"Beautiful People Only!" Swing Clubs/Groups

[jen 16]

Not that I'm a club going sort, if I were, this would be of such pressure...what if they say -- no... you're not good enough -- who are they to say I'm not good enough, what if they say --- sure sure c'mon in -- and in is just as uncomfortable as out... what if you’re in and your partner is out…yikes, what if your partner is in and you’re out…ouch…

 

Nope too much pressure.

 

I’ll just be me.

 

 

[Nymph an' Satyr 22]

Was it Mark Twain who said that he wouldn't want to be a member of a club that would accept him? Maybe it was H.L. Menkin.....

 

I don't know, beautiful people are alright I guess, but when they "know" that they are beautuful- I think it becomes rather unsufferable.

 

Somewhat egotistical, yes?

[lovers 25]

Quote

"Was it Mark Twain who said that he wouldn't want to be a member of a club that would accept him?"

 

It was Twain.

 

The point I was trying to make was that I think that the people who run a club looking for "perfect" people might think twice about it if a club who was only interested in "average" people not only existed, but thrived. You have to believe that there's a lot more "average" people out there than "perfect" people.

 

By the way, I am aware of a couple of "black only" clubs in the States. I could care less that they exist because I wouldn't frequent them anyway (and I'm black). I say let them do what they want. It's a free society we live in and we'll let the masses decide this issue.

[fun_pairTX 26]

If by some fluke they let us in I would be sure to get us ejected in nothing flat. LOL I have this tendency to calls em as I sees em, and as soon as they started competing for mirror space I would call em all on it. EBF calls this my "pragmatism". Actually you could probably find me at the out door for the rejects, scoping out all the ladies with real curves.

[Elusive BiFem 70]

You know...I just went out for a walk with the heathens (my dogs for those of you that don't know...) and was really giving this subject some serious thought. As I walked, I stopped and talked to quite a few people - some I like a bunch, others a little, some I hardly know just now but hope to become friends with, and even a few that I could care less about seeing again. All different. But they make up my world. I share this world with them. A few were quite attractive, most were only average. But all were unique. And I kept wondering about this post....

 

Quite frankly, when I first read it, I didn't think much of it and kind of responded sarcastically. Then, lovers came on with his idea of segregating people "who are average and weigh 220+ pounds" into a club of their own...I suppose so the "beautiful people" would not have to contend with them? I'm not certain.

 

I'm average, but I'm not 220+ pounds. So where do I get to go. I'm quickly approaching 54, so now we need a club for those "almost" 54, but average? Those that are younger than 35 but "just" average? When you start this type of thing, where do you really draw the line? And what kind of people are we if we want to segregate others based solely on physical attributes and we are not willing or able to look beyond that? I'll grant you...part of swinging is purely physical attraction, but we're all attracted to different types. What one person may call attractive I would not, necessarily. Bill Clinton is an example. So many find him attractive. I found him to be repugnant and that having nothing to do with his behavior. I just don't like the way he looks. Period.

 

The more I thought about it the more seriously pissed off I got about the whole idea of this "beautiful people" thing.

 

And then..it finally came to me. All of this emphasis on looks is like a costume party. Just a cover-up. You never really know who is under that costume until it comes off, but by damn, it will. Eventually. And you might be real shocked when it does. Those costumes don't mean jack in the final analysis.

 

So...for those that would even consider membership at a "beautiful people" club, enjoy yourselves - knowing that it's really nothing more than a costume party. You also need to go with full knowledge that someday, somewhere, somebody is going thing you are not "attractive" enough.

 

I think I'd have far more fun with those that don't need a costume in the first place because I like people first.

[yawanna 17]

"Was it Mark Twain who said that he wouldn't want to be a member of a club that would accept him?"

 

It was actually Groucho Marx

[yawanna 17]

EBF you are eloquent and articulate as always.

 

I, too, have had to rethink what swinging is after attending the different clubs and reading all the different takes on it.

 

If it really is people who enjoy sex with others I consider it a form of blashpemy let alone a form of cashing in on something by club owners and event organizers to say beautiful people only and they need to apply. No one can yet define 'attracted to' and the reasons for it..... and I always thought and hoped that swinging was a way to that... exploring sexuality and no one gets hurt.,

 

This segregation shit burns my butt because it's segregation....seriously.. we could avenue off into uncut only, asian only, bbw only, over 50 only, under 30 only, and an and on and on. And this isn't private small functions.. this is being promoted by the swinger clubs on their websites. At what point is this a swinger community? At what point do we have choice, and options, and diversity?

[Alura 2,771]

Originally posted by yawanna

EBF you are eloquent and articulate as always.

 

I, too, have had to rethink what swinging is after attending the different clubs and reading all the different takes on it.

 

And this isn't private small functions.. this is being promoted by the swinger clubs on their websites. At what point is this a swinger community? At what point do we have choice, and options, and diversity?

 

Absolutely, Yawanna! We can hit them in the pocketbooks by not "applying." If others want to go to such a club, I can only say, "Y'all have fun, y'heah?"

 

Mr. Alura

[Alura 2,771]

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem

Well, Mr. Alura...I guess if Mrs. Alura decides to go alone, you and I could catch a movie or something. Shuffleboard anyone?

 

I don't think I'll be invited either. Just can't imagine why...

 

-EBF

 

OK, yawanna...serious answer? No, I don't think I would want to attend even if I did meet their "criteria." That kind of stuff makes me uncomfortable - I don't like being measured. - EBF

 

I checked with Mrs. Alura, EBF. She'd rather go with us.

 

Mr. Alura

[Alura 2,771]

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem

 

I think I'd have far more fun with those that don't need a costume in the first place because I like people first. - EBF

 

EBF, you are dynamite! Or as Jen might say, "You Rock!"

 

Truth is, I'd pick EBF over any of those "beautiful people." She's beautiful inside. And since I've met her, let me assure y'all that she ain't bad to look at either.

 

Mr. Alura

[Alura 2,771]

Originally posted by yawanna

It was actually Groucho Marx

 

I almost wrote that, Yawanna! But I wasn't sure of myself! Thank you!

