Does Swinging have a "feminizing" affect on men?

[cubnamy1995 124]

I was reading a post from a thread about single males when numbskulls2x made a comment that got me thinking. Men who are successful in this lifestyle seem to understand women in general a little better than your average vanilla man. Do you think this is because we men in the lifestyle are more "in touch with our feminine side?" or is it that we just like the idea of having tons of wild sex and we are willing to do things other men wouldn't in order to get it.

 

I mean no disrespect to the ladies here, but let's be honest. Those of us men who enjoy the idea of our wives/gfs enjoying sexual variety while emotionally faithful to us are the exception to the rule. Maybe we are more evolved then men who live their lives slaves to basic jealousy, but we are still guys, and we still love the locker-room talk, and when we have just gotten laid by each other's wives, we want to talk about golf, that 69 Camaro I'm restoring, and in my case, what we think Rainbow Six Vegas 2 is going to be like on XBox vs. Playstation.

 

There is a great amount of truth in the notion that women make the rules in this lifestyle. I appreciate and respect it, and wouldn't want it any other way, but guys, how do you relate with other men in the lifestyle, and do you feel that it is still OK for us guys to act like guys? I hope this makes sense.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,024]

I think swinging brings a man closer to his true nature -- the nature inherited through evolution. The Macho Man is a cultural thing. I have visited Paupua New Guinea and Irian Jaya where the behavior of men before they are married would be called bi-sexual in our culture and straight after marriage. A man who visits another village is given the company of the chief's wife for an evening. Is that swinging? No, but I present it to illustrate my point about culture.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

cubnamy1995 said:

 

Men who are successful in this lifestyle seem to understand women in general a little better than your average vanilla man...is it that we just like the idea of having tons of wild sex and we are willing to do things other men wouldn't in order to get it.

I don't think men in the lifestyle understand women any better than your average vanilla guy. Men - smart men - know that if they want to get their wife to agree to something they have to be clever enough to make it seem like their wife's idea.

 

Quote

I mean no disrespect to the ladies here, but let's be honest. Those of us men who enjoy the idea of our wives/gfs enjoying sexual variety while emotionally faithful to us are the exception to the rule. Maybe we are more evolved then men who live their lives slaves to basic jealousy...

Sharing your wife with other guys is the exception to the rule, I'll agree with you there. Swinging guys are more open to going outside the social norm, but I don't know how swinging in itself can make a person more "evolved."

 

Quote

...we are still guys, and we still love the locker-room talk, and when we have just gotten laid by each other's wives, we want to talk about golf, that 69 Camaro I'm restoring, and in my case, what we think Rainbow Six Vegas 2 is going to be like on XBox vs. Playstation.

And don't forget guns, hunting, and fishing.

 

Quote

There is a great amount of truth in the notion that women make the rules in this lifestyle. I appreciate and respect it, and wouldn't want it any other way...

I keep hearing people telling me that I (being the woman) make the rules. I have never felt I make the rules, we do.

 

I always hope that men in the lifestyle will feel comfortable being themselves when around swingers. I want to meet men who, if I should run into them outside the swing scene, would be exactly the same.

 

About the "feminine side" in men in the lifestyle, I'll be watching this thread to see what the guys say.

[cubnamy1995 124]

I don't think men in the lifestyle understand women any better than your average vanilla guy. Men - smart men - know that if they want to get their wife to agree to something they have to be cleaver enough to make it seem like their wife's idea.

 

I am not nearly that clever.

 

 

And don't forget guns, hunting, and fishing.

 

I'm in the market for a Springfield Armory Xd. I'm leaving my 9mm comfort zone and going with a .40 cal. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

I keep hearing people telling me that I (being the woman) make the rules. I have never felt I make the rules, we do.

 

I always hope that men in the lifestyle will feel comfortable being themselves when around swingers. I want to meet men who, if I should run into them outside the swing scene, would be exactly the same.

 

I watched Bill Maher say something in one of his stand-up routines. He said there was no such thing as mutually shared fantasies between men and women. Yours bore us, ours offend you. I guess my point was that we men, left to our own devices, can come up with some really twisted stuff.

 

I'm the same guy, whether in a lifestyle situation or not. While I like to think that I've got it together moreso than the average dude in the vanilla world, the fact remains that I am under the influence of testosterone, and that doesn't change with the environment. I love you all for the beautiful, sexy creatures you are, but we hubbies and bfs are still going to think that while you are pretty and smell good, you are weird and sometimes give us cooties.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

I love you all for the beautiful, sexy creatures you are, but we hubbies and bfs are still going to think that while you are pretty and smell good, you are weird and sometimes give us cooties.

Edit your post and change "cooties" to "cookies" and I will be weird for you and also bring you cookies.

 

LM ~ A woman who, when left to her own devices, can come up with some really twisted stuff.

[cubnamy1995 124]

Edit your post and change "cooties" to "cookies" and I will be weird for you and also bring you cookies.

 

LM ~ A woman who, when left to her own devices, can come up with some really twisted stuff.

 

It's a deal. I meant COOKIES!!!! If you'll be weird for me, I promise to pay you back in kind.

[socolais 696]

Is this a discussion topic or a personal flirt thread???

 

I was reading some philosophy last night about why the expectation of monogamy is the social norm. The author's thought was the norm of monogamy is the result of paterminal dominance. He admitted that his supporting arguments were incomplete. It made me wonder about what was the sexual patterns associated with matriarchial societies (as a contrast). I haven't read much about the sexual preferences of the Amazons. I have heard about enough nonmonogamus activities (recreational and ritual) within the occult sector of society (which is also dominated by women) to at least make me wonder about the corelation between gender dominance and social sexuality.

 

I think it's fair to say that swingdom is ruled by the ladies. I think it's also important to say that the authority is seldom abused. I think women generally tend to be less selfish than men.

 

So, how do we differ from "vanilla men"? I think is generally the same as how I differ from my preswinging self. I discovered for myself that the notion of jealousy I had believed for so long was completely hollow, a facade, a fabrication designed to convince me to follow the status quo.... I discovered that true respect for each other encouraged rather than discouraged swinging as a recreational activity. So I think swingers have paid attention to the man behind the curtain. What have we given up for the privilage of porkin the neighbor's wife? - trust in meaningless superstitions and acknowledging the benevolent leadership of the ladies.

