The Big Day...

[pants_1 27]

Ok, so I've been on here all of like 24 hours, but y'all seem really nice and supportive. So I thought I'd bend your ear(s).

 

My wife and I just started an open relationship. I've thought this whole thing through a lot (see my other posts), and I'm sure we are making the right decision for us. But I also know that this is a big paradigm shift in our relationship, and our lives in general. I've been around long enough to know that it takes time to accomodate change. I already went through one period of "shock/ mourning/ 12 steps/ whatever" when we first decided to go ahead. After patiently letting it sit for about ten days, until the initial weird "everything has changed" feeling went away, I took charge of the situation and joined some sites like this one. Making the whole thing "mine" really helped.

 

My wife was in no hurry to find someone, and she is VERY picky (part of the reason we swing separately), so I had figured I would probably be the first one to "get some a**," as she so delicately put it. That was my plan for easing into the next stage of the process. I believe that the real hangup for most guys is the feeling that you own your wife's body... I figured if I made the first move, establishing that she doesn't own my body, some of that might be abated. And yes, we did consider a couples meeting to ease into it (not that I think that would necessarily help).

 

However, plans got changed because of scheduling, and I wanted her to take a very good opportunity while she could. So, rather abruptly, she's leaving tomorrow for her first "date." Apart from some minor irritation that she finalized her schedule before confirming that I was free this weekend to babysit, that was cool with me.

 

So, I'm not sure what to expect this weekend. I'm stuck at home: can't play at the house, so even if I had a local prospect, that would be out. I'm going to make sure I exercise and eat properly, meditate (my little secret weapon), and get as much rest as I can. During the day, it's daddy time, so I am covered, but at night, it'll be just me, myself, and I.

 

I am pretty much expecting more of the whole "shock/ mourning/ 12 steps/ everything has changed" thing again. I am a bit of a stewer, and I DON'T want to get myself worked up being obsessive about what is "going on."

Maybe I'm just being silly... I'm a big boy, and I have thought this through ALOT. I am sure I should just trust myself.

 

On the other hand, I caught myself being a little testy after the whole making-plans-without-checking-the-actual-dates-with-me thing. I was probably also feeling a teensy bit jealous because she gets to go off and have fun and I don't. Or that she stayed up late chatting with the guy last night rather than going to bed with me when I expressed an interest in having sex. And apparently she hadn't really caught the fact that I was going to be gone all day and part of the night tonight, so I wouldn't really see her at all after that.

 

I didn't make a big deal out of it, because I had already decided that I was going to let it all go for now. She was a little inconsiderate, but she's acting like a teenager, and teenagers do that. She's been a little defensive about it so far, so I suspect she's got some emotional stuff going on too. I'll bring up maturity and consideration with her later, but I don't want to rain on her parade right now, and I don't want it to turn into a huge guilt-trip.

 

Ok, folks, please don't read too much into that. I'm trying to be honest here... These are little things: if I thought jealousy would be a real problem, I'd have called all this off. What worries me is that I just don't want this to turn into a bad experience for me. I don't want to carry those tiny little issues through the weekend, and blow them all out of proportion by obsessing over them. And I really want her to enjoy every part of her weekend. If she comes home and finds me unhappy, or senses hesitation or weirdness, then next time she plays she will spend more time worrying about how I am than having a good time. Or worse, feel guilty about the whole thing.

 

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? Apart from masturbation, of course.

[NCfuncouple98 367]

Since you've got some down-time this weekend, may I recommend some good reading? Read this, take 2 aspirin, and make damn sure this doesn't happen to your marriage.

 

http://www.swingersboard.com/forums/swinging-separately-open-marriage/40670-emotional-logistical-problems-open-marriage.html

[Chicup 41]

 

My wife was in no hurry to find someone, and she is VERY picky (part of the reason we swing separately), so I had figured I would probably be the first one to "get some a**," as she so delicately put it.

 

Yes, well now you know, thats not how this works.

 

Good luck, you are going to need it, apparently your wife isn't THAT picky and you just turned this into a separate lives thing, not a together thing.

 

Most people can't handle it, and I have a hunch you guys are going to fall into that category pretty quick. Especially when she wants a second date, and a third and you are still getting no where.

[tcphoenix 15]

Read that soap opera that NCfuncouple98 posted, the sooner the better. Tell me that thread doesn't give you a sense of deja vue? Carefully consider where you go from here, that thread almost single handedly convinced my wife and I to choose pursuing swinging vice an open relationship.

[socolais 696]

Think of the event as a gift to your wife - be supportive, encourage her to have a wonderful time. Even though it was her idea, she's likely concerned about all the uncertainty. Don't give her any more to worry about.

 

Playing separately is certainly not the easiest way, and it works just fine for many folks. Be open to other opportunities and modes of play as they come along.

 

Good luck to both of you

[Chicup 41]

Think of the event as a gift to your wife - be supportive, encourage her to have a wonderful time. Even though it was her idea, she's likely concerned about all the uncertainty. Don't give her any more to worry about.

 

Playing separately is certainly not the easiest way, and it works just fine for many folks. Be open to other opportunities and modes of play as they come along.

 

Good luck to both of you

 

I'm going to have to disagree, my first thought on reading this thread like others was 'loki version 2'.

 

Setting up a separate play date for a FIRST time extramarital sex experience is risky to say the least. My wife and I can play separately now, but that was only after a lot of playing together and really being comfortable with the people involved. I know, without a doubt, that if my wife and I tried something like this to start it would have been an unmitigated disaster for us.

 

A vacation is a nice gift to the wife.

A new car is a nice gift.

A single male in an open relationship is a nice gift that will test the real strength of your marriage, maximally.

 

pants_1 - Unless you are the kind of guy who really gets off on his wife having sex with other men (aka hot wife) I'd reconsider this. I'll also add that if you tell your wife you are not comfortable she starts to get angry or protest then you REALLY need to reconsider this. Always remember YOUR relationship, your happiness TOGETHER comes first. As soon as you start 'taking one for the team' in terms of not being happy but not wanting to spoil her fun you are really setting yourself up for a bad time. Your wife will have 100* the opportunity to play that you do, its the nature of casual sex.

[dnmnms 55]

However, plans got changed because of scheduling, and I wanted her to take a very good opportunity while she could. So, rather abruptly, she's leaving tomorrow for her first "date." Apart from some minor irritation that she finalized her schedule before confirming that I was free this weekend to babysit, that was cool with me.

 

Initially we first began our talks with considering an open marriage. After alot of talk, we decided we both are more into sharing the experience with each other rather than apart. But each person/couple is different.

Also, I know I have set the pace on our play as I tend to take things at a slower pace than hubby does. But that is okay. Time and getting comfortable with myself has helped me.

 

 

But, I do have one teeny negative I gotta get off my chest. Sorry, I am a female and am very opinionated.

Not sure why you feel that being with home while she goes out is considered "babysitting". Unless they are not your children, you staying home with them is being a dad not a babysitter. Seems that usually its men (not saying all men) who term it babysitting.

 

OK, whew I feel better now. I will get down off my soapbox.

