Have we been 'had'?

[JustMrJ 178]

So, my wife and I had our first meet and greet with couple set for this evening at a restaurant.

 

We will most likely be politely declining 'their' company in the future. But before that decision is 'final', I'd like to relay our story and question...

 

The first thing that struck me as odd, was that the guy showed up and when we asked about his wife/gf, he said she flew out to Beijing today or yesterday.

 

Would have been nice for him to have inform us of that BEFORE we had set the 'date' or even when I had called earlier in the day to let him know the reservations were set and would we be seeing them tonight. ('Yes' was the answer.)

 

Second this was originally, at most, a heavy petting date. Conversation was our main focus. It almost went beyond that... here's the way it went down.

 

We kind of clicked with him at first and my wife and I were feeling very comfortable with David during dinner. He was VERY focused on sex and the lifestyle, clubs, parties, etc. Not really surprising considering the reason for the meeting in the first place.

 

As the evening wore on he was flirting and generally playing and caressing my wife, which didn't bother me in the least. I was enjoying her getting excited by another man.

 

Later he suggested we go to our place to get to the heavy petting part if we were all willing. We made it clear that there was to be no intercourse by him. Might not even be any by me as I wasn't quite ready to 'perform' in front of others.

 

As we all began having fun, he seemed to want things a certain way and seemed less and less about pleasing my wife and doing just what she wanted. When it was about at it's hottest, he looked like he was getting ready to bareback my wife while I was working the top areas. I noticed and said 'we don't play there tonight' and he stopped saying he wouldn't and went back to licking and petting. (We purposely didn't bring condoms as my wife and I had agreed to this 'limit' earlier.)

 

More and more it became about what he wanted and soon we had to slow it down and wind down for the evening.

 

As I was cleaning up and taking care of nature, my wife tells me that she had asked about "Pat" his wife/gf and would we be meeting her next time. She had asked him this as she felt it was a bit unfair to me for it to be just him and me with her. He danced around it and mentioned coming back over himself, but not anything about "Pat".

 

I have a two seater and we had left it at the restaurant. When he was driving me back to my car, I (not knowing my wife asked) mentioned it would have been more comfortable for me and my wife if I had a playmate too as I didn't want the two of us guys on my wife all the time. He kind of avoided a direct answer about bringing "Pat" or another of his 'swinging partners', but did talk about bringing condoms 'next time' and me going first, then him on my wife.

 

Generally, as I thought more about it, I got the feeling he was a single male just looking to 'work' on some newbies. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

So I pose the question to all of you... have we been "had"?

[interested-05 135]

he was either a single guy or married and cheating on Pat. didnt give a hoot about you, your wife or any one except himself.

A USER pure and simple. not worth wasting time with.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I'd say trust your instinct. It's either a single guy straight up or at best a married cheater using his wife as bait.

 

I'd dare say that if you were to meet him again there would again be now wife and some late excuse as to why and again he would push his agenda. Move on, find better playmates and report him to SLS.

[JustMrJ 178]

interested-05 & JustAskJulie,

 

Thanks for the comments. I believe I will go with my gut.

 

So, I guess I should be straight up with him and just say 'no' next time and no need for explanation? or should I send him an e-mail saying we both enjoyed his company, but I don't think we completely 'clicked' as playmates?

 

Thanks in advance.

[fun4Ds 1,097]

I think you were had. I'm really sorry this happened to you and Mrs.J

 

We were had once with a far worse outcome. I was sitting here this morning wondering what to say and would like to just leave it at that.

 

It sucks feeling duped by someone. We found it was best to find closure and move foward. I suppose you could try to at least talk to pat his wife/girlfriend on the phone. But, some people in this world can find some pretty extream and clever ways of fooling others. I know hind sight is 20/20 but I would just tell them No thanks and move foward. We learn as we go. What we know now, there are good times and good people in this world.

 

Like julie said, report them as possible fakes. We did when it happened to us and they had other reports as well on swappernet. They were booted from the site.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

JustMrJ~

 

It was apparent to you from the beginning of the evening that this meeting didn't start right, yet, you continued through the night with D and even took him back to your home where you engaged in light play. And you did this without D's wife there - he was "playing" as a single guy and you agreed to it.