 

And our preference to exagerate the size of the fish we caught, remains unchanged....

[cubnamy1995 124]

Is this a discussion topic or a personal flirt thread???

Aren't they all personal flirt threads?

 

 

I think it's fair to say that swingdom is ruled by the ladies. I think it's also important to say that the authority is seldom abused. I think women generally tend to be less selfish than men.

 

I would agree with that.

 

So, how do we differ from "vanilla men"? I think is generally the same as how I differ from my preswinging self. I discovered for myself that the notion of jealousy I had believed for so long was completely hollow, a facade, a fabrication designed to convince me to follow the status quo.... I discovered that true respect for each other encouraged rather than discouraged swinging as a recreational activity. So I think swingers have paid attention to the man behind the curtain. What have we given up for the privilage of porkin the neighbor's wife? - trust in meaningless superstitions and acknowledging the benevolent leadership of the ladies.

 

And I also would agree here. My question is more about gender roles I guess. Do you see yourself as more or less masculine since entering the lifestyle than you did before, or the same. In my efforts to be more appealing to the fairer sex, I make sure I'm on my "best" behavior when at a lifestyle function. But I'm a guy, and I still do guy things. Maybe a better way to phrase the question is, do you feel like your behavior has changed to be more "evolved" in public since you started swinging, or are you still a grunter like Tim Allen used to say. Agh Agh Agh Agh.

 

And our preference to exagerate the size of the fish we caught, remains unchanged....

 

That's what I mean. Swing clubs need a man cave where when we are taking a break, we can go watch sportscenter and talk about boats and Harleys and such. I can be on my "best" behavior for a while, then I need to let my inner "pig" out.

[Chicup 41]

I was reading a post from a thread about single males when numbskulls2x made a comment that got me thinking. Men who are successful in this lifestyle seem to understand women in general a little better than your average vanilla man. Do you think this is because we men in the lifestyle are more "in touch with our feminine side?" or is it that we just like the idea of having tons of wild sex and we are willing to do things other men wouldn't in order to get it.

 

TBH this doesn't ring true to me in either case. I'm definately not in touch with my feminine side so to speak, and I am not willing to do other things just to get wild sex.

 

There is a great amount of truth in the notion that women make the rules in this lifestyle. I appreciate and respect it, and wouldn't want it any other way, but guys, how do you relate with other men in the lifestyle, and do you feel that it is still OK for us guys to act like guys? I hope this makes sense.

 

The women I know in swinging do NOT make the rules. Its definately a together thing. This concept is due more to the fact that other men do not like another overly agressive male so we guys back off at first and let the women be the aggressors, but its driven by the men. Also since often in swinging it seems to be a wife who is the reluctant one, shes the one who decides since she isn't sure about the whole thing. I'm sure in the less common couples where the man is dragging his feet, it goes the other way.

 

Honestly I'm not sure what you are getting at because if anything I'm slightly more 'alpha male' since swinging. I dont' think women in swinging find wimps or the sensative type any more attractive in swinging than they do in vanilla dating.

[pervgeeks 119]

Really good question. We seem to be a couple (fortunately) that most of the time, people want to continue to play with us. I think part of it is me (I don't think I'm too shabby in bed myself), but I think an even bigger part is him. The same reason why I love having sex with him (respectful, cares for my pleasure) is the same reason why other women enjoy his company as well. His primary focus is really wanting to be sure that the other women is into it and enjoys it. Sure he likes to get pleasure, but making a woman feel good is the main objective. He's definitely not a die hard macho guy, but he's secure with who he is. He's more of the sweet, boy next door type (who happens to be able to fuck and eat pussy like the Energizer Bunny). Sometimes in the vanilla world, his personality helped him to attract the more sexually timid types (often to his own frustration). In the swinger world, it seems to work out really well for him (and me ). I can't really say he feels more macho because of our experiences. I just think he was always a really nice guy and now he's a really nice guy who has a fun and varied sex life.

[sweet_tna 680]

I was reading a post from a thread about single males when numbskulls2x made a comment that got me thinking. Men who are successful in this lifestyle seem to understand women in general a little better than your average vanilla man. Do you think this is because we men in the lifestyle are more "in touch with our feminine side?"

 

If Mr. Sweet is ANY indication of a typical swinging guy, then NO WAY. I love him to pieces, but he doesn't even HAVE a feminine side (and I've checked).

 

or is it that we just like the idea of having tons of wild sex and we are willing to do things other men wouldn't in order to get it.

 

Like what? Listening and communicating openly with the women you love? By letting her explore her sexuality? To me, these are things that ANY husband/boyfriend/lover should do for "his" woman.

 

I mean no disrespect to the ladies here, but let's be honest. Those of us men who enjoy the idea of our wives/gfs enjoying sexual variety while emotionally faithful to us are the exception to the rule. Maybe we are more evolved then men who live their lives slaves to basic jealousy, but we are still guys, and we still love the locker-room talk, and when we have just gotten laid by each other's wives, we want to talk about golf, that 69 Camaro I'm restoring, and in my case, what we think Rainbow Six Vegas 2 is going to be like on XBox vs. Playstation.

 

More evolved? I don't happen to think that we, as swingers are any better than the next person. Maybe it's just semantics, but I think the qualities most successful men tend to have merely make them DIFFERENT than vanilla men. I've met several vanilla men that have some of these qualities (not jealous, communicate and respect their wives, etc.).

 

There is a great amount of truth in the notion that women make the rules in this lifestyle. I appreciate and respect it, and wouldn't want it any other way, but guys, how do you relate with other men in the lifestyle, and do you feel that it is still OK for us guys to act like guys? I hope this makes sense.

 

I'm with LM in saying that WE as a couple make the rules. If WE didn't, then it would be akin to cuckholding. Not that there's anything wrong with that practice/style, but it's not necessarily part and parcel of swinging, either.

