Christianity, politics & swinging

[Bach7C 15]

Greetings all.

 

My wife and I are considering attending a swinging event soon (probably "soft-swinging" at first). I am a Christian and conservative Republican. Are there others out there like me, or will I be the odd-man out? I'd be particularly interested in hearing from like-minded people.

 

I came across this website a few days ago, and have enjoyed reading the message boards.

 

Thank you.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

There are tons out there like you. You should really check out the Liberated Christians website at http://www.libchrist.com

[lycioos 16]

Hi This is a VERY touchy subject here that has been discussed before. This can get pretty heated as there are a great deal of different opinions and personal beliefs involved. You may want to scan through some of the older topics. Or, maybe Julie (our hostess) who has recently changed our forum can quide you as to where it is. Good luck with your decision.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

I also am a conservative christian. We attend church every Sunday and I make every effort to lead my life as I believe His will deems.

 

Now having said that there are two things I never do. I do not discuss religion at swing clubs and I do not discuss swinging at church.

 

The same holds true for politics. If someone happens to think like I do politically, I engage in discussions with that person. Usually we end up supporting each others beliefs and it can be great fun. However if they happen to disagree with me then I will drop the subject like a hot potato, or inevitably it will end up in a bitter argument leaving feelings of resentment and anger in its trail. There simply is no way to convert most people and the world needs diametricly opposing views to maintain stability. BUT, I don't need to argue at swing clubs about politics or religion.

 

So, it really doesn't matter what people feel regarding religion or politics when I am deciding whether they could be playmates or friends for that matter. John.

[danc694u 19]

Originally posted by michigancouple:

The same holds true for politics. If someone happens to think like I do politically, I engage in discussions with that person. Usually we end up supporting each others beliefs and it can be great fun. However if they happen to disagree with me then I will drop the subject like a hot potato, or inevitably it will end up in a bitter argument leaving feelings of resentment and anger in its trail.

 

But!! There are those of us who will argue with you until we're blue in the face. Then... take what you have to say as your opinion. Then... check the validity of your argument, for ourselves.

 

And, find that our belief is not all it's cracked up to be.

 

The only time a good debate should result in an all out argument. Is when one or both parties do not have ALL the facts. Yet still blindly support their argument.

 

HR 1542 is a good point of case.

[stucazzu 15]

Dear Bach,

As a Christian who attempts to authentically live his faith, I would like to respond to your remark. As a Christian, if your motive is purely your own pleasure, then you don't belong in a club swinging. If you are there to enhance your sex life as a couple so as to strengthen your relationship, then it is good. Soft swinging is clearly easier and more consistent with Christian way than hard swing. But again, look at the motivation and the focus.

[Lorrie 21]

I'm of the Nazirene (Pre-Christian) faith, which is a Christian-like group, only we are a lot more liberal when it comes to sex and we don't read the Bible; we read another book....I consider myself Independent, although I lean toward conservativism. But my main lover, Jay, is an atheist and liberal.

[bill&sabrina 22]

I am not a Christian, or at least I don't "label" myself as one. I believe in God and a savior, but like I said prefer not to associate myself with any certain group because of the old saying "one bad apple spoils the bunch". You will meet others like you, and I will imagine that they will do as was already done; try to tell you what you can and can't do as a swinger. I hope that you will have the courage as I do to tell them that you take your instructions from God. Not another imperfect human being like myself. I do love it that people on this board are proudly proclaiming their faith.

Bill

[good times 991]

We are not church goer's but aren't non believers either. Our politics lean more towards Libertarian than anything else. It seems to me that swinging is like anything else in that you will find people from all walks of life and beliefs.

[Mary&Bill 15]

Hey there is nothing wrong with being a Christian or a Republican. Why should non-believers or Dems have all the fun.

 

We all come from different walks of life and we all have different experiences which is part of what makes our lifestyle choice fun and exciting.

