Open Relationship vs. Swinging

[tcphoenix 15]

Hi, this is my first post on this forum. Our basic story is that my wife (36) and I (29) have had a VERY vanilla sexual life thus far (married almost 9 years). Recently though we both got very honest with each other regarding what we wanted sexually from our relationship. We both discussed threesomes, she's open to that. In addition, I told her that I would like to try swinging. She was quite shocked but not immediately turned off; conflicted is more the word. We've talked about it extensively for the last couple of days and she feels like after sleeping with only me for the last nine years, she is decidedly nervous and unsure about sleeping with others as a couple.

 

She did suggest we try an open relationship, she said she was ok with that because we wouldn't have to "perform" in front of each other and she felt it would be easier to lead into threesomes and other things if we got used to having sex with other people before we tried together. Initially I was a bit leary but I agreed; she said I could have a sexual encounter first and we'd go from there. One thing I'm finding though is that there's no one out there on places like AFF that's even remotely interested. I've read on here that this is actually quite common.

 

I'm not really sure exactly what I'm asking here but I'd appreciate any opinions ya'll might want to share. My wife is gorgeous (she doesn't think so) and I KNOW she could get as many sexual partners as she wanted. I just think I'm going to strike out and either not start this process at all or agree to let her go first and then never get "my turn" so to speak. Does that make sense? She's open to considering just about anything but swinging together makes her very nervous because it's been so long since we've had sex with anyone but the two of us. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! What helped ease your fears as you tried this out?

 

T

[two4youinswva 3,068]

First of all, welcome to the forum.

 

Trying to give your post a little bump, since it has fallen off the front page of the New Posts tab.

 

Your assumption that she will find it easier to hook up is most likely correct.

 

Have you two considered separate room swinging? Some couples prefer this for a variety of reasons.

It would take away the pressure to perform, and still allow you two to discover the world of recreational sex together.

 

Continue discussing your concerns with each other. That communication may shed more light on each of your concerns and desires.

[mixtupcpl 169]

I feel replying to these is becoming my specialty!!!

 

My wife and I are 10 years ahead of you guys. We're in our upper 30's and had an open marriage for 10 years.

 

My wife is exactly the same as yours in that she feels very strange with the idea of "performing" in front of each other and is more comfortable alone. She's also similar in that she's gorgeous but doesnt realize it.

 

So we closed the marriage shortly before joining this site... Our experience was that an open marriage is VERY easy. Easier than swinging I think. As you'd imagine, for the lady, finding fuck buddies is as easy as breathing. For the guy, its not so easy, but one night stands arent really as hard as you might think (esp if you travel)

 

The downsides are endless. We had way too much drama over the years and singles that didnt "get it" even though they said they did. Some were cheating, most got clingy, all ended badly. Emotional attachments tend to to form also. You can be insulated from the power of these (we were) but "vanilla" singles never are.

 

So that comes back to this lifestyle. Swinging (which we havent done yet) is interesting, but its very difficult. We've been casually perusing and are realizing that 4 way attraction is pretty unlikely for us, I think. I have lots of theories on why this is, but to net it out, we would need a couple with a really good looking guy and a kind of average wife. LOL. (Im not picky at all, she is pure physical attraction in a fuck buddy) Not a likely scenario. The opposite is very likely though!

 

For threesomes, neither one of us are all that excited about MFM and are already EXTREMELY gunshy with single males. She is interested in FMF or maybe FFM, but good luck with that one! Swinging single females are called unicorns for a reason!

 

so that may confuse you more, but welcome to the club! feel free to PM if you want more detail on what we've been through over the years. And WELCOME! this forum is great.

 

To leave you with some advice...

 

Take a closer look at why you want this. Some things really are better left as fantasy. Also, you will ALWAYS be behind in the count (I sure as hell am... LOL) Make sure thats something that can plug into your fantasy and not cause trouble. I'm not the kind of guy that is massively turned on by my wife with another guy (although it IS a turn on, its not something I fixate on), but I'm also not bothered by her being way ahead. The other thing is, I know what we have together and I know it cant be replaced. As a result of that, everything we do starts and stops on a dime at the request of either of us. Before doing ANY of this that kind of foundation is mandatory.

 

If you feel you really are ready to experiment, I would say avoid the open marriage for now and attend some meet and greets to test the waters on swinging. If you find that you're easily attracting other couples that you find attractive, then you will, I think, ultimately find this lifestyle more rewarding. You can always find a more experienced couple and say that you want to start out full swap separate room (thats what we would do) Many experienced couples would be cool with that.

[tcphoenix 15]

Hmmm.... mind if I ask why hot guy and average wife? I'm kind of curious about that. lol

 

Thanks for replying and the welcome BTW, I'll probably PM you at some point if you don't mind.

[mixtupcpl 169]

Thats an easy question.... Im very open in what I find generally attractive in a woman. I mean I have some very strong preferences, but like most guys, pretty much any decently HWP woman is great!

 

For my wife, when it comes to just sex, personality and charisma take a way back seat to physical attraction. After all, she's not marrying the guy. So she's pretty picky. Most couples we find have a male half where she says "bleh". If the male half is an "ooooo", then the female half is WAY out of my league There you go... Total honesty

[MRSfun 152]

Welcome to the Swingers Board

 

This is going to take some time for either of you to really get an understanding of what the possibilities are. I wouldn't think just a few days of extensive talking, would work for many. I hope you and your wife can sit and talk about many things over a few weeks at least, and be willing to change at anytime. Even if you decide playing separate there is allot to consider.

