"Beautiful People Only!" Swing Clubs/Groups

[DevilzAdvokit 15]

You may have painted "The Kolonel" as the the devil but I am "The Devil". And the Devil says....

 

People have the right to be as discriminating as they want to be when it comes to their sex lives. If I only want to have sex with people so physically specific that I should be attending therapy for that predilection it is my God given right to do so and it is not your job to pass judgement on me for the specific criteria I place on my bedfellows. And by being so disapproving of these individuals for choosing to be specifically selective you are actually guilty of what you are accusing them of being.....JUDGEMENTAL!!!!! My bedroom is certainly not an equal opportunity workplace. Nor should yours be either.

 

It's like me getting upset and thinking its unfair because I can't play for the Lakers. If you think such a club would be distasteful then do not attend it. Face it.... Most people end up with people within a certain range of their own looks category. So if you are Height/Weight proportionate/Fit, are of above ave. looks and are 25yrs old chances are that you are not going to want to have sex with someone your fathers age, 265lbs. and facially unattractive. So whats wrong with having a place you can go to to meet others who would be in your own dating league(we all have one to some extent) if you fit the criteria I mentioned earlier instead of spending half your evening fending off people you would never consider sleeping with in a million years no matter how nice they were. If you only like extremely large people and find people who are thin unattractive then wouldn't it be nice to be able to go somewhere where you didn't have to weed through a bunch of anorexics and it attracted exactly the type of individuals that you would be interested in? And no matter how much you want to talk about making friends and meeting all sorts of people, sexual attraction is still the driving force behind swinging. And lets face it.... Aesthetics play an enormous role in sexual attraction.Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the beholder is allowed to be as picky as he damn well pleases.

[thekolonel 15]

Gotta agree with the Devil. Why should I drop good money to go to an open club and weed through all these people I'm not interested in seeing naked when I can go to a screened club and be sure that many of the people are at least physically appealing to me and in my desired age range? It's like having a party attended by all the people who already fit some of your desired criteria through the personals. Why waste time? Especially if I have to be in the same venue as these people when I'm having sex. Forcing me to be in a situation I don't want to be in because of some principle of openness is insanity.

 

Impishcpl, you, like a few of the others, have a healthy viewpoint. I read that Playboy article and felt exactly the same way you did. Then I went to a couple of the parties the author mentioned and realized they are not *that* exclusive. It's just media hype.

 

Alura, Ted was condescending. Period. It's one thing to attack ideas. It's another thing to say people are stupid for holding them. He fired the first volley when I was trying to be reasonable with him. If you cannot see that it is because of your own bias toward his viewpoint. Your definition of bigot fits him pretty well, as he is irrationally attached to the viewpoint that I am not free to associate sexually with people I find attractive. And the restaurant analogy is weak. You aren't forced to see your fellow restaurant patrons naked. Incidentally, the question was, "would you go", not "should people be admitted". So my personal preferences are, indeed, germane to the discussion. Re-read my original post. It was about *my* preferences. I wasn't telling anyone else what to do with their lives. Thanks again for your highly objective analysis.

 

Yawanna, it's better to be rejected by the organizers up-front than drop cash on a party where the vast majority of the people in attendance won't be interested in you. Seems like it would save a lot of trouble in the long run. At least you have a better understanding of what you're getting yourself into. Yeah, there's a long history of informal groups. Why not let them host parties for their particular subset? It's only a hierarchy if you attach yourself to the notion that younger and skinnier people are somehow "better" than you are. In reality it's just a sexual preference.

[Alura 2,773]

Quote

Originally posted by thekolonel

Your definition of bigot...

It's not my definition, Kolonel. I should have given credit to The Concise Oxford Dictionary. Sorry for the omission.

 

Quote

,,,fits him pretty well, as he is irrationally attached to the viewpoint that I am not free to associate sexually with people I find attractive.

 

I don't believe anyone, myself included, has suggested you are not free to have sex with anyone you find attractive. By the same token, no one has suggested you must have sex with someone you find unattractive.

 

Quote

Incidentally, the question was, "would you go", not "should people be admitted".

 

You're right. The former was the original question but, as is often the case in these forums, the focus soon changed to the latter. We would not go, therefore, we don't personally care if people are excluded. We think they would be lucky. Still, to suggest exclusion is not bigotry, albeit a much milder form than racial bigotry, we believe is incorrect.

 

Y'all have fun, y'heah?

[yawanna 17]

The original query was:

 

Quote

What do you think about this type of swinger event? IS it a swinger event if age and looks are the criteria?

 

I gather that responders feel that this IS swinging and event organizers have a right to charge admission and screen participants based on any criteria they choose. Those who disagree with this type of event or practice, can choose not to apply or attend.

 

Does that about sum it up?

 

And... thank you thank you to all who shared their thoughts and opinions, dissenting or not

[bear_n_bunny 43]

A most interesting thread....

 

As to the original question, would you attend such a party? I have, once, and would not do it again, and here is the reason why.

 

This was the very first party I ever attended (and it was with someone I swung (swinged? whatever) with for about a year and a half subsequent to this. The hosts did the screening bit, although nothing was said about it being based on looks. However, at the party we turned out to be in a distinct minority, to wit, we were not twenty-or-thirtysomething Barbie and Ken clones, which about 80% of the attendees were.

