A single male asks "WHY?"

[LFM2 1,482]

We got an email this morning from a "single" male. I'm always honest and will write back and tell them that we're just not looking for a single male at this time, but we'll keep them in mind when we're ready to look again, or... in this guys case, I honestly told him he had a couple of red flags in his post and profile and that while we appreciated his interest in us, no thanks. He actually wrote back and asked what red flags popped up. I also wrote that back as you guys can see.

 

Here's a copy of the emails:

 

HIM:

Hello

I read your profile and would love to get together. I am home alone all week if your interested in meeting. I am attractive,discreet,fit,std and drug free. I work in a job which this must be discreet so I can't put a photo on here. But if you have one and we want to get together I will send one. I hope to hear from you. I promise you wont be disappointed.

 

Mrs. LFM:

Thanks for the e-mail, but no thanks. We read your profile too, and to be honest, there were too many red flags that we noticed in your message and your profile.

 

HIM:

Red Flags Really what red flags may I ask. Thought I was being honest. Guess not to some people. Would like to know the red flags lol.

 

Mrs. LFM:

In the original email you sent, it's weird for a single male to say he'll be "alone" all week and would like to play. Single males are usually alone all the time. Just an observation. (Maybe in your case, you have kids that live with you and they're gone for vacation or something, but usually they will explain that in the primary email) In your profile, you say you prefer NOT to say if you're married or single in the marital status part. In our experience, this usually means the guy is married and is trying to screw around on his wife. We do know a lot of married men who do play, but they also have their wife's permission. We're not saying you're a cheater, but your profile appears too obscure to think you're not. Just our opinion.

 

Good luck in finding what you're looking for.

 

Are you this honest with single males? Have they ever written back and asked you what you meant and why?

 

I know I also hit a nerve with this guy, and it's not that we don't play with single men, but I'm certainly not going to give a chance to this guy who can't put up a picture (even a faceless one) because of his job. I just don't buy it.

 

Holly

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

The first thing I noticed that left you open for the explanation was that the way you worded your response

Thanks for the e-mail, but no thanks. We read your profile too, and to be honest, there were too many red flags that we noticed in your message and your profile.

would imply to me that you would be interested in him if it were not for the red flags. Therefore he's trying to figure out what he can do to still get with you. I don't think he really cares about the actual red flags as much as figure out if there's a way he can overcome YOUR objections.

 

While we aren't looking for single men, we have a little group on SLS and single men are allowed to join, if they don't have a photo on their profile they are automatically rejected. I'd say we actually have a pretty big double standard on single males vs. couples... in general we don't care about certifications, we don't accept them and we don't give them. But when it comes to allowing single men to join our group, they must have a photo and a really great profile or some very glowing certs from others in the group.

[iapr 24]

A couple things.

 

#1. any time you write back with a reason of why you are not wanting to get together they are going to write back and try to explain why your reasons are not valid or do not apply to them. Some will even be nasty and abusive about it. this also applys to couples and single fems.

 

#2. if you are going to write back to every single male and explain why you think they are a cheater and their message or profile is suspicious you are going to need a secretary and a staff of writers and whole lot of bandwidth because there are millions of them out there. It's like trying to get rid of a colony of ants by stamping on them one at a time. I am being judgemental but IMHO a cheater does not deserve the keystrokes of a polite response. Delete and go on about your business.

 

#3. By explaining the red flags to him you have now created an EDUCATED cheater who is going to try and cover his tracks better next time.

[LFM2 1,482]

A couple things.

 

#1. any time you write back with a reason of why you are not wanting to get together they are going to write back and try to explain why your reasons are not valid or do not apply to them. Some will even be nasty and abusive about it. this also applys to couples and single fems.

 

which is why we usually don't give them a reason. Just that we're not interested. This one just made me be extra honest this morning. By the time I got the second email, I thought it was a "fuck you" thing.

 

#2. if you are going to write back to every single male and explain why you think they are a cheater and their message or profile is suspicious you are going to need a secretary and a staff of writers and whole lot of bandwidth because there are millions of them out there. It's like trying to get rid of a colony of ants by stamping on them one at a time. I am being judgemental but IMHO a cheater does not deserve the keystrokes of a polite response. Delete and go on about your business.

 

Which is what we don't do. I did it just this one time.