 

Bring her to this board and listen to some of the advice from everyone. It would be nice to hear some of her views.

 

Glad you found us here on the board

[tcphoenix 15]

Ah.... ok, that makes sense. lol thanks for the honestly!

[tcphoenix 15]

Welcome to the Swingers Board

 

This is going to take some time for either of you to really get an understanding of what the possibilities are. I wouldn't think just a few days of extensive talking, would work for many. I hope you and your wife can sit and talk about many things over a few weeks at least, and be willing to change at anytime. Even if you decide playing separate there is allot to consider.

 

Bring her to this board and listen to some of the advice from everyone. It would be nice to hear some of her views.

 

Glad you found us here on the board

 

Thanks, glad I found this board too! I know that if we decide to go down this road it's not going to be a quick and easy thing. We're destined for many a conversation I think because there's an understandable difference between fantasy and reality. That said, she knows I'm on here; hopefully she's reading and is willing to make a post at some point.

[slevin 1,374]

For a guy in your position I think it will be far easier for you to pickup non-swinging-lifestyle women than to find a woman on a site like AFF or SLS that doesn't just assume you're a cheating husband. It's pretty amazing how often a woman out at a bar or at a coffee shop just won't care that you're married. Scary how often actually. If you're not the most adept guy at approaching women and picking them up there is plenty of information out there that can help you learn how to do that. Despite what most guys think, it is something that can be learned.

[tcphoenix 15]

For a guy in your position I think it will be far easier for you to pickup non-swinging-lifestyle women than to find a woman on a site like AFF or SLS that doesn't just assume you're a cheating husband. It's pretty amazing how often a woman out at a bar or at a coffee shop just won't care that you're married. Scary how often actually. If you're not the most adept guy at approaching women and picking them up there is plenty of information out there that can help you learn how to do that. Despite what most guys think, it is something that can be learned.

 

I "could" do that although picking up women has never been a specialty of mine, the missus can definitely vouch for that! lol... The problem though is that I have a profession that would not take kindly to that type of activity. I could potentially end up in a world of trouble if caught hunting for ladies in local bars, etc. Hope that makes sense...

[slevin 1,374]

I could potentially end up in a world of trouble if caught hunting for ladies in local bars, etc. Hope that makes sense...

 

No, that makes no sense to me at all.

[ViSexual 1,008]

slevin,

 

He's, obviously, in the Marines and the US military is pretty right wing.

 

Hey, btw, I went through my recon training at Geiger a very long time ago..., Ohhyaaa!

 

May I make a suggestion? I'd think you two could find another, inexperienced, couple to talk about this with. That just might make your wife more comfortable. There are a lot of couples, thinking, but not doing.

 

And when it got right down to some 'doing' it would be possible to simply double date..., separately, if that would make your wife more comfortable. And, of course, the other couple agreed.

 

Good luck, and thanks for your service!

[slevin 1,374]

Having not been in the military I still don't get it. The military would actually care that a married Marine picked up a single girl while out during his daily life away from the military?

[JustMrJ 178]

My wife and I discussed, talked, communicated quite a lot for over two years before we actually began what is commonly known as 'swinging'. We only wanted to see each other while our partner was with someone for the first time to make sure we would be okay with the situation. Our first time was at a house party.

 

Our first 'play date' was at a single male's home with one of his regular playmates. This was our first time for separate room sex completely. It was a bit easier to focus on the task at hand than at a house party for one thing, for another we were close enough we could hear the other couple if we wanted to, so it was good to hear my wife enjoying herself while I was doing the same just one room away.

 

Since then we have been to quite a few house parties and on a few 'play dates'.

 

I'm not quite sure if your definition of an open marriage is how I would define it... Our marriage is open, but we also KNOW who each other plays with. I don't think I would feel comfortable with my wife going off by herself on a 'play date' unless I knew the players involved and I KNOW I would feel really weird doing that with her at work or staying at home. Feels too much like cheating to me... even if we know the players. She has already expressed to me that she would feel 'weird' if I wasn't within earshot during play too.

 

Either way you choose, make sure your communication with each other is open, honest and complete... no holding back.

 

I mean, you wouldn't want to give a pilot only partial coordinates for an air strike near your position would you?

 

Good luck... communicate and have fun, no matter your path in life!

[JTcamp05 9]

Why dont you to try with swinging couples, but state clearly that you prefer seperate rooms. Then of course there is no pressure of "watching", yet still the comfort of knowing the other 1/2 is ok.

 

Even if she's not ready yet, everyone has boundries and if they are stated upfront, I think most couples will understand and take the time with a new couple to make them comfortable.

 

Just an idea...

[tcphoenix 15]

visexual - not a Marine... Coast Guard Thank you for your service as well!

 

slevin - yeah, unfortunately they would care and then some.

 

Everyone else - Thanks for the insight and great suggestions. I'll talk them over with the missus and let ya'll know how it goes. What we do or if we even do anything depends completely on what she wants and if she's comfortable.

[BiloxiCouple 695]

Having not been in the military I still don't get it. The military would actually care that a married Marine picked up a single girl while out during his daily life away from the military?

 

 

Yep. It's called adultery and the UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice) covers this particular offense. If it's an officer or NCO it could be "conduct unbecoming", another punishable offense. The military holds you to a "higher" standard. And we could quote/debate other reasons they hold you to this standard all day.

 

Just like you can't quit the military any time you want, given the right circumstances, quitting your job at the wrong time can be punishable by death.

