CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 Just had a call from my wife. Whew...another swirl of intense emotions. (Still good emotions...just intense.) They've banged it out 3-4 times today. I told her that the suspense is just killing me (I'm one of those people who'd rather just know everything than be kept in the dark, ya know?), so I had to ask...but I still definitely honor her wish to deliver all the juicy details later. I'm glad she called...I know that she's safe (that was really my biggest concern), but her call confirms it for me. And I'm missing her...especially knowing she's off bonking someone else repeatedly! Anyway, they're going out for a while...probably some drinks, then more sex. I still feel good for her that she's getting a thrill, and I'm glad that she's not disappointed in the experience, and glad that she doesn't seem to be feeling guilty about any of it. I just cannot wait to hear all the details when she gets home. The phone calls are short (unusual for her!), but I'd imagine she doesn't want to talk in front of her guest. I'm sure it's all still quite surreal for her...it's certainly still quite surreal for me. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 Ya know, I'm really glad my wife called me earlier, without any prompting from me. I'm committed to not calling her so I disturb or distract any fun...but I have to admit I think I would be feeling "left out' in some sense if she hadn't called me. Another thing...I'm not nearly as turned on by this as I expected to be. I think it's because I'm kinda still in the dark until she gets back. I know they've had sex multiple times, and I know at least the first time was good for my wife, but I don't know if the other times were good too (I'd assume they were if the first time was good), I don't know how many times they've banged it out now, and I don't know any of the details. I hope she isn't shy about sharing all the details when she gets home...I just cannot wait to hear it all. I think hearing the details will get me just immensely turned on. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 Before my wife left for her weekend encounter, she asked me "how did we get here?" I was thinking about her question...if I recall correctly, here's how we got where we are: 1) My wife encouraged me to go enjoy some time at a strip bar. I did...she was completely turned on by it. 2) We started to fantasize about all sorts of things...I told her my biggest fantasy was an FMF threesome...I also discovered that I'd be (or think I'd be) totally turned on by an MFM threesome as well. 3) I am a stickler for fairness, so I wanted her to enjoy some erotic fun too, similar to some of my strip bar shenanigans. She wasn't interested in male strippers, so I encouraged her to engage in erotic chat/cybersex. She did and grew to enjoy it. We made plenty of jokes and comments about him coming down for a visit and a threesome. 3) As expected, her cyber-lover asked if he could come down for a visit and do the deed in person with my wife. 4) My wife didn't tell him no, she talked to me about his request instead. I realized that maybe she actually wanted to do this for real. At the time, I was assuming the thing in consideration was an MFM threesome. I thought it all over and said "OK, if this is something you want to do, then let's do it. I don't want to pressure you or anything of the sort...if you truly WANT to do it, then let's do it!" 5) We talked about boundaries. I suggested three possibilities...we could keep any interaction with him to just erotic play only (ie. at least one of them leaves their clothes on...the equivalent of a lap-dance, etc.), or we could say anything is OK except intercourse (ie. keep something sacred for just us), or we could allow anything and everything, except just use condom's (since I ride bareback thanks to my vasectomy, I could view using condoms as a "boundary"). My wife said "If we're going to do this, I want the whole enchilada". So be it...I thought it over and said "OK, condoms is the only boundary....as long as you allow me the same privilege." She said OK. 5) My wife and her cyber-BF talked about it all a bit. My wife said "He's young and inexperienced...we might need some alone time before he'd feel comfortable having another man in the mix, especially an experienced one." I thought this over carefully...she was asking to play alone. I didn't want her to miss what might be a great experience because I was unwilling to allow some alone time, so I pushed back my boundary on this and said "OK, you can have some alone time first to get it all warmed up". 6) My wife and I continued to talk about this. Then I realized that by "alone time" first she probably meant the first encounter alone, not just 30 minutes or so alone! Holy shit! This one I really had to think over for a while. We talked about it...my wife said "I'm think what I want is more of an open marriage than to be swingers". I thought that all over. I'm stuck on fairness, remember? As long as it's OK for both of us, I'm game for giving it a try, although I think we need to both have our first encounters and then do a "checkpoint" to make sure neither one of us feels like we are damaging our relationship. We talked about this and agreed to it. We've agreed this might be a one time thing for each of us, or it might be something we do occasionally...we don't know yet. 7) Her cyber-BF is young, recent college-grad, and will soon find a job, find a girlfriend, get married, etc., etc., etc. I told my wife one night "Ya know, if this is something that you truly want to do, then you should pick a date and just do it. The opportunity will eventually slip away, and I don't want you to feel disappointed if this is something you truly want to do." She booked a room that night. 8) We talked and talked and talked...every Monday she would feel guilt-laden and say "This is wrong! I can't do this." I would tell her that I just can't see how it's morally wrong if there's no deceit, betrayal, etc. She'd think it over and feel better. Now, here we are...she's having what I hope is the most erotic time she's had in a long time. She gave me opportunity after opportunity to call it off, but I didn't...I wanted her to have all the good things I think this experience will bring to her. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
fun4Ds 1,098 Posted August 30, 2008 I woke this morning hoping everything was going O.K. for you Loki. You are a great man enduring such a thing for your partner. I cant help thinking that Sif is experiencing something that most women could only dream of in a fantasy. Last night Mrs.fun, along with a friend and I, were talking and hoping everything goes well. You both are experiencing something we could never do. No one can say what direction this will go from this point on. I certainly have a feeling that you both will be going in the same direction together. Like you, we don't need the details today. Just knowing Sif is O.k. works for us. Mrs.fun was telling me how she might be feeling in the same situation. We agreed, no one will have the exact same experience. Like I say, in some ways we envy you both. Its not like either of you are telling us we should try things your way, we are wrong, or even missed something along the way. We all take different paths in this life. We are having a pretty slow weekend. A few AFL-CIO events today. For now, sex is pretty much out of the question for us. So following your thoughts are just like visiting with some friends. Before we went on our break from swinging we did take advantage of a couple of last adventures. We met a new single guy for a night of play and then another night of fun with a close Bi female companion. Mrs.fun has given me permission to play with our single female playmate, and friend of ours, here at the house. But for now, I am more worried about my wife than having sex. They were actually teasing me last night.... I love their bad girl attitude. But I have to say, a good heart felt hug feels great also. Who am I kidding....Honestly, the thought of Sif having fun is also very erotic rite now...... Stay in touch.... We are thinking of you both Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 Ya know, a thought occurred to me Thursday after my wife had left for her weekend but before she had gotten to her hotel. My wife knows that I truly love her, and I know that she truly loves me, and that this weekend is "just sex" (although we both realize and acknowledge that there will be some intense emotions along with it, I've told her that I want her to enjoy those emotions as much as the physical part of it). Anyway, she left with the expectation that the sex might not be that good...he's inexperienced (thus her being his "teacher") and had only had sex 8 times in his life so far, and all with the same girlfriend (of course, I'd imagine he's already exceeded that 8 times with my wife so far this weekend). So, her going with the expectation that the sex might not be that good is definitely the right attitude...that way, she won't be disappointed and might be pleasantly surprised (and was pleasantly surprised, I gather). Anyway, one of the thoughts I had was "how will I feel if he's a better lover than I am?" In thinking about that, again I have to put her first, and I said "I actually hope he is...I want her to get maximum enjoyment out of this". But after she left, the thought occurred to me that if he isn't as good as me, that will make her feel glad that her hubby is a good lover. If he is better than me, I feel like that will still endear her to me because I've given her this "gift" of a weekend away alone. So, I realized that I really don't need to feel any insecurities about it even if he is a better lover than me...she'll still feel endeared to me either way. That said, I'm glad her first was good and I hope it all has been good. Of course, I hope it's good for her partner too (and I can't see how it wouldn't be), but he's secondary...this is really "for her" in my mind. