Any advice for couples with a straight female?

[arvcpl 16]

I am hoping for some advice and specifically some insight from the ladies in regards to connecting to other women in a lifestyle setting.

 

My wife is ok with some physical contact with select women but she is not actually bisexual and really does not have an easy time connecting to other women even if it is nonsexual. She just doesn't have an interest in very many women's issues and she doesn't spend much time focusing on connecting with the other women. She has been told to her face by a number of women that in order to be comfortable enough to play they need to have a level of connection and comfort with the other woman even if they and the other women don't have sex with each other.

 

We have also been told by others that she intimidates other women because she is usually one of if not the most attractive women at the club or party and she comes off as ignoring the other women and at times inadvertantly comes off as snobbish. Then since she isn't chit-chatting with the women it makes a lot of the men turn their attention to her while the girls are chatting and that makes the other women that much more anxious with her around.

 

 

We both really are nice people and she is a kind and decent person but she just doesn't have that female bonding gene that so many other women in the lifestyle seem to have.

 

My question is does anyone have any advice or suggestions for couples where the female is straight and just has a hard time connecting with other women in the lifestyle? My questions for the ladies is what makes you connect with another woman enough to play even though you may not have direct sexual contact with her? Is there anything she can do short of 'eating at the Y' that will make other women more comfortable around her and feel less threatened by her? Is there anything that I can do that will help facilitate this?

 

When push comes to shove I think women are far more territorial and protective than men are and if the women feel the least bit threatened or aren't completely at peace with a situation it is game over.

[midnightplayer 135]

She is a special woman needing special attention. Seems to me that you should concentrate on finding a suitable male to join you for a mfm and concentrate on her needs and forget trying to find a couple where the other woman will connect with her on a mutual level. Two men can do the job wonderfully. Concentrate on this and you will be fine to start and get her to as many meet and greees as you can to expose her to couples she might connect with. Good luck

[arvcpl 16]

She is a special woman needing special attention. Seems to me that you should concentrate on finding a suitable male to join you for a mfm and concentrate on her needs and forget trying to find a couple where the other woman will connect with her on a mutual level. Two men can do the job wonderfully. Concentrate on this and you will be fine to start and get her to as many meet and greees as you can to expose her to couples she might connect with. Good luck

 

Yeah right, that sounds like the perfect answer coming from a single male:lol: Sorry dude if she wanted SMs she could line them up clear down the street and around the corner.

 

We are only interested in couples and we are a full swap couple and she does like some contact with a few highly select women. She just is has a hard time relating to women and is afraid that women are going to want her to do things with them that she won't want to do.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Why not just let it be ?

 

I know thats not much help. It is a good topic... I'll have to note this thread to Mrs fun when she returns...

 

Hopfully, we both get some insight...

[exploringRM 305]

I was thinking a similar thought last night at a meet and greet. Looking over the guest list, most if not all of the females are listed as bi. My wife is bi-friendly. Though we just started, she has discovered she enjoys kissing and caressing another female but she's not sure she'll every be comfortable with giving oral sex on a another woman. Her first experience was a couples lap dance at a strip club in vegas, which she enjoyed immensely..and the dance paid more attention to her than me I think (which was fun to watch!)

 

We do try to make it a point when we are getting to know a couple or through online contact of where she stands with another woman. We try to read the profile carefully to see if the other couple is ok with some FF play but not all AND that they are into soft of full swap.

[arvcpl 16]

Why not just let it be ?

 

...

 

 

That is a fair question and I'll try to address it. We are both very pleasant and attractive people and we both really enjoy being in the lifestyle. We both want to be more involved in lifestye activities than what we are and she often times herself asks, "what are we doing wrong?" She herself complains that we are not as accepted as she would like to be and that we don't have the friends she would like to have or play as often as she would like so this isn't just about me. She is a very warm and wonderful person but many people don't see that because she doesn't show them that side of her.

 

We have had several people tell her that she intimidates other women and that they are not comfortable around her because she does not make an attempt to bond with them or connect with them, even on a social or personal level let alone a sexual level.

 

I am not mean to point fingers at her or lay the blame on her as I know I bare responsibility as well. However I am doing all that I can already. I polish up, dress nice, I dance, I flirt, and I am as engaging as I can be but I am a middle aged average Joe. Unless I go on steroids, have cosmetic surgery and get a hair transplant I am not going to be any more desirable than I already am. If I do any more than I already am people will think of me as an "agressive male" and then we WILL be dead in the water.

