Vanilla friends ever push your sexual buttons?

[VanHlebar 187]

This post is sort of tied in with the Playdar thread but I had a couple other questions so thought I would start a seperate thread.

 

Have any of you ever had any of your vanilla friends, specifically couples, that just pushed your sexual buttons? We have some friends that we have known now for a couple of years but that we just really started to get to know better this past summer. We have been playing cards with them, going to clubs, MrsVan and the wife usually meet at least once a week to have lunch and girl time together etc etc.

 

The wife just seems to always push my buttons. I really think she knows what she is doing I think she enjoys doing it. I can be good most times, but when someone starts to do certain things or say certain things around me I am like a shark to blood. I just start flirting back and then it is downhill from there.

 

This couple has said and done a lot of things that have really set off our Playdar, but to be honest I wonder how much is really setting off the Playdar and how much is us, or more likely me, wanting it to go off if that makes sense. The wife just does it for me, and I can't even put a finger on why.

 

This leads to yet another question for you. We all know the great piece of advice that is always given out "Make friends of swingers, not swingers friends." And we firmly believe in this advice. So what would you do if you found out that your friends of say a few months turned out to be in the LS? You knew them strictly as vanillas but then something comes out and you both realize that you both where hiding the same secret? Would that/does that change anything for you? Especially if you where attracted to them?

 

I think in this situation for us it might open up things and allow everyone to be a little more "open" but since in this case, they have become such great vanilla friends we would not want to risk losing or screwing up that friendship over a good time in the sack.

 

So what say you all?

[redgirlwithfrec 33]

i think that if you were both hiding the same thing and somehow you found out about it then it wouldn't be as big of a deal if any then lets say you were overtly trying to convert your friends. The funny thing is in this case if they are already lifestyle friendly she may have been testing the waters to try and convert you lol.

[turnuptheheat 98]

Oh, stuff like that happens all the time!

It can be very frustrating!

On a recent wine tour on a limo bus, I ended up with a bra as ear warmers. It was not my wife's but a pretty lady who was flying solo. I got a lap dance from another vanilla and oh how the gears were turning!

I think it was just folks letting down their hair and while who knows where it COULD go, I don't think it was meant to lead us to the bedroom.

[VanHlebar 187]

Oh, stuff like that happens all the time!

It can be very frustrating!

On a recent wine tour on a limo bus, I ended up with a bra as ear warmers. It was not my wife's but a pretty lady who was flying solo. I got a lap dance from another vanilla and oh how the gears were turning!

I think it was just folks letting down their hair and while who knows where it COULD go, I don't think it was meant to lead us to the bedroom.

 

And this is exactly how we feel with our friends. A lot of the conversation started because they watched Swingtown when it was on CBS and somehow it came out that we also watched it. They have also had a few "slips" as we where talking to them about how we have friends that keep trying to get us to goto a local gay club, but we explained that we wouldn't be able to goto the bar because my daughter frequents the particular club with her girlfriend and well it would be strange. So then our vanilla friends have "slipped" and said to us a few times, "So have you guys made it up to the swingclub...oh wait I mean gay bar with your friends."

 

At nothing else we think they either know about us or have their suspicions about us. They don't seem to care if they do know. Like you said though it can seriously be frustrating...like the time we where all out dancing and while I was dancing with her in a way that most guys would not dance with a woman, I didn't think it was all that bad. Well she grabbed my crotch...but I chalked it up to the alcohol that she was drinking.

 

-Van

[ownerspet 506]

It sounds like they may be in the lifestyle or interested in the lifestyle. It could be either one. However, there is still the third possibility that they aren't involved in the lifestyle, have no interest in the lifestyle, know that you are in the lifestyle, are not judging you for being in the lifestyle, and just really drunk (when she grabbed your crotch on the dance floor).

 

Although I find it odd that a woman (non-swinger or swinger) with no sexual interest, would grab your crotch even under the influence of alcohol. (even a woman that is really good freinds with you and your wife) This is really a bold action for someone to take, even for heavy flirting. My conclusion would probably be that they are at least interested in swinging and find you two as a couple attractive.

