Is swinging an intelligent choice?

[megauxurious 15]

I've raised this on another post but I think it deserves its own focus. I have noticed in published research that liberal attitudes on controversial issues are strongly correlated to IQ and being pro swinging is no exception. Now attitudes are one thing and behaviour is another. Are real swingers smarter than the general population? My observations suggest they are - they are wealthier than average, more educated than average and according to posts in this site swingers are nerdier than average - all proxies for high IQ. My observation of Mensa in SA tells me the incidence of swinger experience among members is at least 30% which is way above general population estimates.

 

The question may not seem interesting but others studies show sexual activity is highest - more partners, higher incidences of from hand holding to intercourse, etc - at IQs between 80 and 100 i.e. just below average. As IQ climbs the odds of being a virgin climb rapidly. So why do swingers seem smarter than average?

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

This is an interesting question and one I'd love to know the answer to... but I doubt I ever will.

 

I wish I could say that I've seen the same things that you have seen in my experience but I haven't. I've seen those who swing to be very much a cross-section of society, both from educational level, professional level, and intelligence. I would say that overall, we seem to get more intelligent swingers on this forum, but I think that has more to do with the forum concept as a whole. Since this site lends itself more to intelligent discussion of swinging topics than to "hey lets hook up this weekend" we tend to only get those who like to intelligently discuss swinging.... and by default that tends to be a more geekier/nerdier sort of swinger. Like attracts like as they say.

 

That said, the below two quotes from your original question seem to state the same as what I've found, and also seem to contridict each other, in regards to your question.

 

liberal attitudes on controversial issues are strongly correlated to IQ and being pro swinging is no exception.

 

others studies show sexual activity is highest - more partners, higher incidences of from hand holding to intercourse, etc - at IQs between 80 and 100 i.e. just below average. As IQ climbs the odds of being a virgin climb rapidly. So why do swingers seem smarter than average?

 

And just in case I read the last section wrong - I read it to say that studies have shown that sex with multiple partners is highest among those with the lower IQs.

[willyoats 324]

Way over half of our swinging partners are college educated professionals, as are we. Snobishness is the main factor in selection. It's compatability. As a group, we have more in common, can have more meaningful conversation outside of the bedroom, and are more cautious in choosing partners. That is not much different from the reason that most of our friends have been married for a long time.

 

Swingers who are into maximizing their conquests are as unappealing to us as people who either have poor judgement in choosing spouses or lack the commitment that marriage should have.

 

That said, we were members of a swinging nudist camp and a very large swing club for many years. At both places there were all types, and we think they reflected a pretty representative cross section of America. There were shady characters with clearly below average intelligence. There were mostly good decent folks who were average in intelligence, asperations, motivation, honesty, etc. And, there were lots of doctors and university professors.

 

While this observation is purely anecdotal, if this sample of about 400 or 500 people is truly representative, I conclude that the average swinger is not very much different in intelligence from the average person anywhere.

[iapr 24]

I am not sure that there is an actual difference in average IQ per capita between swingers and nonswingers but I do believe that the swinger population is more free-thinking than the nons.

 

For many people if they are told, "do not have sex with anyone other than your spouse." They won't. On the other hand someone who is more free-thinking when told not to have nonmarital sex will ask themselves, "why not?" Then if they can't come up with a good reason not to other than some authority figure told them not to, they will determine their own sexual identity.

[LFM2 1,482]

Interesting study. I'd like to think I'm smarter than average, but I don't necessarily know that I am. I'd also like to think I'm wealthier. LOL... Highly doubt that though. The money correlates with higher education though... It only goes to figure if you have a higher education, you're probably in a higher tax bracket.

 

Not every couple we've been with has been college educated. Interestingly, we have found though that if one partner hasn't been to college, there is a good chance that the other partner hasn't either. This doesn't necessarily make them unintelligent though.

 

I do have add here, however, is that some emails we've gotten convey that swingers in this area are not as intelligent as some would imagine. Their grammar, their spelling and their attitude show a much smaller audience of intelligent swingers. Maybe your study is geographical. I'm curious of the demographics in this area. On the other side of the coin, we have met some incredible people who are very successful in their life. I'd say it's about 50/50 here.

[socolais 696]

While we can objectively acknowledge data patterns and correlations, that doesn't indict causality.

 

The population of swingers I've observed has also been broad spectrum in the behaviors I associate with general intelligence.

[slevin 1,374]

The question may not seem interesting but others studies show sexual activity is highest - more partners, higher incidences of from hand holding to intercourse, etc - at IQs between 80 and 100 i.e. just below average. As IQ climbs the odds of being a virgin climb rapidly. So why do swingers seem smarter than average?