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 I woke this morning hoping everything was going O.K. for you Loki. You are a great man enduring such a thing for your partner. I cant help thinking that Sif is experiencing something that most women could only dream of in a fantasy. Yes, everything is OK with me. I get a very occasional pang of jealousy, but it's really not any intense jealousy...I handle that emotion really well anyway, I think...I'm just not a very jealous person. My thoughts that I really want this to be a good experience for her (before, during, AND after) really supercedes and nullifies any jealousy. I guess that's absolute love for your partner, isn't it? Putting their feelings first. And, I feel very secure in our relationship. Her lover for this weekend is a 22 year old recent college grad who doesn't even have a job yet. My wife and I have a 12 year marriage and a young daughter. No matter how good the sex is, it's just not like my wife is going to decide to leave me for this young man. I know that, and she knows that. That would be one of the most ridiculous decisions she could possibly make in her life...if she were even capable of making such a bad decision, I wouldn't even want her to stay with me! But she's not capable of making such a decision. (And even if she were just so overcome with emotions that she decided to do just that, she would quickly come to her senses and go "WTF have I done? I'm making the worst decision of my life! I need to turn myself around right now!") She's a smart and mature woman, and she knows that we have a good life together (we have rough spots, but what couple doesn't?). So, I feel very secure about her and I, and I'm just not worried about any emotional aftermath. I'm more worried that she'll feel guilt about her weekend than I am anything else. So, if you guys have any ideas about how I can help her get past any feelings of guilt, please post! I still get butterflies in my stomach periodically...but it's all good. Also, I'm sure when my wife gets home she'll probably be quite motivated to help me find a partner for me. And I'll take the help! I think it's quite difficult for a married man to proposition another lady...I'll just appear to be a cheating hubby. However, I'd tend to think my wife helping me proposition another lady (or hell, even pimpin' me out!) would be much more effective...don't you think? It seems most of the FMF threesomes that I've read about have come about with a friend of the wife where the chemistry was right for all parties, and not someone the hubby pursued. Of course, I don't intend to start planning my adventure the minute she gets in the door or anything. I want to hear all the details of her weekend, I want us to spend some time reveling in her adventure, and I want to give her time to let her emotions settle. We'll work on my turn in due time, I'm not in any big hurry or anything. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
sweet_tna 680 Posted August 30, 2008 I've been following this thread for a bit, too. I've found myself intrigued by your unconventional approach to the lifestyle and the other board members' reactions. Fascinating stuff on that level alone. I have no experience on which to base any advice, so I've kept my mouth shut. All I can say that Mr. Sweet and I have found ourselves in un-chartered territory, only to discover that you've got to do what works for YOU. In that vein, I've been thinking of ya'll and hoping all goes well. So . . . "I just wanted to say, good luck, we're all counting on you." =) Quote Share this post Link to post
mixtupcpl 169 Posted August 30, 2008 OK, I think you're real (confession - I havent been fully sure). Or if you're not real, you do understand this situation well from the point of view of someone in it So first, you're handling this very well. Kudos on that! I've been where you are actually. It was harder for me because it was earlier in our relationship and, while I did believe her that she wouldnt leave (and didnt), I was young (still 20s) and its just not something easy to handle at that age. My wife (then GF) and I did this for a few years. Just some things to see coming and not let screw you up: 1) you're going to want details, but they MAY hurt. It's different then swinging because, in the end, its still a single guy fucking your girl and you're still kind of left out. You can get past it, but it's going to be a masochistic pleasure 2) she's going to outnumber you. Been said before, needs repeating. My wife had like 5 "dates" before it seemed the ink was dry on our "agreement" (figurative - we didnt do anything in writing ) 3) you can believe her that she is for real with you (IF she is - only you know), but trust me... MANY of the guys she sees will think that you're a loser, that she isn't getting it from you and that she needs to drop the dead weight and get with THE MAN (them). It may not be the case with this guy (maybe you got lucky) but if you continue open (and not swinging) it WILL happen. I have to say that DAMN this used to piss me off. 4) when a guy would push hard for my wife to leave me (and again, we werent married yet then - just LONG term couple), she would break it off. Your wife NEEDS to do this too. One area where I think you guys are in a far better spot than we were is you are already a secure couple and you're an established guy. When my wife and I were living this LS, we were just mid-20s, new careers, no kids. The guys after her were mid 30s well established, etc. So there WERE times I thought "Oh Fuck - maybe she WILL leave". One guy in particular had me VERY worried because, being honest, he exceeded me in every area, but she stayed (and actually, ended up really disliking that guy) Thats all I got on this. PM me if you want to talk more man. I'm not sure how many people have really traveled this road (or can), EVEN on a board like this (which is ironic), so I feel we need to stick together. For us, it only made us stronger and now (in our upper 30's) are ready to full swap swing (if we can just get past our individual insecurities) Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 I'm a lucky fellow. I'm the only man that I personally know who never has to complain about not getting sex or not getting good sex from my wife. I'm the only one I know...seriously. And on this note...she's just so good in bed, it's a shame to NOT share her. My wife and I's sex life has always been good. Even in times when we weren't getting along all that well, we still had a good sex life. In fact, I think that's helped us get through some of our tough times, actually. We've turned up the heat and made our sex life even better over the past year or two. We've both dropped a lot of inhibitions. We've both allowed each other more and more freedom. I'm actually quite surprised that we've taken it this far...I would have never in a million years imagined that we'd be doing anything like this! But, it kinda seems like it has been a natural progression to me. I've been as gentle and loving as I know how to be in helping her drop inhibitions and overcome insecurities...I think she realizes that, and I'm sure it just makes her love me even more for who I truly am as a person. Anyway, I hope that what we're doing now (the "open marriage" part) will have the effect of making our own sex life even better than it already was. That's what I expect to happen, given what we've seen so far. The open marriage idea really forces us to build and maintain complete openness and honesty with each other. I just can't see how that tremendous depth of emotional intimacy won't carry over into the rest of our relationship. So, I feel like this is a good thing for us. If we discover somewhere in the future that it's not a good thing for us, we'll stop. We both put our relationship with each other first. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
mixtupcpl 169 Posted August 30, 2008 The open marriage idea really forces us to build and maintain complete openness and honesty with each other. I just can't see how that tremendous depth of emotional intimacy won't carry over into the rest of our relationship. Loki This part is VERY true. MAYBE even more so than swinging. Not everyone can do this because there is NO safety net here emotionally. Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 OK, I think you're real (confession - I havent been fully sure). Or if you're not real, you do understand this situation well from the point of view of someone in it What do you mean? Do you think this is just some made-up post? Not at all my friend...this is reality and it's happening right now! Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 This part is VERY true. MAYBE even more so than swinging. Not everyone can do this because there is NO safety net here emotionally. My safety net is that I completely trust my wife. Maybe I should post our "Playtime Agreement"? My wife and I both enjoy sex within the context of a relationship. I don't get much satisfaction out of banging someone I just met (I had two one-night stands in college...the sex wasn't bad or anything, but it definitely wasn't as good as sex with someone that you truly like as a person). I think for both of us sex includes physical and emotional pleasure. I know that's NOT the norm for swinging, but I think it'll be what works for us. I realize that we have to be cautious and guard our own emotions and our relationship. But, in reality, is there REALLY a safety net in "conventional" swinging? For that matter, is there REALLY a safety net against emotional attachments even if you don't swing? Do you lock yourselves up indoors and never allow your partner to speak to or interact with someone of the opposite sex? Relationships are based on trust, and I think that's true regardless of whether you are swinger, open relationship, non-swinger, etc. So, I don't see this as black-and-white...it's more like a continuum of grey. To me, it feels good to just let go and let my partner do this. There's nothing more reassuring than setting someone completely free and watching them still stick around...you know they truly WANT to live their life with you and not someone else. And if they don't stick around because they WANT to run off with someone else, would you want them to stay with you anyway? I wouldn't. Would I be hurt if my wife ran off with this 22-yr old? Absolutely, I'd be shocked, I'd feel emotionally crushed, and I'd feel completely stupid for giving her this "gift". I'm sure it would take me quite a while to overcome the hurt, but I would eventually recover and move on. However, I truly believe the probability of her running off with this dude is 0%. Make sense? Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
