Couple admitted positive for gential warts - what now?

[des1re06 200]

So, a couple floored me and admitted they're positive for genital warts. My initial reaction was, "why the f*ck are you swinging!!?"

 

I, of course, started looking into what it means and how it's transmitted.

 

Genital warts are very contagious. You can get them during oral, vaginal, or anal sex with an infected partner. You can also get them by skin-to-skin contact during vaginal, anal, or (rarely) oral sex with someone who is infected. About two-thirds of people who have sexual contact with a partner with genital warts will develop warts, usually within 3 months of contact.

 

If you are infected but have no symptoms, you can still spread HPV to your sexual partner and/or develop complications from the virus.

 

So, would you advise your immediate play group to avoid them, since they're obviously not taking themselves out of the game? They're still having oral and kissing (I witnessed this), and who knows what else.

 

It's incredibly selfish of them to still be showing up at swing events, in my opinion.

 

What do we do?

 

Thanks,

 

Mrs. D

[funcpl4life 51]

Genital warts are very contagious. You can get them during oral, vaginal, or anal sex with an infected partner. You can also get them by skin-to-skin contact during vaginal, anal, or (rarely) oral sex with someone who is infected. About two-thirds of people who have sexual contact with a partner with genital warts will develop warts, usually within 3 months of contact.

 

The symptom rate sounds high to me. I've heard (but can't confirm off the top of my head) that there are many more silent infections than what you show here. IOW, far more than 1/3 of the people with HPV never develop symptoms. I've heard estimates as high as 50% sexually active people will have the virus during their lifetime.

 

If you are infected but have no symptoms, you can still spread HPV to your sexual partner and/or develop complications from the virus.

 

Yes, it is possible to spread the virus asymptomatically.

 

I may be a little slow, but besides warts and cervical cancer, what complications? (There's that thing with newborns and their lungs but isn't that hella-rare?)

 

So, would you advise your immediate play group to avoid them, since they're obviously not taking themselves out of the game? They're still having oral and kissing (I witnessed this), and who knows what else.

 

I would talk to them. The immune system usually clears the virus within two years. Get more information and share your concerns with them. See what's up. When you have all the information you think you need, sit on it for 24 hours. Talk to them again before you talk to your play group. Give them the maximum chances to do the right thing.

Mr FC4L

[Guest screaminggood]

Are you saying that they told you but not the people they're playing with? Is it possible that they told them as well, or do you know for a fact that they didn't?

[tribbles 490]

So, would you advise your immediate play group

 

I wouldn't tell anyone to avoid them. I would discuss HPV in general terms and find out what my play group knows.

 

BTDT and discovered no one cared. HPV is simply too widespread. (HSV-1 is also) "Oh, I had a wart, the doctor took care of it" was the most common response to questions about genital warts. The next most common comment was "I had a PAP test that wasn't normal and was treated. The doctor said it was from HPV but I'm good now. I just need lots of follow up tests."

 

And while the ladies were treated for HPV when the PAP was abnormal (and took a short break during treatment) their male partners still played on......cuz there is no test for HPV for guys.

 

Heck, with some studies showing oral cancers may be associated with HPV, one guy who has been treated for cancer, twice, and admits it may be from HPV, still plays. Could he pass it orally?

 

If someone really, really doesn't want to be exposed to anything, Don't Swing. The next safe way would be a very tight, closed, group to play with-and everyone is educated about all the different germies out there. If anyone in the group 'cheats' though.......

 

 

Most of the people we know are not educated enough about health to know when they are putting someone at risk for something. And the rest can be told of a wart and treatment and not know of any risk they are taking by playing with someone who knows they recently had a wart. (sigh).

 

We discovered this and decided to keep playing cuz the benefits are worth the risks to us. Same as those who do other risky hobbies.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

I'm sure this felt like a ton a bricks..... Wow!

 

Des, I'm gonna be honest. Here is what I would do and why.

 

I feel I want to treat people that I have had sex with, the same as I would want in return. For me, If I contracted any STD that I knew of, I would tell everyone that we have ever had sex with.

 

Our group is not that large, we can testify we know and remember every single person that we have ever had sex with.... in our lives.. None, have fallen off the face of the earth. Every one of them would tell you they know how I feel. It's who I am, and the ground I stand on. We all have to be somewhere. Its not about statics to me, the people I have had sex with are not just a number, they are and will always be more than that.

