Abusive husband/wife forcing spouse to swing - what to do?

[prettylady 221]

I was just in a thread about a guy who is confused about his feelings. The thing that caught me off guard was that he commented about the other husband being abusive to the other wife if she didn't agree to swing.

 

What would you do if a wife told you she was forced to swing? I feel confident that most would not play with that couple, but I guess not so much what would you do, but how would you handle it?

 

Being a strong independent woman I couldn't imagine allowing a man to force me into a situation by abusing me. But then again, I took a lot of verbal and emotional abuse from my ex, so maybe I would.

 

Would you feel somewhat responsible to somehow help this woman, or if the shoe is on the other foot, the man?

 

Sub/Dom and cuckolding relationships aside, assuming they are mutually agreed upon, is there anything you could or would do?

[ncmd_couple 597]

I honestly don't know what I would do. Chances are I would find out during pillow talk after the fact, not before. If in advance I would find an excuse to get "L" alone and tell her then make sure that it doesn't go any further. If after the fact, there wouldn't be a second time.

 

I also would not shun her, she is a captive in her relationship. Him, I would give him the cold shoulder. I would probably also tell the folks that own our favorite club what is going on.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,024]

The short answer first, we feel no need to lend help. We assume that the woman got into her mess all on her own and can find her way out all on her own.

 

JoAnn and I have seen abusive bevaviour a few times while developing a relationship with a new couple. It seems to follow a consistent pattern, but not what the OP in the other tread saw. The couple seem to relate to each other perfectly normally throughout the period of becoming acquainted with us. The abuse becomes evident when it comes time for the cloths to come off and the play to begin. The guy hops on JoAnn or leads her upstairs into the bedroom. I turn around to see a woman who just moments before had a smile on her face but now has a pleading look, "Please don't make me do this." It's then that I know that she has only been going along with it to please him. Each time this has happened, JoAnn and I have used words with the couple which are designed to diplomatically convey to the woman that the inability to connect is not her fault and that the man should be more considerate of his wife's feelings. This has happened often enough for us to think we have signs "Amateur Therapist, Bring Your Problem to Me" pinned to our backs.

[lustylearning 705]

If we were in that situation, we'd give her contact information for the local domestic violence shelter and get out of dodge. As a safety measure for her we would probably not tell the guy, "Hey, we're getting the hell out of here because you're an asshole." One of us might suddenly feign illness or something. Beyond that, I don't think there's much else we could do. We wouldn't get more involved because we wouldn't want to bring the stress of their situation into our own.

 

This scenario sounds so awful. It's hard to imagine. I would never want to see it up close and personal. I suppose I entered the lifestyle thinking that everyone I encountered would be mentally and emotionally healthy - not problem free, but healthy. This thread was a sad but important reality check. Thank you.

[sweet_tna 680]

I don't know what I/we'd do, other than decline to play with them. If I were to directly witness any domestic violence or signs of it, I'd be obligated to contact the authorities. But otherwise, I just don't know . . .

 

=(

[sexcupid 809]

The thing is, it's really easy to say 'why don't/didn't you just...' from the outside looking in (and based on the info in your OP here, you've been there, I'm not trying to be condescending).

 

The poster on that thread doesn't seem particularly forthcoming with answers to the questions he's being asked (such as when did he find out, why is he not more concerned with his wife's safety, etc)...so I'm not sure how they are rationalizing wanting to play with him again.

 

Agreed with ncmd that you may not know beforehand, but find out after the fact. Some of what they described seems more along the lines of one partner moving faster than the other and having a general disability to see beyond the end of their dick (i.e. that their spouse is uncomfortable or just not caring that they aren't ready to play).

 

If we knew beforehand, we would not play. Drama and upset just waiting to happen there. Just keep things as friendly as possible, just not friendly enough to play. lol

[WesternSwing 504]

Having first hand experience with a couple where the husband was emotionally and physically abusive I can say that for sure we'd steer clear of them in any form of a relationship. I can also say that the only thing you can do to help is to let her know that you know what is going on and if she ever wants to discuss it you have some phone numbers for people who can help her. And then leave it in her court.