 

I feel like I am operating at full output but that all she would need to do is lift a finger and do what so many other women seem to do naturally and it would have a huge impact and make a huge improvement. I used to think that I was holding us back simply because I was the male half and that we were a "she's hot/he's not" couple but I see other couples where the guy isn't anywhere near as attractive or outgoing as me and they swing circles around us.

 

I used to think that I was holding her back because she is so pretty and sexy. But I recently got to thinking what would happen if I just gave up and left it all up to her and I came to the realization that if I left it up to her NOTHING would happen. Nothing at all. We would sit at home alone and with nothing to do. She is pretty and sexy and wants to be involved but she does not take an active role in our lifestyle and it seems like the successfull couples are the ones where the female half if more of the social director rather than the male half.

 

I guess this post is turning into more of a rant and me blowing off steam but I sincerly do hope you folks have some thoughts and insights on this and have some recommendations for us.

[lustylearning 705]

Frankly, I'm surprised by your question. I'm bi, and 90% or more of the time I don't play with the other female. I'm in it for the men. If I connect with another woman, great. If not, I'm not disappointed. I don't think I'm that unusual. The other woman's "straightness," for lack of a better word, would never prevent me from playing, if I'm interested in the male.

 

Are you targeting other couples or do you allow them to come to you? If you let them come to you, is your wife the bait, while you are the passive bystander? If so, that may be part of the problem.

 

Why is being aggressive a problem? The aggressor can be just fine, if he can be respectful and take "no" gracefully. There's a difference between being aggressive and being an ass.

[arvcpl 16]

Frankly, I'm surprised by your question. I'm bi, and 90% or more of the time I don't play with the other female. I'm in it for the men. If I connect with another woman, great. If not, I'm not disappointed. I don't think I'm that unusual. The other woman's "straightness," for lack of a better word, would never prevent me from playing, if I'm interested in the male.

 

Are you targeting other couples or do you allow them to come to you? If you let them come to you, is your wife the bait, while you are the passive bystander? If so, that may be part of the problem.

 

Why is being aggressive a problem? The aggressor can be just fine, if he can be respectful and take "no" gracefully. There's a difference between being aggressive and being an ass.

 

I think you probably represent a huge percentage of the women in the lifestyle in that female play is not required. However i don't think our issue is necessarily directly because she is straight and doesn't want sex with other women but rather that she doesn't make the effort to socialize and connect with the other women.

 

so a question for you since I think you are perfect example of the ladies out there, if you met a couple and you were attracted to the guy but the woman pretty much ignored you and instead focused and flirted on your husband would you be more or less inclined to play with them? Now lets change the playing field a little more. Let's say you are at a club or party and there are several attractive couples. Are you more likely to play with the couple where both parties flirt with you and engage you and interact with you or are you more likely to go with the couple where the female half makes you feel like she is only interested in screwing your husband?

 

My point is 90% of the bi women out there are going to say that they do not require actual F/F sex and they are being sincere. But a couple where the female half is engaging and interacting with the female half is a lot more competitive and more "bang for the buck" than a couple where the fem tends to cold shoulder other fems.

 

See what I am getting at?

[arvcpl 16]

Frankly, I'm surprised by your question. I'm bi, and 90% or more of the time I don't play with the other female. I'm in it for the men. If I connect with another woman, great. If not, I'm not disappointed. I don't think I'm that unusual. The other woman's "straightness," for lack of a better word, would never prevent me from playing, if I'm interested in the male.

 

Are you targeting other couples or do you allow them to come to you? If you let them come to you, is your wife the bait, while you are the passive bystander? If so, that may be part of the problem.

 

Why is being aggressive a problem? The aggressor can be just fine, if he can be respectful and take "no" gracefully. There's a difference between being aggressive and being an ass.

 

Oh and no I do not use her as bait at all and I am not one of those guys that just sits there. I thought I had addressed that in a previous post but I am the assertive one and the one that makes about 99% of all of our introductions.

 

What my fear is is that since she is so socially passive that I am overcompensating and am coming off as an aggessive male that everyone fears so much. Yes there is a difference between being assertive and being an ass but people have a lot more issues and discomforts with a male approaching them and doing all the talking rather than the female.

