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Just reading the Menages Yahoo Group posts and it seems that as of last week they have now gone off-premise until further notice (and so has TSC, according to what is posted there). I'll post more once I can confirm directly what is going on. But from the sounds of it the Mayor is going after all adult venues and in an effort to stay ahead of the curve and give them less to go after the two on-premise clubs have decided to go off-premise.

 

Here's the letter that was read to the club members last week:

 

Quote
Ladies and Gentlemen and All Members of Menages

 

On behalf of myself and Gavin I would like to thank you all for coming tonight and for your continued support and patronage of our establishment. In the last few days it has came to our attention that certain government officials in the city of Nashville have teamed up with real estate developers in the interest of taking out and eliminating the presence of what they feel is immoral and distasteful entertainment in the downtown area which includes afterhours clubs, swing clubs and any and all adult entertainment. This of course, includes this very establishment itself, menages. However, we are determined to stand by our rights as a private club and obey and abide by the laws as we have from the day we opened our doors in September of 2000. What we do here at menages is 100% legal and

within all rights governed by the constitution of the United States. However, in the interest of being pro-active in this matter to protect our members and our business, a new set of rules shall come in effect immediately on this day until further notice. And those rules are ..... 1. no sexual contact is allowed on these premises including vaginal, oral or anal sex in any shape or form. This rule will be enforced and menages will become known as an off premise nightclub for consenting adults to meet and gather for entertainment purposes only. 2. Nudity IS ALLOWED anywhere in the club and nothing will change from that perspective. 3. All other rules such as no drugs, cameras, weapons or recording devices shall remain the same. 4. As usual, no person under the age of 21 will be permitted and no alcohol shall be sold.

 

Friends, I realize that some of you will not be affected by this rule, because you come here for the atmosphere and to meet other like-minded people in an environment that is safe and free of violence and danger. And others will be upset with this rule. But I ask you

to please understand that we are doing this in an effort to keep the doors open of this establishment and do whatever it takes to keep our members and business legal and safe....and we have no choice at this point and it must be done. From day one, Gavin and I

established the concept of menages as a meeting place for friends and consenting adults to engage in fun and dancing in a private, free-spirited and sexual atmosphere. A place that is more about the party and the fun without the attitudes and potential hazards at

other night clubs. The perfect nightclub and dance club with a sexual option. A place that is more about the foreplay instead of the money shot...if you will. That's what we are about and have been from day one. In a world of automation and impersonal interaction, our goal as always been bringing the human element back to business though personal service and interaction with our customers and friends here at menages. We care about each and every one of you and hope you will understand our decision at this time and continue to patronize this establishment. And remember, to practice safe sex wherever you may choose to do so.

 

Thank you.

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That raises a couple of questions:

 

1. Who's REALLY behind this change and what are their motives? The mayor is aware of costs vs benefits. How does he benefit? The "realestate developers" need a motivation too. Who are the invisible players? Who stands to potentially reap the biggest benefit? By getting to the real source of the motivation (usually money and power), the "victims" can respond to the changes more effectively. Perhaps it's time for some independent investigation.

 

2. Do clubbies percieve an off premis venu as having a lower desirability? I can see where some customers will take their business elsewhere - and sometimes that can be percieved as something positive by another group of customers. But the business still has to turn a proffit.

 

3. Is this part of a larger trend?

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And yet another question...

 

In the letter from the club announcing the change, they stated categorically that what goes on there is legal. Now, I'm no lawyer, and even if I were Tennessee is one of the few states of the union I've never visited, so I don't know the law, but let's presume that is a true statement. Why, then, the need to change the rules?

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I don't know the answers to those questions, other than to tell you that the two clubs in Nashville are pretty much the only on-premise venues that I know of within several states. They get a lot of folks driving in from KY, MS, AL, MO and across TN, so when you take that into consideration. If it those clubs no longer have the distinction of being off-premise there isn't really as much reason to drive so far to go there (when there are local off-premise clubs in all of those areas).