 

Like Julie, and other posters, our experience has been that the couples we have met while swinging have been a cross section of society. We have met people we'd consider intelligent, people who are of average intelligence, people who are successful, less successful, blue collar, white collar...you name it.

 

On the question of lower IQ people being more sexually active I have an opinion; one that is completely devoid of any research or statistics. Totally born of personal experience. Highly intelligent people that I've known have been more socially awkward; I attribute this to them trying to use logic in the realm of social situations and seduction. Logic doesn't work too well there. More normally intelligent people are more balanced which leads to more social interactions and more sexual activity. High-IQ people tend to be more apt to have personality based disorders as well. That doesn't help with social interactions!

 

All purely non-scientific and opinionated!

 

One other thing: IQ does not denote intelligence. It's purely a social-scientific quantification of the capacity to learn and the likelihood of success in academic performance, job performance, income etc.

[dnmnms 55]

We definantly have met all kinds in the LS.

Hubby is the higher IQ one..sometimes its frustrating to my average IQ. Dont ever ask him a question unless you want a detailed answer. I have learned to not ask why unless I want a 30 minute talk telling me exactly why.

 

I am the creative one. I can do pretty much anything creative. He is the thinker.

He was raised very very strict both in education, family values and morals. Now myself, I pretty much raised myself with not much family involvement.

But we balance each other. I think you will find that in the LS. I dont believe there is a lower IQ or a higher IQ out there. Just a variety in all.

Maybe some with one or the other IQ will stick together but generally in our experience there is a big mix of everything out there.

 

Melody

[megauxurious 15]

The general consensus seems to be that you find all types among swingers. That is undoutably true but that doesn't mean the average swinger isn't smarter than the average non-swinger. I'm not implying every swinger is smarter than every non-swinger or that there is a major difference. The difference is likely to be subtle and show itself in the relative proportions of bright and dull groups rather than the total absence of either.

 

Is there any relationship between smarts and playing performance in your experience - in either direction? Perhaps people of average intelligence are the best players? I ask because an ex-hooker I once corresponded with told me that even in the same class of prostitution bright girls make much more money. Its not totally silly to suppose they might be providing a better overall service and that the same may apply to swingers. Or perhaps bright people are so socially inept they make for a bad swinging experience?

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Is there any relationship between smarts and playing performance in your experience - in either direction?

No, all the women I have had sex with, seem a little brighter than me. If you think you are having sex with a woman who you think is less intelligent than you, in the swinging lifestyle. Think again....they are all capable or thinking things out, regardless of their IQ.

Perhaps people of average intelligence are the best players?

Even if better players, not necessarily better sexual partners. That goes back to personal chemistry. Not numbers.

I ask because an ex-hooker I once corresponded with told me that even in the same class of prostitution bright girls make much more money. Its not totally silly to suppose they might be providing a better overall service and that the same may apply to swingers.

No, I don't think so. I think it would give them a better edge on the "trick" nothing more. As far as customers, repeat business.

 

Swingers don't swing like that. In a "trick" way. If they do, their numbers sure would be crunched. People are pretty keen as to why we hook up with each other. For hookers, its about customer satisfaction, in the end. With swingers, we are not exactly needing a service.

Or perhaps bright people are so socially inept they make for a bad swinging experience?

 

I think you need to meet more swingers doc If we talk about numbers, statistics, who plays more, what are the odds to everything. Its not exactly arousing to me. My wife would begin to yawn.

 

We want to talk about how we find you attractive. How do you find us attractive, Lets talk about sexual things and keep it focused on that. Pussy, cocks, anything. Share some kink.... anything. Something sexual, and you will play more.....

[WesternSwing 504]

I agree with Julie, I've observed that swinging is a carbon copy of general society. We've met some people who we have to wonder how they remember to even breath. We've also met some certified geniuses, and everywhere in between. I will say that one thing we have noticed is a large number that are entrepreneurs and self-employed business owners. Maybe there is a certain individual spirit that is attracted to open relationships?

 

Mr. WS

[BiloxiCouple 695]

Swinging crosses the whole spectrum of society. From the educated to the deedeedees. Young/old, big/small, rich/poor.

[slevin 1,374]

Without a scientific study all of this can only be subjective. What you're asking for can't be answered without research and analysis of a large sample of people who swing. That would include testing them with an IQ test (the same IQ test across the whole study) and not just relying on what they tell you their IQ is. Other than telling you that we've all found the swinging community to be a cross section of society, we can't really answer with anymore detail than that. I've never asked anyone (who seemed smart or dim to me) what their IQ score is

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Is there any relationship between smarts and playing performance in your experience - in either direction?