[NotSorry 155]

We are new and so I don't have much actual experience to go on here but I am thinking that I would absolutely want to be on friendly terms with the female of the couple. Especially since we are new I need to feel friendly with all parties involved.

 

Have you talked to your wife? Does she think she needs to be more friendly with the women? If not then you guys need to talk about this, be on the same page so to speak. If so, encourage her to think about what she can change about her interactions with the female half in order to make a more friendly connection.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

Mrs. Not Sorry

[BiloxiCouple 695]

All four have to be interested in couple on couple.

 

Or take one for the team.

 

Or go into the Sub/Dom lifestyle.

 

Just looking at different options.

 

If you can't fix her then you have to work with her. Is she always socially passive or just in swinging she is like this? Just wondering if there could be an underlying reason for her actions.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

She just has a hard time relating to women and is afraid that women are going to want her to do things with them that she won't want to do.

This statement tells me that she lacks confidence. If she doesn't feel she can say "no" to another woman then she isn't going to see things change until she believes she can tell people how she feels - this includes men, and probably even you. She may not feel comfortable changing. She sounds passive to me and probably has seen more people drawn to her by her looks than a magnetic personality.

 

I can't tell your wife how to relate better to women. I think women either have that ability or don't. Some can work hard to develop it if they are willing to change themselves. But that shouldn't be attempted unless they are unhappy with who they are. Your wife may be perfectly happy with who she is in vanilla life and how she interacts with women.

 

If you weren't swingers would she ever consider interacting with women any differently? I feel there is only so much you can/should do to change/improve yourself in order to swing more. There comes a point where you have to face who you really are (the good and not so good), what you're capable of, whether you are being realistic, and whether what you want from swinging is even out there for you.

 

I had to walk away from the computer before finishing this post and I see you have already come back and said that you feel your wife is passive, so what I wrote above has been confirmed.

 

Looks can only help so much when swinging, because at some point it's your ability to make others feel good being around you that keeps them coming back.

 

LM

[lustylearning 705]

I think you probably represent a huge percentage of the women in the lifestyle in that female play is not required. However i don't think our issue is necessarily directly because she is straight and doesn't want sex with other women but rather that she doesn't make the effort to socialize and connect with the other women.

 

so a question for you since I think you are perfect example of the ladies out there, if you met a couple and you were attracted to the guy but the woman pretty much ignored you and instead focused and flirted on your husband would you be more or less inclined to play with them? Now lets change the playing field a little more. Let's say you are at a club or party and there are several attractive couples. Are you more likely to play with the couple where both parties flirt with you and engage you and interact with you or are you more likely to go with the couple where the female half makes you feel like she is only interested in screwing your husband?

 

My point is 90% of the bi women out there are going to say that they do not require actual F/F sex and they are being sincere. But a couple where the female half is engaging and interacting with the female half is a lot more competitive and more "bang for the buck" than a couple where the fem tends to cold shoulder other fems.

 

See what I am getting at?

 

Interesting. I would not have a problem playing the first time at all, if I'm more interested in the male of the couple than the men of the other couples with the friendly females - again, the key is the man (assuming my husband is equally interested in the woman). If I'm not more interested in the man, however, then the friendlier couple becomes more appealing. Swinging is a social activity as well as sexual one, and the friendlier couple would represent a more promising social interaction.

 

The connection with the other woman would become significant for me when a couple seeks repeat play. I may enjoy the first experience without it, but there won't be much beyond a second if I find nothing in common with the woman.

 

Perhaps, if you are the social initiator, and your wife is frustrated by the outcomes you've experienced, she should be challenged to initiate the interactions herself. I don't say it lightly. I know it can be difficult. But, she would suddenly be put in a position in which she would have to at least somewhat, charm the other woman. The exercise would boost her awareness of the other woman, and this may be all she needs to find the common ground needed to build a successful interaction on. I hate to say it, but she may just need to practice, practice, practice.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

The connection with the other woman would become significant for me when a couple seeks repeat play. I may enjoy the first experience without it, but there won't be much beyond a second if I find nothing in common with the woman.

 

LM

[MrkLin 393]

She is a very warm and wonderful person but many people don't see that because she doesn't show them that side of her.