 

Atmosphere does play a big part and there will still be many who will attend based on that alone... but I think even with that, eventually many will decide that atmosphere alone is not worth the cost (monetary) of going.

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knb2004 said:
And yet another question...

 

In the letter from the club announcing the change, they stated categorically that what goes on there is legal. Now, I'm no lawyer, and even if I were Tennessee is one of the few states of the union I've never visited, so I don't know the law, but let's presume that is a true statement. Why, then, the need to change the rules?

 

That thought went through my head as well.

 

The feeling that I got was that while what they are doing now IS legal, that they are trying to stay ahead of the game and basically policing/restricting themselves in hopes that should the legality change they would be able to stay open with their new set of rules rather than get closed down because of their old set.

 

That said, I still can't help but wonder if there isn't more going on than is being stated. This is part of why I'm really wanting to find out if it is true that TSC has changed their policy as well.

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The response I just got from Al at TSC is that "nothing has changed" in regards to their status as an on-premise club.....

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That thought went through my head as well.

 

The feeling that I got was that while what they are doing now IS legal, that they are trying to stay ahead of the game and basically policing/restricting themselves in hopes that should the legality change they would be able to stay open with their new set of rules rather than get closed down because of their old set.

 

That said, I still can't help but wonder if there isn't more going on than is being stated. This is part of why I'm really wanting to find out if it is true that TSC has changed their policy as well.

 

Well, perhaps there's more going on here than meets the eye, or perhaps the club owners are being overly cautious. If on-premise activities are currently legal, and if a law change comes about that makes them illegal, they cannot be prosecuted for what happened before. It's called ex-post-facto, and is enshrined in our beloved constitution.

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That reminds me of an old story - when a bear is chasing the hunting party, you don't necessarily need to outrun the bear, just the other members of the party....

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Something to remember when fighting the government in this country.

 

Even though we have a constitution and even if you follow it, the government can still bring charges on you and make you fight to prove that you have the right per the constitution.

 

ANY TIME you get in a fight with the government it is VERY EXPENSIVE and takes years to win or lose when it comes to fighting for your rights in the constitution.

 

Sometimes many will try to second guess the actions and motives of a club owner when these fights start. The owners not only try to look out for the fun and pleasure of the members but they also have to look out for their own well being.

 

We have also found that MOST attorneys can not take on these fights when it comes to defending your rights within the constitution. There are very few that know how to battle a constitutional challenge.

 

Until you have had the pleasure of standing in an open court room in Front of a Federal judge to defend your constitutional rights you will never understand what is involved. I can promise you that much.

 

Shall be interesting how this turns out. Many club owners are not set to take on a major constitutional fight and I can understand when they change things to try to make this all go away. There are very few people in this country willing to give up all they have worked for their whole life to fight a fight like this. Even when you win, you lose. You can NOT recoup the loses and money spent when involved in a fight like this.

 

Been there, done that and it not near as much fun as it sounds like.

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Sad, but unfortunately, I think it is a sign of a coming trend. One of our local clubs has had to change how they do business, although they are still on premise. A lot of this has to do with the reality that swing club opponents are getting much more organized. In my role of helping our local club when they came under some official scrutiny lately, I came across a legal brief that was prepared with the sole intent of instructing legal teams in how to close swing clubs down. It is interesting reading, a lot of the ways that many clubs do business will have to be changed if they are to survive.

 

A good example is that I suspect that the clubs who require a donation are going to be a thing of the past. If this legal brief is accurate, case law supports the contention that if a donation is "required" to attend, it is not a donation, it is an entrance fee or cover charge. The importance of this is that it changes the rules under which these clubs operate. As soon as their so called donation is determined to be an entrance fee, they are no longer a private party, and instead are a night club, which in most locals has a whole new set of rules governing their operation, usually including a ban on sex and nudity.

 

One of the things I have been thinking about lately is the possibility that the TV show Swingtown, making more of the general population aware of swinging, will have a negative impact on swinging and more specifically local swingers clubs. I got to thinking about this the other day around some of my vanilla friends. It occurred to me that if they watched the show it would not be hard to put together, based on the things we do in our daily life that are similar to the shows characters, that we may be swingers. That thought has already changed some of the ways I interact with my vanilla friends in subtle ways.

