Initially reluctant wives...

[likeitalot04 56]

Initially reluctant wives…

 

I have been an observer of this site for quite some time and I appreciate the education I have received from the time spent here.

 

I have seen similar questions raised and answered in the past on this forum but to my recollection I have never seen it expressed in the way I hope to do so now.

 

My wife and I have lived what many probably would describe as an above average sex life. We have always had a lot of sex when we compare our sex lives to the “averages” posted on this site as well as other national surveys.

 

My wife and I just entered our 60’s and our sex life has never been better. My wife has always enjoyed sex but when she was younger she just didn’t seem to understand sex and it was somewhat a hindrance to her enjoyment but not her desire or participation. In the last 5 or 6 years she has finally “figured it out” and is enjoying sex more than ever. She went from having a very occasional orgasms to being extremely responsive and is consistently multi-orgasmic…to the point I jokingly accuser her of having “premature orgasms”…she is a wonderful partner in life and in bed.

 

That said, it brings me to the point of this post. I have a wonderful curiosity about Swinging and would like to experience the LS with my wife.

 

When I approach her on the subject I get the “I don’t THINK so” and “Not in THIS life time” type responses. I know some women for one reason or another have a desire to enter the LS, but I tend to think that my wife’s response is probably more “normal.”

 

My wife, like others I have read about here, enjoys porn and gets very turned on especially during group sex scenes…in fact; this is her favorite type of porn. She has no bi-sexual tendencies that I am aware of and in fact those kinds of scenes seem to turn her off and often asking to fast forward through them…they seem to make her uncomfortable.

 

My wife is very loyal to me and I have been her only sexual partner. Whenever I bring up having sex with others her standard comment is “You are all I want” or “You are all I need.” This makes me feel wonderful, but at the same time it is a bit frustrating.

 

I would like to hear from those whose wife had the same initial reluctance but now are successful swingers and what it was that “put them over the edge” and allowed them to try it.

 

I know it is communication, communication, communication…but there seems to be so many successful swinging wives who I believe must have had the same initial reluctance, I can’t help but think there may be a common thread that made them realize they are not a “bad person” if they participate in the LS.

 

Let me hear your stories and perhaps we can see something in common that changed their initial reluctance into success.

 

I know the general consensus on the board is that once introduced and the mental barriers are removed for women that they actually enjoy it as much as or more so than their man. The question is…how do you get there in a way that will not make the wife feel bad about herself?

[VegasLee 1,486]

I know this is not the answer your looking for but some women like being "normal" and truly have no desire in life to enter this Lifestyle.

 

Personally, I feel that should be respected.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

I know this is not the answer your looking for but some women like being "normal" and truly have no desire in life to enter this Lifestyle.

 

Personally, I feel that should be respected.

 

I hate to do this to you, but Lee speaks the truth, and I must agree with him (again).

 

 

It doesn't mean she never ever will, but what you've told us doesn't sound promising.

 

You could bring it up occasionally (like, once every few months, not every few days!) , but if her attitude towards swinging doesn't change, then it would be best to let it go, for her benefit and yours.

 

I wish I could give you the magic words to change her mind, but as you know, she's the only one that can change her mind.

 

Best of luck to you both!

[likeitalot04 56]

Just curious Vegas...How did you enter the lifestyle? Was it your idea or hers?

 

The first time swinging was mentioned in your relationship did you both say, "Hey, that is a great idea, let's do it!" or was there a progression of attitudes.

 

From what I read on this site most couples take quite a bit of time to make the decision...was it different for you?

[joaninla 162]

I must say I was very reluctant when my husband first mentioned the idea of an MFM to me. I have always been sexualy adverturous, and had no objections to the idea of it. I just had some sort of vision that I would be 'servicing' two guys, when the reality ended up that it was the guys who were doing me (not me doing them). Many years later and more MFM's than I can count, I can only say that I first said, "OK, what the hell" after a year or so of my husband asking, begging, discussing, hoping, etc...It is a fine line a man walks between nagging/pestering and asking/hoping his wife will join in any sexual activity she is not immediately keen on.

Good luck!

Joan

[likeitalot04 56]

Well, there are two responses...

 

Perhaps everyone was pretty much "born" into swinging and there was never any reluctance at all...

 

Maybe I am wrong but I still believe that "most" women have a initial reluctance to the idea of swinging but many "learn to enjoy it."

 

I would like to hear from those that have had this experience.

[VegasLee 1,486]

likeitalot04 said:

Just curious Vegas...How did you enter the lifestyle? Was it your idea or hers?

 

The first time swinging was mentioned in your relationship did you both say, "Hey, that is a great idea, let's do it!" or was there a progression of attitudes.

 

From what I read on this site most couples take quite a bit of time to make the decision...was it different for you?

 

I am 50 something, I have been around swinging and open sex and attitudes since I was a teenager. It was different then it is now.

 

See, I almost messed up after I met Laura. After dating her for a bit I assumed she would not be interested in my lifestyle and told her we would no longer be seeing each other. As she said, I put on my STUPID HAT. She bugged me until I explained why we were splitting up.

