 100% up to her when she comes over to play, we can't call her up). My wife has had multiple experiences with guys who don't get and/or don't stay hard, and has taken it quite personally (even though she is very attractive). Because of this, she goes back and forth about weather or not she wants to be doing this at all.

Here is the issue. I am willing to stop but I don't like the idea, however, when I have tried to just kill our AFF account, my wife won't do that. However, she also doesn't want me on the web sites looking for women or couples, doesn't want me flirting with women we meet, she doesn't involve me in "hunting" or planning anything, and no I am basically not "allowed" to bring it up, even though I know she is online most days looking. I never know where I stand and it's driving me nuts because I really do love the lifestyle but it's really not fun to be left out.

Do you guys have any advice? I have tried talking with my wife, we have been together 15 years and communicate well, but she always says we have to "Go at her pace" with this. Which her pace is me not really being involved, and that bothers me. Has anyone experienced something like this?

VegasLee · February 23, 2008

It is time to stop and take a break.

You two need to sit down, talk and find something that works for both of you. This is not to be just about one of you. You are a couple, sharing life together and it has to work for both or it won't work for either in the long run.

It takes hard decisions at times but someone has to make them. Sit her down, tell her what you told us and tell her the swinging such as it is with you two is off until you can come up with a plan that works for both of you.

Swinging is not for everyone and what you have is not working so why do it?

TNT · February 23, 2008

It is time to stop and take a break.

You two need to sit down, talk and find something that works for both of you. This is not to be just about one of you. You are a couple, sharing life together and it has to work for both or it won't work for either in the long run.

It takes hard decisions at times but someone has to make them. Sit her down, tell her what you told us and tell her the swinging such as it is with you two is off until you can come up with a plan that works for both of you.

Swinging is not for everyone and what you have is not working so why do it?

I was in the process of replying when I read Lee's post...there's nothing I can add....Lee said it all.

Teresa

LikeMinds321 · February 23, 2008

"She can't make up her mind"

Actually, I think she has.

She wants women, not men, and maybe she's looking on her own because she wants to play alone. Or maybe she's never been happy with your choice of picks; did you used to have all the control over that?

Here is the issue. I am willing to stop but I don't like the idea, however, when I have tried to just kill our AFF account, my wife won't do that. However, she also doesn't want me on the web sites looking for women or couples, doesn't want me flirting with women we meet, she doesn't involve me in "hunting" or planning anything, and no I am basically not "allowed" to bring it up, even though I know she is online most days looking. I never know where I stand and it's driving me nuts because I really do love the lifestyle but it's really not fun to be left out.

For her to have such control over you there must be some threat you're allowing to influence you. Could it be the threat of never being able to swing again?

If either spouse has no say in swinging - and at this point you've got none - you're going nowhere good. You've got to be working on this together.

...we have one married female who plays alone with us, but very rarely and it's 100% up to her when she comes over to play, we can't call her up.

This caught my attention. Why can't you ever call her?

LM

Spoomonkey · February 23, 2008

Apparently, I haven't spread reputation around enough to give the "thumb's up" to VegasLee...

Personally, I think that is his fault. This whole "being right" thing he has going on is a little "over the top"...

So, I am stuck with

Spoomonkey

BigirlandHubby · February 23, 2008

We can't call our female because she is married to a guy who we also play with. So we can call them both over, but never her alone (and her alone is what my wife is in the mood for more often than not). So she decides when she comes over alone because it's on nights when her husband is out and she is looking to play. He knows, and is perfectly fine with it (in fact it was his suggestion the first time), and the four of us are very good friends.

But you are 100% right, what my wife is really looking for is a single female (for us, not just her). The 2 year search is very frustrating for both of us, because we will find someone, talk to her for a week or so, and then she says "so my boyfriend and I want to meet..." or more than once "I just met this great guy and here is a picture of him" (which is inevitably some out of shape guy... I can't stand the couples that fish with a "single female" as bait).. or, we end up not hearing from her after initial mails..etc...

I have absolute veto rights in who we swing with, but there are a ton of rules on me, and none on her. My wife is very picky. The women have to be less attractive than her, but still attractive, we have to be friends first which takes a lot of "dating" which can get frustrating for them. It's a tough situation because she has sort of a warped self-image so many of the couples that are into us, she finds the women "threatening" (including our rare semi-single female) which is tough for me because we do have a lot of attractive couples mail us online and we never write back because they are "too attractive", or the woman is hot and the guy is just not attractive at all (and I have said she should never "take one for the team"). She has major fears of rejection, and the multiple experiences with limp guys have just reinforced those fears. Then we find couples that seem right for us, but some problem comes up (the woman is too hot, the husband looked heavy in one picture, he has some chest hair, etc..), and she wants to blow them off (something I have a problem with too, I feel we at least owe them explanations etc..) or they blow us off the same way and she feels totally rejected.

The whole thing just doesn't feel healthy, but she doesn't want to call it quits (and we have had bad fights because I have basically said "if this is the way it's going to be, the frustration and tease isn't worth it to me, and I want to just stop all-together").

JustAskJulie · February 23, 2008

This isn't a matter of going at "HER PACE". Her pace is to look every day and her doing everything. She doesn't want you involved in this process for some reason and you need to sit down with her and find out what that is.

You were posting at the same time I was....

You are right it's not healthy. There's a serious double standard going on her. It's not about you as a couple, it IS ABOUT HER, or at least she is making it that way.

Why does she want women who are attractive but not more than her? Because she's insecure and worried that she might lose both of her playmates to each other. She has to maintain control because she is insecure in herself. But, she wants what she wants.

two4youinswva · February 23, 2008

The whole thing just doesn't feel healthy, but she doesn't want to call it quits (and we have had bad fights because I have basically said "if this is the way it's going to be, the frustration and tease isn't worth it to me, and I want to just stop all-together").

You're right. It's not healthy.

Swinging is supposed to be fun. This isn't. So yes, you should at least take a break.

fun4Ds · February 24, 2008

Before I add my two cents, I would like to say that I agree with Lee. Its hard not to agree, because he makes sense with few words. I personally admire that. The end results are exactly what he points out and that would work with experienced swingers.

But I have been through finding out things with a bisexual wife are not always 50/50 from beginning to end. Some times talking to my wife, I find out more about her.. by just listening. Its hard sometimes to understand because,

1. I'm not a woman.

2. I'm not bisexual.

So what the fuck would I know about either, or how to get what we both want equally. Its not all (here is how it works sometimes) This has been at times another Maze in life. And yes when it gets confusing I feel like a mouse in a maze. Sometimes our relationship is not all swinger true.

The payoff being the cheese, In this maze of a womans bisexuality. The cheese being getting what we both want. But ya know what, sometimes I feel like... Who Moved The Cheese??

Its how I listen to my wifes needs, and let her have her way sometimes. It may not be 50-50 every swinging experience. In our relationship I (COULDN'T) sit my wife down and explain how according to the swinging lifestyle we both get what we want today. Its how I venture through the maze of the unknown. I certainly wouldn't want to get fat off of the cheese and find myself not enjoying the adventure. I would rather go about the excitement my bisexual wife gives me sharing what I don't always know or understand. I love the knot knowing, the end results, and whats around the next corner.

Welcome to the Swingers Board Bigirlandhubby, and the world of a bisexual wife

Hey all. This may not be an original post, but I need some advice.

My wife is bisexual (very much so, she says she would probably be with women more than men if we were not married). At first the idea of other men was fun for her, but now she has little to no interest in other men due to most of the ones we have been with being unable to perform.
Maybe thats true, but maybe she has more on her mind than you know about... Yet. She may want to explore the feelings she has about herself. Would you want to interfere with that ? Or embrace something that she might want you there for? In her own way.

We tend to mix with couples because it's impossible to find stable, single females (we have one married female who plays alone with us, but very rarely and it's 100% up to her when she comes over to play, we can't call her up). My wife has had multiple experiences with guys who don't get and/or don't stay hard, and has taken it quite personally (even though she is very attractive). Because of this, she goes back and forth about weather or not she wants to be doing this at all.
Ahhh, The cheese has been moved now. Its confusing as hell sometimes, I understand. But the thing is, these are women in your life. Your partner being the most important woman, perhaps in your life. Her feelings are not gone or impossible to find. Ask her how she feels, not what she wants. Listening to the answers is the key. They wont always be the answers you want, but the answers you and her need to deal with.

