Emotional & logistical problems of an open marriage

[CallMeLoki 32]

Hi Folks:

 

My wife and I are considering trying swinging. We are considering starting with a MFM threesome (there's essentially a current opportunity to do that), then an FMF threesome (when the opportunity presents itself). I guess our main question is: are there any red flags in starting this way? I don't know if we'd continue with anything else after that...a lot probably depends on how we feel about these two experiences. More details below if you have the stamina to read my long posts!

 

I"ll try to make this as short as I can. About 1.5 years ago, I visited a strip bar in Toronto...I hadn't been to a strip club in years and my wife encouraged me to go. I ended up getting a lap dance from two hot ladies. My wife wanted details, and it was a little hard for me to open up, but I did (I do my best to be completely honest). I figured she'd be a little upset about how intimate the lap dance was, but she was totally turned on by it. When I got home from the business trip, we had the hottest sex we've had in years.

 

So that got us to talking. This also of course led me to share with my wife that a sexual fantasy I've had for 2 decades was to have a threesome with two women. I offered to take her or send her with a bunch of girls to a male strip show, but she wasn't really into that idea. She likes to be in control...she would much rather give a lap dance than get one. I said "Cool...we could actually do that!" Then she asked me "How would you feel if I was grinding naked on another guy?" I thought about it for a bit and answered "I'd be totally turned on by it". And I would. From just talking about all this, if I recall we had some smokin' hot sex.

 

Since then, we've started fantasizing more and more openly with each other, now well into people we know (excepting very close long-term friends) and could possible engage in some play with. We've both written erotic stories for each other, and often flirt/tease other people just to arouse each other. End result: hot sex with each other.

 

We've visited some strip bars together and gotten couple's lap dances, we've partied with some acquaintances, flirted, teased, danced, fondled and groped a little, etc...essentially some very mild erotic play with others. End result: we have smoking hot sex with each other.

 

We've engaged in quite a bit of online flirting and a few cyber-sex encounters...I've encouraged my wife to take advantage of cyber-sex with a young "virtual boyfriend", and she's enjoyed it (and so have I). I've been quite entertained in strips bars and I really want to be fair to her, so I encouraged her and him to engage in whatever felt natural. End result: after she has a cyber-sex encounter with her virtual boy-toy, we have hot sex.

 

I probably don't have to say much more about where this appears to be headed, do I?

 

The cyber-BF has asked if he can come visit us...my wife has told me about his request, and we've talked about it quite a bit (for a month or two now). I've thought it all over carefully and I've said "Tell him to come on down." I've suggested to set the expectation that we'll hang out and have a few drinks and laughs...if anything erupts, we'll run with it. She likes him a lot as a person, and I know she'd essentially fuck his and my brains out. She's much more suspicious than I am, so if her barometer says he's safe and trustworthy, then I'm good with the safety element, even if it involves a little alone time for them. We're both in our early 40's and he's in his early 20's, so the "training a young stud" element has some appeal for her. And that's cool, if we're going to do this, I'd definitely want it to be as smokin' hot for her as it can be...her doing someone she's been burning for sexually is what I'd want for her. That turns us both on.

 

We've talked about fairness quite a bit, and I get to have a similar experience with her and another woman when the opportunity presents itself. I'm patient, so I'm in no huge hurry...like her, I would want it to be someone I really like and am turned on by (and someone who isn't shy about playing with both of us). We're both quite attractive people with engaging personalities, so I don't think finding a willing participant for me will be too difficult, although I realize it'll take a little time (I'm fine with that).

 

We've both talked a lot about how we think we would feel the next day and not just during. I'm quite positive that I'll be fine with it all the next day (and we'll probably have smokin' hot sex for quite a while afterwards).

 

Our sexual relationship has always been good...there have been a few dry spells here and there, but in general I think we have a really good sex life. I'm about the only guy I know personally who doesn't complain about the lack of sex or quality of sex. It's always been good, usually excellent, and sometimes just phenomenal. All these erotic shenanigans have done nothing but heat it all up. Our relationship otherwise has had it's ups and downs (we fairly recently worked through a very tough time, but managed to essentially wipe our slates clean and reset to zero...almost a fresh start, it feels like). I feel like our relationship has had some big swings in contentment at times over our 12 years of marriage, but overall I believe it's quite strong (we have ALWAYS managed to work through our problems somehow)...we both love each other and have a deep emotional connection. We have both always been faithful, we've never cheated on each other even when one of us might have wanted to. In fact, we've even gotten to the point of openness and honesty that we can admit to each other when we have crushes or infatuations with other people (and we end up using that in our fantasizing). We even encourage each other to flirt and playfully pursue our "crushes".

 

I've suggested that we go to a local swinger party and watch, flirt, maybe even make-out with another couple if we meet some folks we like, but not engage in anything actually qualifying as "sex"...then see how we feel the next day about it all. (I'd suspect "hot sex with each other", but you never know for sure until you just try it, I guess.) I'm not sure that would be all that "hot" for us though...we both like to really know and like the person's we have sex with. I've never been a pick-up artist nor has she ever been a pickup-ee. We both have to at least really like the respective person we want to do.

 

We've talked about setting boundaries for this first MFM...my wife feels that if we're going to do this, she wouldn't be satisfied without the whole enchilada (meaning everything including intercourse). After thinking that over, I see her point and I agree. I could be happy just doing oral with some of the ladies that I might end up with, but then I have to consider that some women may not want to give oral to me (although I love giving oral to a woman!), so I suppose I could feel a little left out if I gave her oral and essentially got nothing in return. Regardless, I do agree with my wife...if we're going to do this, why not just go at it and let each other have maximum enjoyment, right?

 

One thing I will say: even if we end up doing nothing, all the talking and openness and honesty sure seems like a great thing for our relationship. I feel good about us, and I guess in a way I want to reward us both for being good (ie. not having affairs, etc.) by us allowing ourselves to have some play time with others. We wouldn't want to do anything that would damage our relationship...but I just have this gut feel that after either encounter, we'd end up doing the usual...smokin' hot sex with each other.

 

I'm going to point her to this thread to see if she has anything she wants to add. (Her username is Sif, if you catch our little Norse mythology allusion. )

 

So, given all that I've written, are there any glaring red flags that pop up to you experienced folks? Please let us know what you think about starting with a MFM, following with an FMF, then re-assessing how we feel and where we go from there if anywhere.

 

Thanks in advance!

Loki

[bryanlee 147]

Well that's a mouthful, lol. (pun intended)

 

It looks as if you guys are already on a great start. Just keep the lines of communication open and see where it takes you.

 

I don't think there is any right or wrong way to start into this whole experience. The important thing is that you are both comfortable and on the same page as far as your feelings, wants and concerns go.

 

Other than that just sit back relax and enjoy yourselves. I wish you both luck in everything.

 

Bryan & Sharon

[Chicup 41]

Ok I have to admit, I did not read your wall of text past the first question.

 

Here are some issues with the MFM than FMF thing.

 

Getting an MFM is about as hard as getting a mosquito bite in a swamp for most couples.

 

In an FMF the extra F is called a unicorn for a reason.

 

So don't expect an FMF anytime soon after.

 

We started with a couple and I think that worked out the best for us. As newbies we were very turned on by the idea but still had the usual jealousies and nervousness. By each swinging with a new partner we were 'even' and as a somewhat possessive male I felt 'even' with the other man as well. I did have a bit of jealousy after our first time but I justified it to myself by knowing I had sex with his wife too. These days its not an issue, but sometimes you don't know you have demons to slay until you face them head on.

 

Another thing we have seen over the years on this board are people who first do an FMF or MFM and then their partner decides they don't want to do more, or are uncomfortable with the opposite. Its the whole fairness in swinging concept. Starting with a couple means we had our cake and ate it too, there was nothing to be resentful of.