 

You got "had" but so did D. You took D's bait and said yes to nearly everything he was going for - you led him to believe he was going to get your wife, and he did get a little. Heck, your profile says if things click you'll play, and obviously things were clicking that evening or you wouldn't have brought this guy back to your home.

 

I took a look at your profile and you have set yourself up to be a target of this kind of game - "couple profile but only the male shows for a first meet" (see this thread on the subject) and you will probably get approached by guys like this again. You don't seem to want anything to do with newbies like yourself and experienced game players and cons just love to pounce on newbies who want only experienced swingers to show them the way.

 

You can learn a ton from this experience. Remember to look as the whole picture, not just the other guy, but yourselves as well, and how you played a role in the outcome.

[tittietwister 126]

You were definitely had but look at the positive side. No harm was done and you've learned about the games some swingers play. Now you will be better able to filter your potential playmates.

 

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

[Chicup 41]

We would have ended it at the lame excuse for a missing wife/gf.

 

Even if true, its not polite to not mention she wouldn't be there.

 

Finally always talk with the female half PRIOR to meeting. Gets rid of just about all the fakes, sadly not the flakes though

[ownerspet 506]

I'm with twister in that you'll definitly judge the situation better next time. Take it as learning experience, and move forward.

 

And as mentioned in the thread, I would definitly report him, because think about it if they had been reported enough times before you, you and your wife may not have ever been approached by him.

 

But contacting him to even respond to a fake in any lifestyle is probably not worth your time.

 

[JustMrJ 178]

LikeMinds321,

 

I appreciate your brutal honesty and after re-reading the profile, you are bang on.

 

I have 'adjusted' the profile and I think it's a bit more specific. We would love some new reviews and feedback on it.

 

You and tittietwister are also correct on the fact that we have learned a ton and I believe we will know MUCH better what to look for and how to deal with future 'meets and greets'.

 

Thank you all for the love and support.

 

*HUGS*

[des1re06 200]

Cheaters are cheaters and don't belong in the lifestyle. Swinging is about being open and sharing with your mate.

 

They should be reported. It's against the rules of our lifestyle, and pisses me off when these posers cause problems for us (real couples).

 

Unfortunately, this guy knows where you live, so give it some time and then report.

 

Mr. & Mrs. D

[gnb4u 15]

Yes you were had hook, line and sinker. A couple things to come away with

 

- Don't go into any situation with the overriding expectation to play. Always go into any situation with the flexibility to play if the stars and moon all line up but also be ready, willing and able to just get up and walk away if anything isn't right as well.

 

- If something seems fishy, it probably is.

 

- Don't trust anything anyone says. Look at their actions and be in touch with how you feel. If you get the creeps, it is for a reason.

 

- Impress upon your wife to trust her intuitions and you have faith in her intuition as well. Women have a lot more experience with guys trying to scam their way into her pants than you have. If she indicates something doesn't seem right BELIEVE HER!! Men's higher reasoning centers in their brains get knocked out by hormones pretty fast and women's don't so if she gets a bad feeling THAT'S YOUR SIGN!! Don't try and explain it away or rationalize with her, just get out of there. It will reduce your batting average a lot but it will also keep you off the drama bus and possibly keep you out of a shallow grave under someone's crawlspace.

 

- Stay as sober as possible and stay away from those who aren't. Very rarely does anything truly bad happen when all parties are stone-cold sober.

 

- Adopt a 'one-strike you're out' policy when it comes to dishonesty or deception. If someone lies to you or tries to deceive you or misrepresent themselves in the slightest walk away and don't look back.

 

- Read as much as you can on this and other forums and research the lifestyle as much as you can in general. The more knowledgeable you are about what goes on out there the better equipped you will be to deal with situations that may arise. I don't mean to get down on you but single guys and cheaters posing as a couple and then showing up saying that their partner couldn't make it at the last minute is the oldest trick in the book and no one should fall for that. Empower yourself by learning all you can.