Here is the issue. I am willing to stop but I don't like the idea, however, when I have tried to just kill our AFF account, my wife won't do that. However, she also doesn't want me on the web sites looking for women or couples, doesn't want me flirting with women we meet, she doesn't involve me in "hunting" or planning anything, and no I am basically not "allowed" to bring it up, even though I know she is online most days looking.
Give her space, and time with her feelings, she has allot of things she may not be able to... Explain. Being on the sidelines as a supporter is not being left out. I would think she knows your there but needs security and your support. Honestly, I let my wife take the date making at one point. I have no regrets.

I never know where I stand and it's driving me nuts because I really do love the lifestyle but it's really not fun to be left out.
STAND BESIDE HER. Or at least just a little behind her.

Do you guys have any advice? I have tried talking with my wife, we have been together 15 years and communicate well, but she always says we have to "Go at her pace" with this. Which her pace is me not really being involved, and that bothers me. Has anyone experienced something like this?
I don't know much, but what I have learned about something I had no clue or good advice about when we began this different road in the lifestyle. I read the advice from bisexual women here on the board.. And listened to my wife. Its good sometimes to have someone show you the things you don't always understand. It takes time and a willing to let the unknown, with someone you are willing to trust, be the enjoyment.

MRSfun · February 24, 2008

Hopefully Mr.fun4ds makes sense to you. He is my husband, my man. His ways of understanding are a little different at times (The cheese and all) But I get what he is saying.Yes, I've watched him support me patiently through a few years in this issue. I didn't know always how he felt. I know he didn't always know how I felt. I hope you understand how your wife feels. That is whats most important. Her feelings.

We can't call our female because she is married to a guy who we also play with. So we can call them both over, but never her alone (and her alone is what my wife is in the mood for more often than not). So she decides when she comes over alone because it's on nights when her husband is out and she is looking to play. He knows, and is perfectly fine with it (in fact it was his suggestion the first time), and the four of us are very good friends.
It sounds like she is being your unicorn. Whats the problem other than the frequency? I had allot of the same feelings. It has to do with me connecting with the woman I would be playing with. That connection is what I wanted to share with my husband. Its not always the show for two males.

But you are 100% right, what my wife is really looking for is a single female (for us, not just her). The 2 year search is very frustrating for both of us, because we will find someone, talk to her for a week or so, and then she says "so my boyfriend and I want to meet..." or more than once "I just met this great guy and here is a picture of him" (which is inevitably some out of shape guy... I can't stand the couples that fish with a "single female" as bait).. or, we end up not hearing from her after initial mails..etc...
Thats what most couples find on the net. We found one female/female bisexual couple and one submissive unicorn in two years searching the net. Thats pretty lucky. We do belong to a group from sls that is strictly for couples with bi females and single bi females only. Have you tried that in your search? And bare in mind these get togethers are some of the best we have encountered BUT.... Its more about us women than the men. If we want to put on a show we do, but we women as a group have much more control of any and all situations. The women there gave me the comfort and connection that I needed at the time.More than anyone els we had been with in the beginning.

I have absolute veto rights in who we swing with, but there are a ton of rules on me, and none on her.

Guess what, When it comes to my bisexual side... ITS MY PUSSY!!!

Does your wife tell you what man you will be playing with at the next get together?

My wife is very picky. The women have to be less attractive than her, but still attractive, we have to be friends first which takes a lot of "dating" which can get frustrating for them. It's a tough situation because she has sort of a warped self-image so many of the couples that are into us, she finds the women "threatening" (including our rare semi-single female) which is tough for me because we do have a lot of attractive couples mail us on line and we never write back because they are "too attractive", or the woman is hot and the guy is just not attractive at all (and I have said she should never "take one for the team"). She has major fears of rejection, and the multiple experiences with limp guys have just reinforced those fears. Then we find couples that seem right for us, but some problem comes up (the woman is too hot, the husband looked heavy in one picture, he has some chest hair, etc..), and she wants to blow them off (something I have a problem with too, I feel we at least owe them explanations etc..) or they blow us off the same way and she feels totally rejected.
I cant say how your wife feels, I don't know her and actually would love to hear her side about now. I could relate to how she feels by the way you are explaining things. Thank you for that. But there again when it comes to playing with anyone, male or female the same rule applies.

Ill pick and choose who I want to play with. ITS MY PUSSY !!!

The whole thing just doesn't feel healthy, but she doesn't want to call it quits (and we have had bad fights because I have basically said "if this is the way it's going to be, the frustration and tease isn't worth it to me, and I want to just stop all-together
")

So now you call it quits because things aren't going as hoped for, and quiting while your mad at each other angry or fighting...... If its one thing we have seen with couples that have come as far as you two have. None have actually walked away and stayed away leaving the lifestyle angry. Usually they make up and come to agreements or Divorce in their anger.

Only One couple we know of walked away so far we can say we know. They were calm and peacefull about it. They are still together.

sexcupid · February 24, 2008

I have absolute veto rights in who we swing with, but there are a ton of rules on me, and none on her.

Guess what, When it comes to my bisexual side... ITS MY PUSSY!!!

MrsFun...agreed it's your pussy and you pick who you play with and are most comfortable with. I think that pretty much everyone here will agree with your statement....just becasue we swing doesn't mean we'll drop trou for any and all.

However, I would like the OP to explain the statement that we have both quoted. The way I am reading that is the wife has placed some sort of restrictions on him during playtime, but she has no rules/restrictions. But, I've been wrong many times before...so if the OP could please clarify and/or give examples.

Also...I like Mrfun's 'cheese' analogy...a company I worked for a few years back used a motivational type of video call, 'Who moved my cheese?'

Tybee Swing · February 24, 2008

I am willing to stop but I don't like the idea, however, when I have tried to just kill our AFF account, my wife won't do that. However, she also doesn't want me on the web sites looking for women or couples, doesn't want me flirting with women we meet, she doesn't involve me in "hunting" or planning anything, and no I am basically not "allowed" to bring it up, even though I know she is online most days looking.

Because she is much pickier and much more slow to move forward with people, perhaps she has felt pushed or rushed when you are flirting with women you meet, hunting, and planning. Or, perhaps when you're hunting, you're presenting people to her that 9 times in 10, she has no interest in. Maybe asking you to stop doing that, while she continues just looking (you only used the word "looking" in what she's doing online) is her pace. As she looks, maybe she's trying to figure things out for herself. Maybe she feels that there's only going to be 1 in 1,000 that will be of interest to her. Sometimes, men can get so anxious and so into the hunt, that it can overwhelm a woman who is slower, and make her feel like he is rushing ahead of her. (I don't know you, but this is just something to consider.)

I think she's so extremely picky about men ("ewww, he had a little hair on his chest" or "he looked a little chunky in one of his pics"), is because she really doesn't want to be with men in swinging. There are some women on one end of the bi spectrum who are only interested in their own man and exploring with other women. Swinging with couples isn't really their thing. When you add the fact that most of the men she's been with haven't been able to keep an erection, that's just another nail in the coffin for her, with going forward with men.

She definitely has self-esteem issues/insecurities with her competitiveness with other women. They have to be just pretty enough, but not prettier than her. The one that will be just cute enough but not threatening to her will be few and far between. Since it's hard enough to find stable, fun, and willing single women in any range of looks, she's pretty much set herself up to find nobody to play with, unless she finds that one-in-a-million. Most people are into this just for fun, and this is casual. If she ever finds that one-in-a-million that makes her feel everything she needs to feel before she can enjoy herself, how will she feel if that person enjoys playing with her/you a couple of times, and then moves on? She will probably take it very personally and be crushed.

Most swingers don't stick around longterm - they're just having fun. Your wife's approach isn't casual, and it isn't fun. She's making so much more out of all of this than it needs to be. If she can learn to relax and understand that it's "just sex", and it's probably temporary, she might be a little more flexible and open-minded about her choices. Unless...swinging isn't for her?