Chicup 41 Posted August 30, 2008 Let me play devils advocate, its my unofficial job here on the SB. This is a multifaceted thing you are doing. You are adding extra-marital sex, with mostly unknown singles, while separated physically, for multiple days. Its a potentially very volatile mixture. The big issues for me are not trust, or even safety (though it is an issue) but human nature. I once read a description of friendship as relating to shared activities, in what you are doing its not shared, except for vicariously, you are not part of this goings on any more than a grandmother hearing about the outcome of the little league game from her grandson across the country. Its not something you can both look back on the same way, good or bad. Another issue is love. I love my wife, my wife loves me, its a great thing. That doesn't mean I am now immunized from finding a new love or feeling it. I know I'm not. Love is not logical, its emotional and being a biologist, I know that really means its chemical. You don't pick who you love, it happens when the right set of circumstances are met. So you have someone spending time with others, without you in the mix, in intense circumstances. As pointed out in another post, many of these men will not respect you or your marriage, and some may be interested in having your wife as their own. I'm not saying your wife will be wooed by someone blatantly trying to get you to leave her, but that nice guy who really listens to her and is so good in bed who just seems so fun to be with who she can't wait to see again and again, well good luck if he starts to feel the same way. I'm well aware that there are some people who seem to do fine in an open marriage, hot wife, or cuckold type relationship. So I can't say it can't work, I can't say never or always. I can say that I'm always nervous for people trying this. Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 My wife (then GF) and I did this for a few years. Just some things to see coming and not let screw you up: 1) you're going to want details, but they MAY hurt. It's different then swinging because, in the end, its still a single guy fucking your girl and you're still kind of left out. You can get past it, but it's going to be a masochistic pleasure 2) she's going to outnumber you. Been said before, needs repeating. My wife had like 5 "dates" before it seemed the ink was dry on our "agreement" (figurative - we didnt do anything in writing ) 3) you can believe her that she is for real with you (IF she is - only you know), but trust me... MANY of the guys she sees will think that you're a loser, that she isn't getting it from you and that she needs to drop the dead weight and get with THE MAN (them). It may not be the case with this guy (maybe you got lucky) but if you continue open (and not swinging) it WILL happen. I have to say that DAMN this used to piss me off. 4) when a guy would push hard for my wife to leave me (and again, we werent married yet then - just LONG term couple), she would break it off. Your wife NEEDS to do this too. Thanks for the post. Let me address a few of these...good points. I don't think we plan to make this a regular thing. We may only do our one encounter each, and leave it at that. Or it might be something we do occasionally, we don't know yet. But, we don't plan to make it a weekly or monthly thing. This a "gift" we are giving to each other for being faithful to each other over the past 12 years. Sounds strange I know, but it's a "you've been good...for once or maybe a couple times, you CAN have your cake and eat it too." With me? Agreed on your other points. Here's the way I see it in general: - Men are usually looking for sex. - Women are usually looking for relationships. Agreed? If so, that means: - Woman looking for sex only = easy for her to find - Man looking for sex only = difficult for him to find - Man looking for a relationship = easy for him to find - Woman looking for a relationship = difficult for her to find Agreed? Now, my wife is VERY selective (because she can be...she's a gorgeous and enticing woman). She was very selective in picking a person, and I think she made a good choice. He doesn't want to "steal" an older woman with an existing family...he just wants some "training" and a wild weekend. He got it. For me, I'm kind of a girlie-man...I like relationships with people. I'm quite selective too...for the partner I eventually choose, it'll need to be someone that I have some kind of relationship or friendship with, and someone that I trust to a reasonable degree. I just wouldn't enjoy bonking someone I just met in a bar, for instance...that just really wouldn't do it for me. But, since I'm a "relationship guy", I befriend people easily (women included). It's a matter of just befriending the right woman who is willing and able to make it a "friends with benefits" relationship once. I just have to be VERY careful and insure the woman understands that she's a FWB for a a short time...we won't ever be anything more than that. We'll start of as friends, become FWB's for a time or two, then go back to being friends (or discontinue the friendship altogether if some issue emerges). That would be my plan. My wife completely understand and respects that fairness is very important to me. That was in our playtime agreement. I have absolutely no doubt that she will help me hook up and have the experience that I want. (With the only expection being having an FMF threesome with our very close female friend...but I respect her boundary on that, and she offered the alternative of just taking her away for a weekend. She said "You can do her, I just don't want to be part of it if it's her. I respect that you may feel differently than me about it, so if she's who you want then you can have her.") Also, my wife has no reservations that she wants me to have a similar experience and will help me accomplish that. If she had any doubts that's what she wanted, then SHE would have decided not to go. Her biggest concerns all along have been that this weekend would hurt me or hurt us. She gave me countless opportunities to call it off. She would have felt disappointed, but she would have not gone away if I had said "we need to put on the brakes". The last thing she wants to do is damage our relationship...the last thing I want to do is damage our relationship. We are rewarding each for good behavior, and making a choice that would hurt each other would defeat the purpose. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 Let me play devils advocate, its my unofficial job here on the SB. This is a multifaceted thing you are doing. You are adding extra-marital sex, with mostly unknown singles, while separated physically, for multiple days. Its a potentially very volatile mixture. The big issues for me are not trust, or even safety (though it is an issue) but human nature. I once read a description of friendship as relating to shared activities, in what you are doing its not shared, except for vicariously, you are not part of this goings on any more than a grandmother hearing about the outcome of the little league game from her grandson across the country. Its not something you can both look back on the same way, good or bad. Another issue is love. I love my wife, my wife loves me, its a great thing. That doesn't mean I am now immunized from finding a new love or feeling it. I know I'm not. Love is not logical, its emotional and being a biologist, I know that really means its chemical. You don't pick who you love, it happens when the right set of circumstances are met. So you have someone spending time with others, without you in the mix, in intense circumstances. As pointed out in another post, many of these men will not respect you or your marriage, and some may be interested in having your wife as their own. I'm not saying your wife will be wooed by someone blatantly trying to get you to leave her, but that nice guy who really listens to her and is so good in bed who just seems so fun to be with who she can't wait to see again and again, well good luck if he starts to feel the same way. I'm well aware that there are some people who seem to do fine in an open marriage, hot wife, or cuckold type relationship. So I can't say it can't work, I can't say never or always. I can say that I'm always nervous for people trying this. Just to be clear...we're not planning on competing to see how many different people we can lay. This is a one time thing by default...if it's good for both of us and our relationship, we may decide to do it again. I don't plan to find 10 different lovers and neither does my wife. I really should post our agreement! I'll do that next... Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 Ahhh...my beloved wife just called me. They went out to see a late movie, talked for a while last night, and went to sleep. She said everything's going fine, everything's still good. I don't think they've banged it out today yet, but I told her to have some more fun while she's still got time. She whispered in the phone when she got a chance (she didn't want him to hear): "It's good, but no one can hold a candle to you." Got me a little choked up there. (And knowing my wife, she means not just sex, but the whole package, the whole person.) See folks? This is why I'm not worried. She also whispered "On your turn, get someone older." She couldn't tell me any details, but I know she'll tell me all about it when she gets home. So, I think it's a good experience, maybe just not as mind-blowing for her as I would have hoped? We'll see I guess. I asked her if she was feeling any guilt...she said "No, not yet." I have to make sure that I help her get past any guilt she might feel. And here's the thing that maybe I haven't made clear: This is the first time in my wife's life that she has ever had sex with someone without being "in love" with them. This is a leap for her in terms of seperating lust from love. This is the first time in her life she's been able to "act like a slut" (her own words). I feel like this is a really good thing for her...it *frees* her from some of her own...um...beliefs? Tendencies? Not sure of the exact right word here. In fact, I'd have to say that I'm beginning to believe that being able to seperate lust from love is an important skill that every person should learn, preferably when they are young. I think a lot of people mistake lust for love, or convince themselves they are in love with someone simply because they lust for them, etc. I think there'd be a lot less people getting married then divorced if we could learn to seperate those two, and a lot more people having very stable relationships that last a lifetime. Just my opinion though. Just talking to her for a bit has really settled my emotional roller coaster ride. Now, I'm feeling more turned on about it. I can't wait until she gets home...I'm going to "reclaim" her with conviction! Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 Oh, on looking for a partner for me...I just had a thought about my best-friend-who's-a-girl...when I was single (knew her before I knew my wife) and she was dating her now hubby, she used to try to hook me up with women she knew. She introduced me to all her female friends, and always talked me up as someone special (we do think very highly of each other). Most of her female friends tend to be very attractive women. Just a thought here, but perhaps my wife and I should engage her for a little help in pimping me out. LOL. My wife and I agreed to not let any of our friends in on our dirty little secret, but I know she knows other couples who are open or are swingers, and I also know she wouldn't judge us and could keep the secret. (Plus she's VERY observant...she may very well figure out something's going on anyway just from little jokes we've made, comments that slipped out, phone calls she's overheard, etc.) I'll mention this to my wife late next week I think and see what she thinks. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 OK, so here's our playtime agreement that I wrote, my wife reviewed and suggested changes to, and we both signed. We both agree to the following terms: 1. We understand and agree that these adventures are primarily about expressing our love for each other by giving each other the “gift” of living out some fantasies, having some experiences we’ve never had before, and other similar playtime adventures, whether alone or together. We agree that we like to see each other happy and having fun. 2. We agree to put each other first in terms of insuring that we make each other feel loved first. 3. We agree that keeping us and our family together and happy is the most important thing to both of us, and that we won’t knowingly put ourselves in any situation that might jeopardize that. 4. We agree to put each other first in terms of giving each other whatever it is that the other needs or wants as an adventure or experience, up to our own boundaries. 5. We agree to be unselfish in allowing and helping each other arrange and execute adventures. We agree to not make the other’s adventure “about me”…instead it’s “about you” and/or “about us”. We agree that being unselfish about it will endear us to each other rather than create frustration, guilt, or other issues. 6. We agree to encourage and reassure each other, and deliver assists when needed or requested. We agree to keep the perspective that “it’s just sex”, although we both acknowledge that involves physical and emotional pleasure. We agree to encourage each other to enjoy the physical and emotional pleasure without guilt, but to keep the perspective that it’s just a temporary engagement, enjoy it while it runs it’s course, and only “keep” each other in this regard. 7. We agree to completely trust each other, even in situations where the intentions might not be completely clear or are misunderstood. We agree to trust each other by default, and ask for any explanations that we need in a gentle and loving way. 8. We agree to respect each other’s boundaries. We agree to consider pushing back our own boundaries for the benefit of each other when asked or when it seems necessary to make an adventure happen, but we also agree to ask/discuss it in a gentle and loving way, and not pressure nor coerce each other to push back boundaries that are important to keep. 9. We agree to gently remind each other to be fair when necessary, and we agree to be receptive and listen to one another if or when any fairness issues present themselves. We agree to treat each other the way we’d both like to be treated. 10. We agree to allow each other to make some mistakes, and to assist each other in recovering from any mistakes. We also agree to admit when we think we’ve made a mistake, and ask for help from each other in overcoming that mistake if or when either of us need it. We both agree to accept each other as we are, and forgive any mistake or unintentional bad choice. 11. We agree to never bring up any of our adventures in an argument, nor ever use any adventure as any flavor of “emotional weapon” against each other. These adventures are to lift each other up, not knock each other down. 12. We agree to talk openly and honestly about what we want or need, how we feel, what we think or believe, what concerns we have, etc. We agree to listen to each other and do our best to understand some of the complex emotions the other feels. We agree to answer completely honestly any question the other asks, and to do so in a gentle and loving way. We agree to reward each other for being honest and candid rather than “punishing” each other. We agree to not hide anything from each other that we think is relevant, important, or that we think the other would want to know or should know. 13. We agree to work out any unexpected problems or issues between us around these adventures in a gentle and loving way. This is for each other and us, we are giving each other freedom to enjoy playtime, and we agree that this act is an expression of unselfish love for each other. 14. We agree to talk about some planned or considered adventure as much as needed to reassure the other. 15. We agree to help each other overcome any guilt or similar feelings either of us might have before or after an adventure. 16. We agree to be honest and candid about any unexpected emotions that might erupt toward any other parties involved in an adventure, and we agree to help each other work through any unexpected emotions in a gentle, loving, and unselfish way. 17. We agree to clearly communicate our intentions if we will be in a social setting that might lead to some unplanned playtime, whether alone or together. We agree to let each other know that one of us is about to engage in some playtime if at all possible. If not possible, we agree to let each other know what transpired as soon as feasible. 18. We agree that either of us can call a “stop” to any activity that might be in progress in any situation, and we agree to honor each other’s request, even if we’re not together. We agree to discuss the situation in a kind and loving way to determine what caused the discomfort as soon as it’s feasible to do so. We agree to keep our concerns just between the two of us in a situation where one of us has called a stop. 19. We agree that we don’t know yet if this will be a one time thing for each of us, or something we might do periodically. We agree that we’ll talk about it all before and after any adventure and decide as we go whether it’s something we want to just enjoy once, or something we want to do from time-to-time as the opportunity presents itself. 20. We agree to take the emotional intimacy this helps create for us, and apply it to other areas of our relationship. How's that? Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
sweet_tna 680 Posted August 30, 2008 Loki, for what it's worth, I like that agreement. It shows how much you two love each other and how much thought you've given th =) Quote Share this post Link to post