 

And finally I would also like to add that clubs are often a safer a more efficient means of meeting people than online. If you are physically in a club and you meet a real flesh and blood couple at that place and time you know that both parties at least exist. You will get to know people a lot more efficiently in real live interaction than you ever will by chatting back and forth on the internet.

[NumbskullsX2 24]

JustMrJ said:

So I pose the question to all of you... have we been "had"

No, you weren't "had"

 

When you first met, it was obvious that his "wife" wasn't going to be a part of the action. You could have called it off right there, but you proceeded anyway. Then, by your own admission, you "clicked with him," and were comfortable enough with him to "invite him back to your place," where you "enjoyed you wife getting excited by another man."

 

You might be having "morning-after regrets" but I don't see where this guy twisted your arm or held a gun to your head to do any of this. DO make sure you call him and thank him profusely for the wonderful time he showed your wife last night.

 

It's the "Swinger Thing" to do.

[sexcupid 809]

Mr J,

 

I think y'all have been had. Many other posters have stated it well, we too would just walk away with a lesson learned.

 

While single males posing as a couple irk me to no end (along with the married 'single' male profiles)...I know they do it to turn up on more searches/matches. Of course the profile is made more convincing by the fact the guy is attractive, and there are pictures of a woman on there as well.

 

One of our first contacts in the lifestyle was from Austin. We were going up there and offered to meet up in a pub just for drinks and to meet. He was all gung ho up to this point...then stated he wasn't feeling well and didn't want to get out in the yucky weather, etc. We still heard from him sporadically...but I guess after being called out a few times...the couples profile now reads "I'm single now"...my only problem is the ex-wife/girlfriend's pictures that he still has on the profile. And why didn't they just create a singles profile? Again, being blocked or not showing up on as many searches. Drives me nuts.

 

The fact that the dude showed up without the wife, didn't tell you earlier in the day when you contacted him about dinner reservations, and then was wishy-washy about her again after playtime...too many red flags on the field for my liking.

[WeMayTryIt 120]

WeMayTryIt....I don't think he was posting the profile name because the experience was necessarily bad (just not what they had originally agreed to)...but I think it was meant more for reference material so that we can see what they had seen when setting up their meeting.

Possibly, but there are more tactful ways of doing this, e.g. posting an excerpt of the profile, PMing someone interested in viewing the profile (still a bit unscrupulous in my book). But the fact that it was done the way it was, coupled with the fact that the OP felt the need to post the guy's name, makes me lean toward something less innocent. Maybe not. In either case, it's still an outrageous precedent to set.

[imsherona2 15]

My opinion, after reading the original post and the replys...is all 3 of you are to blame for the evening! First of all, we would have NEVER even gone through with the meet and greet knowing the female half of the "couple" was not going to show, and if HE showed up (like he did) without her, we would have cancelled right then and rescheduled when ALL could be there.

 

Our rule of thumb is this: if it's a couple we are meeting for the 1st time, the two women speak over the phone, plan on meeting for coffee or lunch or whatever, then if all goes well, we then plan a meet and greet for all parties involved and go from there. It works for us and so far, no mishaps!!

 

I hope you have learned a lot from all the replys and what to do or not to do in the future. Just because you two are newbies doesn't mean you have to be "had" and you now know what to look for i.e. red flags!!

 

Here's hoping your next encounter is everything you two want it to be and have fun!!

[Pensacolapair 394]

We would have ended it at the lame excuse for a missing wife/gf.

 

Even if true, its not polite to not mention she wouldn't be there.

 

Finally always talk with the female half PRIOR to meeting. Gets rid of just about all the fakes, sadly not the flakes though

 

We agree totally!

 

To the OP, all is not lost -- you have been given something to aid in the construction of that healthy layer of cynicism that is unfortunatly a valuble tool in the Lifestyle! It's kinda like a helmet to a soldier - an uncomfortable piece of gear you wish you didn't have to wear..right up until the time it stops a big 'ole piece of shrapnel!