 

Mr. Alura

[wcplnsac 15]

We are a big beautiful couple with a down home country charm and have tried to get into a couple of clubs that cater to the beautiful people only. Needless to say we were denied entrance even though I personally explained that we were beautiful in our own way and the door person agreed but said he would lose his job if he let us in so I wrote a very nasty letter to the owner and even though I received no reply I still feel better for having written them. I hope that everybody that gets turned away will write the owners and maybe, just maybe they will eventually get the idea. Maybe it is a dream but why not try?

 

Ted

[thekolonel 15]

I guess I'll have to be the lone dissenting voice. These semi-private, pre-screened events have been a godsend to us, as we at first found the idea of going to the public clubs around here intimidating. This is about sexual exploration, after all, and I'm not gonna lie to myself and say looks don't matter. While we are definitely open-minded about age, neither of us is interested in playing with people who are old enough to be our parents. And while I am attracted to a wide range of body types, from rail-thin to voluptuous, I'm generally not attracted to women who weigh as much or more than I do. It's just my preference, for better or worse. I can't fake it.

 

Despite the hype circulating in various media outlets (Playboy, GQ, etc.) these events aren't quite the modelpaloozas many people imagine them to be. Yeah, the guests are a bit younger than is average for the old-school swinger scene, and more attractive and stylish than most of the folks you see walking down the street. However, there's still a good 25 year age-spread and a variety of body types, including a smattering of BBW's and BBM's. Even within this pre-screened group I've already greatly expanded my definition of what is attractive. But at least I know, headed over to Grego's or wherever, that a decent percentage of the people are going to be sexy, fit and in my general age range.

 

This is about fantasy. Desire fulfillment. And there is nothing wrong with going after exactly what you want. How many people have posted on this very message board about, say, Mandingo clubs and wanting to find well-hung black men? I personally find *that* somewhat offensive. I could say "hey, that's not swinging: looks, race, dick-size, etc. aren't supposed to matter." But we all know that's BS. If people want to fulfill specific fantasies, be that with black men, statuesque blondes, or BBW's then so be it. There's room for us all under this tent. I may not want to play with some of you, but that hardly means I don't respect you, or that the girlfriend and I are some vapid Barbie and Ken clones hogging the mirror space.

[wcplnsac 15]

I tend to disagree with your thoughts in this matter. When I find that I am not welcome just because I may be larger than some and believe me I am not, then I feel that it is because the people involved are stuck up bitches and really don't deserve to know a good person such as myself or others like me. As I say I am only 225 and really don't show it and am 5'11" or so and have been told by some very sexy ladies that I am very good looking and extremely well endowed, so where do people, especially club owners get off not allowing someone like me in just because they don't or their clients don't like my looks or age, or whatever else. I bet that there are at least a couple of ladies in those clubs that do find me attractive and would want to spend time with me if given the chance. Where do you or anyone else get off denying me or them the opportunity to find out? I have in the past had a party or two and never denied anyone the privilege of attending unless there just plain wasn't any more room. I will let you know now that IT ALWAYS WORKED OUT unlike people like you would have people like me believe. I honestly think that it is more that you and people like you are afraid that one day your going to be a larger person and older and you don't want to have to think about it. OH WELL, think about it because it WILL MOST LIKELY HAPPEN! Face it, you can't be a young punk forever.

[yawanna 17]

Up here anyway, like lovers mentioned..it's the 'thing' to target the younger market. But, I was reading on another message board here about the 'young uns' and that they are a) just plain too young to connect with married folks with kids and a mortgage or b) too new in their relationship to be solid and stable.

 

We have had our influx of young uns and bottom line this 'beautiful people only' gig is it's people looking to make a buck off them.

 

Naturally 20 somethings going to a swinger club will find very few like themselves present.. the reason? a and b above

 

And in another thread, 'why', and to comment on thekolonel's posting.... it ISN"T just about sex. we can get that with lube, the right or left hand, a dildo (battery or manual) or up here we can hit one of the gay bars (yes lesbian, too) and pick up someone for an hour or so, or..... grab a hooker or 'escort' at a price.

 

Sure sometimes it's just about sex and those times are few and far between quite frankly. Because if you are a hit and run bang em and go couple in swinging.. word travels fast. And it's not a good word

 

When we go to clubs and swinger events.. we TALK to people. No matter what they look like, unless they have 3 heads but that never happens. It's personality THEN we can talk about sex.

 

It's hard enough to find people in our age range... 30's to 50's.. who have their shit together, never mind us applying to join a 'beautiful people only' event because.. who says THEY have their shit together? No one can. It's not about age or going to the gym...it's ATTITUDE and PERSONALITY.

 

THEN ...MAYBE... sex. get it?

[yawanna 17]

I say we start an after-club on-premise party for only people who 'get' swinging... we need references

[WildFlower 17]

A beautiful people only club sounds way to elitist and snobbish. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have met some attractive looking people but after talking with them for awhile found them less so because of there attitude and personality.

 

I would prefer to go to a club where all different kinds of people are welcome and accepted. I would enjoy myself more.

[Elusive BiFem 70]

Originally posted by WildFlower

I would prefer to go to a club where all different kinds of people are welcome and accepted. I would enjoy myself more.

 

That just about sums it up, WildFlower. I really enjoy people. All different types of people. Some I like more than others, but it is a rare occasion that I meet someone that I don't take something away from the meeting.

 

I have no qualms with any person finding a specific type sexually attractive. We all do. But, while sex is one of the primary motivating factors in swinging, there are other things that come into play, too.

 

I find myself to be one of the most interesting people I know, but if I was surrounded by people just like me all the time, I think I would get really bored! I said that tongue-in-cheek, but really, part of what makes me and all of us interesting people is the different people and ideas we've been fortunate to know and experience.