 

So welcome. Who knows maybe I ll see you at the convention. And I don't mean the Republican Convention

 

Bill

[marco 15]

Hey Cool Cat,

 

Man, I feel your pain. You are not alone in this dilemma. We are 40ish couple, married for 19 years and are republicans. We attend church and are both christians. Allow me to begin by giving you a little history of our past experiences. We are planning to go to a club in Austin in a couple of weeks. It's a swingers club and we have gone there twice before but it has been a couple of years. We had alot of fun and even when it got crazy we were kind of in our own world. We have a fantastic sex life and have tried alot of things and view this as just another experience we can share and enjoy. We really don't go there to meet up with anyone just to be able to "let go" and do what comes to us in the midst of a crowd. The concern we had was "was this right for us". I have been leading a christian men's group and I read a defintion of sexual purity this past week. It is when sexual gratification comes to us from only our wives and nothing or anyone else. My wife is so secure in my love for her that she can't understand why other men have so many sexual hangups because all I do is for her enjoyment and vice versa. We have agreement on everything we do.........and we have done alot of things that I am sure most "christian" couples won't do . She has taken professional lingerie pix for me, and we look at Victorias secret catalogs together. We "play" on the road trips we take. I guess what I am trying to say is be sure you have a good foundation for you and your wife to build on and then start building some memories of your adventures together. Be sure her sexual satisfaction is a primary concern for you and have agreement on the major issues.

 

I've probably said to much but man when I hear of all the stories the men have about sexual frustrations it makes me wonder why the don't go on the offensive instead of always being on the defensive about sexaul problems with their wives.

[Chicup 41]

Originally posted by Mary&Bill

Hey there is nothing wrong with being a Christian or a Republican. Why should non-believers or Dems have all the fun.

 

I'm an atheist and a Republican, I hope it is ok if I play

 

While I've never asked what someones political leanings were while answering/writing an add, every couple we have met from an online add (only 3) have been Republicans as well (found out from small talk with them). I'm basically a Libertarian who thinks we need a strong national defense, and sometimes national offense (something a 'true' Libertarian wouldn't agree with). There are a HECK of a lot of Republicans just like me out there, though most would call themselves agnostic rather then atheists. I call them cowards :evil:

 

I guess like attracts like.

[troufault 15]

Yes, religion is so important. And it depends on the kind of religion, that is, what is one's understanding of God.

 

I have just written a book which involves swinging and a bit of the forward goes: "God has given us the priceless gift of enjoyment of sex. Most men and women do enjoy it - and even enjoy just reading about it. But we demonize the gift, probably because this particular enjoyment used to risk pregnancy."

 

Another bit goes: "That is should be debased in this way is in my view blasphemy. And let us step into the presence of, truly worship, the loving God who gave it to us."

[curious24 17]

this is interesting... i saw a show on the history channel about sex and the bible.. if you put things in context of when they where written there was no contraceptives for women.. and there were no laws really to speak of.. but what was everyone afraid of? God.. so the religious leaders of the time put in some rules for sex to protect women...

 

the show made total sense to me.. but my friend who is very Christian thought it was up surd that anyone could think this way today.. i was a little more open minded and agreed with the show that the bible is and old text written in a different time..

 

anyway it was a really interesting show and had some really good points.

[alabamafuntonig 20]

The bible (the Christian written word of God) is pretty clear on the facts of extramarital affairs!

 

The commandments and books of the bible clearly state God's written word clearly and most proficient on the matter of sex outside ones marriage!

 

It would seem hypocritical to believe in the word of god and yet think I am not a sinner when it would come to sex with another person besides my spouse! This would seem to pose a major line of difference in any religion I would fathom a guess...can one be a religious person and still swing? Can one have a true understanding of God’s teachings and still live an immoral life? Or do we shift the words of the bible and create sects of religions that fit our most carnal desires? The facts are pretty well stated and don’t change whether we believe them to be true or not. Or if we believe they are archaic in their teachings.

 

For me I have no branch of religion I call my own. I was raised a catholic and understand the bible to some degree. With all that said it is my opinion that I am a sinner in the eyes of the church and god. But I also feel that I am the master of my own destiny

[Lorrie 21]

The thing is you and many other people believe that the bible is the true word of God.

 

Some people, like me, don't believe the bible is totally correct, and believe it is not supposed to be used to help understand God. Too many people believe the bible is the only book out there for people who believe in God. NOT TRUE AT ALL. I'm super spiritual. I believe in God and angels, I pray, I believe I'm going to heaven, I believe I am no hypocrite, and I believe I'm living my life the way God wants me to live. I have no regrets, no doubts, no shame. I am happy. I'm not married, but I do have sex with multiple partners which is still considered a biblical no-no = fornication.