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

 I have to ask, JustMrJ, what was it that made you go far enough to agree to meet this guy? How much interaction took place online before you agreed to meet? And after he showed up alone, why did you continue the evening? and invite him home with you?

[JustMrJ 178]

As to why we would respond to a person with such a profile... I guess the answer to that lies in his personal website and some SLS emails back and fourth. I've been played (obviously), but I will refrain from posting anything further as to this person's personal information or correspondence to us.

 

I think we will simply leave it as a learning experience (mistakes make some of the best after all) and try some clubs for our next 'outing'.

 

I do feel as though both MrsJ and I were a bit eager and he did have a friendly personality. It was after we slowed down our libidos and thought it through later that some things really struck us as wrong.

 

This is all new to us and we don't normally encounter people like this (presuming he is actually a single/cheating male). Gullible I guess would describe us best in this case...

 

“Caveat emptor” follows... we 'bought' it and it wasn't what we thought. Our mistake.

 

One good thing MrsJ and I got out of all this is that we now KNOW that she is up for play and is not the least bit inhibited.

 

So... Does anybody know any good clubs near San Mateo, CA?

[fun4Ds 1,097]

Quote

My opinion, after reading the original post and the replies...is all 3 of you are to blame for the evening!

 

I don't think its necessary for blame on anyone. Mr. J didn't want anything more than our opinions about how to say good buy, basically. He shared their event with us, as good folks, who care enough to offer what we might do in the same circumstances. Hell, I would think we have all had sex with someone we might not want a second time around with. For what ever reasons. At least I know we have been there. And then again we could be wrong about the guy. Not likely, but we could.

 

That's how we go forward. Nothing happened that can't be dealt with in a positive way. I hope for the best also .

 

Quote

First of all, we would have NEVER even gone through with the meet and greet knowing the female half of the "couple" was not going to show, and if HE showed up (like he did) without her, we would have cancelled right then and rescheduled when ALL could be there.

I don't know , I could say that also, knowing what we know now. But we didn't know all about everything when we started. I know we were not only naive when we started, we trusted people..... A little to much perhaps. And lets not forget what our drive was in the beginning.... Sex..... It can be a powerful motive to take the next step.

 

Quote

Our rule of thumb is this: if it's a couple we are meeting for the 1st time, the two women speak over the phone, plan on meeting for coffee or lunch or whatever, then if all goes well, we then plan a meet and greet for all parties involved and go from there. It works for us and so far, no mishaps!!

You took the words write out of my mouth here. Except we have more rules now, than even that... We learned them.... embarrassingly, the hard way.

 

I just have to say we had a couple dupe us as well once. I had a single female try to back door Mrs.fun also. We have had our experiences we learned from all the way around. We learn as we go.

 

Quote

I hope you have learned a lot from all the replies and what to do or not to do in the future. Just because you two are newbies doesn't mean you have to be "had" and you now know what to look for i.e. red flags!!

 

Now I am in total agreement with you. Your speaking my language now

 

Quote

Here's hoping your next encounter is everything you two want it to be and have fun

 

That puts your heart in the right place to me

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

It's easy to let the fun of an experience carry you past your questions and allow you to ignore your internal alarms. It happens to all of us. The key is that you learn from it and that it has allowed you to move forward with some knowledge.

 

It reminds me of our first soft-swap. There were issues but we walked away know more about what we don't want and knowing that we could move forward from there. It's when you let those bad situations get the best of you to the point that you don't move forward that you lose.

[good times 991]

I don't think you were had, nor do I really think anyone can be blamed for anything. Personally, with the benefit of much more experience than you behind us, we wouldn't have agreed to hook up with this couple just based on their profile. That being said, we have found ourselves in similar positions as you.

 

Frankly, I can't say just by what has transpired so far what you should do about him. While I suspect this is a guy cheating on his wife, you never know. What I would do, is I would tell him that you had a good time, and when they are ready to get together with you guys with his wife, let you know. I would emphasize that their will be no more meetings without his wife, under any circumstances. I would also make it clear that even then nothing may happen, because until you meet her in person, you do not yet know if you will click with his wife.