 

So for some I'm sure your plan is fine, for us, couples were the way to go.

[CallMeLoki 32]

Hey Chicup...you made some good points. Yes, I realize that finding a 3rd woman for an FMF isn't exactly a quick and easy thing to do. My wife has actually said she'd like me to go first, and I would if there was a candidate who's ready-to-go on my front. (There might be one or two potential possibilities for me at the moment...a waitress we know and another acquaintance whom we know through some of our friends.)

 

I'm not worried that it'll never happen for me (I've had explicit affair offers before, and not too long ago I had to end a lap dance at a strip bar because it was about to go too far!), but you've made a good point. I don't think my wife would change her mind about an FMF for me, we've talked about her comfort level seeing me do another woman. But, something could change for us as a couple (some new challenge, like career or extended family) that could make it infeasible, so that's something that I hadn't thought about (which is exactly why I made this post). So, sounds like my wife and I should talk about this some.

 

Come to think of it, my wife has alluded to the fact that she wished her cyber-BF would bring a girl with him (and come to think of it, she has made a joke about hooking me up with the waitress in question the same visit weekend), so maybe she would feel more comfortable with a couple as well. Thanks...you've given us some more topics for emotionally intimate conversations about all this.

 

Loki

[realcplub2 513]

Ok I have to admit, I did not read your wall of text past the first question.

 

Here are some issues with the MFM than FMF thing.

 

Getting an MFM is about as hard as getting a mosquito bite in a swamp for most couples.

 

In an FMF the extra F is called a unicorn for a reason.

 

So don't expect an FMF anytime soon after.

 

We started with a couple and I think that worked out the best for us. As newbies we were very turned on by the idea but still had the usual jealousies and nervousness. By each swinging with a new partner we were 'even' and as a somewhat possessive male I felt 'even' with the other man as well. I did have a bit of jealousy after our first time but I justified it to myself by knowing I had sex with his wife too. These days its not an issue, but sometimes you don't know you have demons to slay until you face them head on.

 

Another thing we have seen over the years on this board are people who first do an FMF or MFM and then their partner decides they don't want to do more, or are uncomfortable with the opposite. Its the whole fairness in swinging concept. Starting with a couple means we had our cake and ate it too, there was nothing to be resentful of.

 

So for some I'm sure your plan is fine, for us, couples were the way to go.

 

 

I quoted Chicup because this is the best answer to this... And please allow me to expand upon it.

 

We started out much like you are want to, in that we did MFM threesomes with the idea that the next one, or down the road we would do "mine" the FMF .. 13 years later, the wait continues..lol

 

But seriously, starting with a MFM is fine, it will allow you both to expereince a evening of pleasure and have a brush with this lifestyle that you can use to decide if this might be for you both.

 

Two points must be made though:

First, in such an evening, for YOU Loki, must keep the "go with the flow" attitude, there might be times where all 3 are engaged in activity and others where someone, you or him is on the sidelines.. waiting to get tagged in..

 

Second point is to enjoy yourselves, with the idea firmly planted that you are doing this for fun and pleasure.. at the end of the night, he goes home and you both go home together.. So there is no need for the green eyed monster to rear its ugly head..

 

And the key point to this or any encounter you decide to have is, when its over TALK IT THRU.. this slays the demons before they can get a foothold..

 

The first time we experienced a evening with a couple, the ride home was such a talk.. What surprised me in the conversation was the things she was bothered by.. we talked it thru, and by the time we were home, she was at the PC writing the email , setting up the next visit.

 

Now then, While Loki did a great job explain the events thus far, I am curious as to what the Lady Sif is thinking/feeling about all this.

[CallMeLoki 32]

...While Loki did a great job explain the events thus far, I am curious as to what the Lady Sif is thinking/feeling about all this.

 

I'll let her speak for herself...she should be hitting this thread sometime soon.

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm fine with sitting on the sidelines for a bit during an MFM...I would enjoy watching as much as I would enjoy participating, I believe. In fact, I think I'm probably comfortable enough to give her and Mr. 3rd some alone time (he's young, a little insecure about having another older man there before he's comfortable with her). I put my wife's safety first, but she's totally comfortable with him as they chatted for quite a while online before anything became erotic.

 

And, I have to ask myself...if it were a girl for me and she really felt uncomfortable having another woman there until we were warmed up, would I want my wife to give us some alone time, even if it was just to get started? The answer would be "yes" if it were a "deal-breaker"...probably "no" if it wasn't a deal-breaker (the idea of having both my wife and another girl there is hotter to me than just doing another girl).

 

Loki

[good times 991]

Listen to chicup, his post is excellent advice.

 

I can only ad one other thing. When looking for playmates, resist the urge of trying to hook up with people through non-traditional means (non-swingers), it almost never works out good. What I mean by that is, friends, acquaintances, random people on the internet, are not the way to go. To find playmates, go where the swingers are, like swingers clubs or swinger dating sights on the internet. The reason for this is, people who are swingers already know the rules. Personally, I wouldn't touch a single from a sex chat sight with a ten foot pole. The odds of him becoming a problem later are just too high. The standard non-swinger single that is willing to hook up with a married woman for sex often thinks that she needs him because she isn't satisfied with her husband. And if he likes her, he may decide that it is his mission in life to take her away from that. Whereas, an experienced swinger knows that it is just about recreational sex, and will not be nearly as likely to become drama that you will need to extricate yourself from later.

[CallMeLoki 32]

Listen to chicup, his post is excellent advice.

 

I can only ad one other thing. When looking for playmates, resist the urge of trying to hook up with people through non-traditional means (non-swingers), it almost never works out good. What I mean by that is, friends, acquaintances, random people on the internet, are not the way to go. To find playmates, go where the swingers are, like swingers clubs or swinger dating sights on the internet. The reason for this is, people who are swingers already know the rules. Personally, I wouldn't touch a single from a sex chat sight with a ten foot pole. The odds of him becoming a problem later are just too high. The standard non-swinger single that is willing to hook up with a married woman for sex often thinks that she needs him because she isn't satisfied with her husband. And if he likes her, he may decide that it is his mission in life to take her away from that. Whereas, an experienced swinger knows that it is just about recreational sex, and will not be nearly as likely to become drama that you will need to extricate yourself from later.

 

Thanks for the post. I think I catch your drift here. My wife has made it clear to the young fellow in question that he's a chat friend, a cyber-sex partner, and in person would be a "sex toy with a heartbeat"...nothing more. She's also made it perfectly clear to him that she's happy with me, and intends to keep it that way. I totally trust her to manage their relationship in a way that is not detrimental to us. (Now, maybe I'm being naive here, but I don't think so. As I said before, neither my wife nor I have ever cheated on each other...we seem to know how to handle our own emotions, even in cases where we might be infatuated with another person.)

 

To me, it seems like it would be much more enjoyable to her (and to me) for her to have sex with someone that she truly likes and has pent-up desire for rather than someone she just met at a swinger party, etc. I know the same would be true for me...I'd much more enjoy doing someone I had known for a while and liked as a person rather than someone I had just met, given equally attractive. Again, maybe I'm being naive (someone candidly tell me so if you think that's the case), but I believe we would both be able to manage any emotions in the right way. Somebody smack me if this is a red flag, please!

