How can I trust my wife again?

[azcouple85379 22]

I am in the military and stationed in San Diego in Jan of 2007 I moved my family from San Diego to Phoenix so my wife could take and excellent job at a very large insurance company, Phoenix just also happens to be where I am from.

 

It was understood that we only played as a couple with other couples and this would happen when time allowed and I always drive home every weekend. While in PHX we went to a few clubs and a few house parties but never really found any couples that we were both attracted to enough to play although there were a few. I also made it clear to my wife that her cheating would end our marriage. I have to throw that in there because her cheating ended her last marriage while they were in the lifestyle, he was also military and it happened while he was deployed. I recently deployed to Iraq and am here as of this writing. Before I left my wife tried to start a conversation with me regarding her playing while I was gone that only got me upset and that was really all the further that went.

 

About a month and a half into my deployment I decided I was being unfair and consented to letting her play with a couple that are friends of ours that we have played with on several occasions. I also agreed that she could play 3 times during my six month deployment but only with other couples as it was a single guy that got her in trouble with her last husband when she wanted to keep him around after her husband got home. But I wanted to know honestly what she had done, if anything, since she had moved to PHX (there we some emails in our couples email account that made me suspicious) so I needed to know. She then confessed to sleeping with at least 5 other guys while I was away in San Diego during the week and 1 since I had left for deployment at a swing party. Two of the guys she slept with on more than one occasion, all at our house while our 2 year old son was asleep down the hall. The swing party was the weekend after I left for deployment. Three of the guys were from her work where she has now been passed over for promotion two times even though she is the top performer on her team. Not saying its related but she did say that her managers "golden boy" found out about her first trist by overhearing them talking about it at work and she says he has a big mouth.

 

She says it was just for sex and I believe her. She does crave variety and tells me often that even after she has sex with other guys that I am the best she has had. The problem I have is now I feel I cannot trust her because several times during the year I would ask if there was something else going on and she lied. Her reason was she didnt want to upset me. Even at the start of the deployment (before we agreed she couple play 3 times with other couples) she told me not to worry because she was not going to do anything and would not have men over to our house (also obviously a lie). I do NOT want to end our marriage I love her with all my heart. The other issue is that if I told her that her cheating would end our marriage and she did it anyway, then how much does she really value our marriage? I mean yes it was for sex but does she just come home to me because of the security or our son? The sex was obviously important enough that she would loose all of it to have it, so what do I do? How can I trust my wife again? Is it possible I can put this behind us? She says 3 times with couples will work for her (which now works out at about once per month) until I get home but how will I know she isnt calling up one of the other guys?

 

I told her when I get back I will be more proactive when we go to parties as I am kind of shy which is I guess another reason we dont always play at parties. She says when we go to parties and dont play it gets her all worked up and that was another reason she went outside our marriage.

 

I am sorry I probably jumped around alot its just how my thoughts spill out and if I go back to proof it I might end up changing things. Any help would be so very much appreciated.

 

N

 

*edited to change email notifications from daily to instant*

[JustMrJ 178]

I have to ask how long both of you have been in the Lifestyle?

 

If not both, then who introduced who to the Lifestyle?

 

Now to the lecture based on your post...

 

Well, first thing I see here is that she is not being honest with you. Since we are only getting one side of the story (no offense) I would think there may be a lack of both communication and honesty/trust/love.

 

The communication part could be that she has not expressed her 'needs' properly until your last conversation.

 

As to the honesty/trust/love issue, I'll break it down like this...

 

Honesty: You've already said that she had five single men over without ever mentioning it to you AND she knew it would make you jealous. This leads us to...

 

Trust: I think that jealousy falls into this category (at least for me). If she didn't fear your anger/jealousy, she would have no need to hide things from you. You should both be able to come to a compromise as adults and not have these trust issues. I trust my wife with not only everything we own, but my life as well. She would never intentionally hurt me and I would never intentionally hurt her.

 

Love: This one is a tough one for me to put into words, so bear with me... It would seem you both have a large rift between you. If you are both loving and respectful of each other, then there should be no subject and no physical or economic reason for her to stay or go. Love should be the reason she stays... not the greatest sex from you. To me this sounds like a 'line'. Spouses should stay with each other because of love, not just sex. Sex can be important, but it is not the end all and be all of a relationship.

 

My wife is my best friend first... if you find that this is not the case with you and your wife, maybe you both need to seek proper counseling. Even if you consider her your best friend, I see things going on here that best friends would NEVER do to one another.

 

If you truly love your wife and you believe that she truly loves you... SEEK HELP! You two need to communicate without emotion getting in the way of the information. I realize that this can be a HUGE hurdle to clear, but it is essential for both of you to understand one another. If this line of communication is not open properly, I don't believe you will be able to resolve the other issues correctly.

 

I do hope you two can work it out. I hate to see any couple unhappy or break up, especially with a child in the mix.

 

I apologize in advance if I seem harsh. I've been through a bad marriage and better communication would have let us work things out sooner so we wouldn't hurt each other so much. My first marriage had to end and it would have no matter what, there just wasn't that two way love going on. It was all one way from me to her... and her side was all 'lip service'.

[azcouple85379 22]

You are not being harsh at all, and I appreciate your comments. Its not that she stays with me for the best sex ever, I do think she tells me that so I will feel better about myself. We tell each other we love one another every time we talk.

 

She has been in the lifestyle I would have to say 9 years as part of a couple with her previous husband. I was always a single male and was introduced to it in 2001 before I ever met my wife with some friends of mine who were swingers and invited me into their bedroom. That situation ended rather poorly when his wife and I became too attached to each other. So needless to say I am the less experienced of the two in our marriage.

 

I know we have problems communicating for exactly the reason you mentioned, emotions always get the better of us and we end up defensive and arguing instead of communicating rationally. I originally wrote most of what I posted in a long email to my wife but like you said I was worried it would just open an emotional fight instead of two way communication, especially since considering the time difference between here and AZ it would be the first thing she read when she woke up and start her day off in a very bad way.