 

But, I also agree that I would be upset if my hubby made plans without discussing it with me. Before either of us will commit we sit down and talk about it. If either of us decide its a no-go then thats the way it is. No questions asked and we both know that there will be no anger regarding any decision.

 

Melody

[pants_1 27]

Thanks for all the input everybody. And I really appreciate the concern. Could someone direct me to the "soap opera that NCfuncouple98 posted?"

 

Also, I don't really consider watching my son "babysitting." I misspoke. We're going to go swimming a couple times, and I'm planning a small pizza party for us. We haven't had much time together recently, so this is father-son time.

 

Anyway, I do think there may be a couple of misunderstandings here, from my perspective. I think I may have given the impression that there is more drama here than I feel there is. Note that I am NOT going to tell you that you're wrong... I may not understand my own situation. I do know that sometimes theory and practice turn out very differently. This is just how I see it (now):

 

• I do know that women get more opportunities than men. My wife has already slept with more people than me, and I don't think that's ever going to change. I would really hope I'm not going to be "keeping score."
   
  
• For the record (not that it matters), she IS picky. I've never seen a single male profile on any of these sites that comes close to fitting the bill (and yes, I do look). She's checked out several sites, and gave up on them. This was a pretty big fluke.
   
  
• She did consult me before making her plans, we just didn't discuss the particular days she had in mind. And she forgot to ask about my schedule, so we had some awkward moments, like today when I had to drive to the store because I had left my wallet in her car, and I didn't realize she wasn't coming back. Sounds flakey, huh? there's a reason:
   
  
• My wife is a part-time graduate student, part-time stay-at-home-mom, and part-time in training for athletic competition. That she is distracted may have something to do with the fact that she has just started a new training regimen [sic?], where she works out until 7 or 8 on MWF, and gets up at 5 in the morning TR to go train. I can't sub out for her on those days, so she has to come back, take our son to school, pick him up, then keep up with a rowdy almost-four-year-old until he goes to bed (I take him at 5:00 MWF). She was a little sensitive and distracted just now when I got home... because she has had about five hours of sleep in the past 48 hours or so! Does that justify hurting my feelings? No. Should she be more sensitive and considerate? Yes. Should I cut her a little slack? Maybe...
   
  
• The fact that my wife is going off to visit some guy for the weekend is not my problem. I'm pretty comfortable with the idea. I'm not really taking one for the team: she goes off for a weekend, which means I'll get to take off some other time, if and when I find playmates. Cool. Maybe I never find somebody... whatever. I'll go visit friends.
   
  

 

So then, WTF is my problem, anyway?

 

• The problem is that I have to get through this first awkward, uncomfortable time alone. I don't think it has much to do with how we swing... it would have been awkward anyway (say, as a couple). Honestly, I rather prefer not watching right now... the physical distance translates to emotional distance for me. Like I said, she's had sex with other people before, but that is separated from me in space and time too. When we first started seeing each other, I didn't want to hear about them. Now I don't care. It just takes some time.
   
  
• My other problem may be some kind of OCD or something... I stew. Usually while cleaning the fish tank. It's really dumb, and I always realize later that I've been doing it. But I really don't want to make myself miserable this weekend.
   
  
• One of our problems as a couple is that we have needs that the other person can't meet. They aren't all sexual, either. Well... hers aren't. We can enjoy ourselves together in many many ways, but there are some ways we can't. And, unfortunately, those are ways she doesn't feel she can do without. And yes, I said "she..." she is the rate-limiting factor here. And yes, that does seem selfish of her, and yes, she does realize that she looks like a monster for this, and yes, I look like a patsy for going along with it. Those are crosses we'll have to bear.
   
  
• I am not worried that we won't get through this weekend. We've always been good communicators... if something really bad happens, we'll deal with it. If everything falls apart, we'll deal with that, too. We've already discussed divorce, and we have a protocol for how it would work. Sick, huh?
   
  
• We have had a lot of issues, largely surrounding this particular subject. She is the one who can't do without, so she is the one who will bear most of the blame if this doesn't work. She accepts that. I love my wife, and I really want to stay together, but I'm not going to let the fear of losing my marriage rule my life. I want to take this risk, and I'm willing to bet the farm. Maybe that's unromantic, but it's a big move for me personally, because I've always had a fear of abandonment.
   
  

 

Anyway, sincere thanks to everybody for their thoughts. I know some of you will probably just shake your heads and think "poor fool." And I honestly do appreciate the sentiment, because I've watched lots of people go down what I've really believed is the wrong path. I'll let you know how it goes!

 

Jon

 

P.S. Ok, now I am beginning to understand a lot more what people mean when they say "no drama!" LOL!

[2inSanDiego4u 181]

Like the other poster said, this is a must read:

 

http://www.swingersboard.com/forums/swinging-separately-open-marriage/40670-emotional-logistical-problems-open-marriage.html

 

Read it ALL.

 

Then answer four questions honestly: How was your relationship with your wife prior to considering an open marriage? Why do you want an open marriage, each of you? Do you really think your relationship can survive it? And last but not least -- is it really worth risking your relationship over it?

[pants_1 27]

Ok, time for Jon to eat some crow.

 

I didn't get through the whole Loki thing. I didn't have to. I'm not sure I want to know how it ends, honestly. I got waaaay too creeped out.

 

Can I just say right now that you guys are really terrific? Honestly. I'm sorry for being a pompous ass. And I'm sorry for the drama! When I got to the term "drama swingers," I think I actually blushed!

 

Some of what you all said still doesn't quite fit with my situation, but you got me to thinking about it. And so did that thread. And so did a buddy of mine who just happens to be up late at night, and have TONS of experience!

 

Honestly, right now, security is my paramount concern. I am guilty of assuming my wife knows what she is talking about, and what she wants. Typical me mistake! Like any of us do? I'm acquiescing to an adrenaline junky going into a super-risky situation far away from me. Very thrilling... I'd be excited too. DUMB. Why is it that no matter how lucid your judgement is, you can never turn it on yourself?

 

The behaviour pattern in the Loki post really struck me. Not that I'm saying she's doing that, but it is disturbing. Even if she's tired, if I behaved the way she is, she'd say I was obsessing. DUMB.

 

Tonight, when we talked about how we would explain the situation to our son, she said she had told him she was going away for work, and she even went into "details." I even asked her how she felt about lying to her son, and she blew it off. Not that we planned to tell him in detail, but I would have skirted the truth a bit more closely. Of course, she doesn't want her mother to know we swing.

 

She could very well be turning to this as a hail mary; if she's just plain bored, and can't stand being tied down, naturally she'd be thinking that something like this would work. And what then? If it doesn't, she would just need more, no?

 

I'm actually beginning to wonder what exactly it is that she can't get from our relationship. It isn't sex, and it isn't friendship. I think it is just adrenaline. I don't think she'll be satisfied. She's not happy with a grueling workout five days a week. What will be enough? When does lying become exciting? Or cheating? Obviously, risking her life is on the table already.