 

It's hard to say, the stupid people never get far enough with me for me to find out if they are good in bed. Perhaps I'm really missing out on the best ones.

[megauxurious 15]

Thanks for everyone's thoughtful replies. I remain convinced (from various scientific data sources) that the average swinger is somewhat smarter than the average non-swinger. I think I am probably asking too much to expect people to judge from their own experience because you will still see all levels of IQ even if there is a difference in the average. Besides I think all this scientific stuff is probably getting boring so I will aim at questions that are more likely to excite swingers in the future.

 

One last scientific thing if I may. It seems the peak of sexual activity is at IQs lower than I reported earlier. Its between an IQ of 75 and 90. The study says this applies to all forms of sexuality from hand holding to kissing and to number of sexual partners in the last year. Also the pattern is much more marked among women than men. In other words high IQ women should be decidedly less sexual than dull women. But that doesn't gell with my experience with very high IQ groups or the reported proportion of swingers with college degrees. Odd.

 

I must say though that like Julie I have a tough time finding morons attractive - even if they are physically hot. However a woman much brighter than me would be more attractive to me - other things being equal.

[megauxurious 15]

OK from various proxies of IQ in general swinger surveys I'm pretty sure that the average swinger IQ is 105 compared to the general average of 100. Swingers are on average a bit smarter. I think the reason has to do with the kind of moral reasoning one has to do before getting involved in swinging. Lets face it swinging isn't mainstream and large segments of society - including the 'moral leaders' - think it is an immoral practice. You need to get beyond that if you are to swing. According to the psychologist Kohlberg there are levels of moral reasoning and quite frankly the ability to think through issues in a principled and autonomous fashion belongs to the higher moral reasoning levels. Lower moral reasoning levels are more about following the crowd and tradition. It will come as no surprise that moral reasoning levels are highly dependent on cognitive sophistication which in turn depends on intelligence. So one should expect the average swinger to be somewhat smarter than average - or at least more sophisticated in how they think about moral issues.

[Dienekes 25]

I think this is an interesting question, and the results of a STUDY on this might be enlightening. However, to take the leap from anecdotal evidence at best, to prop up the idea that YOU have a higher IQ, or that swingers in general have a higher IQ is to me simply self-aggrandizement.

 

Im not trying to attack you or the idea, but just be careful about propping yourself up while possibly devaluing another. It is a bad road to walk down.

 

However, to debate the question itself one would have to consider far more variables than simply IQ. For example, if one is smarter, it tends to lead to higher paying jobs, which leads to more disposable income, which leads to freetime or the ability to CHOOSE ones direction in life.

If you have a below average or even average IQ, and are locked into a job that is barely above poverty level with no hope of really increasing this income, the vast majority of your mental energy will be spent trying to find ways to survive.

 

Do a quick google on Maslow's Hierarchy of needs and that alone will answer many aspects of a question like this.

 

Once again though, i caution against to much mental masturbation about whether swingers are more intelligent or not. Frankly, without our cultural taboos on swinging, i honestly believe the VAST majority of folks would rather engage in sexual activity with numerous people, than a monogamous situation, though i think most would also want the stability of 1 to a few very close partners they tend to enjoy this journey with ie life.

 

Dienekes

[PB&J 1,086]

However, to take the leap from anecdotal evidence at best, to prop up the idea that YOU have a higher IQ, or that swingers in general have a higher IQ is to me simply self-aggrandizement.

 

That's what I was going to say before I got to the end of this thread... do we have to try to persuade ourselves that because we swing, we must be more intelligent, and therefore that makes us in some way better than the rest? Maybe we swing because we like it, and others don't, and it takes all kinds to make the world anyway.

[Chicup 41]

I've raised this on another post but I think it deserves its own focus. I have noticed in published research that liberal attitudes on controversial issues are strongly correlated to IQ and being pro swinging is no exception. Now attitudes are one thing and behaviour is another. Are real swingers smarter than the general population? My observations suggest they are - they are wealthier than average, more educated than average and according to posts in this site swingers are nerdier than average - all proxies for high IQ. My observation of Mensa in SA tells me the incidence of swinger experience among members is at least 30% which is way above general population estimates.

 

The question may not seem interesting but others studies show sexual activity is highest - more partners, higher incidences of from hand holding to intercourse, etc - at IQs between 80 and 100 i.e. just below average. As IQ climbs the odds of being a virgin climb rapidly. So why do swingers seem smarter than average?