Maybe what she's really looking for is a girlfriend, someone who will stay in her life. I wonder if she's more into polyamory than she is in swinging. It would explain why her approach isn't so casual, and she seems to be looking for that rare, exceptional person before she can be comfortable. Maybe this is something that you can bring up to her in conversation. Talk to her with no anger at all, and have a real conversation about what she wants and needs.

You're angry and frustrated and feeling left out of the hunt. To get into your wife's head, put all of that aside while you talk this through. She may be more confused about what she's looking for than you are. But, maybe you two can figure it out together. After you both figure it out, then you'll have to see if you can find some common ground that you're both comfortable with.

fun4Ds · February 24, 2008

Also...I like Mrfun's 'cheese' analogy...a company I worked for a few years back used a motivational type of video call, 'Who moved my cheese?'

My grandmother gave me the original book years ago. She was very inspirational and missed dearly. I didn't know about a video.

We hope bigirlandhubby stay with us. Like Tybee said there are many thoughts and sometimes even confusions sometimes we encounter in the lifestyle. Its the choices we make in our paths that helps us understand one another. I for one have learned that how my wife feels is just as, if not more important, than the questions at hand. Listening and understanding her feelings usually answer the why's for me personally.

sweet_tna · February 25, 2008

We can't call our female because she is married to a guy who we also play with. So we can call them both over, but never her alone (and her alone is what my wife is in the mood for more often than not). So she decides when she comes over alone because it's on nights when her husband is out and she is looking to play. He knows, and is perfectly fine with it (in fact it was his suggestion the first time), and the four of us are very good friends.

But you are 100% right, what my wife is really looking for is a single female (for us, not just her). The 2 year search is very frustrating for both of us, because we will find someone, talk to her for a week or so, and then she says "so my boyfriend and I want to meet..." or more than once "I just met this great guy and here is a picture of him" (which is inevitably some out of shape guy... I can't stand the couples that fish with a "single female" as bait).. or, we end up not hearing from her after initial mails..etc...

I have absolute veto rights in who we swing with, but there are a ton of rules on me, and none on her. My wife is very picky. The women have to be less attractive than her, but still attractive, we have to be friends first which takes a lot of "dating" which can get frustrating for them. It's a tough situation because she has sort of a warped self-image so many of the couples that are into us, she finds the women "threatening" (including our rare semi-single female) which is tough for me because we do have a lot of attractive couples mail us online and we never write back because they are "too attractive", or the woman is hot and the guy is just not attractive at all (and I have said she should never "take one for the team"). She has major fears of rejection, and the multiple experiences with limp guys have just reinforced those fears. Then we find couples that seem right for us, but some problem comes up (the woman is too hot, the husband looked heavy in one picture, he has some chest hair, etc..), and she wants to blow them off (something I have a problem with too, I feel we at least owe them explanations etc..) or they blow us off the same way and she feels totally rejected.

The whole thing just doesn't feel healthy, but she doesn't want to call it quits (and we have had bad fights because I have basically said "if this is the way it's going to be, the frustration and tease isn't worth it to me, and I want to just stop all-together").

Allow me to offer a slightly different perspective here. I'm in the process of exploring my bi side, which means I may potentially be playing with both members of whatever couple we're meeting/looking for. For that reason, my level of attraction is going to carry slightly more weight than Mr. Sweet's. And generally, if I don't find the woman attractive, he doesn't either.

Mr. Sweet is happy to sit back and let me lead the way regarding who we play with or don't. This is not to say he has no say at all, though. If there's someone he's particularly interested in, I'll certainly give them consideration.

I'm relieved to hear that things with your female friend and her husband are all out in the open. If the frequency of activity is what bothers you and/or your wife, then I'd be on the lookout for someone else, too.

Which then brings us to the point of where your wife is doing all this searching, and leaving you out. Have you even tried going to clubs, parties, or meet and greets? This is a great way to get to know other couples and singles with a little less frustration on everyone's part. You get time to talk to each other, flirt, and maybe even play a bit if all are so inclined. If you decide you're not hitting it off, you have the option of moving on to someone else right away.

All that said, I do feel your wife's self consciosness issues need to be addressed. It's causing everyone a lot of frustration, and if neither of you is enjoying it, it's not worth doing. So talk to her. Let her know how you're feeling, and remind her that if you're going by the pace of the slowest runner and you want to STOP or at least take a break, then that's the pace you both should adhere to.

Best of luck to ya'll,

=)

BigirlandHubby · February 25, 2008

Hello everyone

I am the "bi girl" in the duo "bi girl and hubby". I greatly appreciate all of your input. Hubby got on here in a genuinely sweet way to try to sort things out. I appreciate him looking for advice on a topic that we are still discovering and learning about.

I wanted to clarify a few things. Hubby is comfortable with anything & everything... he has not a jealous bone in his body... so when he mentioned our "rules"... it may have sounded more strict than it is (at least in my eyes). I do feel that he has been overly eager in this process and when he sees people he finds attractive (especially if the woman is attractive & we both agree... but the guy is ho-hum) then he will, dare I say "push", in a loving but still eager way to "just meet"... but I have a problem meeting with the expectation of what we are all in this for (SEX) and then rejecting people when they are fun & fantastic... but I still don't find the guy attractive. I have an easier time being picky on line than to someones face. I loved the "IT'S MY PUSSY"... and that is my new motto. Hubby has never ever ever forced me to do anything.... he is the most amazing guy in the entire world... we have been together for 15+ years (high school sweethearts) and we are both in our early 30's.

For me, I have self-esteem issues. The Tybee Swing... do you know me? LOL... you hit the nail on the head and I was reading out loud to Hubby after he showed me what he'd found in this board and some of the responses that he'd found... I read your response :

Because she is much pickier and much more slow to move forward with people, perhaps she has felt pushed or rushed when you are flirting with women you meet, hunting, and planning. Or, perhaps when you're hunting, you're presenting people to her that 9 times in 10, she has no interest in. Maybe asking you to stop doing that, while she continues just looking (you only used the word "looking" in what she's doing online) is her pace. As she looks, maybe she's trying to figure things out for herself. Maybe she feels that there's only going to be 1 in 1,000 that will be of interest to her. Sometimes, men can get so anxious and so into the hunt, that it can overwhelm a woman who is slower, and make her feel like he is rushing ahead of her. (I don't know you, but this is just something to consider.)

I think she's so extremely picky about men ("ewww, he had a little hair on his chest" or "he looked a little chunky in one of his pics"), is because she really doesn't want to be with men in swinging. There are some women on one end of the bi spectrum who are only interested in their own man and exploring with other women. Swinging with couples isn't really their thing. When you add the fact that most of the men she's been with haven't been able to keep an erection, that's just another nail in the coffin for her, with going forward with men.

She definitely has self-esteem issues/insecurities with her competitiveness with other women.

That is so true... and I agree that I am overly picky... but it goes back to the "it's my pussy" thing... and also... I don't want to be in a situation where I feel trumped... some porn star looking woman for my hubby to fuck... I know it isn't about comparison, but in my eyes I would be comparing and wishing I physically looked like her... like girls who look at magazines in an unhealthy way and want to be thin. I am not a "fat" girl... I am shapely and curvy and love my body (most of the time ) but it is like this for me... I want to bring a copy of myself into bed with us. The female we have been with (her husband allows her to play alone and we've done that one time) is great physically... I feel like we are physically very similar.

I wanted to speak up on this board and get into the discussion because I am guessing that lots of you can help me and give me great advice out there. I have so many different "issues"... things that I have sorted through and as I am finding myself in this journey and realizing that I am hot and attractive, lots of my fears are going away (so, can you say "abandoned by my father at as a young child - physically abused by him when I was young - found the love of my life at an early age and worry that he'll be less attracted to me if he fucks some hot ass woman, my father left, why wouldn't my husband - mind you, my husband is NOTHING like my father but a father is supposed to stay with you through your life and be there for you... abandonment is a big issue with me - worrying about suffering in comparison... blah blah blah - parents can really mess with your head even after they are out of your life!)