 

This is just my opinion here, but I think this is the real issue, and not the fact that your wife is straight.

 

Lin is very straight, and doesn't want to kiss, fondle, or otherwise get physically involved with another woman at all. While we don't get together with every couple we contact, we aren't dismal failures either. We're up front about it in our SLS profile, and so far it's never been an issue with anyone we've met face to face. Sure, we've gotten replies from people we've contacted, saying something to the effect that they're not interested because Lin's not bi, but that's another topic for another thread. Our attitude is that if you're bi, great - just know that we're not. No worries. We can still get together and have a good time, play, and all four of us can go home with smiles on our faces. If your being bi doesn't bother us, why should our being straight bother you? Again - another topic for another thread, and please excuse my train of thought derailing here...

 

My point is that straight couples can be just as 'successful' as a couple in which the lady is bi.

 

We have had several people tell her that she intimidates other women and that they are not comfortable around her because she does not make an attempt to bond with them or connect with them, even on a social or personal level let alone a sexual level.

 

Again, this is just my opinion, but I think that if she were to be friendly, gracious, and allow herself to be open to conversation, you two would be a lot happier. I don't know that it's that she needs to take a more active role in meeting people - but she certainly needs to let people see the warm side of her personality. I know it can be hard for some folks to do, but the rewards are numerous. Then again, some people just aren't very outgoing. Such is life. It's very hard for one to change their personality. Oh, I know it happens, but it isn't easy. I think that if she makes the attempt to be friendly and warm when you're around other couples, she'll shake that 'intimidating' aura.

[twoforone100 45]

Agrees with lusty.... We do see both sides... One of us works the computer but in person we are equally involved... We tend to go after what we want and get it. Just being straight or shy is not really an issue.. but for repeats it gets to be very important.. Can you do other things with the couple.. movies, bowling, and and and....

 

For one night at a club or a party.. it's all good... YMMV

[Chicup 41]

What I think you are really asking has nothing to do with your wife being bi or straight.

 

Its basically 'What do I do when my wife is socially inept around other females?'

 

Its not that your wife being straight is making people do sexual math and figuring out they would rather have a couple with a bi-female. Yes this can happen I would imagine, but if your wife is as attractive as you say, then not all that often to you. Most couples we know in swinging are mostly 'bi-optional' and that normally only comes up AFTER we have done at least something soft from a couples perspective. This is due to my wifes own swinging idiosyncrasys, but bi is NEVER a determining factor for us.

 

As for answering your question, its really not a swinger question but one for a psychologist. I've been trying to help my wife change her behavior in swinging for a while now and when you are dealing with something thats a core personality type issue, there isn't much you can do for them, they have to figure it out on their own.

 

I feel for you in this because I have my own version. Mrs. Chicup's issue isn't connecting with other women on the social level, but connecting on a swinger level. Shes completely passive when it comes to closing the deal, out of unfounded insecurity, which makes her look like shes either not into it, or not interested, leaving me to be that over aggressive male as well.

 

Maybe your wife has her own insecurities in this as well. In mines case, shes also very attractive, and in my eyes at least normally in the top in terms of looks at any club or event we attend, but that doesn't keep her life long insecurities from popping up a bit.

[iapr 24]

I have a couple questions for you. Are either of you actually pissing people off and being asked to leave clubs and partys? Are people treating you with disdain and discust? Have you ever actually played with another couple before or have you always been rejected or have you spent your entire swinging career on the sidlines? Is either of you actually rude and causing problems or are you just not "scoring" as much as you would like to?

 

The most important question I have is how are you two getting along together and how are you enjoying your experiences together as a couple? I am picking up a little frustration and maybe even a little disappointment and bitterness in your posts.

 

I appreciate the fact that you say that she states she would like to be more accepted and to play more often but then wouldn't we all?? What I am trying to get at here is if either of you is actually making a mistake or if this is just your cross to bare. We all have our own hardships and limitations that keep us from functioning at 100% efficiency.

