I am upset that "feelings" came into it...need advice!

[nervous2tryagai 15]

Hi everyone,

This is a long one, and I really need some feedback from someone who understands, so grab a cup of coffee and read on

 

Situation is this. Approached by the wife of a couple that we know very very well. I was interested, hubby was a bit more reserved. Finally got all on the same page. Ground rules were set. We were doing this with people we knew because we felt that there was less of a chance of "love" coming in to play, as with a stranger you don't know. Hubby told me he didn't want to know a play by play of what I did. I told him I wanted to know when he did - it added excitement for me, picturing him with someone else.

 

I never did much. Some petting and kissing. I was led to believe nothing happened between hubby and other woman. I knew some emails were happening, but was told it was "light bantor". Things hit the head so to speak 3 weeks later when it felt like something was going on that I was unaware of. There had been, in fact, 3 secret meetings of full blown sex, phone sex, hubby telling the woman about some of our fights, and her adding her two cents, putting me in a bad light. She pushed for "secret". Told my hubby to delete all emails, make sure phone calls couldn't be traced, etc. Broke the rules her hubby put on her (no cumming inside her, etc). Told my hubby she loved him during sex and begged him to say it to her. Lies, betrayal. Her telling him she was in love with him. And then both of them telling me nothing happened. Hubby, filled with grief and shame told me everything. SHE felt betrayed by him. That he broke her trust. There's so much more but it would take forever to put here and you'd get bored.

 

Not sure what to do. I do believe hubby was very manipulated, but again, he is not blameless. I do believe he loves me and wants to take back the pain he caused me. She would swing with him again in a heartbeat. These "friends" are like family and we have to see them often.

 

Our sex life since all this has been wonderful. Less inhibited, more creative. I think in a sick way, knowing how much she wanted him, makes me want him so much more. Does that make sense? We have talked about taking it slowly with STRANGERS in the future. It is something that I really want to be able to experience. Right now, I am trying to understand how a good, grounded man, could let it get so far before ending it. Any one had this happen? How do I handle all of this? I feel very betrayed and love my husband and want to be with him. I just want to find a way to get past the hurt that came out of it. Let me say, I am not upset about the sex. I am upset that "feelings" came into it. Hubby says it was fantasy, never reality. I do believe it was her reality. She wanted him and wasn't happy with just sex and told him that. Again, these ppl are like family and I have to see them all the time. How do I handle this? Thanks so much for any advice and for hanging in this long!!

[2inSanDiego4u 181]

These "friends" are like family and we have to see them often.

 

Wow! You should stop seeing them, at least for a while, and get into some form of couples counseling. That is just an opinion, but it sounds like you need to work on your relationship before proceeding with the lifestyle.

[tittietwister 126]

That's an affair - not swinging.

 

Sounds like she knew what she wanted and the overture to swing was just a pretense to pursue a relationship with him. Now he's shown he can't be trusted to honor rules.

 

I think you need to less concerned about experiencing swinging and more concerned about understanding why he succumbed so easily and what you can both learn from this to strengthen your marriage. Perhaps a counselor could help.

[rtb111 24]

I had a slight thing happen like this. We broke it off with the couple. There was alot of texting, and IMing that I found out about later. We had also discussed swinging with the couple, and my husband had an affair with her. They did it before we had set any ground rules. Then I said Ok lets go and sent her home on a sliver platter. She was suppose to call her husband to tell him she was going to the house. That was the second time and I did not know about the first time. She never called her husband. He knew about the first time, she blurted it out, but never called him about the second time.

 

You two need to work through it. It was a tough time for us, but we are on the same page now.

[rtb111 24]

Oops forgot! This couple was suppose to raise our kids if something happened to us. That is how "family" we were.

[N&G 207]

We were doing this with people we knew because we felt that there was less of a chance of "love" coming in to play, as with a stranger you don't know.

 

What would make you think that would be true?

 

 

I do believe hubby was very manipulated, but again, he is not blameless.