 

It's been almost 20 years since I had to work with the UCMJ, MCM (Manual for Courts-Martial) and my favorite:hahaha: the Article 15 (Captain's Mast for the Navy) (non-judicial punishment). So if the terms have changed or I got it wrong here....I don't care anymore:lol:

[mixtupcpl 169]

interesting stuff on the military. crazy if you ask me because I've heard of some pretty wild shit going on on bases between singles. lol. just the few that have been "caught" have kind of said it all.

 

I've got to imagine the brass is well aware that shit like this goes on.

 

enlisted indulgence in foreign prostitutes is also pretty legendary .

 

but I guess as a culture we are nothing if not hypocritical.

 

not that I condone cheating, it just strikes me as ridiculous that this is something military leadership officially cares about.

[iapr 24]

I feel replying to these is becoming my specialty!!!

 

My wife and I are 10 years ahead of you guys. We're in our upper 30's and had an open marriage for 10 years.

 

My wife is exactly the same as yours in that she feels very strange with the idea of "performing" in front of each other and is more comfortable alone. She's also similar in that she's gorgeous but doesnt realize it.

 

So we closed the marriage shortly before joining this site... Our experience was that an open marriage is VERY easy. Easier than swinging I think. As you'd imagine, for the lady, finding fuck buddies is as easy as breathing. For the guy, its not so easy, but one night stands arent really as hard as you might think (esp if you travel)

 

The downsides are endless. We had way too much drama over the years and singles that didnt "get it" even though they said they did. Some were cheating, most got clingy, all ended badly. Emotional attachments tend to to form also. You can be insulated from the power of these (we were) but "vanilla" singles never are.

 

So that comes back to this lifestyle. Swinging (which we havent done yet) is interesting, but its very difficult. We've been casually perusing and are realizing that 4 way attraction is pretty unlikely for us, I think. I have lots of theories on why this is, but to net it out, we would need a couple with a really good looking guy and a kind of average wife. LOL. (Im not picky at all, she is pure physical attraction in a fuck buddy) Not a likely scenario. The opposite is very likely though!

 

For threesomes, neither one of us are all that excited about MFM and are already EXTREMELY gunshy with single males. She is interested in FMF or maybe FFM, but good luck with that one! Swinging single females are called unicorns for a reason!

 

so that may confuse you more, but welcome to the club! feel free to PM if you want more detail on what we've been through over the years. And WELCOME! this forum is great.

 

To leave you with some advice...

 

Take a closer look at why you want this. Some things really are better left as fantasy. Also, you will ALWAYS be behind in the count (I sure as hell am... LOL) Make sure thats something that can plug into your fantasy and not cause trouble. I'm not the kind of guy that is massively turned on by my wife with another guy (although it IS a turn on, its not something I fixate on), but I'm also not bothered by her being way ahead. The other thing is, I know what we have together and I know it cant be replaced. As a result of that, everything we do starts and stops on a dime at the request of either of us. Before doing ANY of this that kind of foundation is mandatory.

 

If you feel you really are ready to experiment, I would say avoid the open marriage for now and attend some meet and greets to test the waters on swinging. If you find that you're easily attracting other couples that you find attractive, then you will, I think, ultimately find this lifestyle more rewarding. You can always find a more experienced couple and say that you want to start out full swap separate room (thats what we would do) Many experienced couples would be cool with that.

 

This is an awesome post and I nominate Mixtupcple as a Mod for any open marriage forums that may develop down the road.

 

Now as far as the topic at hand, we do NOT have an open marriage nor is that option even open for consideration so take whatever I have to say with that disclaimer in mind. However, I do want to back up mixtupcpl's suggestion that you give swinging some greater consideration vs pursueing any kind of open marriage at this point.

 

The reason I say that is because you stated that you have had a very traditional marriage up to this point and the reason's for not pursuing swinging are based on conjecture and general "squeemishness" rather than any actualized problems with swinging. In other words you really do not know how you will react to certain situations and you do not know what it is that you really want at this point.

 

The fact that you have had a long term traditional marriage indicates that swinging together as a couple may be more productive and healthy for you rather than each of you pursuing your own interests on your own.

 

I'm making my own assumptions here but my bet is that the people that actually do have open marriages that are healthy and functional have probably always had fairly open and liberal beliefs about marriages and relationships and that most of their relationships have always been fairly open all along. I doubt if many people are able to go from almost a decade of traditional marriage to one day having an open marriage and making it work.

 

At this point in time I think you would be better off to work as a team and watch each others back go out and meet people together as a couple and explore your interests and limits together as a couple rather than go out as individuals.

 

Mixtupcpl did a good job of describing the pitfalls of open marraiges so I will defer to them for the gory details but I will advocate towards you giving swinging some more thought.

 

Neither of you know that you will have performance issues if you are together because you haven't been there yet. For all you know it may turn you on.

 

Whenever newbie couples talk about their nervousness towards being with other people I always counter with this. Swinging is not about having "sex with other people," swinging is about taking your sexual dynamic as a couple to a different level by being open to the idea of having other people add more excitment and pleasure into your lovemaking as a couple.

 

An open marriage IS about having sex with other people. In other words even though the sex may still be only recreational, in an open marriage each individual is still out there on their own cultivating a separate relationship and having intimate contact with someone other than their spouse without their spouse really being involved to any appreciable degree.

 

To me that is far more threatening to a marriage than swinging.

[iapr 24]

 

I'm not really sure exactly what I'm asking here but I'd appreciate any opinions ya'll might want to share. My wife is gorgeous (she doesn't think so) and I KNOW she could get as many sexual partners as she wanted. I just think I'm going to strike out and either not start this process at all or agree to let her go first and then never get "my turn" so to speak. Does that make sense?