So, to start off somewhat slow, I can let you know that the "rules" we have set up regarding our "playing" don't have to really do with during playtime - we stay within arms reach of each other (past experience of some man taking me out of arms reach - our first experience ever was a big mistake and got us started off on the wrong foot - and while Hubby was fucking his wife, the guy was limper than a noodle and kissing me like we were 13 - EWWWW). So, we also try to wait to make sure that the "other guy" is going to be able to perform before Hubby "gives it to" the other woman. Ideal situation for me is to have just a single person in bed with us - male or female - those have been my favorite experiences and we have had both. It is more about us playing with ONE person rather than us going off with the person we are "expected" to swap with. I am not really into the guys either... the single male we were with was super attractive and a friend of Hubby's and that was a bit different... but for me it is about my bi-side... I have an amazing cock (and even better Hubby attached to it - LOL )... to play with whenever and wherever I want to... so that is not lacking in my life. We have an amazing sex life. But, usually to find a woman who is willing to play, I have to "take one for the team" with her hubby... and it isn't that I think he's gross because I won't go there if he is... but it is like I see Hubby playing with MY TOY... ... that being the woman... and Hubby. I want to be in that game... not off with some guy who I could give a shit about fucking.

I know some have said we should not be swinging... and on some days, I could not agree more. But, I think back to the experiences of our MMF, and the one time we had our FFM... and there was 1 or 2 couple experiences in there that were "good"... and I think that it is FUN and can be FUN... but I always feel like it is taking up too much of our time... our conversations seem to revolve around that topic and I refuse to let swinging define us... we are so much more than swinging... we are high school sweethearts, we have 2 amazing kids, we are more in love everyday we are together, we are best friends, we know each other inside & out... but we are also opposites in a lot of ways and so this is something we have in common to "do" together... and so when Hubby brings it up, I tend to think "Oh, that is all he thinks about is fucking other women"... but in all honesty, I have gotten past that way of thinking quite a bit lately... but it tends to be a sore spot for me. I just want it to be like a hobby, something we do occasionally, not something that we argue about because Bi-girl isn't meeting the desired frequency or meeting up with anyone this month... we have to go at my pace or not at all... and if that means we stop for a while, then we do that so I can take a breath... but ultimately, I start up again.

I loved the cheese analogy too... and I have to say that sometimes to hide the cheese really well... I eat it! LOL!!! It is GONE!!! Yes, it is a maze and unfair for him to have to "figure me out"... but if he can just be patient and let me drive and not side seat drive and piss me off, I know I can make this fun and I know we can do this together.

I look forward to any & all advice you have regarding what you think and I am excited about being on this forum.

Bi-girl (Hubby is at work)

VegasLee · February 25, 2008

Bi-Girl,

The more I see the two of you post the more I stand by my post to your husband. You two really need to take a break.

There are many, many issues that you and him have to deal with before I would ever think of bringing other people into your relationship.

Yes, you have the pussy but this is not all about you. You two are a couple, it is about both of you. Not one or the other "doing the driving" but in sharing the ride together.

You brought up a lot of personal issues that really need to be dealt with also before thinking about swinging. You are still looking in the past about your father, worrying about your husband "fucking" some hottie. Why does he have to "fuck" the dogs while you have the hotties to make you feel better? That is about you, not about the "US" you should be thinking about.

This is about being and treating each other as equals in all ways. About him or you being able to say anything to each other without one of you getting nuts on the other. About sharing experiences that you both can live with and enjoy and knowing that when it is over you are both happy and still together.

I just see you both have way to many issues at this point in your life. I would stop and deal with those before I took another step in this Lifestyle. It is not going to be fixed this weekend over lunch, you two have a lot to deal with in your life.

Good luck to you.

BigirlandHubby · February 26, 2008

I never said he had to "fuck the dogs"... as I would not be interested in "dogs" either. Yes, I agree that I have issues, but everyone does about one thing or another. And, just because we are trying to figure this out and ask for advice does not mean that we are not "US" in this... it is NOT all about me, and I never said that it was. The one that needs help in figuring things out is me... yes, but it is NOT all about me. The reason I want to do this is to experience something electric & totally different WITH Hubby. I have said that his comfort zone is much wider than mine and to make it work for US, we need to compromise and come to agreements, like any normal & functioning couple would.

When Hubby "does the driving" he is overly eager and wants to be out there meeting & swinging with every couple he finds attractive. I want a more "normal" life than that. That is not my comfort zone, and I would like to have a different (lower) volume than he would. I do not want this to occupy so much of my life... raising 2 kids, family, obligations, blah blah blah... again, about compromise, NOT about ME and only ME.

We do, and always have, treated each other as equals... and just because we don't see 100% eye to eye on this issue and have to work on it and come to compromises or find a comfort zone does not mean that I am somehow not treating him as an equal, or vice versa. Life is about compromise, especially when you are married. No one person always gets their way... leaving the other in the dust to figure it out... and this is why I think our marriage is one of the strongest I have ever witnessed. Just because swinging and "the lifestyle" (I, personally, can't stand that word because) doesn't come easy as pie to us and we actually have to think about it and work through feelings does not reflect badly on either of us, as a matter of fact, I think it says more positive things about us as a couple - that we would give each other such consideration and want to have each other feel comfortable. I think it says more good than bad...

I think we got off on the wrong foot in swinging with a bad experience and from that we learned a lot. I DO know that in the end of the night, he is my partner & I am his partner... and that he will be next to me, holding my hand through life until we are old & gray. It is not about doubt of him or our relationship.

I appreciate your perspective and frankly, there are days where I think you are right, if I am being honest. I hate arguing over other people's involvement in our life & relationship. On those days, I am ready to hang up and just move forward without all this stuff. I think as Hubby understands me more and expresses his emotions/thoughts more clearly to me, those feelings are less... but when he starts with the "I worry you are going to take it away" (meaning I won't want to swing anymore)... I get so angry. What am I "taking away"? He still has me!

Thanks again for your input.

fun4Ds · February 26, 2008

Bi Girl, I want to thank you for stepping up and speaking. That takes allot sometimes, and I would like to just read, and in my own way, listen to what you have said. I don't think I could add anything yet because Mrs.fun isn't here at the moment. Personally your thoughts deserve more than a quick response, some things you mentioned are serious issues. About your child hood/father issues I can relate to that part, mine were bad also and hey, even though I'm a guy, sometimes those things do carry on into our lives. We find ways to deal and cope with them also.

As friends here, If you don't mind me calling you guys friends. I would like to hear what my wife says and then we could offer any advice. For now I don't think I have any, It takes a little understanding on my part to let soak in what you have said. It seems you do understand each other. I think you have been a great partner with a level headed mind. If you feel going slower at your pace and even taking a break to understand what has happened so far. I say hell yes, you can do that. Its always good to sort things out first.

I'm pretty sure hubby will understand this situation. But we are guys, we learn as we go also. Everything will happen in its own time. Even if it feels like something that seems so great is about to slip away, its best to enjoy the great things that we have now.

ncmd_couple · February 26, 2008

BiGirl,

Hell babe, we all make mistakes, then learn from them. We have had a couple of bad experiences in swinging ourselves and we learned from them. We didn't have a friggin' clue what we were getting into. We just packed an overnight bag and headed to a local club. Fortunately we picked a great club and it worked out ok. Life is a journey, so is swinging. My lovely lady has self esteem issues as well, I think most if not all women do. It is a sin of our society, but it is what it is, unfortunately.

We all have skeletons in our past, but as long as you know they are there and present them to your hubby then you can work through them. Your father leaving your mom probably wasn’t just about him meeting some hottie, it was probably a lot more complicated than that. But you know more than I do about the situation. I was sexually molested as a child. Does it effect who I am? Yes, but I choose to not let something that happened over 40 years ago drive who I am. I am also adopted, and yes, that effects who I am as well. But all of those things, as well as 50 years of life, put together make me a unique individual. All of those things, good and bad, are who I am. And I decided some years ago that I am happy with who I am as a man. You just need to do that as a woman. You aren’t perfect, (what ever the hell that is) and your hubby still loves you and has been with you all of these years, be proud of who you are!!! I have raised my kids and I tried to make their young lives as safe as I could so that what happened to me, didn’t happen to them. It isn’t the past event, it is how you address it in your life today. And your hubby knowing what your past issues will allow him to prove to you that those issues are not issues that you two have together.