 

I have another thought. Your husband has been having an affair with your friend for a long time and wants to do it openly. Do you think all this happened because of one encounter? I am suspicious about the entire story.

[jjtrindc 142]

Clearly lines were crossed - emotional, physical, trust, etc. I would suggest couples counseling to really get to the root of what happened.

[SnowwwWhite 39]

You can do whatever you choose, so take my advice as such. But I'm a protective and possessive person and I believe in the primary relationship as the center of all activities.

 

Get out. Get out. Get out. (Of this swinging scenario)

 

If it was me, I'd go so far as to relocate and never have contact with these people again. This woman cannot be trusted, and as another poster mentioned you need to question how your husband could let this sort of thing happen.

 

The good news is that by confessing to you and exhibiting guilt and honesty, he does love you and wants to protect what you have. I'd be appalled that she felt he "betrayed" her... no doubt she was trying to build a little secret fortress of love between her and him. Sounds like she seduced and manipulated him... and once he had a chance to recover from the "spell" he came right back to you.

 

Don't risk it again! His admission is a cry for help of sorts... letting you know that he is weak and will succumb to a woman who uses her powers to persuade him. I don't agree with people who say to stay away from that couple for "awhile." DO NOT TRUST THIS WOMAN WITH ANYTHING. Here's my suggestions:

 

1) Move away. Use this as an impetus for you and your husband to better your life in a new city. It will be exciting and intensify your bond with him.

 

2) If you just cannot move, find a way to remove yourself from this couple's life... move across town, relocate your kids to another school, join a different church, don't go to the same clubs, restaurants, malls, etc. Stay away from this toxic woman. And certainly rescind their "godparent" status.

 

I know I'm being harsh, but nothing good can come from this relationship. She wanted your husband and seduced you guys into a situation where she could test her desirability against you.

 

I'm curious to know what your decision is.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Things hit the head so to speak 3 weeks later when it felt like something was going on that I was unaware of. There had been, in fact, 3 secret meetings of full blown sex, phone sex, hubby telling the woman about some of our fights, and her adding her two cents, putting me in a bad light. She pushed for "secret". Told my hubby to delete all emails, make sure phone calls couldn't be traced, etc. Broke the rules her hubby put on her (no cumming inside her, etc). Told my hubby she loved him during sex and begged him to say it to her. Lies, betrayal. Her telling him she was in love with him. And then both of them telling me nothing happened. Hubby, filled with grief and shame told me everything. SHE felt betrayed by him. That he broke her trust. There's so much more but it would take forever to put here and you'd get bored.

 

This is why many will not mix swinging and friendship, especially if the friendship came first. Think about it, if you are already friends then there is already a bond between you, that really makes it that much easier for things to develop in a direction you don't want to go. I do understand your point of view, feeling that since these are such close friends that you'd all want was best for each other and less likely to have something develop, but unfortunately it didn't work that way. The truth is that while with a stranger you don't know what may happen on their end, it's much easier to cut ties if things do start to take a turn towards a direction they shouldn't AND you don't lose friends in the process.

 

That said, you've already lost your friends. If you can even call HER a friend to begin with - which I don't think you could. As others said, this was not swinging, this was her convincing your husband to have an affair with her, to CHEAT on you. This isn't about swinging boundaries but about relationship and emotional boundaries. At this point the only real choice you have is to cut ties with them completely and go your seperate ways and focus on your relationship.

 

Our sex life since all this has been wonderful. Less inhibited, more creative. I think in a sick way, knowing how much she wanted him, makes me want him so much more. Does that make sense? We have talked about taking it slowly with STRANGERS in the future. It is something that I really want to be able to experience.

 

I think we all find things more attractive when we know that others want them. It's just human nature.

 

Be careful with the idea of taking it slow with a stranger or you may find yourself right back where you are. When you take things slow, strangers are no longer strangers anymore. While you are just trying to get to a point where you feel comfortable with someone they are working their way into your life and relationship.