 

I don't expect everyone to agree how I feel. Like I say its just the ground I choose to stand on. If my idea of being open about contracting or coming in contact with those that have STD"S,, prevents some one from having sex with me. So be it. So far though, no one has turned me down because I would tell them I contracted something OR came in contact with someone who has knowingly.

 

Here is what I would do, but only because those I have had sex with or may possibly have sex with know how I feel beforehand. If you don't want people to know about STD's you might have or don't want others to know. I'm the last person you want to tell.

 

So for me having a friend in the group who told me this putting the weight on my shoulders. I say, "you tell our friends or I will..... And I will, it is up to you !

 

Des, I'm in no way saying this is what should be done. We just feel this works for us.

[lovinher 505]

Close friends I would tell in a heartbeat because I would want them to tell me. Otherwise I would mind my own business and avoid playing with them. That said I give them credit for telling you.

 

The thing is I may continue to swing if we had it but all play partners would be told way in advance in the hopes of finding somebody who already has it. I don't think I could play with a couple even if they didn't have a problem with it. I wouldn't want that on my conscience.

 

Think about it, it would really really suck if you had it and couldn't play anymore. Who knows, if they are lucky they may find somebody who already has it and then everybody is happy. I have seen profiles on SLS where they mentioned it up front. So I have no right to say somebody with HPV should not swing at all. But swing "events"-I agree with you completely.

[good times 991]

We have friends who have HPV, they are not in the lifestyle but their experience with it got me thinking. Which led me to do a lot of research on HPV. Unfortunately, their is either a lot of BS out there regarding HPV, or very few of the people who have researched it can agree. The reason I say that is you can read the conclusions of five different studies, and all five will have totally different results with very little agreement on anything.

 

There are a few general trends in what is believed about it though. The one that surprised me the most is that, depending on who you believe, anywhere from 40% to 90% of the population of the US is believed to have been exposed to HPV by the time they reach 40 years of age. Which implies that in all likelihood, if you believe this, either you or most of the people you have played with either has it or has been exposed to it. In which case, again if you believe the research that supports the claim, you have already built up an immunity to it, and are therefore not at risk or at least not at as high a risk.

 

So the bottom line for me would be, how long ago did they test positive and do they still test positive for HPV? If they are currently positive, then yes the temptation to tell my playmates about it is definitely there. Because frankly, I wouldn't want to play with someone who is currently positive for it, nor would I want to play with anyone who had played with them. Whether it would be right or wrong to tell others, I don't know, but then again, were I them, and found out I was positive for something like this, I wouldn't be swinging in the first place.

[J&D 15]

Had a co-worker who at a wedding reception for another co-worker announced to the group that she had herpes. She went on to say nothing to worry about as it is not active. Well the group cleared a space around her real fast as no one wanted to take a chance.

 

I guess it all depends on the person as to whether or not they think they are infectious or not.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I could be wrong, but from discussing this with a friend who has had genital warts, I was under the impression that once they have been treated (removed) it's done. So it becomes "we had HPV" not "we have it". If that is the case it would be important to know which it is. If someone told me that they had had a genital wart removed, it would not decrease the likelihood of my playing with them. If they told me they currently had a genital wart, then that would be a different story.

 

Also, from a previous thread that delved into HPV quite a bit there are quite a few strains of HPV the main two being the one that causes warts (an uncomfortable inconvienence at worst) and the one that causes genital cancer.... so again it would be important to know which one you are dealing with and if it has been/ can be treated.

 

The vaccine that is on the market treats the vaccinates against the ones that cause cancer but not against the ones that cause genital warts. So, while I know you can have the warts removed can you be treated after the fact for the type that can cause cancer?

 

To answer the original question. I would have to agree with Tribbles post above.

[des1re06 200]

She told me she currently had warts, not they were gone. She had planned to get them "burned" soon.

 

Yes, they were actively kissing and letting people perform oral on them at the event.

 

So, I felt uncomfortable, and we didn't play at all because of it.

 

I'm just asking how you'd feel at if this was told to you at a house party.