 

I'm completely guilty of being suckered in by the fantasy of this all. That's very embarrassing. I should have known when it started feeling like being single. Not because of the rejection, like I initially thought, but because even acceptance doesn't bring anyone really closer to you. I like to engage people. Am I going to engage someone if we're just meeting for sex? I dunno, but I doubt it. And would I really want to?

 

Do COUPLES swing together so they can get the intimacy (from their partner) that they would be missing with just sex (with someone else)? And you are all right, there there really is a big difference between chatting online and playing for real. I'm going to have to seriously reconsider my feelings on the latter.

 

So, tomorrow morning, after the boy is in school, I'm gonna sit her down, and lay out my concerns. I'm going to tell her that I'm going to put my "activities" (such as they are) on hiatus, whether she does or not, until I can get a better handle on this. I'm not sure this is for me.

 

If she still wants to fly out to meet this guy, she can, but over my strongest objections. With any luck, it'll all be on the up and up, or she'll figure out that it's not good really fast. I will expect her to call me every six hours, and if she doesn't, I'll be sending the boy to his grandmother's and flying standby to Tucson.

 

I'll ask her to talk to a professional about adrenaline vs. judgement. I'll point out that if she can't check her behavior, it could be a risk to our son. She hates the thought of therapy. She may not understand, she may sulk, or blame me for ruining her fun. I'll take THAT one "for the team."

 

May whatever forces might be at work out there have mercy on me, because I am about to take both barrels right in the mouth!

[fun4Ds 1,098]

I think you are missing something Jon.

 

In swinging, there is one rule. NO means NO!

 

I don't care if we are fucking our brains out and either one of us say no! It's over at that moment, no questions asked. Then we would talk.... You both have a lot to learn...

 

Everyone here is experienced in swinging and will by now, after reading this, conclude that one of you should say NO. You're not ready for this! You can type till your fingers fall off trying to convince me that your reasons for not saying NO are justified.

 

I don't believe you two are on the same page.....

[slevin 1,374]

I definitely agree with the other posters and though there was a lot of frustration for a lot of people replying to the Loki thread, it has been a great source of reference for you and others. Glad it continues to be a warning

 

For your situation Chicup has the right idea; bring up that you're having second thoughts and would like you and her to put off seeing anyone outside your marriage until you can get more comfortable. If she gets angry, or refuses to break her plans, or completely dismisses your thoughts and goes anyway...then you've got a problem. Don't tell her that you're putting off you meeting anyone, but she can do whatever she wants. That is passive aggressive hoping she will agree and cancel her weekend. Tell her you're not comfortable and would like to put things on hold for right now. See what she says/does.

 

Flying out to see some guy for the weekend? Bad news for a first meeting; who is paying for the flight? How long have they been chatting online? How did she meet him online?

 

You mention adrenaline and why isn't she getting enough excitement out of working out 5 days a week? It sounds like perhaps her boredom is more with the relationship than with a lack of adrenaline. Not that you are boring, but you laid out a very busy and stressful week that she has. Perhaps this is her seeking refuge from reality (also a very bad thing)?

 

Do you and she do much together outside of the house? Do you try new things together? Do you take her to do things she loves to do? Does she surprise you with things you like to do? Do you spend time with your friends? Does she spend time with hers (when not working out)?

 

I'm a firm supporter of putting things on hold until you sort things out. Honestly, I get the feeling that she had this guy in her mind already and wanted to meet/fuck him. She may be picky, but my suspicion is that he was already in the picture when this all came up.

[pants_1 27]

Quote

but my suspicion is that he was already in the picture when this all came up.

Not this particular guy... a whole class of people. She knew they were out there.

 

I'm going to try and let everyone off the hook here as succinctly as possible, with as little drama as I can manage. We've talked this through, and here's where it stands. I'll do the bullet thing again, if you don't mind.

 

• The marriage is kind of dead at the core. I'm not sure it was ever alive in the sense that you guys would take it. We are great friends, and compatible in so many ways, and happy living together. But love for her is apparently quite different from the way it is for me. I didn't really understand that until this happened.
   
• Basically, I said "no," and she said "too late." She feels she's given up a lot for our relationship, and she shouldn't have to give this up. For the record, the part that hurts is not that she's going to have sex with someone else, but that something I thought was there just isn't.
   
• What she wants is pretty much a polyamory situation... she feels she needs a type of person that I am not. It's actually not love for her. Just an itch she can't go without scratching. The rest of the time, she is fine with me. Yes... "fine." As in Bill-n-Hillary fine. Yes, I do wonder if that occasional itch may become a more constant thing.
   
• No, that's not how I thought of our marriage.
   
• Yes, I need to think long and hard about whether I can live with any of this.
   
• In a way, I'm grateful things happened this way. We've been together a long time, and apparently this situation has existed for much of that time. Better to know how it is.

 

So, I'm afraid slevin was pretty much on the mark. This isn't about being "ready" for a different sexual relationship, it is about having a very different relationship from the start. And a terrible misunderstanding along the way.

 

Anyway, I feel like I would bring a whole LOT of baggage if I participated in any swinging-type stuff right now. Maybe when things have settled down a little, and I can get my head screwed on straight. But I kind of need to know where I'm going, first. Not like the search is going very fast anyway.

 

Thanks again everybody, for all your help!

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

There isn't thing one about this that doesn't send up a MAJOR, MAAAAJOR red flag.

 

If she goes to Tuscon this weekend, you're in for a world of trouble.

 

I said it in the Loki thread (linked earlier in this thread), and I'll say it now. You've got a little boy in the mix, and the only consideration being given to him is whether or not he is being lied to. HIS life is in the balance here. If your marriage goes bonkers over this and you end up in a nasty divorce, he will be PERMANENTLY affected by this. You chose to bring him into this world. Be an adult. Take the responsibility to take HIS needs, HIS future, HIS life into account, not just yours and your wife's. She also needs to have the same level of consideration for her son. This is an absolute must.

 

Good grief, you're risking your marriage over this to reach some sort of nirvana in your marriage? You don't swing to fix a broken marriage; that's written in stone. If you have problems in your marriage (and you DO, ADMIT IT) swinging is equivalent to turning a stick of dynamite into a nuclear bomb and lighting the fuse. Attempting to have an open marriage (as opposed to swinging) in this scenario is lighting off the entire nuclear arsenal of the United States. THIS WILL END IN DISASTER. COUNT ON IT.

 

I hope like hell this isn't Loki all over again. Take the advice being given to you. STOP this adventure RIGHT now, in it's tracks and don't even THINK about having an open marriage or swinging until many months or more than a year at least of having a marriage you think is absolutely rock solid.

 

If you do anything else but put a halt to this NOW, you're being ridiculously and dangerously stupid. Sorry to be so blunt, but there it is. Sometimes it takes a chainsaw to cut through the fog.

 

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Pants - initially I was like everyone else and saw the same things in your story that we saw with Loki. After reading your last reply, I don't see that. Instead, you remind me of another story we've had here in the last year. He was pretty much in the same shoes you are (almost to the tee)... dead marriage... living like roommates... had decided to have an "open marriage"... she found it easier to get some than he did...

 

In the end, he finally realized there was more to life than just being someone's roommate and friend. You can be someone's friend without being married to them.