 

 

Right now, I am trying to understand how a good, grounded man, could let it get so far before ending it. Any one had this happen? How do I handle all of this? I feel very betrayed and love my husband and want to be with him. I just want to find a way to get past the hurt that came out of it. Let me say, I am not upset about the sex. I am upset that "feelings" came into it. Hubby says it was fantasy, never reality. I do believe it was her reality. She wanted him and wasn't happy with just sex and told him that. Again, these ppl are like family and I have to see them all the time. How do I handle this? Thanks so much for any advice and for hanging in this long!!

 

To one extent your husband was manipulated. Again I say you don't need friends like that. But at the same time he allowed it to happen. He may have been caught up in the idea of some other woman wanting him so much. But, if he's going to be that easily swayed, it may not be a good idea to swing at all. At the very least you should probably focus on only swinging together. When you pair off and go out seperately as you chose to do, you open those doors for things to happen. When you play together, and stay together, nothing can go on that everyone isn't aware of. Sure, someone may send some emails or text messages, and yes he may still sneak out behind your back.... but if he allows that to happen, you really have to question what is going on with him and with your relationship. That's not swinging, it's cheating.

[nervous2tryagai 15]

Let me first say how much I appreciate all of your feedback. It's nice to finally have someone to talk to about this. It's been eating me up for a month.

 

I absolutely agree that counseling is a must. I want to try individual counseling on my own, to gain my "self worth" back so to speak. When I am able, I will have him join so we can work past it.

 

I do not believe this was an ongoing thing. After all this happened, I look and see all the warning signs that didn't make sense (on her end) until this blew up. Before it was even discussed (months ago), her mentioning my husband had a great sense of humor. Or how she felt him to be attractive. Things I hadn't paid much thought to.

 

When the situation came up, my husband was resistant. He is a reserved person by nature. After thought, he was a bit better about it. I was able to recover the first email that started all this, and see his reservations and then see her forcing the issue. My husband is typically a gentle man, not wanting to hurt a soul. I do believe she took advantage of that. This is a portion of the first email, several threads into it. It shows her secretive way and how she set him up to fail.

 

part she wrote:

I told T and A, if there is any part of these conversations they have with each other, if they want to keep them to themselves, then it's up to them. I won't ask about what they talk about at all. If it gets them excited to have a "secret" so to speak, then I want them to have it. So I won't share anything at all we talk about if you don't want me to.

To be honest, this is new to me as well. A and I have discussed certain things that may involve a third person (female of course)-

But then the talking came up about doing for lack of a better word "swap"- That thought got me very excited to think about. I think if you feel comfortable enough to talk, when you want to about it, even if it's just thru e-mail, it may help you a little. Might even help to get the "like a sister" part taken out. You can try to picture me, not as that, but someone getting you excited. Hmm...is this moving to fast this kind of talk?

 

I think if you are interested, and think it's a possibility, your thoughts will definitely change on how you think and react more to how you feel. And maybe gmail isn't the safest to keep some things to ourselves?

 

part my husband wrote:

The other side of this has to do with T and A though…meaning I need to be ok with them being together, which is something I hadn’t though of/given much thought to…but the last thing I want to do is break us up as a group. It’s a box that needs to be opened very carefully as a lot will change between all of us and once it is open there is no going back – it can’t be undone…

 

part she wrote:

Do you have a myspace? I think gmail is to easy to tap into. So make sure you delete, delete delete :0)

 

I know how you feel about them being together. I know I gave them both a green light to experiment. I want her to feel her excitement and him as well. I am comfortable knowing there will be no love involved. I know how he feels about us (me and him) and that's why I don't want a stranger involved. I trust them both (A and T) to not fall in love with each other.

 

Ok, we need something more private....

 

and then later on she said:

You do but you haven't logged into it since 2005. Dork :0)

Less likely to be checked is skype. Or I have a yahoo e-mail. Mypsace might not be a good idea, as thinking about it, I have to add you as a friend, and T will see you as my friend. Hmmmm...

 

 

End of email. It jumps a lot. I just pulled out the important parts that were relevant.