 

I know there are many different opinions in the scientific world about all sorts of STDs.

 

It's a close group who see each other regularly.

 

I was just a bit freaked. Yes, I'm thankful that she told me, but damn, why were they there in the first place. I have no idea if they told anyone else.

 

I'm not thinking we'll never get an STD, but are currently this minute clean and want to lower the risk if possible.

 

Mrs. D

[Chicup 42]

des1re06 said:

She told me she currently had warts, not they were gone. She had planned to get them "burned" soon.

 

Ummmm.......

 

I can't think of anything nice to say......

 

It is an amazing level of stupid mixed with honesty. You can't claim she just doesn't care about other people because she told you, yet at the same time, it is just so damn...stupid.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

des1re06 said:

She told me she currently had warts, not they were gone. She had planned to get them "burned" soon.

 

Yes, they were actively kissing and letting people perform oral on them at the event.

 

So, I felt uncomfortable, and we didn't play at all because of it.

 

Definitely puts a spin on the situation. I have to wonder why she told you guys if she wasn't telling others? I'm hoping that they were telling others that they played with during the course of the night.

[lustylearning 705]

My husband had this idea a couple of months back when we were pondering the idea, "what would we ever do if..." If the couple is showing up at events, notify the event runner/club owner that you are aware a couple has this std. You don't even have to name names. The club owner could then make a general announcement or send a mass email or what have you, advising everyone to be tested. Everyone's awareness is heightened; hopefully everyone is tested; and such an announcement would make the couple think twice before sharing cooties.

[newbieswinger 33]

I think its illegal to knowingly have a STD and not tell anyone. I would contact the local health dept and ask about it.

[VegasLee 1,486]

Ok, as someone that has been around this for over 30 years and a club host this is the type of nonsense that just pisses me off.

 

We are fucking adults here. You have something that can effect the health of other people stay the hell out of the clubs and lay off the playing with others until you have yourself cured. Take some personal responsibility for your own actions, be responsible and don't expose others to possible danger.

 

The only 100% safe way to never catch anything is to not play with others. Keep it in your pants but if you know you have something, or know someone has something, don't play with them.

 

As far at telling a club owner so they can MAKE A ANNOUNCEMENT TO GET TESTED. Get serious. They make that announcement and the club will be cleared out in a matter of seconds. You have a name, give it to them, let them tell the infected people to get out of their club. Let them do the responsible thing if the infected person won't do it their self.

 

We are not high school kids playing games here folks. We are grown adults, it is time that people act like it and take responsibility for what is going on in their life.

 

You know for a fact someone has something that could endanger the health of others, OUT THEM. If you can't do it, then tell the host. Get it taken care of. Don't act on rumors though, know what your talking about.

 

I am with Chicup on this one. This is just to damn stupid to even have to think about.

[des1re06 200]

I have to wonder why she told you guys if she wasn't telling others? I'm hoping that they were telling others that they played with during the course of the night.

 

I have no idea, but if they did tell you, would you go down on them? I don't think so. We've talked socially for about a year, but weren't that close. I was asked not to say anything.

 

I wonder if they don't understand how contagious it is. I think I'll have a sit down with them and let them know. I'll also inform the doctor in our group.

 

thanks for the advice.

 

Mrs. D

[tribbles 490]

HPV infection: Can men get it too - MayoClinic.com

 

Genital HPV spreads through sexual contact. Both men and women can pass it to their partners. Certain types of HPV cause genital warts, but the virus usually causes no signs or symptoms

 

If there are no signs or symptoms, how do we tell which men have it?

 

If the woman has warts, but the male, her steady partner/husband does not, maybe she does not think it's very likely she will pass it on. After all, he can keep playing cuz he has no signs, right?

[highlander 21]

newbieswinger said:

I think its illegal to knowingly have a STD and not tell anyone. I would contact the local health dept and ask about it.

 

Of course it isn't illegal to have sex with multiple people and never get any STD tests. Part of the problem is that many folks that have an STD simply don't know it.

[highlander 21]

VegasLee said:

 

As far at telling a club owner so they can MAKE A ANNOUNCEMENT TO GET TESTED. Get serious. They make that announcement and the club will be cleared out in a matter of seconds. You have a name, give it to them, let them tell the infected people to get out of their club.