 

I always wondered if they made a mistake, even though we had sent them current pictures as part of the screening process.

 

I would never dispute the right of any private group to be selective about who they admit (this is why I have no problem whatsoever with the Boy Scouts excluding gays from their organization).

 

But having attended such a group, whether by accident or not, I learned a few things about the "beautiful people", by listening to their conversations and observing how they interacted with others. Essentially, I learned that these people are for the most part:

 

1. very shallow

2. very self-centered

3. inconsiderate

4. not very bright

5. and younger people, regardless of looks, are lousy lays

 

Now I will be the first to say that physical attraction is highly subjective, and that "likes attract" in this context. And I'm glad I did attend this one party, because of what it taught me about "class distinctions" as it applies to physical appearance.

 

But the bottom line is that, even if they BEGGED me to join one of their groups (yeah, never happen, but this is purely hypothetical), I would not because of the reasons listed above.

 

I've had orders of magnitude more fun at parties where the attendees were simply chosen on the basis of a dress code and an assumed ability to behave properly in large groups. What was particularly interesting was that the Barbie and Ken clones who attended parties like this (maybe they made a mistake and just walked in the wrong door... tended to behave far better than at the party where they were in a clear majority.

 

But at parties like this, the conversation was generally more intelligent and interesting, the manners displayed more pleasant (just because you have no intention of playing with a person, does not mean you have to treat them like a dog who just peed all over your new carpet just because they dared to try and strike up a conversation with you), etc. Oh, yeah, and the sex was much better, too...

 

No, give me a venue where all shapes, sizes and ages are represented any time. Much, much more fun...

[DevilzAdvokit 15]

It doesn't take a psychology major to ascertain that your disdain is founded in envy. We often resent what we wish we were ourselves.What you've posted is what you must tell yourself in order for you to not suffer from feelings of inadequacy in a sexually competitive environment.

 

Aesthetics,intellect, and sexual prowess couldn't possibly exist within the same entity for that would possibly render me an inferior specimen in the proverbial sexual food chain.

 

People often construe blanket derogatory beliefs and hold contempt for what they can not attain but covet so.

 

My wife and I have played with people several years our senior who were sexually inept and people younger than us who were gifted beyond their years.

 

My wife and I are both young, fit, and extremely attractive. Probably even in the top half of the Barbie and Ken category.

 

We are also both MENSA members.

 

So keep in mind when you consider stereotyping and criticizing those younger and more attractive than yourself that they may be your sexual and intellectual superior as well.

 

I bid you farewell my green eyed mammalian friends.

[rickpen 16]

I know I haven't been here very long and I hope I don't piss anybody off.....but....I think Jerry Falwell and several other REAL bigots would be clapping their hands (and whatever else they can get together) over this "flap". The thing I like best about reading these postings is the generally non-judgmental comments.

 

My wife and I are 52 and 50 respectively, that being said, we believe that beauty comes from within....we believe that anybody who has a standard of beauty does it from a sense of insecurity: i.e. "I'm very pretty but don't look for anything else!!"

 

However, one thing that is as sure as taxes....everybody ages!! The very people who cull all of us "non-beautiful" people will be fighting for the cause in a few years!!

 

Again, that being said, I can allow them their opinion as I am sure that others have allowed me mine in the last 50 years.

 

This site is a blessing to people of our "persuasion", I know I'm just a newcomer and please don't think I presume to "correct" anybody but the phrase "Divide and Conquer" comes to mind.

[wcplnsac 15]

I never once said that someone was stupid, or anything else. I said "IN MY OPINION, THE IDEA OF SOMEONE DOING SOMETHING WAS STUPID OR THAT THE IDEAS WERE BIGOTRY" meaning that their thoughts to me, were bigotry or their actions were stupid not that they were in general bigots or that they were just plain stupid. In fact I even tried to give the kolonel the benefit of the doubt and told him that I really didn't think he was stupid or a bigot and believed him better than that. Okay, I now pray that I am right but so far some people have told me I was wrong. I still haven't made that judgement but have made the judgement that he needs to grow up and accept it when someone disagrees with him and calls his ideas stupid. He did on the other hand call me names and I do take offense to that which is why I made the judgement that he needs to grow up.

 

Now that I have said this, I want to make one thing clear......I would not go to a club that screens because I do not believe in bigotry, I don't believe in giving my right to decide away to anyone at any time for any reason, and I certainly wouldn't pay someone to take my rights away. After all this is America not China and not the old East Germany or old Russia where someone always has the right to tell you what to do, say, or think! So if you want to go and let someone decide on what you see or who you party with then be my guest after all it is your own freedoms your paying to have taken away. ENJOY!!!!

 

Ted

[Nymph an' Satyr 22]

Originally posted by DevilzAdvokit

My wife and I are both young, fit, and extremely attractive. Probably even in the top half of the Barbie and Ken category.

We are also both MENSA members.

 

Such unmitigated modesty. Oh how do you contain yourself? Pray, do tell.

[saranmark 15]

Okay. Enough.

 

Can't you just agree to disagree now? Do you really have to keep arguing? I think we are all aware of the viewpoints of the two involved in this "tiff". Kolonel and Ted, we all appreciate your opinions, but I for one, am weary of reading your argument.