 

And for those that might think my stance on this subject is "sour-grapes" - it isn't. Not at all. Except for my age, I suspect I would "qualify" for the "beautiful people" membership card. I just have my own ideas of what defines "beautiful people." Thank goodness. - EBF

[yawanna 17]

wcplnsac:

 

As I say I am only 225 and really don't show it and am 5'11" or so

 

I absolutely ADORE big men - I like to climb all over them

 

I also LUV slim men - I can grab their sides and move them around

 

I also feel so amazing when a man is turned on by me, and shows it by touching my leg, or leaning into me, or gazing at me - or holding me very tightly when we dance or hug

 

and the best part? this all happened with big, tall, short, skinny, bald, long hair, 30, 40, and even a 55 yr old - classically good looking, average looking, even men who look like nerds in everyday life, but they are STUNNING in bed

 

Clubs or people that put qualifiers on their searches or events are choosing to limit their options. I don't want to make that same choice and I don't like that those limits are gaining momentum.

[thekolonel 15]

Quote

Originally posted by wcplnsac

When I find that I am not welcome just because I may be larger than some and believe me I am not, then I feel that it is because the people involved are stuck up bitches and really don't deserve to know a good person such as myself or others like me. As I say I am only 225 and really don't show it and am 5'11" or so and have been told by some very sexy ladies that I am very good looking and extremely well endowed, so where do people, especially club owners get off not allowing someone like me in just because they don't or their clients don't like my looks or age, or whatever else. ... Where do you or anyone else get off denying me or them the opportunity to find out? I have in the past had a party or two and never denied anyone the privilege of attending unless there just plain wasn't any more room. I will let you know now that IT ALWAYS WORKED OUT unlike people like you would have people like me believe. I honestly think that it is more that you and people like you are afraid that one day your going to be a larger person and older and you don't want to have to think about it. OH WELL, think about it because it WILL MOST LIKELY HAPPEN! Face it, you can't be a young punk forever.

 

Why the heat Ted? I am not a bouncer or a club owner. I am not the source of your troubles. I merely expressed my preference, which apparently isn't allowed around here unless I agree with everyone else. I have been shot down at parties by women who thought I wasn't attractive enough to play with. And I have been on the wrong side of quite a few velvet ropes in my time. Big deal. That's life. I don't see how this makes anyone "stuck up", as you say. Besides, I've met plenty of guys with similar stats as yours at these parties.

 

I, too, have thrown parties in the past and it definitely does not always work out if everyone is not comfortable with everyone else, whether that's based on looks, personality or anything else.

 

And yes Ted, I will get older, though probably not larger (my father's about the same size), and when I reach that point I will play with older people. For now I will play with people in my own general age group, who I find physically and intellectually appealing. Tell me what the hell is wrong with that? You are coming across as the punk here, not I.

 

I won't apologize for choosing my play partners in part based on age and looks. To say these things do not matter in the least is so much sophistry. It takes a bit more than attitude and personality to engage my naughty bits. If, as many of you say, this isn't "really" about sex then why bother pursuing sex at all outside of your relationships? At least have the courage to call a spade a spade. Are we honestly to believe that when you guys place personals ads, for example, you have absolutely no qualifiers regarding looks, age or any number of other things (such as race) that, as you say, really shouldn't matter?

 

Talk about snobbishness. I find the insinuation that we just don't "get it" repellent, as well as the notion that the younger crowd is automatically suspect. How is this inclusive? Who the hell has any right to tell anyone else what swinging is and isn't? Ultimately, who cares what the "beautiful people" are up to if we are content with our own playmates? I think there is a lot of bitterness and insecurity that undergirds some of these responses.

[Ontcouple 15]

Quote

Originally posted by yawanna

I say we start an after club on premise party for only people who 'get' swinging.. we need references

 

In your previous posts you have criticized the club owners for opening a club for people they deem attractive..but by making a statement like above, are you not doing the same? Who is going to decide who "gets" swinging? Everyone's opinions and views differ.

 

[OhioCouple 40]

This is one of those kind of subjects that can get people riled for mostly no reason. Goodness knows we have had several here regarding HWP, bi-sexuality---male and female, etc.

 

This is what I have learned in the two years of reading this board. It's different strokes for different folks. What I may not agree with, hundreds of others may. It is how I express myself and my beliefs that makes a difference. It's taken me quite a while to learn that and I still fail on occasion.

 

I was going to stay away from posting my opinion in this thread, but I'll toss mine out anyway.

 

Anyone that owns a club or hosts a party that isn't funded by charitable donations, IMO can set whatever guidelines that they wish. If that means a swingers club that will turn you away at the door...so be it. If it means that you don't weigh over a certain amount or your hair style is passe.... and they turn you away so be it. Will it yank your chain or make you feel bad? Perhaps. However.... you have a choice here.

 

You can choose to be resentfull about it (like that would do any good) or you can just say to yourself... "Hey they probably aren't the kind of people that would suit my preferences anyway." And admit...we all have preferences, no swinger is without them.

 

For instance, I wouldn't swing or associate with anyone who is cheating. Does that make me discriminate? You bet it does. But it's my preference. I don't particularly care for foul mouthed people. Again, that is discrimantion, but it's my preference. It's really no different than those that have other standards. While I may not agree with them, they might not agree with mine either. It doesn't tho, give me the right to say theirs are wrong and mine are right. What it does tho, is give me the option to say..."To each it's own". And that is what I choose to do.

[Alura 2,771]

Quote

Originally posted by thekolonel

I merely expressed my preference, which apparently isn't allowed around here unless I agree with everyone else.

The nice thing about this board, kolonel, is that you don't have to agree with anybody. You also can't expect them to agree with you. There's a lot of people who disagree. Just ask John. He thinks George Bush is just great and I still like him (John, that is)>

 

Quote

I won't apologize for choosing my play partners in part based on age and looks. To say these things do not matter in the least is so much sophistry. It takes a bit more than attitude and personality to engage my naughty bits. If, as many of you say, this isn't "really" about sex then why bother pursuing sex at all outside of your relationships?

 

A lot of us like to have sex with our friends and refuse to have sex with strangers. We don't care if you do the opposite. Mrs. Alura and I have no interest in going to clubs, but if we did, we wouldn't want the club management to decide who we would have sex with. We'll do that ourselves and it might not be a couple who looks like Ken and Barbie. We certainly wouldn't insist that they look like them.

 

Quote

Who the hell has any right to tell anyone else what swinging is and isn't?

