Is swinging the ugly stepchild of alternative lifestyles?

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Ok, so I was on another site and someone mentioned something about how they have an open marriage, etc. I posted to them that they should check this place out. His reply back to me was that basically he was familiar with those swinger sites and they were nothing but a meat market and it was just one step up from a glory hole. WTF!?

 

I know we've discussed this before how quite often those in the BDSM community have similar feelings about swingers... and I can understand that a little better since most hardcore BDSMers don't involve sex in their BDSM play. But, so people in open marriages really think they are that different from swingers? I can even understand poly people knowing they are different... poly is practically monogamy with multiple people (and a lot of swingers come pretty close to that without the same level of emotions). Do other alternative lifestylers really look at swingers as a group and think we are just running up to strangers, unzipping their pants, and sticking their cocks in our mouths/pussies/etc?

[vanillaknot 99]

As a couple whose life is enveloped by BDSM and who got to swinging itself comparatively recently (which is none too recent anyhow, we've been around a long while), we have to disagree that BDSM-oriented folk don't include sex in their BDSM play. Some folks consider BDSM to be foreplay on the way to sex, some consider sex to be foreplay on the way to BDSM, others make no distinction to speak of (this last version is pretty much ours).

 

One reason for such a misimpression is that not-just-private-in-a-friend's-home sorts of BDSM parties often restrict the extent of intimacy ("no penetration") because of legal necessities or just the social environment -- observe that at big BDSM events such as Black Rose's annual convention, there is a very strict no-sex rule enforced. At the local munch's occasional parties, the same rule is enforced because of the requirements of our usual hosting space's owners.

 

I don't perceive such a distinction otherwise.

[VegasLee 1,486]

It is not just people in open marriages that feel this way. There are people in all walks of life that feel this way about swingers or anyone that is different.

 

Most of the time it involves ignorance of the a different lifestyle, lack of respect to allow others to live their life as they see fit and prejudices towards others.

 

Many nudists feel Swingers are evil. I have been told "God meant for us to be nude but does not mean for us to have sex with others." Yet there is nudists that are Swingers and Swingers that are nudists.

 

These attitude problems involve most everyone though. We have had other Swingers tell us we are not swingers because we party with singles or that we are not swingers because Laura is no Bi! They looked down on us for the way we lead our life. I had another club owner tell me that our place was nothing more then a "whore house" because singles where allowed to come there. That a Swinger Club would ONLY allow married couples, no one else. (His "club" is out of business now btw.)

 

People condemn things they do not know about or not comfortable with. That is human nature. It is done to us by people outside of the lifestyle and people within the lifestyle will condemn other lifestyles because they are not comfortable with them.

 

I personally do not feel our lifestyle is the ugly stepchild of anything. We are what we are and as long as you can accept your life and lifestyle then that is all that matters. If we are so concerned about what others think of us then we need to fall in step with the "normal" and live our life like they do.

[sweet_tna 680]

Sigh. Can't we all just get along? (shrug)

[VegasLee 1,486]

Sigh. Can't we all just get along? (shrug)

 

If we were all robots that acted the same way and had the same exact opinions then yes, everyone would get along 100% of the time.

 

That would make for an interesting world.

[two42lovers 273]

Having trouble figuring out what you mean by open marriage. Usually it means the whole spectrum of committed but non-monogamous relationships from swing to poly (according to Wikipedia.) Apparently the term got started in the 1970's...

[tscpl 93]

If we where all robots that acted the same way and had the same exact opinions then yes, everyone would get along 100% of the time.

 

That would make for an interesting world.

 

We might not all be robots but we can still strive to be tolerant of each others sexuality without an overemphasis on tiny differences/preferences which might exist from time to time.

[shymxcpl 71]

This sure is an interesting topic. Until recently I didn't much see a difference between open marriage couple and swingers, but my wife has repeatedly refused to be categorized as a swinger just because of the stigma that the word carries, even though we "quack like ducks".

 

I can't understand why people in some alternative lifestyle, who are supposed to be tolerant and open minded, would conjure up such negative ideas. Maybe it was a bad experience at a swingers club. One rotten apple will always give us all a bad rep. (and there are always rotten apples at clubs).