 

Once I told her she understood what my life was about and I was lucky enough that she wanted to take the time to see if it was for her.

 

Six kids and eight grandkids later we are still together and this is our Lifestyle, not our hobby.

 

Even though I almost blew the best relationship in my life by assuming what her answer would be I respected her decision to decide for herself.

 

There was no progression of attitudes for us. I was in this Lifestyle and she made the free choice to join me on her own.

 

Freedom of choice is a great thing but it also has to be honored. What is right for one is not always right for the other. I happened to get lucky when I found someone that fit within my lifestyle.

[good times 991]

I know it isn't what you want to hear, but I think your assumption that a lot of women are as reluctant as your wife seems to be, but then go on to embrace swinging, is just not the case.

 

When meeting new swinger couples over the years, the subject of how they got into swinging is often a topic of discussion. I have yet to meet anyone who initially rejected the idea to then be convinced by their spouse to have a change of heart. In my case, it was my wife who initiated the conversation. Most couples we have met have been similar to ourselves. Regardless of which partner brought the subject up, they generally had both reached a position in life were the idea of swinging was an acceptable idea to discuss with an open mind. While I am sure their are varying levels of acceptance on first initiation of the discussion. I have never met someone who didn't want to even discuss it with an open mind, that later was convinced by their spouse to embrace the lifestyle.

 

Like one of th previous posters said, their really aren't any magic words that will make her open up to the idea.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I know the general consensus on the board is that once introduced and the mental barriers are removed for women that they actually enjoy it as much as or more so than their man. The question is…how do you get there in a way that will not make the wife feel bad about herself?

 

I know there are a few out there, but I know there are FAR more men still waiting and hoping and wishing (and nagging). What I've seen as often as those who try it and go on to enjoy it is those who finally get tired of the nagging and try it to shut him up only to discover they aren't any more comfortable than they thought but now they've done it and he just wants to do it again.

 

Yes, once a woman (who chooses to swing) tries it she is just as likely to enjoy it as men are. But when you introduce someone (male or female) to something they are not open to and they are doing only for the pleasure of the other partner.... it is just as likely to end badly.

 

In my case, I brought it up and lucky for me he was open-minded enough to think about it, talk about it with me and finally to venture into a swinger club and actually meet other swingers to see that they are real people just like the rest of us.

 

The question you need to ask your wife is "WHY?". Why does she feel that is something she would never do? Point out to her that she obviously enjoys watching it when the two of you are enjoying porn tapes. And most of all make sure that she knows that you feel she is the priority and that no matter what her feelings are on the matter, that she has final say and that you will love her regardless (so long as that is true).

 

BTW, I do hope you get some more responses from couples that have successfully jumped into swinging after having a reluctant spouse. I agree that the stories could be helpful, not just for you but for all who come here asking similar questions.

[des1re06 200]

Just a thought, but instead of trying to convince your wife to swing, why not just discuss a group sex encounter (like she enjoys while watching porno).

You say she enjoys those scenes.

 

We know many couples who stay with their spouse and have sex in a room where others are having sex. We did this many times when we first started going to on-premise clubs, and still do. Sometimes we just don't feel like swapping; we're that into each other.

 

One of the big rules at the clubs is no touching without asking. I'd bet she thinks she'd be pounced on and have no say in the matter, which is a common fear.

 

If you approach it as you're going to have sex with each other only, then she may be intrigued.

 

Take baby steps until she is comfortable.

 

Good luck,

 

Mrs. D

[TNT 1,155]

likeitalot04 said:

When I approach her on the subject I get the “I don’t THINK so” and “Not in THIS life time” type responses. I know some women for one reason or another have a desire to enter the LS, but I tend to think that my wife’s response is probably more “normal.”

 

From the number of post we have here on a weekly basis from men, who like you want to get into swinging but their wife doesn't, I'd say your wife's response was probably very "normal".

 

When swinging was first brought up in our relationship (before we really knew anything about swinging) I can't say I was reluctant...more curiously cautious. Group sex was a very exciting concept and especially a MFM threesome, which was what he was wanting us to try at the time but, not something that married people did (or so I thought).

 

My one concern was I didn't want to cheat on my husband...I definitely didn't want to ruin the good thing we had. I relayed this concern to Ted and his response was "How can you cheat on me if I'm right there holding your hand?" To me it was a simple, straightforward, logical question/answer that made total sense, causing a paradigm shift in the way I viewed the definition of cheating.

 

It was something he wanted to try and it was something that I wanted to try and if he didn't view it as me cheating on him then there just wasn't a reason for us not to try it.

 

likeitalot04 said:

Perhaps everyone was pretty much "born" into swinging and there was never any reluctance at all...

 

Maybe I am wrong but I still believe that "most" women have a initial reluctance to the idea of swinging but many "learn to enjoy it."

 

I don't know if people are "born" into swinging, maybe, maybe not but, I do believe that the way you're raised and the views and values that are instilled into you as a child, does play a part in it. I wasn't raised to believe that sex was "bad", just that once you were married your husband was the only one you had sex with. Luckily, I was also taught that just because something is right for one person doesn't mean it's right for another...which in essence allowed me to come to my own conclusions as to what was cheating and what wasn't when faced with that question in my life.