 

We certainly agree with this, Kolonel, and would include club management in the group that has no such rights.

 

Mr. Alura

[BradAndJanet 70]

Quote

Originally posted by thekolonel

... I merely expressed my preference, which apparently isn't allowed around here unless I agree with everyone else. ...

 

Nope, I can't agree with that You have a right to your preferences, everyone does. Although I said we wouldn't be interested in attending such a party, I'd never argue that you don't have the right to hold it and screen the attendees to your heart's desire. Looks are not a primary attractant for us, personality is, but I refuse to say that makes us in some way 'better' than you (or vice versa). They are simply preferences, nothing more.

 

Quote

... I won't apologize for choosing my play partners in part based on age and looks. To say these things do not matter in the least is so much sophistry. It takes a bit more than attitude and personality to engage my naughty bits. ...

You shouldn't have to apologize. For you, looks are very important. As you said, that's part of the fantasy for you. If it doesn't 'work' for you any other way, then that should be fine. To each their own.

[yawanna 17]

In your previous posts you have critisized the club owners for opening a club for people they deem attractive..but by making a statement like above, are you not doing the same? Who is going to decide who "gets" swinging? Everyones opinions and views differ.

 

It was a joke man.. sheesh.

 

Follow me here... IF the 'swinger' community can subdivide itself to BBW, or just blacks, or just 'beautiful people', under 40's or 50, 20 somethings, those who wear only plaid, yadda yadda.

 

see where I'm headed? It becomes about the subcommittee...not swinging, IMHO. Kinda like mail order brides...mail order sex

 

I'd like to have a pony, too

[thekolonel 15]

OhioCouple, I like your perspective. Okay, people are sounding more reasonable now. Just a couple of quibbles.

 

Originally posted by Alura

We certainly agree with this, Kolonel, and would include club management in the group that has no such rights.

 

Management has every right to screen. After all, it's private property and they are taking on the risks associated with hosting. They aren't forcing you to attend, nor do they care what you do on your own. If I threw a party in my home and applied whatever arbitrary criteria to my guestlist, would I be telling *you* how to swing? Of course not. And neither are club owners when they set arbitrary criteria for events.

 

Even the most "open" of clubs usually have a dress-code, a code-of-conduct, and reserve the right to deny entrance or eject anyone they please. Hell I was almost turned away at the door to an off-premises party because I wore (stylish) corduroys. Many clubs do not admit single men under any circumstances, and possibly for good reason. I don't hear as many people complaining about that. Does this stop couples from swinging with single men? No.

 

So, yeah, management is always doing some kind of screening that might result in you missing out on people. But that's life; they have every right to hand-pick their guests and you have every right to go somewhere else more to your liking.

 

Originally posted by BradAndJanet

For you, looks are very important. As you said, that's part of the fantasy for you. If it doesn't 'work' for you any other way, then that should be fine.

 

Hmmm... I'm not sure if I like the implication here. If you are saying looks are *more* important to me than they are to most swingers, or that personality is somehow *less* important to me, I honestly do not believe this to be the case. I think there's a large gulf between the ideals expressed on this board and the way people actually behave when rubber meets road. Sure, in a room full of potential playmates, personality may be the deciding factor, but someone's physical presence is what sparks that initial curiousity. I don't think anyone here actually believes physical beauty is unimportant. Just look at the passions this thread has ignited over the subject.

 

And yawanna, the internet has already subdivided people into those sorts of categories. But I kind of agree with what you are saying. A (regular) dating site I used to be on had a good mix of freaks and regular folks... a lot of interesting things happened when those two blobs of people interacted. People's horizons expanded. Now the freaks have increasingly specialized "lifestyle" sites and the regular folks have their bland, neurotic "find the luv of yer life" sites.

 

So, yeah, there *should* be a way for disparate groups of swingers to rub elbows (this board being one), but you also have to understand that in any large lifestyle community people necessarily settle into sub-tribes where they feel most at home. Queer folks figured out how handle this stuff a long time ago. Swingers should do so well.

[yawanna 17]

Clarification: it's an after the club on premise party in most likely a hotel.. It is NOT a club..it's what we call 'house parties'. It is PROMOTED by clubs online. It is affiliated with swinger clubs but not run by them.

 

It's run by one couple who want to have houseparties with only people they deem 'exceptional' in their looks. You have to make an application to attend, send pics, full body and face shots, be interviewed by them, pre pay then BYOB, too.

 

.

Queer folks figured out how handle this stuff a long time ago. Swingers should do so well.

 

Yes they did.. and all you need to attend any queer bar or function is be gay. I expect the same of swinger bars and events.

[thekolonel 15]

Sure, so the couple wants to have a semi-private event surrounded by people they find attractive. More power to 'em. If there's swapping and sex going on it sure sounds like swinging to me, just perhaps not what you are used to. I personally think it's bad form to charge for an after-party, but hey, it's their event. They can do whatever they want with it. It's the marketplace of ideas... if enough people are interested in an open alternative there will be one.

 

I have a gay friend who comes to visit me here in NYC so he can go to different clubs, events and such. Some of the sex-themed events and clubs have the same sorts of screening that the semi-private swinger clubs do. And even at open bars and clubs, it is simply understood that, for example, guys over 40 go to Rawhide and the young guys go to the View. Lipsticky girls go to Meow Mix Thursdays and butches go on Fridays. So while there are spaces open to all there are also more selective subcultures.

[Alura 2,771]

Quote

Originally posted by thekolonel

Management has every right to screen.

 

All right, Kolonel, since it's their club we'll give in to this one. We have the right to not go, and that's what we'll do, because we refuse to cede our right to anyone else to decide who we will not swing with. Y'all have fun!

[wcplnsac 15]

Quote

Originally posted by thekolonel

Why the heat Ted? I am not a bouncer or a club owner. I am not the source of your troubles. I merely expressed my preference, which apparently isn't allowed around here unless I agree with everyone else. I have been shot down at parties by women who thought I wasn't attractive enough to play with. And I have been on the wrong side of quite a few velvet ropes in my time. Big deal. That's life. I don't see how this makes anyone "stuck up", as you say. Besides, I've met plenty of guys with similar stats as yours at these parties.