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I had a moment or two of panic when I read here that TSC had gone off-premise. I checked the yahoo board for TSC and there was some talk of taming down things in the public areas (no below the waist nudity) but the private rooms were still available. But then the word was that Metro (Nashville government) was cracking down on the big "ADULT" signs of some of the local businesses (which should not be an issue for TSC, I don't know about Menage's).

 

I did learn a lot about the Metro Sexually Oriented Business Board (SOB for short). There has been discussions about the crack down on stripper clubs (dancers cannot be within 3 feet of customers) while there is nothing they can do about the swinger clubs. Maybe I will venture to one of the Board Meetings and become more educated.

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mosmis84 said:
I had a moment or two of panic when I read here that TSC had gone off-premise. I checked the yahoo board for TSC and there was some talk of taming down things in the public areas (no below the waist nudity) but the private rooms were still available. But then the word was that Metro (Nashville government) was cracking down on the big "ADULT" signs of some of the local businesses (which should not be an issue for TSC, I don't know about Menage's).

 

I did learn a lot about the Metro Sexually Oriented Business Board (SOB for short). There has been discussions about the crack down on stripper clubs (dancers cannot be within 3 feet of customers) while there is nothing they can do about the swinger clubs. Maybe I will venture to one of the Board Meetings and become more educated.

 

I remember that article from last year and thought it was pretty interesting.

 

I'm not a member of the TSC Yahoo Group and didn't have time to go hunt it down, so I just emailed Al, his response was that "nothing had changed" at TSC, however from the sounds of it perhaps things have changed A BIT at TSC, just not quite as much as they have at Menages.

 

When I got Al's response I couldn't help but wonder.... was Menages lying about TSC following the same POA in order to do damage control against members potentially leaving and going to TSC where on-premise is still game? Or was TSC just not putting the word out publicly to do their own damage control against people deciding not to visit because of the change?

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I don't know, tell me what a great community service I would be doing and I'll see if I can get laid on premise this weekend!

 

I was planning on doing some work but if you need me to investigate, I will! :lol:

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I don't know, tell me what a great community service I would be doing and I'll see if I can get laid on premise this weekend!

 

I was planning on doing some work but if you need me to investigate, I will! :lol:

 

I'm sure you could probably still get laid on-premise at either one if you are sneaky enough. I do wonder what they are saying at the door at TSC tho, and if it's the same.

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Vegas nailed it.

 

We had a club in Illinois which fought and won a bogus fire code charge, and the DA said they will keep bringing up these kind of charges and raiding the club, putting peoples names in the paper until it shuts down.

 

Pretty much, the law be damned.

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Oh, now I'm pissed. Why, oh, why can't people just leave me alone. I don't go to their churches and screw on the altar, they should stay away from my religion. I truly despise those that find it necessary to legislate my morality. :angry:

 

My solution is going to ultimately be the Church of Ted. Services to be held every Saturday night, clothing optional. Dancing, sacramental scotch and the laying on of hands, all protected by religious freedom. I feel the need to tend my flock already. Altar girls in Wicked temptations finest,confession booths with beds, ahhh, who's ready to be blessed?

 

Ted

(who's life calling is cult leader)

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These sort of issues are not up my alley, so anything I'm going to say is only wild guesses.

 

First thought, this has little, if anything, to do with how the Mayor and those who run the city feel about swinging or anything having to do with sex. I think city managers/planners have two priorities: keeping votes coming their way and making money for the city. One big way to keep money moving into a city is through real estate development and new business and those real estate guys have power, money, and persuasion.

 

Could the downtown area - where Menages is located - be in the process of renewal or maybe there is talk of it? I know our city has been working on renewal in the older parts of town for a few years with great success. They take long-abandoned buildings and turn them into posh condos and people gobble them up. Lots of new shops and swanky restaurants too. And all these developers want the best of the best sitting next to them. A swingers club or any business that may "bring down" the salability of an area being developed is a target for harassing laws.