 

Of course she hid it from me because I would be angry since the rules were that we were in the lifestyle as a couple but i dont really consider myself jealous of another male in a couple when we are playing together as a couple. She even said that when she told me, that she wanted to tell me everytime she did it but was afraid at how upset I would be. I feel that I would be entitled to feel that way given the situation, but that is not what I am feeling now. I just want to be able to put it behind us have it not happen again and be able to trust my wife when she says that it wont.

 

I feel that I should add that we are in the lifestyle because of her choosing not mine. She said before we got married that she could not be with someone that would not be in the lifestyle. I did not particularly want to be in the lifestyle but I will for her so that is the compromise. We do it but only as a couple with other couples. But as it works out the more we do it the more comfortable I become with it.

[des1re06 200]

First, thank you for your sacrifice on behalf of our country.

 

Some people are not meant for monogomy. Your wife sounds like she is one of those people.

 

You knew she was a swinger when you married, but she's really acting more like a cheater than a swinger (which you know, and seems to be the problem). Swinging to us is an experience we share to enhance our sex life.

 

Counseling - may be difficult to find someone who will counsel you without being judgmental. Actively seek a sex therapist and let them know up front about your lifestyle.

 

I know this is doubly hard for you being deployed, and I just hate this for you. Having to deal with a cheating spouse while you're trying to do your job is just awful.

 

Finally, put your foot down and put a stop to all swinging until you can work things out and she can respect your boundaries. Your post sounds like you feel you should open up and change, and I feel that she is the one who needs to put the brakes on because she's hurting you.

 

Good luck,

 

Mrs. D

[ncmd_couple 597]

AZCouple,

 

Thank you for your service to this great nation! You be careful in Iraq and make sure that you let us know that you got home safely!

 

As a Navy combat vet myself, with over three years at sea, I can appreciate your situation. In some ways, I think that serving today on long deployments is harder for you now than it was for me. My only communication back home to the wife and kids was through letters. We didn’t have e-mail and we might be able to place one short MARS call during the entire deployment. So we could always dream of a peaceful home waiting for us when we got back and we didn’t have to worry about it too much.

 

Unfortunately, underway widows are a reality of life in the service. And quite honestly, I think you should table this until you get home. There really isn’t anything you can do about it right now. So take advantage of the next three months and take your soul out and look at it, and work out in your mind how you want this to be resolved when you get home. Not a hard and fast solution, but guidelines toward working through it with your wife.

 

Normally, you could go to the Chaplin about this, but not in this case, because swinging could put you in a sticky situation with the military depending on who you talk to. The fact that you laid down the law that the marriage was over if she cheated should be abandoned. That is history, and there is nothing that you can do about it at this point as it sound to me that you do not want it to end.

 

Tell your wife that what you want from her is for her to be honest with herself, and honest with you. Don’t push her into a corner that makes her feel that she does not have any choices for resolving this with you when you return. And make sure that she knows that you love her and want nothing more than to return safely home to her.

 

Remember the KISS principal. Keep it simple stupid! Keep it simple and loose until you can get home. Then the two of you can work together to resolve this. In the mean time just ask her to be honest with herself and you and you two will be able to work it out.

 

Good Luck!!!!!

 

S

[azcouple85379 22]

well i had written a very nice long reply and when i hit spell check it decided to *poof* so here is the short and sweet version

 

Mrs. D - thank you for your well wishes on my deployment it is my honor and a priveldge to serve, even after 10 years and 4 deployments i am still at a loss for words when people thank me for doing my job.

 

NMCD - thank you for your service also. i am also a sailor but gave up my sealegs to be on the ground with the guys closer to the fight and have not regretted a minute of it. some nights i even get to sleep in a bed not the two inch piece of foam in the coffin rack on the boat. of course there are the bullets, mortars, grenades and IEDs to worry about but that is why they issue body armor and MRAPs.

 

i am still welcoming any input and appreciate all the responses i have recieved so far. JustMrJ i think you kind of help me see it from my wifes perspective but i still stand by my reasoning that i reserve the right to feel hurt/angry/decieved/betrayed by her actions given the ground rules we both agreed to.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I know we have problems communicating for exactly the reason you mentioned, emotions always get the better of us and we end up defensive and arguing instead of communicating rationally. I originally wrote most of what I posted in a long email to my wife but like you said I was worried it would just open an emotional fight instead of two way communication, especially since considering the time difference between here and AZ it would be the first thing she read when she woke up and start her day off in a very bad way.

 

 

Write it all out and send it to her. Everything you've told us. The problem here is not that she can't be monogomous (anyone can). Once upon a time I would have said that there was no way that I could be monogamous... that was before I learned how to communicate with my partner and was in a relationship where I felt that no matter what I said, they might get upset initially but that we would talk it through rationally and work it out together. I think the biggest issue here IS communication. And the only way to fix that is to start communicating.

 

On one hand I think it's understandable that you would set boundaries for while you are away but on the other hand I feel like asking her to go without anything the entire time you were gone (after having been actively swinging as well as had you around for regular sex) was a bit much to ask. She should have spoke up then and let you know that she didn't feel she could handle that (and maybe she did and you got upset, which is what led her to do things behind your back... if you got upset at the IDEA of what she might do how upset would you get at her actually doing it?). I'm not trying to justify her actions because they were still wrong, but I do understand where she might be coming from and you need to try to do so as well.

 

Now, what has happened has happened and you need to be able to move past it. If you have trouble telling her how you feel without emotions getting in the way, write it out and communicate these things via email for now. When you get back home, though, I highly suggest couples counseling so that the two of you can learn how to communicate better face to face without the emotions coming between you and effectively ending the conversations. Hopefully, now that you have given her some leeway and set some boundaries that she feels she can live with, she will stay within those boundaries for the remainder of your deployment and if not, you need to make sure that she knows that she can and should tell you anything that happens so that you can talk about it together and maybe work on figuring out why she felt the need to stray beyond the boundaries.

