Is it true that females call the shots in the Swinging Lifestyle?

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

It's often said that women rule the world when it comes to swinging. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. The other thing that is often said is that everyone should move at the pace of the slowest person... it seems like when we say that we assume that the slowest is the woman. But if the man is the one that is creeping into the idea of swinging and the woman has already been there (as in my case), then I would think that everything moves at his pace... and in that respect doesn't he rule?

 

Should it really be a matter of anyone 'ruling" in the swinging world? Or should it just be everyone having fun and "no means no" regardless of who says it and everyone be respectful and ask first? I guess I just have a hard time buying the whole women are (or should be) always in control and making the decisions when it comes to swinging.

 

Just throwing my train of consciousness out there to see if I can derail anyone elses.

[Dynamar 246]

A group I'm involved in on a swinger's website holds periodic (about once a month) Meet & Greets.

 

We just had another one Saturday night... and observing behavior of couples at these events is something that fascinates me.

 

For example, since the organizers of the parties are all single females... we invite couples to get the critical mass needed to have a good party, but we also want our parties to be "single-friendly".

 

Single males, as we all know, are often treated with disdain, but we'd like to think that a vast majority of the guys who make it on our guest lists are cool and laid-back, and we want to give them a helping hand. Therefore, a few parties back we instituted a bracelet system. If a lady or couple is interested in talking to single males, then the lady wears a glow bracelet that we provide.

 

The single males at the event are instructed that "no bracelet" means stay away. Wearing the bracelet means you may approach the lady or couple. It works great, because it gives the guys an extra boost of confidence on who to/to not approach, and couples who have no interest at all in single males know they won't be bothered. We've never had any trouble at all with someone not following the protocol.

 

What's interesting is this... as one of the party hostesses, my job is usually helping out at the door, explaining the bracelet system to everyone and offering the bracelets to those who wish to wear them.

 

About 10% of the time, the woman enthusiastically and emphatically says "YES" to wearing the bracelet. In another 10% of the cases, the woman emphatically says "NO" to the bracelet (this response is usually coupled with a large head shake and/or a scrunching up of the nose).

 

The other 80%, the female 1/2 will look to the male half to see if it's "OK" to wear the bracelet. These instances are pretty well evenly split between the male saying "NO", fairly emphatically, in which case the female generally looks somewhat dejected; and the male saying "It's up to you, honey" in a resigned manner. In the latter case, the females pretty evenly split between wearing the bracelet and saying "no, thank you."

 

From these observations, there's definitely situations all over the map as to who actually controls the course of events. What always breaks my heart though, is seeing the couples where they clearly don't agree on whether to wear the bracelet or not. It never bothers me that someone doesn't wear the bracelet... after all, your preferences are your preferences. So, it's a good thing when you can see that a couple either enthusiastically agrees or politely declines. But when it's obvious that a couple isn't on the same page with their preferences, perhaps because they just haven't talked it out enough... hmmm... that's not good.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

I've wondered about that theory. For us, Mr LM rules our swinging world most because he is the one who more often rejects a couple that I would enjoy being with.

 

The "power to rule" in our house has always jumped back and forth, depending on what we have before us. This is because it always comes down to us agreeing on what we do. Sometimes I say no, sometimes he puts on the brakes.

 

Shouldn't the swinging motto be "Couples Rule the Swinging World?"

 

LM

[Dynamar 246]

 

Shouldn't the swinging motto be "Couples Rule the Swinging World?"

 

LM

Awww... and here I thought "Single Bi-Fems Ruled the Swinging World"!

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Awww... and here I thought "Single Bi-Fems Ruled the Swinging World"!

Dynamar ~

 

I had a feeling I'd hear from you.

 

I wrote that statement since this thread focused on couples. And because there are more couples swinging than singles.

 

But I agree, Dynamar, that it doesn't matter whether you are a couple or single, the people swinging make the rules, that means everyone.

 

LM

[Dynamar 246]

I wrote that statement since this thread focused on couples. And because there are more couples swinging than singles.

No explanation needed, doll! Because, of course, you knew my tongue was firmly in cheek on that one!

[tribbles 490]

Should it really be a matter of anyone 'ruling" in the swinging world? Or should it just be everyone having fun and "no means no" regardless of who says it and everyone be respectful and ask first?

 

We are a team and neither of us 'rules'.

 

It outta be fun with 'no means no' and everyone able to work toward what fun is there for each person. IMHO

 

S

[good times 991]

We rule equally or together, depending on the circumstances. Among couples that obviously one of them is the primary decision maker, I haven't noticed it being females more than males.