 

I, too, have thrown parties in the past and it definitely does not always work out if everyone is not comfortable with everyone else, whether that's based on looks, personality or anything else.

 

And yes Ted, I will get older, though probably not larger (my father's about the same size), and when I reach that point I will play with older people. For now I will play with people in my own general age group, who I find physically and intellectually appealing. Tell me what the hell is wrong with that? You are coming across as the punk here, not I.

 

I won't apologize for choosing my play partners in part based on age and looks. To say these things do not matter in the least is so much sophistry. It takes a bit more than attitude and personality to engage my naughty bits. If, as many of you say, this isn't "really" about sex then why bother pursuing sex at all outside of your relationships? At least have the courage to call a spade a spade. Are we honestly to believe that when you guys place personals ads, for example, you have absolutely no qualifiers regarding looks, age or any number of other things (such as race) that, as you say, really shouldn't matter?

 

Talk about snobbishness. I find the insinuation that we just don't "get it" repellent, as well as the notion that the younger crowd is automatically suspect. How is this inclusive? Who the hell has any right to tell anyone else what swinging is and isn't? Ultimately, who cares what the "beautiful people" are up to if we are content with our own playmates? I think there is a lot of bitterness and insecurity that undergirds some of these responses.

 

Okay, first of all I said I think of the people who make these decisions are snobbish. Second, I said that you can't remain a young punk forever not necessarily calling you a punk but if the shoe fits? I am just saying that I am of an age now where a lot, in fact most everybody under 30 is more or less a young punk to me, not meaning anything bad but as a terminology.

 

Now for something else, I will admit that I use a cane to walk now thanks to a young punk gangster who attacked me at work when my back was turned. And to me that shouldn't make a difference but even with my use of the cane I am still a person with a good personality and that is what a lot of people who swing look at. Not just the looks, and let's face it, it doesn't matter who you are or how good looking or young or even rich a person is there are people out there who will not find them attractive and therefore not want to have anything to do with them yet they will want me so why should I be banned from a party, a club, a social, or anything else based on my looks, handicap or wealth? If I am capable of performing, clean, polite to others and able to pay my own way why should I be turned away? Just because someone doesn't like the way I look? or the way I dress? or the fact that I am not rich? or maybe because I am a democrat? I think this is unjust.

 

As far as qualifiers in my ads? The only real qualifier is that I want them older than 25 because I have run into people who lie about their age and say they are 20 to 23 or so when they are really only 16 or 17 and I don't feel like going to jail for their lies. At 25 it becomes a real stretch for them to lie about the age.

 

As far as race or anything else? I don't personally care except that they be clean and disease free. If they are gay, bi, straight, 25 to 250 years old, 20 lbs to 2000 lbs red, yellow, black or white, I don't care as long as they have a good personality, are fun, likeable, and willing to give me as much as I give them. So dream on about that part of your argument as it doesn't hold water.

 

Okay, now I apologize if you think that I was coming down on you, I wasn't, I was attacking your ideas. I disagree with them and always will but you may or may not be a great person. I don't know you, hopefully we can meet one day but until then it isn't you, okay? Have a great day.

 

Ted

[wcplnsac 15]

One other thing Kolonel, You can have all the opinions you want and you can express them all you want and in fact if anyone tells you different I would be one of the first to jump their s _ _ _ about it and I expect the same rights to be accorded to me.

 

Sincerely,

TED

[wcplnsac 15]

Yes it is their club but do the people within belong to them? So long as it isn't going to hurt someone and there is room then I believe that anyone should be allowed, that is my opinion and if they don't believe that and they want to discriminate then in my opinion they need to be discriminated against and maybe they will learn a lesson. I know, I'm dreaming again, they will never learn! But isn't that the truth about all bigots? And so I don't offend anyone unduly, a bigot is someone who discriminates for any reason and is intolerant of others whom he/she discriminates against.

[Nymph an' Satyr 22]

I'll go back to the original question, i.e., "Would you apply to get in...."

 

My answer is "No." Aside from the fact that they wouldn't accept me it's not my kind of attitude. I wouldn't apply to go to a "white collar professionals only" party either, on the same principle.

 

But I have no objection to those who choose to go....just not my personal cup of tea.

 

And yeah I think it's somewhat elitist and snobby. And maybe, even probably- the folks that go to something like that wouldn't mix well with me and the kind of people I like anyway

[thekolonel 15]

Well there you have it. No one under 25. To me, that's just another arbitrary age qualification. So you do have your qualifications, as does everyone else. And if you threw a party and a bunch of 23 year olds wanted to come you might screen those guests carefully if not turn them down outright.

 

If screening for age and looks is bigotry, then screening out single men, which 95% of clubs do these days, is the worst kind of bigotry. But you know what? Some couples prefer the couples-only dynamic because that's what feels most comfortable to them, and who am I to judge someone for wanting to provide that kind of environment? And likewise, the young hotties want a space of their own. Those big clubs that cater to all will always be there and this can only introduce more people into the lifestyle, so what's there to bitch about?

 

By the by, your point about disability is off base. One of the most regular of party attendees I've met is a woman in a wheel chair. She is, however, hot and within the age range these events are looking to attract.

 

So would I go to this thing? I'd probably give it a try once. The screening I have been through in the past was 95% about making sure we were a real couple and generally not psychotic, so for that alone it can be worthwhile.

[wcplnsac 15]

Quote

Originally posted by thekolonel

Well there you have it. No one under 25. To me, that's just another arbitrary age qualification. So you do have your qualifications, as does everyone else. And if you threw a party and a bunch of 23 year olds wanted to come you might screen those guests carefully if not turn them down outright.

 

If screening for age and looks is bigotry, then screening out single men, which 95% of clubs do these days, is the worst kind of bigotry. But you know what? Some couples prefer the couples-only dynamic because that's what feels most comfortable to them, and who am I to judge someone for wanting to provide that kind of environment? And likewise, the young hotties want a space of their own. Those big clubs that cater to all will always be there and this can only introduce more people into the lifestyle, so what's there to bitch about?