 

We all have our own opinions. This is mine: The club has the right to select whomever they wish to enter. Anyone has the right to not enter the club's party.

 

I resent generalistic views-- no matter what they are, or who they concern.

 

I just celebrated my 28th birthday this week. I am tall, thin, and sexy! I am certain that I would be allowed entry into this selective party, as well as my husband- who is beautiful. Does that mean that I would go? Probably not.

Am I shallow? Nope.

Am I self-centered? No way!

Am I inconsiderate? I am probably one of the most considerate people you will ever meet.

I also happen to be extremely intelligent, and a KICK-ASS lay!

 

I don't agree that the people condemning this Club or "Beautiful people" are all suffering from the green-eyed monster. I think that they have probably had bad experiences with shallow people.

 

However, please keep in mind that you cannot lump us all together. Your experience with a shallow, inconsiderate person should not be your automatic perception of me, simply because I am physically similar to them!

 

Just my opinion...

SARA

[saranmark 15]

I should probably add, in view of Nymph's above post:

 

I am honestly not being conceited with my post. I had nothing to do with my physical appearance-- God and my mama were responsible for that. I am much prouder of my inside being beautiful than my outside.

 

I am simply saying that none of us can take credit for the way we look on the outside. We all have to take responsibility for the people we are on the inside, and give EVERY individual the opportunity to reveal who they are, not who they APPEAR to be.

 

Have a wonderful holiday!

SARA

[thekolonel 15]

Originally posted by wcplnsac

[H]e needs to grow up and accept it when someone disagrees with him and calls his ideas stupid. He did on the other hand call me names and I do take offense to that which is why I made the judgement that he needs to grow up.

 

Okay, a little exercise here. If you or anyone else can show me where exactly I called you names or did anything other than come down on your ideas and your attitude towards me I will gladly apologize. I'm willing to put down money that no one will find anything. Yet all I'm hearing from you are "grow up" and "get a life". If you have a problem with me take it somewhere else.

 

As sara pointed out, all I've seen in this thread are negative attitudes directed at younger and/or physically attractive swingers. I think it's all a sad sort of psychological defense mechanism. They aren't interested in me, the thinking goes, so they must be worthless individuals. This comes through quite clearly in bear's posts.

[yawanna 17]

all I've seen in this thread are negative attitudes directed at younger and/or physically attractive swingers. I think it's all a sad sort of psychological defense mechanism. They aren't interested in me, the thinking goes, so they must be worthless individuals. This comes through quite clearly in bear's posts.

 

I couldn't have PAID to get these responses needed that show just how divisive and NON swinger a 'beautiful people only' event is.

 

Saying and organizing events for attractive people only is most definitely a negative attitude directed at everyone else. You don't want to play with certain people, you don't have to. It's this trend of segregation and intolerance that is annoying me, this 'let's set up our OWN club' of pitting one group, those arbitrarily deemed 'attractive' against everyone else, because that's what it does...this thread is an example. It's narrow minded, an attempt at elitism, and discriminatory and if it happened behind the scenes, rather than promoted by swinger clubs, we wouldn't care because it DOES happen informally and therefore isn't in your face offensive. Swinging is looking to find people to have sex with that you are also comfortable with in other ways. I don't know about some of you husbands, but mine won't let just any guy be with me, you have to talk at least a little so you know he's going to be respectful and there won't be any bad fallout.

 

In all kinds of other threads on this board, it's stated over and over again that swinging is all about choice, respect, and diversity in yes, choosing people to be sexual with.

 

So one organizer promotes, with the support of clubs, an after club private party for 'attractive people only'. And look where that takes us all.... what are we at here, 7 pages? And the key issues stay at 'we're attractive and could get in, but we won't go'..."we're attractive and WILL go cause we want to be with only other attractive people for play'.... and..... 'we won't go because we don't want to be with people who care mostly about looks".

 

You don't hear anyone bitching that BDSM clubs are discriminatory, do you? If I want to wear leather and get paddled I can go or not. I just have to want to participate in that venue and I can make that choice because it's very clear to me, or at least I can learn, what exactly BDSM involves. Where would I find out exactly what 'attractive' includes? I can tell you another thing, the Beautiful People Only event organizers posted their pics and I gotta say... they don't get me all wound up like Roger Rabbit looking at Jessica and going 'aWOOOOOOGGAAAA!!!"

 

 

I don't find them any more or less attractive than most people - but then again, that's just my opinion.

[thekolonel 15]

I couldn't have PAID to get these responses needed that show just how divisive and NON swinger a 'beautiful people only' event is.

 

Saying and organizing events for attractive people only is most definitely a negative attitude directed at everyone else. You don't want to play with certain people, you don't have to.

 

It's only divisive because some people want in, for whatever reason, and complain about it. If you are truly happy with your swing circle there's no reason to be upset.

 

For me, going to these events is not about negative attitude. It is about wanting to get the most out of my investment in terms of time and money. Yes, it's MY time and MY money. I have nothing against people who feel they wouldn't make the cut. It's just that, in all likelihood, I wouldn't find them physically attractive.

 

I saw a post where someone described walking into a club and finding to her dismay that the majority of the patrons were "morbidly obese". This is the sort of thing that some people would just as soon avoid. It may be painful for some people to hear things like this, but sex, even swinger sex, is a very personal thing.