 

I'll definitely have to show this thread to Mr. Sweet, as I cannot speak to how guys relate to other guys in the LS and is it okay to still be "one of the guys". My prediction is he'll say it's not much different than his friendships with vanilla guys.

 

=)

[Trace Ekies 186]

I don't think that carefully considering the wants, wishes and feelings of those around you is a feminine trait. It is a human trait and those that choose not to carefully consider those around them are stupid.

 

So far as macho goes, I've got it! But most importantly I control it...not the other way around.

 

We are swingers for the fun of it. I love knowing that my wife encourages me to have sex with other women. If that isn't fun, I don't know what is.

 

Jealousy is an ugly thing that seems to come from insecurity. Any time I've felt it, I was unsure of my status in that particular situation at that particular time. If you've not felt it, I envy you. The hardest thing is swallowing it and putting on a smile. My last bout with it was well over 20 years ago with my then girlfriend and I swore that night that I'd never let it affect me that way again.

 

Tons of wild sex??? I thought I was supposed to wait in the other room...

[cubnamy1995 124]

All very good points. Let me clarify. My love, respect, and appreciation for my wife are part of who I am, and swinging has nothing to do with it. But I have observed amongst my vanilla friends, that their male behavior gets them in trouble with their SOs, and since I have been swinging, I've also observed that I have a greater tendency to avoid those behaviors because I have learned way more about the female gender since starting this than I ever did before. But that doesn't mean that I don't still act like a typical guy at times, and make no apologies for it.

 

I was curious if other guys had also "grown" in their behavior because of swinging. Do I still think pig headed things? Sure do. But because I am around more women who tend to be very up-front about things, I have learned not to speak them out loud. I was just wondering if anyone else had observed something similar in themselves.

[lustylearning 705]

Do you see yourself as more or less masculine since entering the lifestyle than you did before, or the same. In my efforts to be more appealing to the fairer sex, I make sure I'm on my "best" behavior when at a lifestyle function. But I'm a guy, and I still do guy things. Maybe a better way to phrase the question is, do you feel like your behavior has changed to be more "evolved" in public since you started swinging, or are you still a grunter like Tim Allen used to say. Agh Agh Agh Agh.

 

Hehehe... I think the evolution you're referring to is simply a honing of social skills. As a lifestyler, you have so many opportunities to learn because of the variety of partners you encounter. Most all of us are on our "best" behavior in an LS encounter because it is an effective way to attract. Ummm... sort of like fishing, I imagine::P: If I want to catch the fish, I do not splash about in the water. If I want to catch the woman, I do not "Agh Agh Agh Agh," unless she is out of earshot, and I am in the man cave.

 

Great thread by the way. Lots of great points made by everyone. I really had to giggle at the cooties remark - that was so boy

[cubnamy1995 124]

Thanks, and you nailed it. Many men go through life never attempting to hone their social skills, and are perfectly happy to act like the big kids we really still are. Mine have definitely improved.

 

Amy says I lack a "stupid filter." Apparently, women have the ability to think something, and not say it out loud. The thoughts that pop into my head come out of my mouth unfiltered, which causes problems. But, I'm learning

[Chris&Amelia 253]

Well, I think the "stupid filter" really is a matter of comfort with who you're currently with. I say some pretty stupid things around Amelia all the time, but I do so with the knowledge she won't stare at me slackjawed while frantically trying to hail a cab. Well, at least she hasn't done so yet.

 

I have almost the same level of comfort with a very small group of vanilla friends as well, as well as a one of our swinger friends.

 

But I do have to admit that it is liberating being able to go out to a public even, seeing an attractive woman, glancing over to her and mentally undressing her with your eyes, and knowing that not only is your wife not mad at you, she's doing the same thing.

[sweet_tna 680]

Amy says I lack a "stupid filter." Apparently, women have the ability to think something, and not say it out loud. The thoughts that pop into my head come out of my mouth unfiltered, which causes problems. But, I'm learning

 

Most women do seem to have such a filter. The switch on mine, however, seems to be stuck in the "off" position.

 

=)

[Mr. Sweet 47]

sweet_tna said:

If Mr. Sweet is ANY indication of a typical swinging guy, then NO WAY. I love him to pieces, but he doesn't even HAVE a feminine side (and I've checked).

 

I don't understand honey, I watched Sleepless in Seattle with you????

 

 

 

Quote

Like what? Listening and communicating openly with the women you love? By letting her explore her sexuality? To me, these are things that ANY husband/boyfriend/lover should do for "his" woman.

 

I listen very well when handcuffed to the bed and fed 3 cups of espresso...

 

Truthfully I try to do this for Mrs. Sweet, but she might be happier if she followed the prescribed methodology above.

 

Quote

More evolved? I don't happen to think that we, as swingers are any better than the next person. Maybe it's just semantics, but I think the qualities most successful men tend to have merely make them DIFFERENT than vanilla men. I've met several vanilla men that have some of these qualities (not jealous, communicate and respect their wives, etc.).

 

All I can say is "birds of a feather".....I think swinging lends itself to guys who have some of the above qualities. Lets face it, if we were uncommunicative, jealous, wham, bam, thank you maam......we wouldn't last real long!!

 

Quote

I'm with LM in saying that WE as a couple make the rules. If WE didn't, then it would be akin to cuckolding. Not that there's anything wrong with that practice/style, but it's not necessarily part and parcel of swinging, either.

 

I'll definitely have to show this thread to Mr. Sweet, as I cannot speak to how guys relate to other guys in the LS and is it okay to still be "one of the guys". My prediction is he'll say it's not much different than his friendships with vanilla guys.

 

As for the rules....they are a joint effort, but I feel the women have a little more input as a general rule. With all things and couples, there are exceptions.

 

Yes, it's definitely still a normal relationship among the guys as far as I'm concerned, except I normally won't get drilled for saying "I'd like to F*ck you wife!" We talk about about work stuff, sports, etc and seem to be quite normal at times.

[tittietwister 126]

We believe swinging does have a feminizing effect on men. We have seen too many instances where men don't show the initiative that we would otherwise expect and like to see. We don't mean brutish behavior - just make a polite move without a flagman signaling it is OK to do first.