 

BTW, how the bible regards homosexuality, adultery, and fornication, and practically all things of a sexual nature I believe is totally false. I've done research on this.......And I don't believe that's from God.

 

And I don't believe I'm deluding myself.

[alabamafuntonig 20]

Make no mistake there are scores of religions out there Christianity being one of the biggest! I feel no remorse either in my stand and frankly I find no pleasure or comfort in the notion that there is a god that exists out there that will punish his children. But the bible is still the oldest written word on the subject in mass production still to this day. Being a catholic I speak from my teachings of Catholicism and not from hard line Baptists. As a matter of sorts like pagans the Catholics are a religious sect based on ritual and spiritual ambivalence! You see, I can not believe in the word of god, I can't be a hypocrite so take my words with a grain of salt... like the bible, it is only one man's opinion of a different view of the same story!...

[alabamafuntonig 20]

I thought you all would like some more non biblical accounts…for I don’t ever rely on one source for my wisdom or opinions.

 

Righteousness is good morality, and wrongdoing is that which wavers in your soul and which you dislike people finding out about. --Mohammed

 

Whether one believes in religion or not, whether one believes in this religion or that religion, the very purpose of our life is happiness, the very motion of our life is towards happiness --The Dalai Lama

 

Without an understanding of myth or religion, without an understanding of the relationship between destruction and creation, death and rebirth, the individual suffers the mysteries of life as meaningless mayhem alone. --Marion Woodman, Canadian analyst, writer

 

Heaven never helps the men who will not act. --Sophocles

 

Trust God's authority, not man's majority

 

And one last thought on the matter at hand

 

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. --Aristotle

[Mary&Bill 15]

I went through a couple of stages when the idea of swinging first came up in our relationship. First, the excitement of it all which I know we have all felt. After the excitement I started to reflect on the morality of it all. I too being Catholic, and I do go to church on Sunday, felt guilt and I guess some shame for even thinking of the idea. After all this is not something a "good" Catholic should be doing. And then I did research about God, religion and swinging and guess what - I could find sites and information that could make me feel better about swinging. This apostle or that holy person had many wives so I guess it's ok. See they did it too. Or there is nothing in the Bible that specifically excludes this type of behavior. This is what I found.

 

Bottom line is that we can all find information out there to justify our positions and make us feel better about our choice. Swinging is probably a sin in many religions. In the Catholic church even birth control is a sin. but how many of us really believe we are going to hell for violation of that one.

 

We are all sinners and there is no such thing as a perfect person. I have been amazed reading this board at how committed and honored the sacrament of marriage is held by our members. How cheating is frowned upon and lying to your spouse is just plain wrong.

 

It seems to me like many people in our community have it all right. Be kind to others, respect your spouse and to be honest in communicating with each other. Sure we are sinners but when it comes to morality and marriage we have a lot to proud of.

[curious24 17]

i was thinking about the definition of adultery so i thought I would look it up.

 

Quote

n. pl. a·dul·ter·ies

Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse.

 

n : extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations; "adultery is often cited as grounds for divorce"

 

the first definition is pretty clear.. have sex with someone other than you spouse then it's adultery..

 

the second one isn't all that clear.. basically if i understand it correctly it says, in a round about way mind you, that if you have extramarital sex that doesn't maliciously interfere with marriage relations (i.e. you give permission etc) then it's okay...

 

that's how i see the second definition.. interesting

[Lorrie 21]

It really depends on which dictionary you read. Some lump them both together, and define both actions as the same. The typical church crowd would certainly have them as the same anyway. They would say: no matter how you slice it or dice it, sin is sin, wrong is wrong.

 

There will always be the holier than thou crowd....Two single people in a monagamous sexual relationship who are engaged are considered wicked male and female sluts and would be condemned mercilessly be many people.

 

In the end, if you believe in God, it's between the person and God. Every one is responsible on an individual basis. Each person needs to find out what they believe is right for them. Living your life the way other people want you to live (because they feel the other way you want to live is wrong) is not living, IMO--I've been there, done that, not to ever return!