 

You said that you and your wife just entered your 60s...I'm going to take a guess that she was raised "sex within marriage only" . If she was raised to believe that this was/is the only way then it's going to be difficult for her to shift her way of thinking. Some people are able to brush off the things they were taught growing up easily, for others, it's very difficult...your wife may be one of those that it's difficult for. If so, all you can do is respect her decision, share your views and hope that maybe, one day she'll change her way of thought.

 

As to "learning to enjoy" something that you're reluctant to try...think of something that you really have no interest in trying but someone keeps hounding you to try...you eventually say yes to trying it just to shut them up...do you "learn" to enjoy it ? Or, do you become tolerant of it with an underlying feeling of resentment because you tried something just because you were pushed into it?

 

I don't think you can "learn" to enjoy something that just isn't in the make up of who you are. For me, as a woman, swinging wasn't something I tried just because it would make my husband happy. It was something that was inside me all along and that I was lucky enough to have found someone who also had it inside of them. Nature or nurture?...I don't know. I do know not everyone is a swinger and that it can't be forced on someone who just doesn't have it inside of them.

 

Teresa

[Sir Dude 15]

Eventhough we have tried something new recently, I would still consider Tina as being reluctant. We have no plans to try anything else ( although I always tell her that I will most likely be up for anything ). She has stated , she will never have sex with another female in the bed. She already felt comfortable with the other male, trusts him, and enjoys his company. We consider him a friend with benifits.

 

As for me, I've always wanted to try group sex. As soon as I started thinking about sex, I started thinking about multiple partners. She has had no such thoughts.

[WeUse 120]

As just a "lurker" on this one, I have nothing to add except that I really appreciate all of your posts. For me, it is educational and helpful. - Thanks

[likeitalot04 56]

I know there are a few out there, but I know there are FAR more men still waiting and hoping and wishing (and nagging). What I've seen as often as those who try it and go on to enjoy it is those who finally get tired of the nagging and try it to shut him up only to discover they aren't any more comfortable than they thought but now they've done it and he just wants to do it again.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful response Julie, I respect your experience and knowledge on the subject and BTW thank you so much for this forum.

 

I spent some time in the "Getting Started" forum after I read the replies above that discouraged me realizing the "negative" responses were from very long, and in one case nearly life long swingers. Everyone has to start somewhere and I found nearly an equal number of women's posts worrying how to bring up the subject to their spouse as I saw men in the same dilemma.

 

Everyone says it is all based on communication between you and your spouse, but you have to remember that even with excellent communications there is the fear that you could be hurtful to your spouse. When you truly love someone being hurtful is the last thing you want to be. Without the fear of hurting your mate this question could be discussed as easily as "Where would you like to go for dinner."

 

I have not really had a full discussion on swinging, it has been more like feelers being put out to test the waters and I feel that her responses have been partly conditioning AND she is just as afraid that if SHE says the wrong thing she may hurt ME. She has indicated to me that she would not be able to control herself in that kind of situation and it could be bad for the relationship. She has also expressed concern about diseases.

 

I would like to have a full discussion with her and I believe that if I did initiate such a discussion she would discuss it with me...my hesitation is doing it in such a way it will not cause hurt. I also know that no two people are the same...however, we are intelligent beings and most of our brains respond in the same way to good logic; hence, my desire to hear from others and their experience.

 

That is why I wanted to start a discussion by both men and women who were reluctant at first but "learned" to enjoy swinging, group sex, soft swing or whatever.

 

From reading nearly everything on this forum I know I am not a lone when it comes to these curiosities.

 

I also know that this LS is not for everyone, but I would like to encourage a discussion among those who initially thought they would never participate in such activities and now have grown to enjoy them.

[likeitalot04 56]

Just a thought, but instead of trying to convince your wife to swing, why not just discuss a group sex encounter (like she enjoys while watching porno). You say she enjoys those scenes.

 

Oh yes she does! She like it so much she says the one couple at a time videos are boring for her...and I feel the same way. Group sex visually excites both of us.

 

I have thought about what you suggest in the past. I would like to try a soft swing experience...a watch and be watched situation...just to see "if it is for us." It is sort of a "how do you know until you try it" situation...I would think you would go away from such an experience feeling either positive or negative...I would like to know.

 

If we venture into this I would like to do it with complete strangers from outside our community so IF we want to forget about the whole thing we don't have to worry about the other party hovering over us. I think this would be the safest thing to do and lower the risks considerably.

 

From exploring on SLS I find a fair number of couples who delve into soft swing activity...some have the caveat of "we may go further with the right couple" which indicates to me they have come to the same conclusion.

[likeitalot04 56]

From the number of post we have here on a weekly basis from men, who like you want to get into swinging but their wife doesn't, I'd say your wife's response was probably very "normal".

 

Teresa

 

That is the way I look at it Teresa.