T

 

That more than makes sense and is in fact a cold hard reality. Even if she was downright ugly and you were a drop dead gorgeous and filthy rich rock star she would still have a million more opportunities than you.

 

Women are just not wired for recreational sex with married men just because the man wants some outside poontang. In order for you to get any kind of appreciable amount of contact outside your marriage you would essentially have to foster an ongoing relationship with some gal. There are a lot of desparate and lonely women out there but is that what you really want to be doing with your time and energies.

[tcphoenix 15]

iapr,

 

Part of what draws me to swinging is that there's understanding on everyone's side exactly what you're there for. You're interacting with people of like mind, I would think. I would have no problem becoming friends (with benefits) with another couple or going to a club and doing whatever comes to mind. The thought of capitalizing on the lonlieness of other women though, to even up or even get my side of an open relationship going.... that's not my thing. I think I respect women too much for that.

 

T

[iapr 24]

She did suggest we try an open relationship, she said she was ok with that because we wouldn't have to "perform" in front of each other and she felt it would be easier to lead into threesomes and other things if we got used to having sex with other people before we tried together. Initially I was a bit leary but I agreed;

 

T

 

I think your leeryness is a good thing and appropriately placed. With all do respect to your wife, I think her thinking and rationale are backwards.

 

A lot of people spend their lives thinking that the last thing in the world they want to see is their partner in bed with another. however many find that in a context of a consensual and mutually comfortable swinging situation they find that they are actually quite turned on by seeing their spouse with someone else.

 

In all honesty there are also people that have been there/done that and do prefer to play separately but my point is you haven't done either so you don't know one way or another. In your situation I would default towards sticking together and doing things together as couple and as a team and as you become more experienced and knowledgable about yourselves and each other you can branch out and dip your toes into the open relationship waters as time goes on if you want to at that time.

 

I am kind of hung up on this topic because to me the key word in "open relationship" is RELATIONSHIP. Ask yourself this question, do you want your relationship to be with each other within the confines of your marriage and pursue extra fun and excitement together as a couple and a functional unit?..ie = swinging

 

Or do you want to take time and energy away from your marriage and put into each of you pursuing other relationships with other people ?....ie = open relationship.

[iapr 24]

iapr,

 

Part of what draws me to swinging is that there's understanding on everyone's side exactly what you're there for. You're interacting with people of like mind, I would think. I would have no problem becoming friends (with benefits) with another couple or going to a club and doing whatever comes to mind. The thought of capitalizing on the lonlieness of other women though, to even up or even get my side of an open relationship going.... that's not my thing. I think I respect women too much for that.

 

T

 

And in reading your posts that was my assumption and my point.

[tcphoenix 15]

Ask yourself this question, do you want your relationship to be with each other within the confines of your marriage and pursue extra fun and excitement together as a couple and a functional unit?..ie = swinging

 

Or do you want to take time and energy away from your marriage and put into each of you pursuing other relationships with other people ?....ie = open relationship.

 

I think that hit a real cord with me, thanks. That definitely puts things into perspective a bit more. For her it could be about the sex because there are plenty of guys out there to play with. For me, I'd have to take time away from my marriage and my family to develop a relationship with someone else. Hmmm... lots to think about.

 

T

[iapr 24]

I think that hit a real cord with me, thanks. That definitely puts things into perspective a bit more. For her it could be about the sex because there are plenty of guys out there to play with. For me, I'd have to take time away from my marriage and my family to develop a relationship with someone else. Hmmm... lots to think about.

 

T

 

We've gone through this ourselves but in a different context. My wife is hot and she could bed anyone with just the snap of her fingers and she often thought it would be the same for me but it's not. She never realized the work that has to go into it. Yes I could schmooze and charm some gal into bed but it would take time and energy and then I would be left with the fallout afterwards.

 

Women are used to men wanting sex and being able to walk away without strings but they don't get that it rarely actually happens that way and that other women just aren't gonna go for it.

 

In swinging women often are open to just recreational sex because they already have a functional marriage and home and family life and the sex is just some fun icing on the cake. To a single gal or a cheating wife in an unhappy marriage, no matter what they tell you, it is a whole different reality.

 

You are starting to see the light my friend. You are a candidate for swinging, not open marriage.

[slevin 1,374]

slevin - yeah, unfortunately they would care and then some.

 

I like where the thread is going with iapr, some great discussions there.

 

I still am baffled by the whole issue of being in the military/coast guard. I get that there are rules and laws within there about adultery etc., but if you are online looking for women to have sex with or are out at Starbucks meeting someone the end result is still the same. You are out there, you're meeting people and having sex with them. I don't see the additional risk to talking to a girl at a coffee shop, especially since in almost every case of meeting someone from a place like AFF you aren't just going to have her over to a hotel and fuck. You're going to meet her somewhere for a drink first so you both get comfortable with the situation.

 

When I say go out and meet women at a bar or at a coffee shop, I'm not saying to start making out with her in public. In fact, that is probably a bad thing (even for a single guy). If the coast guard got their nose out of joint because someone saw you talking and having a great conversation with someone other than your wife....well then perhaps your life would be improved by finding a new career

 

Hope I don't derail the good conversation that is going on. Just wanted to point out that no matter which way you go about it there is risk to your job, and realistically I don't see any additional risk to meeting a girl off-line.

[mixtupcpl 169]

Definitely a good thread. Thanks iapr for great insight.