 

Great question and I have my own, unsupported theory on this.

 

I think you are right that high IQ's and swinging do go hand in hand. I think when you are smart enough to see through some of the traditions and rules of society, be it religious, legal, or just tradition, you are more open to try things like swinging. I think this is why so many swingers would have been classified as 'nerds' at some point in their lives.

 

But on the flip side I think there is a lower class element to swinging to with below average intelligence. These are people in the 'it feels good then do it' category without forethought or thinking about long term consequences. It would be wrong to say that swinging does not have its share of trailer trash.

 

And then finally I think the lines are slowly blurring. Swinging, or at least thinking about it, is slowly becoming more mainstream in thought, and as such more 'average' people are getting into it, though slowly.

[socolais 696]

I do find these mind games as interesting as sexual subjects.

 

If we accept your data as valid, the IQ difference is small and unlikely to be the significant determining factor between swingers and vanillas.

 

People get started in swinging in different ways and for different reasons. Yes swinging is the intelligent choice, but the level of intelligence required for the decision is well within the grasp of the overwhelming majority of civilization. Perhaps the more intelligent would be more likely to adopt swinging earlier in their lives. For others, perhaps the intelligent thing to do, would be delay recreational sex with others until after some other needs are met.

 

Everyone has to blaze their own path through the jungle of conflicting morals to the land of swinging. I suspect, the more intelligent generally have more villains to slay along their path. Some folks serendipitously wander into swinging, while others fight tooth and nail with their souls.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

OK from various proxies of IQ in general swinger surveys I'm pretty sure that the average swinger IQ is 105 compared to the general average of 100. Swingers are on average a bit smarter. I think the reason has to do with the kind of moral reasoning one has to do before getting involved in swinging. Lets face it swinging isn't mainstream and large segments of society - including the 'moral leaders' - think it is an immoral practice. You need to get beyond that if you are to swing. According to the psychologist Kohlberg there are levels of moral reasoning and quite frankly the ability to think through issues in a principled and autonomous fashion belongs to the higher moral reasoning levels. Lower moral reasoning levels are more about following the crowd and tradition. It will come as no surprise that moral reasoning levels are highly dependent on cognitive sophistication which in turn depends on intelligence. So one should expect the average swinger to be somewhat smarter than average - or at least more sophisticated in how they think about moral issues.

 

Can you point us to these studies you've mentioned that actually show intelligence in relation to swinging?

[BiloxiCouple 695]

If you quote you must reference.

[megauxurious 15]

The following is a bit disjointed but I'm trying to address a number of posts in one reply.

 

While I have mentioned some anecdotal observations I have not relied on them. The core comes from survey information of NASCA members. I had no intention of trying to make myself seem smarter than average but I acknowledge my posts could be read that way. I haven't put in any references because I am trying - unsuccessfully - to reduce the academic tone of my posts. Often I am simply relying on my memory from a great variety of sources anyway. If anyone is interested in Kohlberg or moral reasoning levels then Wickipedia is adequate enough. I must say though that an alternative explanation along the lines of brighter people being more able to afford the Lifestyle may be more convincing than my own moral reasoning account.

 

5 points might not seem like much but such a small difference makes a big difference to the proportions of very low and very high IQs. The thing about IQ is that it isn't a threshold variable. One doesn't suddenly understand something as one's IQ ticks over a certain value. All that happens is that lower IQ individuals may need a bit more time to, or are just a bit less likely to, think through issues when it seems the consensus is obvious and opposed to what you want to do.

 

Anyway my view is that the opposition to swinging in general is silly, or dare I say stupid, quite apart from any IQ related findings. I suppose the most one could say about swingers is that they made one reasonably smart decision. It doesn't mean they l make others but I think that a group of swingers might make smart decisions fractionally more often than than a group of non-swingers. It doesn't follow that every swinger will and every non-swinger won't - I am talking about the percentage differences of groups of people.

[Chicup 41]

I think trying to adequately survey swingers intelligence is pointless as the surveys are self selected. Now if we could force everyone attending a swingers club or putting up an add take an I.Q. test we might have a better break down, only we can't, at least not until I'm the God Emperor.

 

*insert evil laugh*

[sweet_tna 680]

So why do swingers seem smarter than average?

 

See that bold-faced word? That's part of your answer. Perception = reality. As for the "why" part of the question? Well, first you'd have to prove that swingers are, in fact, "smarter than average."

 

My personal, non-scientific theory on this would be that while we may be more open-minded as a whole, that doesn't necessarily make us more intelligent. Even if it did, would it really matter?