 

Here is a little personal analogy. In high school I lked playing football and I was a varsity fullback. I put my heart and soul into it and never missed a practice and spent the entire off seasons in the weight room. My coaches freguently patted me on the back and told me what good "spirit" and "heart" I had. By the end of my senior year all I accomplished was I received an invitation to "check out" (not a scholarship mind you) a football program at an obscure private college that hadn't had a winning season in decades. No Big Ten scholarships and no NFL draft for me. No matter how much I tried and no matter how much I did all the right things and made all the right moves I couldn't change the fact that I lacked the size, strength, speed and skill to make it big time. But I enjoyed the things I did do.

 

My point is people all function at a different level of performance. A person that is 100 lbs overweight is not going to have the same opportunities that a hard body will have and some one that is socially inept will not have the same opportunities as a social butterfly.

[Chicup 41]

My point is people all function at a different level of performance. A person that is 100 lbs overweight is not going to have the same opportunities that a hard body will have and some one that is socially inept will not have the same opportunities as a social butterfly.

 

Far more concisely put than mine.

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to iapr again.

[arvcpl 16]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice although you might make me face a few harsh realitys that I was hoping could just be easily swept away:rolleyes:

 

Anyway, I'll try and address a few points and questions. First off for those that say that this isn't really about sexual orientation you are probably correct. the reason I addressed the straight female aspect is because she points to a lot of women's bisexuality and is fearfull of it and afraid that they will want something from her that she may not want to do. I don't think her orientation is an issue at all but she does.

 

The real irony with that is that in reality with the right people she is no less bi than a lot of other women that consider themselves bi. I know I know, it confuses the shit out of me as well.

 

Yes she is very socially passive in vanilla life as well as in the lifestyle. She has a few close female friends from childhood but is otherwise pretty socially inert. She doesn't dislike people or tries to avoid social contact she is just not very outgoing or engaging.

 

Yes we have played with couples, a couple singles and have been in some groups before so it's not like we have never had any success. And no we have never been kicked out of a club and noone has ever made any indication that we are not a respectable couple.

 

Our relationship with each other is quite warm and sound and we do appreciate each other deeply and we enjoy our adventures together. I do not feel that I harbor any "bitterness" but perhaps some frustration. I look at many other couples at clubs and partys and they are less attractive than we are and less "motivated" but they seem to function so smoothly and things seem to happen so effortlessly with them and yet we seem to struggle and often have so little to show for it.

 

Part of my frustration comes from I used to think it was me holding us back but I look at these other men and they are no where near as attractive and outgoing as me and yet they are so much more successfull as couples than we are. Then I realised that the other women are just so much more in tune with each other and with the group than what my wife is. Part of that frustration is that I can change and adapt myself but I can't changer her.

 

She complains to me that we aren't well enough liked and accepted and I used to think it was because of me and I have spent a lot of blood sweat and tears trying to make myself more attractive and a better player but the lifestyle is so female oriented it that a lot of my efforts haven't really accomplished anything. While in the mean time the other guys with their pot bellys, unkempt hair and grungy jeans and t-shirts are seeing more success than me, so yeah I am a little frustrated here:mad:

 

I feel like I am going at full output and just can't do anymore than I already am. However she is the one complaining that we aren't having the success we should but yet 80% of a couple's success or failure depends on the female half and not the male half.

 

Anyway, I know I am just ranting here but I am frustrated. I do appreciate all of your suggestions and do ask that you keep them coming. I'm not sure what my course of action is going to be but I do appreciate the help.

[iapr 24]

 

 

Yes we have played with couples, a couple singles and have been in some groups before so it's not like we have never had any success. And no we have never been kicked out of a club and noone has ever made any indication that we are not a respectable couple.

 

Our relationship with each other is quite warm and sound and we do appreciate each other deeply and we enjoy our adventures together. I do not feel that I harbor any "bitterness" but perhaps some frustration. I look at many other couples at clubs and partys and they are less attractive than we are and less "motivated" but they seem to function so smoothly and things seem to happen so effortlessly with them and yet we seem to struggle and often have so little to show for it.

 

 

Since you are not batting a zero batting average and you are not having people confront you and get into your face I can't say that either of you are doing anything wrong or that there is anything to "fix." I looked through a variety of your old posts and you seem to talk the talk well and that you are getting out of the house so it's not like you are just spinning your wheels here

 

A couple things, as a general rule anytime someone pops off with frustration or goes off on a rant it is often due to unrealistic or unattainable expectations. Show me one post by anyone on here that says swinging is painless or easy.