#3. By explaining the red flags to him you have now created an EDUCATED cheater who is going to try and cover his tracks better next time.

 

Which kind of scares me. I have no idea if he was a cheater or not, but if he was, he can hide his tracks now.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

The first thing I noticed that left you open for the explanation was that the way you worded your response

I noticed this too. This is okay IF we want to hear back from someone, but if we don't want to leave the door open we don't leave any room for them to write back with questions.

 

I've found that even replying, "thanks but we're not interested at this time" has left people hopeful and that wasn't our intent. We weren't interested now and know we won't be in the future, so I leave the "at this time" out of my replies.

 

My feeling about giving anyone who has red flags in their profile (or through how they communicate) any help or advice is that I would be telling them how they can possibly con other's into thinking they are something they are not.

 

This guy is probably married, or living at his parent's house, or who the heck knows what, but he doesn't sound like a good prospect for us so I figure why should I help him do better if he's not what we'd want because of the red flags that warned us to stay away from him.

 

LM

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

#3. By explaining the red flags to him you have now created an EDUCATED cheater who is going to try and cover his tracks better next time.

 

that thought had crossed my mind as well. If he "gets" what you are saying and he really is a cheater then he's just going to make the appropriate steps to ensure that what you saw in his profile isn't there for the next person.

[Zoe&Wash 93]

Hello

I read your profile and would love to get together. I am home alone all week if your interested in meeting. I am attractive,discreet,fit,std and drug free. I work in a job which this must be discreet so I can't put a photo on here. But if you have one and we want to get together I will send one. I hope to hear from you. I promise you wont be disappointed.

 

You could've just said it's because he can't use apostrophes correctly, and this is a lifestyle where it's vitally important to know the difference between "possessive you" and "action you".

 

W

[LFM2 1,482]

I think my original question was ignored. It wasn't a critique my reply type of question, but have you ever been this honest with a "single" male? We all talk about being honest with each other, but have you ever really told him the truth about why you won't play with him instead of the generic, "Thanks, but no thanks" type of reply.

[LFM2 1,482]

You could've just said it's because he can't use apostrophes correctly, and this is a lifestyle where it's vitally important to know the difference between "possessive you" and "action you".

 

W

 

He has problems with punctuation marks as well.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Are you this honest with single males? Have they ever written back and asked you what you meant and why?

In e-mails we just try to say no thanks if they have no pics and tell them thats the primary reason.

 

We have jobs also, but I know for a fact when we first got on board with SwingLifestyle. We new shortly, it was all about some sort of pics. We went to extremes back then to provide something so we could at least grant permission then remove the access at the point of no interest... I could never for the life of me, understand why a single guy looking seriously, can't at least put up a private pic. Then open it to possible couples like us. Then just remove the dang permission if we reject them

 

We don't block single men so until it becomes a specific user being bothersome we accept mails. Really its the chats that would be where we would be contacted more often anyhow while on line. Thats usually where we say why, if its their profile.

 

We know for a fact, just like last nights successful meeting with a single male. There are more of the few good ones out there now with pics, if we want to contact them. I think they are catching on to what it takes if they are authentic. They know.....

[Chicup 41]

#3. By explaining the red flags to him you have now created an EDUCATED cheater who is going to try and cover his tracks better next time.

 

That was my thought too.

 

Bad profiles are natures way of alerting you 'do not touch'. If someone else helps polish the profile you are no longer getting an honest impression.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

I think my original question was ignored. It wasn't a critique my reply type of question, but have you ever been this honest with a "single" male? We all talk about being honest with each other, but have you ever really told him the truth about why you won't play with him instead of the generic, "Thanks, but no thanks" type of reply.

We don't tell singles or couples why we won't meet or play with them since we learned early on that this approach tends to work better for everyone.

 

The generic reply is the truth. We are being honest. We don't want to meet/play with him. We prefer not to explain why.

 

LM

[Guest theCHERRYSs]

We had a couple of experiences with single males. One was online and referred by another couple we knew. This guy said everything that he should have said. Answerecd every question as if he had a cheat sheet in front of him. When it came to my last question, he answered it honestly. Would you swing if you had a girlfriend or a wife to participate with you? He said he wouldn't want his girlfriend or his wife to be in this lifestyle. When asked why, he replied that he didn't think men who truly loved their wives would have them in this lifestyle Needless to say that encounter didn't happen.