 

It may be time to flat out ask them, What kind of "lifestyle" do you two live? with an emphasis on the lifestyle word, Or flat out ask them, when they are together in a non-threatening manner, "Are ya'll swingers?" Then wait and see what their reaction is (a casual smile on your faces might help).

 

Then if they say "no, why would you ask that?"

 

You could always respond with, "we were just wondering because it sounded odd that you mistakenly asked us about going to a swingers club."

 

Followed up by, "we didn't think much of it and thought it was just mis-use of verbage, until she grabbed my crotch on the dance floor... then it just made us wonder."

 

It's probably easier said than, done.

 

But, I'd think if they aren't swingers and not at all interested in the lifestyle, they are probably going to come off as apologetic about grabbing your crotch especially if they don't know you are in the lifestyle. Even if they retort with we know you're in the lifestyle, you can always respond with something like, "It was hot, but It just really caught me by surprise."

 

That's my 2 cents....

[ncmd_couple 597]

Rule #1 - Honesty.

 

You have a lot of leads here. They were watching Swingtown. The dancing, other things like asking about the swinger's club. When the alcohol is not a factor, ask them if they are swingers. I have been asked this question, and answered it honestly. If they aren't swingers and just playing their own fantasies, and you still want to be friends with them, the level the playing feel with honesty between the four of you.

 

S

[VanHlebar 187]

Rule #1 - Honesty.

 

You have a lot of leads here. They were watching Swingtown. The dancing, other things like asking about the swinger's club. When the alcohol is not a factor, ask them if they are swingers. I have been asked this question, and answered it honestly. If they aren't swingers and just playing their own fantasies, and you still want to be friends with them, the level the playing feel with honesty between the four of you.

 

S

 

Oh we wouldn't stop being friends with them if we found out that they where not in the LS. We really enjoy them as friends period which is why to us, even if they where in the LS we might never go that direction with them. We value their friendship way more than the chance to get naked with them...but you just never know.

 

Things seems to keep coming up when we are with them and it will just go at whatever pace it goes at.

 

Like I said in the original post, it is more just that she pushes my buttons almost every time we are together and it just amusing and sometimes frustrating.

 

-Van

[sweet_tna 680]

One of my close girlfriends is definitely vanilla, though Mr. Sweet and I dearly wish she weren't.

 

As for your friends, I'd be inclined to think that if they're not in the lifestyle already, they've definitely given it some thought. I can be pretty flirtatious and have trouble remembering to dance "vanilla style", but I'd never grab a guy's crotch unless he were a playmate and I was 100% sure it was okay with him and his wife.

 

I'd suggest that it's time to talk to your friends. Sometime when ya'll are all together and everyone's sober, just take the direct approach and come out and ask.

 

Good luck,

 

=)

[MrkLin 393]

I guess my first question to you, VanHlebar, is this; all things being equal, and if they were an LS couple, would you want to move things along and play with them? If the answer for both of you is yes, read on. If no, then you have the answer already, and can just enjoy the fun, flirting, and occasional crotch grabs.

 

I'm the first one to admit the fact that I'm a cultural infidel. I don't watch much TV at all, so as a result, I've never seen Swingtown, and don't even know which night of the week it's on. But since it appears that all of you watch it, why not invite them over one night to watch it with you? Make it like 'movie night.' You know - snacks and drinks - things like that. Lord knows you'll probably find lots to talk about either during the commercial breaks, or after the show. It might even give you the opening you're looking for to approach the subject with them. Who knows? Swingtown night might just turn into a weekly thing, if everyone has fun with it.

 

If it comes out that they're considering the LS, then there you go. If it turns out that they're not, then you had a fun night with some good friends.

 

We've had some vanilla friends who have pinged our playdar a time or two, but none as strongly as the situation you describe. I'll admit to dropping subtle hints here and there in a non-verbal manner. I've left the Swinger's Board and SLS website loaded in a web browser, though minimized. Anyone looking at our monitor can look down at the taskbar and see that one of us is perusing sites that deal with the subject. I've also used swinger's terminology like 'vanilla' to describe certain things.