 

Thank you for your very thoughtful reply, it is so helpful for a man to get a woman's point of view.

[likeitalot04 56]

You said that you and your wife just entered your 60s...I'm going to take a guess that she was raised "sex within marriage only" . If she was raised to believe that this was/is the only way then it's going to be difficult for her to shift her way of thinking. Some people are able to brush off the things they were taught growing up easily, for others, it's very difficult...your wife may be one of those that it's difficult for. If so, all you can do is respect her decision, share your views and hope that maybe, one day she'll change her way of thought.

 

Teresa

 

We may be in our early 60's but our sex life has never been better! I hope the younger viewers here take that as a confidence building encouragement.

 

You brought up several really important points Teresa and I appreciate the time it took you to respond to my post...Thank you!

 

My wife was molested as a young child by some older neighborhood boys and her mother held her responsible...then as a teenager her mother never trusted her (sexually) and accused her of activities that she never did. This did a real number on my wife and affected her sex life as an adult. It was not until her mother's death that she was able to put this behind her. My wife can't explain it, but when her mother passed away she was evidently liberated sexually and became a wonderful sexual partner.

 

My point is that people can and do change their sexual perceptions and responses, that is why it is so important that any introduction to the LS be done in a sensitive, caring way so as not to cause hurt or cause damage to the relationship.

 

I do not take this lightly...it is a very serious subject and needs to be approached in the proper manner or not at all.

 

I want to thank everyone who has replied to my inquiry, it will not only help me but all the others, male and female, that are facing the same quandary. I really encourage others, who were "initially reluctant" to post their experiences here so we can benefit from your experience.

[TNT 1,155]

likeitalot04 said:

Thank you for your very thoughtful reply, it is so helpful for a man to get a woman's point of view.

 

You're welcome

 

likeitalot04 said:

Everyone says it is all based on communication between you and your spouse, but you have to remember that even with excellent communications there is the fear that you could be hurtful to your spouse. When you truly love someone being hurtful is the last thing you want to be. Without the fear of hurting your mate this question could be discussed as easily as "Where would you like to go for dinner."

 

Something I would like to also add, and something that I think is overlooked at times and touches on the above....

 

You mentioned fear in hurting the one you love with bringing up the topic of swinging...and if you truly love someone, you don't want to be hurtful. I get that. But...where's the trust?

 

Without trust, there can be no love.

 

Bringing up swinging with someone you love is a very fearful thing...

 

Do you trust the person enough not to get angry? Do you trust them enough to not throw your deepest, darkest, desires back in your face? Do you trust them enough to hand them the proverbial knife aimed at your heart and soul and know that they won't stab you with it? Do you trust them enough to give them you?

 

I know we often talk about communication being the key to any good relationship and as has been pointed out at different times, we rarely tell "how" to communicate successfully...I've pondered the "how" many times and it's not any easy question to answer. Honestly, I don't have an answer to the "how"...I just know that if the answer to the above questions are "yes", then the "how" takes care of itself.

 

That may be a bit deep for some to understand but...everyone in their own way has taken that "leap of faith" and trusted the one they loved to trust and love them back.

 

You either trust your wife to love you enough to talk to you about this (whether she ever wants to swing or not) or you don't.

 

Teresa

[TNT 1,155]

likeitalot04 said:

We may be in our early 60's but our sex life has never been better! I hope the younger viewers here take that as a confidence building encouragement.

 

 

I definitely do

 

I'm sorry to hear about your wife's past and I'm glad that she found a way to "liberate" herself.

 

I also appreciate your honesty and your tough skin when it's come to some of the answers you've read throughout the board....I believe you really do care about your wife and you really want to learn and understand the world of swinging and to share that with her.

 

Bring up the topic, take the chance and bring her here to read and explore with you. It may never go beyond the exploration of reading but, the sharing of exploring together will bring you closer.

 

Teresa

[WeUse 120]

. . . Everyone says it is all based on communication between you and your spouse, but you have to remember that even with excellent communications there is the fear that you could be hurtful to your spouse. When you truly love someone being hurtful is the last thing you want to be. Without the fear of hurting your mate this question could be discussed as easily as "Where would you like to go for dinner." [Wouldn't that be nice?]

 

I have not really had a full discussion on swinging, it has been more like feelers being put out to test the waters and I feel that her responses have been partly conditioning AND she is just as afraid that if SHE says the wrong thing she may hurt ME. . . . She has also expressed concern about diseases.[A high school sex ed textbook?]