 

By the by, your point about disability is off base. One of the most regular of party attendees I've met is a woman in a wheel chair. She is, however, hot and within the age range these events are looking to attract.

 

So would I go to this thing? I'd probably give it a try once. The screening I have been through in the past was 95% about making sure we were a real couple and generally not psychotic, so for that alone it can be worthwhile.

 

Bigotry has nothing to do with the idea of self preservation and protection. Whether or not I agree with the laws or not in California it is a fact that 17 can get you 25 and 16 can get you life. Therefore anyone who doesn't have an age stipulation with that in mind is in my opinion a very stupid individual, and the idea that bigotry and self preservation/protection is one and the same is also the sign of either a very uneducated or stupid person. I assume that you are neither so why go down that street? I will always protect myself and my family whether or not I believe it is necessarily the right thing that I have to do in order to maintain that protection. Please get a life and quit trying to point out other people's prejudice in order to justify your own. You know in your heart that it is bigotry to qualify people on the basis of looks and age for any reason other than legal or moral. So please don't go there again, it truly makes you sound like less of a person than I would like to believe you are.

[Nymph an' Satyr 22]

Perhaps part of the problem is the rather subjective viewpoint of whos is "attractive enough" to be invited. Age requirements, are at least somewhat objective in that at least there is no argument over whether you are under 30, or over 30.

 

Being subjectively screened out as not "pretty enough" is tough medicine for most of us I think.

 

Reminds me of the guy who judges show girl applicants for breast shape, size, and perkiness. Looking for the right tit for the fit- so to speak....

[Elusive BiFem 70]

Quote

Originally posted by Nymph an' Satyr

Perhaps part of the problem is the rather subjective viewpoint of whos is "attractive enough" to be invited. Age requirements, are at least somewhat objective in that at least there is no argument over whether you are under 30, or over 30.

 

Being subjectively screened out as not "pretty enough" is tough medicine for most of us I think.

 

Reminds me of the guy who judges show girl applicants for breast shape, size, and perkiness. Looking for the right tit for the fit- so to speak....

 

Sounds to me like Nymph an' Satyr hit on the crux of the entire thing. Being screened out for appearance is definitely "tough medicine" and, I believe, can be such a hurtful thing for some.

 

We all have our own "internal" qualifiers for everything we do. Friends we associate ourselves with at work, home, play...everywhere we go. My friends are in my age range. Not because I don't think those younger (20's, 30's) don't have value, but because we simply don't have the same interest. But even "young" people serve a purpose and have a role in my life. If nothing else, they help keep me younger in outlook and attitude.

 

I'm also somewhat resentful of any establishment/club/school/work environment that limits my ability of choice. For me, that is almost akin to saying that I don't have the ability to make my own decisions or to decide what is best for me.

 

While I may choose not to "play" with certain people or certain "types," I really enjoy the exposure to lots of different types of people. But I take more away from the idea of swinging than others. For me, it isn't just about sex but also about interaction, talking to others with similar ideas about sexuality...things that I can't find with my regular friends. Someone else said earlier - here or somewhere - that swinging is different things to different people. And that is it in a nutshell. We all see it differently and experience it differently and need and want different things. None of those differences make one way right, another wrong. Those differences just make us unique. Which goes full-circle back to the reason I personally do not believe in the screening process based on looks, age, weight, etc. My opinions only...

[thekolonel 15]

Ted, it is easy to determine in short order whether someone under 25 is of legal age, unless you are specifically pursuing "barely legals", which men over 21 probably shouldn't be doing anyway. One of my play partners is 21, she graduated college and is entering a masters program, has valid ID, etc. Never for a minute have I harbored doubts that she might be 16 or 17. Frankly that's laughable and has never been an issue with anyone I've ever met. So "protecting" yourself by never interacting with anyone under 25 is pure idiocy.

 

There is real bigotry in the world that affects people's ability to get jobs, vote, associate freely, etc. Your sense of entitlement is astounding. It's frankly insulting to anyone who has faced real bigotry that you've elevated attending someone's private sex party to the level of a basic human right. So what? No one is obligated to see anyone else naked, nor play with anyone else. So someone didn't let you into their little party. Boo hoo. I have no sympathy for you, especially given your condescending tone. The crux of the issue is that you want in, and you feel bitter about it. Other people here seem to have a much healthier attitude.

 

EBF and Nymph, you have some good points. Being judged based on a subjective factor like attractiveness can be tough medicine. But in reality it happens every day. Not everyone is going to find you physically attractive. But so what? Rejection, for whatever reason, comes hand in hand with pursuing sex partners. It's happened to all of us, especially those of us who have spent substantial time in the dating world. Like I said before, the existence of screened play parties can only add to the pool of swingers who might go on to try other things.

[Alura 2,771]

Quote

Originally posted by thekolonel

So "protecting" yourself by never interacting with anyone under 25 is pure idiocy.

 

I'm going to take exception to your use of the phrase, "is pure idiocy," Kolonel. Not only is such a remark inconsistent with the demeanor of this board, it's non-productive and it's downright insulting to a person who has shown intelligence and a caring attitude in his posts. Ted has been very kind in his response to your postings, some of which some of us might find less than well thought-out.

[yawanna 17]

Quote

Like I said before, the existence of screened play parties can only add to the pool of swingers who might go on to try other things.

 

m'kay.... SO....I, as a person deemed 'attractive' enough for the invitation only after club party pay an entry fee and byob...may at some point do what.....attend a swinger club that my first club deems full of unattractives? I truly can't see that happening if I've applied to and been accepted by an elitist and yes discriminatory group. You can bet grandma that the discussions and conversations will NOT be about variety in the swinger community. It will be about how they are the cream of the crop and thank GAWD they all found each other.

 

I have no issues with people posting personal ads looking for certain qualities like 8" or big tits, or even ads that state fit and attractive only .... we don't respond...easy squeezy. Nothing wrong with asking for what you want, one on one. Making it a community wide 'thing' isn't kewl. What I DO have an issue with is an organized swinger event that is restricted to only people the organizers deem 'attractive' enough. They give an age range and they state height and weight proportionate. People have to apply and send in full body pics. It doesn't end there though.. no sir. They then have to be personally interviewed, so there is an unknown element of 'attractiveness' that will be determined only by the organizers.