 

I do think you missed an opening when they asked about the swing club. It may very well have been an honest mistake, but it could have also been them trying to give you an opening, or get a reaction.

 

I do understand your concern in losing a pair of good friends if you're wrong, and agree with you completely in not doing anything to screw that up. It does, on the other hand, sound like they're raising the bar on you.

[VanHlebar 187]

I guess my first question to you, VanHlebar, is this; all things being equal, and if they were an LS couple, would you want to move things along and play with them?

 

This would be an emphatic YES!!!!

 

If we had met them inside the LS first we would have already been naked a number of times!

 

I am think the way this is going to play out is that we might take a stab at broaching the subject if and when the sexual inuendo peaks again. Until then the flirting will remain just that, flirting...

 

-Van

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

Like I said in the original post, it is more just that she pushes my buttons almost every time we are together and it just amusing and sometimes frustrating.

 

-Van

 

Imagine this dialogue in private from the other couple...

Husband: "How's it going? You seem frustrated tonight?"

Wife: "I've been trying like mad to send every single I can think of to Van, but he just doesn't seem to get it. Short of hitting him over the head with a sledgehammer, I don't know what else to do. I've flirted heavily with him, talked dirty I don't know how many times, grabbed his crotch, danced dirty with him, asked him if he's been to the swing club, and he still doesn't seem to get it.

Husband: "Well, maybe you need to be more blunt and just ask him straight up."

Wife: "I can't do that! You know I'm not THAT forward! I just want to have sex with him soooo badly. Why isn't he getting the message? I'm about to give up"

 

 

You know, it's possible.

[VanHlebar 187]

Imagine this dialogue in private from the other couple...

Husband: "How's it going? You seem frustrated tonight?"

Wife: "I've been trying like mad to send every single I can think of to Van, but he just doesn't seem to get it. Short of hitting him over the head with a sledgehammer, I don't know what else to do. I've flirted heavily with him, talked dirty I don't know how many times, grabbed his crotch, danced dirty with him, asked him if he's been to the swing club, and he still doesn't seem to get it.

Husband: "Well, maybe you need to be more blunt and just ask him straight up."

Wife: "I can't do that! You know I'm not THAT forward! I just want to have sex with him soooo badly. Why isn't he getting the message? I'm about to give up"

 

 

You know, it's possible.

 

:lol: This made me just about spit my lunch out of my mouth when I read the email today! I can't really see the other wife saying anything like that, but that is only because I am an ugly bald guy. She might say some of the earlier items of hitting me over the head with a sledgehammer and to be honest, I am pretty slow when it comes to woman flirting with me. Even when they are obvious I tend to miss it and MrsVan just looks at me like I am a dork.

 

-Van

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

This made me just about spit my lunch out of my mouth when I read the email today! I can't really see the other wife saying anything like that, but that is only because I am an ugly bald guy. She might say some of the earlier items of hitting me over the head with a sledgehammer and to be honest, I am pretty slow when it comes to woman flirting with me. Even when they are obvious I tend to miss it and MrsVan just looks at me like I am a dork.

 

-Van

 

Haha!

 

Well, it's easy sometimes to get unintentionally wrapped up in our own perspectives and not be able to step off our thought train for a moment and consider other vantage points. Reminds me of a book I read in college called "Ways of Seeing". As I recall, the book had passage after passage describing the same, simplistic, everyday scene...and each passage told it from a completely different perspective.

 

I agree with others here. If you value this couple's friendship, attempting to raise the subject might be dicey and crash the friendship. If you can readily imagine not having them as friends, and losing them as friends doesn't have significant consequences beyond losing a friend, then maybe it's worth a shot. Only you and MrsVan can evaluate that.

 

My wife can be fairly oblivious at times. She's a very intelligent and readily capable of multi-tasking...which she frequently does. The result of that is it's hard for her to notice things sometimes. I've used this to my advantage around Christmas and birthdays before We've had great chuckles out of some of the things she's been oblivious to. I've pointed out men's reactions to her sometimes, and she just didn't notice.