 

I'm not at all concerned that my wife would even feel tempted to ditch me for this 22 year old recent college grad, even if he tried to work that angle. My wife and I worked through some serious issues a few months ago (not at all related to any of this), and considered seperating. It was a very painful time for both of us...I could see the pain she was enduring, and it made me turn my own perspective around. In a nutshell, we both agreed to reset to zero, focus on giving each other what we need from each other, and making our marriage work. To me, that says that we have a stronger marriage than either of us tend to think we do. (And just for the record, swinging or any other kinky stuff was definitely not a consideration....it was the farthest thing from either of our minds at the time.) We are doing extremely well in my opinion. I think that all the open honesty that even considering something like swinging requires has really helped us connect with each other unlike we ever have before (and that's true whether we ever do swing or not). Anyway, my point here is that if there were any alterior motives on my wife's part, she would have said "yes, let's seperate, at least for a while". She definitely did not....quite the opposite..."I really don't want to lose you or lose us" was the gist of it, and we've both kicked ourselves into the right mindset since. Now, they do talk a lot over chat and occasionally phone, but I don't see that as anything to be alarmed over. I do feel comfortable that her relationship with her cyber-bud is "safe" for us, and I trust her to manage it. I don't normally go and read her chat logs (I did once when something she quoted from him concerned me), but I know she'll openly let me read them (and she does chat with him at work as well, but I'm sure she'd let me read those logs too if I asked)...I ask first out of respect for her. She usually sends me a copy of any particularly hot cyber-sex encounters with him.

 

I guess my thought is the old "set it free and if it comes back to you it's yours" mindset. I don't want someone to be with me because I've chained and shackled her to me...I want her to be with me because she wants to. If she ever stops wanting to be with me, then she's free to go. (Now, not that losing her wouldn't hurt...it certainly would. But, if she didn't WANT to be with me, I'm not going to force her to...that's not the kind of marriage I'd want to have.) If you chain someone to you, then you never know for sure if they want to be with you or they're only there because of the shackles, ya know? It's very reassuring to set someone free and watch them stick around because they want to.

 

So, I think we can definitely say my wife has a "crush" or infatuation with this young guy. And I'm OK with that, I don't feel like it threatens our marriage. Crushes and infatuations have a tendency to expire over time. I've certainly had a few infatuations with other people...we both have, we've just never acted on them. (I actually think everyone gets infatuated with other people from time to time, whether they are willing to admit it or not. We've reached a level of emotional maturity and trust in each other that we can freely admit these things. I think that's a good thing, isn't it?) I'm quite infatuated with a waitress at a local restaurant right now...we flirt quite a bit, and we just discovered that she tried her hand as an exotic dancer for 3 months not too long ago (which makes me like her even more). My wife knows I've got the hots for this girl, so she requests her section every time we go there. Who knows, she might be a good candidate for an FMF experience for me. We'll see, I guess.

 

My wife and I are even advising each other on how to best pursue and interact with these other people...we're treating each other like "best friends" as well as spouses and lovers. I believe that is a quite unusally cool thing for two spouses to do, IMO.

 

Now, I should note that I've encouraged her to enjoy some cyber-sex adventures with this fellow. I've certainly had some erotic fun at strip bars, and since my wife isn't interested in male strippers, some cyber-sex adventures certainly seemed like a good choice for her. I want our relationship to be fair to both of us, and this seems to me to be a pretty harmless way for her to have some erotic fun too. At first they merely chatted about intellectual stuff and flirted a bit, but it progressed from there. I do realize that folks sometimes develop emotional attachments from cyber-sex...I've asked my wife if she feels like this has progressed to an "emotional affair" and she says no, and I believe her. Even if he wasn't 3-4 hours away, I would still trust her to be up-front about what goes on. She's got a crush on the dude, and I'm perfectly OK with that...I want her to actually just enjoy it with my blessing, it's OK. I know she's really enjoying the pursuit and conquest aspects of it, and I hope the trust I'm showing her sets a precedent for us in terms of trust (which I believe it already has). For instance, the waitress I mentioned above is local...I want my wife to trust me to not do anything behind her back. (And actually, there's no reason for me to do anything deceitful...my wife has given me her blessing to get this waitress in the sack with us if we get an opportunity.) Distrust breeds distrust, and trust breeds trust...ya know?

 

Anyway, do you folks think we are really going about this wrong, and should stick to a more conventional approach of finding potential partners through swinger parties, swinger web-sites, etc.? Post your candid thoughts please! The last thing I'd want to do is damage our own relationship.

 

Loki

[cvcple 16]

We both agree with GOODTIMES. your best bet is through actual swinger sites and clubs/parties. The reason we say this is through experience. We had a mfm participant, that we knew before the sex, decide that he needed more than just an occasional party. It was difficult trying to explain it was just sex and to move on. Real swingers know it is just sex and you will usuall have a pretty good selection of playmates.

[good times 991]

Thanks for the post. I think I catch your drift here. My wife has made it clear to the young fellow in question that he's a chat friend, a cyber-sex partner, and in person would be a "sex toy with a heartbeat"...nothing more. She's also made it perfectly clear to him that she's happy with me, and intends to keep it that way. I totally trust her to manage their relationship in a way that is not detrimental to us. (Now, maybe I'm being naive here, but I don't think so. As I said before, neither my wife nor I have ever cheated on each other...we seem to know how to handle our own emotions, even in cases where we might be infatuated with another person.)

Unfortunately, based on experience, I can tell you that it really doesn't matter what you tell him. He will agree to anything while his raging hormones are in control. The important thing is, does he understand swinging, and truly accept and respect all that it entails. We see a lot of single guys at the clubs we attend, and my guess is that less than 10% of them understand what swinging really is about.

 

As far as you or your wife's motivations are concerned, I have seen nothing here that would worry me so far.

 

To me, it seems like it would be much more enjoyable to her (and to me) for her to have sex with someone that she truly likes and has pent-up desire for rather than someone she just met at a swinger party, etc. I know the same would be true for me...I'd much more enjoy doing someone I had known for a while and liked as a person rather than someone I had just met, given equally attractive. Again, maybe I'm being naive (someone candidly tell me so if you think that's the case), but I believe we would both be able to manage any emotions in the right way. Somebody smack me if this is a red flag, please!

SMACK!!!

 

Well, not really a red flag, in fact it is a pretty common feeling for new swingers to have. What you don't realize yet is that it is just as easy (way easier than we thought when we were in your position) to find someone you like that gets you just as hot and turned on within the swinging community as it is outside of it. Actually it is much easier within the swinging community than outside of it, mainly because their is much less risk of the drama I have warned of within the swinging community. So, it is much easier to let yourself go and get to know someone without any worries they will take it the wrong way and create drama later.

 

I'm not at all concerned that my wife would even feel tempted to ditch me for this 22 year old recent college grad, even if he tried to work that angle. My wife and I worked through some serious issues a few months ago (not at all related to any of this), and considered seperating. It was a very painful time for both of us...I could see the pain she was enduring, and it made me turn my own perspective around. In a nutshell, we both agreed to reset to zero, focus on giving each other what we need from each other, and making our marriage work. To me, that says that we have a stronger marriage than either of us tend to think we do. (And just for the record, swinging or any other kinky stuff was definitely not a consideration....it was the farthest thing from either of our minds at the time.) We are doing extremely well in my opinion. I think that all the open honesty that even considering something like swinging requires has really helped us connect with each other unlike we ever have before (and that's true whether we ever do swing or not). Anyway, my point here is that if there were any alterior motives on my wife's part, she would have said "yes, let's seperate, at least for a while". She definitely did not....quite the opposite..."I really don't want to lose you or lose us" was the gist of it, and we've both kicked ourselves into the right mindset since. Now, they do talk a lot over chat and occasionally phone, but I don't see that as anything to be alarmed over. I do feel comfortable that her relationship with her cyber-bud is "safe" for us, and I trust her to manage it. I don't normally go and read her chat logs (I did once when something she quoted from him concerned me), but I know she'll openly let me read them (and she does chat with him at work as well, but I'm sure she'd let me read those logs too if I asked)...I ask first out of respect for her. She usually sends me a copy of any particularly hot cyber-sex encounters with him.

As I indicated before, you, as a couple aren't the issue here. The problem is, if this guy creates drama, or starts stalking your wife, or brags about his exploits with your wife around town, all things that swingers do not do, but non-swingers do to often, extricating yourself from it can turn what could have been a great experience into a nightmare.