 

I actually think there would be a market in clubs that required all members to get regular STD tests (these might be provided free of charge to single women wanted to attend and paid for out of admission fees)-and required folks to get some real education on STD's/STI's. IMHO being able to spot what say active herpes looks like is something every swinger should be educated on.

 

Anything short of regular testing provides minimal additional safety. Many folks that have an STD simply don't know it. I would be surprised if your own club has less incidence of HSV and HPV than the general population.

 

The thing is a bit of care can go a LONG ways here. Folks that have HSV that are on antivirals are much less contagious.

 

Anyhow, I don't think it would be that big a deal for a larger club to get someone trained to draw blood so tests could be done on site. Good testing is NOT cheap. However, one of the biggest problems with any swing club is attracting single women. I think that an environment that really protected the members health would attract women into swinging that might not otherwise participate--because that kind of environment really would be clearly safer than other social venues.

[VegasLee 1,486]

highlander,

 

What you propose is the "perfect world" solution to all problems regarding this matter.

 

Problem is, this is the real world. What you are proposing would never work at any club, ours or others.

 

The costs would be out of this world and the dozen people that would agree to it about of the 1000 I see each week would be the only members coming to the club.

 

This would have no effect on attracting single women and to be honest, we don't go out of our way to attract single women. They have proven over the years to be more of a problem then the single men or couples.

 

A couple of years ago we had a nurse from a private clinic come in and offer very inexpensive kits to guests that they could take home and turn in to the clinic or send in or even give them back to her. In two months NO ONE accepted the offer. Many people complained about her even being in the club and bringing up the subject there.

 

This is not something that people want to deal with in a club. Most won't even deal with it like an adult in private.

 

Adults need to act like adults, take the responsibility as an adult that wants to play in this world. They need to be tested on their own, if they are found to have anything at all that could effect the health of others they need to stay out of the clubs and the Lifestyle until they are cured and safe. Simple as that. Your right, many don't know they are infected because they don't take the effort to be responsible for their own well being and actions. They want everyone else to do it for them. If things get to far out of hand, it will become illegal to have sex with anyone other then your one spouse, the government will step in and protect the public from their own actions. That is the real world.

[highlander 21]

First off, there _have_ been substantial organizations that have operated STD testing programs for their members:

More University in the Bay Area

Kerista Commune

Rajneesh Community

 

now none of those operations were commercial businesses in the conventional sense(i.e. they were popularly labeled as sex cults). I've seen a few swinger clubs that have advertised STD testing required--but it is plausible they went under because of that. The Ace of Hearts had some specific events that required STD testing-and they were fairly popular from what heard. However, there _were_ complaints from those that weren't admitted.

 

The current, large scale example of a working STD testing program is that the AIM Medical foundation operates in the porn industry. Now, the results there have been better than a lot of folks predicted.

 

As far as costs, I _DO_ understand that in the present market, $600/year in testing per patron is a bit high-and that would limit the market. Now, one important thing to get here is the economy of scale. That $600/year involves some tests that are pretty pricey because they are new. Those costs will come down _IF_ there was a large block of customers. That puts us in a chicken/egg situation. Basically if things scaled up, I think that a quality testing program could be done for $80/year per patron.

 

Now the question to ask yourself:

What are the costs associated with STD infections(I'm not thinking just HIV here)? What are the costs to your industry overall?

 

Now, you may be right that you as an individual club owner can't really deal with it. I'm not entirely sure of that though. I've only seen really good testing services available the last few years(i.e. the stuff AIM Foundation sells I think has met that bar-the past stuff has been problematic).

 

Anyhow, what is happening in the real world is we have have a significant rise of STD infections nationwide for a while now. One of the latest developments is that HIV is increasingly becoming a heterosexual disease in the rural south. That is the type of thing that will in time have political effects.

 

When you look at this history here, when some problem like this gets big enough, voters demand action, and political plans that might not have been otherwise considered get considered. Adolph Hitler got elected on a platform that included closing large brothels in Germany? Why? Because syphilis was getting big enough it just couldn't be swept under the carpet-and Hitler had a plan for which there weren't that many other alternatives out there.

 

I was living in SF when modern day public health officials shut down sex clubs there. I think it was a BIG mistake-but I saw it done.