 

Slevin, I agree with what you're saying, but I'd imagine that for some, just the threat of how official that policy is would put them off completely. Thats another thing for TC to consider. There is more trust inherent in a swinging situation.

 

TC, to expand a bit on what iapr said, the reality of an open marriage is a little bit more complex. Also, it depends on your starting point.

 

You and your wife should clearly avoid it for the reasons iapr detailed. For my wife and I, the origins of the arrangement were very different, not really very good, and came at a time when we were both immature, and yet had a TON of history together (we were each others firsts ages ago in high school)

 

I wouldnt say that what we've done ever took time away from "us" in the sense you might think. BUT, this is because we are both VERY good at compartmentalizing emotionally. Our relationship was never threatened, but I'd be a liar if I said that my wife didnt love one of her longer term partners on a certain level. Forming this kind of attachment is VERY likely with an open marriage. I still think that this partner never really "got" us and, now that we've closed it up cold turkey, I think even the basic friendship there is broken.

 

For me, I got close to this kind of situation (and keep in mind, both her situation and mine started at work - ANOTHER bad thing), but luckily the girl got a new job so, after about a year, we both decided that was a very good breaking point. She was never REALLY comfortable with my situation and, I suspect, had things gone on longer, she'd have been expecting more.

 

There were, of course, encounters that werent "sticky". Mrs Mix and I have both done some crazy shit. But for me, the quick encounters were one night stands and really were meaningless in a way that surprised me. That wasnt what I thought it would be. For Mrs. Mix, the quick encounters were pure experimentation and she is MUCH better at separating the physical from the emotional than I am (weird role reversal there).

 

When we both look back, we both realize that we wasted a lot of time. Had we pursued this together, we'd have better memories, to be honest. Of course at the time we had no clue what the hell we are doing and our lives have always been a bit tumultuous in a lot of different ways. Also, the very idea of "swingers" was ridiculous to us.

 

I have friends with continuing, functional, open marriages (and, oddly enough, they dont know about ours). Basically people like Mrs. Mix and I who just keep it going, so it CAN work. If your relationship cant be threatened, it cant be threatened. If it can, any extracurricular activity can possibly get you in trouble. I just think, in retrospect, that the drama isnt worth it and, good swinging, is a LOT more rewarding as a couple.

 

The thing we both still struggle with, though, is that it is so temptingly easy to be "open". But on the other hand, at this point, neither of us really care if there is anything on the side anyway. We've decided to just play it by ear over the next few years and see if anything manages to work out. If it does, great, but if it doesnt, thats great too. We may do a quick hookup here and there if the opportunity arises and is tempting enough, but definitely no more long term connections separately. If we found a couple, though, we'd be very interested in forming a long term friendship (another thing which makes swinging seem a lot more appealing)

[tcphoenix 15]

Thanks for the insight mix, I appreciate your thoughts!

 

On a side note, I'm amazed that my wife is even willing to talk to me about this sort of thing and willing to consider some of what I'm interested in. Even if we decide on staying vanilla, I'm a very very lucky man and I REALLY love my wife.

 

T

[mixtupcpl 169]

Thanks for the insight mix, I appreciate your thoughts!

 

On a side note, I'm amazed that my wife is even willing to talk to me about this sort of thing and willing to consider some of what I'm interested in. Even if we decide on staying vanilla, I'm a very very lucky man and I REALLY love my wife.

 

T

 

This is a very important point. Be happy in knowing that this already puts you well ahead of, I'd say, 90% of the "marriages" out there. You need a very strong and real foundation to have this kind of openness and honesty, so you are right in counting yourself lucky.

 

That's another great thing about this board. It's nice to chat with other people who have found the same thing. Mrs. Mix and I both think its so strange that we have more in common with these anonymous folks on the board, and that they "get" us more, than vanilla friends who have known us for 20 years.

[slevin 1,374]

On a side note, I'm amazed that my wife is even willing to talk to me about this sort of thing and willing to consider some of what I'm interested in. Even if we decide on staying vanilla, I'm a very very lucky man and I REALLY love my wife.

 

T

 

That is awesome I know that talking about this before we did it for the first time and the continuing conversation and openness that we've had since we've started is amazing. We were already close with good communication, but it's amazing how much better it has gotten between us. Seems like you guys are on the same path (of communication), hope you both keep enjoying the journey!

[tcphoenix 15]

Slevin, I agree with what you're saying, but I'd imagine that for some, just the threat of how official that policy is would put them off completely. Thats another thing for TC to consider. There is more trust inherent in a swinging situation.

 

The reality is that people cheat on their spouses all the time in the military and rarely if ever is there anything punitive done to them. That said, there's a comfort level for me that I feel like I need. Drama is a huge concern of mine; I would rather do with less drama if at all possible if you catch my drift. I've seen jealous partners calling not only the military member's spouse but their command when things went south in the extra-marital relationship. Pretty hard to insulate yourself against something like that I would think.

 

On a different note, one of the things the missus thinks will be an issue is jealousy. Not from her end; she assures me she's not a jealous person and would have no problems with me being with another woman. She feels like she doesn't know how I will react to her being with another man much less seeing it first hand in a same room swinging situation. While I don't "think" I would have a problem, I will admit I won't really know until it happens. Anyone have any insight on this?

 

I will say that my main goal in all this is for us to be happy. I will never be so arrogant as to say that I'm the only one who can please my wife sexually, that's FAR from the truth. One of my main "goals" so to speak is to see her happy. That's the reason I don't think I would have an issue with seeing her with other men. If I saw that she was enjoying herself, how could I be upset? To me, that's one of the greatest gifts I could possibly give her and vice versa!