 

What that email showed me was the manipulation of keeping things secret, coming from her. She tried to tell me that my husband requested her to keep things secret and that she just played along. Never once was "secret" discussed. It was supposed to be "open, honest, purely sex," purely a way to spice up existing relationships, and get that excitement over feeling that new touch.

 

I do believe she fell in love with him. Several times, he told her it could "just be sex" and would she be ok with that. Her answer was "no, I don't think I can be" and then she would cry.

 

when it all hit the fan, she felt betrayed by him, felt he owed her to keep the "secrets" that they shared. The kicker, is that her husband was aware of most of what was going on. So why did she feel the need to keep it from me? To tell my husband she loved him, to tell him she wished that me and her husband didn't exist, so they could live "happily ever after"?

 

My husband was dead wrong. He knows it, I know it. I see the pain in his eyes, trying to figure out how to take it all back. I forgive him. I know he was wrong, but I also feel he played into the hands of a manipulative, selfish person, who would go after what she wanted at any cost.

 

I would love more feedback if you have time.

 

Thanks!!

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

My earlier post still stands. He was manipulated a bit and I would worry about how weak he may be that that could happen again. Hopefully, he's a fast learner and now that he's seen it happen once it won't happen again. Swinging solo (even with the same couple) is not something I would suggest you do again. Keep it together, as a couple.

 

I would suggest counseling, but I would suggest that you do it as a couple. I understand your reasoning for wanting to go alone at first, and you may need to go alone as well as go with him. But at this point your doubt of your self worth is greatly tied to him and his actions. You need to work through this together.

 

1) Move away. Use this as an impetus for you and your husband to better your life in a new city. It will be exciting and intensify your bond with him.

 

2) If you just cannot move, find a way to remove yourself from this couple's life... move across town, relocate your kids to another school, join a different church, don't go to the same clubs, restaurants, malls, etc. Stay away from this toxic woman.

 

While you do need to cut ties with this couple, no matter how good of friends you thought they were (SHE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND), you don't need to go so far as move, change your phone number, change your life or habits, etc. Doing so only adds drama to the drama. And running away is not the answer to anything. Let them both know that you no longer want any contact and make sure that they BOTH know why and leave it at that. If they try to call, don't answer. But if you run away every time something bad happens in this life (or lifestyle) you will find yourselves moving an awful lot.

 

There are many people in this LIFE that are going to do things that will hurt you. If you can't face those situations head on and then move on, you are going to have much bigger issues in life. I think most people at some point in their life have issues with someone big enough that they feel the need to remove that person from their life. Doing so can be done without any of the extreme measures in the above post. Typically, just letting them know that you are done is all you have to do. I lived in a VERY small town with the one person in my life that I will not have anything to do with ever and in the 7 years I lived there I passed him on the street twice and ran into him at a funeral once. I simply avoided him and if I saw him I did not speak and moved by quickly.

[lustylearning 705]

Oh, Julie's absolutely right. This woman is NOT your friend. Sounds like she's been waiting for the opportunity to snatch your husband, and you gave her the keys to the kingdom.

 

On a more practical note, what you describe does not sound like swinging to us. Jumping into separate play with people you know well sounds a lot more like dating or open marriage than partner swapping. What are your checks and balances? How about same room swap with a couple you don't know well, a couple that you have the ability to walk away from easily?

[nervous2tryagai 15]

We have decided that we want to explore options with strangers. It was new to us, and I think that's where a comfort level, knowing it was with people we "trusted" came into play.

 

I am considering going to a club/party/etc to try to meet some ppl. What is the etiquette on this? Is it expected that there will be swinging, or is it more of if it feels right, go for it, but if the situation doesn't fit, then it's ok to leave empty handed so to speak?

[sexcupid 809]

nervous2tryagai said:

We have decided that we want to explore options with strangers. It was new to us, and I think that's where a comfort level, knowing it was with people we "trusted" came into play.

 

Well on one hand yes, it was probably more comfortable with long term friends. But I agree with other posters that there were already some emotional bonds there for them to be good friends and the other female just couldn't separate the two (sex/emotion).