mixtupcpl 169 Posted August 30, 2008 LOL! You guys penned the Magna Carta! Seriously though, it sounds like your heads are in a good place and I think you will pull through this fine. My wife and I did and it was under much worse circumstances. I still think that with your level of maturity and the bond you guys have, you would be really successful at connecting with another couple, but thats a totally personal decision and if this is right for you guys then thats great. I think everyone here who has thrown up caution flags only did so because these folks actually read, think and care about what people ask (which is amazing about this site) I like your "one time" idea. That completely changes the dynamic. I also totally relate to your feeling of "reclaiming" her. That was big for me as well. Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 Oh, on looking for a partner for me...I just had a thought about my best-friend-who's-a-girl...when I was single (knew her before I knew my wife) and she was dating her now hubby, she used to try to hook me up with women she knew...perhaps my wife and I should engage her for a little help in pimping me out.... Ya know, my mind is just spinning because this has been such an emotional rollercoaster weekend! So, another thought here...this could be a really good idea or a really bad idea. What if she said "Well, I'm game!" It's quite fun to muse about having a threesome with her and my wife, or even to muse about taking her away for an erotic weekend, now that I think about it. But...I'm not sure I'd want to make that a reality. We're life-long friends, our kids are growing up together, we all lean on each other when we need to...man, that's really not something I'd want to mess up. And I know if she offered, I'd find it awefully hard to resist...especially since I already have permission from my wife to do her if the opportunity presents itself. I have to admit I've waffled on this thought quite a bit lately in thinking about my turn. The woman in question is simultaneously the best candidate (because of the mutual friendships) and the worst candidate (because of the mutual friendships). I last told my wife that I won't actively pursue this person...but if she ever decides to jump my bones, I ain't gonna say "no" either. My wife agreed. I don't think she would decide to just throw me down and go at it, so this seems like a "safe" mindset for me, I think. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 I hope my wife is getting laid again right about now. I hope she's got her cyber-BF tied up right now and is torturing and teasing him with her sexy body and mind! So, on the "one time" thing, yes that does change the dynamic quite a bit. Now, what we were originally shooting for was a MFM threesome for her and a FMF threesome for me. That morphed into a weekend away for her, and she has offered the same thing back to me. For one thing, she wasn't sure if she could even perform in front of me, and her cyber-BF was quite nervous about that thought as well. So, her week alone with him could lead to an MFM with the three of us, which I'm definitely game for. But, I'll leave that to her...I only want her to do something she's totally comfortable with. And I think I'd know how I would feel in an MFM, but I don't know for sure. So, the one time each could lead to threesomes for both of us, which is a pretty cool idea. That's kind of the goal, but we're still going to start slow and proceed carefully. I think the good thing about the weekend away was that I'm much less likely to call a "stop". Which is good...I wouldn't want her to feel disappointed because I unexpectedly got uncomfortable and needed the action to cease. So, I'm wondering for me if the same would be true? She's seen me humping and being humped by a stripper, for instance, and she was completely turned on by it. But that's just some erotic play, actually having sex with another woman in front of her might feel much more intense to her. So, I'm trying to figure if me doing a weekend away would be a good way to start. I know my wife would surely have some of the same intense emotions I have ahd, but I haven't felt uncomfortable enough to grab the cel and call "stop", and I actually doubt that she would either. Hmmm...so maybe the weekend away (you know it's happening but you're not there seeing it, so it's not *quite* as real because it's not right in front of your face) would actually be a good way for me to start? Maybe a weekend away would then lead to an FMF including my wife, similar to our intentions for her? Thoughts? For me to do a weekend away, it would HAVE to be someone I really, really like as a person AND someone I find at least *sexy enough*, which narrows the candidates down even more. I would be much less selective I *think* for an FMF, because my wife would be there and part of the action...so all the emotions I could possibly want are right there with me...the "like" is already covered via her. (Yeah, I kinda like my wife if you haven't gathered that yet. ) Does that make any sense? Anyway, on one hand I'm kinda not sure I'd want to put my wife through a weekend of intense emotions while I'm off doing someone else. But then, the emotions weren't bad emotions...they were just swirling, mutating, and...well...intense. I've felt excitement, nervousness, happiness (for her having a great experience), arousal, a little fear ("Oh shit, what have I done!"), just a tad of short-lived jealousy, antsy-ness, contentment (in that this is good for her and us, in my belief...I expect she'll come home with quite a boost in self-confidence), proudness of her (for having the balls to actually do this AND be the first one of us to go...I know that was hard for her, it would have been hard for me), a little worry (have I influenced her to do something that will leave her with guilt? I sure hope not!), etc. It's a swirling vortex of emotions, but that doesn't mean it was bad...just intense. So maybe it would be good for her to experience this? Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
mixtupcpl 169 Posted August 30, 2008 RE: the hookup with a close platonic friend... I wouldnt do it, personally. Been in that situation as well and, while we came close, ultimately decided to walk away from that. It's so tempting for the reasons you point out, but it will change things almost inevitably. I had two single platonic friends who did this and it was a mess both during and then afterward. The friendship isnt worth that risk. Focus on the waitress On the topic of your encounter... My wife and I are a LOT like you and your wife (too bad you're in NC). She can't be in the same room with me which is why our pref would be full swap, but separate rooms and only with a couple we had established trust with. She couldnt really cut loose with me there and, while she really wants me to fuck another woman, she isnt 100% sure she wants to actually see it (but she REALLY wants to hear about it). As for whether your wife would be more or less comfortable in the room or with you on a weekend away, I say just let her make the call on that. You guys have established great communication and a ton of trust. Personally, I would lean towards the FMF. You made some great points in an earlier post about how men and women are different. Taking some girl away for a long weekend can be maybe even MORE sticky than the wife doing it once the girl has fully bought into it. Who knows what's going through her head really. At least with FMF you'll essentially be seeking out a single to add to a swing scenario. Hard to do, but everyone is more likely to be on the same page. BTW - did you say WEEK alone??? Is that a typo or is she actually away for a full week and not just a weekend? Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 BTW - did you say WEEK alone??? Is that a typo or is she actually away for a full week and not just a weekend? Ooops! I meant weekend...she drove there Thursday and spent the night by herself, just to "chill". He showed up about 11am or so on Friday. She'll be coming home on Sunday. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 RE: the hookup with a close platonic friend... I wouldnt do it, personally. Been in that situation as well and, while we came close, ultimately decided to walk away from that. It's so tempting for the reasons you point out, but it will change things almost inevitably. I had two single platonic friends who did this and it was a mess both during and then afterward. The friendship isnt worth that risk. Good points. But then again...most folks said we were absolutely crazy to send her away for a weekend alone with someone she met on the Internet, and I certainly feel like that is being successful. Seems like swinging with a very trusted friend would be a piece of cake after this! We made sure that she'd be at least as safe as she is anywhere else she might go alone, and she's having a good time. And I don't think she's been calling me from the alledged crawlspace where one poster said the police might find her body. We don't jump into things like this with reckless abandon...we think it over and talk it over very carefully. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 I feel like my wife and I are so complementary to each other. I'm very logical but still emotional, and she's very emotional, but still logical. We influence each other, and it's usually in good ways. I feel like we've established more emotional intimacy with each other over the past year or two than we've ever had (and some of it was painful for both of us). We were having a tough time about 6 months ago, but she REALLY turned us around. We are finally able to tell each other absolutely anything, and know that we won't punish each other, even if we don't particularly like what we're hearing. Ya know, I really couldn't be happier with "us" than I am right now. She is such an unusually wonderful person...she truly deserves this "gift"! Neither one of us would EVER even consider cheating on the other...it's just not in either one of us to do that. But now we've given each other permission to have sex with other people...at least a few times. That's what I meant by "have our cake and eat it too". We've essentially given each other permission to act on a crush or infatuation, I think is the most accurate way to put it. That's not exactly "swinging"...I'd say it's more of an "open marriage". We've both been completely faithful to each other, and this is our way of rewarding each other, I think. I was thinking. The "friends" posts above remind me...the person she's with this weekend isn't what I'd call a "swing partner". He's more of a friend to her (now FWB, at least once). They argue and debate politics and economics. She's helping him land a job. They discuss relationship issues. (And yes, I'm fine with that.) She advises him on finding a girlfriend. They have a connection. She adores him, and he adores her. I think they'll probably be friends for a long time...maybe FWB's another time or two, but I doubt this is something she'd want to continue long-term. She isn't "in-love" with him, and I think that she's emotionally mature enough to not let herself get to that point. And even if she did, I think she would come to me and tell me "I'm feeling in-love with this person...I need you to help me handle this...I need you to talk me out of it!" I really don't think my wife could just go screw someone she just met and doesn't know well as a person. The reality is that I don't think I could either. So, maybe this is slipping slightly into the "Polyamory" category? Now, her cyber-BF ain't moving in with us or anything (well, unless he's willing to do the laundry for her and maintain the yard for me, in addition to servicing her when she wants it. ), but I expect they'll have a long-term friendship (and I'm fine with that). They may lose touch after he's gotten a job, gotten a girlfriend or gotten engaged/married, etc. But even if they do, I'm sure this will always be a fond memory for my wife, and I'm sure it'll be a fond memory for him as well. I guess what I'm saying is that I think it's OK for her to let herself feel some emotions along with the physical satisfaction. I would want to allow myself to feel some emotions along with the physical satisfaction. I think we just have to keep the perspective that it's a temporary relationship of an amorous nature (a "crush" or "infatuation"), where our marriage is a permanent relationship based on a deep emotional connection, the commitments we've made to each other, and all the history we've built together. I've had other infatuations before (I never acted on them, this was before we arrived here), BUT I'm still totally infatuated with my wife after 12 years of marriage...always have been. This just seems to jive with the "seperate lust from love" idea...I completely love and lust after my wife, but it's possible to lust after other women at the same time...it doesn't mean I love them nor does it mean that I don't love my wife...it's just lust, a totally chemical reaction. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
fun4Ds 1,098 Posted August 30, 2008 Loki, All I can say is your truly amazing. Their is alot of men in the world that could learn alot from you...... If by chance we ever meet. I'm buying you a cold beer my friend May I ask how you and Sif came up with your screen names ? Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 Loki, All I can say is your truly amazing. Their is alot of men in the world that could learn alot from you...... Aw shucks. Why do you say that? I just *try* to let my heart and my head duke things out, and it seems like I usually come up with good decisions. Boy, I'm burning up this thread aren't I? I had to talk somewhere...can't talk to our closest friends about this one! Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 30, 2008 May I ask how you and Sif came up with your screen names ? Good question. If you've ever read any Norse mythology, Loki and Thor were Odin's sons. Loki was the god of mischief, and Thor was the god of thunder. Thor was married to a beautiful blonde goddess named Sif. While Thor was out making swords all day (thus the thunder he made), Loki was bonking his beautiful wife. When Odin discovered Loki's transgressions, he kicked him out of Asgard forever and banished him to Earth. The choice for my wife to have the screen name of Sif was easy. For me, I struggled between Thor (since he was Sif's hubby...I'm also a bassist, so making thunder is also something I do!), but I also have a slightly mischievous nature , so I finally decided on Loki instead. I do bonk Sif, so I figured that worked! Of course, this weekend I guess you could say I'm Thor and Sif is off frolicking with Loki! Loki/Thor Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 31, 2008 Hey folks...well, I'd have to say my emotional rollercoaster has really acquiesed quite a bit. I'm still thrilled for my wife, and hoping she's getting some more good action tonight. I think her last phone call really helped me reel myself in to my more normal state of my usual calmness/non-nervousness. We talked for a bit and she was able to actually respond with more than "yes" or "no" (I think she really didn't want to talk in front of her guest...not sure why, but that's the vibe I got). But, that last call was more like our normal conversations...I guess I was missing her, and just being able to talk more like normal for a few minutes felt reassuring I suppose? And her one whispered comment just still rings in my head: "No one can hold a candle to you." That one comment settled my nervousness...I don't know why, an expression from her of total love and appreciation of me even though she's in a hotel suite banging it out with another man, I guess? Boy, it just really impacted me. It's not like I was really worried, or feeling insecure, or anything like that...I guess it was just one of those heart-felt statements that really hits you, ya know? I guess she's doing exactly what we agreed to in our "playtime agreement"...insuring that she makes me feel loved first. There ya go. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
mixtupcpl 169 Posted August 31, 2008 My wife never wanted to talk when she was out beyond "yes Im ok" either. It caused lots of conflicting emotions in her (mainly guilt over what she was doing) that were tough to fight and could make the whole thing pointless. I think no matter how "safe" the environment is for something like this, human nature is what it is and neither party can just put all of that away fully if they really do care about their partner. It's the complete separation aspect of this specific scenario, I think, that makes the pangs of guilt (even if there is NO need to feel guilt), more acute. I'd guess you'll feel the same (I know I did when I finally started fucking someone else during our arrangement). Torn between feeling guilty about what's happening, and not wanting to offend the person your with, and then feeling guilty about putting that stranger first, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 31, 2008 Thanks, Mix. Actually that makes a lot of sense. I guess there's a fantasy surrealness to it, and talking to me brings it back to reality, or something along those lines then huh? Hadn't thought of that. It's a protection mechanism against feeling guilt at the moment. So, I'm glad I left her alone and didn't call her but once that first day. And you're right, I'm sure I'll feel guilt too, and come to think of it, I'd probably do the same thing...not want to talk other than "yes" or "no". I'll have to remember though that I should at least tell her something that let's her know that I'm still hers even though I might be with someone else. Actually, she hasn't wanted to talk to our daughter, so I knew there was some reason, and what you said makes a lot of sense. She knows our daughter will be asking all kinds of questions about what she's doing, and she'll have to lie to her. There's instant guilt for my wife. So, tell me this...when she gets home, what can I do to help her dump any guilt she might be feeling? Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 31, 2008 Man...now I'm wishing I hadn't asked her any questions at all. I hope I haven't made her feel any guilt while she's there. This is something we should have talked about before she went, but it never occurred to me that we should discuss ahead of time about any communication between us. All my wife said was "I don't want to give any details while I'm there, I want to wait until I get home", to which I definitely agreed. I simply couldn't stop myself from asking a couple yes or no questions without asking for any details though. Man, I wish I had realized this beforehand. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 31, 2008 OK, folks...based on what Mix said, I should assume that my beloved wife will come home with some feelings of guilt. You folks give me some suggestions on how to help her overcome any guilt she might have. She doesn't need to feel any guilt...she had my absolute blessing to do this, and I'm fine with anything that happened (even if some rules were accidentally broken). Knowing the conscientious person that my wife is, she will probably have some guilt. It's my job to help her get past it. So, advise me folks! I want her return home to filled with reasurrance, comfort, and approval. I'd also assume that I shouldn't start pounding her with questions when she gets here, right? I should just let her tell me all about it when she's ready, I'd think. I've got to remember to keep this about her, and not make it "about me" by hitting her with all sorts of questions before she's ready to tell me about it (no matter how much the suspense might be killing me when she gets here, this is about her, not about me). Mix, I'm so glad you made that post! Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
mixtupcpl 169 Posted August 31, 2008 Personally, I think you guys will be in good shape because of the environment you created for each other. Just be excited for her and happy to see her and let her ease into talking at her own pace. I can tell you what NOT to do When my wife came home the first few times I made it WAY worse. Without going into it too much, I was younger and an asshole really and I knew how to be hurtful. She would then get furious, say that I was an asshole for agreeing only to make her feel like a whore, etc. Then we'd fight. Then make up, rinse repeat. If you just stick with the plan, you'll be good. Personally, I think its more what NOT to do. And you're right re: your daughter, thats exactly what that was. Quote Share this post Link to post