 

Anyway, do you folks think we are really going about this wrong, and should stick to a more conventional approach of finding potential partners through swinger parties, swinger web-sites, etc.? Post your candid thoughts please! The last thing I'd want to do is damage our own relationship.

 

I have to answer yes to this question.

 

We ourselves made the similar mistake of trying to gain our first experience in swinging with non-swinger friends we already knew. It was a total disaster.

 

We have also known many folks who tried what you have envisioned doing here, and while we have occasionally met someone who had it work out, the vast majority of them, more than 90%, wish they hadn't taken this approach and severally regret it. That does not include the group that we know exist but personally know very few of, that the experience was so bad it caused them to give up the idea of swinging all together.

[iapr 24]

Unfortunately, based on experience, I can tell you that it really doesn't matter what you tell him. He will agree to anything while his raging hormones are in control. The important thing is, does he understand swinging, and truly accept and respect all that it entails. We see a lot of single guys at the clubs we attend, and my guess is that less than 10% of them understand what swinging really is about.

 

As far as you or your wife's motivations are concerned, I have seen nothing here that would worry me so far.

 

 

SMACK!!!

 

Well, not really a red flag, in fact it is a pretty common feeling for new swingers to have. What you don't realize yet is that it is just as easy (way easier than we thought when we were in your position) to find someone you like that gets you just as hot and turned on within the swinging community as it is outside of it. Actually it is much easier within the swinging community than outside of it, mainly because their is much less risk of the drama I have warned of within the swinging community. So, it is much easier to let yourself go and get to know someone without any worries they will take it the wrong way and create drama later.

 

 

As I indicated before, you, as a couple aren't the issue here. The problem is, if this guy creates drama, or starts stalking your wife, or brags about his exploits with your wife around town, all things that swingers do not do, but non-swingers do to often, extricating yourself from it can turn what could have been a great experience into a nightmare.

 

 

 

I have to answer yes to this question.

 

We ourselves made the similar mistake of trying to gain our first experience in swinging with non-swinger friends we already knew. It was a total disaster.

 

We have also known many folks who tried what you have envisioned doing here, and while we have occasionally met someone who had it work out, the vast majority of them, more than 90%, wish they hadn't taken this approach and severally regret it. That does not include the group that we know exist but personally know very few of, that the experience was so bad it caused them to give up the idea of swinging all together.

 

Amen to this Brother!!

 

This needs to be cut and pasted to every thread where a newbie wants to start swinging with established friends, vanilla acquaintances and coworkers etc etc.

 

Even if a vanilla is horny or promiscuous or open minded vanillas are vanillas for a reason and if people want to swing they should go with swingers for the reason Good Times stated above.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Anyway, do you folks think we are really going about this wrong, and should stick to a more conventional approach of finding potential partners through swinger parties, swinger web-sites, etc.? Post your candid thoughts please! The last thing I'd want to do is damage our own relationship.

 

No one can say you are wrong. That fate can only be in your hands if things don't work out. I feel GT is only saying you are taking higher risks, going about this, the way you are. Not that it couldn't work or even hasn't worked, for a few. But there is an easier way, and thats pertaining to people in the swinging community.

 

We would have to agree with our experience. We play with single males and single females. So far, with great outcomes. The single males we have played with have been very experienced within the lifestyle. No drama, no issues to work on. Just good sex. Yes, they even have had partners previously in the lifestyle. To us that gives certainty that everyone understands. We just like to keep things in a less risky area. We are just pointing out some potential risks. You seem to have a great relationship, how do you both feel about taking this in a less risky way ?

 

Do you think that you couldn't meet people in the lifestyle that would excite you, like the male and female you have your sights on now ?

 

I'm just saying, there are some really sexy people in the lifestyle . Don't over look that

[arvcpl 16]

I also agree strongly with Good Times and think that you should keep your friends and chatroom buddies out of your bedroom. I think the best idea that you have presented is to go to a swingers club or party and meet real swingers in the flesh.

 

Here are some other thoughts, a 20-something cyber chat buddy that is willing to travel to meet a 40 something married woman is downright fishy. Shouldn't a 20something guy be chasing 20 something single girls? At best he may be some nerdy, isolated, shy boy that has developed some kind of cyber crush on your wife and he is having fantasys of her leaving you for him and then they are going to ride off into the sunset together. What you are wanting is an MFM experience with an body to fullfill a fantasy that will add excitement into your own sexlife as a couple. In other words you are just using the other male as a warmblooded dildo that talks and has hands and a tongue. The other male is just an adjunct to your sexual experience like a vibrator or a bottle of massage oil. To this young guy it is a whole different reality and he is probably fantasizing about he and her having this wonderfull relationship without you. An experienced and legitimate single male in the lifestyle knows he is just a dildo that talks and likes it that way and is consenting to that.

 

Go to a swing club and meet real swingers. Real swingers understand and consent to the fact that couples are bringing others into their bedroom as an enhancement to their own sexual experience. Vanillas and chatroom denizens don't get that.

[twohots4u2 188]

Every swinger has to start somewhere. This sounds like a feasible way to start. We feel that it is far better to hook up with a relative stranger than to try to convert a vanilla friend or someone you have known in business, etc. We love to play, but we like to keep it separate from our "real" life. Since he is 40 miles away that is probably enough separation. Before you actually meet him, we recommend that you lay it out for him. He is being invited to join a couple and work with the husband give the wife all the pleasure she desires. And, no matter how well it goes, it will probably be a one-time thing, as neither of you want it to interfere with your relationship.

[CallMeLoki 32]

Hey folks:

 

Thanks for all the advice! I have to admit, you folks are making me question our tentative plan (and questioning is definitely a good thing).

 

The thing that makes this young dude appealing is that he's young, somewhat inexperienced, he's hot for my wife, my wife is hot for him, he's 300 miles or so away (although it is conceivable that he *could* end up working closer to us), their chatting started as a friendship (she met him on a sex forum, but it was more a discussion forum rather than a "hook-up" forum). She's made it perfectly clear to him that he'd be a dildo with heartbeat, and that this experience is for "us" (me and my wife) moreso than for him, although he certainly gets to enjoy it too. He IS pursuing a young lady his own age, and in fact he's said that if they end up dating he wouldn't want to do this playtime.

 

Now, I have to admit, the one thing that does make me wonder given all your advice is that he's asked for some alone time with my wife. He says he'd be quite self-conscious in front of an older, more experience man...but I'm sure he is fantasizing about my wife (which is fine with me). The details of what he's fantasizing about, I don't know. However, I'm actually happy to give them some alone time, as long as my wife feels safe about it.

 

So now, you folks have me wondering: what's the worst possible thing that could happen if we do this? I think my wife would really like to have another girl involved at the same time, so that it's all "fair" without any delay.

 

Question: is the fact that he and my wife have an existing friendship (that involves some cybersex) a red flag?

 

And, yes, we live in a fairly metropolitan area, and there seem to be plenty of swingers and sex freaks here. My wife and I are both attractive people (we're not magazine models or anything, but we both seem to attract attention in a social setting), so I'm sure if we went to a swinger party we'd have several interested couples to choose from.

 

Hmmm...you folks keep the advice coming! My wife should be along shortly to post her views, I think...

 

"Him"

[LokisFemaleHalf 15]

OK, here is Loki's other half with her story!

 

I will try to consolidate so as not to make this too painful to read, because I am very interested in opinions from people who know!

 

I am 43, met now 22 year old on a sexual forum. I am flirtatious, he was not having it; we ended up talking politics thru email. We found common interests, one thing led to another, we started engaging in cyber-sex.

 

This person is highly intelligent, super-shy, and inexperienced. He has had sex a whopping total of 8 times with one girl in his young life. He wants to bang a friend he can trust and who can show him how to do it. I am the teacher, he is the student. The deal is, that my husband is totally turned on by the fantasy of watching me get off with another man, and I feel the same way about him with another woman. No problems there. We both have the need for not so much an emotional connection with the prospective partners as a "I like you, I know you a little, let's get it on" type scenario.