 

The other contact we had was with a persistent guy who was always funny and kind online and knew that my husband and I weren't accepting single males for play. He would always seem to drop us a line every now and then. Finally he asked why we wouldn't play with single males and when we told him, he went out and found a friend to play with my husband so we could play. Once again, we gave him the answer he needed to get what he desired. It was kind of a turn on to me that he was so persistent though. The playtime wasn't all that it could be. Once we were all in the room together, he couldn't perform because of the excitement of him finally getting what he wanted

 

I guess the first encounter illustrates honesty from the perspective of the single male. It's not always a question of are we (swinging couples) ever this honest with single males. What if they are as honest with us? Some of them really feel as if they need to sow their royal oats before settling down with a wife or committed relationship.

 

The second encounter illustrates what I felt the comments to this post were saying. If you answer the question of "why" from a single male then you give them the ability to correct or alter their game plan in order to get what they want.

 

If you don't want to get with a single male then it might be best to just leave it at that. If you try to give them "pointers" on their profile shortcomings then you end up playing right into their schemes (if they are trying to be cunning or clever). If you want to get with them but aren't sure, then roll up your sleeves and start doing your homework to find the right "fit." They aren't all bad, some are here to fulfill a need....on both ends.

[absingleman 178]

This was a good topic. Now, once again, I'm going to give the single guy who used to be part of a couple point of view.

 

Honesty doesn't have to go further than "Sorry, we are not interested. Good luck, though." Anything more says to a single man, "We would want to, but you didn't say or do enough of the right things." Remember, most single men have sex with single women, not couples. Most single men are CONDITIONED to pursue single women by asking them why they are saying "Sorry, not interested." From my two years in a relationship that almost ended in marriage, I know I lost that hunter edge and just moved on when we didn't get that definite yes. I was with a woman who was the most important person on this world to me, and I had no time for anyone who didn't want to be with us, no matter how attracted I/she/we were attracted to her/them. It took me almost four years to regain that hunter's instinct when it came to dating, and it takes a lot of self control to reign those instincts in when it comes to swinging.

 

I could defend the guy and say that he has roommates (if he's single there's a fifty-fifty chance he lives with one or two other guys if he's under fifty in today's economy) and they have gone away for the weekend, but that should have been in his profile. Its in mine and its not something I try to hide. It explains who answered the phone when I'm not home and why I have such a small window of opportunity. If he is a cop, school teacher, or in the military, having a public picture (especially if he has tatooes) could be a problem, especially if he is new to his job. Again, that should be in his profile. I know many teachers who won't swing with anyone within 100 miles of their home town for that reason. Bottom line, he doesn't know the ropes yet. Don't know how he's going to learn, but that is his problem. He will work it out eventually.

 

Still, it was a good topic. Personally, I always leave it at "Sorry, not interested. Good luck, though." Most couples and single women accept that and move on. The ones who don't get ignored.

[sweet_tna 680]

Granted, we don't play with single males, but I found this thread interesting. While the "caretaker" side of me wants to help someone out, the rest of me says if I see warning flags, I should walk away and leave 'em flying for the next couple who comes along. The latter side usually wins out.

 

Couples and singles you're declining really don't need a reason, though many of us seem to do it anyway. For those of us compelled to provide a reason, it should be kept simple and to the point. "We're not looking for single males/new couples/green giraffes," should suffice.

 

=)

[Playful1 434]

This is why i never give a reason when I tell someone I'm not interested. I either say just that and thank them for their interest, or, I say something a little softer like 'i dont think we'd be a good match'.

 

Otherwise I get e-mails back asking me to clarify/explain, etc. and trying to convince me wrong. Not to be mean, but I don't owe them an explanation. Particularly if they haven't followed what i ask in my profile (that single men not write me, or that they include a password for locked pics).

[WeMayTryIt 120]

#3. By explaining the red flags to him you have now created an EDUCATED cheater who is going to try and cover his tracks better next time.

This is why we're never specific, we just say sorry, we don't think we're compatible. If we give them more, they're likely to tweak their profile to get rid of the red flags, even though the reality of the situation hasn't changed.