 

One thing we have noticed lately though that seems kind of odd to me is couples were the male makes all the decisions on play partners and the woman has no say in it at all. Some time back we were playing with a couple and were taking a little break from the action and the subject of taking one for the team came up. The male of the couple said, "J____ almost always takes one for the team, because I pick our play partners." Needless to say, our play session ended right there. A big part of the excitement of swinging to me is knowing the woman I am playing with is into having sex with me. Finding this that out about them, even though I didn't know if that was the case with us, was an instant turn-off for me. Since then we have met several other couples that do the same thing. Seems to be a weird way to play to me.

[good times 991]

Dynamar,

 

I was wondering if you have noticed how many couples choose not to wear a wrist band at the parties but do play with single males anyway? the reason I ask is that I have been to several parties that have some method of displaying your preferences available, but have noticed that very few of the people take advantage of it. For example, we went to a party that had different color of glasses for your drinks that would indicated what you were in to. They also had clear glasses available if you chose not to participate, most people (including us) used the clear glasses. We aren't into single males, but it seems to me that if we were we would prefer to do the approaching rather than wear a wrist band inviting the males to approach us. So I wonder if you have noticed others at your parties that do it that way instead of wearing the band?

[Chicup 42]

Women rule the swinging world more due to the apparent fact that an aggressive woman is allowed and encouraged and an aggressive male is a jerk.

 

You go at the woman's pace because she is the one who can determine it. I've seen times where the woman is MUCH more into it than the guy, and while it often ends in disaster, they still went at her pace, the disaster part happened when they got home. When the woman isn't into it, it seems to go no where, and the drama if the male forces it would be right then at the club/party. While I'm sure we all have examples where the man put on the breaks at the time of action, I think its far less common.

 

Ironically it is the men who I think decide this. I don't like pushy guys putting unwanted moves on Mrs. Chicup, likewise I don't want to be that pushy guy. If the other woman puts the move on me, then its ok.

 

I've also heard women complaining about this as some of them want the other male to be the aggressive one, and I can understand that, but its against the guy 'code' of swinging.

 

So women rule swinging but only because the men demand it. I think the most 'successful' swingers as in having the most partners that they are both into will have a very open and aggressive female. This is a bit of an issue for us as Mrs. Chicup is quite shy when it comes to her own looks and being the one to make the first move.

[Dynamar 246]

Dynamar,

 

I was wondering if you have noticed how many couples choose not to wear a wrist band at the parties but do play with single males anyway? ... We aren't into single males, but it seems to me that if we were we would prefer to do the approaching rather than wear a wrist band inviting the males to approach us. So I wonder if you have noticed others at your parties that do it that way instead of wearing the band?

Very perceptive question, good times... and in fact, I did notice a little of this for the first time last Saturday. It just really hadn't been displayed by party-goers as an attitude before for some reason. All-in-all though, the feedback we've gotten from people is that they like it so I imagine we will continue to use the system.

 

(Sorry to somewhat hijack the thread LikeMinds... )

[Dooode 18]

It's often said that women rule the world when it comes to swinging. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. The other thing that is often said is that everyone should move at the pace of the slowest person... it seems like when we say that we assume that the slowest is the woman. But if the man is the one that is creeping into the idea of swinging and the woman has already been there (as in my case), then I would think that everything moves at his pace... and in that respect doesn't he rule?

Very interesting theory Julie! LOL

 

I don't swallow it tho. I think "women rule the swing world" pertains mostly to hetero swing clubs, where women can let their hair down and feel safe, and where men (in theory!) have to restrain themselves a bit more than say ... if they were at a bar, where the attitude's more the other way around.

 

I do have one story which pertains to this discussion tho:

 

The husband of a couple I've known for 15 years made the mistake of telling his wife that "women rule the swing world". She being new at the scene, pretty much took over all THEIR swing decisions--and she's not bi, so she picked lotsa single guys to have sex with ... leaving him pretty much with his dick in his hands.

 

Needless to say, their "recreation time" worsened because she was having all the fun and he was constantly being left out. So finally he put his foot down and said, "No more swinging!" and now they're supposedly working on their relationship. It's been two years now.

 

Personally, I think that in order for swinging to work, I think there has to be a balance (and agreement) between both married partners and not just one leading. "Women rule the swing world" pertains only to swing clubs but the overall decision for the actions of both members of the marriage have to be made between them for it to have balance.

[prettylady 221]

Dog has told me that I am incharge. I make the final decision.