 

I also know that this LS is not for everyone, but I would like to encourage a discussion among those who initially thought they would never participate in such activities and now have grown to enjoy them. [While we are 98% alike, that 2% we're different is enough that one person's experience isn't necessarily going to work for another - I suspect "communication" is a more basic concern at this point]

 

To quote one of my favorite lines from George Orwell, "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." We all know it takes fortitude to be a revolutionary, but maybe a little revolution in our marital relationships is what we need (the operative word there is “little”). Another insightful philosopher once remarked that eventually “all revolutions evaporate leaving nothing but a bureaucracy.” After 23 years of marriage, 4 kids in 3 years, a couple of businesses to manage, elderly parents to care for, college tuitions and that stuff (i.e.,“life”) my marriage had become pretty much of a bureaucracy. It’s not that I didn’t love my spouse as I definitely did and do. It’s just that on a daily basis, after a hard day at the office, kids screaming, etc. we both began giving “short cut” responses and making a bunch of assumptions rather than fully engaging. Over the course of time, we'd both built up some expectations that were not being fulfilled. Without even realizing it, we’d slipped into a pattern of innocent, but “universal deceit” in our married life. I suspect that happens in every long term relationship, but less so where couples share intimately with others that helps maintain awareness (swingers maybe?).

 

In all those years, I’ve never cheated on my wife. AND, I found that with the realization of getting older and having some friends drop dead, I wanted more out of life which I wasn’t getting at home. For a tune-up, we consulted a marriage counselor. After 10 expensive hours, she made some insightful observations as to how we talk at each other, and gave us some good pointers. Perhaps the best one is to leave the judgment out of whatever we have to say.

 

For us, we are going to hear whatever others have to say to us. Whatever judgment we make about what's said, is our personal choice.

 

You say you hold back out of fear of hurting your wife. That’s certainly noble and understandable. Taking care of the other person is part of what love is all about. But at the same time, the communication with your wife is also pregnant with your judgment(s) that has you “withholding”. The unspoken judgment is your assessment about what your wife can take, what she’s willing to take, what will be hurtful to her, etc. I’ll bet your wife is a remarkably strong woman who is tougher than she’s being given credit for, and she can well think for herself. I realized how strong my wife was when it occurred to me that she’s put up with me for all these years.

 

A “tip” from the marriage counselor (for me and my wife, anyway) was to state things in terms of how you feel, not how you think the other person may feel. If you can get your wife to go along and do the same thing, it opens up some wonderful opportunities for good communications. If you can say something to the effect that “I feel . . .” How can she get that upset for you expressing your feelings if you’ve made it known that you love her and the relationship is secure. If you come from a position of revealing your feelings, she’ll probably appreciate the openness. Wouldn’t you appreciate (and respect the vulnerability) if she were that open with you?

 

- - - I’m saying this NOT as a preachy “Dear Abby”, but just something that worked well for me and my wife. – And, I haven’t gotten her to agree to a damn thing yet! - - - But, I’ve also had more fun living my life in accord with a quote form Hellen Keller, as a historical figure I’ve admired. Ms. Keller once observed that “life is either a daring adventure, or nothing”. For me, I consciously choose every day to live that adventure with my wife, as opposed to separating or blindly bumbling along in a bureaucracy.

 

I can not imagine how simple life would be if every day we told the truth, the whole truth (no witholds) and nothing but the truth on every ocasion.

 

Good luck!

[likeitalot04 56]

TNT said:

You're welcome

 

Something I would like to also add, and something that I think is overlooked at times and touches on the above....

 

You mentioned fear in hurting the one you love with bringing up the topic of swinging...and if you truly love someone, you don't want to be hurtful. I get that. But...where's the trust?

 

Without trust, there can be no love....

 

You either trust your wife to love you enough to talk to you about this (whether she ever wants to swing or not) or you don't.

 

Teresa

 

Thanks again Teresa, you are the greatest!

 

I trust my wife to love me whether I hurt her or not...being married for as long as we have I have unfortunately hurt her many times and she has never stopped loving me AND vice versa. I do trust and love my wife.

 

Like I said above, I have hurt my spouse in the past, what married person has not, but it was usually because I was not thinking or did not consider the consequences of my actions when I acted carelessly. Mostly in my youth, but it still has occurred.

 

I want to avoid hurting...if it can not be done then I will forget about it, but I have read many instances on this site where the spouse is initially hurt but after reasoning it out in their own mind they have come to realize their partner is not a monster.

 

I want to learn from others and avoid the hurt if at all possible. That is why I want to hear from others that had an "initially reluctant" spouse.

[likeitalot04 56]

WeUse said:

 

A “tip” from the marriage counselor (for me and my wife, anyway) was to state things in terms of how you feel, not how you think the other person may feel. If you can get your wife to go along and do the same thing, it opens up some wonderful opportunities for good communications. If you can say something to the effect that “I feel . . .” How can she get that upset for you expressing your feelings if you’ve made it known that you love her and the relationship is secure. If you come from a position of revealing your feelings, she’ll probably appreciate the openness. Wouldn’t you appreciate (and respect the vulnerability) if she were that open with you?

 

- - - I’m saying this NOT as a preachy “Dear Abby”, but just something that worked well for me and my wife. – And, I haven’t gotten her to agree to a damn thing yet! - - - But, I’ve also had more fun living my life in accord with a quote form Hellen Keller, as a historical figure I’ve admired. Ms. Keller once observed that “life is either a daring adventure, or nothing”. For me, I consciously choose every day to live that adventure with my wife, as opposed to separating or blindly bumbling along in a bureaucracy.