 

I think the choice folks in the US sex industry have is to get serious about self-regulation or actively supporting constructive legislative proposals that will actually work. There are REAL LIFE examples of this-what AIM Foundation is doing in the porn industry has _worked_(I'd love to see a trailer on EVERY porn film sold in the US explaining what the testing is that porn stars go through to act in those films I think that would be more helpful than just about anything else).

 

 

VegasLee said:

highlander,

 

What you propose is the "perfect world" solution to all problems regarding this matter.

 

Problem is, this is the real world. What you are proposing would never work at any club, ours or others.

 

The costs would be out of this world and the dozen people that would agree to it about of the 1000 I see each week would be the only members coming to the club.

...........................

This is not something that people want to deal with in a club. Most won't even deal with it like an adult in private.

 

Adults need to act like adults, take the responsibility as an adult that wants to play in this world. They need to be tested on their own, if they are found to have anything at all that could effect the health of others they need to stay out of the clubs and the Lifestyle until they are cured and safe. Simple as that. Your right, many don't know they are infected because they don't take the effort to be responsible for their own well being and actions. They want everyone else to do it for them. If things get to far out of hand, it will become illegal to have sex with anyone other then your one spouse, the government will step in and protect the public from their own actions. That is the real world.

[VegasLee 1,486]

The AIM FOUNDATION has done a great job in the porn Industry, an Industry I have been involved in since 1979. I have seen Sharon stand with many a politician and shove AIM down their throat until the State of California passed laws requiring testing since about half the porn is in their state or more. Before it was law, less then 10% of the industry would agree to testing. Being in the Porn industry is a profession, swinging to most is a hobby. People treat it much differently and the mindset is much different.

 

We see 800 to 1000 people a week at the club, 40% tourists from all over the world. In 26 years we have had two people state they have contracted something while at the parties there. I have had others come tell me that people that are at our parties have something, I go ask the person and most of them have been honest with me if they do. We ask them to leave until they are no longer endangering other peoples health. I can promise you if I post a notice on our site or door that states you will be tested before being permitted to the parties I will be locking the second oldest party in the country within a week. I am not new to this, I am not relaying on what I am hearing or reading on the Internet. I am going by 30 years of experience both in the Porn Business and dealing with Swingers. With the number of people that come into our parties each week there would be no possible way of testing them. The regulars maybe, the 300 to 400 tourists? No way.

 

I am not arguing with you that the idea is a good one in theory, but in reality it just won't happen. When the government steps in and makes it mandatory as was done in the Porn Industry in California, clubs will be closing before the ink is dry on the law.

 

Swingers are not going to permit "others" to demand tests of them or have access to those tests.

 

The problem in this country today is that everyone wants someone else to cover their ass. People today will not be personally responsible for their own actions and safety. This really all comes down to EVERYONE being personally responsible for their self and the safety of those they interact with.

 

I don't want the government to tell me to be responsible, I can do that myself. If the government goes that far they are going to stop all swingers parties anyway. They have their own way of fixing things, testing won't be there way of doing it.

[good times 991]

Since Highlander and I have had this discussion here on the board before, all I need to say here is, VegasLee is absolutely right on. I agree and couldn't say it any better.

[tribbles 490]

Can I ask again how we test the males for HPV?

[highlander 21]

Can I ask again how we test the males for HPV?

 

There is a PCR DNA test for HPV that is is used on men "off label" use-and it isn't wildly accurate(I think it is supposed to spot 85% or so of the HPV cases out there. That test is also a bit pricey because I think it is fairly new.

 

The other thing happening in that area is use of Gardasil for men(AIM is one organization doing that). Gardasil is not FDA approved for use in men--but some docs will use FDA approved medications for purposes other than what they are approved for.

 

The HPV situation strikes as kind of strange. Basically the disease is very widespread, but only one gender can get decent testing for it. The treatment options also seem tricky. It has only been with the advent of better testing that folks are talking about clearing of the disease. That _might_ open the way to better treatment.

 

Now, the thing is that 80 years ago, cancer was unequivocally regarded as a non-infectious disease. I remember a teacher talking 35 years ago how that was starting to come into question-and now we have actually therapies based on that notion.