[LFM2 1,482]

Now that this thread was brought up again, today, I thought I'd go back and see if he'd tweeked his profile. Ya know, he didn't. He still had red flags all over the place. Oh well.

[Chicup 41]

Now that this thread was brought up again, today, I thought I'd go back and see if he'd tweeked his profile. Ya know, he didn't. He still had red flags all over the place. Oh well.

 

Its natures way....

[Mr.Essex 264]

Now that this thread was brought up again, today, I thought I'd go back and see if he'd tweeked his profile. Ya know, he didn't. He still had red flags all over the place. Oh well.

 

As a single male, it took me a long time to figure out how to write my profile. If his profile isn't getting enough bait, he'll tweak it for maximum effectiveness.

[twoforone100 45]

#3. By explaining the red flags to him you have now created an EDUCATED cheater who is going to try and cover his tracks better next time.

 

 

 

 

We agree if you help them get better then the next couple who is looking for a single male does not get one but a " cheater" who is smarter.

 

 

We worry about this with couples too.. some of them are not " couples" and we worry about helping "them" get better too..

[Dave_kat 227]

We got this email for the club we work with a few months ago, and figured we'd share it, after this thread popped back up. Please keep in mind the stats are specific to our area and the time it was written.

 

From a single male who visited the club webpage and left a response:

 

"Your membership page popped up after I submitted my inquiry. Its just a shame

that myself as a single will be discriminated against for membership !"

 

Now Dave, who is all for equal oppourtunity and the rest, decided to reply:

 

"I hope that I am not wasting my time writing this email, but your comment in this email ranked up there as one of the reasons that single males feel persecuted while in the lifestyle.

 

Mind you, I write this not as the webmaster, but as a male member of a lifestyle couple. I fully expect that you will delete this email without reading further, but if you do choose to read on, and I hope you do, perhaps there is hope for you to join the two single males who ARE fully accepted in the club. Yes, we do accept select single males.

 

I used SwingLifeStyle to run some numbers, and did a search of people within 50 miles of my zipcode. I found the following:

205 Single Males

570 Couples

52 Single Females

 

By my simple math, this implies there are 775 men and 622 women involved in the lifestyle within 50 miles of my home. This translates to about 1.2 men for every woman, or 6 men for every 5 women.

 

By simple laws of supply and demand, this means that the ladies would have their choice in what they desire. This is evident in any Lifestyle event, as the women generally decide what action happens.

 

This is not to say that those single men do not fill a niche. There are women who want 2 men at a time. Yet there are also women who want another woman and their man. The potential combinations are endless.

 

Now, speaking to you from 12 years of experience in the lifestyle, the trends I have personally observed are as follows:

 

Another search on SwingLifestyle yielded:

147 couples where both members were straight.

10 Couples with a bi or bi-curious male (female str8)

383 couples with a Str8 man and bi or bi curious female

 

My personal experience tells me that bi or bi curious females tend to desire other bi or bi curious females in the mix. Now that doesn't leave out them possibly wanting a mfm session, but it does drastically reduce the odds of that.

 

Even with these numbers, and you can guess where this leads, percentage wise, males will tend to get left out of play more than women do. Realistically, you can expect that maybe 1 out of 10, and I'm being generous here, of the couples will actually seek a single male for play over a couple or a single female. If you have 30 couples at a dance, 3 might want a single male for play.

 

These are all based on personal observations. There are very few lifestyle clubs in the United States who will admit more than a few single males on any given night. In addition to the above, which shows a prediliction of couples desiring female-female interaction, there are other issues as well.

 

1. As an Alpha Male (I am a Soldier and take charge type), I am naturally more aggressive in my actions than a female. While in this day and age is not appropriate to say, the truth of biochemisty is just that. I have to be careful to not be too forward with others, and my wife helps stabilize that in myself as the wives do in other couples. Single males do not have that safety, and is often evident in their behavior in lifestyle clubs. Chasing the ladies, not accepting no for an answer, or thinking that they should be included in everything. This leads to single men achieving the poor reputation of not having the manners or the self-control required to survive in a female driven event. I personally know very few women who get aroused anywhere near as much as a male (the old study says males think about sex 6 times in an hour).

 

2. This leads further to the question asked by many ladies. "Why would I want this man if some other woman hasn't picked him out?"