 

Heck if it were this forum board would not exist and JustaskJulie would be out of a job and we would all miss her very much:lol:

 

The reality is you just can't fuck everybody. Think of it this way, 99.9999%of the world fantasizes about just one night out of our lives. Yes, if your wife were more outgoing and sociable and gregarious she would probably play more but that doesn't necessarily mean that YOU would play more. Maybe, maybe not. Either way if you feel that you are "at full output" and she is not then the ball is pretty much in her court and if she bitches about it then it is her responsibility to address it. You can support her and work with her but she has to do it.

 

Which brings me up to another one of my general rules and that is that IMHO the vast majority of problems people have in swinging come from within the dynamics of the couple and dont' really have anything to do with other people outside the relationship.

 

Have you addressed any of this stuff with her or have you just said, "ok honey, I'll see what more I can do." and then you head off to the gym and to the metrosexual spa to get your nails done so you are more attractive than the guys with the "unkempt hair and grungy jeans?" (I'm a baldy myself so I don't look down on the unkempt hair guys at all:angry:)

 

Bottom line is as I said before, we all have our own unique challenges and problems that keep us from obtaining all we want. Everyone performs at a different level and some people are just going to score more than others. you have to work with what you have. I have been to partys and conventions and saw people in wheelchairs and people that had to carry oxygen tanks with them and have even seen a 65 year blind guy with a cane and I doubt if they fucked everyone either but they all looked like they were having a good time at the party.

 

From your descriptions, your wife sounds like she performs socially at a lower level than some of the other gals and you are working hard to compensate for that and you are getting frustrated. If she wants to address it and improve her plight she can. If she doesnt' then you both have to live within your limitations.

 

Either way it is your frustration that can become the problem and bite you in the ass some day if you don't get a hold on that. Then that will be your problem.

 

Address the issues at home and the issues at the clubs will eventually take care of themselves.

[good times 991]

I totally agree with those that say this has nothing to do with whether your wife is bi or not, and has everything to do with whether she, or you for that matter, have the necessary social skills.

 

My wife and I are both straight, we are avid club goers and usually the first thing people know about us, usually even before we even meet, is that Mrs. GT is totally straight (the reason for this is a whole different story and not really relevant so I won't cover it here). This has never once, to my knowledge, had any effect on our being able to hook up with a couple who we were interested in. We have had couples we didn't click with and didn't hook up, but that was always either I wasn't into the woman or Mrs. GT wasn't into the guy. I am also a firm believer that this is usually how it is.

 

One of the most common problems we see is those folks who have poor social skills. And while we often hear one half of the couple blaming the other for having poor social skills, we have found that the ones who have trouble hooking up with others are usually typified by both of them being deficient in this department. Just from what you have said here, my guess is that both you and your wife have this problem. The fact is, if you haven't been tossed out of a club, or at least reprimanded for being too aggressive, you probably aren't even close. I can think of at least two couples that we know that have a better success rate at hooking up than most, that the wife is shy and reserved and almost never says anything, but the guy more than makes up for it. Heck we even know one couple who we kind of privately make fun of because they aren't that hot, but their social skills are so good that we are constantly having couples tell us they hooked up with them and regretted it, or if they had stopped to think about it for a minute they wouldn't have played with them. The fact is, in the lifestyle, if you can work the crowd like a used car salesman, you will probably have better luck than most.

 

I have to say, in our experience, if your wife is even as close to as hot as you say she is, then she isn't the problem. I can't tell you how many times we have ended up playing with someone that the women never said two words to each other before hand. While a small minority might actually require the two women to get along before any play happens, for most, if the guys are attracted to the girl of the other couple, and the girls feel the same about the guy, the only thing stopping it is a lack of social skills.

 

From our experience for the vast majority of couples, at least the couples who are not just interested in girl/girl play, interaction between the women is rarely necessary for play to happen. In other words, if the woman of the other couple thinks you are hot, and her husband thinks the same about your wife, you are good to go. All that being said, keep in mind that hotness can often be influenced greatly by attitude. So, if your wife is one of those people that opens her mouth and a guy automatically thinks she is a stuck up bitch, no amount of social skills on the planet are going to get them in the sack with you. In the off chance that that is the case, I don't know of anything you could do about it, because changing or trying to hide ones true personality and attitudes is almost impossible, in my opinion.