 

The bottom line is that if screened events didn't exist there would be few, if any, places where I could go and be reasonably sure I'd be comfortable in that environment. And if you're new to the scene like I was a little while back, you lack those informal networks that might lead you to groups of like-minded people.

[yawanna 17]

Quote

It's only divisive because some people want in, for whatever reason, and complain about it. If you are truly happy with your swing circle there's no reason to be upset.

 

I am getting SO tired of some missing the point (ignoring?) to speak about how attractive they are and how ugly we are and dumb..they are mensa...blah blah blah.

 

The point I'm trying to make which has yet to be even seen let alone noted or responded to by these smart beautiful posters is this.....

 

even OFFERING a club to beautiful people only is an attack on those people who don't consider themselves attractive, who don't fancy themselves as attractive, who are attractive but don't think that is the be all and all of attracting partners.

 

Quite frankly....I think you all should create your own club of intolerant, mensa, bodybuilders, blessed with good looks. Because if I talked to you in a club...I'd walk a mile to get away from y'all. And guess what.. I'm smart and gorgeous and can't abide snobs.

 

P.S. I will definitely do a follow up posting, when these snobs finally stomp off in a huff.. of just how this beautiful people after club fails...because it surely will.

[Nymph an' Satyr 22]

And as far as attractive people go....well, God love 'em. There is no crime in being smart or being beautiful.

 

I can think of one particularly attractive woman that I work with. She is doubly attractive to me because of her attitude. She does not think of herself as beautiful, though she surely is. She is quite modest, and it is rather fetching.

 

There is no crime in being attractive or being smart. Arrogance however, is pretty lame. And beautiful people clubs are simply arrogant. But I would not deny them the right to freely associate with one another. Nor do I think it is discriminatory- in a civil rights kind of way.

 

Let them do what they want to do- I could care less. We have plenty of partners to choose from

[thekolonel 15]

I am getting SO tired of some missing the point (ignoring?) to speak about how attractive they are and how ugly we are and dumb..they are mensa...blah blah blah.

 

I haven't said anything about my looks nor bragged about my intelligence, but I do take exception to the notion that young attractive people are automatically shallow, unintelligent snobs. And I think DA was just sticking up for himself in light of bear's negative generalizations.

 

The point I'm trying to make which has yet to be even seen let alone noted or responded to by these smart beautiful posters is this.....

 

even OFFERING a club to beautiful people only is an attack on those people who don't consider themselves attractive, who don't fancy themselves as attractive, who are attractive but don't think that is the be all and all of attracting partners.

 

Um, I have already addressed this notion a few times in a few different ways. Think about it this way. If I throw a play party at my house and decide only to invite those who I deem physically appealing I'm sure everyone would agree it is my choice to do so and doesn't infringe on anyone else's choice to do as they please. In fact, some people might even find out about my little party and be miffed that they didn't get an invite, but still, who can argue that I am somehow morally obligated to invite them? It's my party, right? And I'll cry if I want to, as the song goes. Now suppose, further, that I place a personal ad mentioning I'm throwing this party and that I'm looking for barely-legal swimsuit models or whatever. Still my private individual choice as a swinger, right? Certainly not an attack on anyone.

 

So how's this any different than me deciding I want to rent out a place for the night and fill it with people of my choosing, handing out a flyer with my requirements rather than posting a personals ad? It's still my party, after all. How is this suddenly transformed into an affront to swingerdom?

 

This is the crux of the issue, and thus far no one from the anti-beauty camp has put forth a logical explanation as to how the former scenario can be considered a perfectly reasonable individual choice and the latter an attack on humanity.

 

Quite frankly....I think you all should create your own club of intolerant, mensa, bodybuilders, blessed with good looks. Because if I talked to you in a club...I'd walk a mile to get away from y'all. And guess what.. I'm smart and gorgeous and can't abide snobs.

 

Hmmm... who's sounding intolerant now? If you met me at a club I'd hope you'd at least treat me with respect, but alas, that seems to be too much to ask for around here. Yeah, I'm a snob. A bodybuilder. I'm applying for my mensa membership as write this. Tomorrow I'm having my picture taken for GQ. I'm part of a sinister cabal named "Ban Teh Uglees". We meet by firelight and sacrifice virgins. I also abuse small animals, including several on the endangered species list. Whatever psychological defense mechanism helps you sleep, Y.

 

P.S. I will definitely do a follow up posting, when these snobs finally stomp off in a huff.. of just how this beautfiul people after club fails...because it surely will.

 

I wouldn't ever pray for someone else's party to fail because, quite simply, I'm satisfied with my own. Which again gets at the core of my suspicions about some of the naysayers; lacking true contentment in their own swinging activities they attack those who they suspect are having a better time of it.

 

I'm quite sure there are a ton of parties going on which wouldn't have me on the guest list for whatever reason. But you know what? I hope they're having fun.

[wcplnsac 15]

To steal a bit of a phrase form a very good movie if you will forgive me this transgression.

 

There are a lot more of us average people than you "BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE" in this world so you better watch out. We will conquer.

[yawanna 17]

For a private party sponsored by an individual, invite only midgets in wheelchairs for all I care. NASCA members, clubs, are supposed to promote the general swinging community.

 

NASCA and their members, the clubs, are supposed to be Equal Opportunity.