 

=)

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

The problem with survey's is that they only get answers from the people who answer the surveys and typically... especially when dealing with online surveys... you'll find that smarter people are more likely to complete a survey... thus skewing the results on something like this.

 

People who have more of an interest in knowing the results of a survey are more likely to participate in a survey.

[Chicup 41]

The problem with survey's is that they only get answers from the people who answer the surveys and typically... especially when dealing with online surveys... you'll find that smarter people are more likely to complete a survey... thus skewing the results on something like this.

 

People who have more of an interest in knowing the results of a survey are more likely to participate in a survey.

 

It goes beyond that.

 

First you need to know your IQ for a survey.

Then you need to put it down honestly.

 

So thats not going to happen or be valid. Most people seem to take the online IQ tests which often appears to give inflated results. That or the internet is full of supergeniuses.

 

What you could do is some rough guessing based on occupation, education level, etc based on other surveys and extrapolate IQ from there but it would be only a very rough estimate.

[ownerspet 506]

So why do swingers seem smarter than average?

 

From my observation, there is the same cross section of intelligence level as there is in any other circle of the vanilla world. However, it may at times appear that they may be of above average intelligence, because they are more open minded. Although open mindedness does not equate to higher intelligence.

[ncmd_couple 597]

People are people. The people that we meet, either in the swinging community, or in life, you have to appreciate them for who they are.

[ratimadan 75]

We are not sure that swinging is an "intelligent choice". Swinging is certainly a conscious lifestyle choice for the couple. That swingers have a higher IQ is pure conjecture.

 

In fact, a higher IQ level might interfere with the desire for sexual intercourse and enjoyment of the sex act particularly with a stranger, i.e., someone other than one's own spouse. Many high IQ folks are not socially very adept. They seem to live in their own world. Most likely these high IQ folks are sexually less active than the average Joe or Jane.

 

The high IQ individuals may tend to overly cogitate over whether or not he/she should play sexually with an attractive person of the opposite sex, get into his/her pants, suck his cock, sink one's cock into her pussy and fuck him/her to orgasm.

 

The simple (lower IQ?) folks seem to know what they want. An attractive woman is a sex object to be fucked and enjoyed with respect and dignity regardless of one's relationship with her without guile or deceipt. Same is true of a woman who is open to play with, suck his cock and take the handsome guy's dick in her vagina and fuck him to orgasm.

 

It seems that IQ and swinging are not related in any meaningful way. Swingers are most likely a reflection of the overall society as far as intelligence goes.

[megauxurious 15]

I am not merely conjecturing that swingers have higher IQs than average. It follows logically from the fact that groups known to have higher IQs are over-represented in swinger surveys e.g. a greater proportion of college graduates, or more high income earners, etc, than the general population.

 

But suppose that result is purely because surveys sample the smarter swingers and that the swinger IQ distribution is indistinguishable from that of the general population. I will argue that it still means swinging is an intelligent choice.

 

For a start it is very well established (Google "Intercourse and Intelligence" to trace references) that higher IQ people have less success getting sexual partners - no doubt about it. But therein lies the paradox. Those most successful at getting sex from others have IQs moderately below average - 85 for men and 95 for women - and sexual success falls off rapidly as IQ increases. Now if swingers are smarter than the most sexually successful group - and they MUST be if they are intellectually like the general population - then I can argue that swinging is a successful sexual strategy employed by those usually sexually handicapped by their intelligence. In fact if being a swinger counts as being sexually successful, then the following rule follows logically. If you are getting laid by a variety of sexual partners, and you are very smart, then the chances are good that you are a swinger. Sounds like an intelligent choice to me.

[BiloxiCouple 695]

If you quote you must reference.

 

I am repeating myself here.

 

Other than that all I can do is

[Chicup 41]

If you are getting laid by a variety of sexual partners, and you are very smart, then the chances are good that you are a swinger. Sounds like an intelligent choice to me.

 

As compared to?

 

I think you jumping a bit on your conclusions.

 

At my age, if you are having sex with multiple sexual partners and you are married, you are either a swinger of some flavor or a cheater.

 

If I were to become single I'd have a great variety of sexual partners for a short spell, find someone new and then go back to swinger or cheater if I wanted to maintain that.

 

One factor to look at is socioeconomic class too. Swingers are generally a bit higher on this (and no I don't have a citation anymore ), which could then account for the higher than average intelligence as well, as an incidental.

 

I have my own theories which though only apply to a certain mindset of swinger. I can't expect them to apply to swinging as a whole, as what motivates one type of person to swing may not motivate another.