[slevin 1,374]

If your wife was posting here and talking about this from her perspective we might be able to be more help to her, and you

[ncmd_couple 597]

WHEEEEET(whistle blowing)!!!!! Time Out!

 

Ok, it is 1:31 in the morning for me. So bare with me.

 

You are judging your performance as a couple based upon your perceptions of the performance of other couples. This is your fundimental mistake. You need to judge your relationship within your relationship. Not by your perceived relationship of others, or their performance in swinging.

 

Happiness for the two of you is with the two of you, not what you perceive of others. The relationship that my wife and I have has nothing to do with what happens at a club or party for others. It is based upon the love and fun that we have together, whether we play with others or not. It is the openess and honesty that we share with each other. The love we have for each other. And our enjoyment of the open and sexy environment at the club.

 

You don't need to change you or your wife. You need to change the yard stick that you are using to measure your success. Your beating yourself and your wife for something that you can never be, someone else.

 

S

[Chicup 41]

You don't need to change you or your wife. You need to change the yard stick that you are using to measure your success. Your beating yourself and your wife for something that you can never be, someone else.

 

I'm not sure if I can agree with this, I'm never in favor of moving the goal posts. Self improvement is possible and its our nature to compare ourselves to our peers.

 

For example my wife is still a bit on the shy side, which can be problematic in swinging, but she is less shy then when we started and her misplaced insecurities about her looks has improved quite a bit.

 

I think sometimes we all need a push to improve in any facet of life, to get us out of our comfort zone and become better at whatever it is we are having difficulty with.

 

Obviously you can push to hard, but there is nothing wrong with identifying your weaknesses as a couple and working to improve them. It can be frustrating, and maybe you go about it wrong, but there is nothing wrong with trying.

[ncmd_couple 597]

Chicup,

 

I understand what you are saying, and anyone moving into swinging are going to be pushing their comfort zones. But also you can create uncessary unhappiness by comparing yourself to others. And in reality, if you knew the truth about the people you are comparing yourself to, you may very well go, "thank God we aren't them!"

 

Every couple has their limitations. The key, in my mind, is to acknowledge those limitations, try to enhance what ya' got, and be happy with the success that you have had and learn from them. But don't beat yourself up over those limitations. Besides, it is our bat, ball, glove, and field. We get to place the goal posts. If we want to move them later, that is our choice. For us.

 

S

[arvcpl 16]

Note to all swingersboard members : you haven't had a real ass-kicking untill iapr and goodtimes both give you the stompdown within six minutes of each other:lol:

 

While it was a bit of a painfull read it is probably with great merit and I shall take everything that all of you have offered to heart. While it is never easy to hear, "you are sucking at this" there are times when it is what you need to hear. I had my little self induced pitty party and now realize that I just need to chill and maybe do some more homework.

 

I do want to also thank NCMD_couple for that litle reality check as well. You are correct, I had my yardstick where it did not belong. It is not reasonable to measure ourselves against the perceived success of others.

 

I will read through all of these posts again tomorrow and we will have some more talks and come up with a game plan where it isn't about what I am doing wrong or what she is doing wrong but rather how we can both do more right together as a couple.

[sexcupid 809]

All I can say is good luck.

 

After reading the initial post, my first thought was 'perhaps she's just more comfortable dealing with guys'...some women are (I know I am for the most part). Yet apparently she is like that with both the men and women (as far as you saying she doesn't show the warm part of her personality). Some people are just naturally introverted...perhaps your wife is one of those and is more standoffish in general, but you do run the risk of others seeing you/her as the pushy/stuck up couple (you being the pushy her being stuck up).

 

I mean face it...swinging is very much a personality game in addition to the physical attraction. If you can't just sit at a table with us having a drink and some small talk (even in a group of people), it could be a problem...because we do like the social aspects as well as the naked ones that the LS offers.

 

As far as the bi issue goes...your wife seems overtly paranoid (that's JMHO) that either assumes that bi/homosexuals can't control themselves. I mean, seriously, just because a woman is bi does not mean that she is going to force it on someone who isn't interested. This sounds stupid (or perhaps just a 'duh' statement), but it's just like being straight...you aren't going to be attracted to every male or female you meet...why assume that someone who is bi is?. This is where honing those small talk skills would do worlds of good so your wife can just say that she's not bi, limits can be discussed, etc. I'm sure the times you have played that limits have been discussed...but as you have already pointed out, you are afraid of coming across as a Dom or pushy and if you are always the one speaking up for her about limits/comfort levels/etc...then we would be wondering why on earth she couldn't just tell us herself and might deduce that she really wasn't that into swapping.