I am not completly comfortable with that idea. I don't want to decide who he plays with. he has to make that decision for himself.

But, I have to say. I LOVE BEING THE BOSS.

Good Dog.

Just kidding. I want 50/50. I would hate to find out he "took one for the team".

Your friend,

Prettylady

[Pepper & Drew 384]

I don't buy that either....certainly not with all couples. For the most part, Drew rules, since he's the one who is a little...well....pickier. I think because the stereotype that men will nail anything, and that women are more hesitant is alive and well. In a lot of cases, the guy is the one that is hesitant and the woman is raring to go.

 

Pepper

[WesternSwing 504]

Women rule the swinging world more due to the apparent fact that an aggressive woman is allowed and encouraged and an aggressive male is a jerk.

I agree with this statement. The exception is when there is a definite attraction with the woman and she wants to "be taken" by an aggressive male. But in most instances a forward male is just looked upon as, like you said, a jerk.

 

It has been my observation also that men tend to have a wider strike zone then women and women seem to be a little pickier about the men they have sex with. Therefore it appears the women have more to say about who they play with, when they play, and where they play.

 

Even outside of swinging, a Mrs. WS says "Pussy rules the world."

 

Mr. WS

[Sweet_Candy 54]

It has been my observation also that men tend to have a wider strike zone then women and women seem to be a little pickier about the men they have sex with. Therefore it appears the women have more to say about who they play with, when they play, and where they play.

Mr. WS

 

Would have to agree with this assessment too. If there were better looking men in the LS our chances as a couple would improve greatly. Why is it the women are to maintain their appearance but the men are allowed to go to seed?

[TNT 1,155]

Is it that "women rule" because in the majority of the cases it's the woman that needs to feel like she has all the power and the man recognizes this as something that she needs for her comfort level and therefore it's beneficial for them both that she "rules" ?

 

Women do seem to have more "freedom" in the swinging world than the men do...but is it really that they "rule"? Is freedom equated with ruling when it comes to swinging?

 

I do think that the slowest person, whether it's the man or the woman, needs to feel that they have a certain amount of control in how fast things progress...if they don't feel like they have control , IMO, they would start to feel like they are being pushed and when you feel pushed into anything, resentment starts to build.

 

In our case I don't think that either one of us rule...there are times that Ted will say no and there are times that I say no...our power balance shifts depending on the situation in our swinging lives and our vanilla lives.

 

 

Teresa

[willyoats 324]

He suggests many things. She says yes or no, and that is that! He ALWAYS respects her wishes. If she doesn't want to do it, we don't do it, period. She also respects his wishes and desires, when for instance there is a guy she might be interested in but he has reservations about (which has only happened once in 18 years). On the other hand, she almost never says no to something that he really wants to try. After all these years, we have a pretty good feeling about who wants what the most strongly, and we go along with it unless there is a strong revulsion.

[socolais 696]

I voted that women have the final say although I think that's not quite an absolute. I think, generally speaking the ladies tend to rule most of swingdom. Generally, women tend to be pickier than men and the pickier group acclimate toward the decision making process. Everyone eventually gets the opportunity to say no and it's the collection of nos that define the generally available options. I think if women collectively want to see or participate in an activity it will show up in some aspect of swinging and I know if I want to host a "house party" down at my favorite fishing hole, I'll have to sell the idea to the women.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

I believe its a mutual decision. However, I have been pretty spoiled lately. Why would I say no ?

[Styles-N-Heidi 41]

I believe its a mutual decision. However, I have been pretty spoiled lately. Why would I say no ?

 

Yeah ummm we are in this together. We discuss everything and decide as a team. It's what we are, it's what it should be, and if it's not then thats just abnormal :p

[LFM2 1,482]

It's kind of a toss up at our house. If he says no, it's no. If I say no, it's no. Most times, we're both on the same page and we decide together. It isn't always him or me. But it's not always us together, either. Dang -- Does that make sense?

[cocpl2007 170]

We are equally invested in this. And amazingly similar in our likes and dislikes in "these" types of friends.

[Chris&Amelia 253]

While I have a significant input, Amelia has the final decision. Always.

[sc4play 17]

As most people on this board,we are in this equally as well,But Lisa usually has the final say-so,her gut feeling usually is 99% right.I stay happy as long as she is happy.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

We have talked about this again Michael, Mrs.fun has said before that I'm not very selective. Yes its our differences again because she is VERY selective. She can get a vibe easier than me about someones personality. I have found it best to listen and consider her thoughts.