[WeUse 120]

Having never been separated from my wife like you are, I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like -- so far away with a sense of not being able to be in control. Whatever happens, I wish the two of you the best- and, like others, thank you for your service to the country!

[azcouple85379 22]

Just wanted to clear one thing up. She only cheated on me one time since I have been deployed in April, the other times were while I was at home but like I said I am stationed in San Diego and she lives in Phoenix. I drive home every weekend, so the majority of the times she has done it, it was while I was gone during the week in San Diego, not while I have been deployed. So I do think it was wrong of me to ask her not to do anything the entire time I was deployed which is why we worked it out so that she can sleep with other couples that we have been with before.

[VegasLee 1,486]

Honestly, only you know if you can forgive her or not.

 

This all depends on what you want for the both of you.

 

You can set "rules" that you both can live with and expect those rules to be followed or you can bail out on the relationship. I am not suggesting giving it up but you are the only one that can decide this. It is your trust that has been betrayed here.

 

Best to work on this in person but you don't have that choice.

 

Tell her what you have told us. You know how she is, can you live with that or not? She likes to party even when she knows she is breaking the rules. Can you live with a change in rules or maybe if she values her relationship with you enough she can live with a change of rules.

 

Nothing we can do here can fix your trust in her, only you and her can do that by coming to an agreement that you both can live with. Dwelling on it forever is not going to make things better for either of you.

 

Good luck to you and Thank you for the service you are providing to everyone in this country!

[azcouple85379 22]

VegasLee,

 

Thanks. I guess that pretty much sums it up. I appreciate everyones comments and suggestions, I think I just needed a place to be able to vent it all and hopefully I can word things to her in way that will not automatically put her on the defensive.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Just wanted to clear one thing up. She only cheated on me one time since I have been deployed in April, the other times were while I was at home but like I said I am stationed in San Diego and she lives in Phoenix. I drive home every weekend, so the majority of the times she has done it, it was while I was gone during the week in San Diego, not while I have been deployed. So I do think it was wrong of me to ask her not to do anything the entire time I was deployed which is why we worked it out so that she can sleep with other couples that we have been with before.

 

 

That does make a BIG difference in my POV on the situation. I agree that knowing that she couldn't even last a week of seperation without cheating it was probably a bit much to think she could go 6 months. But the fact that she couldn't even make it a week without cheating and lying tells me there really are much bigger problems that need to be addressed. At this point I don't even think it's about swinging ... for her swinging is just a way to cheat with permission. You guys need councelling both as a couple and from the sounds of it she needs it on her own to work out her issues. She may have a sex addiction or it may be some other deep rooted issue (fear of committment, etc) that is causing her actions.

[JustMrJ 178]

azcouple85379,

 

I do hope you can work this out. As others have said... write it out in an email as that will keep the emotions out of it some. To really tone them down, even in an email, write it out in something like 'notepad' or 'wordpad' and review it a few times after you have fully read and touched it up a few times. Maybe even leave it for an hour or so (if it's your own computer) and then go back and read it again to make sure there is a very neutral tone to everything you say.

 

You want to communicate the information at this time. Trust, boundaries, partners, etc.

 

As to the 'love' portion... keep your emotions in it as that is what you say you really want to communicate to her.

 

Be safe... *HUGS*

[iapr 24]

God bless you for your service and sacrifice and I wish you a swift and safe return home after your deployment.

 

IMHO this really isn't a swinging issue but rather plain old adultry and unfaithfullness. The lifestyle was just a venue where she hooked up with some of the guys. At it's core, adultry is often about selfishness, disrespect and lack of compassion for all the parties that are hurt in the process. This ain't swinging this is just fucking around.

 

Screwing 5 guys under your nose and 1 more as soon as you are deployed is just plain over the top. That is not an inability to remain monogamous and it has nothing to do with needing variety, that is just plain bad behaviour.

 

Keep in mind also that this is what you have found out about. God only knows what other secrets are still out there. the only predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour and her past ain't soundin' so good at the moment.

 

I honestly do not know if one can communicate and counsel away bad behaviour, selfishness or disrespect. I don't know if the problem here can really be "fixed." I think what needs to take place is you need to decide what is best for you and your son.

 

You need to circle your wagons and get your affairs in order and prepare for battle to protect your own interests and the health, safety and welfare of your child. Only you can decide what you can live with and tolerate but whatever choice you make you will need to protect yourself and your assets and your child.

 

You may love her and she may be the hottest thing you have ever laid eyes on but she is not sounding like a good person and you need to protect yourself and pursue your own best interests. I agree with counseling but that counseling should be for yourself on how to stand up to the bitch and fight tooth and nail to protect your assets and how to protect your child. God only knows what kinds of guys she is bringing around your son. You need legal counseling, financial counseling, child welfare/parental counseling and probably a good dose of personal counseling.

 

I don't know if your marriage is worth fighting for but you are worth fighting for and your son is worth fighting for. Fight for yourself and for your son with all you have.

 

I wish you Godspeed and good luck.

[ViSexual 1,008]

Military separations are a bitch!

 

When I was a Combat Controller (we were gone a lot), during Viet Nam, I had a friend who'd get divorced each time he went overseas. Really!

 

They were a very attractive and happy couple but just agreed this was the best way for both of them. He didn't like writing letters and she didn't want to stay horny all the time. That's exactly how they put it. They did this three times that I know of.

 

I was single and had the opportunity to be with her while he was away but they were just too good of friends for me to feel comfortable with it.

 

OK, that said, you're in a little different situation than he was. Your wife was an active swinger and you'd had at least that one threesome relationship. Your's ended badly and that might have made you a bit apprehensive of the lifestyle in general.