[megauxurious 15]

I apologize if my writing is a bit tortured. Lets see if I can make one more stab at making my point clearer.

 

The research shows that the highest probability of getting laid (kissed, holding hands, multiple partners and anything sexual) occurs at moderately below average IQs 85-90. Smarter people are less able or attractive (the research says it isn't a lack of will or interest) in this area.

 

If 5 out of 10 people at IQ 70-90 could be deemed successful when it comes to getting sex from others, then only 3 out of 10 people with IQs from 110-130 will satisfy the same definition of success. I'm not making those numbers up - that's what the research statistics say.

 

Now if swingers are at least as smart as the general population (and nobody has suggested that they are less intelligent) then the bell curve says roughy 13% of swingers will be in each group - IQs 70-90 and 110-130.

 

So higher IQ swingers come from a smaller pool of sexually successful people than lower IQ swingers do. So if you are sexually successful and have an IQ between 110-130 then you are 67% more likely to be a swinger than a sexually successful person with an IQ in the 70-90 range. If swingers are somewhat smarter on average then the effect is much more marked.

 

What this probably means is that smart people who have found the means to get sex from a variety of others are less likely to do so via the single scene or by cheating than low IQ people who know how to get sex. It is known that never marrying and divorce is higher in low IQ groups for example. Most of us (swingers) will agree that swinging is a better choice than cheating. So of the alternatives swinging seems one of the smarter choices.

 

Certainly when it comes to attitudes toward swinging then acceptance of it increases fast as IQ increases. Acceptance doesn't necessarily translate into practice but I think it reasonable to conclude that those most accepting of swinging are more likely to practice it if they are in the multiple partner market.

[BiloxiCouple 695]

megauxurious,

 

You don't quote your sources and numbers. Then you "assume and probably" stuff and "if" the information. You used numbers/percentages in multiple places and you don't quote where your information is coming from. If you can throw this information around like this you have a source or more than likely just making it up and talking big.

 

LIST YOUR SOURCE SO WE CAN VERIFY FOR OURSELVES.

 

Your writing is tortured because of the previous stated problems.

 

Then you don't listen to us.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Personally, I'm just the giggle in the think tank .....

 

We never crunched numbers to get where we are now.

 

Strange perhaps, I dont know ?

[socolais 696]

So, sign me up for the Mensa house party.....

 

I've never thought of myself as "sexually successful". I think I prefer "sexually lucky as hell".

[BiloxiCouple 695]

I'm not a number cruncher either, but dang it, if you quote it, list it. Otherwise, all I have to go on is the spillage your are spouting and I don't believe everything written or spoken.

 

Besides when I am doing the horizontal pelvic thrust action my intelligence quotient suffers terribly so I can engorge my penile activity with the proper fluids.

[ratimadan 75]

It is reasonable to asume that people more intelligent than the general population, or, more intelligent than average, are more accepting of partner swapping, i.e., swinging for sexual activity, including sexual intercourse with another couple's spouse, that is, wife husband or mate. It seems that on the whole they are more accepting of other alternative lifstyles such as homosexuality.

 

So, in that sense swinging is certainly an "intelligent" choice to satisfy one's desire for sexual intercourse with a sex partner other than your own spouse. It is also probable that intelligent people will choose to partner swap with another couple/s for enjoyment of sexual intercourse and thereby satisfy the very natural desire for sexual variety that sex with multiple partners offers and thereby seek sexual satisfaction. The more intelligent folks are therefore more likely to prefer to swing and partner swap with another couple for sexual intercourse than pursue the alternative of cheating on their spouse or mate. That is definitely an intelligent or prudent choice as far consentual extramarital sexual activity is concerned.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

The research shows .....

 

I'll beat BiloxiCouple's dead horse...

 

 

WHAT RESEARCH!??????

 

Cite your sources!

[IvoryTowers 380]

You are confusing "more accepting" with "more intelligent", two factors that often correlate, but not always. Those of us who are liberal progressives like to think that greater intelligence leads to greater open mindedness and acceptance, but it simply doesn't work that way (not always).

 

What about people who are accepting of astrology, alien abduction, crystal healing, past life regression, etc? Is their acceptance of these ideas proof that they are automatically more intelligent?

 

Wanting to have lots of sex with a a variety of partners is, IMHO, proof only that you want to have lots of sex with a variety of partners.

[megauxurious 15]

OK I have given pointers to where you can find my sources before but let me try again.