[NumbskullsX2 24]

good times said:

What I would do, is I would tell him that you had a good time, and when they are ready to get together with you guys with his wife, let you know. I would emphasize that their will be no more meetings without his wife, under any circumstances. I would also make it clear that even then nothing may happen, because until you meet her in person, you do not yet know if you will click with his wife.

You're much nicer about it than I would be. I would probably call him up and tell him what great time my wife had, and how she can't stop talking about it even to her friends. I would tell him that one of them would like to join us at our next get together, and hopefully experience his "9 inch cock" up-close and in person. I would ask if he "would mind bringing his video camera?" so we could all have some memories of the wild evening we were planning!

 

Then I would ask him to reserve a really posh hotel room in downtown San Francisco, and to plan to meet us there, and to spend the night. I would suggest one that costs at least $200-$250 per night, as "this other woman we're bringing is definitely high-bred, and won't stay in a cheap hotel." I would of course offer to split the cost with him 50/50, payable to him in cash when we got there.

 

At our agreed upon meeting time, I'd call him at the hotel and make sure he'd checked in to the room. Then I'd explain that we were running a little late, and "would he mind having a couple bottles of Champagne waiting on ice, so we can start the party as soon as we get there?"

 

"Champagne makes the girls giddy" I would explain. "Just leave it on the room tab, and we'll settle up later." I'd tell him we were "on our way," and would be there "in about 20 minutes."

 

Then I wouldn't show up.

 

I wouldn't even answer my phone for an hour or so - long enough for him to be charged for the room AND the Champagne. When I did answer my phone, I'd say -

 

"Sorry, the girls couldn't make it. They had to catch a plane to Beijing or something, so I went home. Enjoy your evening in fag-town with your hundred dollars worth of bubbly and your $250 turn-down mint, asshole!"

 

Yea, payback is a mother-f*&^%r!

[two4youinswva 3,068]

NumbskullsX2: Remind me to never piss you off.

[LFM2 1,482]

NumbskullsX2: Remind me to never piss you off.

 

[two42lovers 273]

I... mentioned it would have been more comfortable for me and my wife if I had a playmate too as I didn't want the two of us guys on my wife all the time. He kind of avoided a direct answer about bringing "Pat" or another of his 'swinging partners'

 

Most of the responders haven't focused on this... sounds like you absolutely knew he was single, and knew he plays alone and as a "play-couple" with various partners? When he showed without a partner, if you had cut the meeting off, it would make sense. (For the majority of couples that would have been the end of it. He didn't bring his partner, and that would be that.)

 

But you knew there was no one else with him, and yet you chose to invite him to your home for (soft?) sex. He doesn't get to come over unless you invite him. The kind of sex he was allowed to have was determined by you - and from what you write it sounds like he submitted to your limits willingly. Interesting you have characterized the situation as him working you. The only thing "working you" was when he showed without his date - in our opinion that was a deal breaker, but it was water under the bridge long before you invited him over to play. After you decided to warm up to the guy anyway, and ultimately invite him over for sex, it seems ironic you would out him here on SB and say he was working you.

[JustMrJ 178]

two42lovers,

 

I guess we are just too naive and trusting for our own good. All the correspondence and conversations with this person up to the point of meeting were portrayed by him as a 'couple'... he and "Pat".

 

Only after we met did he actually clarify that he was actually not married and had several swinging buddies... one of which was "Pat".

 

You are correct on the fact that we should not have let it go any further. Trusting people we are and were easily led by this person. As JustAskJulie stated, we were also worked up prior to the meeting and still had a bit of that 'high' I guess.

 

Looking back on all this and reading all the responses, I guess only we are to blame for letting things go as far as they did. No excuses.

 

Trust us... it will NOT happen again. We learn from our mistakes.

 

Yes, I was out of place to post this person's SLS on here. As I had previously... I apologize for that. That's another thing that will NOT happen again.

[BiloxiCouple 695]

Trust us... it will NOT happen again. We learn from our mistakes.