No relationship is perfect. It can’t be, none of us are perfect. So perfection is not expected from my point of view. My lady has her issues, and I accept them and live my life as a demonstration to her that I do understand. Or at least I try to. I guess I have done ok because she agreed to marry me toward the end of April. The hardest part is for you two to communicate openly and honestly. If your coming here has helped each of you understand where each other are coming from, then that is a good thing. I find that writing to each other helps. When you are in a conversation, that conversation is a convoluted thing that sometimes doesn’t allow you to communicate a specific point clearly. Words on a screen do not convey emotion well sometimes. There is no "body language" and emoticons just don't always make up for it. But sometimes, the written word prevents the message from being confused when a kid comes running in with something else.

None of us in a relationship are in exactly the same place on all issues, and those change constantly as we get in sync or slip away on an issue in our lives. But communication is the key, how ever you two accomplish it.

Should the two of you be swinging? I don’t know, that is up to the two of you two to decide together. My rule is that if my lady isn’t happy, then no one is happy. That doesn’t mean that I don’t say “no” when I need to. It works pretty well for us. There are people that we don’t play with because she doesn’t want us to. That is all I need to know, but fortunately she also tells me why. We respect that from both of us. But we continue to meet people and go to the clubs. Our view is that if we don’t swing with anyone, we still have a sexy fun time with each other and if by chance we meet a couple that we both click with, then great. You guys are out of sync on some things at the moment. That doesn’t mean that you should abandon all because of it. Just work together to improve your relationship and it will happen.

Good luck to both of you!!!!

S

Tybee Swing · February 26, 2008

Hi BiGirl, and welcome!

I have so many different "issues"... things that I have sorted through and as I am finding myself in this journey and realizing that I am hot and attractive, lots of my fears are going away (so, can you say "abandoned by my father at as a young child - physically abused by him when I was young - found the love of my life at an early age and worry that he'll be less attracted to me if he fucks some hot ass woman, my father left, why wouldn't my husband - mind you, my husband is NOTHING like my father but a father is supposed to stay with you through your life and be there for you... abandonment is a big issue with me - worrying about suffering in comparison... blah blah blah - parents can really mess with your head even after they are out of your life!)

Have you ever thought about counseling for yourself to resolve the feelings & insecurities that are left over from your past? This isn't about swinging, it's about gaining your own sense of self-esteem and worth, and putting the past to rest, for your own peace of mind. It could help you in so many ways in life, and in your marriage, if you can resolve the past.

Ideal situation for me is to have just a single person in bed with us - male or female - those have been my favorite experiences and we have had both. It is more about us playing with ONE person rather than us going off with the person we are "expected" to swap with. I am not really into the guys either... the single male we were with was super attractive and a friend of Hubby's and that was a bit different... but for me it is about my bi-side... I have an amazing cock (and even better Hubby attached to it - LOL )... to play with whenever and wherever I want to... so that is not lacking in my life.

You are not unusual in the lifestyle; there are other couples like you. Is your hubby in agreement that it would be fine to meet with select single males, single women, and couples who only want to let the ladies play with each other, and then switch back to their own husbands? If you're both in agreement on this, just change your profile and find the people who fit what you're looking for. There's no rule that you have to full-swap with other men to have fun! If it's not for you, it's just not.

But, usually to find a woman who is willing to play, I have to "take one for the team" with her hubby... and it isn't that I think he's gross because I won't go there if he is... but it is like I see Hubby playing with MY TOY... ... that being the woman... and Hubby. I want to be in that game... not off with some guy who I could give a shit about fucking.

It's possible that this is why so many of them have been limp for you. They may have picked up on how you were feeling. It's best for both you and these other guys to not get into it if you really don't want to be with them, and you're much more interested in the other woman and your husband.

but I always feel like it is taking up too much of our time... our conversations seem to revolve around that topic and I refuse to let swinging define us... we are so much more than swinging...
... and so when Hubby brings it up, I tend to think "Oh, that is all he thinks about is fucking other women"... but in all honesty, I have gotten past that way of thinking quite a bit lately... but it tends to be a sore spot for me. I just want it to be like a hobby, something we do occasionally, not something that we argue about because Bi-girl isn't meeting the desired frequency or meeting up with anyone this month... we have to go at my pace or not at all... and if that means we stop for a while, then we do that so I can take a breath... but ultimately, I start up again.

This is just a matter of agreeing on your frequency/pace as a couple. What would be the ideal frequency for you? What's the ideal frequency for your husband? It's pretty simple; all you have to do is agree on something you're both happy with. The more you talk about all of this, the more you'll both get out of it. He won't get frustrated waiting/wondering if it's going to happen again, and you won't have to feel pushed all the time, because he'll understand and pace himself.

BigirlandHubby · February 26, 2008

Hi BiGirl, and welcome!

You are not unusual in the lifestyle; there are other couples like you. Is your hubby in agreement that it would be fine to meet with select single males, single women, and couples who only want to let the ladies play with each other, and then switch back to their own husbands? If you're both in agreement on this, just change your profile and find the people who fit what you're looking for. There's no rule that you have to full-swap with other men to have fun! If it's not for you, it's just not.

Hubby has not really thought of the soft swap as "worth it"... not to be negative on him, because I love him terribly but when we had a discussion recently about being soft swap, it was very apparent that the entire thing isn't "worth it" to him if we are soft swap. I didn't quite know what to do with that... I know for him, he wants to experience another woman WITH me, so I can see why he'd want to have sex with her... but that means that I am somehow "obligated" or "expected" to have sex with the male, and that isn't always my flavor. I am comfortable having sex with Hubby, obviously, and we had one single male that I was happy to have sex with also... I was attracted to him physically & on a friend level... but that seems rare to me. What are your thoughts on that?

It's possible that this is why so many of them have been limp for you. They may have picked up on how you were feeling. It's best for both you and these other guys to not get into it if you really don't want to be with them, and you're much more interested in the other woman and your husband.

I agree with this... and my worry is also when Hubby splits off with the woman and I am left with the man, and I will try to look and see what is going on with Hubby... and he is always all hot & heavy fucking or getting close and I am doing NOTHING. I have had one man tell me that he could "sense" that I was distracted or "not there"... and he's right. Our swinging with couples started off with an experience where Hubby was fucking a woman in our hot tub and her husband was "making out" with me and going no where with a limp cock. I was angry with Hubby for what felt like him going off to the other side and fucking her... that image will, unfortunantly, be burned in my brain forever. I think we have had good experiences too, but we have learned that we need "rules"... like staying within arms reach of each other, that he doesn't fuck the woman until I am "getting some" cuz he's always ready to go and often (probably because of me) the guy is NOT ready... maybe these rules are unfair but our experiences have led us to this and after LOTS of LONG discussions we have to find a way to make this work for both of us.

This is just a matter of agreeing on your frequency/pace as a couple. What would be the ideal frequency for you? What's the ideal frequency for your husband? It's pretty simple; all you have to do is agree on something you're both happy with. The more you talk about all of this, the more you'll both get out of it. He won't get frustrated waiting/wondering if it's going to happen again, and you won't have to feel pushed all the time, because he'll understand and pace himself.

The frequency thing is something we have discussed... I guess I feel like my turtle pace of things and not wanting to allow this swing to be WHO we are has made it so that a while ago, even Hubby bringing it up would upset me... my thoughts were "why does he care?"... "why am I not enough for him?"... "why is he just thinking about fucking other people?" and so I would get lost in that spiral. Those feelings creep up sometimes, but I feel like since I am "driving", I can control my feelings better because he is leaving it to me. Ultimately, I am the one having sex with EVERYONE... I am the one that "goes both ways" in this, so since I have the most interaction with everyone, I feel it should be me who gets to choose, also because I have the "attraction issue" (or lack of) with the man... and for Hubby, he wants to meet everyone (a slight exaggeration ). I mentioned to him about a woman who's profile said that she can sometimes orgasm just with nipple play (I am super orgasmic, but not that good!) and his eyes lit up and I told him that the hubby was not attractive (I have to be able to picture myself kissing the man - happily - I don't know why) and he laughed and said "I know what my response would have been if I'd been 'driving'... I'd have said 'it couldn't hurt to meet them'"... we both laughed.

I want to thank ncmd_couple for the comment below: (I can't quite figure out all the ways to set up the "quote" part on this board )...