josephanthony69 15 Posted August 31, 2008 First, I haven't read the whole thread so please don't hate me for jumping in, but this is a comment from the "other" side of the fence - presently in a couple of First time MFM's (now ongoing) as the other M. It has to be pre-meeting first where everyone (M, F, & M) are comfy with one another!! Next, it has to be fun, exciting, different, erotic, and SAFE!! for all concerned! Hope you all enjoy it and remember, as we age, there is a difference between love and lust - love is at home - lust can be whatever your fantasies want it to be! OK, I think you're real (confession - I havent been fully sure). Or if you're not real, you do understand this situation well from the point of view of someone in it So first, you're handling this very well. Kudos on that! I've been where you are actually. It was harder for me because it was earlier in our relationship and, while I did believe her that she wouldnt leave (and didnt), I was young (still 20s) and its just not something easy to handle at that age. My wife (then GF) and I did this for a few years. Just some things to see coming and not let screw you up: 1) you're going to want details, but they MAY hurt. It's different then swinging because, in the end, its still a single guy fucking your girl and you're still kind of left out. You can get past it, but it's going to be a masochistic pleasure 2) she's going to outnumber you. Been said before, needs repeating. My wife had like 5 "dates" before it seemed the ink was dry on our "agreement" (figurative - we didnt do anything in writing ) 3) you can believe her that she is for real with you (IF she is - only you know), but trust me... MANY of the guys she sees will think that you're a loser, that she isn't getting it from you and that she needs to drop the dead weight and get with THE MAN (them). It may not be the case with this guy (maybe you got lucky) but if you continue open (and not swinging) it WILL happen. I have to say that DAMN this used to piss me off. 4) when a guy would push hard for my wife to leave me (and again, we werent married yet then - just LONG term couple), she would break it off. Your wife NEEDS to do this too. One area where I think you guys are in a far better spot than we were is you are already a secure couple and you're an established guy. When my wife and I were living this LS, we were just mid-20s, new careers, no kids. The guys after her were mid 30s well established, etc. So there WERE times I thought "Oh Fuck - maybe she WILL leave". One guy in particular had me VERY worried because, being honest, he exceeded me in every area, but she stayed (and actually, ended up really disliking that guy) Thats all I got on this. PM me if you want to talk more man. I'm not sure how many people have really traveled this road (or can), EVEN on a board like this (which is ironic), so I feel we need to stick together. For us, it only made us stronger and now (in our upper 30's) are ready to full swap swing (if we can just get past our individual insecurities) Quote Share this post Link to post
mixtupcpl 169 Posted August 31, 2008 Joseph... Totally agree. This situation is a bit different though. It's really an "open marriage" thing and not really a swap/swing thing. I've been through that with my wife very early on (but for very different reasons than Loki), so I figured I'd share some of what to expect. I still feel that an open marriage and swinging are VERY different (although in Loki's case, maybe not so much given the foundation they've laid - no pun) Emotionally though, there is a big difference in the impact (even if you do everything you can to prepare) Quote Share this post Link to post
sexcupid 809 Posted August 31, 2008 Hey Loki! Hope this finds you before your wife arrives home. You ask how to make her feel less 'guilty'? Hug her, kiss her, hold her tight when you first see her. That in itself is reassuring. While in theory you are accepting of what she is doing, and KNOWING what she is doing. There is still that doubt that can creep into the mind of 'how is he going to react?' The way you greet her can either alleviate her worry or reenforce the idea that what she did was 'wrong'. Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 31, 2008 Hey folks! Thanks for the advice. I feel no emotional intensity today at all. My beloved wife is on the way home, and I just can't wait to see her. Don't worry, she'll get a very warm and affectionate welcome from me when she gets here...I wouldn't think of being an asshole to her in any way, shape, or form. It's just not even in me to be a jerk to her...I encouraged her and gave her my blessing to do this...I'd be an idiot to say something that would give her guilt for something I approved of her doing. I'm sure she'll cry a little (and I probably will too), and I'll just hold her and try my best to make her feel better about it all. She needs to know that I approve of her (in life in normal, but especially this)...and I do, I just have to make sure that I make that clear to her. I've talked to her on the phone twice since she left. She can't wait to get home to see me either. I told her that I've slept both nights with her slightly used pajamas beside my head on my pillow so I could smell her (which is true). I also apologized to her on the phone earlier for asking the yes/no questions while she was there. (Mix, thanks again for the post explaining that part!) I told her that I had just realized I was probably being selfish by asking those questions, and told her I was sorry. LOL...our little girl just put on a dress...she's getting gussied up for mommy's return home. There's no doubt that my wife will get a quite warm welcome from two people who totally love her and approve of her. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
rpu3 630 Posted August 31, 2008 OK, folks...based on what Mix said, I should assume that my beloved wife will come home with some feelings of guilt. You folks give me some suggestions on how to help her overcome any guilt she might have. She doesn't need to feel any guilt...she had my absolute blessing to do this, and I'm fine with anything that happened (even if some rules were accidentally broken). Knowing the conscientious person that my wife is, she will probably have some guilt. It's my job to help her get past it. So, advise me folks! I want her return home to filled with reasurrance, comfort, and approval. I'd also assume that I shouldn't start pounding her with questions when she gets here, right? I should just let her tell me all about it when she's ready, I'd think. I've got to remember to keep this about her, and not make it "about me" by hitting her with all sorts of questions before she's ready to tell me about it (no matter how much the suspense might be killing me when she gets here, this is about her, not about me). Loki: My position is more like that of your wife. I am in an open marriage. I do see my friend for the weekend at mutually agreeable times. My spouse sees his friend(s) as things work out. Not to diminish anything said previously, especially by Mix, since all of us have our own perspectives. At the end of the day, you are the one who knows your wife, I hope. My perspective? I hope you would not assume ANYTHING as to your wife's feelings. Let her come home with whatever feelings she has, and go from there, but please - let her have them and don't assume which ones she's going to have and have all the "right" actions and words ready for her. There are more things out there besides guilt, and your wife may or may not have guilt as one of her talking points. Maybe it's just me - but I, not anyone else, is responsible for my feelings and I alone am responsible for getting past whatever feelings I may have on any subject. It is not my husband's job to get me past it - it's my job. I ask for support from him if I need it or want it, and I do talk to my spouse, but I don't want him swooping in and making everything better. But if I feel crappy or good or bad or pissy, it's on me. I have no issue talking to my spouse and asking for advice or opinion or perspective, but ultimately, it's up to me to make things square for myself. What I do count on is that my spouse is willing to listen and offer his two cents if I ask. As to providing some space and not peppering her with questions - only you can answer that since you know your wife. I assume you can read the mood when she arrives and adjust accordingly. I know for myself, I don't really want to talk the minute I walk in the door. I'm shifting back to home life from the visiting life, and I like a bit of time to switch gears. Then we talk about the weekend. My spouse does not push the issue, he waits for me to talk. It's not like I make him wait weeks - I just need an hour or two of processing time, which is respected by my spouse. And there's a vice versa - my spouse is always happy to talk right after one of his outings but I don't really want to hear the blow-by-blow. I prefer to just have him come home, find out if he had a good time, and fall back asleep and we'll talk further in the morning. Thus, while I can appreciate you wanting to be well-prepared, I think it's one of those things that you two will need to find your own happy medium as to homecomings. I think just making it clear that you are supportive and there to listen whenever she's ready is a good start. As with everything, the above is just my .02 and your own mileage is likely going to vary. Good luck! Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 31, 2008 Thanks RPU...well, I'm only assuming she'll have some feelings of guilt because she told me before she left that she likely would. But, you're right...I should assume a blank slate, and just listen and let her tell me how she feels. It'll actually be after our daughter goes to bed before we can truly talk, but I'd imagine she'll need a little time to re-adjust to our norm when she gets here. I just hope that she feels good about all of it, and that any guilt she feels doesn't out-weigh the good things. And I agree, we ARE responsible for our own feelings. Completely agree. But we also strongly influence each other...I just want to make sure my influence is totally positive. I feel totally positive about it all, so that should be quite easy! One of the things we agreed to do with this is to treat each other the way we'd want to be treated, encourage and reassure each other whenever needed. I'm going to insure that I live up to my part of that commitment. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