 

The swinger survey I am referring to is:

 

Today's alternative marriage styles: the case of swingers

Curtis Bergstrand & Fennifer Blevis Williams

 

and the study showing peak sexual success at moderately below average IQs is:

 

Gene Expression: Intercourse and Intelligence

Jasson Malloy

 

Both are easily found online. The latter particularly contains a lot of other references if you want to go into it.

 

My source on Kohlberg's theories are my psychology textbooks but his theories and empirical research on them can be found quite easily online - as I pointed out a few posts ago.

 

I don't think its all that important though. Ratimadan argues well that given the range of alternatives swinging is obviously an intelligent choice - quite apart from whether there is an IQ correlation or not.

 

Nevertheless I am convinced that it is also true that intelligent people are more likely to make the swinger choice from the alternatives available and I think it likely that the average swinger is fractionally smarter than the general population average.

 

As a matter of interest IQ is negatively correlated with acceptance of astrology, alien abduction and the like but positively correlated with acceptance of alternative lifestyles like homosexuality, drug use and swinging. I'm afraid my source on that is my memory of lots of studies but if you really want to check it you can by accessing the General Social Survey which contains an abbreviated IQ test (called Wordsum) that can be correlated online with hundreds of survey questions.

 

Oh yes one of my sources of the relationship between IQ and attitude to swinging is my own research project relating sexual attitudes and behavior to personality. There is also my observation that among Mensa members swinging (both the practice of and tolerance toward) is far higher than even the most generous general population estimate. Granted that's not a scientific survey checked by some other scientist but I know its an underestimate because I only counted those who have confessed their practice or attitude to me personally.

 

So all my sources from the academic literature to my personal observations point in the same direction - from the alternatives swinging is both the choice of the smart and a smart choice.

[rpu3 630]

Nobody asked for pointers for where they could find it. They asked for direct citations. I'm straining my brain thinking of any journal article that gave its community "pointers" on where the readers could find the basis of the research and article. As a researcher - former or otherwise - you should have known to just provide the darn citations as requested at least 5 different times. Heck, my Spousal Unit can barely send me an e-mail with a recipe for dinner without citing his sources.

 

Thank you for finally providing something.

 

ETA: The Spousal Unit is chiming in that his dissertation would have been a hell of a lot easier if he could have just given his dissertation committee "pointers".

[megauxurious 15]

Look I don't propose to get into an arguement. I'm not here for that. I have been trying to get out of academic mode - not further into it. All I can say is that my giving you the direct sources in the manner of references to a thesis hasn't made it any easier for you to find them than if you just followed my pointers. If you were really interested you would have found them long ago.

 

Is it not permissable to mention research findings if I remember the conclusions but can no longer find the precise source? Most of my knowledge is like that. I don't have references in my head and I have copies of only a tiny fraction of the articles I have read. Yes if need be I can probably find sources for everything I say but it will sometimes cost me weeks of work. Sometimes I am going to think 'just take my word for it, look it up yourself or tell me I'm talking rubbish' because its just too much trouble to look for the source. I am not trying to do research on the forum so I don't have to satisfy a professor or the academic world. I'm just trying to have an interesting conversation here - not establish my academic credentials. I was telling you what I think the relationship is between intelligence and swinging and why I think so. Please regard it as a light conversation.

 

I feel this requirement for me to provide full sources on demand for everything I say on this forum is just anal where it doesn't need to be. Nevertheless if my failure to provide my sources in the form you demanded, or when you demanded them, upset you, then I sincerely apologise. I do want to keep people happy even if I don't live up to it.

[rpu99 44]

The rule is simple: "Cite it or lose it". If you can't cite scientific findings, that you must not refer to them or base your argument on them. I have few hard copy journal articles left in my home or office; thank God for E-journals! I can find citations i need in a matter of minutes now, not days, hours, or weeks. I will admit i do miss the smell of the journal stacks i visited before everything has begun to be stored online.

 

To not cite, or to not provide cites when requested to do so demonstrates a lack of academic rigor (aka laziness). To require your readers to follow hints like a trail of breadcrumbs does them a discourtesy. Perhaps more importantly, human memory is a reconstructive process, not a file drawer or video tape. To revisit original sources before presenting ideas/opinions on those sources insures that those sources are represented accurately and fairly. I have worked quite hard on the few articles i actually published. I want people to actually cite the folks who did the work when they discuss that work. Especially if they mistakenly or intentionally misrepresent those findings.

 

Let me offer that you are being continually urged to cite your sources because you have not established your credibility and/or you have written something that several of the very bright folks here want to research further. By not citing sources your scientific credibility is difficult to establish. And you have been discussing research, not just simply "conversing" on the board. It is these types of "sciency" threads that are typically held to a higher credibility threshold (e.g. need cites).