 

Maybe developers could be looking ahead and trying to put laws in place that could shut Menages down. If Menages can't remain profitable under new laws, it closes and sells for less than it would now as an on-premise club. Developers then get the property they want.

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LikeMinds321 said:

Maybe developers could be looking ahead and trying to put laws in place that could shut Menages down. If Menages can't remain profitable under new laws, it closes and sells for less than it would now as an on-premise club. Developers then get the property they want.

 

You have a point there. As an off-premise, I don't believe Menage's can keep the doors open in its current location. Too many square feet to pay for, hell half the club will be useless in it's current configuration and it's a historical building so I'm sure there would be restraints on any major modifications.

 

Ted

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Vegas nailed it.

 

We had a club in Illinois which fought and won a bogus fire code charge, and the DA said they will keep bringing up these kind of charges and raiding the club, putting peoples names in the paper until it shuts down.

 

Pretty much, the law be damned.

 

If they actually had the stones to say that out loud, I would think they'd win a malicious prosecution case in about a nanosecond, not to mention some kind of injunction. I would think it would be safer to have that particular case heard by a judge, I'd be more concerned about some hater juror ignoring the law than a judge.

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Oh, now I'm pissed. Why, oh, why can't people just leave me alone. I don't go to their churches and screw on the altar, they should stay away from my religion. I truly despise those that find it necessary to legislate my morality. :angry:

 

My solution is going to ultimately be the Church of Ted. Services to be held every Saturday night, clothing optional. Dancing, sacramental scotch and the laying on of hands, all protected by religious freedom. I feel the need to tend my flock already. Altar girls in Wicked temptations finest,confession booths with beds, ahhh, who's ready to be blessed?

 

Ted

(who's life calling is cult leader)

 

Ya know, this is pretty much exactly what Pet and I were discussing earlier tonight.... on both counts... the idea that we aren't out trying to shut down their churches... and that perhaps we should start a church where swinging is part of the religion... then they wouldn't have a ground to stand on.

 

 

You have a point there. As an off-premise, I don't believe Menage's can keep the doors open in its current location. Too many square feet to pay for, hell half the club will be useless in it's current configuration and it's a historical building so I'm sure there would be restraints on any major modifications.

Ted

 

We were wondering this too... if they will leave the upstairs open and just have extra staff to "police" the area... or will they totally close off those areas.

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JustAskJulie said:
Ya know, this is pretty much exactly what Pet and I were discussing earlier tonight.... on both counts... the idea that we aren't out trying to shut down their churches... and that perhaps we should start a church where swinging is part of the religion... then they wouldn't have a ground to stand on.

 

We were wondering this too... if they will leave the upstairs open and just have extra staff to "police" the area... or will they totally close off those areas.

 

My first disciples, leaders in the flock

 

Ted

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I suppose we can alternate wearing the robes and worshiping. Yep, sounds like fun. And our church will be all about fun.

 

Ted

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i suppose we can alternate wearing the robes and worshiping. Yep, sounds like fun. And our church will be all about fun.

 

Ted

 

members tithe?

 

:EG:

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TNT said:
i suppose we can alternate wearing the robes and worshiping. Yep, sounds like fun. And our church will be all about fun.

 

Ted

 

Somehow I'm guessing that we can get lots of followers :facelick:

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I'm just a hick Okie, and I don't know much about the swing club business, but my guess is that the change at Menages is driven by one thing: This is an election year. Politicians are looking for free ink in the press. After November, look for the situation to go back to normal.

 

Years ago I was a sales rep for a motorcycle leather clothing company. One of my customers was an adult boutique. They owned several stores, including an arcade where soft porn (legal in Oklahoma) was shown.

 

Just before an election, the manager told me that an agreement had been struck between the owner and the District Attorney. On the coming Saturday night, the police would raid one of their arcades and shut it down. The owner wanted to close the arcade anyway because it had become unprofitable. In return, the D.A. would leave them alone for five years.