 

Now there's really no defending her being deceptful to you but it might be because she doesn't feel she can be totally open and honest with you yet.

 

And, the fact she doesn't want to just leave you and find someone else tells me she loves you and wants to stay with you.

 

If it were me I'd think that I have to decide whether to drop all rules and just enjoy her for who she is or think about separation.

 

Good luck and watch out for yourself over there. Don't let your mind dwell on your relationship to the point of not thinking about your safety.

[azcouple85379 22]

I am actually starting to feel a lot better about the whole thing. I do think I was probably not open enough to her needs. I knew what they were when we got married. She told me she wouldnt be with someonewho wasnt in the lifestyle and she needed to still be with people when I deployed. This is my first deployment since we have been married, and we agreed to her being able to be with couples a limited amount of time before she ever told me about the rest of it. So now that she has permission I dont think she will need to go outside of the boundaries.

 

As for what happened before the deployment, well I forgive her. Some weekends when I was home we would not always have sex and according to her we went 6 weeks without it once although I find that difficult to believe and she hasnt always been good with numbers lol. And I accept responsibility for us not always playing when we went out as I would normally being the one that said I was not comfortable. Like I said now that she does have permission I dont think she will seek anything outside the relationship and if she thinks she needs to she says she will discuss it with me. I originally thought 3 times was a good number but I am leaning more towards 5 now since that is roughly how many months I have left here. And although she agreed to 3 also, she will like 5 more I think. I also promised to be more open to the couples we meet instead of nit-picking everything so we will be able to play more once I am home and this should eliminate her need to stray when I am stateside but only home on the weekends again.

 

I want to thank everyone for their comments and different points of view, I really really needed someone to talk this out with before I discussed it all with my wife. We talked and neither one of us got upset so that has to be why I am feeling so good about everything. She assured me that she does love me and knows I love her, and she would never leave me. Now when I get back I look forward to having some real fun and actually enjoying what this lifestyle is really all about.

 

N

[JustMrJ 178]

It's great to hear you had a very productive communication session (talk) together.

 

Please let us know how much fun you are having with her and among others... we look forward to hearing more happiness in your life.

 

*HUGS*

[Vjklander 138]

How is she about YOU satisfying YOUR needs?

[Couple-N-NM 48]

Stop swinging and re-think for a bit! You guys have got to get on the same page here or its going to kill your relationship. If she's got to swing while you're deployed then you need to find a couple or 2 that you're comfortable with and trust, and she's got to be able to limit herself to them.

 

I've never been in your shoes, but thats the closest thing to middle ground that I can come up with right off hand.

 

Good luck!

[LFM2 1,482]

I am actually starting to feel a lot better about the whole thing. I do think I was probably not open enough to her needs. I knew what they were when we got married. She told me she wouldn't be with someone who wasn't in the lifestyle and she needed to still be with people when I deployed. This is my first deployment since we have been married, and we agreed to her being able to be with couples a limited amount of time before she ever told me about the rest of it. So now that she has permission I don't think she will need to go outside of the boundaries.

 

I believe you are a very understanding husband. If you've agreed that she can play with a certain couple while you're gone, you are one in a hundred. What about your needs though? Just curious

 

As for what happened before the deployment, well I forgive her. Some weekends when I was home we would not always have sex and according to her we went 6 weeks without it once although I find that difficult to believe and she hasn't always been good with numbers lol. And I accept responsibility for us not always playing when we went out as I would normally being the one that said I was not comfortable.

 

Not being comfortable is a great reason to NOT swing. Most swingers will only go as slow as the slowest partner. I have to agree with most of the others that has posted here. We have a bunch of smart cookies on here. They are so much more eloquent with their words than I am though.

 

Like I said now that she does have permission I don't think she will seek anything outside the relationship and if she thinks she needs to she says she will discuss it with me. I originally thought 3 times was a good number but I am leaning more towards 5 now since that is roughly how many months I have left here. And although she agreed to 3 also, she will like 5 more I think. I also promised to be more open to the couples we meet instead of nit-picking everything so we will be able to play more once I am home and this should eliminate her need to stray when I am stateside but only home on the weekends again.

 

I want to thank everyone for their comments and different points of view, I really really needed someone to talk this out with before I discussed it all with my wife. We talked and neither one of us got upset so that has to be why I am feeling so good about everything. She assured me that she does love me and knows I love her, and she would never leave me. Now when I get back I look forward to having some real fun and actually enjoying what this lifestyle is really all about.

 

N

 

I want to for all you've done for our country to keep us free.

[tribbles 490]

I do think I was probably not open enough to her needs. I knew what they were when we got married.

 

Love her for who she is and give her the freedom to be that person. And share all the details with you (if you want them).

 

If she is accepted for who she really is, she will never leave. That is too valuable of a quality to walk away from.

 

I would bet she would be happiest in a totally open relationship, where she can play when she wants and tell you all about it before or after or both. Have you thought about it?

[safireblues 106]

As others have stated, you do know who your wife is: a person with a high sex drive who needs variety. She told you this up front. When you married her, like any person who gets married, you take her for better or worse and you can't start thinking you can change her. It's like marrying someone who smokes 2 packs a day, but then laying down ground rules about quitting or cutting down after you get married. The time to ask for change is before marriage, and if you can't handle the reality, don't marry that person.

 

You have a wife who will likely want to sleep with other men on a regular basis for the next 20 years plus. Can you handle that? If so, tell her to come clean, and work out a reasonable arrangement where you can both feel safe. Talk about all the risks, insist on regular testing, what will you do if she gets pregnant and you don't know who's baby it is.

 

Also, find out if there are underlying issues driving her to be this sexual. I'm a highly sexual female, but I can't imagine needing to sleep with that many different people during the week while my guy was away. Maybe a boyfriend or girlfriend on the side, but it's the sheer numbers that makes me think that she needs too much ATTENTION and that is a sign of a self esteem issue. I say that as someone who has been there.