 

Now, out of curiosity, you state that you didn't go very far with the other husband...was your husband aware of the fact you didn't have sex with the guy? Even though he might not have wanted to know details, he should have been aware of how far activities did go. And if you were restraining yourself and hoping he wouldn't do more than you did...

 

Quote

I am considering going to a club/party/etc to try to meet some ppl. What is the etiquette on this? Is it expected that there will be swinging, or is it more of if it feels right, go for it, but if the situation doesn't fit, then it's ok to leave empty handed so to speak?

 

There is quite a bit of information on here about clubs. Most of them there is little expectation, you aren't 'required' to play if you don't want to. This forum has some good info: Swinging at Clubs/Parties/Resorts - The Swingers Board

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I am considering going to a club/party/etc to try to meet some ppl. What is the etiquette on this? Is it expected that there will be swinging, or is it more of if it feels right, go for it, but if the situation doesn't fit, then it's ok to leave empty handed so to speak?

 

You said that YOU are considering doing this. What about your husband? Is this something you are thinking about doing together? Or you on your own?

 

I would definately suggest that for a while at least that you stick together and swing together, to prevent further trouble. That's if you swing at all, which really isn't a good idea until you completely work through the issues you are both dealing with. Jumping right back in is likely to lead to more trouble that neither of you want.

[SnowwwWhite 39]

Admittedly moving away may be a bit extreme. I guess if it was me in that situation, I personally wouldn't want to ever have to see a woman again who seduced my husband. If I was forced to be in the same circles and see her at the same grocery store or whatever, I'd be horrified. It would be crippling to me. This was just my personal take on that situation. I don't have a husband or kids but it's how I imagined I'd feel.

 

Maybe the OP doesn't feel as strongly against this woman (as I imagine it) and it's all manageable without putting distance between you. But for me, I would have had a really hard time knowing I could see this person at any time. It would be paralyzing to me... and I would be better off knowing I never had to see her again and there would be no chance of accidental meetings.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Admittedly moving away may be a bit extreme. I guess if it was me in that situation, I personally wouldn't want to ever have to see a woman again who seduced my husband. If I was forced to be in the same circles and see her at the same grocery store or whatever, I'd be horrified. It would be crippling to me. This was just my personal take on that situation. I don't have a husband or kids but it's how I imagined I'd feel.

 

Maybe the OP doesn't feel as strongly against this woman (as I imagine it) and it's all manageable without putting distance between you. But for me, I would have had a really hard time knowing I could see this person at any time. It would be paralyzing to me... and I would be better off knowing I never had to see her again and there would be no chance of accidental meetings.

 

Not just this situation in this thread, but any situation. You can't run from your problems, you have to face them. If you run from issues every time something big comes up you'll be running (and moving) and awful lot in life. Life is full of risks, and swinging just adds more. You may need to ask yourself if swinging as a couple is something you could ever imagine yourself doing with someone that you care about? It's a very different thing than swinging as a single, or going to club with a guy that you don't really have feelings for just to have a partner there.

[SnowwwWhite 39]

Betrayal is just a really sensitive issue for me. I would take a bullet for the people I love. So when they betray it brings on a whole range of pain, mistrust, regret, and self-reprisal. It hurts immensely to realize someone you care for would sooner stab you in the back than have to cross the street. Seeing them over and over would bring the pain on again and again.

 

I just know for myself that it's not so much "running away from a problem," as much as it is cutting off the source of potential drama. Obviously it would be ludicrous to run away over something benign, or when it's possible to avoid the source of betrayal with minor adjustments.

[nervous2tryagai 15]

Trust me, I would love to run away from this person. More than anything. The fact is, my small kids are "best friends" with her kids. It would tear apart more than I am willing to lose. So many relationships would be shattered. These people are "family".

 

I am making the appt for couples counseling today. We have agreed to put any swinging on hold for now and get to the root of this.