 

We also believe that swinging can be the beginning of personal evolution and transformation. To get into that deeply would require an off-topic treatise in alternative spirituality and metaphysical concepts.

[Chris&Amelia 253]

I don't understand honey, I watched Sleepless in Seattle with you????

 

Wow. That's dedication for you.

[sweet_tna 680]

Wow. That's dedication for you.

 

He even likes the soundtrack!

 

=)

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

tittietwister said:

 

We believe swinging does have a feminizing effect on men. We have seen too many instances where men don't show the initiative that we would otherwise expect and like to see. We don't mean brutish behavior - just make a polite move without a flagman signaling it is OK to do first.

This really hit home with me.

 

I think many men leave too much of the "matchmaking" up to the women. If they feel women control swinging, it may be because they don't feel they can/should assert themselves as they would if they were single and dating, outside the lifestyle.

 

Leaving it up to women to make the first move becomes a convenient way to do little or nothing, since they can always rationalize their passive behavior with the predominantly held maxim "women rule the lifestyle."

[socolais 696]

This really hit home with me.

 

I think many men leave too much of the "matchmaking" up to the women. If they feel women control swinging, it may be because they don't feel they can/should assert themselves as they would if they were single and dating, outside the lifestyle.

 

Leaving it up to women to make the first move becomes a convenient way to do little or nothing, since they can always rationalize their passive behavior with the predominantly held maxim "women rule the lifestyle."

 

LM

 

I recognise some of this behavior in myself at the parties. I don't consider it so much "feminizing", rather strategy. There's an enormous variance in the level of our assertiveness that the ladies prefer and I feel comfortable with. I think it's strategic to quietly observe her and get some clues about what kind of approach would likely stir her interest. The time spent observing and light flirting is probably percieved as passive activity.

 

Keep in mind, that's only one of the thought processes going on. My "fun-dar" is running full steam and it's a target rich environment......

 

I think it's easier for me when the lady makes the first move and it's great when that happens. I'm willing to make first moves too when I see someone I want.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

A few months ago while at a party, I kind of lost a bet. I wasn't drunk, but I wasn't far from it either.

 

Anyhoo, my loss required me to wear ladies panties to the next party.

 

I didn't feel very feminine that night. But I did feel pretty.

 

From my perspective, I think it has more to do with confidence. I get to go to the parties with my great looking and sexy wife, and we go without expectations, other than to have a good time, with or without playtime.

 

So, I'll extrapolate this purely anecdotal evidence to mean swinging men tend to be confident, happy with their life, and thus more mellow while at parties/socials/clubs.

 

Mr two4you

-Loves the thongs. Hates wearing the thongs.

[sweet_tna 680]

[iapr 24]

I don't know if I would use the term feminizing at all but we sure have encountered a lot of very passive men. They may have just sat there a lot but they did not appear feminin at all.

 

I think there are multiple factors taking place here. I'll share some of my thoughts and I realize that some of my thoughts are not going to be popular or without controversy but since when have ever been afraid of some contro:lol: Here are just some random thoughts in no particular order.

 

- I think most of your true manly-man macho guys would rather cheat than swing. Sure they may like to bring home another chick for their wife to roll around with and for them to fuck for some extra poontang but they don't want any other guys touching their property. So the most aggressive and sexually dominant males of society are not in the lifestyle to begin with.

 

- I don't think males in the LS are feminine but many do seem to see their partners as more of equals and are more respectfull of their mates and of other women than many vanillas I have known. they seem more accepting and supportive of their mates exploring and enjoying their sexuality rather than of controling their mates sexuality like you often see in the vanilla world.

 

- I think there is an actual fear of male sexuality and male assertiveness in the lifestyle. The curse of death for a male in the lifestyle is to be thougth of as "pushy" or as "aggressive." I have had many men tell me and I have read many forum posts where men say they would rather sit in the corner and be thought of as a wimp than to risk being thought of as pushy.

 

- So much of the lifestyle is geared towards the female bi experience that men have in a way been indoctrinated to sit in the corner and keep their mouths shut and keep their hands to themselves. I know of several couples personally where the female half pretty much has the male half under lock and key and he is not allowed to participate with any women at all while she is out picking up her own chicks. In those cases it is not a case of feminizing men but more of a metaphorical catrastion by their own wives.

 

- Some men are so into the fem/fem thing that really aren't all that interested in swapping and just want to watch their wives with other chicks. They may play along a little bit if a woman starts to come on to them but their heads aren't really in the game.

 

- Then closesly related to the above men, some guys aren't feminized they are just downright lazy. I call them " Dud Males."They may be fine with the idea of some kind of swapping but for the most part they just sit there and it is the female half that is the driving force behind the couple being in the lifestyle. It is the female that attracts the couples and sets up the playdates and when the clothes come off she is the one diving in and playing with both parties of a couple but once the other male half wraps her legs around his shoulders, the dud male is just sitting in the chair while the poor wife who's husband is pounding the dud males wife like a porn star is trying to get him into the game.

[Chris&Amelia 253]

A few months ago while at a party, I kind of lost a bet. I wasn't drunk, but I wasn't far from it either.

Anyhoo, my loss required me to wear ladies panties to the next party.

I didn't feel very feminine that night. But I did feel pretty.

 

Hey, I know exactly what you mean. I keep trying to explain that I wear womens' panties because they're comfortable! But I keep getting people looking at me strange.

 

...

 

I'm sorry, what were we talking about again?

[cubnamy1995 124]

Iapr, you said in one post what I have been trying to say all thread. There are aspects of being a man that I will not compromise on, and if it makes me less attractive in the lifestyle, so be it. But I am who I am, and while I'm no alpha male, I'm no cuckold either.

[ncmd_couple 597]

An interesting topic.

 

For me, I had been having swinging/poly thoughts for many years. Now that we are swinging, it has not feminized me at all. I think that everyone is different and their experience levels differ, this determines how outward they are.