 

From this point forward, though, she has to tell you the absolute truth, whole truth, etc. Your life and that of your child is paramount and you need to know what she's doing, who is in your house, and what she could be exposed to depending on what sex acts she is doing. Is she having unprotected sex? Is she on the pill? Sorry to be a bitch, but are you sure it's your child?

 

If you cannot trust her, then there is no relationship.

[ecoupleca 16]

Dude You can't trust your wife. Let her do what she wants and enjoy her as she wants to be enjoyed. Be safe and take care of yourself we are all proud of your service. Good luck. Return home safely.

[widowerman 55]

You know I have a story that my partner tells me, “Hey hon, if we’re at a party and some guy is doing me, nothing is stopping you from getting it on with another girl. That’s what this swinging is all about, one upmanship!” She would conclude with, “Besides, me seeing you or knowing you are getting it on with another woman turns me on like no body’s business!”

So her saying is, “Fuck like you’ve never fucked before! Just make sure to leave me some.”

 

So if your wife swings when you’re not there, is she cheating or trying to get a rise out of you? She admits she’s been with other men when you’re not there, why would she fess up and give up all the details? As for “so many men”, it seems like a double standard to me. So many men = experience. So many women = lust

 

Personally, I think she is trying to get a rise out of you for two types of sex; 1) revenge sex that you will have with another woman telling your wife how this other woman did this and that, 2) to get you hot enough to want to fuck her brains out.

 

She’s looking for that mind blowing orgasm we are all hoping for. Like it was already stated, you knew she was a swinger, you’ve swung with her. Did you really think she would settle down? Why? She enjoys sex and I’ll assume so do you.

 

And don’t forget to communicate, with each other and with your playmates. Sex is what it is, sex. Love has no definition that can be put into simple words or actions. Of all the strangest emotions love has no boundaries or limits. It can even transcend the grave. It’s the memories of a sunny day or a cold cloudy winter morning. Snuggling together or being worlds apart. And even those terms cannot say anything about love.

 

As for trusting your wife ever again, in what matters are you asking of trust? Trust in not enjoy herself; trust that you may not be her ultimate? That’s life and all of its faults and glories.

 

Without being clichéd about it, this too will all work its self out with realized dreams and surprises along the way. Live your life, get home safe, and above all if we are to fight let’s fight for something meaningful, like the end of war.

[ktimephoenix 156]

Personally, i don't think that the problem is with you. many people are great at reframing their mistakes as someone elses fault.

 

her saying that she effectively cheated because you weren't comfortable to play at swinger parties is an excuse. in my limited experience, swinging should move at the speed of the slowest partner. just like she expects you to meet her high sexual needs (either yourself or through giving permission), she has a responsibility to meet your needs (taking it slowly easing you into the lifestyle). sure she is a swinger, as am I and Mrs P. but we have an agreement that if something comes up in our relationship (issue/children/illness/job problems/whatever) that means that swinging needs to be put on the back burner for a while, or indefinately, then we are first and foremost a couple. our relationship comes first, above our sexual wants.

 

You mentioned that she was in the lifestyle with her previous husband, and that relationship ended from her dishonesty and her cheating... so her pawning the issue off on you, saying your not open minded enough, or what have you, is simply not true. the problem lies in her not being forfilled by the swinging relationship she has/had. that leads me to believe, like a previous poster, that she may have self esteem issues. A friend i lived with in uni would have sex with a different guy every night, yet she would say she hated sex. she worked out (long after it started effecting her wellbeing) that it wasn't sex she was seeking, but approval and acceptance from guys. sex was the "easiest" way she could get those feelings, if only for a night. she spent a long time going down a road of self discovery, and is now in a 100% monogomous relationship, and enjoys sex...

 

if your wife wants the privelage of having sex with men out of her marriage, then she has the responsibility to move at your pace until you are comfortable. what to do now? keep your head down and come back alive!!!

 

after that, you have to work on you two first. forget her "high sex drive" or "need for variety". that will just compound the issues you have to sift through. if she can't be monogomous for a couple of months while you two reconnect as a couple, then she hasn't got the best interest of the relationship at heart.

 

another question i hate to ask. Why do you let yourself get treated this way? would you tell your best friend/brother to put up with being treated like you are being treated?

[ncmd_couple 597]

For those of you who have ask, "so what about your needs?" He is in Iraq. If he gets to sleep in a rack and has any privacy, his needs are being satisfied by Rosie Palm.

[ktimephoenix 156]

For those of you who have ask, "so what about your needs?" He is in Iraq. If he gets to sleep in a rack and has any privacy, his needs are being satisfied by Rosie Palm.

 

 

on leave? there are huge clubs that have plenty of local women after a soldier from what a few of my returnee friends have told me.

 

and what about his needs while he was at home? or while he was posted at the base, during the week, while his wife was with the 5 other guys.

[Vjklander 138]

Only part of his post was about his time in Iraq. There is also his time in SD/PHX. Sounds like a classic cuckold scenario to me.

[ross_sally 9]

I think your solution was fair, you play when together, and she limits her playing to the number of times you and her agree to, WITH couples, when you are gone. But from what you said, you two are so different in regards to sexual needs/wants, she will not be able to follow your compromise.

 

If you try and control it, she will sneak it. But if you try and pretend it's OK, you will go crazy, as your value system appears to now want a faithful wife and mother more than a player.

 

I really agree with what safireblues said, all of it. You are going to need the whole truth. maybe even a DNA test.

 

Good luck, it's not easy, but you're a survivor!

[it'sso 198]

She was looking for a replacement when she met you.

It's my humble opinion that she still is, and you should be, too.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

So many men = experience. So many women = lust

 

 

You lost me here? Can you explain?