 

We had a neighbor that for several years lived right behind us and she was abused, but it took awhile for it to become apparent - they could only hide it so long before his true nature came-out again. It was terrible. He worked nights and she worked days. When he wasn't sleeping he was popping-in on her at work to check-up on her. When he was at work she couldn't leave the house except to go to the grocery store with the kids. He didn't allow her a cell phone so she couldn't leave the house and lie about where she was. He'd check-up on her on all his breaks. If she was over at our house she'd have her cordless phone with her and she'd have to go into the bathroom so he couldn't hear background noise and know she had left the confines of her prison cell. Errr... I mean house. We offered her help, we got her in touch with the local women's shelter for abused women that had 24 hour guards and was as secure as a minimum security prison to keep abusive husbands out. She never went. We'd call the police when we could hear him on a rampage. When they got there she'd say nothing happened, the TV was just loud. Their relationship finally imploded and they are now divorced.

 

What I'm saying is there is nothing that can be done unless they want it to be done. All you can do is offer them a place to go to for help (not your place) and hope they see the light.

[ncmd_couple 597]

Western Swing,

 

I agree with your post 100%. The only problem is that my middle daughter is in such a relationship. So, I try to keep it all in a pooka and not think about it. But it is what it is. And the original thread and this one has lifted the lid on the pooka. Hopefully this post will put the lid back on and I can go to bed, snuggle up to my lovely lady, and go to sleep.

 

My daughter is in Florida, she is in the Air Force. I originally just thought that he was high strung, but within a year I realized that he wasn’t high strung, he was an abusive bastard. She was pregnant when they got married. When she was in boot camp she was injured and boot wound up being six months long. She left in August and came home on medical leave in December. They packed up their stuff and he and the baby moved into my ex-wife’s house. One morning at 1:00 a.m. he called the police and said he had to leave and said that my ex would interfere with him leaving, long story of that night, but he took my granddaughter and disappeared to Tennessee. Fortunately, I didn’t find out about it until after I couldn’t get my hands on him.

 

Finally, she graduates from Boot and goes to tech school. Another long story, but she goes to Tennessee and meets him and her daughter and they head to Florida. Lots of abuse along the way including him kicking her out of the car and threatening to leaving her on the side of the road and taking the baby. When I finally get to talk to her, I tell her to move into base housing. When he flipped out again, the MPs would take his ID and kick him off the base and she and the baby would be protected. He brow beats her into moving into an apartment off base.

 

I have to watch all of this happening to my child from long distance and sit on my hands because if I go down there, I’m going to jail. I pray every day that this works out ok. But I know one thing. He won’t physically hurt her and take the baby in such a way that I will find out about it. I told him on the phone. “If you hurt her or the baby, there is no place on the face of the earth where you can hide. I will hunt you down and find you.” I did not tell him what I would do when I found him.

 

The next time I talked to him he made it a point of telling me that he had bought a gun. “Big fucking deal!” I thought and said, “that is nice, so?” That was his threat to me to not interfere. I was not impressed. I’m a combat veteran and I have seen this kid shoot. He couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn with a blunderbuss. Hell, he couldn’t hit a beer can with a Ruger Model 77 in .223 with a scope at 50 yards. The only thing that I pray is that it keeps my daughter and granddaughter safe, because he is a violent bastard, is that he knows I will hunt him down to the ends of the earth. He would never hear the shot.

 

Now the abusive bastard keeps her cowed with the threat of taking her child from her. Do as he demands, or he takes the baby and leaves forever. I hope this nightmare ends soon.

 

You know abuse from a neighbor’s viewpoint. Now you know it from a father’s.

[des1re06 200]

If we knew beforehand, we definitely wouldn't play with them. Sadly, we've met several couples who fall into this category. We usually find out after the fact, because people tend to be on their best behavior when they first meet you.

 

I would let the lady know that counseling helped me get out of a bad relationship and I'm a better person for it. Therapy is available, in this country, for everyone no matter what your financial circumstances are.

 

Then we'd move on to happier couples.

[Additude 457]

I read that thread also and although he said she said, we have no idea what kind of "Abuse" there is or for that matter if there really is any abuse.

 

My point is some people think that if you don't talk to them frequently or ignore them then that's abusive. Apparently on the other side of the scale, there are physically battered people that do not consider that abusive.

 

So to answer your question, first I'd define the term in that other persons words and feelings before making any judgment on what the "abuse" was.

 

If it was physical abuse I'd be willing to tell the cops, but I'm not sure that's the best approach as it could lead to more severe physical abuse.

 

If it was on the other end of the scale I'd encourage the partner to be independant and not to do it if they don't want to.

 

No one should be forced to do anything against their will.

 

But I feel ultimately, it's that other persons decision to make one way or the other.