 

Anyway, hope this thread hasn't died and that everyone had a GREAT weekend!

 

T

 

P.S. My wife is reading so at least she's interested. She's away staying with some friends and visiting family; can't wait for her to come back so we can talk about this more.

[tcphoenix 15]

One other question for the night that sprang into my head.... Once you decide to take the plunge and try swinging, how do you start? I've checked out SLS, do most try and find couples that way? Do you essentially "date" other couples, hang out and become friends first? Or do most try and find a swinger club? I know my wife is curious just the same as I so if you have any insight, I'd appreciate it! We don't know how all this works! LOL!

[slevin 1,374]

Yeah, I suspected that there was a fair bit of adultery going on but very little action being taken on it. Sort of a "dont ask, dont tell" kind of thing. The drama is a big concern and was something we were wary of when we started down this road together. We've found that there is just as much risk for drama from people who consider themselves swingers as there are from those that don't. It is all about screening people that you will get involved with, making sure that they know the situation and gauging for yourself whether someone will bring drama with them down the road. Go with your gut, even if someone seems like they are a perfect fit. I didn't mean this to be trying to convince you to look for vanilla girls, rather to be aware of the drama possibility that exists no matter where you find women/couples.

 

On the questions of how you will feel seeing another man with your girl well that's a tough topic to address. From our experience we started with softswap with another couple (basically oral and kissing) and agreed that if either of us were uncomfortable that we would stop whatever we were doing. I wasn't sure how I would feel about seeing her with another man although I knew that as a fantasy I thought that it would be very hot and exciting. I think if you can fantasize about it and find it hot that there is a good chance that in the moment you will find it exciting. For me I am not sure how I would have taken it if we had met a single man instead of a couple, I know that having someone for me to focus on and have fun with made things a bit easier that first time. That was exciting for me, seeing Katrina with another guy was exciting with some small twinges of jealousy (that have mostly subsided, but have never been an unhealthy level of jealousy) and the distraction of having someone for me to pay attention to helped me to not dwell on any small feelings of jealousy at all. We have met couples since then and the other girl and I have sat back and watched the guy and Katrina together, it was very exciting and made us both very hot just watching it.

 

So, go for it. If her wanting to have an open relationship is because she doesn't think you can handle her being with another guy then start slow, start with a couple and be open in your conversation together. Both Katrina and I find it far hotter to be there together so we can see and hear each other getting off and having fun. Katrina also loves having three people there paying attention to her (the four of us in a pile on the bed having fun); far more exciting than just having sex with someone else on our own.

[mixtupcpl 169]

TC,

 

Slevin did a great job from the swinging perspective. Ill give you a view from the "open" perspective.

 

After we/I agreed to "open" the relationship, she (of course) went first. As we've said, its oh so easy for the female.

 

So she essentially went on a date where the guy was guaranteed going to "get lucky". I can't really properly articulate how this made me feel, but I can tell you it wasnt good in any sense of that word. At that point, the idea of her with another guy wasnt even something I had really fantasized about and I was pretty jealous and insecure.

 

That said, the fact that she was off alone made it a lot worse. Her reaction to my first time was somewhat similar, but it was a bit farther down the line so it was smoother.

 

As time went by it became kind of "normal" for us and wasnt something we really discussed. It almost had no real direct impact on "us".

 

It was only recently that I decided to do some soul searching and figure out what the hell we were doing. At this point, I realized I had to accept that somewhere along the way the idea of her with another guy had actually become a kind of a turn-on. The jealousy and any insecurity had been left behind years ago, but it had never been a "positive" thing either. The one time I had seen her with another guy it had been on video and it was a definite turn on, but the fact that it was bothered me and so I rejected it and told her it wasnt something I wanted to see again (I had asked her to film it)

 

Thats another thing I think is good about taking a couples approach. You kind of dive into the deep end together right away.

 

I can almost guarantee that on some level you most likely will feel jealousy and some insecurity. There is a good chance that the heightened sexuality of the situation will make her seem more "into it" then you're used to. What you need to learn about yourself is if the reality of all of it will be something you can accept, process and then be happy with, or if it is something you just want no part of.

 

One thing you need is to make sure (beating a dead horse here) to keep talking talking talking with her. For me, I know I needed reassurance that no matter how it seemed, it would ALWAYS be "special" with me. That even if it seemed like she was having a wilder time than she ever had, that didnt make what she and I had any less special, important or fulfilling to her. To the contrary, it made what we had even MORE special.

 

She did much wilder shit with her play buddies than she and I ever had, but then again, it was all shit I had never really asked for. Only communication can keep little things like that from becoming a big issue. Sometimes when you talk these things out, you realize they're nothing whereas if you bury them, they become a real issue. Also, I think it doesnt hurt to keep something "special" thats just for you. For Mrs Mix and I, there are very few boundaries, but there are one or two things that she ONLY trusts me with and that makes a big difference to me.

 

All of this is stuff that, unfortunately, you have to experience to REALLY know. The key is to have the right groundwork laid out so if you try it and find you want to vomit and run away, you can say "ok this was a mistake" and walk away clean with NO problem from her end (and vice versa)

[tcphoenix 15]

To be perfectly honest with you, I've already thought extensively about her being with another guy and I'm incredibly turned on by the idea. I'm probably a bit of a closet voyeur so I can't say that fantasizing positively about the experience is a problem. I can't guarantee I'll be totally good to go without any off feelings but right now, doesn't bother me in the least. I think she thought I was just saying that in the beginning but... we've talked about it enough now that maybe she gets it. lol.