And I decided some years ago that I am happy with who I am as a man. You just need to do that as a woman. You aren’t perfect, (what ever the hell that is) and your hubby still loves you and has been with you all of these years, be proud of who you are!

I find that like the wind blows, so does my ability to be happy with who I am and be comfortable in my own skin... it is never consistant and one never knows which "bi-girl" they will get on any given day ... "confident bi-girl"... "crazy bi-girl"... "unhappy & worried bi-girl"... this list is LONG . I think the swing stuff has at times made my feelings about myself worse, the self doubt and questioning my place / my standing / the why's... I have issues with being "good enough"... and I narrowed that down to the fact that when my father left for his girlfriend, he started over... we weren't "good enough" and so he went and had like 5 fucking kids with this other woman, leaving my mom to have to fight for child support and he never visited us, he just LEFT. He was an ass hole abuser and I was better off having him gone, but still, as a kid you learn and realize you have been abandoned or that you weren't "good enough" and so I relate that to things with Hubby... we have the most amazing life... Hubby has a new motorcycle, great house, '08 corvette, 2 great kids, hot wife... and we are an amazingly happy couple... and I know the reason I have been given for swinging is because "it's fun"... but why am I not enough? Hubby tells me that no one ever has "enough"... that is an unattainable word... ok, fine. But, we are married and in the times when we have talked about not swinging anymore he will say things like "I will just have to go back to being an indoor cat"... as if it is a BAD thing to JUST be with me! OOOOO... it pisses me OFF!!! It pisses me off that it is so important to him... if it's a hobby or just "something we do"... the who the fuck cares? I think that is my worst & most frustrating part of all of this. That by NOT doing it ... I am in turn "doing" something TO him. This is not about HIM exploring his BI side... it is about me exploring MY bi side... still, no matter what, he gets to fuck a pussy at night, and if it is only mine, why is that BAD or "not enough"... (my words, not his). He's said some pretty shitty things when we have had our discussions about not swinging... and I realize they are out of frustration & anger... I know he would never cheat on me... I know that for sure... but he's said stuff like "swinging helps me to not cheat on you"... the desire to fuck every hot piece of tail is there for him, but he doesn't act upon it (like every man, I suspect and I appreciate that he doesn't and wouldn't cheat cuz I'd be GONE... no looking back!) OK, now what do I do with that?

OK, I am going to stop writing now because I am getting overly emotional and I just need to chill. I hate thinking about this stuff and I know it is good to talk it out (trust me, Hubby & I have talked until our faces turn blue about this and I am just so over droning on the details of how we see eye-to-eye in all aspects of our life except this... it gets more attention than it deserves... and I feel like we get lost in the abyss of "swinging" and it makes me angry).

Thanks again to all who are posting... I look forward to your input.

Bi-girl

BigirlandHubby · February 26, 2008

I wanted to state one more thing and that is that Hubby is an incredible person and the "negative" things are few & far between on the swing issue... we are not all "drama" and fighting... we are figuring this out like any normal couple with their baggage does. I feel guilty for not being more secure with myself and for making any issues... but he continues to love me & support me... he has found a wonderful new understanding recently and is so supportive and letting me just be me, like he always has, but understanding that I have this desire to have more control over our swing life, and I appreciate him so much for that.

I just didn't want anyone to get the idea that Hubby is some horrible person for being frustrated & angry when I "move the cheese" yet again on him. He handles himself with great dignity & love for me... and I doubt anyone else out there would do the same for me. He is simply FANTASTIC.

Tybee Swing · February 27, 2008

Hubby has not really thought of the soft swap as "worth it"...
... I know for him, he wants to experience another woman WITH me, so I can see why he'd want to have sex with her... but that means that I am somehow "obligated" or "expected" to have sex with the male, and that isn't always my flavor.

If soft swap isn't satisfying, you could stick with the one single male friend, that one married lady who plays separately from her husband sometimes, and look for more single females. Just do whatever actually works for you both, the swing situations you can both enjoy and agree on.

Earlier in this thread, somebody asked if you have tried clubs instead of just profiles online. If you have clubs available where you are, your odds for success are a lot higher there. If there's nobody that night you'd want to play with, you can have sex with each other in a very sexually-charged environment, which can be very hot and a lot of fun.

I think the swing stuff has at times made my feelings about myself worse, the self doubt and questioning my place / my standing / the why's... I have issues with being "good enough"... and I narrowed that down to the fact that when my father left for his girlfriend, he started over... we weren't "good enough" and so he went and had like 5 fucking kids with this other woman, leaving my mom to have to fight for child support and he never visited us, he just LEFT. He was an ass hole abuser and I was better off having him gone, but still, as a kid you learn and realize you have been abandoned or that you weren't "good enough" and so I relate that to things with Hubby...

I can see why the way you were left as a child has really hurt you. It's great that you are so self-aware that you can recognize how it hurt you, and how it affects your reactions to your hubby. The next step is learning how to move on from the past, resolve pain, gain your self-worth, and begin to not associate what your did did with your hubby. Any thoughts on going to counseling?

Hubby tells me that no one ever has "enough"... that is an unattainable word... ok, fine. But, we are married and in the times when we have talked about not swinging anymore he will say things like "I will just have to go back to being an indoor cat"... as if it is a BAD thing to JUST be with me! OOOOO... it pisses me OFF!!! It pisses me off that it is so important to him... if it's a hobby or just "something we do"... the who the fuck cares? I think that is my worst & most frustrating part of all of this.
... He's said some pretty shitty things when we have had our discussions about not swinging... and I realize they are out of frustration & anger... I know he would never cheat on me... I know that for sure... but he's said stuff like "swinging helps me to not cheat on you"... the desire to fuck every hot piece of tail is there for him, but he doesn't act upon it (like every man, I suspect and I appreciate that he doesn't and wouldn't cheat cuz I'd be GONE... no looking back!) OK, now what do I do with that?

The remark about going back to being an indoor cat (as in, not allowed to prowl)...that's pouting. It would piss me off, too. The remark, "swinging helps me to not cheat on you" would be very disturbing to me if it came from my husband. I'll explain.

Before Mr. Tybee and I got started with all of this and were talking it through, some of the questions we thought of were, "What happens if one of us isn't really into this after we try it? What if one of us wants to stop at some point? Can we change our mind?" (I'm the one that brought up swinging in the first place.) We made a deal that if either of us didn't want to go into a swing situation at a particular time, or wanted to stop for a certain period of time, or even stop forever, there would be no pouting, no anger, no holding it over the other's head. The deal is, "if it's not good for both of us, it's not for either of us". We made a deal that above all else, we are #1, then family/jobs/life, and all the rest is in a distant third place (at best). Neither one of us can possibly enjoy this lifestyle unless the other is fully enjoying it, too. Neither of us would be the least bit comfortable pursuing this if the other wasn't 100% on board and happy with it. THIS is what made us feel comfortable going forward, knowing that no matter what was to come, we'd both have each other's backs 100% (no nagging, whining, guilt trips, etc.) We would just move forward with our lives, and we'd be able to say we tried it, at least. Sex between us is GREAT, and swinging is just occasional stimulation to enhance our relationship, much like watching porn together occasionally, or anything else we might add for a little spice. Bottom line: we don't "need" swinging. There are many, many threads & posts just like this on this board - many other couples here feel the same way about it.

On the comment, "swinging helps me to not cheat on you" - We've talked a lot on this board about this way of thinking, too. The very common consensus here is that swinging is not some sort of alternative to cheating. In our whole lives, my hubby and I have never cheated on anybody; we just don't have it in us. If we stopped swinging for whatever reason, it wouldn't occur to us that we "need" outside sex, so we might cheat if not for swinging scratching that itch (which is what the comment implies). For us, the real turn-on is sharing this experience together. It's not so much about getting with different people as it is the stimulation that we get from sharing the swinging experience with each other. A lot of couples (us included) are so turned-on seeing each other swing, that the heat goes on for weeks afterward. Most couples go home and fuck each other's brains out after being with others, and it's because of the intense experience we just shared. It makes us more turned-on to each other. Again, not about the other pussy/dick.