[ownerspet 506]

I don't know what I could do other than refuse to play with them, because I feel like I would be contributing to their bad habit... probably not a good way to phrase it "bad habit." However, I've always felt like if it is a behavior that I don't approve of, then I definitly should not encourage the behavior. It's sort of like not buying cigarettes for a smoker.

 

The real question in my head at that point would be: If I don't approve of the behavior, why would I give them the opportunity/motivation to engage in the behavior?

 

Not that there are not other opportunities for them, and I'm probably being overly optimistic. But, I tend to hope that due to this, they get turned down enough to the point where the abuser gives up, and the abused decides to take a stand and remove her/himself from the situation.

[bicuriocpl 90]

I agree with Lustylearning, give her the abilityto rescue herself and make an excuse and get out of there. My ex wife was the abusive half ( she once swung a metal mop handle at my head) and had I know there were places for me to go I might have gone there. On the other hand, one does become brainwashed into believing that if I could just do what she wanted it would be all right. Its a tough call either way you go, you definately don't want to endanger her, but you also don't want to assist the abuse.

[Additude 457]

I would also like to add that refusing to play with them could lead to further abusive behavoir on his part, because now the abuser is going to wonder, "What did the abused do or say" to cause this couple not to want to play with them/him...which could lead to more abusive behavoir on his part.

 

So if that's your purpose, then be careful how you format it.

[Deptydog 15]

It's hard to say what I would do. I have no tolerance of abusive behavior. And I would have to wonder if my wife was safe with him, so we probably wouldn't play. If he were to become abusive in front of me, it would take bloodhounds to find the pieces of the body, ya know what I mean?

 

I guess I would be as supportive to the woman as I could, and offer her an avenue to get professional and legal help. But if she refused, then there's not a lot you can do. After all, she's an adult and can make her own decisions.

 

So, I guess I've pretty much repeated what everyone else has said here, huh?

[Tia Vampire 167]

I know we would not swing with them. If she is being forced to do something she is not comfortable with, then she is not going to enjoy it. We like being with couples that everyone agrees to a passionate night of sex. We usually talk to the couple to find out what they are into and bounderies. There must be some kind of agreement before ever getting started.

[theboy 175]

What would you do if a wife told you she was forced to swing? I feel confident that most would not play with that couple, but I guess not so much what would you do, but how would you handle it?

 

I would bring my wife aside and talk to her, let her know what's going on. I have no problem doing that, we're in this as a 'team'. She wouldn't do anything with an abuser either, so we'd probably simply say that things weren't working out and we hope that they find whatever they're looking for.

 

I'd probably let our friends, if there are any around, know what's up as well, to protect them.

[robnsusan60 43]

We, wife and I, met a couple for coffee after initial contact to get acquainted and decide if we wanted to move to the next level, full swing. From the very first few minutes it was obvious it wasn't going to happen. I initiated the 'no go' signal, unusual because I was always up for anything she wanted to do. This guy corrected everything his wife said, or rolled his eyes in disdain at almost every remark. She was so cowed and subdued by him I couldn't stand it. There wasn't even a question he'd be with my wife, it just wasn't going to be. That woman still haunts me, I don't know what I could have done but I felt so helpless because I did nothing. So I don't know if she was there of her own free will but I don't think so. I know there are degrees of abuse, but I'm not comfortable with even the slightest degree.

[intuition897 2,179]

robnsusan, that sounds much like the very first couple we ever met.

 

I don't know that he was as overbearing as that, but I don't doubt that he was a selfish classless bastard who had little to no respect for his wife. He just wanted to get fucked by someone other than his wife, and he couldn't care less how things turned out for her. She actually said, "If he's going to cheat, he may as well bring it home and let me have some fun too, right?" As this was our very first experience meeting another couple (obviously hadn't fine-tuned our bullshitometer yet) we had no idea how important it was to us that the other couple was in a good and healthy relationship. It was an eye-opener.

[Pepper & Drew 384]

She actually said, "If he's going to cheat, he may as well bring it home and let me have some fun too, right?"

 

Holy crapola, Batman! That would have scared us right out of swinging if that had been our first experience.

 

Thankfully, we've never encountered anything like that, but if we had, we'd be out of there in a New York minute. As far as what we'd do to intervene, I wouldn't want to get involved. If the woman asked for help, we'd help, but otherwise, we're not getting in it. As bad as it may sound, we're not swinging to invite other people's domestic situations into our lives.