 

Me, I got married when I was 18 and didn’t have a lot of dating experience prior to that. I was married for 25 years. Separated then divorced a year later. During that year I dated some, then met Lee. Now, six years later, I’m exploring and learning about how to approach women. I have more confidence now than when this all started a year ago. More experience.

 

Swinging was more a byproduct of other changes in my life and her’s. We started being totally honest with each other. By training early in life I kept my mouth shut most of the time because the women in my life didn’t want to hear the truth. Or at least I didn’t like the reaction from them. I hit a wall one day and said, ok, tell her the truth. I did. It opened up our relationship so that we could learn who each of us really was. The end result is we are getting married in a few weeks.

 

I’m really wanting a 1911 .45, anyone got one for sale? I man, I’m lusting over the Challenger. I had a 1970 360 `Cuda that my ex-wife brow beat me into selling back in `84.

[MRSfun 152]

I'm going to throw my opinion in here.Does swinging have a "feminizing" affect on men ?

 

Not "the man"... My man. I've been here today with not only fun4ds, but our sons, son in law(all family I know) , and a few extras that we know through work, and some of the mans hunting buddies.They are all gone now...

 

Happy fucking Easter, it's my turn to have a drink..... Trust me, the man is not feminine by any means.

 

Here is something that I see, The man is down. He will be off work for quite a while with some surgery, and a few things that would bring less than a man down. Does he show it...... No. He is just not made like that.... Yesterday we could have gone to a club party. I'm thinking no way... I'm doing my best to make sure he doesn't make things worse, and I ask him. "Are you sure ?" I know he is in pain, but when I asked him why should we go in his condition, He says "I'm o.k. , I can handle doggy style. Besides I don't want to hold you back. I can socilize"...... Now god dammit, come on!!!

 

Today he says he wants to at least do the money handling, cleaning and cooking while he is down. I'm thinking O.k. small things we can work with.

 

He tells me yesterday, He is going shopping. I give a list, nothing major . He didn't tell me about the gun show he just happen to see in the paper. He comes dragging in something big..... I'm not sure what cal... yet. But I don't think It can be hung on the wall without supports.

 

While he is out and about he finds also, an antique dish that is very rare for my personal collection. You cant believe how I felt that he thought about....ME. This one and only item is just so rare, and it made me get a little cloudy eyed. This was his first and real intent for shopping.

 

I know the men, my man associates with are far less than sissies or feminine for that matter.

 

He has a natural ability to listen to women. I used to get jealous because allot of women can just sit and talk about things with him. He used to ask me why? Why would two lesbians ask him to sit and have a drink and talk with them in a vanilla bar. Why would bisexual women approach him. You would just have to have that experience and see for yourself to understand. I tell him he is not threatening to women, He doesn't understand that. But he is learning in a mans way, the best he can .

 

He is a mans man by all means. He is primitive in his core, and I mean that in a way that he doesn't have the desire to have the biggest toys. He just wants to be able to play.

 

He understands poetry, he can make a meal on the fire, and learn about spices, He could hunt and provide, and make a garden that a woman would see the flowers in. I've never seen a woman we have played with call him cold, or anything less than a man .

[iapr 24]

Iapr, you said in one post what I have been trying to say all thread. There are aspects of being a man that I will not compromise on, and if it makes me less attractive in the lifestyle, so be it. But I am who I am, and while I'm no alpha male, I'm no cuckold either.

 

Ok so let me throw this out there as a question to ponder then. Lets say that there was a LS event and the only people allowed in the door were couples that were open to the idea of full swap. In other words no Fem/Fem-only couples. No lookey-loos, no posers, no nipple-lickers, no Bi-furious and no unicorns only looking to satify their Bi curiosity but only true full swap couples.

 

Do you think you would see more assertive and more what would be considered "typical" male behaviour?

 

Personally I do think you would see more male assertiveness and less beer-to-chest men in the background behaviour. I think that this female bisexuality-based emphasis in the lifestyle is causing male "uninvolvement" and apathy and not necessarily feminization.

 

 

And I have been lusting after the new 6.8 SPC Ruger Ranch Rifles. But I wouldn't turn my nose up over a Rock River Arms varmint rig in the m4 configuration in 223 either.

[MRSfun 152]

I'm going to throw my opinion in here.Does swinging have a "feminizing" affect on men ?

 

Not "the man"... My man. I've been here today with not only fun4ds, but our sons, son in law(all family I know) , and a few extras that we know through work, and some of the mans hunting buddies.They are all gone now...

 

Happy fucking Easter, it's my turn to have a drink..... Trust me, the man is not feminine by any means.

 

Here is something that I see, The man is down. He will be off work for quite a while with some surgery, and a few things that would bring less than a man down. Does he show it...... No. He is just not made like that.... Yesterday we could have gone to a club party. I'm thinking no way... I'm doing my best to make sure he doesn't make things worse, and I ask him. "Are you sure ?" I know he is in pain, but when I asked him why should we go in his condition, He says "I'm o.k. , I can handle doggy style. Besides I don't want to hold you back. I can socilize"...... Now god dammit, come on!!!

 

Today he says he wants to at least do the money handling, cleaning and cooking while he is down. I'm thinking O.k. small things we can work with.

 

He tells me yesterday, He is going shopping. I give a list, nothing major . He didn't tell me about the gun show he just happen to see in the paper. He comes dragging in something big..... I'm not sure what cal... yet. But I don't think It can be hung on the wall without supports.

 

While he is out and about he finds also, an antique dish that is very rare for my personal collection. You cant believe how I felt that he thought about....ME. This one and only item is just so rare, and it made me get a little cloudy eyed. This was his first and real intent for shopping.

 

I know the men, my man associates with are far less than sissies or feminine for that matter.

 

He has a natural ability to listen to women. I used to get jealous because allot of women can just sit and talk about things with him. He used to ask me why? Why would two lesbians ask him to sit and have a drink and talk with them in a vanilla bar. Why would bisexual women approach him. You would just have to have that experience and see for yourself to understand. I tell him he is not threatening to women, He doesn't understand that. But he is learning in a mans way, the best he can .