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Having trouble figuring out what you mean by open marriage. Usually it means the whole spectrum of committed but non-monogamous relationships from swing to poly (according to Wikipedia.) Apparently the term got started in the 1970's...

 

I agree as I have always included open marriage as a type of swinging. In this particular situation. The guy commented that he and his wife (I assume they are married) are in an open marriage /relationship (I can't remember the exact term he used) in that they are allowed to seek out outside whatever. Evidently, neither of them has taken advantage of it to this point, but the point was that they did not restrict themselves to just each other.

 

I typically view open-marriage as a type of swinging, and feel that that is basically what I had with my ex-husband. While we did swing together on occasion we were both also free to find others on our own and meet with them one on one without the other having to give "approval".

 

 

Many nudists feel Swingers are evil. I have been told "God meant for us to be nude but does not mean for us to have sex with others." Yet there is nudists that are Swingers and Swingers that are nudists.

 

This reminds me of something else I read recently. We got a message from a group we are members of on SLS and they had mentioned they were setting up a group trip to a nudist camp. BUT, they pointed out in the email that this particular nudist came DID NOT allow swingers, and the owner had been known to ban people for life if he so much as found out that they were swingers.... yet lots of swingers go to this place (supposedly). I read that and thought WTF? Why would you even put yourself in that position? I realize there is overlap, and if you are a nudist you probably go to some nudist places that don't allow swinging... but we are talking about a swinging group planning a trip to a nudist resort that is ANTI-swinging. HMM??

[50sLady 109]

It has always amazed me that the vanilla world views swingers as worse than cheaters. The fact that we have sex with others WITH our partner's knowledge and usually right in front of them is somehow more immoral than having sex with others without our partner's knowledge. It makes no sense to me.

 

I think the real problem vanillas have with swinging is the public sex aspect of our lifestyle. Cheaters do it in private, so no one sees it. Out of sight, out of mind. It is not in anyone's face.

 

Swinging has the reputation of public sex, hence the references to orgies, glory holes, meat markets, and the belief that swingers will fuck anyone who comes into their line of vision.

 

The other alternate lifestyles, such as BDSM or Nudist, would seem to be cousins of swinging, but many in those communities do not have public sex as part of the equation. They would be the ones who think so badly of swinging.

 

Just thinking out loud

[sweet_tna 680]

We might not all be robots but we can still strive to be tolerant of each others sexuality without an overemphasis on tiny differences/preferences which might exist from time to time.

 

My point exactly. But as Vegas Lee deftly pointed out, it's just not gonna' happen in this crazy-mixed-up world in which we live. Guess we can't have our cake (tolerance of differences) and eat it, too (the excitement of those differences).

[geminigrey 45]

Okay, now I feel bad. I'm actually the person in question, and I meant my original reply mostly tongue in cheek. (Especially the bit about being better than an old fashioned glory hole.)

 

My original commentary, btw:

"Heh...there's all kinds of boards/magazines/etc for swingers. Those meat markets always struck me as a little impersonal, but at least they're a step up from an old-fashioned glory hole. ;)"

 

See I did come and check out the page, Julie! Even if it was after running my big fat mouth. *grins* I'm good at that, and I'll apologize to everybody here for pre-judging without looking first.

 

I definitely don't have a problem with swingers, though I admit for some reason the word has a negative connotation in my mind. (Dunno exactly why, media I guess) But the idea that I'm putting down a whole community of folks without even knowing them is not cool, and I should know better.

 

Ummm...anywho...I'm here and looking and quite red in embarrassment. I'm sure you guys will see me posting here and there, feel free to give me the reaming I deserve.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

Do other alternative lifestylers really look at swingers as a group and think we are just running up to strangers, unzipping their pants and sticking their cocks in our mouths/pussies/etc?

 

I can't understand why people in some alternative lifestyle, who are supposed to be tolerant and open minded, would conjure up such negative ideas. Maybe it was a bad experience at a swingers club. One rotten apple will always give us all a bad rep. (and there are always rotten apples at clubs).