 

Now to some, that may make me sound like a male pig that chases every woman. But thats not the case, as we have talked about this before and again.

 

I personally find women very interesting in other ways besides just the sex. Something about them that draws my interests. Who they are. Its almost like a mystery that I find interesting. I have a hard time seeing less attractiveness in women physically. I have found an interest in most women no matter what the size, shape, color or creed. And yes, even the so called (bitchy mood woman) could get my attention. She would be the one that I wouldn't take personally, but would consider what made her feel that way.

 

Thats what would cause me to be less selective in the lifestyle. The actual sexual drive or chemistry is what I would have to feel at a closer range, to decide yes or no with playing.

 

Now Mrs.fun, on the other hand, has a keener sense of judgment with possible playmates. Thats why we talk.

 

I cant say that either of us would hold a higher power in our decisions. If she says no, I wouldn't try to convince her or change her mind. But she would consider my thoughts and what my feelings are. Sometimes when its a male playmate that she is unsure about, she would take my judgments into consideration on his character.

 

If its the females that we play with, or she plays with. Yes, she would have a greater power of selectiveness in this area. Its not unfair to me by any means. Its my choice for this to be about HER not ME so much. Like I say though, at this point I have no regrets.

 

This may seem to keep us out of the general consensus of who calls the shots, but its who we are.

[lustylearning 705]

Final say? I really don't think I could force my husband into doing something he didn't want to do just because I'm the woman. I would think that either party in every couple has veto power.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I think it really depends on the couple. I think in the end it should go back to "move at the pace of the slower partner". Sometimes that is the woman sometimes it's the man. For us, we've agreed that if we aren't both ok with something or someone we won't do it/them. I think it's pretty much equal for us on who calls the shots - we call them together.

[sweet_tna 680]

Mr. Sweet has input, and I always respect his wishes. But most often, he defers to me.

 

=)

[havefuninsun 122]

It's kind of a toss up at our house. If he says no, it's no. If I say no, it's no. Most times, we're both on the same page and we decide together. It isn't always him or me. But it's not always us together, either. Dang -- Does that make sense?

 

Makes perfect sense to me.

 

I voted that we have equal say, and it's true. I used to think I was in charge, but I was wrong. LOL! I guess I didn't think I would be told "no" -- but we've been venturing in this thing long enough that I have heard the dreaded "n" word ... and please -- you guys know what I mean. I was told no.

 

(I don't like being told no. THAT'S pretty womanly, don't ya think?!?)

[sexcupid 809]

We also are of the belief that we both have input into who we play with. I usually do most of the 'looking' for playmates, if he says 'let's set up a meet' then we do. If not, then I keep looking.

 

However, maybe I am taking the OP/subject line in the thread too literally. As in 'Women basically run/rule the lifestyle'...I see quite a few folks that have that mentality. That it's all for the ladies and it doesn't matter what the guys want.

[Greg & Sheryl 369]

Sheryl definitely calls the shots regarding our lifestyle. Although Greg handles most of the communcations and makes most of the arrangements, every last detail must meet with Sheryl's approval. She's not afraid to use her veto power early and often.

[two42lovers 273]

Of course, for any given couple, it could be either half. We definitely decide together, but in the "big picture" sense, women rule Swingdom. It's just a reality. How easy would it be for an average single woman to find a partner and participate in the lifestyle? How easy for an average single man? Strictly speaking, it takes two couples. Either half of either couple can make it not happen. (Of course there are other combinations, but they're not relevant to the OP's question.)

 

Naturally, any in-love couple cares about what each other thinks, and choose partners accordingly. Even so, just look at the ratio between solo men, couples, and solo women on the swing sites. Guys with partners who like to swing are fortunate, to say the least, and do well to keep in mind what side the butter in on...

[km34 672]

In general, women call the shots most often.

 

With us, we're partners so we make decisions together. Sometimes I'll veto, sometimes he will. Sometimes I'll fight for a specific event/person/couple/activity, sometimes he will.

[angelkin 1,326]

Interesting that nobody has chosen that the man calls the shots! We prefer 50/50 in everything...so swinging isn't any different for us. Our approach is a lot like km34's ...veto power and persuasion:)

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Interesting that nobody has chosen that the man calls the shots!

 

Er, I just ruined that perfect record.

 

I think it really is about strike zones. In this case, we both have very catholic tastes in the opposite sex, but he has higher standards for men than I have for women. He's also more protective of his time than I am and wants a strong attraction/connection, where I'm willing to give lukewarm attraction a go, because I've never had an interaction that I didn't find pleasurable on some level.