 

Bottom line: I talk to this young man on almost a daily basis. In chat, and on the phone, he nails me, and I am 43. This is his imagination working. In reality, he is nervous as hell about his skills, therefore he wants to be one on one with me to be comfortable, then pictures he and my husband giving me a good going over. I am all for it, mainly because it is exciting, new, and my husband talks about me doing this person all the time. I realize this is outside the lifestyle, but we are not even there yet. I want to do this. So, hit us with your best advice. I don't see a young man who is 200+ miles away as being a threat. I will say, that the fact that he "wishes more women his age think like me" is a red flag.

 

I am so glad this forum is here to guide us!

 

Love,

The other half!

[good times 991]

Welcome to the board LokisFemaleHalf,

 

Thanks for coming and giving us your perspective. Unfortunately, what you said only reinforces my opinion, we wouldn't touch this guy with a ten foot pole.

 

The fact is, he is not a swinger, so their is no way to know his motives or what he will ultimately do until it is too late. Sadly, the internet is full of stories of people hooking up with someone who seemed perfect over months of correspondence, then turned out to be a psycho in person.

 

As others have said around here before, if you want the best chance of meeting someone who will give you a good first swinging experience, "go were the swingers are". People already involved in swinging are doing it for the same reasons as you are. So you know what their motives are, and you know what you are getting ahead of time.

[CallMeLoki 32]

Hi folks:

 

Just thought I'd update our post. We haven't done anything yet, we are still talking about it. We've both thought over all the things said here, and we've given it careful consideration. One thing that folks say consistently on here is "do what is comfortable for you both as a couple". It just seems that the idea of having more of an "open relationship" fits us both better than "swinging" in the more conventional sense. Or we think so. I'd still like to go to a local swinger party soon and just watch and/or maybe fool around a bit (as in maybe some erotic play or petting for both of us, just to make sure we both really ARE comfortable with this sort of thing), but not actually swing while we're there. My wife has agreed this would probably be a good idea to just sort of "test the waters".

 

Even after considering all the things said, I still feel quite comfortable giving them one-on-one time without me there. For my experience, I'd much rather have my wife plus another lady for me to entertain/be entertained by, but a similar "fling" with the right person would be a good experience too (just not the one that really satisfies a fantasy for me...unless maybe I could let my wife listen over the phone or something. ). We've had to consider that having an FMF experience for me might be a difficult proposition (especially when limiting the candidates to only swingers from parties and swinger sites), so I think what we're arriving at is that we're both flexible...I'll push back some of my boundaries to let her have an unforgettable experience (like allowing one-on-one time, if that's what it takes to make the experience happen for her) and she'll push back some of her boundaries to let me have an unforgettable experience (like allowing a close long-time female friend, if that's what it actually takes to make the experience happen for me).

 

This doesn't mean that we are discounting anyone's suggestions or experiences here, in fact, all the replies really made us think about it all quite hard and have lots of discussions. In the end though, we still know each other best, and we trust each other's intentions. In reality, the only person I truly have to trust is my wife, and vice versa.

 

I really don't feel like either one of us truly has an interest in just meeting another couple at a swinger party and having sex with them, for instance. For both of us, it takes a connection...we have to really like something about the persons. We have both been very selective about who we've had sex with over the years before we met each other (I've had 7 partners, and she's had 4, I believe), so we might have to go to swinger parties for quite a long time before we met a couple that we both truly liked and they both truly liked us enough to move forward from that. Of course, I dunno...that's why we probably should just go try a swinger party at least once, even if we don't do anything but flirt and watch.

 

Anyway, thanks for all your thoughts. I'll update this thread as we go and/or if anything in our thoughts changes.

 

Thanks,

Loki

[arvcpl 16]

I think you two are sounding nuttier the longer this thread continues. The only half way sensible thing you have said throughout this whole discussion is that you may check out a LS club to watch and "test the waters." That is a rational and reastic thing to do.

 

Having some desparate 22 year old you never met drive 200 miles to get sex lessons with your wife alone is just downright dumb if not even dangerous. Haven't you ever seen "To Catch a Preditor" on TV? I guess 13 year old girls aren't the only ones that need to be warned about internet preditors.

 

You are even contridicting yourself. You say that can't see yourself going to a club together as couple because you wouldn't know someone well enough and have a connection with someone but yet you are going to have your wife meet a complete stranger by herself? Am I the only seeing the disconnect here or is there something I'm missing?

 

You have been given a lot of good advice here by people that are real swingers and have been out in the real world. They are telling you to reconsider this and you keep digging yourself deeper into this wacky situation.

 

I wish you well and I hope your wife doesn't get stashed into some crawlspace somewhere.

[CallMeLoki 32]

I wish you well and I hope your wife doesn't get stashed into some crawlspace somewhere.

 

Wow...what a post. Ya know, if I thought there was ANY possibility of anything REMOTELY resembling harm coming to my wife, I would certainly say "No!" to the whole thing. My wife is a naturally suspicious woman, much moreso than me...she's even had difficulties trusting me at times (and with no concrete reasons). She doesn't have any concerns at all that she would be in harm's way...and I trust her judgement.

 

Regardless, thanks for the candid post.

 

Loki

[arvcpl 16]

Wow...what a post. Ya know, if I thought there was ANY possibility of anything REMOTELY resembling harm coming to my wife, I would certainly say "No!" to the whole thing. My wife is a naturally suspicious woman, much moreso than me...she's even had difficulties trusting me at times (and with no concrete reasons). She doesn't have any concerns at all that she would be in harm's way...and I trust her judgement.

 

Regardless, thanks for the candid post.

 

Loki

 

Yeah and Ted Bundy used to walk Ann Rule (author of The Stranger Beside Me and personal friend of Ted's) to her car after work at night because "there are weirdos out there."

 

Ok we all take some risk when we meet someone online but my main point is if you are interested in the lifestyle there are several tried and true means of meeting like-minded people and the people on this board have been recommending those standard methods but you are stuck on some psycho 22 year old who's only form of sexual expression is cyber sex talk with a 43 year old woman 200 miles away.

 

Look, what you two do in the privacy of your bedroom is your business and if your wife wants to play school-marm with some socially awkward and sexually repressed nerd-boy that is between the three of you and whatever kind of twisted arraingments you come up with. But you came onto a swingers message board and are asking experienced swingers for advice and they are giving you their advice based on their experience and knowledge and you are choosing to ignore it. It's your choice.

[Geoduck 26]

This person is highly intelligent, super-shy, and inexperienced. He has had sex a whopping total of 8 times with one girl in his young life.

 

I'd ask this big question: Why has a male 22-year-old college grad only had sex eight times, and then with only one woman? I'd be seeing red flags. I could come up with dozens of scenarios that might explain it--he had an ultra-conservative background, perhaps, or maybe he went to MIT, a school famous for graduating a high percentage of virgins, and on and on.

 

You said he's shy, but apparently he wasn't too shy to have at least one semi-girlfriend. Why did they only have sex eight times? Questions, questions...

 

Good luck,

Geo

[CallMeLoki 32]

Ya know, I have to tell you that the guy in question reminds me quite a bit of me when I was his age. I was a bit shy and inexperienced, and if I'd had an opportunity to learn a few things with an older, more experience woman, I'd have taken it. (Actually, I did have a chance once and didn't take it...now, I can say I wish that I had.) He reminds me of me at his age...and I'm not someone who fucks women, murders them, and stashes their bodies in crawlspaces. I grew up around mostly women...I adore women.

 

It strikes me as so odd that folks would be so judgemental of something "unconventional". Isn't the "lifestyle" unconventional also by typical social standards? Have you ever been called "nutty" for what you do? How does that feel to you? Not being defensive here...just trying to make a point.