 

Thanks for the advice on the communication. I know we're talking well, open and honestly now, we just need to keep doing so. Communication hasn't always been our strong point but we're at a point in our marriage where all our preconceived notions, hangups and secrets are pretty much being stripped away. The comms are Good! Lol...

 

I think I'm the same in that I will probably need some reassurance from time to time that we're still good and that other men (and women) aren't replacing what we have between us. That said, this could be a really great thing. I just can't help but think that this experience could really help us grow and become more close as a couple. Does that sound crazy?

 

T

[mixtupcpl 169]

That said, this could be a really great thing. I just can't help but think that this experience could really help us grow and become more close as a couple. Does that sound crazy?

 

T

 

To 97% of the people on earth? Yes. To us here? Not at all

 

Thats what I love about this forum... Its a safe zone. Personally, I think when the right groundwork is in place, and the couple has a bond that is "real", it can all only be a good thing.

 

You're also definitely in a better place than I was when we started playing around. The little green monster can (and usually does) creep up, but as long as she knows, she will want to provide those reassurances for you.

 

So what has she been thinking about all of this lately?

[tcphoenix 15]

She's VERY curious I think. She's shifting from overwhelmed to curious so I guess that's a good sign. Since she's in CA right now, it's kind of hard for me to judge exactly where she's at. She's read this thread though and she said the replies are VERY interesting; couldn't stop reading! Heck, maybe she'll post and let you know herself! Lol....

[iapr 24]

She feels like she doesn't know how I will react to her being with another man much less seeing it first hand in a same room swinging situation. While I don't "think" I would have a problem, I will admit I won't really know until it happens. Anyone have any insight on this?

 

You won't know untill it happens and neither will she. One of the things we have learned the hard way is that some things that you think will be problematic really aren't when they do happen but rather it's the things that you never dreamed of and never gave a moments thought to that set you off when it occurs.

 

Look at it this way though, if everyone gives it a sincere try and everyone is sane and sober and behaving in a responsible manner and you try and it isn't for you, what's the harm? If you don't like it, don't do it again.

[iapr 24]

One other question for the night that sprang into my head.... Once you decide to take the plunge and try swinging, how do you start? I've checked out SLS, do most try and find couples that way? Do you essentially "date" other couples, hang out and become friends first? Or do most try and find a swinger club? I know my wife is curious just the same as I so if you have any insight, I'd appreciate it! We don't know how all this works! LOL!

 

I always advocate going to a lifestyle club as early as possible in the process even if you do not feel that you are ready to actually play. There are several reasons for this.

 

- you need to get out and see that lifestylers are regular flesh and blood people that have jobs, kids, nonsexual hobbies, zits, bald spots, stretchmarks etc etc. There will be beautiful people and not beautiful people.

 

- people that you will encounter in a club have a sitter or no kids in the house at that time. are not at work and do not have things that just come up out of the blue an hour before you are to meet them. In other words it's the old bird in the hand principle.

 

- People in a members only lifestyle club are almost always "for real". Most of the profiles you will encounter on a website are fakes, wannabes, dreamers, posers and cheating husbands. If a male and female couple are inside a members only LS club there is about a 95% chance that they are an actual consenting adult couple. Now they may not necessarily be married to each other but that's another topic all together.

 

- Many people go to clubs for the atmoshere and to socialize and dance etc with other like-minded people and do not necessarily go specifically to have sex at any given time. There is probably less pressure to actually play at many clubs than there is when you make a private date.

 

- At clubs you can meet a number of people in one location. If you meet someone and they aren't your cup of tea you can move on and you haven't burned up a whole evening over dinner and drinks with someone you just aren't clicking with. (keep in mind you will always meet more people you do not want to have sex with than people you do)

 

The downside to clubs is that while they may be a great place to meet people they are often not a good place to "get to know" people. Clubs are often loud and very distracting and it is very easy to come down with a case of Adult ADD or get stricken with a case of kid in the candy store syndrome and you just get overwhelmed and can't focus enough to make an actually connection. That's not really a problem, if you meet someone you take an interest in you can make arraingments to meet them at a later time in a less distracting and more personal setting.

[tcphoenix 15]

Ah, I love my wife so much.

 

Talked to her tonight and we're going to give swinging a whirl. We're going to have one individual playtime each (if I can find one) to get our feet wet and then we're going to dive into couples. We never have done things the usual way. LOL.... I love that woman soooo much.

 

T

[mixtupcpl 169]

why one individual first? just curious... not asking for any particular reason...

 

also, are you still "going first"? (i think you had mentioned that)

[tcphoenix 15]

She thinks it will help break the ice. We're not totally married to the idea though, if the right opportunity doesn't come along, then that's fine. We're going to start looking for couples as soon as she gets back. I'm "going" first but i'm not going to stop her if the right opportunity presents itself, ya know?

 

T

[good times 991]

Talked to her tonight and we're going to give swinging a whirl. We're going to have one individual playtime each (if I can find one) to get our feet wet and then we're going to dive into couples. We never have done things the usual way.

We actually did this ourselves. Unfortunately, neither one of us liked it, nor can we recommend it as a way to get started in swinging.