 

We've all been there. I feel for you.

[velbuzz 17]

chicup had it right. If the plan was for the four of you, you should have known about the change before the dinner. We probably would have left before finishing the first drink.

[NumbskullsX2 24]

JustMrJ-

 

It happens to everybody sooner or later. In fact, I would even say that it happens to everybody every so often, no matter how long they've been doing this. We all meet somebody that turns out to be not what they say they are, but because of our positive initial impression, we go further with them than we should. Afterwords, we say "We'll never do THAT again!" but a few years later, we do.

 

You enjoyed the experience while it was happening, you haven't contracted any vile diseases, and you'll have an interesting story to tell in the years to come. This was just a bump in the road, that's all.

 

 

(I'd still try to lure his lyin' ass back into an expensive hotel room, but that's just me talking. It would give you another interesting story to tell, though)

[two42lovers 273]

One very good thing that came from this is you have found that you enjoy MFM threesomes. Follow your turn-ons, be in it for each other's fun, and make it all about your relationship with each other. Tricky part about playing is, of course, the same is true for your play partners. They have their own reasons and desires. The better you know and can relate your interests to potential playmates, the better time you will have.

 

We tend to play with way more couples, but we like to play with singles, too. We certainly might have decided to do exactly as you did, and invite the guy over. (Especially since you liked him and were attracted.) The coming without his partner thing would almost certianly have put us off, but have to say we lean towards actually believing the guy's story - the odds of saying you are a couple but showing up stag, and still being invited to play, makes the idea a real loser.

 

A single guy likely has no control and no way to know whether a particular female play partner will show or not. It seems plausible he found out she wasn't coming, but figured he may as well go stag and give it a shot. In fact, everything he told you could be entirely true. Best way we've found to cut to the chase is have the women chat on the phone before the meet. (Tends to clear everything up, and you'll get a lot less BS.)

[sweet_tna 680]

Yeah, you've been had. It happens. You chose to play with the guy anyway, so it's not surprising (to me, anyway) that the guy tried pushing the envelope to see just what he could get away with. But the important thing is ya'll had a good time for the most part, and have learned more about what you want (and what you don't want).

 

=)

[fun4Ds 1,097]

Mr.J , I know you are hoping for future good times ahead. And I know our good times far out number our bad adventures. If any thing I just have to wonder

 

Would you and Mrs.J consider MFM play again if the good guy came along ?

 

Ya know, our MFM playing came to light by means of serendipity. Mrs.fun was totally against it when we started and then found out sometimes we do enjoy the playing with an extra male. Just curious

[Guest MrsVan]

Being new we all make mistakes and we learn from them. I think that you obviously have learned by this situation and there is no reason to state any different.

 

MrVan and I had a couple that we have tried to hook up with on several occasions and had tried to do dinner with them one evening but the husband sent MrVan a text and said that the wife could not make it but wanted to know if it was okay if he came out and had drinks with us. We knew right there that something was up but just told him politely that we will just have to make it another night as we would prefer them both to be there.

 

We then told this same couple that we would be at a local party and they were to be there, but we never did see them so again we leave suspicions that this is not a couple.

 

I think for you, lesson learned is that if the male of the couple is the only one to show up, then it may be best just to end it there and say that you would prefer that you meet when the wife is available. It is always so hard to know whether or not the couple on the other end of emails or chats, are truly a couple or just a single playing you. Just be cautious!

[JustMrJ 178]

fun4ds,

 

After talking it over with Mrs.J again, she said she would definitely consider MFM if there was a nice guy who was on the up and up and she and I both 'clicked' with.

 

I have no problem as long as everyone is trying to please everyone and not just satisfy one player.

 

MrsVan,

 

Thank you for the information... We will both take it to heart.

 

I believe we will be trying out a meet-and-greet party or a club soon, so there shouldn't be as much of a risk of a replay.

 

 

Thank you all for your kind words and your brutal honesty.

 

I remember a phrase that applies... "A true friend will tell you what you NEED to hear, not what you want to hear."

 

So, again, thank you my friends. *HUGS*