 

http://www.swingersboard.com/forums/swinging-separately-open-marriage/39206-open-marriage-vs-swinging.html

and I'm going to see if I can convince him to come back by here and perhaps share his thoughts (from after the fact) with you/us.

[Chicup 41]

This was one of those times I hate being right, but pants you pretty much spelled out in your last post what I was thinking. I didn't want to really tell a stranger that I think his marriage sounds dead.

 

Be grateful you found it out quickly.

[slevin 1,374]

Sorry to hear that the situation is as bad as it is. I can't even imagine how tough that must be to suddenly discover. I was going to say that you should take the weekend to let it all sink in and then pop back on here to talk about what YOU want (and not necessarily just from a swinging perspective), but I expect with her going off for the weekend you may not be able to just relax and think about what you want.

 

Whatever happens, I'd encourage you to stick around here a bit. Check out the threads that Julie referred you to and come back to talk about your end of the situation that you find yourself in. I know that there was a lot of frustration in the Loki thread you were referred to, but I don't think anyone here would have any problem with continuing to offer you support and advice as you sort out your relationship and what you want. Not a guarantee that anyone can really help, but you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and an honest desire to seek information/advice.

 

Hope to see you continue to post and whatever happens, good luck with dealing with your situation.

[pants_1 27]

Thanks everybody, for the good advice and support. I'm trying to be independent here, but to my wife, this has already become my swinger friends online vs. her. Where did my spine go?

 

Julie, you're right... I found this quote on that thread: "In my case, the open marriage is more of a symptom of the problem, than the cause." Yup. Even if she stayed, the cause would still be there.

 

When she is convinced she is right, there's very little that will stop her. This is the first time we've really not seen eye-to-eye on what's right, the first time I feel she has chosen her needs over the family's needs, the first time she has really used all the sacrifices she's made as a weapon. She compromised her ideals, and

that

is why I fear for the worst.

 

bbarnsworth: I'm reminded of a song:

"I've done the damage, the damage is done

I pray to God that I'm the damaged one

and all these grownup complication that you don't understand

I hope you can, someday... I hope you can."

 

slevin: I should have known better. When you keep making decisions based on trying to save your relationship, when your biggest fear becomes that loss, it is because it is slipping through your fingers.

 

My first girlfriend was a highschool sweetheart. We kept it going long distance (three hours) for most of our first year of college, but things were obviously frayed. I started really worrying about it. Finally, she cheated on me. I think she did it because she couldn't bring herself to end the relationship, and she needed me to do it for her.

 

Deja vu? My wife even admitted she half expects to find her belongings on the doorstep when she gets back. She's always said we can get a divorce any time I want one. Maybe she can't pull the trigger?

 

Finally, I appreciate everyone's safety concerns, but she's gone. Barely looked back (shock). Short of incapacitating myself (not gonna do it) or physically restraining her (difficult, and pointless), it wasn't going to happen. I elected to accompany her to the airport as planned, so our son could have a proper goodbye.

 

I really appreciate the support, and I will stick around.

[slevin 1,374]

slevin: I should have known better. When you keep making decisions based on trying to save your relationship, when your biggest fear becomes that loss, it is because it is slipping through your fingers.

 

Glad you're going to stick around. I agree that when you start worrying about the relationship ending that you end up doing things that unfortunately end up helping to further hurt the relationship. I've found (and possibly will hear some crap for this here) that when you're comfortable with the possibility that your relationship could end that you're able to be more real and honest in the relationship. I'll explain that a bit though; I'm not suggesting that wanting the relationship to end is a good thing, or even being ok with the idea that it could end. Rather those times when you are confident in your relationship, you love your partner and feel that the relationship is solid. Combine that with the knowledge that if the worst case happened you as a person will be fine and that you'll have a full and exciting life anyway and you are in a very powerful situation. It allows you to communicate honestly, it leaves you doing the things that make you happy and not doing things that you think will make her happy.

 

People are attracted to others who are happy with themselves, people who are fun to be with and who challenge them to be better themselves.

 

Hope I explained that well, it's something that can be easily mis-communicated on my part and come across as a negative thing; it's definitely a purely positive thing. My relationship with Katrina improved immensely when I had that epiphany. Out communication improved by leaps and bounds and it led to us exploring swinging as well as many other things we'd put off out of some sense of fear in the relationship (even though we were both happy and in love with each other).

 

So, for your situation now is a time to be selfish. She has made a decision to look out for her happiness and it's time for you to decide what you want and what will make you happy. Forget trying to decipher what she wants from all this; sort out what works for you and pursue that directly.

 

Look forward to more posts from you!

[ncmd_couple 597]

Jon,

 

I'm going to respond to you further in the Poly forum. As that is the direction that you are headed at the moment. I'm assuming from your post above that your wife is headed to AZ. Well, that is a major problem. Not one that you can't deal with, but a biggie.

[ncmd_couple 597]

slevin said:

Glad you're going to stick around. I agree that when you start worrying about the relationship ending that you end up doing things that unfortunately end up helping to further hurt the relationship. I've found (and possibly will hear some crap for this here) that when you're comfortable with the possibility that your relationship could end that you're able to be more real and honest in the relationship. I'll explain that a bit though; I'm not suggesting that wanting the relationship to end is a good thing, or even being ok with the idea that it could end. Rather those times when you are confident in your relationship, you love your partner and feel that the relationship is solid. Combine that with the knowledge that if the worst case happened you as a person will be fine and that you'll have a full and exciting life anyway and you are in a very powerful situation. It allows you to communicate honestly, it leaves you doing the things that make you happy and not doing things that you think will make her happy.

BINGO!!!

 

Jon, if you don't get anything from here, this is the best advice you can get. As my mother always has told me, to your own self be true! And be honest with your wife in the process!

 

More in the Poly forum.

[NCfuncouple98 367]

I too am glad you will stick around, and hope you understand I did not reference the Loki postings to compare your current situation to that one. Merely just to open your eyes to things that can happen to a relationship that is not strong, solid, and ready for swinging.

 

I truly am sorry to hear the way things have turned out this weekend. I hope it does give you time to reflect and decide where the future should lead you.

[Chicup 41]

Jon,

 

I'm going to respond to you further in the Poly forum. As that is the direction that you are headed at the moment.

 

You are obviously an optimist.

 

This has nothing to do with swinging or poly, its practically cheating, hell it IS cheating.

 

She said "I'm doing this, sucks you don't like it, I need it, maybe I'll see you when I get back" (not in so many words).

 

Thats cheating by even a swinger definition.

 

Talking about Poly is just a weak clinging onto hope and failing to face the facts. Its not often a man knows his wife is having an affair ahead of time, but I can't see how this is any different.

[ncmd_couple 597]

Chicup,

 

You might be right. But Jon is running down paths in the woods in the dark right now. Jon has to figure this out on his own, we can't make those decisions for him. But we can try to shine some light down those paths so that HE can decide which ones he wants to go down. I sure as hell wish I had this board as a resource years ago. Personally, having been there, I don't think saying "Your screwed Bud!" is really the right answer from us.