 

Being bald, by the way, doesn't make you ugly. My wife just today was remarking about how she'd gladly hop in bed with Patrick Stewart. His bald head added to it for her. Looking at your profile; you gotta get this monkey off your back that you're ugly The monkey is ugly, not you You and your wife seem an attractive couple.

[knb2004 364]

Generally, I agree with the sentiment that you don't try to turn friends into swingers. However, as has been so amply noted here, there are definitely signs on the wall that you wouldn't be turning friends into swingers, you'd just all be admitting what everyone already suspects but is afraid to say out loud.

 

My advice: Tell them you're in the lifestyle. Make it clear that it need not change the relationship if they are not, nor will it change things if they are, but for whatever reason taking it to the next level is not going to happen.

 

We make no secret about our lifestyle to our real friends, and have never damaged any relationship as a result. We've never swung with anyone that we didn't meet via a traditional lifestyle venue, though there is one couple that we've come close with. I think sometimes we swingers perhaps go a bit too far with the discretion thing. No, I don't want my boss to find out because I don't know what the reaction would be and I must assume that it could be extreme. No, I don't want my mom to find out because I DO know what the reaction would be, and extreme wouldn't even begin to cover it. However, people who are granted friend status, which is a big deal, all know. If you are our friend, you know the real us, not some facade we put on.

 

If anyone ever did have a problem with it, that's okay as it simply means they're someone I don't want to associate with in the first place.

 

She grabbed your cock, fer Chrissake, I can't imagine they'd react with shock and horror knowing their preexisting assumptions are accurate, even if a little drunk cock grabbing is as far as they'd ever be willing to take it.

[ratimadan 75]

To us it sounds like the couple (or the female) is trying to feel you out as to whether or not you swing as a couple, or, whether or not you would be open to swapping mates for sexual intercourse and /or fucking each other's spouse.

 

I would ask them if they have considered swinging and swapping mates with another couple for social fun as well as having sexual intercourse with another couple's spouse or mate. At the minumum I would ask what they think about the swinging lifestyle where couples do go outside of normal societal marital bounds and enjoy sexual intercourse by swapping mates with another couple/s, or more plainly what they think about fucking someone else's wife or hubby. If they revolt at the thought they are confirmed vanillas.

 

There is very little to lose by way of friendship if you pose the question diplomatically so that does not elicit a simple yes/no answer. If they are ambivalent about the swinging lfestyle that still leaves the possibility of you swapping mates and getting the opportunity to fuck his wife.

[ncmd_couple 597]

There is very little to lose by way of friendship if you pose the question diplomatically so that does not elicit a simple yes/no answer. If they are ambivalent about the swinging lfestyle that still leaves the possibility of you swapping mates and getting the opportunity to fuck his wife.

 

Ratimadan,

 

Actually, there is a lot to lose with close friends, so bringing up swinging with them isn't something to be casual about, you have to think about it alot!

 

S

[TNT 1,155]

that is only because I am an ugly bald guy.

 

Ugly? In what frigging universe? Definitely not this one. Bald is HOT!

 

 

As to your original question...that's a tough one...tell our friends or don't tell our friends, hmmm. We did have a vanilla couple one time that the sexual innuendos went on for years...we had been swinging for a couple of years before they found out we were swingers...we didn't tell, the other wife asked what I thought about her giving her husband a FMF threesome for his birthday and asked if I'd ever done anything like that. Considering she is my best friend and when asked a direct question, I don't lie...I said yes. The end result was we all wound up in bed one night and to this day we're still the best of friends.

 

I have to agree with the others who have made comments about her grabbing your crotch...I've, ummm, been drunk a few times in vanilla and swinging settings but, I've never grabbed a man's crotch that I didn't want to fuck.

 

I think your best course of action is just to continue to enjoy the flirting and let things progress as they may...who knows where things will lead. The important thing is to just have fun with it...if eventually it does come out that they are interested in playing great, if not that's also great as you two enjoy their company.