[newadventres 6]

rpu99 said:

The rule is simple: "Cite it or lose it". If you can't cite scientific findings, that you must not refer to them or base your argument on them.

 

To not cite, or to not provide cites when requested to do so demonstrates a lack of academic rigor (aka laziness).

 

I'll express my opinion on a blog/forum based on my education and experience. If you find something I say interesting and or unbelievable shoot me an email I'll guide you towards the source that I based my decision on. It is then up to you to research it, agree with me or disagree.

 

If we are in a business proposal or any other official capacity my sources will be reviewed and accurately quoted.

 

But your insinuation that anyone should provide sources on an opinion blog/forum is absurd and is not the place for it.

 

Whats next? be at a swing club sitting around the table having a discussion, would you require me to have my resources available.

 

if you desire a one on one debate lets move to a private room or discussion not on a general forum board.

 

I have to go with megaux on this one.

[TNT 1,155]

megauxurious said:

OK I have given pointers to where you can find my sources before but let me try again.

 

The swinger survey I am referring to is:

 

Today's alternative marriage styles: the case of swingers

Curtis Bergstrand & Fennifer Blevis Williams

 

and the study showing peak sexual success at moderately below average IQs is:

Gene Expression: Intercourse and Intelligence

Jasson Malloy

 

Both are easily found online. The latter particularly contains a lot of other references if you want to go into it.

 

Today's Alternative Marriage Styles: The Case of Swingers. EJHS 2000

 

Gene Expression: Intercourse and Intelligence

 

You're right, both were easily found on-line.

 

They were both also easily linked here as well. Something anyone of reasonable intelligence could have done, once asked. I don't understand why it was such a frigging big deal why you couldn't have done so in the first place . We link articles and reference sources here all the time, it really isn't that difficult....hell, I'm a dumb blonde and I was able to do it.

 

 

Teresa

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Today's Alternative Marriage Styles: The Case of Swingers. EJHS 2000

 

I remember seeing this info back in the day... Looks pretty old school and outdated now? From my observation....

[rpu3 630]

I'll express my opinion on a blog/forum based on my education and experience. If you find something I say interesting and or unbelievable shoot me an email I'll guide you towards the source that I based my decision on. It is then up to you to research it, agree with me or disagree.

 

If we are in a business proposal or any other official capacity my sources will be reviewed and accurately quoted.

 

But your insinuation that anyone should provide sources on an opinion blog/forum is absurd and is not the place for it.

 

Ummmm, I'm pretty sure there was no insuinuation there. And I'm not sure why, in the context of this particular four-page long thread with multiple requests for the basis of OP's opinions, rpu99's opinion is considered absurd. It's no more absurd than your opinion is and no poster here should feel stifled from giving their two cents as long as its not derogatory.

 

Whats next? be at a swing club sitting around the table having a discussion, would you require me to have my resources available.

 

if you desire a one on one debate lets move to a private room or discussion not on a general forum board.

 

I have to go with megaux on this one.

 

Ummmm, this kind of conversation is allowed and welcomed on this Board, and it's not necessary to go to PM. Debating occurs all the time here. It would be pretty quiet if one were to keep debates off the forum. What good would it do to keep valuable and interesting points offline?

[Chicup 41]

Let's not let this get completely derailed by the whole citing your literature sub topic.

 

Much research out there, in any field, is dubious in validity. One of my better classes in grad school was reading a few 100 research papers and tearing them apart for unfounded conclusions, poor statistical analysis and that sort of thing. This was in hard science with real measurable numbers. Sexual research in things like swinging is all fuzzy numbers of self reported samples. I wouldn't take much of it as worth much beyond a general direction to look.

 

We almost have to go by our own anecdotal evidence as swingers. I personally take evidence I know from more general sexual theories as related to evolutionary biology and my own experiences as a swinger. Its anecdotal, its not publishable, but its the best I have. Megauxurious can also be forgiven, at least by me, in that there are many papers I read which I cite the information, but I can't recall even the author. Who did it doesn't matter when it comes to personal information, its what was discovered. Occasionally I have gone back to find my source material for posting here, but only because I have it available in my home library.

 

The overall problem I have, and as such I will admit my theories only apply to a subset of swingers, is that we as a rule have only hung out with better than average intelligence swingers. This is part of our attraction factor, and as such its easy to make mistakes and put the general swinging population into that grouping which may not be true. An analogy is after an election where someone can't believe someone they didn't vote for won because 'well none of my friends voted for him', forgetting that they have friends who mostly think like them, and it is not a representative sample of the population.