 

I respect this board and the majority of posters. I find that they promote swinging in a healthy, respectful, supportive manner and this is what I expect from the swinger community. People are encouraged to explore all that is offered and the underlying message is that they will find a club or activity or other people they feel comfy with and vice versa. Kind of hard to explore, and very much IMHO goes against a swinger ethic, to have some swinger clubs and their events closed to you by something as arbitrary as 'attractiveness' and to have to subject yourself to an application and a personal interview to assess only your 'attractiveness'.

 

I don't care that I could pass the interview and attend. I wouldn't attend or apply and in fact the reason I posted to this message board is I wanted to hear what other swingers think about it.

 

I think it's elitist and classist that a club is offering this 'service for swingers' (at a price of course...it is a business after all) and divides the swinger community. And I don't think that's a good thing.

[DevilzAdvokit 15]

So many so threatened. The fact is that you wouldn't be so bothered by clubs that catered to specific groups if you didn't didn't feel inadequate and slighted yourself in some fashion. Why would you if this was not the case? I personally don't care what type of clubs exist for specific groups of people. Even if I would be excluded from them based on some criteria.

 

Because I feel okay about myself. Because some group wants something that I'm not doesn't diminish my worth. If it didn't diminish your self worth in some fashion you wouldn't have become so venomous over this subject. If the truth were to be known I dont even go to clubs. But I support the right for any type of club to exist that wishes to as long as what goes on is between consenting adults. The people you should be making smartass cracks about are those who have attempted to defile an entire group with a derogatory stereotype. I have merely defended them. I haven't made one negative statement about any group based on physical or intellectual attributes. Have you ever experienced an argument where the opposing side is so busy trying to come up with what they are going to say they miss what their opponent has said altogether. I feel this is exactly the case here. I certainly didn't come here to slight others intellect or aesthetics.Nor did I. And I would love for someone to show me where in my posts I did so. I only supported the right for such a club to exist. I certainly wasn't the one who insulted an entire group of people and stereotyped all of them in such a derogatory sense.

 

I merely defended myself. Think about it people!! If I had attacked the overweight and their right to have a big and beautiful club and had questioned their intellect, sexual prowess, and decency as human beings based on their physical attributes, What kind of response do you think I would have received? But it's okay to say what ever and the hell you want to about someone because they are fit and attractive. Their not real people after all. Why else would they referred to as plastic toys by Mattel if they were?

[yawanna 17]

Why does it bother YOU so much?

 

Facts not subterfuge Sir.

 

Look... over there...OMG is it? Can it be? Why my goodness I do believe that was a FACT ... oh.... rats.... you missed it

 

 

and now... watch me pull a soapbox out from under him.....

 

*whip* *thud*

[thekolonel 15]

For a private party sponsored by an individual, invite only midgets in wheelchairs for all I care. NASCA members, clubs, are supposed to promote the general swinging community. NASCA and their members, the clubs, are supposed to be Equal Opportunity.

 

What NASCA actually says:

 

EOLO following a listing means that the club is an Equal Opportunity Lifestyle Organization. ... NASCA and Affiliates have adopted this designation as a means of telling potential members and visitors that the club or publication is open to all races and nationalities.

 

Note that this is 1) a totally optional part of being a NASCA affiliate and 2) EOLO in no way refers to age or looks. Just a point of order.

 

NASCA is opposed to race and national origin discrimination by swing organizations. At the same time, we uphold the right of a swing organization to operate in a manner of their choosing, provided that they make known to potential members/participants their policies. In other words, NASCA asks that such organizations be "upfront" with their policies so as to avoid embarrassment and discomfort for any person answering their ad.

 

So in other words, yes, you can have your midget party as long as you are upfront about your door policy. Sounds reasonable to me.

 

Kind of hard to explore, and very much IMHO goes against a swinger ethic, to have some swinger clubs and their events closed to you by something as arbitrary as 'attractiveness' and to have to subject yourself to an application and a personal interview to assess only your 'attractiveness'.

 

I think it's elitist and classist that a club is offering this 'service for swingers' (at a price of course...it is a business after all) and divides the swinger community. And I don't think that's a good thing.

 

Well, then, fine. I can respect your opinion even though I might not share it. All I can say is I feel a little put off because I came to this message board to hopefully learn some things, and now I feel like I'm being damned for swinging the "wrong" way. I thought it wasn't about that. Anyone who thinks I went to any of these "exclusive" parties out of some sense of superiority or snobbishness is dead wrong. A friend simply said, "hey get in touch with so-and-so, you'll enjoy the parties." I didn't want to waste time on the big clubs I had heard so many bad things about, and being used to living in a city where there are velvet ropes guarding just about everything I didn't think twice about the attractiveness caveat.

 

So yes, Y, I do "dig" what you are saying, and I am open-minded about many things, but I feel like I have been backed into a hard-line position by certain fools who would paint everyone my age with the same predjudicial brush. If you guys would focus more on having an open, honest exchange with me as individuals rather than reflexively circling the wagons I think there are some ways we could bridge the divide.

[yawanna 17]

If you guys would focus more on having an open, honest exchange with me as individuals rather than reflexively circling the wagons I think there are some ways we could bridge the divide.

 

Absolutely! But no one circled their wagons, seriously.....

 

It's a controversial topic, yes.....calling in all kinds of issues.