[sportync 20]

This would definitely fall into the category of questions with many answers. I guess that you must go with your own feelings on this. Many "religious" people can use the Bible to make a case for just about anything... even playing with rattle snakes in church, but If you let the guy up there in the pulpit make your decisions for you, then I don't think that you have an especially close relationship with your God. The Bible says "Love God and love your neighbor". This is the basis for the ten commandments, and if the things you do are done with love as your main measure, then I don't see how they can be offensive to God. He gave us our sex drives, He created all the beautiful people in the world and He made them attractive to us. He gave us enthusiasm and imagination and invested us with a sense of adventure. If we use these gifts to further our joy in His creations as well as the joy of those we love, then I also don't think that He would be displeased with us. I never came across any Biblical reference to God punishing Saul or David for keeping hundreds of wives and concubines, yet he did punish David for his taking of another man's wife. It was done with deceit and trickery and it was stealing, plain and simple. Whenever I make love with my wife or with a group of people, I sincerely believe that I am giving every bit as much if not more than I am taking. If God is displeased with this, I'm sure that he will let me know. I certainly don't need to hear about it from some Bible-thumping hypocrite who feels like he's the only one holding the keys to the kingdom.

 

[bill&sabrina 22]

Quote

 

Originally posted by sportync

 

I never came across any Biblical reference to God punishing Saul or David for keeping hundreds of wives and concubines, yet he did punish David for his taking of another man's wife. It was done with deceit and trickery and it was stealing, plain and simple.

 

Even Ray Charles could see the point made in these two sentences.

[Lorrie 21]

Sportnyc,

 

Well my "bible" The Gospel of the Nazirenes, doesn't mention most of what you said as wrong, in and of itself. As long as there is true love present, then it's right. And you can find true love in ANY kind of situation. Lying is not tantamount to hating the person, even though lying is definitely wrong and have it's consequences. But lying is lying; lying on your taxes (which is lying and stealing) is bad too, and so forth. I think most people do lie about something in their lives.

 

Anyway, my book is different. IMO, either you believe the whole thing or you discard it. I'm not into picking and choosing sentences. Mind you, it was not a book that I read and decided to follow; After much soul searching, I had made my decision to live the way I do prior to finding out the book exists. It simply agrees with me.

 

So in a way, I discard even the things I believe is true from the bible. I don't follow it at all. It's too tainted, IMO

 

"If God is displeased with this, I'm sure that he will let me know. I certianly don't need to hear about it from some Bible-thumping hipocrite who feels like he's the only one holding the keys to the king."

 

Yes, or ANYONE whose judges anyone's lifestyle.

[sportync 20]

I don't consider myself a "born-again" Christian....rather a "thinking-again" Christian. I've read the Bible (several times) and feel a certian understanding of a lot of it. I've also read the Gita, parts of the Koran and many other books on the subject of spirituality and religion. Also, I've heard a couple of thousand sermons over the years, and I honestly feel that most of western thought on the subject leaves a big vacant spot, especially in the realm of our place in the scheme of things. I don't really "buy" into any one religion, but there are basic truths in all of them. I do believe in God and Jesus, because I've just seen too much of their influence in our lives to dismiss them as false. I believe in the power of prayer and the power of love. Again, I've seen too much first hand to dismiss them as false. I've witnessed miracles personally, so I know them to be real. Man is probably the only species on the planet that is aware of his own mortality, so he created religion to try and explain what might happen after we are gone. But it goes a lot deeper than that. Star Wars put it plainly but pretty clearly. You can choose the dark side of the Force or the Light side, and once you choose, you then have a path to follow...a way to guide you through life. Where swinging or anything else falls into the mix is for each person to figure out for themselves. Life is really all about the choices we make and accepting the consequences of those choises. Sportync

[flfunseeker 15]

I am a Christian, and one thing I have learned is that ultimately the consequences are between you and God. Yes, it will be something you have to live and be the result of some wishful rationalizing - still, no one else can tell you what to do - people can make uggestions, or relate their own experience - in the end, it is your decision as well be the consequences.

[bill&sabrina 22]

Wow!!! Things are really being discussed in a positve way. I really liked the Star Wars reference in sportync's post. It really sums things up in an understandable way. Again.

Wow!!!