 

I am actually starting to feel a lot better about the whole thing. I do think I was probably not open enough to her needs. I knew what they were when we got married. She told me she wouldnt be with someonewho wasnt in the lifestyle and she needed to still be with people when I deployed. This is my first deployment since we have been married, and we agreed to her being able to be with couples a limited amount of time before she ever told me about the rest of it. So now that she has permission I dont think she will need to go outside of the boundaries.

 

As for what happened before the deployment, well I forgive her. Some weekends when I was home we would not always have sex and according to her we went 6 weeks without it once although I find that difficult to believe and she hasnt always been good with numbers lol. And I accept responsibility for us not always playing when we went out as I would normally being the one that said I was not comfortable.

 

You are allowed to not be comfortable and you should NEVER play if you aren't! Yes, you knew going into things that she has a high sex drive and expected an open marriage. I say open marriage because I don't think it's about swinging for her nearly as much as it is about her getting laid when/where she wants. If it was about swinging she would also be concerned with YOUR needs as well as her own and would be willing to take things at your pace. You are still in a relatively new relationship, shouldn't there be some thought (on her part) towards making the relationship work FIRST and foremost before worrying about involving others?

 

I'm glad you were able to talk to her openly and I hope that in doing so you both really did come to an agreement that will work for both of you. Don't let any of us tell you what is going to work for you because we don't know. Every relationship is different and you have to figure out what will make the relationship work for the two of you and you have to do that together. Don't allow her to put all the blame on you. Just as much as you may not have had sex as much as she would have liked, she could have made more of an effort to let you know something was lacking so that you could fix it. She could also have made more of an effort to control her urges. Relationships take TWO people to work and BOTH have to be willing to do their part and take their part of the blame when things aren't working. Continue to talk to her openly and encourage her to be open with you about what her needs are and what she wants to do and is doing. I hate that this is something you are having to deal with while being deployed. Please feel free to drop in here anytime you need some support and keep us updated with what is going on.

[Swing*8701 887]

Susan here-- I'd be interested in knowing how this man selected the number '3' as the number of times she could play without him and it would be okay. sounds like a ridiculous restriction. It's either okay or it isn't. We went to a Swing weekend party once that had twenty people: ten men and ten women. I could never imagine Ed saying,"You can have sex with just three other people this weekend."

 

Anyway. This woman is who she is and has not been any different than the day you met her. The problem is you for expecting her to be different than who she is. Moreover, there's nothing wrong with who she is other than it is not compatible with who you are. And,you're better off without her.

 

Sure, she may have enough psychological issues to fill a trailer truck, but they are hers to resolve, if she wants to.

[jimnjan 16]

Personally??? If that was me, she'd be gone. She cheated how many times now????

[ktimephoenix 156]

 

Anyway. This woman is who she is and has not been any different than the day you met her. The problem is you for expecting her to be different than who she is.

 

It's not unreasonable to expect people to be different in a relationship than they were when they were single...

 

When i was single, and Mrs P were single, we had open slather on picking up random strangers to sleep with. when we became a monogomous couple, we both expected each other to remain that way. even now we swing, we don't have the freedoms associated with being single.

 

sure you shouldn't expect to change a person (religion, political beliefs etc) in a relationship, but expecting them to uphold the responsibilities associated with being in a relationship? that is fair.

 

Mrs P smokes and drinks at the moment. i expect her to change and give both up when she falls pregnant. is that unreasonable on my part? or should i not expect it, and hope my baby isn't born with life altering deformities?

 

people are required to change to meet various new responsibilities in life. if she didn't want to change at all, why was she seeking a relationship?

[Swing*8701 887]

"people are required to change to meet various new responsibilities in life. if she didn't want to change at all, why was she seeking a relationship?"

 

That's the point--she never really was.

[ktimephoenix 156]

"people are required to change to meet various new responsibilities in life. if she didn't want to change at all, why was she seeking a relationship?"

 

That's the point--she never really was.

 

yet she married and had a kid with him... and he's the bad man for expecting her to live up to her end of teh responsibilities?

[Swing*8701 887]

I never said he was the bad guy. Never.

 

Here's what gets me and always does. Men and women do this all the time. They meet someone and the sex is absolutely burn the paint of the walls incredible. It's so good that the neighbors need a cigarette. Then they learn that when it comes to fidelity and monogamy, this person is not so good at that. In fact they're terrible at it and doubtfully will never be good at it.

 

So, this guy marries this woman and expects a different result. A different result despite placing her in the exact same environment, a soldier on deployment, where she cheated the last time. And, on top of that, he says it's okay to Play, but just limitedly. He's not a bad guy, but he is not realistic.

 

She's unrealistic too for marrying into expectations that she cannot meet.

 

If I have gasoline and a lit torch, you're going to have fire no matter how much the gasoline and the torch promise not to start a blaze.

[ktimephoenix 156]

I agree that if he wants her to be completely monogomous, that he isn't being realistic. he knew she enjoyed swinging, and found it important. however, someone has real issues (committment, self esteem or other) if they cannot put their sexual gratification on hold for a week (when he wasn't deployed), or limit it while their husband, and the father of their child, is fighting a war he potentially could get injured/killed in...

 

I love sex as much as the next person, but i'm sure i could wait a week for Mrs P, if she so desired.

[azcouple85379 22]

Wow, I am sorry I let this thread go so long without reading it. I dont know if I can ever answer all the questions in the many replies but I will try. Just not right now =) kind of busy with a few other things and the sun is coming up which means its time for the men in black to disapear.

 

One post that did stand out, but I do not recall the posters name, was about if she wanted to be in an open relationship which I have since asked her (before reading that post) and she says she does not.

 

Also I came up with the number three because that would give her a chance to play every few weeks until I got home. There is a couple (J&R) we are great friends with and have played multiple times that I told her she could play with as often as she likes without going against the three. The three would be with couples we (more specifically I) have never met.