 

As for NASCA information, I won't counter respond with quotes from there because, one has to obtain their permission before posting information from their site onto other sites, and I didn't make that request. I remember reading what you shared, and I read more about it being for all types of people, a place for everyone, and the promotion of swinging in general, not just for pretty people.

 

Something else I don't 'get' about this attractive qualifier to attend a club's event, is..... why are we all supposed to just say 'no thanks' and be polite and not hurt anyone's feelings on a one to one level..... but when it comes to the business end of swinging, feelings and being discriminatory doesn't matter. "You're too heavy for your height...you can't give us your money and attend."

 

I think that blows chunks and I've been watching that trend of superficiality take over a few clubs here. Sometimes it comes from the club, like this attractive people only sub club, sometimes it comes from attendees. It's hypocritocal because swinging is touted as all sizes and ages are welcome and everyone can find their niche.

 

But how would YOU feel if you were met with 'no fat ugly people' (trust me, that's a quote). It's hard enough to get started in this without having other major hurdles and attacks thrown at you.

 

Maybe I'm the only one trying to keep discrimination out of swinging.....but....I'm usually made party to those comments about others by others, and I always give them a 'look' and walk away. Everyone has at least one shortcoming below 'perfection' and in five years I've held to the belief that swinging is open to anyone with a good attitude and in the case of couples, good relationships. If it's not for them, they'll figure it out, or work past it. They'll also eventually find their own group of friends and grow from there. But they should all at least have the chance?

 

If I'm wrong, and swinging is definitely subdivided into predetermined groups and cliques and you need to know a password or have a key to participate, and this openness is just shit, I'd appreciate knowing that and I suspect so would anyone new to this.

[saranmark 15]

Okay, guys. Nothing constructive is coming from all of this animosity and arguing. I think everyone has voiced their opinion, and everyone has been heard.

 

I think it is time to agree to disagree-- and stop bickering. We are all intelligent adults, and we should concede to respect each other's views, even if we don't agree.

 

Best,

SARA

[Elusive BiFem 70]

Quote

Originally posted by saranmark

I think it is time to agree to disagree-- and stop bickering. We are all intelligent adults, and we should concede to respect each other's views, even if we don't agree.

 

Best,

SARA

 

And I absolutely second the motion that SARA has just made. This entire thing is a no-win situation because it is based on opinions. I have mine. You have yours. Someone's opinion cannot be wrong because it is theirs. While opinions may vary, I think we all have something to learn from reading others if we will only allow ourselves a little room to digest them.

 

Thank you SARA for introducing a motion to cease fire.

[DevilzAdvokit 15]

As always the ladies are right. You know us guys are like a dog with a bone sometimes. But you can't say it didn't have its entertainment value at points. A little dissent goes a long way. I'll be nice now.

[thekolonel 15]

Originally posted by yawanna

As for NASCA information, I won't counter respond with quotes from there because, one has to obtain their permission before posting information from their site onto other sites...

 

I could be wrong, but I believe posting attributed excerpts of material put up for public consumption is governed under fair use, like quoting part of a book or article. At any rate I encourage people to go look for themselves.

 

But how would YOU feel if you were met with 'no fat ugly people' (trust me, that's a quote). It's hard enough to get started in this without having other major hurdles and attacks thrown at you.

 

I agree that there's no reason for people to be rude. It's one thing to openly state your requirements and it's another thing to rag on people who you feel do not fit them. To my knowledge, none of the events I have attended advertised anything along the lines of "no fat ugly people" and if I did see something like this I'd take my business elsewhere.

 

Maybe I'm the only one trying to keep discrimination out of swinging.....but....I'm usually made party to those comments about others by others, and I always give them a 'look' and walk away.

 

Yeah, I think it sucks that people develop such an attitude about it. I've overheard some rude comments, and I'm sure I've been the recipient of some rude comments. Hell, I'll admit that when I got into this I had some preconceived notions about swingers but as I learn more I'm beginning to shed some of my own biases.

 

If I'm wrong, and swinging is definitely subdivided into predetermined groups and cliques and you need to know a password or have a key to participate, and this openness is just shit, I'd appreciate knowing that and I suspect so would anyone new to this.

 

Honestly, Y, I don't know exactly what swinging is or should be. It is oft-said that if you ask ten swingers what swinging is you will get ten different answers. Sometimes I look at the way other people I know go about it and think they surely must be missing the point. But I'm still trying to figure out what I want to get out of all this myself.

[wolfmaiden 15]

Well I think this club should be avoided. Me personally think everyone is beautiful until proven ugly.

[Chicup 41]

Ummmm just found this thread today, when I could have offended people for a long time with it.

 

It is really to late to jump in, but I can't say I'd be offended by such a club. I'm OK looking, my wife is very good looking, we may well 'qualify' for such a club, and while I don't think we would be interested, I can understand there being an interest with it.

 

Perhaps it is because we are somewhat young swingers (though that changes a bit every day) we find a majority of the people to old/out of shape for us. We don't want to swing with people as old or almost as old as our parents, though there seems to be a lot of people who want to swing with someone as young as their kids

[Elusive BiFem 70]

Originally posted by yawanna

A devil's advocate is a person who advocates an opposing or bad cause for the sake of argument.