 

I am struggling with the fact I really can't confront her, any more than I have. She has run to her husband for "protection" so to speak. (Don't forget, the things that were done, were done at my expense, not so much at his). He tells me to stop thinking about the details and the conversations, that it will just make me go crazy. My argument is that I need to UNDERSTAND how it happened, so conversations ARE important (ie, who initiated saying certain things). He blocks me at every turn, reminding me that this was the "box" that we agreed to open and now that said situation is over, to just move past it. My argument is this is not the "box" that I agreed to, and just because you give 2 ppl permission to sleep together, doesn't give them right to live a "life" with eachother of 180 phone calls in 2 weeks, saying the things they said, etc. This was an emotional affair, plain and simple. And I think the only way I can get control of that, is to see a counselor. I love my husband and do not want to leave and will not leave. I want to get to the root of how he (in my eyes) was manipulated to the point he pushed me out of his head.

[SnowwwWhite 39]

You seem to have your head on straight and are trying to deal with the most important part of this: your relationship with your husband. It's great to hear that you're in counseling with him. I wish you the best of luck.

 

It sounds to me that the other woman doesn't want to talk about it because she's ashamed of what she tried to do to you and how she betrayed your trust. She and her husband want you to move past it so they don't have to deal with it. Sorry, but there are consequences and you shouldn't be the only one paying them.

 

Respectfully, I still don't understand how you can see these people and have them in your life (and call them "family") knowing what happened between her and your husband. I know in this world it's politically correct to always have everything be "for the children," but as a former child myself I had best friends come and go in and out of my life due to one or both of our parents moving, divorcing, or whatever. Losing close friends is part of life and while it was sad it wasn't permanently traumatizing. Food for thought.

 

What WOULD have been traumatizing would be to find out my best friend's parent tried to break up my mom and dad's marriage... or to find out my best friend's mom (who I see so often and probably like), is actually a two-faced, dishonest, manipulative bitch who tried to split my parents up. Imagine if your children ever found that out... imagine how impressionable they are and how that would damage their trust in people... and how they would feel betrayed that you allowed them to continue bonding with this woman. At least just consider that perspective, regardless of what you do.

 

Consider for your children's sake that while childhood friendships are meaningful, a stable family and loving father is 100x more valuable... and impossible to replace once lost. You guys have a lot at stake and it's up to you and your husband to do the wisest thing... not to protect everyone's feelings right now, but to protect your family's FUTURE.

[theflamekasters 20]

That's an affair - not swinging.

 

Sounds like she knew what she wanted and the overture to swing was just a pretense to pursue a relationship with him. Now he's shown he can't be trusted to honor rules.

 

I think you need to less concerned about experiencing swinging and more concerned about understanding why he succumbed so easily and what you can both learn from this to strengthen your marriage. Perhaps a counselor could help.

 

I tottally agree, and this is why you should NEVER EVER play with friends you already had before you go into the lifestyle!!!!! This type of situation happens to every one we have met that does this!!! You all arent swingers at this point!!! sex cupid mentioned some info on clubs, follw her advice, look into clubs, and reosrts and what not. And get the hell away from this cpl sexually.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I am struggling with the fact I really can't confront her, any more than I have. She has run to her husband for "protection" so to speak. (Don't forget, the things that were done, were done at my expense, not so much at his). He tells me to stop thinking about the details and the conversations, that it will just make me go crazy. My argument is that I need to UNDERSTAND how it happened, so conversations ARE important (ie, who initiated saying certain things). He blocks me at every turn, reminding me that this was the "box" that we agreed to open and now that said situation is over, to just move past it. My argument is this is not the "box" that I agreed to, and just because you give 2 ppl permission to sleep together, doesn't give them right to live a "life" with eachother of 180 phone calls in 2 weeks, saying the things they said, etc. This was an emotional affair, plain and simple. And I think the only way I can get control of that, is to see a counselor. I love my husband and do not want to leave and will not leave. I want to get to the root of how he (in my eyes) was manipulated to the point he pushed me out of his head.