 

Sure as hell, Sunday Morning's Tulsa World carried a front-page article about the raid with a picture of a smiling D.A. He won the election.

 

And I thought his job was to fight crime...

 

Mr. Alura

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TNT said:

 

My solution is going to ultimately be the Church of Ted. Services to be held every Saturday night, clothing optional. Dancing, sacramental scotch and the laying on of hands, all protected by religious freedom. I feel the need to tend my flock already. Altar girls in Wicked temptations finest,confession booths with beds, ahhh, who's ready to be blessed?

 

Ya know, I've been a member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (Pastafarian) for a couple years now.

But, your church sounds intriguing, and as a potential convert, I would like to receive your newsletter.

 

(FSM link for the uninitiated.)

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two4youinswva said:
Ya know, I've been a member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (Pastafarian) for a couple years now.

But, your church sounds intriguing, and as a potential convert, I would like to receive your newsletter.

 

(FSM link for the uninitiated.)

 

I too have been touched by his noodley appendage but I'm sort of agnostic about marinara sauce.

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It appears that the issues have blown over and the lawyers have decided that it's once again ok for Menages to be an on-premise club.

 

I still don't know what went down exactly, but I still say I'd rather see a club make a change (even for a short time) to cover their asses and mine, than to have them do nothing and risk both.

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      They both started cleaning up a little and I slowly came out of the crowd that had gathered. She saw me and gave me that dirty little smile she sometimes gets. My wife asked me if I had enjoyed her show. She said she needed to have a little more cum in her pussy tonight and she now wanted mine. Her new little friend just kind of sat back in the corner and decided to watch us.
       
      I knew I wouldn’t last long because I had almost cum multiple times just watching her. With some of the crowd still watching I got undressed, and slid my wet with pre-cum cock into my wife’s cum-loaded pussy. I fucked her until she started cumming. Her cunt convulsed so hard that it squeezed my cock and made me start to cum. I came in her pussy, mixing my cum with my wife’s new fuck buddies cum. I pulled my cock out and watched it all slowly slide down her ass. She got up and went over to our young fuck buddy and she gave him a long passionate kiss and said thank you for such a great time. He gave her one last little finger fucking and handed her a card of his if we were ever in the area again.
       
      He left after he got dressed and we got cleaned up and went out to the main room. I had multiple people including women and even the bartender say that my wife was one of the women they would like to fuck if they ever got a chance after seeing her in action. I guess I’m the lucky one here.
       
      Later that night when we were driving to our resort, she slipped her hand down pants and put her fingers in her pussy. She brought them out and rubbed them on my face. She smiled and said we gotta do this again sometime as we pulled into the parking lot to call it a night.
       
      And what a night it was.
    • By SPaige24
      My husband and I have been together for almost 10 years. I have always been bi- curious, but kept it as secret until the last month. Little did I know that he had a small feeling (thanks to a few drunk nights with my friend). Our marriage is very strong, and we are very opened with each other. I told him that I wanted to have a have sexual encounter with another female. He is on board, and we even talked about a MFM threesome as well.
       
      Here is my issue... How do I find someone? That friend is no longer a friend, I can't do dating apps because of my job, and I personally don't want someone we know. I have looked into Swinger Clubs, and I realize that finding a bisexual/lesbian female who is single is hard. We are opened to a couple if need be. I just want my husband there and or involved.
       
      My question is... What is it like going to a swingers club? Will there be people our age (27-30), are "predators" real, and how do I find a club? We are located in Washington, PA.
    • By AdamGunn2
      It was a fairly typical night at D.J.s Island, an early autumn evening. Mary and I hadn’t set anything up in advance, we’d decided to go almost at the last moment. From the second we entered the door our radar was beaming across the club, searching for a couple that might be searching for what we were also interested in - an enjoyable tryst.
       