 

I just see white sheets and hoods and segregation in the swinger community. Never a good thing.

[2New2it 19]

They have all the right in the world to limit their invitiations to those they deem beautiful.

 

I'd have no interest in applying and in my opinion, the shallow deserve each other.

[thekolonel 15]

Originally posted by Alura

I'm going to take exception to your use of the phrase, "is pure idiocy," Kolonel. Not only is such a remark inconsistent with the demeanor of this board, it's non-productive and it's downright insulting to a person who has shown intelligence and a caring attitude in his posts. Ted has been very kind in his response to your postings, some of which some of us might find less than well thought-out.

 

Ted has been "kind"?

 

Let me get this straight, Alura. It's okay for Ted to use phrases like "get a life" and "anyone who thinks X must be stupid" but it's not okay for me to think something is pure idiocy? Ted's telling me I'm a bigot, to get a life, that I'm just afraid of getting older, that I'm stupid to date people under 25 and generally implying I'm an idiot for having my beliefs. Yes, those are such PRODUCTIVE and WELL-THOUGHT-OUT responses to my postings. Ted was all over me from the point I expressed my simple preference. Show me where my posts have been anything BUT well-thought-out. Don't you dare come galloping in on your high-horse, bearing down on me with your selective outrage.

 

I haven't seen anyone but EBF and one or two others attempt to engage me in some real dialogue (and for that I am truly grateful). A lot of you just hate it--it really eats you up--that my preferences are different, and that there are others like me. Underlying the ostensibly polite discourse around here is a smugness, insularity and moral authority that prevents people from engaging issues like these with any substance. It's the same shallowness and elitism that many of you profess to be so afraid of.

 

Like I said in my last post, so what? It's someone's private sex party, not a voting booth. If I don't want to see you naked I have no obligation to invite you to a party. This isn't any different than throwing a sex party at my house and only inviting the people I am physically attracted to. If the other guests don't like my definition of attractiveness they have the right not to come.

 

And again, I think it is shameful that some people on here who enjoy relatively privileged lives are trying to conflate their quest for sexual gratification with some kind of civil rights movement. My father grew up black in the segregationist South. My mother's family was threatened by the Nazis. Don't try to feed me some bullshit about this being some great struggle for civil rights. It rings false and makes you sound small.

[yawanna 17]

My father grew up black in the segregationist South. My mother's family was threatened by the Nazis. Don't try to feed me some bullshit about this being some great struggle for civil rights. It rings false and makes you sound small.

 

you've just got a little bit of everything in ya, doncha

 

so how come you get to say

 

A lot of you just hate it--it really eats you up--that my preferences are different, and that there are others like me.

 

yet I don't get that same consideration from you.

 

, I think it is shameful that some people on here who enjoy relatively privileged lives are trying to conflate their quest for sexual gratification with some kind of civil rights movement.

 

gee... were you referring to MOI?? I don't live a privileged life, I am not on a 'quest for sexual gratification' and I'm sorry..... have we met??

 

If we can stop with the insults and outrage, I'd like to say that my concerns over this 'beautiful people only' organization is that it segregates people within the swinger community. As you say, no one is being forced to have sex with others, there is always choice. Well...up until this beautiful people only thing.

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by OhioCouple

This is one of those kind of subjects that can get people riled for mostly no reason. Goodness knows we have had several here regarding HWP, bi-sexuality---male and female, etc.

 

This is what I have learned in the two years of reading this board. It's different strokes for different folks. What I may not agree with, hundreds of others may. It is how I express myself and my beliefs that makes a difference. It's taken me quite a while to learn that and I still fail on occasion.

I wanted to quote myself on this first portiion of my post in this thread.

 

Let's face it ya'll. We all have preferences, expectations and most importantly, we have choices. We have the freedom to choose who we associate with, and who we don't prefer to. And just because it isn't right for you, doesn't mean that your way is the only way.

 

Please keep that in mind in your postings.

[Elusive BiFem 70]

Quote

Originally posted by OhioCouple

I wanted to quote myself on this first portiion of my post in this thread.

 

Let's face it ya'll. We all have preferences, expectations and most importantly, we have choices. We have the freedom to choose who we associate with, and who we don't prefer to. And just because it isn't right for you, doesn't mean that your way is the only way.

 

Please keep that in mind in your postings.

 

And to follow up on Ms. O's comments a little further...she notes preferences expectations, choices........but we all have opinions, too. Not a single one of us can be faulted for the opinion we own. It is ours. None of us need agree with others opinions, and there is nothing wrong with saying so. "I do not agree with your opinion and this is mine." Simple as that. We can arrive at as many different opinions as there are members of this Board.

 

But attempting to engage in heated debate and argument is fruitless, particularly when we allow those debates to become and to continue as personal issues between the debaters. In fact, the point of the original debate is often lost.

 

I've said it many times...I enjoy reading others opinions. I welcome their opinions. Sometimes I change my opinions partially or fully given new information. Sometimes I totally disagree with others opinions and I will say so. But I will always, I hope, allow them their opinion. And if I don't allow that, I expect to be called on it.

 

So why don't we kind of leave the arguments here? Not the opinions. Just the arguments. No one will ever win. "Choose your battles wisely."

[Nymph an' Satyr 22]

Originally posted by yawanna

What I DO have an issue with is an organized swinger event that is restricted to only people the organizers deem 'attractive' enough.

 

Yeah, this is what I find distatsteful about it too. There is a difference in being rejected by a couple and being rejected by an organization. But again, there's a good chance these aren't people that I would hang with anyway.

 

I would NOT equate this with a civil rights issue. BIG difference. Remember, we have the right of free association.