 

Pepper

[Unicornwife 1]

I wonder how many women have been coerced, pressured, pushed not only by their partners but also by the male half of the other couple. Or even straight up assaulted or even been forced upon? My educated estimate would be a pretty high percentage. Under the influence of alcohol or pharmaceuticals or not.  I’ve been in the lifestyle many years— so much has happened that I never would have dreamed of allowing (or just happening) 

[lcmim 1,082]

Our reaction would depend entirely on the situation, what "abuse" entailed in the particular case, and our ability to do anything at all.

 

I have on a few occasions taken the wife of the other couple for a walk and asked outright if she was into this, or if there were other things going on.

 

 The question covers a pretty wide spectrum from broken bones and threats to kill, to something not much more than being an uncivil jerk.

 

I have known one or two of the former, both were offered what aid they would accept.

 

I have known quite a few of the latter, essentially unhappy couplings in which neither was to the point of calling it quits. Those get a sympathetic ear.

 

ONCE I had to go outside ax handle in hand to scare off a guy who was clearly intent on evil. I did not know them but it was too obvious to ignore.

 

 As far as swinging goes in any of the above?There would not be any.

[PeterJ 948]

59 minutes ago, lcmim said:

"ONCE I had to go outside axe handle in hand to scare off a guy who was clearly intent on evil. I did not know them but it was too obvious to ignore."

 

Wow! 😳🙄 lcmim, that must have been an interesting scene…

[lcmim 1,082]

Dragging screaming woman by hair down our alley.

[lcmim 1,082]

That was quite a while back for me too I'm 71 now. I still have my ax handle though. I hope I am never confronted with that kind of situation again. 

I'm glad your cop showed up expeditiously. Ours took about 2 hours. That's after my wife called up  911 as I was running out the door. There's a woman screaming and my husband just ran out with a club in his hand.

 

 

[TeamCalgary 168]

We are going to put on skis and head down that slippery slope. 

 

The situation described in this thread is a fairly clear one, but what about the variants of this?

 

We have met couples where the wife, when asked how she deals with men that don't even attempt to please her, will say, "I just put up with it" or "I just tolerate it". 

 

Or there are the couples that one of them is clearly into the prospect and one is clearly much less enthused. 

 

These type of situations (in addition to the one posed) make us very uncomfortable and we usually find ourselves looking for the door. 

[Unicornwife 1]

Yes, so many situations where the men (not just single men either) see this as a way to get what they’ve been wanting to try and not allowed or just to fully make the experience about their own enjoyment and not have to concern themselves with her pleasure or experience.  Many times I feel single men see it as basically a “lazy way to get laid without any effort of dating”.  Many couples are in it to enhance the experience for both of them, but sometimes even that has a selfish angle. I’ve been in multiple situations where the man has encouraged his wife to participate and his main goal is to make sure SHE (meaning HIS wife) is pleased at all costs so that he can hope she will be agreeable to do it again. So ultimately it comes around again to making sure he is able to fulfill what he hopes to accomplish.

[Twilighttap 168]

This thread is an older one but wanted to add. We’re not psychologists and don’t get into the middle of couple dynamics. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. They may be having the erotic time of their lives. Or unhappy. We wouldn’t know.  We do avoid drama or any situations we don’t enjoy. 
 

If an assault took place in front of us, yes we’d dial 911.  But we don’t do counseling. 

[enhancer 1,585]

We won’t even consider playing with a couple unless it is very clear that the woman is very on board and very interested!  Women are the top when it comes to this lifestyle.  They hold all the power if they choose to and they should.  Any man who is with a strong sexually confident woman should consider themselves lucky.  I know I do.  A man without a woman in this lifestyle is at the bottom.  That alone should make it clear who has the power.  
 

If we meet a couple where the man was being abusive to the woman in any way I damn sure would say something to him and tell her she can do better.  If he wants to try and bully me he can go right ahead, because I am not someone who can be pushed around and would have no issue putting him in his place even if that place is on the ground. I am a nice respectful guy unless you are disrespectful to people that can’t or don’t protect themselves in which case a trigger goes off and I am not so nice anymore. I have zero tolerance for alpha bullshit cavemen and there is no place for them in the world today.

[marla&brian 48]

During my first marriage after a couple years things were not going well. My then husband talked me into swapping a couple of times. I felt uncomfortable and never was able to relax and enjoy it. I kept telling myself that if I went along with it, it might help the marriage . Of course it didn't. I think the main reason he wanted to swap was he wanted to fuck other women and really didn't care about my needs. Soon after that I found out he was having an affair with a coworker and we  divorced.