 

Oh and one other thing, we dont get leave in country or stateside there is only our deployment. So as NMCD (think thats the correct order of the letters) said I have my tent, a little privacy, a few pictures of my wife (both with other men at parties and a few that she has snapped with her camera-phone) and ol' faithful for my needs while deployed. The reason the Army gets leave is because if you go over 180 days straight in country you receive $100 dollars a day pro-pay, so their units send them on two weeks R&R to avoid having to pay this. Our deployments are 180 days or shorter as we (Navy)are not an occupying force, were here more for a few specific targets then we go home.

[imsherona2 15]

That does make a BIG difference in my POV on the situation. I agree that knowing that she couldn't even last a week of seperation without cheating it was probably a bit much to think she could go 6 months. But the fact that she couldn't even make it a week without cheating and lying tells me there really are much bigger problems that need to be addressed. At this point I don't even think it's about swinging ... for her swinging is just a way to cheat with permission. You guys need councelling both as a couple and from the sounds of it she needs it on her own to work out her issues. She may have a sex addiction or it may be some other deep rooted issue (fear of committment, etc) that is causing her actions.

 

I whole heartedly agree with Julie on this one! After waiting and reading all the posts, including your responses, I believe that this is something way more than swinging. Take Julie's suggestions and run with them, seek some professional help when you get back and I wish you both the best of what life has to offer.

 

AND, I am thanking you as well for doing "your job" over there, be safe and come back soon and with any bit of luck, this will be over soon and you all can come home!!

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

I believe that this is something way more than swinging...

Yes, I think so, too.

 

Over the years I've talked with many spouses who have continued to put up with their husband/wife's behavior because they feel if they are patient, more understanding, and give just a little more they will see their spouse change their behavior and the relationship will be better. These people had issues unrelated to swinging.

 

What happens is the giver becomes an enabler for the spouse to continue with the disruptive patterns in their relationship because their spouse has learned that they can continue to take advantage of their spouse and be forgiven. The result is the giver loses themselves in it all. They are unhappy and become untrue to themselves.

 

azcouple8539, I worry that this could happen to you.

 

LM

[10thBadger 25]

On 6/2/2008 at 2:04 AM, ktimephoenix said:

Personally, i don't think that the problem is with you. many people are great at reframing their mistakes as someone elses fault.

 

her saying that she effectively cheated because you weren't comfortable to play at swinger parties is an excuse. in my limited experience, swinging should move at the speed of the slowest partner. just like she expects you to meet her high sexual needs (either yourself or through giving permission), she has a responsibility to meet your needs (taking it slowly easing you into the lifestyle). sure she is a swinger, as am I and Mrs P. but we have an agreement that if something comes up in our relationship (issue/children/illness/job problems/whatever) that means that swinging needs to be put on the back burner for a while, or indefinately, then we are first and foremost a couple. our relationship comes first, above our sexual wants.

 

You mentioned that she was in the lifestyle with her previous husband, and that relationship ended from her dishonesty and her cheating... so her pawning the issue off on you, saying your not open minded enough, or what have you, is simply not true. the problem lies in her not being forfilled by the swinging relationship she has/had. that leads me to believe, like a previous poster, that she may have self esteem issues. A friend i lived with in uni would have sex with a different guy every night, yet she would say she hated sex. she worked out (long after it started effecting her wellbeing) that it wasn't sex she was seeking, but approval and acceptance from guys. sex was the "easiest" way she could get those feelings, if only for a night. she spent a long time going down a road of self discovery, and is now in a 100% monogomous relationship, and enjoys sex...

 

if your wife wants the privelage of having sex with men out of her marriage, then she has the responsibility to move at your pace until you are comfortable. what to do now? keep your head down and come back alive!!!

 

after that, you have to work on you two first. forget her "high sex drive" or "need for variety". that will just compound the issues you have to sift through. if she can't be monogomous for a couple of months while you two reconnect as a couple, then she hasn't got the best interest of the relationship at heart.

 

another question i hate to ask. Why do you let yourself get treated this way? would you tell your best friend/brother to put up with being treated like you are being treated?

 

On 5/30/2008 at 4:39 AM, azcouple85379 said:

I am in the military and stationed in San Diego in Jan of 2007 I moved my family from San Diego to Phoenix so my wife could take and excellent job at a very large insurance company, Phoenix just also happens to be where I am from.

 

It was understood that we only played as a couple with other couples and this would happen when time allowed and I always drive home every weekend. While in PHX we went to a few clubs and a few house parties but never really found any couples that we were both attracted to enough to play although there were a few. I also made it clear to my wife that her cheating would end our marriage. I have to throw that in there because her cheating ended her last marriage while they were in the lifestyle, he was also military and it happened while he was deployed. I recently deployed to Iraq and am here as of this writing. Before I left my wife tried to start a conversation with me regarding her playing while I was gone that only got me upset and that was really all the further that went.

 

About a month and a half into my deployment I decided I was being unfair and consented to letting her play with a couple that are friends of ours that we have played with on several occasions. I also agreed that she could play 3 times during my six month deployment but only with other couples as it was a single guy that got her in trouble with her last husband when she wanted to keep him around after her husband got home. But I wanted to know honestly what she had done, if anything, since she had moved to PHX (there we some emails in our couples email account that made me suspicious) so I needed to know. She then confessed to sleeping with at least 5 other guys while I was away in San Diego during the week and 1 since I had left for deployment at a swing party. Two of the guys she slept with on more than one occasion, all at our house while our 2 year old son was asleep down the hall. The swing party was the weekend after I left for deployment. Three of the guys were from her work where she has now been passed over for promotion two times even though she is the top performer on her team. Not saying its related but she did say that her managers "golden boy" found out about her first trist by overhearing them talking about it at work and she says he has a big mouth.