 

I can not imagine how simple life would be if every day we told the truth, the whole truth (no withholds) and nothing but the truth on every occasion.

 

Good luck!

 

I am impressed to say the least WeUse. Thank you.

 

Our relationship reached a similar point a few years ago to the point I was going to hang it up. We went to counseling and it was the best thing we ever did. We met together, then separately, then together. We both were able to express what was not working in our relationship then we were given recommendations on how to correct it. It worked! We have a wonderful relationship now and the sex is better than I ever imagined it could be.

 

Sometimes I wonder why I want more...I have been accused by my wife of "always wanting more"...but as you say, isn't that what life is all about? Who wants to remain stagnant?

 

I certainly do not want my wife to think that she is "not enough for me" that doesn't even enter the equation in my mind.

 

From what I have read on this forum is that if entering the LS properly everything between you becomes better...that is what I want and I want to do it without hurting my loving wife.

 

Thanks to you and others I FEEL that I am getting closer to opening a true discussion of the subject so we can get it out in the open and discuss this very sensitive subject objectively.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Teresa was posting as I was starting my post and she brought up what I want to: the issue of you fearing your wife may feel hurt.

 

Why do you feel your wife would be hurt? I think that is important to consider in this.

 

Teresa makes a very good point, and that is if you trust your spouse enough to listen to you there is a way to discuss swinging without hurting her. You may have good reasons for worrying about her feeling hurt by you wanting to have sex with other women, but you may also be surprised to find that she could be very understanding, once she knows why you want to swing.

 

My husband and I are similar in age to you. MrLM has reached his 60s and I'm still in my fifties. I was the one who brought swinging up and I think how you bring it up can make all the difference.

 

I don't know exactly what you have said to your wife, and it may even be hard for you to remember how your words come out of your mouth, but I wonder if it could be possible that your wife may think she should say "no way, not in this life." This is a different twist to things but I think it has merit.

 

If I had first asked my husband if he'd like to consider swinging, or what do you think about it, or would you be interested, he'd probably have said he's never had an interest, never thought about it and isn't interested. Had things went that way I may have felt the stop sign was in front of me and may have interrupted his words as "no way" and left it at that.

 

But I approached him in a different way and I did it when we weren't having sex. I told him one night that I had something to discuss with him. From our 30+ years of marriage he knows that means there is a serious topic to discuss. When either of us brings up the "I want to sit down and talk about something" statement (which we have done throughout our marriage) we understand that there is going to be an important issue on the table, one that requires listening and careful thought about what the other is going to share. We have always looked forward to these times because something worthwhile always comes of it. We end up closer because of these discussions and learn more about each other.

 

As background, you should know that my husband was the only man I'd ever had sex with before we started swinging. I was 50 when I brought up the idea of swinging and I explained that I didn't want to leave this earth only having had sex with one man. I have an incredible husband who always listens with his heart and thinks with his head. I knew he would listen, even if he said no to the idea I knew he'd consider what I had to say and I trusted that I could express myself in a way that he would not be hurt. I trusted him to listen and he did.

 

My husband had a lot of great sexual experiences before we got married. He'd done the FMF and was in sexual situations that you could describe as similar to swinging, although at the time he never gave that a thought because he didn't know what swinging was. So for him, sexual exploration was something he'd already satisfied in his life and didn't have a curiosity for it now. However, when he realized my needs, he understood completely and was willing to open that part of himself again for us. He has been pleased to find how fun it is for him, for me, for us.

 

I share our story because maybe there is some slight chance that your wife may see things differently if approached differently.

 

Another thing I want to bring up is age. Being in your 60s I think you have to face the fact that there aren't a lot of people our age starting out in swinging. I'd suggest you consider how many swingers are in your age group in your area and whether you only want to swing within 10 years age difference of yourselves. Also, even though you may be open to people in their 40s, they may not be interested in you at your age. It could be frustrating for you and your wife to finally decide to swing, only to discover there aren't enough people out there to meet in order to find a match for compatibility.

 

I hope you find that you can be happy with whatever the outcome.

[likeitalot04 56]

I definitely do

 

I'm sorry to hear about your wife's past and I'm glad that she found a way to "liberate" herself.

 

I also appreciate your honesty and your tough skin when it's come to some of the answers you've read throughout the board....I believe you really do care about your wife and you really want to learn and understand the world of swinging and to share that with her.

 

Bring up the topic, take the chance and bring her here to read and explore with you. It may never go beyond the exploration of reading but, the sharing of exploring together will bring you closer.

 

Teresa

 

Teresa, you and your lover have many, many years to look forward to...I know when I was younger I was concerned that we would lose our sexuality...it is such an important part of our lives now I don't think that will ever happen unless, God forbid, something happens to our health.

 

I appreciate your concern and the time it has taken for you to reply...I like your empathy.

 

Everyone who has replied has had good points and information to provide, but some I believe to not make the effort to put themselves in the other person's shoes. The members that responded in a more negative manner really were never in my shoes, one was in the LS before marriage and the other it was his wife's idea. Although they offered valid points and ones that I have paid attention to neither had to face what I have to face if I want us to enter the LS...so as valid as their points have been, they have not been here where I am.