 

 

Teresa

[VanHlebar 187]

So it has been a while since I updated this thread and man has so much happened since the holidays! I think I posted a little bit in a different thread but things have moved along a bit and we are all just taking things as they come and enjoying the journey, if you will.

 

The first major event that happened around my birthday, we started playing sequence and the husband of the other couple decided to turn it into a "strip" sequence game. Us guys lost our ass (and closed) and the ladies where down to just their bras. The evening ended just like that, the guys being naked and the ladies not...Mrs Van and I left more confused than ever, but agreeing that we really did have a great time. We talked with the couple quite a bit over the course of the next couple of weeks and realized that they had no regrets over the situation and in fact seemed to have fun.

 

Since the husband and myself share the same birthday, we had long ago planned a joint bash with them and a bunch of our friends. We all went out and had a fantastic time. Lots of flirting among everyone just partying. At the end of the night I went to give the wife a hug good bye and she drops a big old wet kiss on my ass in front of our friends. We all kind of stressed for a bit over that, but in the end either nobody saw or they where too drunk to really understand what happened. During the evening it was finally confirmed with the other couple that they where very interested in us not only as good friends, but sexually, but everyone was very concerned with screwing up such a great friendship. The other wife said that if all our friends hadn't been around at the party, that she would have been all over Mrs Van, but she was also not sure if Mrs Van was really interested in her. So I had to explain that yea she was more than interested, but she would never make the first move because with the other wife telling us before that she has never been with another woman, Mrs Van didn't want to over step if the other wife wasn't willing. So we basically let it drop at that point and never really had time to get back together with the couple for all of March because of conflicting schedules etc etc etc...

 

Then the "big" event happened last night. Big joke between the four of us after the naked sequence was the Van doesn't wear underwear and that just by chance the night of sequence, both Mrs Van and I actually had done our "landscaping". So before going over I was texting the wife to see if they needed us to pick anything up before coming over. She indicated no, but that her hubby said make sure I wear underwear this time! Eventually we started playing a different game called Cranium? (side note, very fun game) and of course after the first game one or both of us guys tossed out the idea of one more game for clothes again. Eventually the ladies lose this time and they are naked. The husband I guess didn't want the evening to end, so mentions that we should all head out to the hot tub. So we proceed out to the hot tub and as everyone knows, nothing good ever comes out of 4 friends naked in a hot tub!

 

Mrs Van was broken so there was not much that we could do, but we did more than enough! The ladies had a ton of time together making out and exploring each other and us guys had fun with both ladies just exploring. Nothing more than kissing and groping and fondling, but wow! At one point as the wife was sitting in front of my pressed against me and we where just relaxing and fondling I whispered to her that this is exactly why Mrs Van and I are always so confused around the two of them. They keep moving the line on us and blurring things. We both just chuckled and left it at that.

 

Both Mrs Van and I have talked with them today and everything seems great. The other wife made a comment about having a blast and glad that we where able to leave something for next time. I just said that it wasn't a race, that we should all just enjoy the journey wherever it might end.

 

Sorry for the long post, but there was a ton to update on. I still would NOT recommend this route for most people. It has taken a ton of discussions with this couple and constant paranoia on our end that we have screwed things up over and over again over the past 4-5 months. One mis-step very well could have ruined things between us, but in the end so far it seems to be working. Just very strange to find what you are looking for when you really where not looking for it. If that makes sense.

 

There is a chance that the wife might stop here...I have highly recommended the sight to them as a great tool. She already found the sight and read some of my posts by "accident" she says. Hopefully she will stop in and maybe can shed some light on the entire process from their point of view at some point.

 

-Van

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Congrats to you guys! I hope things continue smoothly. Like you said, communication is the key here... keep it going

[VanHlebar 187]

Congrats to you guys! I hope things continue smoothly. Like you said, communication is the key here... keep it going

 

Thanks Julie! We have done all that we can to point them here to the board. We have traded a couple very long emails recently discussing some more personal items and the wife made a comment that the never ever thought they would be in this spot and never thought they would ever be having these types of discussions.