 

This is a message board, a discussion board, an everything BUT an argument board. I thought.

 

If this poster takes great pride in his nickname and arguing - why do we care? Don't respond and he can type away til the cows come home...no one cares. It'll all just go into that dead air we call the internet.

 

Just talk around him or about him but not 'to' him is what I'm suggesting.

 

Although... someone could always just fire up the chain saw and take care of that soap box once and for all

 

I agree, yawanna, for the most part, but this Board is a place to share opposing opinions and thoughts, too. That is how we all learn. It opens us up to new thoughts and ideas on a variety of subjects. And when delivered with a certain degree of tact, I greatly appreciate the opinions of any devil's advocate, and in fact, solicit opposing opinions.

 

However! I don't enjoy reading the posts when they become filled with hostility and anger, or simply argumentative - only because one opinion varies with another. That is what I said earlier. They are opinions and none are more right or wrong than others.

 

The other thing that really bothers me is the way new people might perceive this Board...saying for example they simply click on one of these hostile type threads as their first reading. WOW! For me, long ago, I may have thought, "These are a bunch of ranting wild people" and gone away forever. In fact, for a period of time, I very rarely visited the Board because it had become so filled with negative postings.

 

You made a good point...for posts that particularly anger or rile you...just ignore. Everyone gets tired of arguing with air. - EBF

[Elusive BiFem 70]

Originally posted by OhioCouple

Absolutely disgusting. If that is what this term means, it has no place on a swingers board, at least it MOST definitely DOES NOT apply to me or anyone else I've met or come to know.

 

Disgusted, and definitely offended to have been perhaps put in that catagory.

 

Mrs. O

 

I really don't think it was any intent to put you or anyone in that category, Mrs. O...merely being used to illustrate a point.

 

However!! (my favorite word)...a swinger's board is certainly not the place for any type of discussion or reference to that in my opinion. Goes right back to what I said to yawanna...what would someone just opening a thread think if that was the first thing they saw? For me, it would be a case of close the thread and go away...(assuming I knew what it meant in the first place).

 

Can we just end this thread? It may have served a purpose in the beginning, but it deteriorated rapidly. Everyone seems to have hard feelings about some things that were said and done, but again, like yawanna said, you have the choice of ignoring or resonding. Sometimes, the greatest "power of an opinion" lies in a non-response.

 

So why don't we all say, "enough, already!" and agree that we each hold our own opinions dear to our hearts and while they are not necessarily in agreement with others, that makes them no less valuable. Who really cares what anyone else thinks or believes as long as we, individually, are comfortable with what we think and believe?

 

And now, I am through with this one. - EBF

 

~ TYF ~

[Alura 2,773]

It seems to me, fellow board members, that a couple of posters on this thread will not allow it to be ended voluntarily until the rest of us agree that they are superior to us in beauty, intellect, debate and, I suppose, sexual skills.

 

The same points have been made over and over again. No agreement or even a truce is in sight.

 

I see this thread as a threat to gaining more of the kind of folks we'd like to have join us here. Surely this sort of "bad-mouthing" can only serve to cause reasonable folks to decide this is not the site for them and surf merrily on their way, never to return.

 

Therefore, I've written Julie asking her to end this thread. I have no idea if she will or will not. If she does, I take full responsibility.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I think this is a case like so many others where people are allowing a thread to drag on. It's not just one or two people that won't give up, it's everyone because they keep feeling the need to respond back. If those who want the topic to end will simply stop responding to it, it will end. Those who are egging it on simply want a reaction and when they stop getting it, they will stop posting.

 

Stop throwing fuel on the fire and it will die on it's own. This isn't the first thread on this subject (looks/weight/etc) that we've had and it's not the first to go in the same direction this one has. It's the norm for topics like this and really for any topic where there are going to be such extreme differences of opinion.

[yawanna 17]

We also touched on young swingers... I'm not so sure that's an elitist venture.... we've seen and heard from younger and younger couples who are venturing into swinging.. I mean.. who are we to say what a couple's relationship is? If you meet and they seem good together and behave like a healthy couple.. and there is mutual interest.. I don't see why not Hasn't happened to us yet.. well....only from younger single men

[Couple_DFW 15]

Damn, just when we all find something fun, someone has to come along and mess it up for everyone with some stupid rule!! I just want to know if the people at the door or the interviewers of these clubs/parties are beautiful people? If so....who made the decision that they are beautiful?

 

Don't y'all just love the free world? Do you suppose there are any of these forums in those countries that cannot speak out for or against anything? Choices and options.....how wonderful for us!!

 

I'll step out on the curb here so I don't have far to be pushed by who ever (or is it whom) that I may offend. Do looks matter? Sure to some....it's only human nature. (I prefer tall men with nice shoulders and arms. I am probably missing out on a lot...but that's my own fault. I like what I like....just as most people) BUT do I think a public place has the right to make that decision? Hard to say...it's all about the bottom line and whatever makes the most $$ is what "they" are going to do. Unless, of course, "they" are average looking like most of the world. If I owned a club or had the parties I would let everyone in!! AND they could sit any place they liked....no matter their shape, size, color......that's just me. Variety is the spice of life!!

[Couple_DFW 15]

If screening for age and looks is bigotry, then screening out single men, which 95% of clubs do these days, is the worst kind of bigotry.