[prairieshadows 95]

With us, any choices we make with swinging we make together. Bryan usually initiates contact with other couples first, but we both will talk with the other couple we meet, but as far as meeting and anything we do with other couples, we don't do anything without talking about it first with each other to make sure it's something that we both want to do. That way we're both on the same page and that one of us isn't doing it to make the other happy.

[Fundamental Law 2,903]

There's a distinction between who makes the decisions about playmates and who is on lead during play. Our experience: women have near-absolute veto power. Women call the "not" shots.

[angelkin 1,326]

There's a distinction between who makes the decisions about playmates and who is on lead during play. Our experience: women have near-absolute veto power. Women call the "not" shots.

 

Funny, we have nearly the opposite approach. I am in the lead, and while we both have absolute veto power he chooses to use it far more often than I do.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

We're both into swinging but I think I tend to move faster and I am more open to different experiences within the LS than Mr. Sun so he is the one in charge of the pace for us. If he's comfortable with how we swing, that's what we do. If not, we don't move forward. Thus, I usually let him "call the shots" in when to go out and what to do. I may suggest something or a specific couple at times but that's how it works currently. I do have veto power if I don't feel up to swinging a certain weekend but I usually go with the flow.

[ready4fun48 46]

She definitely calls the shots with playmates and playing. I suppose I have veto power, but never had reason to use it because she has better judgement than me in those areas. She is way better with intuitive insights and I am happy to have her take the lead.

[Chicup 42]

Funny, we have nearly the opposite approach. I am in the lead, and while we both have absolute veto power he chooses to use it far more often than I do.

 

I think the "no" vote comes down to the less involved member of the couple. I'm the lead in our swinging adventures. I make the connections. I make the introductions. I do all the leg work. This is something I asked her to help with lately because I think its far more approachable for women to do this than the men, but for now thats how we work. As such she gets the "no". In couples I've seen where the female takes the lead, its the male who fills that no vote role. It sort of makes sense and isn't really to deep. The one doing "all the work" already voted yes otherwise they wouldn't have done the work.

[Cancuple-he 37]

Mrs. Cancuple makes all the decisions. It is what it is...

 

And I'm perfectly OK with that!

 

[Tia Vampire 167]

I have found that it is easier for women to find sex partners, but because the wife don't want to leave the husband without a chance to play, we move at the pace of the guy. So IMO, the guys have the last say.

[Chicup 42]

I think the "no" vote comes down to the less involved member of the couple. I'm the lead in our swinging adventures. I make the connections. I make the introductions. I do all the leg work. This is something I asked her to help with lately because I think its far more approachable for women to do this than the men, but for now thats how we work. As such she gets the "no". In couples I've seen where the female takes the lead, its the male who fills that no vote role. It sort of makes sense and isn't really to deep. The one doing "all the work" already voted yes otherwise they wouldn't have done the work.

 

I think I'll expound on this idea of mine a bit. The "lead" in swinging has already made a decision so to speak. It was made early on. So lets say I'm online, a couple mails us. If I think its a no, she never even sees it (unless there is something amusing to show her). If I think its ok, I've already had my "vote". Now she sees it and says no, she "vetoed" but that was the only possible outcome besides yes. The same may apply at a club or the like. You start talking to a couple, you think its a good match, then you bring your spouse to meet them. You already had your say, now its in their court. That is the veto.

 

Now if my wife decided who we play with, and if she said yes it was a go without my say, then women would "call the shots", at least mine. It doesn't work that way though.

[Sensualbicouple 122]

Prior to our break, we both took the lead to look for suitable playmates and we also both replied. To be honest it worked only for a short time. Out of the two of us, I am more of a conversationalist, so it was easier for me to make the introductions and do the leg work. Hubby was more interested in just looking at profiles etc. This time, we have decided that I will continue to do the scouting, make introductions with potentials and send the messages/flirts etc. And hubby will do the work of replying to suitable messages/flirts or disregard them. However in all cases, potentials will be shown to the other but anyone who isn't, will be politely declined.

[Trophy1802 132]

Have to agree that the women is in charge when it comes to play........no if, ands, or buts. Or, at least that is the way it is with us and enjoy knowing the fact that Mrs Trophy calls he shots.

 

From early on, we realized that for us, be comfortable with being with another couple was priority number one. For me, knowing that she is comfortable and in control makes the experienced all that more enjoyable for myself.

 

Just our 2 cents.