 

I think you NEED to confront her, especially if you intend to keep them in your lives at all. While I said that moving away was extreme (and it is), it would not be extreme to not want to have any contact with this woman/ family again. I don't know that I could ever trust her again near your husband, and I would not want her in my life. You need to sit her down and tell her exactly how you feel. You may even want to consider a group counseling session for all four of you with an understanding counselor. You can NOT continue on like nothing happened (which I think is what everyone else involved is expecting of you).

[J&D 15]

As I read through this thread I did not see anything about the other husbands response/feelings. Does he know what his wife was doing? It is possible that he did care.

 

Just a thought

[nervous2tryagai 15]

A lot more has come out that I now know. Things my husband said that really have me concerned. Obviously, swinging is off the table right now and I understand this is a swingers board, so if this isn't appropriate for me to put here, I understand. I just feel you guys might understand better. These are the things she said that he said, and upon confronting him, he did indeed say them but can't explain why. He tried to turn it around on me, blaming me for "digging", but I came back with that is my RIGHT...that if the two of them had kept their mouths shut and been on the up and up, I wouldn't have anything to dig about.

 

The situation all started the beginning of June, and continued during a trip with the kids that she and I took. We went for a week, and he and I fought a bit during that week. To the point that at the end while driving, I was telling him how emotionally tough it was for me that week (dealing with living in cramped quarters with her and 7 kids and I felt I was the "babysitter" of her 3 and my 4 at all times) and he said I was to blame for that. Basically, at that point, I couldn't take anymore stress from him, and I was saying I can't do this any more. We talked, he cried and told me he was sorry. He then went on to call her on her phone (we took separate cars) and brag how he even "pretended to cry". That hit me like a ton of bricks when I found that out yesterday. These are the things below that he said to her.

 

The day I called him to log into my credit card account because my ass was in the negative he said

 

"Please let me transfer the money so I can get you the hell out of there. I really miss you and want to see you"-- I said no, don't worry about it, that I will take care of it, he said he wanted to get me out of there and away from you so I would be in a better mood.

 

 

During the bitch fest on the way home from Vermont, he told me he wonders why you think your fat....because you sit and eat ice cream all day. He knows why he is fat, because he drinks beer.

 

He wanted to leave but knew he couldn't because the money it would cost him to you to pay for child support and alimony he knows he didn't make enough and you would rake him over the coals for it. (rake over the coals is not exact-but to that tune)

 

The Saturday we came down after Vermont...I heard over and over how much he wanted me and missed me so much. To the tune of showing me he was hard when you and Andy where outside. -Yes I did say it back, but if it's all coming out, then it's all coming out.

 

The delete, delete delete issue. Mutual. He didn't want you to see any of the things said. It was not just me, it was he who agreed to it as well, thinking you would be pissed over the talking. Not the amount of which, but what we where talking about.

 

The fight I had with Andy the day we came back home, he told me to make "nicey" with Andy so that he would want to come down, so Alex could be near me.

 

Told me he didn't cry with you on the phone. But admitted to me that he cried to me when he told me he loved me when we where talking on the pass. (when you where trying to beep in that day)

 

One of the extended phone conversations on the cell was a day you where supposed to be home, but hadn't returned from being out yet, he drove around the block for about half hour to stay on the phone with me. Also stopped at "our" Burger King parking lot so he could stay on the phone with me. Our being the word he used, not me.

 

The day Jury duty day happened, I can't count on both hands how many times I asked him, if he was sure he wanted to do it. He said yes. He was sure and wanted it. I am the one who made it a point to make sure this was what he wanted.

 

 

 

So, with this information, any insight into whether I am an idiot to stay with him, or whether I should try and work it out?

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

A lot of the little things that were said or that happened are hard to make sense of for us since we weren't there. It's like we are getting 30 second bits of a day and trying to understand the whole day based on it. There's no way to know really whether you should or shouldn't stay, that's something you will have to decide for yourself since you are the one who has the most information. At the very least you need to seek some counseling on your own and with him. Talk to him, ask him if he wants to be with you, does he really feel that he would leave if it were not for financial reasons? The only way you can really work this out and determine what is the best answer is to deal with him. I would not continue any discussions with HER, only with him. This is something the two of you need to work through without her involvement.