 

I was able to have some fun after the divorce, but part of me wonders if I swung a bit just to get back at him in some strange way. Though once divorced I was able to relax and enjoy my sexual encounters.

[lcmim 1,082]

We usually manage to have one on one conversations with both parties before anything gets moving. If one of us has picked up on anything we can ask outright while on a 15 minute walk.

 

If something surfaced we would find a reason to not get into bed. It doesn't mean that we would drop them , but it does mean that something needs to get settled first.

 

If it was out and out abuse, we would probably suggest to the victim, in private, that they do have alternatives.

[couplers 4,640]

10 hours ago, marla&brian said:

once divorced I was able to relax and enjoy my sexual encounters.

I admire your strength and ability to sort things out in your best interests.  

[marla&brian 48]

2 hours ago, couplers said:

I admire your strength and ability to sort things out in your best interests.  

Part of me thinks I went into slut mode as a way of getting back at him. That and I figured since I was single I should have some "me time" or, what's the term people use today, "self care".

 

Not to get to deep but being married now, I think my reluctance to get back into the LS stems from not enjoying and being some what forced the first time. Where as when I was single I did what I wanted to do. Just afraid being married might (in my mind anyways) make things more complicated.

 

Sorry I'm going off on a tangent.....

[couplers 4,640]

22 hours ago, marla&brian said:

Part of me thinks I went into slut mode as a way of getting back at him. That and I figured since I was single I should have some "me time" or, what's the term people use today, "self care".

Sometimes actions can have mixed motivations.  But having sex on your terms, is never bad.  Do you think having fun on your terms actually had an effect on your ex?

 

22 hours ago, marla&brian said:

I think my reluctance to get back into the LS stems from not enjoying and being some what forced the first time. Where as when I was single I did what I wanted to do. Just afraid being married might (in my mind anyways) make things more complicated.

Have you and your husband discussed it?  Having the right partner is everything, and it seems that you have found him.

[lcmim 1,082]

Couplers is spot on. 

Men, like women, are, all different.

Your ex let you down. The right man wouldn't.

 

 When it works, spouses both open up the world for each other and have each others backs if things go awry.

 

 Discuss this all with him.

[marla&brian 48]

1 hour ago, couplers said:

Sometimes actions can have mixed motivations.  But having sex on your terms, is never bad.  Do you think having fun on your terms actually had an effect on your ex?

 

Have you and your husband discussed it?  Having the right partner is everything, and it seems that you have found him.

It's a work in progress. I recently started seeing a therapist, just to help me understand why I react the way I do in certain situations, and to work out some other things. Maybe I'll be able to swing again once I work some of my own stuff out.....only time will tell.

 

Brian was glad I was honest and opened up about my past. As he is always reminding me to "just slow down and enjoy the things you want to enjoy". He's made it clear that if having sex with others would make me happy he is ok with it. Side note if one side gets to play it's only fair the other side does as well. I've joked that I should give him a hall pass, but he knows at this point it time that's probably not a good thing.

 

Once again I'm rambling/stream of conscious writing....lol

[couplers 4,640]

20 hours ago, marla&brian said:

Maybe I'll be able to swing again once I work some of my own stuff out.....only time will tell.

 

Brian was glad I was honest and opened up about my past. As he is always reminding me to "just slow down and enjoy the things you want to enjoy". He's made it clear that if having sex with others would make me happy he is ok with it

Your husband sounds as wonderful as mine. My husband was and is totally open to me exploring and enjoying my sexuality without expecting anything in return. Have a great journey.

 

20 hours ago, marla&brian said:

if one side gets to play it's only fair the other side does as well. I've joked that I should give him a hall pass, but he knows at this point it time that's probably not a good thing.

I have found that being symmetric in a couple’s sexual freedoms is not necessary and not necessarily a good thing. Our journey began with married me having an on-going boyfriend (my ex-fiancé, we 
were/are still in love) and once, a fling with another guy. My husband was totally supported of my involvement while he remained monogamous with me, as did my ex-fiancé. (I kept them both satisfied and was a busy woman.) Eventually and suddenly, I overcame my jealousy, insecurity, whatever and 
arranged for my husband to have sexual relationships with other women. It all worked out well for all of us. (There are more detailed versions of this development in earlier posts.)

 

20 hours ago, marla&brian said:

Once again I'm rambling/stream of conscious writing.

Your consciousness is a wonderful stream.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by couplers