 

So since we have posted at length here about all of our issues and how much help everyone here is, we really hope they stop in and at least do some research and maybe even ask some questions. We'll see what happens, we are scheduled to take a 5 day trip with them to Tampa here in a couple of weeks...

 

-Van

[JustMrJ 178]

I agree MrVan... communication is absolutely the key here. Honest, open communication.

 

Pointing them at the board is a good idea, but have either of you, or both of you told either or both of them that you are in the LifeStyle?

 

Also, I see that the other lady seems to be taking the initiative with you, is the other husband equally flirtatious with your lovely bride?

 

Before any 'full' adventure, definitely make sure both of them are agreeable. Although from the 'hot tub' story, it appears that they both are pretty darn agreeable...

[WesternSwing 504]

So what would you do if you found out that your friends of say a few months turned out to be in the LS? You knew them strictly as vanillas but then something comes out and you both realize that you both where hiding the same secret? Would that/does that change anything for you? Especially if you where attracted to them?

If we found out that they are experienced swingers I think we'd go there since it could be fabulous. If they were just wading in the shallow end though, I think we'd pass. We wouldn't want to be the ones that showed them the lifestyle isn't for them and somehow strain our already good friendship.

[Guest MrsVan]

Also, I see that the other lady seems to be taking the initiative with you, is the other husband equally flirtatious with your lovely bride?

 

Before any 'full' adventure, definitely make sure both of them are agreeable. Although from the 'hot tub' story, it appears that they both are pretty darn agreeable...

 

I figured I would chime in on this post lol..In regards to your question, yes the husband is flirtatious with me. He is not as flirtatious as the wife but that is just his personality but he has definetly come around since we have known them and has been more flirtatious than he has ever been to me.

 

So yes I would have to say that we all are on the same page and they are in full agreement. As we have told them, they are in control of the situation as we do not want to do anything or push anyone to do something they are not ready for. So we leave the ball in their court to figure out where to go next.

 

MrsVan

[VanHlebar 187]

So this thread hasn't been updated in a long time and I thought I would update it with the latest. Things have changed drastically over the past couple of months...all for the "good".

 

The other couple have clearly talked at length about the topic and they have set their boundaries and their rules and shared them with us. They have finally made it clear that they do want to play and now it is just a matter of the time being right. The wife has shared that she is very scared of how she is going to react seeing MrsVan pleasing her hubby. As we have explained, you just won't know until it happens if you will react positive or negatively, but if she or he starts to feel uneasy, to just let us know and we can stop. We can then either all talk it out together, or MrsVan and I can leave and they can talk together.

 

With all of life's "pleasantries" that we have had over the past couple of weeks who knows when that "right" time is going to be, nobody is in a hurry and we all are willing to just take is as it happens and feels natural. Our biggest concern with them is screwing up what has become a fantastic friendship, but they both have said multiple times, that they know fully what they are getting into and there is no reason to worry. We will see how it plays out (no pun intended).

 

-Van

[qreskupl7476 137]

This is a cool thread, and I'm glad it all seems to be working out. Right on!

 

We had a somewhat similar experience, but it turned out that the other couple was going through a short phase of "lifestyle curiosity", and when things started heating up a little, they backed out. We wish they wouldn't have, but we are happy that we're all still friends, and who's to say that someday they might not change their minds like your friends did? We certainly hope so, but if they don't, we at least have some cool vanilla friends out of the deal. We made the mistake of letting things progress a little to fast, without adequately communicating with them. It sounds like you're doing everything right however, and here's hoping for a long and beautiful friendship.

[LFM2 1,482]

I really hope this works out for all four of you. It sounds like it will!

[sweet_tna 680]

(crosses fingers) Keep us posted!

 

=)

[swvacouplelookn 33]

I have a thought about this. Perhaps you should suggest to your friends that maybe they should try playing with someone else first. That way they if they have anything negative to deal with it won't involve you guys. If they try it and like it elsewhere, then proceed to enjoy some fun with them! It takes the pressure of having to be their "test run" off of you guys, Van!