 

YES it is!!! There are those of us that like the occasional single male. Guess what???? Nice single men are just as hard to find as nice single women.

[Chicup 41]

Ummm private clubs, which swing clubs are, can have any kind of members they want.

 

If they want to limit it to people 120 pounds, bald, and missing 2 fingers they can.

[Couple_DFW 15]

But at parties like this, the conversation was generally more intelligent and interesting, the manners displayed more pleasant (just because you have no intention of playing with a person, does not mean you have to treat them like a dog who just peed all over your new carpet just because they dared to try and strike up a conversation with you), etc. Oh, yeah, and the sex was much better, too...

 

No, give me a venue where all shapes, sizes and ages are represented any time. Much, much more fun...

 

I would have to agree!! Not that all beautiful people are stupid, but a vast majority of them have the "It's all about me" syndrome. Give me intelligence any day!! With knowledge comes power....and who doesn't like a little power? Both are very sexy. When a person becomes sexy, they become better looking all the time!!

[Tantra 48]

There's a party hosted in different Texas cities called the "Beautiful Party" which is more or less the same thing described in this thread. I believe the next party is tonight in Dallas.

 

Since it is a private party and invitation only, I believe they have every right to set whatever criteria they choose.

[fun_pairTX 26]

I don't think anyone is arguing their right to set whatever criteria they choose, only the sheer ridiculousness of it all. We ourselves are considering holding a party for cyclopses with one brow that goes all the way across their forehead.

 

And back hair, both sexes need to have copius amounts of back hair.

[Tantra 48]

Would you consider a private party that excludes single men, as well as couples with bisexual men, or couples into pain, etc. ridiculous as well?

 

These people are being selective with regard to physical appearance, just as others are selective with regard to other criteria (marital status, age, sexual orientation, maturity, personality, etc). People have been and will continue to be excluded from private parties and/or sexual encounters because of any number reasons. To each his own.

[M&B 21]

Originally posted by fun_pairTX

I don't think anyone is arguing their right to set whatever criteria they choose, only the sheer ridiculousness of it all. We ourselves are considering holding a party for cyclopses with one brow that goes all the way across their forehead.

 

And back hair, both sexes need to have copius amounts of back hair.

 

This may strike you as odd, but, the rather well trimmed single brow across my one eye has gotten me into places that I believe I might otherwise have not been allowed into.

 

I do hope that your comment about back hair on women is sincere. I find it quite attractive and a great bonding experience to groom.

 

Incidentally, I tried the link. For some reason, I was unable to view their picture. I guess access to that site is exclusive. Now, I may never know what beautiful people look like.

[DevilzAdvokit 15]

I think that most of these exclusive clubs are actually looking for people who are height/weight proportionate. The problem is that people often refer to others as beautiful when the more fitting term would be fit and or HWP. I can't tell you the number of times I have received pictures from people claiming to be gorgeous just to find out that they spend 30 hours a week in a gym to make up for the fact that they look like Don Knotts with breasts. Cruel but true.

 

I am apologizing ahead of time for all those I'm bound to offend.

[Tantra 48]

Perhaps the real reason people are sensitive to this issue is that this couple is stating their preferences out in the open rather than keeping them private. Their looks are irrelevant to whether or not they have the merits to guage beauty.

[mifligirl25 15]

I've been reading these posts for awhile, and am having a hard time believing that these beautiful people clubs exist... who is to judge another's beauty for true beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Oh, and yeah above all CONFIDENCE is what I find most appealing!

[yawanna 17]

they are saying they are above average in physical condition and looks.

 

Yes.. beauty IS in the eyes of the beholder..and in some cases.... some are a legend in their own mind methinks.

 

It just brings me back to... who's to say what beauty and above average physical condition is to some...I mean..he has no shoulders and looks to have manboobs maybe even. Nothing wrong with that... except..when they tout themselves as above average in looks and physical condition.

 

Maybe this is much ado about nothing..if they think they are exceptional looking, then hell.... I don't have high expectations that their party will be full of barbie and kens

[Chicup 41]

Originally posted by yawanna

quote:

Only people like you and ourselves get invited! People in their 20’s, 30’s to mid 40's (we’ll stretch the age limits a little for very exceptional people).

 

 

The funny part about this is that I think they are asking 'our age and lower'. Sounds like they want to party with good looking swingers who are younger then they are. Being low 30's they seem to old for our tastes.

[NNJBoomers 15]

Bottom line is that they do not want to "play" with anyone who they consider old and fat. Guess 50 = old.

 

I am fortunate to look like I am in my early 40s. Would I ever love to get the invitation to their party, "do" that host, and then afterwards casually advise him that in December I turn 54.

 

Oh, but that would never happen, even if I were to be so "lucky" as to get an invitation, because he doesn't turn me on. Superficial, aren't I?

 

Live and let live.

 

To each is own.

 

Yada, yada, yada........

 

Pauline

[wcplnsac 15]

Quote

Originally posted by Tantra

Would you consider a private party that excludes single men, as well as couples with bisexual men, or couples into pain, etc. ridiculous as well?

 

Yes, I would actually, but then again if it is a private party in a private place then who really cares. I am arguing the clubs not the personal parties. But all in all the criteria making is ridiculous unless it is for legal reasons. But that is my opinion. You can have what ever opinion you like.