[ncmd_couple 597]

Oh, and I’m an optimistic pessimist, I hope for the best and expect the worst, I’m rarely disappointed.

[Chicup 41]

ncmd_couple said:

Chicup,

 

You might be right. But Jon is running down paths in the woods in the dark right now. Jon has to figure this out on his own, we can't make those decisions for him. But we can try to shine some light down those paths so that HE can decide which ones he wants to go down. I sure as hell wish I had this board as a resource years ago. Personally, having been there, I don't think saying "Your screwed Bud!" is really the right answer from us.

 

I think it is the honest answer. He won't find an answer in poly until he gets his own marriage together.

 

Personally I would be finding a lawyer if something like this happened to me. Either way I wouldn't recommend anything extra-sexual as a path or solution at this point.

 

This falls under 'swinging won't fix a broken marriage'. Neither will an open marriage, nor will poly.

 

Edit: I also think there is a bit of a natural bias at work. Change 'she' to 'he' and I think more advice here would be just like mine.

 

He is ignoring the family and insists on flying out to have sex with a woman he met on the internet despite the pain its causing me. Yea, I think we all know where THAT thread would go in a hurry, and it wouldn't be the poly forum.

[ncmd_couple 597]

Chicup said:

I think its the honest answer. He won't find an answer in poly until he gets his own marriage together.

 

Personally I would be finding a lawyer if something like this happened to me. Either way I wouldn't recommend anything extra-sexual as a path or solution at this point.

 

This falls under 'swinging won't fix a broken marriage'. Neither will an open marriage, nor will poly.

 

Chicup,

 

Many years ago I came home from work and found my now ex-wife going up the stairs to the bedroom with a friend of mine naked. I asked her what was going on, and she told me. I had three choices, storm out of the house and find a lawyer, pick up one of my guns and shoot his ass, and maybe hers, or join in. I joined in and we had a great threesome. Don't impose your reactions on Jon, you don't know him, and neither do I. He has to find his own path. In this particular case I find your "fuck the world" attitude a negative. No, he isn't dealing with swinging or poly. He is dealing with life!

[NCfuncouple98 367]

I think its the honest answer. He won't find an answer in poly until he gets his own marriage together.

 

Personally I would be finding a lawyer if something like this happened to me. Either way I wouldn't recommend anything extra-sexual as a path or solution at this point.

 

This falls under 'swinging won't fix a broken marriage'. Neither will an open marriage, nor will poly.

 

Edit: I also think there is a bit of a natural bias at work. Change 'she' to 'he' and I think more advice here would be just like mine.

 

He is ignoring the family and insists on flying out to have sex with a woman he met on the internet despite the pain its causing me. Yea, I think we all know where THAT thread would go in a hurry, and it wouldn't be the poly forum.

 

I have to go with Chicup on this one. And yes, if it were He instead of She, I can see the divorce lawyers on the phone.

 

Poly is, in my opinion and research, the practice of having more than one loving, intimate relationship. How does this qualify with her jumping on an airplane to meet someone for the first time?

 

I think it's time to sit down and discuss the marriage. Friendship? Roommates? Lovers? Soul-mates? Life-long partners? What is it, and where is it going? Where do you want it to be in a year, 5 years, 10 years?

 

Having an open marriage or swinging will not answer any of those questions. Face-to-face open, honest discussions might bring you to that conclusion.

 

I am by no means encouraging you to go one way or the other - merely advising the two of you sit down together and talk. Talk. Openly, honestly, no holding back. There is a child involved, yes, but what kind of relationship do you want your child to grow up around?

 

Maybe after this first trip, you two will have the opportunity to lay it all on the table.

 

I can only imagine what this weekend will be like. Hang in there, and figure out what you want. For you, for your wife, for your son, for your family. Then be honest about it with her when she gets home.

[slevin 1,374]

I think it's time to sit down and discuss the marriage. Friendship? Roommates? Lovers? Soul-mates? Life-long partners? What is it, and where is it going? Where do you want it to be in a year, 5 years, 10 years?

 

I agree with this to a point. This conversation should only happen once HE has decided what he wants to happen. Once he knows what he wants, then it's time to have a conversation with her and ask her what she wants. If I'm honest though, I expect she either doesn't know or won't be honest about it when talking openly about the relationship. Having the conversation is worthwhile, but I wouldn't expect much out of it. Better to decide what you want from the situation and work to make it happen. What work that takes depends on the desired outcome.

 

Also, as I advised Loki, I'd say that contacting a lawyer quietly to discuss your options (even if you don't decide you want a divorce) is a great course of action. You want to be prepared in case she makes the decision for you. Most importantly, don't let her force you out of your house. If it comes to a divorce if you're out of the house it plays in her favour for keeping the house and the kids.

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

ncmd_couple and Chicup take different approaches to this. Both have wisdom.

 

There's no "right" answers here. As we saw in the Loki thread, there's soooo much more than we're being told. Intentionally or no, the husband in this mix has a bias. So does the wife. He's posting, so we here his view from his biased perspective. We're not seeing posts from her, so we have no idea what she's thinking or seeing or feeling. We can only guess.

 

There's a zillion bad signs on this one. But, I am rarely of the belief that a marriage is absolutely dead and lifeless. There's always hope. I've seen marriages recover from much worse than this.

 

Regardless, I cry for the unwilling victim in this; the little boy who doesn't understand.

[Chicup 41]

ncmd_couple said:

Chicup,

 

Many years ago I came home from work and found my now ex-wife going up the stairs to the bedroom with a friend of mine naked. I asked her what was going on, and she told me. I had three choices, storm out of the house and find a lawyer, pick up one of my guns and shoot his ass, and maybe hers, or join in. I joined in and we had a great threesome. Don't impose your reactions on Jon, you don't know him, and neither do I. He has to find his own path. In this particular case I find your "fuck the world" attitude a negative. No, he isn't dealing with swinging or poly. He is dealing with life!

 

I think to put it into your scenario, your wife would have had to say 'Either get out and let me have my fun, or get out and let me have my fun, I'm doing this, sorry you don't like it.'

 

I read a book a long time ago which had a line in it that stuck to me even 20 years later. It was 'I hate whipped puppies because they allow themselves to be whipped.'

 

In this case accepting this is allowing himself to be whipped. Some guys like that, but he doesn't seem to be enjoying it much. This isn't a 'fuck the world' attitude, this is a 'Don't let people fuck you over' attitude. People deserve more than a spouse which worries about their own feelings without caring about the others.

 

Many moons ago I started having 3somes without my wife there. It was something that started slowly, always with her blessing, and always with her feelings coming first. Even now, when I've had more 3somes without her than I can count, if it started to bother her I'd stop, instantly. I'd be disappointed, I happen to enjoy them, and I'd be even more concerned as to why she had a change of heart, but that would be that.

 

I can't even fathom doing to my wife what she has done to him. It doesn't even register. Its cruel, and no one should be expected to accept it.

[ncmd_couple 597]

Well, Chicup,

 

My focus has always been on my partner's satisfaction and happiness. Yes, this is a screwed up situation. But my view still stands with me, shine lights down the paths, don't just tell him he is screwed, we don't know what will happen, neither does he.