You'll read this a lot here, too: Swinging and cheating have nothing in common; they are polar opposites. Swinging involves opening up completely with your spouse and sharing fantasies on a level that others just dream about. It can bring you very close, because swinging is 100% honest and open. On the other hand, cheating is about sneaking around, dishonesty, and it's about the person you're cheating with (not your spouse). I don't believe that swinging scratches the cheating "itch", because they're not even in the same league.

I hope that you and your hubby read this together and discuss this. Share with him how those comments make you feel. You're not the only one who wouldn't feel good about those types of comments, but it's probably even harder on you because of your background and your struggle with not feeling like "enough".

Hugs!!!

BigirlandHubby · February 27, 2008

Hi... Hubby here, I just want to say that I never said swinging "Scratches the itch" to cheat. I have rejected the trophy wife of a rock star, I think I can say without a doubt that I would never want to cheat on my wife.

A brief history of Hubby's past. My father ran off with a hot 20 year old french lady when I was 4 years old. My father cheated on my mother 6 times (that she knew about), and it destroyed her and our family. I would never do that to my wife. I have told her many times that I am not interested in Polyamory, if she offered for me to be able to see other women I would not do it. This is about US not about me, not about getting rocks off alone (that's why we don't like the separate side of the room full swap, neither of us like that). I genuinely love to watch her with women, and with other men, it's a huge turn on. The comment my wife posted above, I do feel was taken a bit out of context. We were talking about weather or not I ever "think" about other women. I said basically every day I look at a pretty woman I would enjoy sex with if I wasn't committed to her. However the swinging thing is a BIT like having your cake and eating it too, because I don't think physical monogamy is natural for men.. I DO feel very strongly that emotional monogamy IS VERY natural. I am a very committed husband and father, my wife's happiness is everything to me. I enjoy sex with other women, but only when my wife is a part of it, and enjoying it.

The "house cat" comment was not about being on the prowl, it was simply my way of saying I am willing to return to physical monogamy as well as emotional, it wasn't intended the way she took it (at the time, as well as today when she still takes it the way she sounded on here). It simply meant that I am willing to "belong" to her body and soul is she asks. The swing thing is something we have both said, could end, and we would still be as committed to each other as ever.

Anyway, I agree with a lot of what you guys have said on here, you have really helped me to see that I am not left out, that I can sit in the passenger seat and be there with my wife. It has also help her to verbalize things in a way she hasn't before (like having a hard time saying NO to me when I suggest couples she isn't in to). The moving cheese is a fantastic analogy, but you know... I can have fun just being in the maze, who needs the cheese when the maze with my wife is so entertaining!

We have dumped a lot on this board, and I do want you guys to know that we have an amazing life together we ARE that happy kissy couple that everyone else is annoyed by because we are so "cute". Even without swinging my life is pretty sweet (the wife, the kids, the pool/hot tub, the house, the 08 vette, the 07 GSX-R, the dream job in animation). We grew up together, we have been together more than half my life, and are very secure as a couple. Neither one of us is pushing the other in this lifestyle it's something we both want (most of the time), and it is about US, together. Neither of us would run off alone with other people.

Thanks for all your insights! We really wish a couple of you were closer to Orlando, haha

fun4Ds · February 27, 2008

Its great that you guys talk about many things. Sure, in the swinging lifestyle just as in life, there are issues sometimes. We have had them to some degree. If pointing out some things here is a positive thing between you guys, that for one says allot about the health of your relationship. These things need hashed out. If its a break or even walking away, you will know that. If there are times to venture out again, hopefully some things have been resolved with a better understanding.

Never think what you have brought up here is held against you, Its not. We are all different and from different roads in life.

Mrs. fun has always let me post some thoughts here because she enjoys seeing my thoughts in a different light sometimes. Sometimes it gives a chance to see things we both overlook in our talks. It is about communication, as anyone can see here that comes to this discussion board.

We hope you guys clear any issues you may find between yourselves, join in on any discussions and find the answers you need. There are many here that we find for inspiration at times, and always improve ourselves each day.

Like hubby, having a bisexual partner is something I have felt is unexplainably extraordinary sometimes, if handled in a positive caring way by both.

Hubby, If you honestly feel that people never get enough, Its the one thing I have no argument about. My cup has been full for quite a while now. Its the people we toast and share our cups with, that make this true.

Tybee Swing · February 27, 2008

It's good that you both got something out of this thread and have verbalized some things in a way that you hadn't before. It sounds like the whole topic has more light on it for you, and you have more understanding about how each other feels. Good luck!

BigirlandHubby · February 27, 2008

Tybee Swing said:

Earlier in this thread, somebody asked if you have tried clubs instead of just profiles online. If you have clubs available where you are, your odds for success are a lot higher there. If there's nobody that night you'd want to play with, you can have sex with each other in a very sexually-charged environment, which can be very hot and a lot of fun.

We have been to a club once, and getting up the nerve to go was big for me... but we did go and had FUN. I just have to muster up the strength... it makes me nervous... but I know it could be way fun, so thanks for the suggestion!

Tybee Swing said:

Any thoughts on going to counseling?

Yes, I have thought about counselling to help me with my "father issues" and I also lean on Hubby a lot for that... he is a great help & support and always has something wonderful to say.

Tybee Swing said:

The remark about going back to being an indoor cat (as in, not allowed to prowl)...that's pouting. It would piss me off, too. The remark, "swinging helps me to not cheat on you" would be very disturbing to me if it came from my husband.

Yeah, I didn't think about the indoor cat comment being "pouting", thank you for that perspective. I hope you were able to see Hubby's remarks regarding the cheating comment... and I know how passionately he will NOT become his father and I do know that both those comments were made in frustration and anger, which he shouldn't do because they stick with me in a very personal way.

Tybee Swing said:

Before Mr. Tybee and I got started with all of this and were talking it through, some of the questions we thought of were, "What happens if one of us isn't really into this after we try it? What if one of us wants to stop at some point? Can we change our mind?" (I'm the one that brought up swinging in the first place.) We made a deal that if either of us didn't want to go into a swing situation at a particular time, or wanted to stop for a certain period of time, or even stop forever, there would be no pouting, no anger, no holding it over the other's head. The deal is, "if it's not good for both of us, it's not for either of us". We made a deal that above all else, we are #1, then family/jobs/life, and all the rest is in a distant third place (at best).

We have had similar discussions where Hubby has been very reassuring about NOT swinging if I don't want to and being OK if we don't do it. We did decide to stop when we moved from Vancouver, BC to Florida in September... that was my call. He pouted a little bit, but got over it and we were happy as we have always been. It was ME that decided to get another account set up here in Florida, and I really think we are not as much "headcases" as we may seem ... LOL ... we talk a LOT about this issue and we are constantly communicating, making sure we each understand the other and making sure we are ok with where things are going. We are not just about swinging... it is a small fraction of who we are... and I like that it genuinely feels that way because for a while, it seemed like it was every word out of our mouths, every conversation during the day... but now that we have worked through things, it is much more comfortable. My hope is that it remains like that.

Tybee Swing said:

We would just move forward with our lives, and we'd be able to say we tried it, at least. Bottom line: we don't "need" swinging. There are many, many threads & posts just like this on this board - many other couples here feel the same way about it.

I am so proud of Hubby for seeking this board out... he's such a great guy... and he did it to help US and to make sure he was doing the right thing for US & me... and some of the comments on this board have helped him to see things differently and we have come to a new understanding and I am very pleased. I love the above comment... and I said that to Hubby last night... if this all stopped tomorrow, we at least DID it and TRIED it... and we are the same... we don't "need" swinging... and for a while there I felt that Hubby did... but I truly believe that we are in this together and for the same reasons and I feel so good about it and I have the people on this board to thank for helping us and making us feel like we are not alone. Thank you

Tybee Swing said:

You'll read this a lot here, too: Swinging and cheating have nothing in common; they are polar opposites. Swinging involves opening up completely with your spouse and sharing fantasies on a level that others just dream about. It can bring you very close, because swinging is 100% honest and open. On the other hand, cheating is about sneaking around, dishonesty, and it's about the person you're cheating with (not your spouse). I don't believe that swinging scratches the cheating "itch", because they're not even in the same league.