 

Good luck,

[cocpl2007 170]

Welcome to the world! You will NOT find yourself or you as a couple, any MORE or any LESS popular and appealing than you are in the vanilla world. You find your wife very sexy and very attractive. You seem to dwell on her "attractiveness" and her overwhelming beauty. In the two decade I've been around the lifestyle, I can't agree with your statement that the best looking "most attractive" folks have the most fun within ithe lifestyle. Quite the contrary. Fun is NOT limited to your perception of what is attractive or not attractive. I have seen many, many folks who would not meet anyone's standard of physically (in the classic media sense) attractive. Believe it or not those whom you label as less than your beautiful wife, actually have quite a nice time within the lifestyle. You will find people, and groups of people within the lifestyle not that much different than, as a group, you'd find out in the vanilla world. If your wife "lifts no water" with others, guess what, she'll only be attractive to... well, you already have been told this over and over again. In your opinion you find yourselves "We are both very pleasant and attractive people" then what does that make the folks who do not take the initiative to make this same discovery... therein lies the problem. Swingers are people too. They have their own views of what they find pleasant and attractive in other people. I am NOT saying you and your wife are not pleasant and attractive... I'm only saying that is YOUR personal view. Others obviously are incapable of determining that very fact for themselves. Therein lies your dilemma.

 

Others are not seeing you as a couple, as you already know you are! And as it is often said within the couples here and couples who share... "Momma ain't happy, nobody ain't happy" If my wife is not attracted to your wife, for play or otherwise, it ends there!

[PB&J 1,086]

Your focus appears to be on picking couples up at clubs. Have you done much in the way of hooking up with couples through sites? Perhaps the whole "we're at the club and we want to get laid tonight" approach just isn't right for you two. Case in point: we met a couple through sls a couple of weeks ago for dinner, where we got a chance to talk with no distractions, and got to connect with both of them personality-wise first. THEN we made a date to go to our favorite off-premise club, where, with the hooking-up decision already made, we got to spend the evening getting to know each other much better before finally retiring to a hotel.

 

On the other hand, when we've gone to the club without another couple already lined up, so to speak, we haven't been terribly lucky either , because both of us can be a bit shy about going out and getting what we want. (house parties a different and delightful story!)

 

Just thinking that this approach might work better for you two.

[easleyfuncpl 58]

I think another problem you may have, which I don't believe anyone else has addressed, is that you place too much importance on looks. However, it seems that this is an unfortunate lesson you are learning now. No matter how hot you are, if you're just hanging back or not interacting socially with others you won't have as much fun as those that do.

 

Consider this. My husband tells me I am usually one of, if not the most attractive female at parties. While in my normal lifestyle I am quite reserved and shy, when I swing I am extremely socially adept (this came with practice, practice, practice as someone said earlier...also being comfortable being sexual). Often the male half of a couple will come up to me alone and after interacting socially, we will begin to play. Most often then not after a bit, the wife comes to see what the husband is doing and begins to act in a possessive manner. The husband usually just ignores the wife which makes me feel extremely awkward so i'll make an excuse to break away. I have learned that unless the wife is preoccupied with someone (or something in some cases) it's hands off. If you came up to me somewhere, and even if I found you charming and sexy, if your wife was just sitting off somewhere I'd feel really uncomfortable engaging either one of you. IMO, from the other side of the fence, people may think it could start some drama...which is never a good ingredient at a swingers party.

 

Since we don't have insight to your wife's take on this, I won't presume to assume that she is insecure, uninterested, or anything else. I have never, ever been able to relate to women very well and have had male friends all my life. I am very select with the females I do choose to hang out with, and I am BI. For me, I had to just learn how to engage in small talk and just be generally comfortable being sensual. Swinging has actually helped me out in my everyday vanilla life as I am now much more social than I ever have been. I think the more experiences you guys have, this will just come naturally to her. Don't be frustrated and just have patience.