[sweet_tna 680]

I have a thought about this. Perhaps you should suggest to your friends that maybe they should try playing with someone else first. That way they if they have anything negative to deal with it won't involve you guys. If they try it and like it elsewhere, then proceed to enjoy some fun with them! It takes the pressure of having to be their "test run" off of you guys, Van!

 

You make a good point, there. Allow me to present the other side of the coin. We had our swinger cherries popped by good friends, and it worked out very well! There was a measure of comfort in being with them, because we knew and trusted them.

 

That said, we had already decided to give the lifestyle a try, whether anything happened with our friends or not.

=)

[swvacouplelookn 33]

You make a good point, there. Allow me to present the other side of the coin. We had our swinger cherries popped by good friends, and it worked out very well! There was a measure of comfort in being with them, because we knew and trusted them.

 

That said, we had already decided to give the lifestyle a try, whether anything happened with our friends or not.

=)

 

Yes, I do agree that the comfort and trust involved with friends cannot be matched in some club somewhere. However, I think if they can handle seeing someone else with their spouses in that environment doing it with friends should be much easier for them. It's really just mitigating risk within the already established friendship in my opinion. It will probably work out well either way, but at least this way they will know whether this is for them or not without risking the friendship.

[VanHlebar 187]

Well we have talked a lot more over the last week or so. The "green" light has been given that they are ready and want to play.

 

One of the things that has been brought up by the wife, is that one reason she feels so comfortable about experimenting with us is because we are so good friends. I think that sure there is potential for issues, but with all the talk that we have done just getting to this point, I am very confident that if something where to go wrong during play, that we would be able to talk about it and then decide one way or the other if we want to proceed. For us, even if we don't ever play or play once and then never again, they know how much they mean to us and I just don't see that changing at all. We all are very aware of the possibilities though and have agreed to just continue with how we have been going up to this point and that is talk about everything that happens.

 

-Van

[Just Passing By 140]

First glad things working so well for you guys. But even though you have passed through the initial steps, there are some things I'd like to throw out as to the origional situation.

People in a particular lifestyle (dictionary defination used here) can get over focused in their own perspectives and labels.

There is vanilla, and there is vanilla, and there is vanilla. Just because someone doesn't go to certain clubs, parties, websites, etc , doesn't mean they they aren't sexually charged, possably kinky,or open to playing with people if the opportunity presented itself.

If you are receiving signals that definate, but not in 'offical lifestyle code', then respond in the manner of an ' advanced vanilla '

The flirting and gropingwould have given the opportunity to say something along the line of " Wow ! So do you guys fool around or what ?" delivered with a strieght face. At that point they can agree, start a discussion, make specific offer, or laugh it off as a joke with little face lost. And you didn't expose yourself as a Lifestyle person, just as observent potentally openminded ( dictionary defination used here again) person.

[Tadahiko 156]

We're not swingers, so we don't have "vanilla" friends and "LS friends." BUt I can tell you that all of our sexual adventures have been with people with whom we already have close non-sexual relationships. Playing around with a very trusted friend or couple just seems 1) safer, 2) more rewarding, 3) healthier (knowing their history, following up in the future).

 

But it may be different for us. ANYONE who spends more than three or four hours with us learns of our liberal (and open-minded) sex life and how important our sexuality is to us. So it's not like there is something shocking or strange for anyone to "discover" about us.

[Swing*8701 887]

What happened !?

[VanHlebar 187]

What happened !?

 

Not much to report on this lately. Nothing has gone any further than more "grab ass" if you will and kissing. Mrs Van and I have a TON of crap going on in our personal lives right now and this couple has been great for us there as well. MrsVan and the other wife had a bit of a conversation this past week, which is important because up until now most of the talk had been between myself and the other wife or myself and the other husband.

 

It pretty much has been decided that until our personal life settles down some, that we really aren't going to push things here. If something happens it happens, but things will most likely stay with heavy flirting, "grab ass" and kissing for the foreseeable future. Just too much stress and we all realize that taking our friendship to the next level is most likely going to involve some emotional baggage and well, nobody wants to deal with it right now.

 

They where over today actually with some of the wife's family and we just had a great evening hanging around the pool.

 

-Van