 

The main problem is that each playing with someone individually is totally different, and has absolutely no comparison to swinging together as a couple. And for us at least, while we have never had any problems with our emotions while swinging as a couple, it was a major problem when we first tried it individually. In the end, playing separately which we each did once, totally put us off of the idea of swinging for a year or two. In fact, it wasn't until we found this forum, and by reading and posting here, that we realized that swinging had nothing to do with what we had done. Which was more of a try at open marriage rather than swinging. And we came to realize that we had really taken the wrong approach to it, or at the very least had tried doing it the hard way. After much reading here and after we started talking about it again for some time we ultimately decided to give swinging, as a couple a try. As it turned out for us, swinging as a couple was great, and we haven't had a problem since.

 

Since that time we have met several couples who had given open marriage a try. We have yet to find anyone who was successful at it, for all the reasons given by others above. So, my point is, I wouldn't recommend you try playing separately first, if it actually worked for you, you would be the major exception to the rule. Most likely, it would be a bad to horrible experience for one or both of you. I would instead recommend finding a swingers club and going and checking it out. Whether you like to do things different from others or not, the odds are, going to a club together first will work out a lot better for you in the end.

[tcphoenix 15]

The individual playtime isn't set in stone per say. We're proceeding forward as a couple and if the individual thing happens, it happens but if it doesn't, it's ok. The one thing she's NOT comfortable with is the club scene. She wants to meet couples outside of that from AFF or SLS and go from there. So that's what we're going to try.

 

On that note, what's up with SLS today? Can't add a new account! Lol...

[bbarnsworth 2,636]

You won't know untill it happens and neither will she. One of the things we have learned the hard way is that some things that you think will be problematic really aren't when they do happen but rather it's the things that you never dreamed of and never gave a moments thought to that set you off when it occurs.

 

tcphoenix, My wife and I can echo this. We talked and talked and talked before the first experience, and went over every possible scenario we could imagine. We did a soft swap our first time, and it worked out wonderfully. Neither of us had any problem with the other enjoying someone else. Neither of us had a problem being enjoyed and pleasured by someone else.

 

Oddly, though nothing set us off per se, it was the little things that threw us a tiny bit. It was a bit odd for me the first time the other woman put her hands on my sides. Freaky, huh? It just felt odd. I was fine with it, in that it didn't cause any problems, but my brain just kinda did a double take on it.

 

You may find similar. For example, your wife might find it perfectly fine to have another man kissing her nipples, and then mentally trip over him kissing her fingers.

 

There's so much of this that you simply can't know until you actually do it.

 

As to your concerns about your own reaction; based on what you've been saying, I don't think you will have a problem. The thought turning you on and her pleasure being important to you are strong indicators that you'll be fine with it. As I told my wife before the first time, "In as much as I can know that I'll be ok with it, I'll be ok with it". Subsequent to that first time (soft swap) "Yes, that confirmed it for me. I'd have no problem watching you have sex with other men"

 

We actually did this ourselves. Unfortunately, neither one of us liked it, nor can we recommend it as a way to get started in swinging. [...] Whether you like to do things different from others or not, the odds are, going to a club together first will work out a lot better for you in the end.

 

MAJOR echo, tcphoenix. Playing alone, separately, for the first experience is far more likely to lead to problems than playing together with another couple. Your wife doesn't like the club scene. Well, that's fine. She doesn't have to like it. But, understand there's no pressure. In fact, it's the reverse. There's lots of other people there. Everyone knows everyone is there for the same reasons (more or less) so in that sense there is less pressure. On a date with another couple, there can be an awful lot of time and anxiety spent over "are we connecting? Are we wasting our time with this couple?" etc. At a club, that's not the case. At least, not in our experience.

 

The benefits you are wanting in your marriage are far more achievable playing together than apart. Maybe later playing apart will work well. But, for getting your feet wet I strongly recommend playing together. But, of course, we don't know you; it's your life and maybe your situation is utterly different. Just passing along some advice.

[Mr&MrsGoat 15]

I just want to say 'thank you' for this thread. Although I know I was never in debate about whether I wanted an 'open' or 'swing' experience, some of the questions here were exactly the ones I was thinking of but couldn't put into words.

 

You all ROCK!

[tcphoenix 15]

I just want to say 'thank you' for this thread. Although I know I was never in debate about whether I wanted an 'open' or 'swing' experience, some of the questions here were exactly the ones I was thinking of but couldn't put into words.

 

You all ROCK!

 

You're very welcome, I'm glad that our questions and everyone's answers helped you out.

[tcphoenix 15]

We're online as a couple on SLS. We're sooo darned excited!

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

It seems like you are getting caught up in semantics a lot. Threesomes are still swinging... and you can swing seperately as well (in different rooms) if a fear of having to perform in front of each other is there.

 

You've already seen a lot of debate here (i'm sure) about the differences of opinions on open relationships vs swinging. The key is figuring out what you both really want in your relationship and what you want to add to it and how. Then don't worry about the terminology.

[ItTakes3 19]

We have a one-way open marriage, and it was a mutual decision. As others have said, it's difficult for a man to find a non-emotional, for-the-sex-only relationship with a woman, but it's usually simple for a woman.

 

My wife has been with three other men since a threesome we had with another woman, but since I get turned on hearing about her activities, we are both enjoying the open marriage.

 

We're hoping to find a situation that is almost poly, but without the emotional ties. That is also difficult to find.

 

BTW, it's not the military that has the strict laws concerning sexual conduct, it's the civilians and their elected representatives who decide how military members must conduct themselves. Congress writes the laws (UCMJ), and the military enforces them. Of course, the military has substantial input, but civilians have the final say.

 

When you consider the makeup of the military, with perhaps 95% of the force in their years of peak sexuality, and when you and live and work in the typical military environment, the rules have to be stricter than they are for the general population if you wish to keep order.