[pants_1 27]

Ok, some responses:

 

First, I've spent part of the second half of today making my peace with the most likely outcomes. I agree that I should choose a response to this situation that balances my dignity and my needs with our son's needs. But there is also some room for what she needs as well. She is my son's mother, and my best friend, and I do want her to be happy.

 

Second, I can settle the cheating thing. I indicated that it might be considered cheating (I may have said that I consider it cheating, but I don't want to misrepresent the situation). She said it wasn't cheating, because I knew it was going to happen. She does not normally rationalize her actions so illogically.

 

Third, yes, my wife's perspective is REALLY not represented here, and that frsutrates her. What she has told me is that I was unfair to her, and to the other guy, by changing my minid at the last minute (I admit I was unfair to her, but I only feel it would be discourteous to him for her to cancel). That the whole thing was unfair because I waited until the very last minute, and that I was trying to go along with everything and encourage her, even when I started to have doubts (guilty), and that I had suggested she try swinger's web sites, and she was just going along with it. And that it was selfish and unfair of me to set it up so that she would feel guilty about her weekend playdate. She also thinks I'm obsessing and freaking out, probably for no reason. I could be...

 

She did at least agree that the situation was a serious risk, and agreed to phone me every eight hours. A friend suggested that I have her call me tonight on HIS cell phone, so that I could get the number for sure. She decided that might make him uncomfortable, as he might feel it would expose him to the potential wrath of a jealous husband. So I have the cell phone number he gave her, which she consented to give me without telling him. Should this make me more nervous?

 

I guess that polyamory comment wasn't really meant for her. That would require amore. Per our conversation last night, she loves me, but not really "that way." She claims she doesn't really love "that way" at all. Heartbreaking thing to finally understand. She's tried to tell me earlier, but it was out of context.

 

A problem we have had is that she is attracted to very active personalities that challenge her. I challenge her mentally, which means she she occaistionally finds attractive, kind of like having a fetish for "professor" types. She claims she has an enormous sex drive, but it just isn't ever directed my way.

 

I suspect that she may really be able to feel "that way" about a more adventurous guy, but that sounds really hurt and defensive. But I guess that was really her idea. We had talked about having regular partners, someone she could go do "adventure-" or "extreme" sports with. But what I only realized last night was that, even if that were only for a few weeks each year, if anyone was to be the real "loved" one, it would be him. Or possibly neither of us. But if I wanted love, I was free to try and find it myself, with or without her.

 

I don't think we're completely screwed. Counseling is an option. Sticking with it and seeing where it leads is an option. Waiting for her to have an epiphany is a (very unpromising) option. There are always possibilities. And I'll have my favorites. But whatever we do is likely to be slow and careful and deliberate. I hope!

[slevin 1,374]

All of her rationalizations are done to protect her interests and to get what she wants. Yes you changing your mind at the last minute sucks and isn't really fair to her, but what she has done isn't fair to you. Your actions were done with her in mind and your relationship with her in mind, her actions were done with her in mind. What this other guy thinks or feels doesn't matter. He is immaterial to your relationship with her. The fact that she brings this up shows that she either used it to guilt trip you, or she actually does care that he is inconvenienced.

 

This is a bigger deal than I think you're feeling at the moment. While it may very well be possible for your marriage to make it through this troubled time, it is going to take some serious thought and commitment on your part. I don't mean commitment to her or commitment to your relationship, I mean commitment to making yourself happy first, commitment to getting what YOU want from the relationship regardless of what that means. Yes you want her to be happy, but you don't want that happiness to be at the expense of your happiness. So make YOU happy first, then see if she can be happy without impacting your happiness as well. One major side effect of you making yourself happy is that you will likely become more attractive to her. The trick with this though is that your motivation needs to be making yourself happy and not trying to be happy so you're more attractive. See the subtle difference?

 

This is a time when being selfish is needed.

 

Also, ignore her whole bit about not being able to love "that way". Trying to read into that isn't going to help you out any.

 

Yes this is your perspective and I'm only able to address that. If she were on here posting (honestly) her perspective and (honestly) seeking input and advise then perhaps we'd be able to help you both as a couple (or both as individuals). But she isn't. Feel free to suggest that she might get something out of posting here, but I suspect that we'd end up with another situation like Loki and his wife with her feeling like she needs to justify herself and her actions. I'm not comparing your relationship situation to theirs though, so dont take that the wrong way.

 

In any case, you have a lot on your hands right now, but you've got a good attitude about handling it. Keep a healthy and positive attitude, focus on yourself (and your son) and get to making yourself happy.

[pants_1 27]

Thanks Slevin, I think I do understand. I just wish I really did know what would make me the most happy, and what would best serve the needs of my son. to do that, I kind of need to understand why she is doing what she is doing, because the one thing I really need if this is to continue is to be able to trust her, and that's gettting harder by the minute. But since she's not here to discuss, I'll end up stewing about what she's done. Thinks I.

 

And yes, at this point I think she would be very defensive if she joined this discussion, and, given what's been said, I wouldn't blame her. Not that I don't appreciate people's thoughts, mind you.

 

Speaking of positive thoughts... one of the advantages of having taken the whole swinging/ open/ alternative/ whatever lifestyle thing very seriously for the past few weeks is that, if we can patch things up and build back the trust, the fact that she will have (presumeably) had sex outside our marriage is not going to be as big an impediment as it would be in a vanilla relationship.

 

Last point: I am guilty of sending her mixed signals. I asked her to please not go. But when it was clear she was going to go, I told her I wanted her to have a good time. And I kind of do... there's not point in her doing all of this and not enjoying it. And I can't really lay a huge guilt trip on her for it. I really wanted to just excuse myself from the whole thing.

[IvoryTowers 380]

Just a few thoughts here, which I hope are helpful.

 

1. While your posts are obviously (and inescapably) biased toward your own viewpoint, what I have noticed over and over is that your wife does not seem to care about the health of the relationship you two have. She cares about herself (which is natural and healthy), and about you (somewhat) and the child (obviously). But you might ask yourself and her if she is willing to work on and sacrifice for the marriage. If not, or if she is done with that, it seems you need to abandon the traditional marriage model. That might mean divorce or it might mean agreeing to live together as roommates while pursuing sex elsewhere.

 

2. Divorce is not the end of the world for kids, especially if handled well (both parents continue to stay in the kid's life and to behave well towards each other). What will destroy his life is growing up in a household of lies, resentment and dead feelings.

 

3. I don't get this need for adrenaline you refer to. Is your wife bored in her job, her marriage, her life in general? Has she always been a risk taker, someone who thrives on danger? If so, is this sexual adventure similar to other dangerous activities? Or is she 'busting loose' after feeling tied down for years? I guess what I'm really confused about here is whether this running off to meet another man is really about the sex. Sometimes, it seems to be about the possible danger, sometimes about breaking free of her present life. If it isn't just about sex, then even giving her the freedom to sleep with other men isn't going to fix your relationship.