 

Loki

[suite91 15]

[fun4Ds 1,098]

A special welcome to Mrs.Loki

 

 

We are still glad you came to the board with your situation. We all have fantasies and desires in this lifestyle. If this is what you are set on then there is only one thing to do now. Its about Mrs.Loki's safety first. We are talking at least close range for her time with him. Then phone calls and check in times.

 

Can that all be arranged ?

[LokisFemaleHalf 15]

OK, Loki's female half here again. First and foremost, I am not talking to a serial killer. I did a thesis in college on those sorts, and my friend is not one. I am an intelligent person. I actually know how to check a person's credentials and see if they are really who they say they are, which I have done. In this case, in addition to sex talk and cyber sex, we talk about his family, his friends, girlfriends, politics, economy, all kinds of things. We are friends. Why is it odd that a young man wants an older woman? Have you ever heard of MILFs? That is what I am. I have experience, I know what I want, and I know how to fuck. Now, that being said, and not to knock the lifestyle because I am not in it, what makes a swinger so much more safe? Anyone can lie, just as anyone can be a psycho. I could walk out of my house today, get into my car, and find a sociopath in my back seat with a knife.

 

My point is, we appreciate your advice on the whole, but please do not judge people you do not know so harshly. I was kidnapped and raped by two men at gunpoint when I was 17 years old. If anybody has a "radar" for these things, it is me. I am working as a consultant for a start-up company, and I have had to meet men alone, in an office suite, and work on quotes for the upfit and for services. I could have been knocked off at anytime, or assaulted. The risk, to me, is the same.

 

So, I want to go to a very upscale hotel and spend a couple of days having a great time with a fuck-buddy. Is it risky? Well, isn't life? I find greater risk in the drive there. My husband and I have talked and worked this out. It is a fit for our sexual desires. Just because we are choosing not to start with the lifestyle does not mean we are doing anything wrong. Any single can get into a car with a first date and end up on the side of the road. Now, if this all goes haywire, you will get your satisfaction. I do not wish to offend anyone, but just because someone doesn't take your advice is not a sound reason to get snide. I truly appreciate the opinions, and respect your experiences. I will be more than glad to share mine when I am done!

[LokisFemaleHalf 15]

Yeah and Ted Bundy used to walk Ann Rule (author of The Stranger Beside Me and personal friend of Ted's) to her car after work at night because "there are weirdos out there."

 

Ok we all take some risk when we meet someone online but my main point is if you are interested in the lifestyle there are several tried and true means of meeting like-minded people and the people on this board have been recommending those standard methods but you are stuck on some psycho 22 year old who's only form of sexual expression is cyber sex talk with a 43 year old woman 200 miles away.

 

Look, what you two do in the privacy of your bedroom is your business and if your wife wants to play school-marm with some socially awkward and sexually repressed nerd-boy that is between the three of you and whatever kind of twisted arraingments you come up with. But you came onto a swingers message board and are asking experienced swingers for advice and they are giving you their advice based on their experience and knowledge and you are choosing to ignore it. It's your choice.

 

You are out of line. Speak to what you know about, and you do not know me, my husband, or my friends. Sounds like you are more than a little paranoid. Any reason why? If there is, please share an EXPERIENCE with psychopaths that you have had. We came here for advice, not beligerence if we choose not to play just the way you want us to. I thought my five year old had the market on that!

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Damn Mrs.loki, I like you .

 

Seriously though, we all have to admit safety is at hand always. I think you know that. As for us, we can tell of the things a psychopath might do. Like you, we understand

 

Not that we ever could now, but in a twisted sort of way, we envy those that can play solo or alone.

 

As far as my real questions now. How will you deal with any emotional envolvement this new young man ( who should be known as lucky from now on)... might develop. Just courious:rolleyes:

[fun4Ds 1,098]

So, I want to go to a very upscale hotel and spend a couple of days having a great time with a fuck-buddy. Is it risky? Well, isn't life? I find greater risk in the drive there. My husband and I have talked and worked this out. It is a fit for our sexual desires. Just because we are choosing not to start with the lifestyle does not mean we are doing anything wrong.

Ya know reading over your threads again I see more clearly where you guys are coming from. Maybe not the conventional swinging lifestyle is your goal but none the less an alternative lifestyle is at hand. I really hope this goes well, it sure looks like on your part you have your minds in the right setting. Your looking at having some experiences in life. Something to look forward to, then look back on as well. Like Mrs.fun always tells me, sometimes things change. Its those things we adjust to.

 

Looking at this I can offer advice perhaps that I haven't seen mentioned.

 

Sometimes people don't show up ! Honestly, single males on the INTERNET take the lead. So with that, have you made arrangements. I know we found out early. Rather than spend time worrying about all the things that might have happened or why this didn't happen the way we planned, its still about us.

 

I mean sometimes in the beginning. Making arrangements over the INTERNET. It was like, we were all pumped up and then a big olé let down. We actually had a few setbacks with our own sex lives over it . Were not perfect swingers. Hopefully this fantasy comes to life but its only our experience that keeps us prepared. We move on, chances may come again. We have had a few of those lavish hotel meetings not work out..... That room is for us now we don't worry about them. Just food for thought

[LokisFemaleHalf 15]

He and I have talked about this at length. He is super-intelligent (I have a brain fetish), a recent college grad, and very closed when it comes to getting to know him. As I stated before, we starting talking about subjects we both are interested in, and he decided that I was not just a shameless flirt, that I actually have value as a person. The only feelings we have, other than friendship, are those of hot mutual attraction and lust. He does not love me, not I him, at least not in the MF relationship way. He is aware that I am married, in love with my husband, and that there will be nothing more between us. He is a gentleman, and in college was not into sex for the sake of sex, but was discerning in that there had to be more to a person for him to "give it up". Sounds weird with what we are planning to do, I know, but we both know that it is only sex, neither of us have had casual sex, and we want to do this. He wants to gain experience so he can have confidence, and I am willing to give him that. I never thought I would ever do something like this, but with a little encouragement from the hubby, it is now a go. If I were even remotely worried that he would go gaga for me I would not do it. Right now we just want to bang each other furiously, which is exactly why we can keep it out of the non-emotional arena. It's just fun, an experience of a lifetime, and I am thankful for the gift my husband is giving me. No offense to the lifestyle, but I am the type that has to feel comfortable with a person before offering myself sexually. This means talking, sharing, trusting, and having fun. We have done that for five months. If I am wrong, then I deal with the consequences. I like you too, by the way. Sorry, but I speak my mind!

[LokisFemaleHalf 15]

The room is booked and the condoms are purchased. If he is a no-show I have my toys, a room for myself for three days, and the internet to keep me company, plus good books, a stocked mini-bar, etc.

[LokisFemaleHalf 15]

The room is booked, the condoms arrived in the mail yesterday, and we have 20 days and counting. If he doesn't show, I get a three-day vacation in a great hotel with my toys, some good books, and a stocked mini-bar. He'll show, though.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Way too cool Isn't it amazing. Here you guys came here as new to all this and Its Mrs.fun and I who are learning some things from you both. I've always thought that was one of the marvels about the Swingers Board.

 

I hope you keep in touch with everyone with how you feel about things working out. If things go as planned, I can only imagine the insight you might add to this.

I mean, I cant say that hot wife, milf , older woman, younger man scenarios, are something I see allot of on the board.

 

I hate to be the one asking all the questions now. But do you have any plans of continuing this to a possible MFM situation ? I know you both have talked about MFM FMF possibilities.... Now thats something we know about

[socolais 696]

I've been following this thread quietly because I don't have experience to add. It sounds to me like yall have made informed decisions and accepted the risks. All that remains is the adventure and I wish yall all the luck in the world.