 

Yes, I really do care about my wife and I really want to learn and understand the world of swinging and to share that with her.

 

Thank you again Teresa.

[likeitalot04 56]

Likeminds, I am so impressed with your reply...THANK YOU!

 

I was going to quote a small portion in my reply so other would know what I am replying to but when I re-read your post I realized that every point you made is right on and I felt nothing should be cut out.

 

Everyone in my shoes should read this post and in fact the entire thread!

 

I think your approach was perfect and I hope to be able to incorporate your successful communication method in my approach.

 

I think finding like thinking partners would be a challenge but in dabbling in SLS's website there seems to be plenty of age appropriate couples that have the same basic wishes that I have. If I ever get to that point, I think the researching and screening will be one of the fun parts.

 

Likeminds, thank you again for your great advice.

[WeUse 120]

Some years ago I took one of those multi-day mind expansion programs (NOT the pleasant ones), but got a lot out of it. One of the things I got out of that program was that my attitude toward "sex" was exactly the same as it was about "money". For whatever reasons, I was convinced that "life would be better" if I had more!

 

While I still fantasize about carving more notches on my belt, it is really much more rewarding to live in peace.

 

Thanks for the compliment - a lot of people are saying some really good things here!

[likeitalot04 56]

WeUse said:

Some years ago I took one of those multi-day mind expansion programs (NOT the pleasant ones), but got a lot out of it. One of the things I got out of that program was that my attitude toward "sex" was exactly the same as it was about "money". For whatever reasons, I was convinced that "life would be better" if I had more!

 

While I still fantasize about carving more notches on my belt, it is really much more rewarding to live in peace.

 

I think you are too good of a man to be concerned about "notches on your belt", but I catch your drift.

 

I too think this is a good thread...there are a lot of people in our shoes and they don't want to ruin something very precious to them. I really enjoy hearing how each person handled the introduction to the LS when their partner was "Initially reluctant." There is nothing more important than your marriage so sensitive topics need to be well thought out so as not to hurt.

 

Good luck...

[gnb4u 15]

Our situations had some similarities to yours. We also had a good sex life and my wife also enjoyed amateur group porn. When the idea first came up we looked at is as possibly going to an on-premise swing club that had a "group room" and just going in and watching and playing with each other and not have sex with others. That may be worth discussing.

 

Also we were both very conservative and traditional and the thing that we maintained from our first discussions untill present day is that swinging is just a facet of our love and sex life and when we play with others it is still about our shared experience as a couple. In other words it is not about having sex with other people, we are making love together as a couple, it just happens that there are other people involved. The other people are not the objective. They are just providing additional excitment and stimulation to our sexual experience.

 

If you can make the approach that it is about YOUR experience as a couple rather than just screwing other people it may make a difference. But keep in mind that the vast majority of the world's population is vanilla by choice. Most people choose to be monogamous and really are only interested in traditional marriage and relationships.

[likeitalot04 56]

Also we were both very conservative and traditional and the thing that we maintained from our first discussions untill present day is that swinging is just a facet of our love and sex life and when we play with others it is still about our shared experience as a couple. In other words it is not about having sex with other people, we are making love together as a couple, it just happens that there are other people involved. The other people are not the objective. They are just providing additional excitment and stimulation to our sexual experience.

 

If you can make the approach that it is about YOUR experience as a couple rather than just screwing other people it may make a difference.

 

Thanks for your great reply GBN...I am very pleased to receive such insightful replies to my post, each and every one of you have made very valid contributions.

 

You have an excellent point GBN...it really should be about the couple and not the individual as others have pointed out and you have said it in such a clear and concise way. Swinging should definitely be experienced as a COUPLE and not individually. I can see where if one partner perceives that the other is in it ONLY FOR THEMSELVES...it will not work.

[sahajacpl 95]

Thanks for your great reply GBN...I am very pleased to receive such insightful replies to my post, each and every one of you have made very valid contributions.

 

You have an excellent point GBN...it really should be about the couple and not the individual as others have pointed out and you have said it in such a clear and concise way. Swinging should definitely be experienced as a COUPLE and not individually. I can see where if one partner perceives that the other is in it ONLY FOR THEMSELVES...it will not work.

 

You will get lots of these responses which say either she says yes, or, no way she is going to agree to have sex with another man. We are prisoners of our upbringing that tells us that sexual intercourse has to be between husband and wife only. Women are more susceptible, and, they do take this message to heart and do not want to deviate from it, because they think i.t is either not normal or outright sinful. Men are more open and willing to have sexual relations with another woman without a sense of guilt. Your wife is no exception.

 

There is nothing in this world that is not negotiable. Particularly, all things including sexual life, is fully negotiable between husband and wife that have a loving and trusting relationship.

 

Lifestyle is a journey together within a married couple's life pursuits and that includes having or enjoying sex with other partners. The way we handled it was to talk about the lifestyle and what it offers. We went to swinger or swinger friendly resorts. Wife was horrified and thought that she will be stripped nude and fucked by other men regardless of her wishes. The reality was very different as she soon found out. I asssured her that we would stay together, have sex with each other ,and, watch other couples having sex, swapping mates for sexual play and intercourse. It was like watching a porn movie in real life.