 

He is a mans man by all means. He is primitive in his core, and I mean that in a way that he doesn't have the desire to have the biggest toys. He just wants to be able to play.

 

He understands poetry, he can make a meal on the fire, and learn about spices, He could hunt and provide, and make a garden that a woman would see the flowers in. I've never seen a woman we have played with call him cold, or anything less than a man .

 

Oh, and I forgot to tell ya about the other toy he bought while on his shopping adventure. The Elite7X ,seven function,waterproff, ultimate orgasam.. 7 infinate levels of vibration,pulsation and escalation. With rotating head and synchronous beads... The dam thing even has wings This gift, because just in case, he cant have sex after surgery.

 

How could you say this guy is anything less than a man? If this is his feminist side.... I'm o.k. with that .

[Chris&Amelia 253]

And I have been lusting after the new 6.8 SPC Ruger Ranch Rifles. But I wouldn't turn my nose up over a Rock River Arms varmint rig in the m4 configuration in 223 either.

 

Now that's some serious hardware. I've been eyeballing a Para-Ordnance .45 "PDA" but the Kahr Arms .45 "PM" has been catching my attention as well.

[socolais 696]

Ok so let me throw this out there as a question to ponder then. Lets say that there was a LS event and the only people allowed in the door were couples that were open to the idea of full swap. In other words no Fem/Fem-only couples. No lookey-loos, no posers, no nipple-lickers, no Bi-furious and no unicorns only looking to satify their Bi curiosity but only true full swap couples.

 

Do you think you would see more assertive and more what would be considered "typical" male behaviour?

 

Personally I do think you would see more male assertiveness and less beer-to-chest men in the background behaviour. I think that this female bisexuality-based emphasis in the lifestyle is causing male "uninvolvement" and apathy and not necessarily feminization.

 

 

And I have been lusting after the new 6.8 SPC Ruger Ranch Rifles. But I wouldn't turn my nose up over a Rock River Arms varmint rig in the m4 configuration in 223 either.

 

Now THAT sounds like a fun party!! I also think the change in the womens' behavior (competition) would swamp any delta in the mens' behavior. I think respect for the feelings of others would still be the dominant behavior pattern.

 

I have a metal lathe and make my guns from scratch, ARH Arh arh

[MRSfun 152]

I sell craftsman tools for a living..... I have man toys... arh, arh, arh.

 

Oh, and mine is a Glock 9mm.... less jamming problems

[iapr 24]

socolais said:

Now THAT sounds like a fun party!! I also think the change in the women's behavior (competition) would swamp any delta in the men's behavior. I think respect for the feelings of others would still be the dominant behavior pattern.

 

I have a metal lathe and make my guns from scratch, ARH Arh arh

 

So to add to this line of thought, if someone were to host a party and market it as a primarily heterosexual party, do you think anyone would even come? I think even the straights would chicken out because there is such an emphasis on Female bi activity at parties that people would be afraid no one would know what to do

 

I would also like to get a 12ga dbl barrel coach gun some day. Reminds me of an old story. A county sheriff was giving a talk at a women's group luncheon one day and a lady pointed to his gun on his belt and said, " I see you have your pistol with you, are you expecting trouble at our luncheon?" to which he replied, "no ma'am. If I were expecting trouble I would have brought my shotgun."

[Chris&Amelia 253]

Now, if I'm gonna get a gift for my birthday, this is what I want, 590 Mariner - 9 Shot.  (well, that and something else...)

 

And there is quote... not sure who says it. "A pistol is just something to use to fight your way to your long arm."

 

[iapr 24]

And there is quote... not sure who says it. "A pistol is just something to use to fight your way to your long arm."

 

 

The people who say that are the people who have been or realistically may actually be in a gunfight some day.

[cubnamy1995 124]

iapr said:

Ok so let me throw this out there as a question to ponder then. Lets say that there was a LS event and the only people allowed in the door were couples that were open to the idea of full swap. In other words no Fem/Fem-only couples. No lookey-loos, no posers, no nipple-lickers, no Bi-furious and no unicorns only looking to satify their Bi curiosity but only true full swap couples.

 

Do you think you would see more assertive and more what would be considered "typical" male behaviour?

 

Personally I do think you would see more male assertiveness and less beer-to-chest men in the background behaviour. I think that this female bisexuality-based emphasis in the lifestyle is causing male "uninvolvement" and apathy and not necessarily feminization.

 

 

And I have been lusting after the new 6.8 SPC Ruger Ranch Rifles. But I wouldn't turn my nose up over a Rock River Arms varmint rig in the m4 configuration in 223 either.

 

This is Amy. First, let me start off by saying my husband is the quintessential

shit starter. He posts questions just so he has someone to argue with on the weekends as I work every weekend. Usually, I get the brunt of his obscure questions and thought processes that plague his mind. When I am not home, he turns to you all on the boards to get his fix if you will.

In no way do I consider my husband more feminized because of our involvement in the lifestyle. He does not kill a bear with his bare hands, but he does not spend his days shopping for flower print wallpaper and pillow shams to match. I have, however, noticed a change that I consider ..... shall we say simply more evolved.

Let me respond about the stupid filter....My hubby can and frequently does say anything and everything he feels. I have no problem with him expressing his own opinions and I actually rely heavily on them in my own day to day processes. However, he thinks as a man and often sounds like a cave man in the sense of ugh, um yeah baby, and wooooo hoooo. An example is when a female of a couple we had played with came to me as a girlfriend just needing a shoulder because of kids, work, money, and her extended family hurting her feelings, I felt compassion and wanted to make her feel she had a safe place to come and just be. My husbands response, (that he said out loud) "I know what will help.......come rub on my dick and you'll feel all better." This was neither the topic of conversation or the needed sympathy my friend needed. Hence, we now know the reason for the stupid filter. I know he thinks it, I don't have a problem with that, knowing when not to say it out loud is the trick.