 

Good luck.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

I'm just curious Jon, what reactions do potential playmates on your end have toward your situation?

 

How do they feel about your wife?

 

Do you have potential playmates in real social settings like work or outside activities, or just the INTERNET for now?

[pants_1 27]

Ivory,

 

1. I agree. She really does care about me. From what she's said, she feels that she's done enough sacrificing for the marriage. She would point out that she never planned to get married to anyone. Although these were mutual decisions, she didn't want to move to Austin for my career (although I nixed Berkeley, partly because she didn't want to go), she wanted to adopt, not have a "birth child," etc. etc.

 

Abandoning the traditional marriage model is apparently what she was thinking all along... we badly miscommunicated on what she meant. What she had in mind was live-in FWB. As pointed out on another thread, that isn't really a marriage. or to quote another song:

"it's harder to be friends than lovers

and you shouldn't try to mix the two

'cause if you do it and your still unhappy

then you know that the problem is you."

 

2. I get you completely. We're both children of divorce (her of several), and I am not for "staying together for the kids." On the other hand, there's a difference between four- and ten years old. We have the former. We are also both students, and we can barely maintain one household between us.

 

Under the circumstances, it is looking alot like my best option is to "take one for the team" here. Of course, I'm a stewer, naturally passive agressive, with a touch of a martyr complex (damn you mom), so I'm a little worried about whether I can do it without making things worse.

 

3. My thoughts exactly. But I'm not sure what it is about. It is NOT about the sex, per se. But she isn't attracted to me except occasionally, and she is apparently attracted to this guy, so in that sense, it is about sex... having sex with someone she really wants to. But I don't know if she will need more, different partners, or more risks, or whatever.

 

She says she just wants some kind of long-term relationship with someone she can meet a few times a year. Her rationale for running out to meet up with this guy is that he is in a very similar situation to ours (staying with his wife only because they have an autistic son... wait, that's similar to our situation?!?!), and he has similar tastes and goals.

 

She is an adrenaline junky, meaning that she can't go without challenging herself, being a little on the edge. I was very concerned that this was an adrenaline thing, but I think now that it was a desperation thing... I think she was looking at this as her chance to be happy. She wants to have someone to do her extreme sports with. Sharing that stuff apparently is the key to her finding someone attractive. She found a likely prospect, and was willing to risk it all to see if it would work.

 

 

For anyone worrying about things, she's alive, as of 9:00 this morning. Sounds fine. They have consummated whatever it is they are doing. She could still be in danger, but I'm significantly less worried. She was curt and self-conscious, but from the sound of things, she's not unhappy with the guy. At least something good is coming of this.

[pants_1 27]

I'm just curious Jon, what reactions do potential playmates on your end have toward your situation ?

 

How do they feel about your wife ?

 

Do you have potential playmates in real social settings like work or outside activities, or just the INTERNET for now ?

 

Morbid curiosity? Very interesting questions...

 

I only have a very few potential playmates, and all are internet-based. Under the circumstances, I elected to contact them and inform them that drama was occurring, and that I wasn't really going to be playing anytime soon. I wasn't to that stage with anyone anyway, but I've tried to make it clear that that this is an extraordinary situation, and I'm not planning to take it personally if anyone wants to excuse themselves from the situation entirely. And I try not to make that sound like a guilt-trip!

 

Reaction has been pretty reasonable. Friends and potential playmates have been sympathetic to me, but also have tried to understand her position. Of course, given that it is filtered through me, my evolving understanding of her position colors their reactions significantly. Apart from the safety issues, and general concerns for my feelings though, people seem to be being reasonable.

[socolais 696]

Earlier, I suggested you be supportive and encourage her encounter - now, I wonder if any more comments from me would be helpful or not.

 

You've made a lot of comments about how you feel and it's very important to take inventory of all your needs and wants. It's quite likely she's reevaluating her perceptions.

 

What happens when she comes home??? I imagine this is a significant milestone in your marriage. If she has sex with others, does that take sex away from you? Can you find happiness in her happiness? Would you feel slighted if you never got your chance at an adventure? Will the changes in the relationship change your appreciation of each other?

 

This is an opportunity to grow closer to each other and understand deeper needs. Who moved my cheese....

[pants_1 27]

Socolais,

 

I don't think that comments are unhelpful at the time just because you later change your mind. The many different takes presented here have really helped me develop perspective on my situation (still developing). And don't think I haven't noticed that you guys are "keeping me talking." Basic emotional crisis management. Very much appreciated...

 

It's not a milestone, it is a crossroads... one of those awful, formerly rural crossroads near the core of cities that grew too rapidly, where five roads come together at odd angles, and there is no way to go straight through.

 

I don't know if she is reevaluating anything right now, but I'm sure she will eventually. I don't think she'll "take sex away from me," we don't have much anyway. We'll probably have more, assuming I feel comfortable with it. As for happiness... I am currently considering my son first.

 

I think we've moved well past "chance to adventure." And no, I don't think I'll feel slighted, And I am pretty sure I'll eventually have my own extramarital relations, as it were. Even in my very unsuccessful single life, I still got laid... and I'm much better at it now.

 

As for the cheese... wow, that is nice and cheesy! I think you may have missed some of the meat of the previous posts (there are so many, by now). Our appreciation has already changed, although so far not in a productive direction. Growing closer is a possibility, but I am inclined to favor the position espoused by others, that swinging cannot fix a broken marriage. Trying to repair this situation could help, but that depends a great deal on whether both parties think the situation is broken

 

As of right now, only one side thinks there is a problem.

[IvoryTowers 380]

On the other hand, there's a difference between four- and ten years old. We have the former. We are also both students, and we can barely maintain one household between us.

 

Under the circumstances, it is looking alot like my best option is to "take one for the team" here. Of course, I'm a stewer, naturally passive agressive, with a touch of a martyr complex (damn you mom), so I'm a little worried about whether I can do it without making things worse.

 

While I haven't been in your exact situation, I have been in the "student and therefore trapped in a terrible living situation" situation (yes, yes, that was horribly structured). I therefore offer two pieces of advice after agreeing with you that at least at the moment you may well be stuck.

 

1. Most schools have free to low cost therapy. Get yourself in to talk to someone, so you can help survive without stewing or making things worse.

 

2. Pick an end date. Don't just drift along hoping to find a way out. You will feel so much better if you say "In a year...as soon as I finish my dissertation...when our son is 8...I will immediately reevaluate this situation. Knowing that there is a date, but the date is not now can help you survive as long as you need to. Just make sure your reasons are valid, not based in fear of change or hope that things will magically get better. If you can't afford to live apart, live together until you can, but make sure you work towards that happening as quickly as possible.

 

And good luck. My sympathies are with you all, as this is a difficult situation.

[pants_1 27]

IvoryTowers,

 

Very good advice! I already have professional help, for unrelated issues, and we spoke on the phone today. I have insurance as a TA, so I'm only out the copay!

 

I do like the end date idea a lot. I'm concerned that it might carry the wrong connotations, though. I can't really set a date without discussing it with my wife: I don't want to take unilateral action. I also don't want to be cloak-and-dagger, and even if I did, she has access to everything on these boards. And if she knows I'm thinking about an end date (or "failsafe date") she might not feel as committed to making whatever it is we decide to do work. Or maybe she would be moreso... I dunno.