I know Hubby was quick to post last night when he read your mail because he worried that my posting about one comment that he made in frustration and anger was portraying him in an incorrect light, and I feel that is true. I feel like that comment unfairly made him seem like some a-hole dick who only looks to get his rocks off... and that simply isn't the case. He is one of the most sensitive men, so in touch with his feminine side, listens to what I say... I can go on all day here . I was frustrated about those 2 comments that he had made and wanted to see what the "take" on those comments would be ... and I appreciate your input. I totally agree about your above assessment of cheating vs. swinging...

Again, thank you to all of you... I am now addicted to this board. I was so reassured (I guess that is a sad word to use, but it is how I felt) to read of a woman who was so terribly upset by a man who didn't get a hard on... ahhhh... been there (several times) and NOT done that. LOL... a little hard to "DO" it when it is limp as a noodle! But, after lots of research and talking to Hubby, I have come to learn what crazy beasts those cocks can be sometimes... and reading her thread also helped me feel better to know I am not alone.

You guys ALL ROCK

prettylady · February 27, 2008

Tybee Swing said:

Because she is much pickier and much more slow to move forward with people, perhaps she has felt pushed or rushed when you are flirting with women you meet, hunting, and planning..

This struck a cord with me.

When I first agreed to look into the lifestyle Dog "took the bulls by the horns" sort of speak and I was overwhelmed and scared.

The idea of "what if she is prettier then me" or "is hotter then me" came into my mind more times then I care to think about. We have one friend who is absolutely beautiful. Dog actually calls her "beautiful" as a nickname. Funny thing is, I am not bothered by it. We are on very different ends of the beauty spectrum. I do cute, actually I do cute really quite well. My friend does sexy like NO ONE I know.

When she figures out who SHE is and what her comfort level is in the swing world she may relax and not worry so much about who is or isn't as pretty as she is.

I tried sexy....ya, didn't work for me so good. Once I got out of that dress and into my track pants and jacket I loosened up HUGE!!! and I started to have more fun. Problem is, it was time to go home:sad:

Good luck

prettylady · February 27, 2008

BigirlandHubby said:

Thanks for all your insights! We really wish a couple of you were closer to Orlando, haha

Hey now wait one minute. I am trying to get them closer to Canada. You are clear across the country. That just won't do.

The board has kinda spoiled me a little. I too have dumped problem upon problem on these kind people and never have I felt uncared for. I too wish they were closer.

BigirlandHubby · February 27, 2008

prettylady said:

Hey now wait one minute. I am trying to get them closer to Canada. You are clear across the country. That just won't do.

No shit??? We JUST moved from Canada... Vancouver... we lived there for 5 years! Beautiful, but rains WAY too much. Florida weather is much more my speed ... we love our fellow Canadians (well, I am not Canadian - only at heart - but our daughter is Canadian and I am SO proud of that!)

prettylady said:

When she figures out who SHE is and what her comfort level is in the swing world she may relax and not worry so much about who is or isn't as pretty as she is. I tried sexy....ya, didn't work for me so good. Once I got out of that dress and into my track pants and jacket I loosened up HUGE!!! and I started to have more fun.

Thank you for that! I am still figuring ME out... Hubby will stand me in front of the mirror, buck ass naked, and say "LOOK AT YOU... YOU are SO F*@king HOT!" and it is hard to SEE that, but I see it more and more. You know, you pop out 2 kids, and you worry about not being the same physical being that you were when you met your love at age 17... and I am not the same, I think I am BETTER! I had my best friend from high school visit me after not seeing her for 9 years and we were looking through high school photos and she remarked that I looked better NOW than I did back then. That meant SO much to me! And, with prettylady's comment... I have to say that I am the "CRAZY & LOUD" fun girl... not sure where those are on the "sexy" or "cute" spectrum... I lean more toward "cute", I think... I would have to learn "sexy". I am the girl who gets up on the tables at bars and rubs my booty on the adoring men's faces below... well, I can honestly say I have only ever rubbed my booty on hubby's face at a bar, but I sure do shake and gyrate the booty and have a freakin' awesome time... up on that table, I feel so alive! LOL:D

Maybe I was a stripper in a former life. hehehe

prettylady said:

When I first agreed to look into the lifestyle Dog "took the bulls by the horns" sort of speak and I was overwhelmed and scared. The idea of "what if she is prettier then me" or "is hotter then me" came into my mind more times then I care to think about.

Did I write this, or did you 'prettylady'? Gee... I think these words could have come off of the tips of MY fingers onto the keyboard and into the computer... for sure! Hubby has heard the "prettier than me" song over & over... it is like it is on a record rolling on continuous repeat like those freakin' Baby Einstein videos that you can play in "repeat" mode for kids (yes, I do have young kids, can you tell

I am becoming ADDICTED to these boards... and have spent some of my afternoon reading over several threads and deciding if I should put in my 2 cents or just take it in and what I am realizing is that I AM NOT ALONE! And it feels good. Hubby ROCKS MY WORLD (for several reasons, of course) but mostly today for finding this site so I could see that I am a lot like others out there, experiences tend to fall along the same lines... cocks don't get hard... women feel unattractive... people figuring out their place in the swing world... and it is fantastic! I will expect him to "rock my world" in a different way tonight

safireblues · February 28, 2008

I want to echo the sentiment about counseling. I also struggle with self esteem issues that come from childhood crap, and I find that swinging can exacerbate those issues if I'm not careful. You really have to have a good head on your shoulders to do this...and if you're not feeling like you do at the moment, you're better off pulling back on swinging for the time being and working on you.

IMHO.

BigirlandHubby · February 28, 2008

I do agree about needing counselling. I have been in couselling before (about 15 years ago) regarding my father... and it would probably do me some good, you guys are right. I must say that I feel like you all here have been fantastic support and, you can ask Hubby, my smile is back, I am feeling my head square on my shoulders, and things seem to be feeling comfortable. I often find that talking something through is just so vital... yes, father issues need counselling... but you guys may just see a lot of me on this board... it is theraputic in it's own right. I feel like part of something, part of a group, sharing similar experiences, having similar stories... it is nice to know I am not alone and I am not the only one with the feelings that I have.

Bi-girl

Tybee Swing · February 29, 2008

Bi-girl, Safire's post today made me think of her recent thread, and I'll bet you'd relate to some of how she was feeling: Do you ever feel like the chance for rejection isn't worth it?

I'm glad you guys are feeling happier about things and feel like you've found a community here.

BigirlandHubby · February 29, 2008

Thank you Tybee!!!

That was a very helpful thread!!!

Bi-girl

katsgoods · March 1, 2008

I want to reply to this message from MRS FUN, because even though me and my fiance are newbies, and have not played together yet-I too have some weird feelings about him finding someone on his own. He doesn't like the fact that I have asked this of him, he has experience I don't and I explained to him all of this is new to me-be patient with me, let me experience at least my first or second time with the three of us if we could actually find another Female only to join us which seems impossible, and see if I can be comfortable at that point to have him find someone on his own. I have no problem with the both of us looking and choosing someone-I don't think there is a problem with us looking together I actually prefer that more. I have alot of insecurities about my weight that I am slowly overcoming, and being more positive about my self, and have actually just lost 20 lbs in the last 2 months-I don't think it's just about me when finding someone. I think we both as a couple have to come to some kind of agreement when searching-even though I am a big woman, when searching and looking at pics of womens ads I find myself not attracted to some big women, Is that wrong? And MRS FUN what is that group called on SLS because it is so hard to find someone who is actually truthful and real, we are only looking for a Female for now I am not interested in another Male-at least not right now-I only want the Male that I have.

Tybee Swing · March 5, 2008

even though me and my fiance are newbies, and have not played together yet-I too have some weird feelings about him finding someone on his own. He doesn't like the fact that I have asked this of him

Hi katsgoods,

Most swingers actually stick together with swinging and don't have sex partners on their own. When people find separate partners to play with on their own, that's called "open marriage" (or open relationship, in your case) and is actually quite different.

If you are comfortable with the two of you seeking, finding and playing with partners together, but not comfortable with him seeking on his own, you don't have to accept that. Speak your mind and be very honest with how you feel about everything.

Just because he's had experience with this and you haven't, that doesn't mean you have to accept what he wants at face value. Form your own opinions and really think about your comfort level with everything. The #1 rule in swinging is that if it's not good for both partners, it's not good for either, and you always go at the pace of the slowest partner.

Best wishes.

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