 

I say let the shallow sort themselves out, it leaves more people of substance (pun intended) for the rest of us

[thekolonel 15]

To preface this and show you guys I'm human too, my gf and I had a playdate scheduled for tomorrow with this woman (not the 21 yo). Seemed really sweet, the kind of person we'd want to become friends with. Well, she just ended this self-improvement seminar this week and committed to telling the truth. Calls my gf tonite and says she doesn't want to play because she's not physically attracted to me. So yeah, it happens to me too. It sucks when you get rejected over your looks, but it happens to just about everyone. I guess this is why I don't understand how some of you can be so shocked and upset over the "beautiful people" events.

 

Yawanna, actually, most of my crankiness over the "segregation" thing is directed at Ted, who felt the need to bring up the issue of bigotry in an attempt to paint me as the devil. If people stop attacking me personally (and that means no more thinly veiled insults like "you cant believe that, because if you do you must be stupid and I know you're not stupid") over what I believe I'll be happy to end the outrage. But right now it's apparently :slam" on me time and as such I'm not going to pull punches.

 

I know what you are getting at, Y, but perhaps there are better words for it than sheets and hoods. That doesn't seem like a fair comparison since swinging, while great and all that, isn't nearly as important as, say, being able to walk down the street without getting lynched. This comparison just strikes me as being in poor taste.

 

And, Y, if there weren't a quest for sexual gratification involved it wouldn't be swinging, it would be a sewing circle. I know there's more to it than genitals rubbing together but it is play (looked at versus polyamory anyway) and play ain't that serious. Again, just drawing a contrast between having the right to attend a particular sex party and having the right to be served at your local Red Lobster.

 

Yeah, in the end its about choice. And if these "beautiful" people choose to stick together, well, then that's their choice. I'm sure you're not actually missing out on much, nor are they.

[yawanna 17]

Quote

I know what you are getting at, Y, but perhaps there are better words for it than sheets and hoods.

 

maybe there are, and those are the words I chose because that's the way I see it.

 

Rejection is all part of swinging...No means No. Ask people if they want to play with you, they can say No. Take that a step further and make an assumption that there is an untapped market of attractive people with $$ to be taken. Now you could be rejected by an entire group

 

Because the organizers don't consider you 'attractive'... you never even get to meet the other people and be rejected one on one

 

My original post was 'is this swinging?' and I don't think it is because it limits choice and options. If beautiful people want to get together, there's a LONG history of informal groups that meet via clubs, ads, word of mouth and they meet on a regular basis.

 

I guess it's just that it was never flat out stated before. You went to clubs or events and if people were interested, they invited you back to the hotel or their home, or arranged to meet later. It's just so blatantly discriminatory to say 'attractive' people only as who's to say what different people will find attractive.. NO...you have to be personally interviewed and arbitrarily deemed attractive, or not.

 

It just seems to be an attempt at some sort of hierarchy within swinging, whereas before, swinging was about openness, and honesty, and free will and diversity, choices and options.

 

If this 'beautiful' people only shit takes root, I think swinging is in a lot of trouble.

[Alura 2,771]

Quote

Originally posted by thekolonel

Ted has been "kind"?

 

Let me get this straight, Alura. It's okay for Ted to use phrases like "get a life" and "anyone who thinks X must be stupid" but it's not okay for me to think something is pure idiocy? Ted's telling me I'm a bigot, to get a life, that I'm just afraid of getting older, that I'm stupid to date people under 25 and generally implying I'm an idiot for having my beliefs. Yes, those are such PRODUCTIVE and WELL-THOUGHT-OUT responses to my postings. Ted was all over me from the point I expressed my simple preference. Show me where my posts have been anything BUT well-thought-out. Don't you dare come galloping in on your high-horse, bearing down on me with your selective outrage.

 

I have to stick to my guns on this one, Kolonel. I just went back and re-read Ted's remarks. Except for the "get a life" quote, you've consistently misrepresented what he actually wrote.

 

Big'ot, n. One who holds irrespective of reason, & attaches disproportionate weight to, some creed or view.

 

My understanding of Ted's opinion is that there is little difference between refusing service to someone because they are not "pretty" and doing so because they are not white. For many years in the United States, restaurants posted signs that read, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" and used that for justification to not serve African-Americans (and often Native-Americans). There's no law against refusing service to people who are not pretty but that doesn't erase the bigotry.

 

Frankly, my wife and I think clubs are a waste of time and would never go to one to have sex with strangers, no matter how pretty they might be. I don't know why I bothered to post on this thread. Maybe I'll go back and read my first post to see if I can remember, maybe not.

 

Your personal preferences are not germane to a discussion about whether or not only pretty people should be admitted to a club.

 

Thanks for the "high-horse" metaphor. It reminds me of a day long ago when some of my distant cousins "galloped in" on another pretty Colonel, also known for his bigotry.

 

"Selective"? No, I don't think so. "Outrage"? No, not even that.

 

 

[impishcpl 15]

I just started reading this post and was amazed to see some of the animosity here!! Sigh... I have to admit that when I first read the article in Playboy about "exclusive swinging clubs, for attractive people only" I was super upset! I have to say now, after having thought it over and talking with my friends, well, it comes down to choice!

 

If you want to go to one of those clubs...GO... all the more power to you! If you don't, DON'T and again, all the more power to you. I personally know I would never be admitted to one of those kinds of clubs... It would definitely hurt my feelings because I didn't live up to a certain criteria of being attractive, but then my thoughts moved to... Well, I am still a special person and very likable (I hope anyways...lol) and that is okay...I will meet someone somewhere and have fun...they don't have to be super attractive, or super ugly or super old, or super young...they just have to be someone I like!!! And that is what playing comes down to...

 

Kolonel... chill K? Ted seems like he has been in this lifestyle for awhile...I think he was just trying to tell you what his feelings were, and wasn't taking a direct hit at you...It might have seemed that way, but really... I just saw it as kind of advice... that was all...This board, (and really, I have been on it very very shortly) is for information and help. It seems to me that this thread was about whether or not should someone go to one of these clubs and somehow it got off course.

 

So perhaps the answer is... Do you want to try and see what this club is about? Do it! If you feel it is what you want...enjoy, have fun... Not all attractive people are about their looks, I have met many that are fun and enjoy life and are curious...Nobody is different I guess what I am trying to say...Turn us all inside out and you have the same thing...

 

K...I am done

 

Female half of impishcpl