[CallMeLoki 32]

fun4Ds said:

I hate to be the one asking all the questions now. But do you have any plans of continuing this to a possible MFM situation ? I know you both have talked about MFM FMF possibilities.... Now thats something we know about

 

Yes, we both feel like we have thought this through carefully. And yes, I hope he may gain enough comfort level to want to come here and do an MFM with us, if my wife decides that's something she'd like to do. I'm definitely game. I don't think either one of us expect this to be a regular thing, but I'm fine with it if it's something she wants to do more than once. I'm quite comfortable to just go with the flow and see where it takes us.

 

And yes, my wife's gift back to me is either an FMF threesome, or just a similar little fling with the person of my choice (although I'd certainly prefer the FMF...that's an experience I've never had and would love to!) Go see the thread on "seducing a vanilla single female" that I posted not too long ago. It's a bit...um...controversial too , but maybe you guys will have some thoughts on that as well since you've done an FMF or three.

 

Here's a linky-link: https://www.swingersboard.com/forums/topic/31900-seducing-a-vanilla-single-female-as-a-couple/

 

Cheers,

Loki

[doctoroctagon 15]

Ahhhhh...!!

 

What happened? Did it go well?

[CallMeLoki 32]

Ahhhhh...!!

 

What happened? Did it go well?

 

Hey...nothing has transpired yet. My wife has the....consummation ...of our agreement planned for two weekends from now, which is essentially a weekend fling alone with her young cyber-BF. I'm hoping that it will lead to him being comfortable enough to have an MFM with both of us. But if it doesn't, I still want her to really enjoy her experience.

 

I'm putting some effort into meeting some candidate ladies, and my wife has delivered quite a few assists for me so far (in terms of making comments to let the lady know that she can flirt all she wants with me, come have drinks with me or both of us, etc.) There's one casual friend who's an old co-worker (divorced with kids, not looking for a relationship but obviously quite horny from some of her comments), but I'd almost rather fix her up with a really shy buddy of mine (am I being too unselfish here? ). She's an attractive woman, but I'm not sure how turned on by her I am. I didn't used to be, but she has really improved her appearance since she got divorced, so I dunno...we'll see, I guess. She's made it pretty clear that she thinks I'm quite attractive, and we've flirted back and forth over IM a few times since I bumped into her at a concert recently. Again, though she'd probably need to get comfortable with me first before we introduced my wife into the mix (or maybe not!).

 

I think I've realized that a good choice for me would probably be divorcee's with kids! They are busy with their kids and many are not really looking for a serious relationship...just looking for a "friend with benefits". I figure at least some of those might consider an FMF experience if it were planted in their minds gently. I might have to do a similar little "fling" with one of them to get her comfy with me, but my wife is fine with that.

 

One really close and really attractive female friend of ours made a joke recently about having a threesome with me and my wife. I actually think she's a bit curious about it all...we know two other couples who are either swingers or have open marriages (and she doesn't know what we're up to, but somehow I get the feeling she is just a little suspicious). So, I kinda think her joke may have been just a tad serious. How tempting that thought is ...BUT...we have such a good friendship I don't think it would be worth risking damage to that over a little carnal gratification. Ya know? Plus she's married and her hubby is a close friend too...I simply couldn't see myself betraying his trust. (I don't think he'd betray mine...I know he'd love to bonk my wife, I'm sure he'd depend on my wife to tell me that it happened, but if I point-blank asked him, I don't think he'd lie to me. My wife isn't at all interested in him, so I really don't think he'll ever get that chance. )

 

In terms of my wife and I, I sure do feel like all this is really pushing our boundaries in terms of trust for each other. I see that as a good thing...there's nothing more reassuring to give your partner total freedom (even to have sex with someone else) and watch them NOT run off with the object of their infatuation.

 

Anyway, that's where we stand right now.

 

Cheers,

Loki

[Mr.Essex 264]

As a bookish and shy man who owes almost all of his early sexual education to the efforts of older women, I doff my hat to the two of you. I was led into this lifestyle by an older woman, and re-introduced to the lifestyle (when I was at my lowest point) by another older woman, so I'm finding it difficult to see any cons to your decision. One piece of advice, though: Use the opinions of the other members of the website as a sounding board.

 

April 2007, I made the acquaintance of my second seducer on a mesage board. We met, we enjoyed a weekend together, then we made plans for our next rendesvous. But, when I asked her about her reasons for inviting me to her home, she admitted that she performed a full site search of all of my posts. IOW, she re-read all of our correspondences, then backed up her opinion with research of what I posted when I wasn't trying to make a good impression.

[CallMeLoki 32]

April 2007, I made the acquaintance of my second seducer on a mesage board. We met, we enjoyed a weekend together, then we made plans for our next rendesvous. But, when I asked her about her reasons for inviting me to her home, she admitted that she performed a full site search of all of my posts. IOW, she re-read all of our correspondences, then backed up her opinion with research of what I posted when I wasn't trying to make a good impression.

 

Yup, we have researched this young fellow quite well...my wife knows where he lives, where he graduated from college, what his degree is and what his GPA was, where he lives, the names of his parents and brothers, what his mom and dad do for a living, every post he's made on the forum where they met, she's passed his resume on to a job contact she knows, etc...neither one of us are at all concerned that she will be in any danger from him. Believe me, the last thing I would ever do is put my wife in danger (or allow her to put herself in any kind of danger).

 

Loki

[LokisFemaleHalf 15]

I am sooo excited! 7 days and I will be with my boy toy! Did I also mention that I am helping him get a job? This guy is totally safe, inexperienced, and this will be so good for my self-esteem! What woman doesn't want a willing and eager partner who is entranced by her????? Cannot wait to issue a full report, but only after hubby reclaims his woman!!!!!

[fun4Ds 1,098]

We are watching the date as well

 

Kind of ironic, your starting and adventure soon and we have abruptly stopped.... for now. Keep the torch lit for us

 

Thanks for staying in touch...... We have our fingers crossed, wishing the best for you two

[CallMeLoki 32]

Yeah, I have to admit that I'm thrilled for her. I truly want her to enjoy this to the max...if you're gonna have a little taboo weekend fling, might as well make the most of it, right? I'm cutting her off this Sunday and taking her toys away too. I want her to be so horny when she gets there that she gets wet from looking at a doorknob!

 

Loki

[mixtupcpl 169]

I'm really curious how this ultimately goes. My wife and I, early(ish) in our relationship did the "open" thing, but it was really to repair something we needed to repair (we have a long history). I have to say it was uncomfortable and VERY hard for me, but we made it through and it made us closer than ever. We now flirt with the idea of swinging as an extremely secure couple in our 30s with total mutual trust.

 

I have to confess I'm not sure I "get" the desire for a really stable, trusting, couple to not want to start by finding a connection with another couple in the LS (that is the only way we would go), but to each his/her own!

 

It may be too late now, but just PLEASE keep your eyes open. NEVER assume you can spot a predator (trust me - I have known some bad people that I know someone would never spot) and NEVER assume you have a hormone powered 22 year old "figured out". Also, just remember that a situation like this WILL change everyone (including Mr College Grad). And you need to be prepared for swings (no pun) in behavior afterward.

 

I'm pulling for you guys and hoping that this all has a great and sexy ending. For me personally, it's all red flags, but no one can ever know the full situation as well as you since you're there.

 

Also, kudos to the forum members here for being amazing as always!

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

Here's hoping it all works out to the highest expectations. Let us know how it goes. We're all waiting....

[CallMeLoki 32]

Hey folks:

 

Thanks for the thoughts!

 

She's at her destination right now, and her partner for the weekend should have arrived by now. I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't already banging it out at this very moment!

 

I have to admit, this is emotionally intense for me...probably the biggest intensity being to watch her drive away knowing what she's going to do! But, they aren't bad emotions (very little jealousy on my part because I truly WANT her to get some good things out of this...plus, the eroticness of what she's going to do completely overwhelms any jealousy for me anyway).