 

Bill

[sportync 20]

The more I think about it, the more I begin to realize that it's not only Western Religion that seems to leave some serious vacant spots, but Western thought in general. Eastern philosophy and even Native American traditions seem to find a happy medium when it comes to man's place in the scheme of things. Man is here to enjoy the blessings and bounty of this beautiful earth of ours. He takes only what he needs, so that resources will remain for future generations and he uses all that he takes, wasting nothing. Western thought seems to go along the lines of "take anything and everything that you can easily make a dollar on, and if you leave a mess for your grandchildren to clean up, well, that's their problem....let them deal with it. The Indians hunted buffalo for countless generations and there were always plenty left for others. Then along came the train and the gun and in a few short years the buffalo were nearly extinct and the prairies were littered with bones of the dead ones that were killed and just left there to rot. The white men saw it as great fun, slaughtering them by the thousands just to see if they could hit the mark. But, believe it, someone got rich selling tickets for buffalo hunts from train cars.

 

Western religion, like most western thought seems to miss the mark. Rather than trying to explain our place in the over-all scheme of things, it seems to me that a lot more energy is spent telling us what we better not do if we want to go to Heaven. Don't wear make-up or short skirts, don't drink alcohol ( or coffee or tea), don't eat meat on Friday, don't dance, don't smoke, don't do any work on Sunday. And we Americans, descended from Puritans, are probably the worst of them all when it comes to our sexual hangups. I dare say there is probably no major developed country on the face of the earth with as many lawyers and psychiatrists as we have. We spend more money on shrinks and lawyers than the gross national product of many countries. All of our major cities now have war-zones that the cops won't even go near after dark. We have major surpluses on crops, yet many American kids go hungry. We have cities full of crack-ho's, junkies and killers, and this is where we raise our children. Over half of the marriages wind up in divorce court, and legal drugs are as big a problem as illegal ones. Of course, the jails are not filled with professors and doctors wives strung out on Valium...they're filled with kids caught smoking marijuana. Seventy-five per cent of the world Cocaine production winds up here and even though we spend billions each year on the "war on drugs", you can easily purchase ANY drug you could want in ANY prison in the country. If they can't keep it out of maximum-security prisons, how in hell do they think they can keep it out of a country with thousands of miles of open borders? The Indians in Peru have been chewing those same leaves for generations and never had a "drug problem". Likewise, Mexicans have been smoking Marijuana for generations and they never seemed to have a "drug problem". Yet look at us. Our prisons are filled with kids who smoked pot and our cities are war-zones because of crack. I think it comes back to the"western"idea of "I want it all, and I want it NOW!!" And people may wonder, "Why would you want to swing?" With all this shit going on all around me, can anyone really blame me for wanting to share a little fun with some friends? I mean, really!

[Lorrie 21]

Brilliant analysis of our society!

[Handyman69 15]

We are all sinners and there is no such thing as a perfect person

 

I totally agree with this statement.

 

We too go to church. Our kids are active in church youth group..a couple are even leaders..

 

Was a topic we discussed and found the answer. As John stated in one of his replies.....we discuss swinging at socials and with people who are in the lifestyle...we talk religion at church...the two do not intermix nor do I want them to.

 

In the end, if you believe in God, it's between the person and God. Every one is responsible on an individual basis. Each person needs to find out what they believe is right for them. Living your life the way other people want you to live (because they feel the other way you want to live is wrong) is not living,

 

This sums it up for us. We enjoy swinging...its consensual and as long as that agreement remains, we will continue... if question arises, we will re-evaluate at that time...Each person has to determine whether its right or wrong...

[2dreamyangels 15]

alabamafuntonig, you are one of the few people who actually gets it. Loving one another does not mean to have sex with one another. I like you! You really have it together! Maybe I'm so impressed because you actually said what I have believed all along. That this is not how God would have us live our lives, but we do make our own choices. He may be a disappointed in us from time to time, but he is always there when we need him. .

[troufault 15]

When I posted a month ago I didn't spell out something I believe:

 

There is no original sin. There is original good.

 

Original sin it seems was invented by authoritarians who wanted to stop people doing what they wanted to do and instead do what should be done. This included stopping women in the Middle East tribes, who were struggling to survive on their parched land, from having it off with their neighbours and producing sons. Understandable. Absolutely right at the time.

 

But I cannot understand why the christian church still teaches the old testament. Jesus was love. What he tried to do was lead us beyond the old teachings.

 

Let us give him a chance.