 

Fear of change is what I've been dealing with all weekend. I think I'll be ready. Hope that things will get better isn't really an issue either. She's not going to suddenly start feeling differently. The "best" outcome for the relationship (not necessarily the best for us, I don't know) would be for us to accept the situation as it is now, and move on happily with our lives. It's not going magically turn into something it hasn't been for years. Not now.

[slevin 1,374]

A couple of quick thoughts:

 

• You accepting that she went off and spent the weekend with this guy even after telling her you didn't want her to will make her lose respect for you.
   
  
• You accepting it and not going out to find women to meet for yourself will make her lose respect and attraction for you.
   
  
• You ignoring what happened and going out to do your own thing seems like the wrong thing to do, but is really what you need to do right now IMO. If only for your own sanity and not to actually try and fix anything.
   
  
• The only thing that you need to focus on (I know, I'm beating a dead horse here) is what makes you happy. I mean as a whole and not just in your relationship. Rediscover friendships you let die, rediscover hobbies that you put aside, go try out all the things you've wanted to try but have put off. Go start leading a life that makes you happy. Of course through all that make sure your son is happy and safe, but focus exclusively on you.
  

 

I'll stop beating the horse for a while lol

[slevin 1,374]

I do like the end date idea a lot. I'm concerned that it might carry the wrong connotations, though. I can't really set a date without discussing it with my wife: I don't want to take unlateral action. I also don't want to be cloak-and-dagger, and even if I did, she has access to everything on these boards. And if she knows I'm thinking about an end date (or "failsafe date") she might not feel as comitted to making whatever it is we decide to do work. Or maybe she would be moreso... I dunno.

 

If you end up planning on splitting up definitely do that planning on your own, make your decisions, discuss it with a lawyer and follow through with it. Take unilateral action to make yourself happy and ensure that your son is in the best situation possible. Trying to be fair is going to end up with you getting screwed in a divorce; if you go the route of a divorce the idea is to ensure your happiness and the health/welfare of your son. Not saying that you need to screw her over, but if you don't take actions to protect yourself chances are you'll be the one getting screwed (a frequent occurrence in divorce).

 

Also, I am not trying to advocate divorce as the solution here. It is a distinct possibility though and something that needs to be thought about at least to make sure that you protect yourself.

 

If you set a time-line, don't communicate it. Make it a mental note, let things unfold however they do and follow through with whatever decision you've made. Communicating it sets things up as an ultimatum (things are fixed by December or I am leaving) which will only serve to make her more defensive. Setting a mental date for yourself that if things don't start to be better by December you will set in motion your plans (whatever those plans are). I think you need immediate plans regardless of what happens with your relationship as well.

[pants_1 27]

slevin,

 

I hear you.

 

• I think that she left at all means that she doesn't respect me, no? I don't think I'm going to "accept" it. We are going to have to talk about it, because it is a serious breach of trust, and suggests that there may be deeper problems.
   
  
• I will be looking for women, regardless. However, I don't think it is a good idea to do so at this particular moment, "on the rebound" as it were. The potential for drama is too great. Also, I am going through this in a very public forum, and I can't just go around talking to women pretending there is nothing wrong. On the other hand... "hey, I'd like to meet up. Just let me finish having a prolonged discussion with my wife about the future of our marriage."
   
  
• I'm not going to do anything precipitous, unless it is forced on me. I can't... there's a child involved. I'm not going to ignore it, though. We have things to talk about. Or not talk about. But there has to be an element of mutual decision here.
   
  
• Believe it or not, I am planning to focus on what I want. Right now, though, I have a serious deadline for school, so that will be most of what I do. It does make me happy, so that's ok. And a friend is going to take me out on the town soon, just for fun!
  

 

Thanks!

 

Jon

[ncmd_couple 597]

slevin said:

Also, I am not trying to advocate divorce as the solution here. It is a distinct possibility though and something that needs to be thought about at least to make sure that you protect yourself.

 

If you set a time-line, don't communicate it. Make it a mental note, let things unfold however they do and follow through with whatever decision you've made. Communicating it sets things up as an ultimatum (things are fixed by December or I am leaving) which will only serve to make her more defensive. Setting a mental date for yourself that if things don't start to be better by December you will set in motion your plans (whatever those plans are). I think you need immediate plans regardless of what happens with your relationship as well.

 

One of the problems with on-line forums like this, is that we don't know the whole story. Jon is not saying everything that is happening in their lives, and with good reason I suspect. Personally, I think that we need to be supportive and a safe haven for him to bounce his thoughts off of. We don't need to be reading too much into what he is asking for. Yes, this is going to be an unfolding saga. I wish that I was close enough to take the guy out for a beer and let him blow off some steam. As someone who has gone through a divorce, I will save the divorce advice for when it it needed, and that isn't now.

[ncmd_couple 597]

pants_1 said:

And a friend is going to take me out on the town soon, just for fun!

 

That is a good idea, Let me know when, and I will hoist one with you!

[slevin 1,374]

As someone who has gone through a divorce, I will save the divorce advice for when it it needed, and that isn't now.

 

Like I said, I am not advocating divorce as the solution, or the correct option. Quite the contrary in fact; I'm aware it's tough for us to really know the whole situation which is why my advice has been mostly centered around him figuring out what he wants. Though we can't read the whole situation and advise whats best for their relationship, when he has sorted out what he wants we can definitely give advice and perspective (drawn from our personal experiences) to help him achieve that.

 

Being aware of what is involved in divorce, the steps he would need to take and what to expect is purely arming yourself with knowledge, which is never a bad thing. It's a distinct possibility here (either from his perspective or hers) and understanding it will help ensure that nothing bad happens. My comments with respect to divorce are purely based on obtaining information and absolutely not advising to take action with it unless that becomes what he wants.

[2inSanDiego4u 181]

Like I said, I am not advocating divorce as the solution, or the correct option. Quite the contrary in fact; I'm aware it's tough for us to really know the whole situation which is why my advice has been mostly centered around him figuring out what he wants. Though we can't read the whole situation and advise whats best for their relationship, when he has sorted out what he wants we can definitely give advice and perspective (drawn from our personal experiences) to help him achieve that.

 

Being aware of what is involved in divorce, the steps he would need to take and what to expect is purely arming yourself with knowledge, which is never a bad thing. It's a distinct possibility here (either from his perspective or hers) and understanding it will help ensure that nothing bad happens. My comments with respect to divorce are purely based on obtaining information and absolutely not advising to take action with it unless that becomes what he wants.

 

Have to agree with slevin here. It never hurts to be prepared, even if it does not come to that. Have your ducks lined up since divorce is a possible outcome. Things will be much easier for you later if you are prepared now, should this happen. Whatever you do, do not tell your spouse that you have contacted an attorney. For the time being, think of yourself as being in a chess game. Think ahead and react to her moves, without giving up your strategy. Play this smart and you'll come out of this OK, all of you, regardless of the final outcome.