mixtupcpl 169 Posted August 31, 2008 RPU, Thank you for posting!! thats a great perspective because its coming from the female side of this (something a guy can only guess at ) My wife is, in some ways, more like a guy in that she HATES to talk through feelings and emotional shit and wants me to just "know". So a lot of my conclusions about her feelings were based on observation and trial and error (lots of error). And of course everyone IS different, but I think on certain primal levels, most of us ARE similar. What you're saying really resonates. Once I was *actually* accepting of the arrangement (rather than just saying I was), I never initiated any discussion about the situation and instead just tried to make everything as "normal" as possible. That is what ultimately worked for us and got us to the point where it ended up good. Just curious... Why do you and your husband operate that way rather than "regular" swinging? (sorry to threadjack Loki, but I'm really curious) For my wife and I it was part of growing and, as bizarre as it sounds, healing due to our long and often fucked up history. Now that we are where we are (together for 22 years), that life seems so alien to us. Swinging with like minded couples we trust, however, holds a lot of appeal. I'm just curious how/why folks who seemingly are similar in many ways (you, me, Loki) are apparently wired quite differently. Quote Share this post Link to post
arvcpl 16 Posted August 31, 2008 DAMMIT!!! I've been off the boards the last couple weeks and missed all the build up and excitement:mad: I still hafta admit that I think this whole thing is nuts and carrys with it an inappropriate amount of risk. That risk is not just physical but emotional and risky to the stability of your marriage as well. That all being said however I am a man of honor and I will freely admit that I am glad that nothing bad happened and that nothing threatened the physical safety of Mrs Loki. I will also state that while I think this whole thing is crazy I am an undying supporter of free will and if sane (which I still question:lol:) sober and concenting adults want to do something that others think is crazy I support their right to do it as long as it does not hurt anyone else. If Mr and Mrs Loki are into this and it trips their trigger and works for them, all the power to them and I am happy for them if this is what they are into. I wish them the best and hope everything goes well for them now and in the future. I do also appreciate the step by step reporting of the process of this and hope that you continue to keep us abreast of things in the days and weeks and even months after Mrs Loki's return. I am still not convinced that this is going to be over once Mrs Loki returns home. I think there is going to be ripples from this for some time to come and those ripples may be positive, may be negative and probably will be a mixture of both. I am interested in continuing to hear how things go now that it has occured. It may be an interesting story to hear the build up and the immediate rush of excitement while everyone is still basking in the afterglow but I think the "REST OF THE STORY" is going to play out in the weeks and months after wards. Thank you for sharing your adventure and experiences with us! Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 31, 2008 OK, my soul-mate is home! She walked in, walked up to me with tears in her eyes, and grabbed me and put her head on my shoulder. We stood there and held each other for about 30 mins while she cried. Then, we moved to the couch and just held each other. She hasn't said a word yet, but she doesn't have to. I don't know exactly what she's feeling right now, but I know she isn't ready to talk. I'm sure she's emotionally exhausted. I'll wait patiently until she's ready to talk...I don't want to pressure her, so I'll wait for her, whether it's tonight or a day or two from now. She's dozing on the couch right now. I left her a "welcome home" love note hanging on the door telling her I love her, adore her, approve of her, etc., etc., etc. (I periodically will hide a little "love note" for her somewhere so she can find it later. She didn't see this one though even though it was taped to the door...she was looking for me the second she got home.) I have to say that the swirling vortex of emotions for me personally is completely gone. I can't say I've ever felt anything exactly like this. Most "swirling vortexes" of emotions I've ever experienced have been really negative (caused by really bad or painful events)...this is the first positive "swirling vortex" I think I've ever experienced. I'm just hoping that after my wife's emotions settle a bit that this was a very positive experience for her. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 31, 2008 DAMMIT!!! I've been off the boards the last couple weeks and missed all the build up and excitement:mad: I still hafta admit that I think this whole thing is nuts and carrys with it an inappropriate amount of risk. That risk is not just physical but emotional and risky to the stability of your marriage as well. That all being said however I am a man of honor and I will freely admit that I am glad that nothing bad happened and that nothing threatened the physical safety of Mrs Loki. I will also state that while I think this whole thing is crazy I am an undying supporter of free will and if sane (which I still question:lol:) sober and concenting adults want to do something that others think is crazy I support their right to do it as long as it does not hurt anyone else. If Mr and Mrs Loki are into this and it trips their trigger and works for them, all the power to them and I am happy for them if this is what they are into. I wish them the best and hope everything goes well for them now and in the future. I do also appreciate the step by step reporting of the process of this and hope that you continue to keep us abreast of things in the days and weeks and even months after Mrs Loki's return. I am still not convinced that this is going to be over once Mrs Loki returns home. I think there is going to be ripples from this for some time to come and those ripples may be positive, may be negative and probably will be a mixture of both. I am interested in continuing to hear how things go now that it has occured. It may be an interesting story to hear the build up and the immediate rush of excitement while everyone is still basking in the afterglow but I think the "REST OF THE STORY" is going to play out in the weeks and months after wards. Thank you for sharing your adventure and experiences with us! My friend, I truly, TRULY appreciate your concern. However, I know my wife (and myself) better than anyone on this board. She is an exceptional human being. (And I'd like to think I am too.) I wouldn't be married to her if she wasn't. I'm not really not concerned about any aftermath. I might be wrong, but I really don't think I am. My wife is awake...she's smiling and we're cracking a few jokes about her weekend. We can't really talk until our daughter goes to bed (assuming she's ready to talk tonight...who knows, we might just enjoy re-discovering each other tonight and talk tommorrow...whatever she wants/needs is good with me). Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
mixtupcpl 169 Posted August 31, 2008 You guys will be good. I'd be shocked if you're not. It's hard for many folks to understand, I'd suspect, because I think most people aren't really wired to be able to make it through this scenario (even many active swingers, oddly enough) My wife and I made it through this period with much worse circumstances around it. I think your wifes reaction coming home was interesting. My wife felt guilt, but only if she was unable to put me out of her mind during (like me calling) or if I triggered it deliberately (which in the beginning I did masterfully) I think because you guys are actually a mature and "bonded" couple, the roller coaster will be a bit different. Also really interested in hearing how it goes. Once things are normalized, do you think she'd post? Quote Share this post Link to post
CallMeLoki 32 Posted August 31, 2008 You guys will be good. I'd be shocked if you're not. It's hard for many folks to understand, I'd suspect, because I think most people aren't really wired to be able to make it through this scenario (even many active swingers, oddly enough) My wife and I made it through this period with much worse circumstances around it. I think your wifes reaction coming home was interesting. My wife felt guilt, but only if she was unable to put me out of her mind during (like me calling) or if I triggered it deliberately (which in the beginning I did masterfully) I think because you guys are actually a mature and "bonded" couple, the roller coaster will be a bit different. Also really interested in hearing how it goes. Once things are normalized, do you think she'd post? Yes, I think we will too (be just fine, that is). And yes, I'm sure she'll post all about it when she gets an opportunity (don't expect it for a few days though I'd imagine...her and I come first .) Plus, it'll take her forever and a day to just read everything I've posted here over the weekend. Loki Quote Share this post Link to post
fun4Ds 1,098 Posted August 31, 2008 Yes, I think we will too (be just fine, that is). And yes, I'm sure she'll post all about it when she gets an opportunity (don't expect it for a few days though I'd imagine...her and I come first .) Plus, it'll take her forever and a day to just read everything I've posted here over the weekend. Loki No questions from us, just glad Sif is home and you are in each others arms. Welcome back Sif Thanks for letting us hang out with Loki a little bit here on the board Quote Share this post Link to post
LokisFemaleHalf 15 Posted September 1, 2008 Ok, friends, I am home, sore, exhausted, confused, and an emotional masterpiece, but I did not end up in a crawlspace, and I am safe and sound. More details later after I have been debriefed and submitted to hubby!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post
LokisFemaleHalf 15 Posted September 1, 2008 Ok, I am home, not dead, and was treated like a lady all weekend. I am an emotional mess, been crying since I checked out of the hotel, but I will be glad to be reclaimed by hubby. I will post more details later when I have sorted out all the junk. Right now I am enjoying too much wine, and trying to debrief myself LOL...... Quote Share this post Link to post