 

I expect there will be some emotions to deal with when she returns...probably the biggest being feelings of guilt on her part. But, I've assured her over and over that I'm good with this, I get to do it too when the opportunity presents itself, and that I want her to enjoy herself guilt-free. I approve of her and of what she's doing, and I just have to remember to make it clear to her...I did before she left and I have to remember to do the same when she gets back. I DO approve of her, I just have to remember to make sure I let her know that and make it obvious.

 

We did a written "Playtime Agreement" a couple days ago outlining our purpose, boundaries, how we should treat each other in regards to this, etc. That was good, it brought to light a point we hadn't thought about. We negotiated that one point (which was mainly just talking about what we meant and what we wanted for ourselves and each other), changed the wording to match what we both meant and agreed to, then printed it and signed it. It felt good for us to work through something so bizarre in a calm and loving way. And not surprisingly, the gist of the agreement was "treat each other the way we'd like to be treated", "we plan to stay together no matter how much extra fun we have", "we're giving each other freedom as an act of unselfish love and exaltation for each other". I feel totally comfortable with everything we agreed to, and she does too. And it's just obvious from reading the agreement that we have each other's hearts, ya know?

 

Us getting to the level of emotionally intimacy that we can talk about things like this and allow each other freedom like this I think really speaks well of our relationship with each other. Yeah, maybe this is an odd way to build emotional intimacy with your partner, but what the hell...if it works, use it, right?

 

Cheers,

Loki

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Thats cool you thought of us here on the board. I cant imagine how many of us are wishing the best for both of you this weekend. I wouldnt have guessed the written agreement, but your dang right. If that works it works.

 

We will all be in and out this weekend so post your thoughts. Hope you get a call everything is great on Mrs.lokis part.

 

How are you progressing with your pursueing of possible female playmates ?

 

And just what the hell are you up to this weekend any ways ?

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

I'm with fun4Ds. What the hell are you doing this weekend? Hey, we're both in Indiana, Wanna make a road trip?

 

Seriously, keep us posted as the weekend progresses. Like, little updates on how you're feeling, what you're thinking, doing, what you're heard from your wife, etc. Sort of an ongoing blog kind of. It'd be an interesting read.

[CallMeLoki 32]

Wow! Another emotionally intense moment. I had called her earlier this morning before her guest arrived to just tell her one last time "Take advantage of this, and enjoy it with absolutely no guilt". She called back about 4 hours later. Sounded happy but excited and nervous. We had agreed she'll give me all the details when she gets home and none while she's there...but I just couldn't sit here in suspense this whole weekend. I asked if her guest arrived, she said "yes". I said "Did y'all do it yet?" She said "Yes" with a nervous laugh. I said "Was it good?" She said "Yes" with another nervous laugh. With my own nervious laughs, I said "Good! I'm glad it was good. Now go do it some more." I'm not going to call her again...I don't want to interrupt anything. If she wants to talk to me, I'll let her call me.

 

Again lots of swirling emotions for me...not bad emotions, all good ones actually, maybe a few that are kind of neutral. But it's still intense...emotionally intense! I'm sure she'll feel this way when I go off for my own adventure.

 

Plans this weekend? I'm not looking to get a "strange lay" this weekend...I already have enough emotional intensity, and I'd rather just let myself feel my emotions around her and her experience instead of clouding them with any experience for me. Someone offered a sleepover for our daughter, so I'll take advantage of that...probably go have a few drinks or something, but definitely not looking to hook up with anyone this weekend. This weekend is about my wife...I want to keep it that way. When, it's my time, we'll make it all about me. (That was part of our "Playtime agreement" by the way...to insure that we make each other's experience "about them" rather than "about me"...in other words, both of us need to be totally unselfish about it.)

 

Loki

[Chicup 41]

Well I can't say I can relate, or that for most couples that this would be a good idea.

 

Luckily what I say doesn't matter, if its working for you and makes you both happy then its good.

[CallMeLoki 32]

How are you progressing with your pursueing of possible female playmates ?

 

Oh, I didn't answer this part of the question. Well, I'm a reasonably attractive man, so I don't think it'll be impossible to find a lady willing to do me.

 

One target has been a waitress that I could just eat the panties right off of (she was an exotic dancer for a short while too...she's a smokin' hot young lady with a great personality)...my wife has said she's hot enough that she might enjoy doing a threesome with her. For me, an FMF threesome is the fantasy I'd really like to live out (although I can definitely say that a whole 3-day weekend away alone with someone I like is sounding more appealing the more I think about it). However, I don't think we're going to be able to engage that waitress in any naughtiness...she has a BF and it seems that she is trying to be really "good" for him right now (in fact, I gather he's why she left the strip club to become a waitress even though she was clearing $1K/night at the club...I sense some resentment building in her...maybe she'd say "OK" if we just ask? I dunno.) We've invited her to come have some drinks with us after work and do some hot-tubbing with us...she's said "I'd love to", but she hasn't taken us up on any offers to hang out a bit yet. She just started cosmetology school and is now working nights at the restaurant, so I'm thinking she's probably feeling too tired for a whole lot of fun. I haven't written her off, but that doesn't look too likely to me, unfortunately. As far as the BF, I see it as her decision if she wants to engage in some naughtiness with us...she's responsible for managing her relationship with her BF, not us. (Isn't that the same for everyone?) I can tell she thinks I'm hot too, but she just won't let herself get close enough to feel tempted, I think.

 

Now, one of my best friends who's a girl (also one of my wife's friends) made a joke not too long ago about having a threesome with us. Needless to say, my heart skipped a couple beats...she's a gorgeous Italian woman, we've been teasing each other for years now, etc. I think she was mostly joking, but then I know she's a little curious about playing with another woman, so there might have been just a little bit of seriousness in her joke. Anyway, my wife and I talked about it, but my wife has said that she just wouldn't do a threesome with this person because she's just too close to us (wouldn't even watch). So, that sort of *blocks* any threesome possibility on that front, even though there *might* be some interest from her. (However, my wife did give me permission to take her away for a weekend, or take advantage of the situation if an opportunity emerges with her.) I have to consider that she's such a close and dear friend that I really wouldn't want to risk damaging our friendship, it wouldn't be worth losing a lifelong friend over a little carnal gratification. However, if she decided she wanted to jump my bones one night, I'm damned sure not going to stop her. Now, she's also married to one of our other friends, but ya know in thinking about it...her hubby has asked me for permission to sleep with my wife (I laughed and said "OK, you have my permission, but you'd have to convince her, not me." )...he didn't hesitate to go ask my wife if she'd sleep with him, and she of course told him "no". (He's a really handsome fellow, but the poor guy is just so blindlessly self-centered that no one wants to bonk him, not even his wife.) So, I don't think I'd actually feel guilty about asking this woman if she wanted to bang it out with me, given he's propositioned my wife. Would I feel guilty if we actually did bang it out? Ya know, I'm not actually sure...if he hasn't cheated on his wife, it's only because he hasn't had the opportunity, and obviously NOT because he doesn't have the intention! (And she doesn't know this either. And I can't tell her...if her and I did ever engage in any naughtiness, I would feel like I had used this info as leverage, and I really wouldn't want to do that. If she decides to throw me down, I'd want it to be because she finds me irresistible, not because she's trying to get even...is that being too idealistic? Is a "grudge fuck" still good sex? LOL) In thinking about it, I do think this woman is emotionally mature enough to manage her emotions and see it as just some shenanigans that we decided to engage in once (or twice ).

 

I have a divorced co-worker who's an attractive woman...but....she really just doesn't turn me on, not exactly sure why. Plus, we're going to be working on the same team...I don't know how well she could manage her emotions, so that might get awkward. Definitely not a good choice, I think.

 

I don't think I really have any other possible "candidates" at this point. But hey, the night is still young!

 

Loki