I personally don't feel the lifestyle feminizes men. It simply makes our job as the women to be one that we tend to need to get our male counterparts to behave more like grown men that a five year old in a candy store. We are just as excited to meet new people and play, but there is something to be said for etiquette and tact and not seeing the party as a free for all that all my husband has to do is point and play. These are social settings and the fact that most of us , when consuming alcohol, tend to say what is on our mind, it is often in my own best interest to become my husband's stupid filter as not to offend the others we are so desperately wanting to fuck the hell out of in just a little bit.

 

This is Cub again. Yeah, OK, whatever. Again, chicks are weird. To answer your question, I see your point, and you may be right. Look at guys in vanilla bars. They are on the hunt. At a swing club, not as much. Maybe it is because our bi wives/gfs, do a lot of hunting for us, and we have gotten lazy. Maybe we have figured out a better way. I don't know. But as the male half of a swinging couple, I definitely feel the need to be more engaged on a woman's terms than I would if I was just trying to score at a vanilla bar. Could it be that swinging women are more discriminating?

 

MRSfun said:

I sell craftmans tools for a living..... I have man toys... arh, arh, arh.

 

Oh, and mine is a Glock 9mm.... less jamming problems

 

What a sweet life you must have! I used to have a Glock 19. It was an engagement present from my beautiful wife. I loved it dearly, but it was stolen in less than a year by my drug-addict brother. , I like Glocks, but the XDs are a little cheaper, and I think I'm going to go with a .40 cal.

 

Chris&Amelia said:

Now, if I'm gonna get a gift for my birthday, this is what I want (well, that and something else...)

 

Just keep clicking the "more models" right arrow until you get to the "590 Mariner - 9 Shot".

 

And there is quote... not sure who says it. "A pistol is just something to use to fight your way to your long arm."

 

Sweet, but I'll stick with my Benelli tactical.

[socolais 696]

cubnamy1995 said:

This is Amy. ... knowing when not to say it out loud is the trick.

 

 

LOL!!! We men never truely learn this trick. The best we can do is to learn to fake it, and that works out ok more often than not. Fortunately, we have a little head to blame the occasional slips on.....

 

So the consensus is that swinging men are not necessarily feminized, but we do have to recognise that there is a difference. It's the difference that allows playdar to work......

[Thrax 384]

This is Cub again. Yeah, OK, whatever. Again, chicks are weird. To answer your question, I see your point, and you may be right. Look at guys in vanilla bars. They are on the hunt. At a swing club, not as much. Maybe it is because our bi wives/gfs, do a lot of hunting for us, and we have gotten lazy. Maybe we have figured out a better way. I don't know. But as the male half of a swinging couple, I definitely feel the need to be more engaged on a woman's terms than I would if I was just trying to score at a vanilla bar. Could it be that swinging women are more discriminating?

Right off I'll acknowledge my "qualifications" for addressing this topic are extremely suspect. I'm a 51-y.o. single male who's never been married (although I had several short/medium relationships and one long-term relationship. Honest!). No kids. And no sperm-donation centers will be calling me either...I found out about that too late to profit from it.

 

I own a 1996 four-door Honda Accord. It IS a stick, not an automatic; I learned stick 30+ years ago and I'm not changing...for a while. (Plus, it's helpful to know how to drive a manual transmission when traveling outside of the U.S. Renting an automatic transmission car outside of North America, I've found, can be very expensive, since manuals seemed to be the choice in the rest of the world. That could have changed by now. Driving a stick in France, Italy, and the rest of the European continent isn't so bad (although I'd love to try the Autobahn), but really, you haven't lived until you've driven a stick -- on the left side of the road, of course, on the right side of the car -- in England, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand. Fun! (SCARY, occasionally...not even counting the occasional kangaroo or yobbo.))

 

I have no fear of firearms but only have handled BB guns, .22s, and whatever shotguns we used during skeet-shooting during our company "retreats." I'm sort of stuck around an 80% hit-rate with the .22s (used them in summer biathlons: run a mile, shoot five targets prone, run a mile, shoot five targets standing, run a mile, collapse) and the skeet-shooting (only five opportunities at that, though). Maybe I should get a little more practice.

 

I have not hunted, but I've fished. I know how to gut, clean, fillet, and cook fish. And for those of you who are coastal fishermen, I can also clean and prepare a pretty decent skate wing. (Had enough of them chew on hooks when I was just trying to catch some Virginia Spots or flounder, so I decided to learn why European fish companies buy the skates caught by US trawlers. The reason is that skate is pretty tasty.)

 

Oh, and I have a dick.

 

And balls.

 

One ball's rather small, though.

 

So, anyway, am I manly enough?

 

Didn't think so.

 

Well, regardless, I want to make a point, or get back to a point that I might have made if I actually posted what I was thinking awhile ago: In the vanilla bar/pick-up/dating/hooking-up scene the male is usually the aggressor. Yes, lots of women make themselves available in clubs, bars, and other venues, but the male is usually the pursuer.

 

In the lifestyle, the male (single or coupled) has to rein-in his aggressiveness (his sexuality) to some extent. Why? I think because there might be a more level sexual playing field in the lifestyle. Whereas the vanilla world usually works on the men being expected to be more assertive/aggressive ("...because that's the way men are..."), in the lifestyle the situation is closer (it might not be equal, but it's closer) to parity. Women in the lifestyle tend to be more confident in their sexuality, so they can be more confident, and be accepted in that role, in being the "aggressor" in a sexual context.

 

So, what I'm trying to say with the Psych 101 stuff is that the best strategy for getting laid in the vanilla world (most Western culture) is not necessarily the best way to get laid in the "lifestyle." Men are usually perceived as the sexual aggressors in Vanilla World, but in SwingWorld women have a certain level of assertiveness/aggressiveness that is recognized as being equal to, or almost equal to, the testosterone set. In the lifestyle, the WOMAN can ask the MAN to dance...she doesn't have to wait for Sadie Hawkins' Day.

 

Maybe this slow shift to sexual equality is what the Original Poster is getting at; not necessarily that some men are being feminized, but that the lifestyle makes men realize that all men and women are sexual...and that's that way it should be, a level playing field that everyone can enjoy.

 

Thrax

/Btw, my bowling average is 182. Does that sound masculine?

//I can swim a mile in open water in 30 minutes, can you do that?