 

This alone helped remove many misconceptiona she had about the lifestyle. We are not hardcore swingers, but do enjoy many aspects of the swinging lifestyle. Just remember lifestyle is an attitude, as someone has said. It is not about just fucking all the time every comer.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

likeitalot04 said:

 

I think finding like thinking partners would be a challenge but in dabbling in SLS's website there seems to be plenty of age appropriate couples that have the same basic wishes that I have. If I ever get to that point, I think the researching and screening will be one of the fun parts.

 

Likeminds, thank you again for your great advice.

 

You're welcome. I'm glad you found it helpful.

 

It is promising to hear that SLS has plenty of couples in your area.

[interested-05 135]

I'm going to add a bit of my own experience to the discussion.

 

Raised in a very strict religious tradition, married as a virgin, and lived by the rules til I found myself going thru a divorce after she left so she could play the field. So our experience varies considerably because of the divorce, which caused me to do a lot of reevaluation of what I wanted in life. As a side issue my ex opened up sexually after her father passed away, and had suggested there had been a couple of inappropriate experiences she'd had with relatives. one of the reasons, I think we should neuter child molesters.

 

When I started dating and discovered the pleasures of variety, the fantasies became much more interesting., but figured that was only in porn, until I was approached by a pair of couples, who were clearly interested in having me join them. I turned them down, hey I was outnumbered 4-1, so safety was a concern. But it made me start thinking people really do this, and I slowly began checking out swinging as a possibility. This website has been a great help, in that it helped me work my way through a lot of questions, fears and issues that I knew I would have to deal with if any new relationship was going to include this as a possibility.

 

Fortunately my new wife, while we were dating brought it up in conversation, as to whether I had ever fantasized about it. At first I didn't want to admit it, but honesty had prevailed and I had to tell not only yes I had fantasies, but had been considering it for a while.

 

Eventually the conversations led to going to a club where we would simply check it out and see what the people were like and go from there.

It has been almost 4 years, and we have had a couple soft experiences, and greater openness with each date. WE have another date planned which we expect to advance a little further, and see how we feel as it unfolds. If we have a problem, it is back off and give it more time.

 

Hopefully at your age, you have a lot of years to share and explore together. I guess I would talk to her and see what she is willing to try, as an adventure. maybe it is to add a toy, maybe share this site with her, and ask her questions of relevance from this site. Maybe it os like us and she is willing to visit a club, nude beach, or New Orleans for Mardi Gras, and a promise to leave if she gets uncomfortable. Just go to watch and experience the atmosphere of a sexy environment. If so do a little research on which clubs are good for beginners.

 

Go as they say at the slowest person's pace.

[Guest Fringeswinger]

Sometimes NO means NO and it won't change. People are just wired differently. You have to prepare yourself for that possible eventuality.

 

My wife won't even entertain the fantasy. After about 2 years of bringing it up in bed sporadically, I have been asked to please keep it to myself from now on. All this time she was just tolerating it. We have always been wired differently - I'll just have to live with it.

 

Good luck!

[longtermcouple 12]

We have been married 35 years and are still madly in love with each other DUE TO the swinging lifestyle. My wife and I were raised Catholic and have two grown children and we always attended church weekly. We are still both active in church and participate in church organizations/events.

 

This is a short version of how it started after we were married 14 years into our marriage. I still loved my wife but I needed more (variety). I bought swinger magazines and fantasized about my wife with another man. I wanted this more than being with another woman. I wrote to couples in the swinger magazines and we met a few couples close to us. One couple who was also Catholic and were church leaders. We went to their house and played a board game and shared fantasies while removing articles of clothing if we landed on the wrong spot. To make the story short it happened and the rest is history. After another 31 years of off and on swinging my wife still says I'm weird, a pervert and not normal because I still want daily sex and love sharing her with other men. She still says (no) she doesn't want to go (Catholic upbringing and it is wrong) but she does go and dresses up sexy and yes, does have a great time.

 

My average sexy looking Caucasian wife has been with other white, black and Mexican men, some older and some younger and YES, loves other men paying attention to her, loves the flirting, dressing up sexy, touching & kissing on the dance floor and feeling another (new) man penetrate her and giving her oral to completion.

 

Our marriage (35 years) is not only more secure but this lifestyle has enhanced our love and marriage and made our sex together and better than when we were dating. After being with other people sexually our own sex with each other is very intensive and mind blowing. The orgasms we experience are beyond belief. Yet, my wife says she doesn't want to swing; even though she enjoys swinging. and, my wife has admitted to me numerous times while were having really hot sex that it has enhanced our love and marriage.

 

We now call all of our sexual experiences (MARRIAGE ENHANCEMENT)

 

Be patient, talk and share your fantasies about her and other men, insure she always has an orgasm's and everything will fall into place.

 

Swinging is GOOD for a long term marriage!!!