 

She says it was just for sex and I believe her. She does crave variety and tells me often that even after she has sex with other guys that I am the best she has had. The problem I have is now I feel I cannot trust her because several times during the year I would ask if there was something else going on and she lied. Her reason was she didnt want to upset me. Even at the start of the deployment (before we agreed she couple play 3 times with other couples) she told me not to worry because she was not going to do anything and would not have men over to our house (also obviously a lie). I do NOT want to end our marriage I love her with all my heart. The other issue is that if I told her that her cheating would end our marriage and she did it anyway, then how much does she really value our marriage? I mean yes it was for sex but does she just come home to me because of the security or our son? The sex was obviously important enough that she would loose all of it to have it, so what do I do? How can I trust my wife again? Is it possible I can put this behind us? She says 3 times with couples will work for her (which now works out at about once per month) until I get home but how will I know she isnt calling up one of the other guys?

 

I told her when I get back I will be more proactive when we go to parties as I am kind of shy which is I guess another reason we dont always play at parties. She says when we go to parties and dont play it gets her all worked up and that was another reason she went outside our marriage.

 

I am sorry I probably jumped around alot its just how my thoughts spill out and if I go back to proof it I might end up changing things. Any help would be so very much appreciated.

 

N

 

*edited to change email notifications from daily to instant*

Badgers wife,

 

Having  been a military wife for 26 years, if you are not disgusted then I am disgusted for you. My husband neither gave me permission nor would I have excepted permission to cheat on my husband. You give your wife permission to have sex with other men while you were overseas and even though you gave her boundaries, she went beyond your boundaries without even thinking about it. You told her that if she cheated on you that would be the end of your marriage. That is exactly what your wife did to you. There is no way that you can trust her because she already has a history of cheating on her previous husband that was in the military  and he divorced her. Trust is earned not given, my husband was away for me 300 days out of the year either training or on tour somewhere in Europe. You deserve more respect than you are given by your wife and there is no way that I could see  you giving her a break or a pass because you love her.

 

Trust is the most important thing in a marriage. You can love someone, you can honor someone, have morality for someone, but without trust, you can have neither. Because you trust  this person with your love and that they will return this love, you can trust this person to be honorable to you and your marriage, you can trust that they will have morality for the sanctity of your marriage. But the keyword is TRUST!!!!

 

your wife showed you that she is not trustworthy and is not worthy of your trust. You are a military man, you deserve respect but most importantly you deserve trust from your wife while you are away. The idea that you would even consider giving this woman a chance after you have given her permission to take care of her sexual needs as she still went outside of the boundaries, shows you that she is not the caliber woman that you should be with. I know this may sound harsh but this one kind of hit me hard because I am a military wife and haven’t had a military man for a long time. You deserve better

[10thBadger 25]

On 5/30/2008 at 4:39 AM, azcouple85379 said:

I am in the military and stationed in San Diego in Jan of 2007 I moved my family from San Diego to Phoenix so my wife could take and excellent job at a very large insurance company, Phoenix just also happens to be where I am from.

 

It was understood that we only played as a couple with other couples and this would happen when time allowed and I always drive home every weekend. While in PHX we went to a few clubs and a few house parties but never really found any couples that we were both attracted to enough to play although there were a few. I also made it clear to my wife that her cheating would end our marriage. I have to throw that in there because her cheating ended her last marriage while they were in the lifestyle, he was also military and it happened while he was deployed. I recently deployed to Iraq and am here as of this writing. Before I left my wife tried to start a conversation with me regarding her playing while I was gone that only got me upset and that was really all the further that went.

 

About a month and a half into my deployment I decided I was being unfair and consented to letting her play with a couple that are friends of ours that we have played with on several occasions. I also agreed that she could play 3 times during my six month deployment but only with other couples as it was a single guy that got her in trouble with her last husband when she wanted to keep him around after her husband got home. But I wanted to know honestly what she had done, if anything, since she had moved to PHX (there we some emails in our couples email account that made me suspicious) so I needed to know. She then confessed to sleeping with at least 5 other guys while I was away in San Diego during the week and 1 since I had left for deployment at a swing party. Two of the guys she slept with on more than one occasion, all at our house while our 2 year old son was asleep down the hall. The swing party was the weekend after I left for deployment. Three of the guys were from her work where she has now been passed over for promotion two times even though she is the top performer on her team. Not saying its related but she did say that her managers "golden boy" found out about her first trist by overhearing them talking about it at work and she says he has a big mouth.

 

She says it was just for sex and I believe her. She does crave variety and tells me often that even after she has sex with other guys that I am the best she has had. The problem I have is now I feel I cannot trust her because several times during the year I would ask if there was something else going on and she lied. Her reason was she didnt want to upset me. Even at the start of the deployment (before we agreed she couple play 3 times with other couples) she told me not to worry because she was not going to do anything and would not have men over to our house (also obviously a lie). I do NOT want to end our marriage I love her with all my heart. The other issue is that if I told her that her cheating would end our marriage and she did it anyway, then how much does she really value our marriage? I mean yes it was for sex but does she just come home to me because of the security or our son? The sex was obviously important enough that she would loose all of it to have it, so what do I do? How can I trust my wife again? Is it possible I can put this behind us? She says 3 times with couples will work for her (which now works out at about once per month) until I get home but how will I know she isnt calling up one of the other guys?

 

I told her when I get back I will be more proactive when we go to parties as I am kind of shy which is I guess another reason we dont always play at parties. She says when we go to parties and dont play it gets her all worked up and that was another reason she went outside our marriage.

 

I am sorry I probably jumped around alot its just how my thoughts spill out and if I go back to proof it I might end up changing things. Any help would be so very much appreciated.

 

N

 

*edited to change email notifications from daily to instant*

Badgers wife
 

Just to make this clear, my husband did 17 tours including 11 of them in Iraq in Afghanistan. The last thing on my mind was worrying about sex but more so just worried about my husband coming home to me. The idea that you are deployed and you have to worry about your wife cheating on you is despicable. You deserve better