 

3. Single males have a job to do to prove that they are in the lifestyle for any reason other than for stringless sex with a married woman, without having to develop their own relationship. I'll not go into what this says about maturity. It can be done, but does take repeatedly proving that you are meritorious of that kind of trust. Again I say this because there are 2 males in our small membership who have proved this, and we accept them.

 

Now, in my opinion, if you have actually read this far into this email, and haven't responded with the simple "fuck you" that I also expect, then let me leave you with this thought:

 

Webster's defines swinger as:

–noun 1.a person or thing that swings.

2.Slang. a lively, active, and modern person whose activities are fashionable or trendy.

3.Slang. a.a person who indulges in promiscuous sex.

b.a person who engages in the exchanging of spouses for sexual activities..

 

 

Yes a single male can count as a swinger by definition 3a, but most males cannot accept a role where the women do have complete control over all of the actions. If you are different than such, you have a chance to become accepted in a world where adults will make adult decisions based on their own desires. I will tell you that a lot of couples see single men as a dime a dozen, while they call single bi-sexual females "unicorns" based on the rarity of the mythical creature. You have to strongly differentiate yourself from that preconception.

 

I will also leave you with this fact. On 1 Jan 2009, I posted pictures of the new year's event and how wild it went. I'm sure you have seen those. Prior to 1 Jan, our hit counter was at 1709. As of 8 pm EST on 6 Jan, our hit counter is at 2376. For a webpage that has existed for over a month now, that is 600 people having hit the site in less than 6 days.

 

Another statistic. I built the member's area and posted it at 1000 am on Sunday, 4 Jan. In that time, we have had requests from 57 people to join. 14 were single males, 18 were from couples in the area who have not attended parties and do not have club memberships, and 23 were from couples who have attended our parties. At this time, there are 23 members in the members area.

 

Now tell me this. What has happened that our hits increased so much? I did not change anything other than to add some risque pictures from the party. Why is this the 2nd email from a single male complaining that we will not allow him into the club?

 

If you want into the club, I advise you of the following. Prove yourself to a couple that is a member, or find a single woman who wishes to participate with you, and sign up for an event. We don't deny couples to bring who they want, as long as everyone is over 21. We do place strict guidelines on behavior of single males because combined, between the owners of the club and the "staff", we have over 150 years experience in the lifestyle, and our EXPERIENCE bears out that single males often do cause problems and will drive members away. Notice our experience directly reflects the experiences of 99% of the lifestyle clubs in existence in the united states.

 

You claim prejudice against single males. So I advise you to prove yourself as different. Once you do, you are accepted by people in this lifestyle. Have some couples that you have played with refer you, and you will find a much different experience.

 

Now, if you have an intelligent response to my experience, and the experience of those around me, I'm sure we'd love to hear it. I have blind carbon copied this to several of the staff of this club because I send this email openly. I speak for myself, and I may get berated by my boss for doing so, but I take this action because if someone claims I am prejudiced against them, I have the right to explain where my "prejudice" comes from, and to have an intelligent argument with regards to it. They may agree with me, they may not, but I do know this from experience. IF you can prove yourself different, given the chance, Lifestyler's are very accepting people."

 

Needless to say, we never did get a response back.

[interested-05 135]

for us the truth with single males is this; we only play with couples who interest us. we do not dislike single males but we are not looking for single males. If we decide to play with single males we will change our profile, until then dont write us. If you do write us anyway, we consider you a "salesman" and should you show up, remember "our pitbull only bites salesman"

[If_You_Please 81]

You know, I've been turned down by couples before with a very simple, honest "Sorry, you're not our type physically, thanks anyway", or some variant of that. If, as a single male, you find yourself insulted by that, it's probably time to evaluate why you're pursuing the lifestyle at all.

 

I always politely reply with something to the effect of, "No problem, thanks for your time."

 

I think giving a true, specific reason or two is just good manners. Any single males that are participating in the lifestyle should face and realize one important rule...

 

To Each Their Own...Diff'rent Strokes for Diff'rent Folks...De Gustibus non est Disputandem (In Matters of Taste there is No Dispute)...etc.

 

...if you can't discriminate from innocent, preferential rejection and a personal attack, it's probably time for you to get some therapy and time for the people you're corresponding with to block you.