      Mary took a few minutes to change into what she called a ‘trolling outfit.’ As I remember, that night it was a black babydoll with a loose bodice, thong, low heels. Many men admired her legs as I checked the forty or so women, many as scantily clad as my wife. None of our regular playmates seemed to be in attendance that evening, but we had our customs, we weren’t concerned. Perhaps an hour and a half later, I sat at a table next to the dance floor, Mary was on her feet, on the parquet, moving her body, seeing if anyone would move in. A slow sequence of men approached her, danced with her. Some would take liberties such as moving their hands under her garment, feeling the small of her back, perhaps place their palm on the roundness of her ass.
       
      I’d seen this many times before, I waited for one of two reactions.
       
      The first was that she’d spin away from the man; it signified she wasn’t interested in what he had to offer.
       
      The second was that she’d get closer, I’d watch her whisper in his ear. I knew the question, “Where’s your wife?” Some of them would shake their heads, they were attending as one of the few single men the club allowed, and when they received Mary’s response, they’d move away - that’s not what we were looking for at the moment.
       
      But the man might indicate where his wife was dancing a few feet away. When this kind of thing happened, Mary would glance to me and give our special signal - she’d put one hand on the back of her head, one on her stomach. When I got the cue, I’d come out, we’d dance as a foursome.
       
      As I approached, a man grasped the elbow of a tall attractive lady who was more modestly dressed, at least for the club. There was no conversation on the dance floor, the heavy volume of music and the thumping of the bass wouldn’t allow for speech. But I could tell the woman was interested in me, the four of us paired off and I often found myself facing this vixen. It was obvious they were as interested in us as I was in them, I could tell by the way Mary was rubbing against the man that she felt the same.
       
      After a couple of songs, Mary led the way off the floor, holding his hand, leading us off into a corner away from the speakers. As we sat, the man said, “I’m Ed, this is my wife, Marilyn.”
       
      Marilyn and I softly shook hands, I believe she raised the hem of her skirt to give me a view of her upper thighs. Ed had no problem seeing Mary’s legs, or where they met - she was sitting so that the babydoll was gathered to her side, leaning forward so her globes were exposed to his view.
       
      “Do you come here often?” Ed asked.
       
      “Every few weeks,” I responded, “you?”
       
      “This is our first time here.” Mary gave him a look that asked for further info. “We’re just starting this,” he admitted.
       
      Marilyn picked it up. “We’ve only had one time with a couple of friends. We liked it, heard about this place, decided to see if we could get into more trouble.”
       
      “Trouble’s our middle name,” I joked.
       
      Our conversation continued, where do you live, what movies have you seen lately, etc. It was a screen, of course, we were all calculating if the four of us would be pleasurable bedmates. I paid my attention to Marilyn, my wife had told me numerous times not to worry about her, she can take care of herself. My hand found Marilyn’s knee, she smiled at me, encouraged me to reach a tad higher. We bent towards each other, our mouths met.
       
      Marilyn opened her lips to me, the kiss was ardent, her mouth moist. She licked at my upper lip, her hand fondled the back of my neck. Our tongues clashed, promising cupidity, mimicking what I presumed our bodies might be doing in a few scant moments.
       
      We broke for a moment, Marilyn invited, “Would you guys want to go to one of the rooms?”
       
      I, of course, was all for it, but then I heard Mary. “Uh, not right now. But thanks.”
       
      We’ve always had the guideline that if one person doesn’t want to do something, she speaks for both of us. Regretfully, I pecked at Marilyn’s lips a last time, we stood, went separate ways.
       
      “You’re not upset, are you?” Mary asked me.
       
      “Of course not, not at all. You’re not in the mood?”
       
      “Oh, I’m in the mood all right, just not with Ed.”
       
      “Something wrong with him?” I asked.
       
      “I tried to get him interested,” Mary revealed, “but his kiss was a little cold, indifferent. I put my hand on his leg, he was too busy watching you and Marilyn, he never responded. My guess is that if we went into a room, he’d be watching you two, I’m not even sure he’d get hard for me.” It was a reasonable thought, it had happened to us a couple times before. “Hope you don’t mind, bet she’d have been a firecracker.”
       
      “Maybe. But you’re a firecracker too.”
       
      We headed back to the dance floor, in search of another couple.
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