///I shared a hospital room with Jamie Lee Curtis...sort of

////Oh...never mind

/////Me mum said, "If'n you don't make yer posts useful, at least make 'em enjoyable."

[notaswingeryet 21]

I have not hunted, but I've fished. I know how to gut, clean, fillet, and cook fish. And for those of you who are coastal fishermen, I can also clean and prepare a pretty decent skate wing. (Had enough of them chew on hooks when I was just trying to catch some Virginia Spots or flounder, so I decided to learn why European fish companies buy the skates caught by US trawlers. The reason is that skate is pretty tasty.)

 

Hey email me your recepiet for skate.

I wonder if a swingers club/fishing resort/gun club would do any business.

[cubnamy1995 124]

Hey email me your recepiet for skate.

I wonder if a swingers club/fishing resort/gun club would do any business.

 

I've often said they should put a strip club in Bass Pro Shops. LOL

[fun4Ds 1,098]

In the lifestyle, the male (single or coupled) has to rein-in his aggressiveness (his sexuality) to some extent. Why? I think because there might be a more level sexual playing field in the lifestyle. Whereas the vanilla world usually works on the men being expected to be more assertive/aggressive ("...because that's the way men are..."), in the lifestyle the situation is closer (it might not be equal, but it's closer) to parity. Women in the lifestyle tend to be more confident in their sexuality, so they can be more confident, and be accepted in that role, in being the "aggressor" in a sexual context.

 

So, what I'm trying to say with the Psych 101 stuff is that the best strategy for getting laid in the vanilla world (most Western culture) is not necessarily the best way to get laid in the "lifestyle." Men are usually perceived as the sexual aggressors in Vanilla World, but in SwingWorld women have a certain level of assertiveness/aggressiveness that is recognized as being equal to, or almost equal to, the testosterone set. In the lifestyle, the WOMAN can ask the MAN to dance...she doesn't have to wait for Sadie Hawkins' Day.

 

Maybe this slow shift to sexual equality is what the Original Poster is getting at; not necessarily that some men are being feminized, but that the lifestyle makes men realize that all men and women are sexual...and that's that way it should be, a level playing field that everyone can enjoy.

 

Me mum said, "If'n you don't make yer posts useful, at least make 'em enjoyable.

 

I have held back posting here, for fear of not adding anything useful.

I clearly see your point here Thrax.. And agree.

 

I have to add though, because your reference is from a good point of view, as understanding both worlds. Your a straight single male in a regular bar with good character. Your also exposed to the swinger lifestyle clubs and there again your looks and good character would prevail. I would only like to add to your thoughts, and ask what your take is on this, as I see it from my side.

 

I'm a guy, maybe not so experienced as to picking up chicks in a vanilla bar. The thing that I see that would benefit me in a vanilla setting is my less aggressive behavior. I have had plenty of opportunities, and plainly been asked to hook up. Many times by bisexual women as well. No one could say I'm prince charming . I don't walk in a place and get women falling over one another like some of the Greek God type men do. But you would be surprised, how there have been times over the years, women asking to join me for a drink. From there, one could only presume the outcome. But I've never been the cheating kind .

 

My observation is that yes, men who are aggressive in the vanilla settings could get sex by being more aggressive, chances are. However, there is also the fact that being aggressive could get him shunned by many (word travels fast among women), and not be accepted in the vanilla bar he is in. Oh well, strike out and go around the corner. There he might find a new bar and another possibility of a score. Strike out there and off to the other side of town, depending on the size of the town. It could, and I have seen some friends that are true players, even go to the next town. Not counting the men I know that are actually travelers.

AKA: Road Dogs. There, its an even bigger world

 

Now that same aggressive male in the vanilla lifestyle enters the Swinging world. In a club setting he wants to call local, or at least be a repeat visitor. And one would presume he has the intelligence to be considered a man of good character.. He on his own would have to have a different look at the rules of engagement. Either from learning what we look for as swingers personally, or finding out the rules on the INTERNET or via some information route.

 

First rule of engagement says, piss anyone off, and receive your label. Get kicked out of this swingers club and the next one is far and few between.This tactic of being aggressive would fail. Try saying something to a woman or couple as the aggressor in a swing club, the same as you would in a vanilla club...I don't see the same conversations held by the same men in either place.. Word still travels fast among women. Even faster with couples who visit surrounding clubs. I mean there are only 4 in our state verses thousands of vanilla clubs. Same thing on the INTERNET sites. Piss women or couples off, and e-mails fly. I've seen it.

 

Does my observation deserve anything ? I hate using the term "rules of engagement", but hey Im a guy, we can talk about fishin, and scratchin our nuts later .

 

What do you think ? You know both worlds better than I do, and was glad you chimed in here.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,024]

/////Me mum said, "If'n you don't make yer posts useful, at least make 'em enjoyable."

Do you ever, Mr. Thrax, watch the Red Green Show?

[bill&sabrina 22]

I'm really digging my nice new HiPoint .45acp. I was very leery about a pistol that only retails for $189, but the only bad thing written about them is they are ugly. I gave $150 for mine, brand new. Oh, does swinging "feminize" men? I think the answer is yes, no, maybe. Just depends on the way they swing. Sabrina wants another Springfield 1911.

[cubnamy1995 124]

I'm really digging my nice new HiPoint .45acp. I was very leary about a pistol that only retails for $189, but the only bad thing written about them is they are ugly. I gave $150 for mine, brand new. Oh, does swinging "feminize" men? I think the answer is yes, no, maybe. Just depends on the way they swing. Sabrina wants another Springfield 1911.

Bill

 

I've shot a HiPoint 9mm. Not bad.

[cubnamy1995 124]

Do you ever, Mr. Thrax, watch the Red Green Show?

 

Be sure to keep your stick on the ice.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

I WATCH RED GREEN!!

 

I'm crazy about his nephew who wriggles around like he has to pee all the time.

 

Does Watching Red Green have a "masculizing" affect on women?

 

 

[deanncat 25]

men in lifestyle probably don't understand women more, just get completely honesty from wife and great honest realationship with partner,lol