The notion that swingers (or any people considered part of an "alternative Lifestyle) are any more tolerant and open minded than vanilla folks is a myth.

 

When I stepped into the world of swinging I immediately thought I was becoming part of a bonded group, a group who - at it's core - had an acceptance and openness unlike anything I had experienced in the vanilla world I'd been living.

 

Not so.

 

I realized this within a year after all my reading in forums, not only at the Swingers Board but in other forums on the ad sites we belonged to.

 

With people of every alternative lifestyle you will find they have as many close-minded views, varying opinions, fears, and prejudices as any vanilla out there.

[sexcupid 809]

Do other alternative lifestylers really look at swingers as a group and think we are just running up to strangers, unzipping their pants and sticking their cocks in our mouths/pussies/etc?

 

That's not how we're supposed to do it?

 

Seriously, I think it was pretty stand up of geminigrey to register and post...welcome to the board! I'm sure you'll learn quite a bit here, there is very good information to be had.

 

I agree with other posters that it is more the aspect that it is out in the open and not 'sneaky' that has most non-swingers out there in a tizzy. But as geminigrey also pointed out..."open marriage/relationship" sounds much more acceptable to most people than "swinger"...it's just semantics really. Just like a pissing match I got into on another thread....people that prefer to think of themselves as swingers and play without their partners knowledge vs. calling themselves a cheater. I think it's a bit of a way to rationalize a behavior to make it seem morally acceptable to the person rationalizing it.

[D&L 30]

Great topic!

 

It seems like "Swingers" has somehow become a bad word. Honestly, we usually refer to it as "playing" even with each other. I'm not sure how that has happened, it just did.

 

We have done a bit of the open marriage thing, and have enjoyed it. We still called it playing. We like to play with others at the same time and place too. As Vegas Lee often says, swinging is about consensual sex with others. (In my opinion, Vegas Lee usually hits the nail right on the head).

 

I really don't consider it a lifestyle, just a fun thing we do sometimes. Maybe we put too much stock in terms. Who cares what we call whatever we do. Obviously some others do.

 

Should we come up with a more palatable name for it?

 

Any suggestions?

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

See I did come and check out the page, Julie! Even if it was after running my big fat mouth. *grins* I'm good at that, and I'll apologize to everybody here for pre-judging without looking first.

 

 

Ok, so I'm eating my words now... and perhaps my feet. But, your comment did give me good fodder for posting. I'm really glad you decided to stop by and check things out.

 

I've run into some negative attitude on LJ from others exhibiting basically the same attitudes I posted about here... I don't "come out of the closet" too often on there, but I honestly did think this site might be of interest to you considering what you had posted about and hopefully you will find it to be.

[geminigrey 45]

Nah, no eating of words. I did have a double-blink when I read the original post, and went...heeeeyyy...but I'll take any kind of attention I can get. What was it, the only thing worse than people talking about you is people not talking about you at all? *grins*

 

And I do think that the 'niche' groups are almost more prejudicial than 'vanilla'. I've met plenty of BDSM 'lifestylers' who look down on the 'weekend warriors', gays that looked down on 'breeders', etc etc. I don't know what it is, exactly, I think some people want their flavor of ice cream to be the bar non 100% accepted as best and only flavor

[ncmd_couple 597]

Many of us had to find our own way and do what we wanted to do. We each had to find our own path in life depending on what our desires were. When we started this I called it an “open” relationship. We found together that it is open, but that we wanted to be both comfortable with it. “Swinger” allow us that freedom to choose what is best for us. It is the big tent that allows many others with preferences to participate at what makes them comfortable. It allows us to be in control of what we want to, or don’t want to do. Labels and stereotypes are not good for any of us. Whether or not we are a single, married, about to get married (which we will be doing next weekend, and I’m damn happy about that) or in a committed relationship, it is our open choice to live our lives, together, or as individuals that matters.

[tncinmd 55]

It's sad when society judges what consenting adults do as a perversion. But, it's downright hilarious when a person practicing one 'perversion' gets preachy about someone else's 'perversion'.