The Big Day...

[NCfuncouple98 367]

I assume she is home now? Please let us know how the discussions go.

[pants_1 27]

On the advice of several folks out there, I've decided it would be better if I didn't post anything for a while. She is home safely, and we plan to work hard toward resolving this situation in the best possible manner. But right now the focus has to be on the two of us communicating with each other.

 

I appreciate everyone's support and advice this weekend. It has made a miserable situation bearable [sic?... damn I'm tired!].

[Guest rdy46227]

I don't want to be negative, but just relate what happened to me.

 

By not filing first, I lost control of the process. We had agreeded to work together, draw up property list, decide visitation, etc. and go together to a lawyer to have our wishes implemented. and what we agreed was to be an amiable divorce turned rabid after her lawyer got her worked up.

 

For example, as petitioner, her lawyer wrote a settlement which almost completely restricted my access to the kids, and we had to have another fight after the property fight.

 

At the beginning, I wanted her to have all I could reasonably give her. For example, when I was served, I voluntarily gave her an allowance which was larger than the temporary support amount the judge ordered a couple of months later. Early on, I offered her 80% of the assets to just settle and stop fighting, which she declined on her lawyer's advice.

 

You sound like you're interested in what's best for everyone, as was I. But with her adversarial lawyer in the driver's seat, no one got what they could and should have gotten.

 

Moral: take control and file first, not so you can screw her over, but so that she can't screw you.

 

This woman sounds like one who, after deciding to part with you, will turn on you.

[Chicup 41]

The only one who wins in a divorce fight are the lawyers. They will always try to make it a confrontation, and this makes the divorce long and costly, which equals profit to them.

[pants_1 27]

We are making progress on the trust issue, and discovering a SERIOUS comunication deficit from over the past few months (duh). Unfortunately, this situation has played into both of our insecurities, and the result has been a lot of hurt feelings, paranoia, and anger. We have accepted responsibility for our respective parts in those miscommunications, and she has acknowledged that she took some grave risks. For right now, we are at the "talking this out and seeking help" stage.

 

While I recognize that this situation could still turn bad, and I could be leaving myself open for a thwomping, my wife is very important to me, and I'm committed to trying to make things work for us. If I am leaving myself open to her "turning on me," I'm not taking that risk blindly.

 

I really do appreciate everyone's advice. However, since my previous posting was apparently too subtle, let me put this blunty: please stop talking about divorce! If I were planning anything (which I am currently not), discussing this on a public board that my wife already knows about would be tipping my hand. Even if I don't discuss it, she knows I've been a little upset, and that I've been checking on things all this weekend trying to figure out what's going on. When (not if) she eventually looks at this thread, she's already going to feel a little upset that sides were taken "against her." The more everyone discusses it, the harder it is going to be for her to keep from feeling paranoid.

 

So, please, please give the divorce talk a rest. I am so grateful for everyone's help. Just help me on this one thing.

[slevin 1,374]

Awesome to hear that you're both starting to communicate more and open up with each other. Regardless of whatever situations have happened before hopefully you can both use what has happened to make your relationship work for both of you.

 

If your wife does come on here, I am sure that a lot of this thread will make her upset, but I hope that she can see through that to see that everything that was said here was said with your interests in mind. Everyone who posted here would be more than happy to offer her the same attention if she decided to participate here as well. I definitely wouldn't want to see it turn into a "he said, she said" kind of situation where you're both arguing on here or using this place to settle disputes. Make it a positive thing!

[the roman 15]

Hi - having the ability to choose what we want to do is such an awesome thing even though with this gift there also comes so many emotions and feelings. I personally have zero experience with open marriage although at times the idea of my beautiful soulmate wife, whom I love and adore beyond words, fucking another man without me drives me wild! I do know that there is not any one correct answer to your questions. to one couple - your scenario works, to another - crash and burn. Where it is right for each partner to consider the others emotions and feelings, when it comes down to it - each partner should do what they want to do because that is the truth. if my wife wanted to go out with the girls every fri/sat night instead of hanging with me - but i stopped her or busted her chops about it and she stopped for that reason - her desire to do it would still be there so its not like our intimacy levels kicked up a notch. but if I told her how I felt and she thought about it and decided to figure out WHY she preferred her friends company over mine and the behavior changed - thats her making a total decision and thats what love is about. of course, please remember, writing this is easy - living it is very difficult.

tara and I have been together for 20 years this may - since she was 16. its amazing how f-ing fast 20 years can pass. after the 3rd child stopped nursing and the evenings became ours as a cpl again, it became apparent that my wife preferred lying down with the 3 kids and going to sleep with them - for the night - like 8PM?!? That was 5 or so years ago. I didnt realize the actual dynamic for almost 2 years. I just know that i'd go to wake her at 9 and she wouldnt wake up yet she also wouldnt stop lying down with them. and she also wouldnt validate that this was happening.

long story short -this started what counselors and therapists might call the Power Struggle phase of a LTR. We've had a rough ride these past 5 years but what we've learned made it all worth it as we are so much closer now -and let me tell you - we were always close - we blissed like no cpl i know.

here's where im going with this. 2 years ago, we saw a relationship counselor recommended by the priest from our church. on our first meeting, he said something that i didnt want to hear. he said that if we work with him, there's the chance we might find out we dont want to be together anymore. a chill ran through me. i decided i wouldnt let that happen.

as I learned and began to understand the awesome depths of relationships, love, feelings - i realized that if that reality came to be - then so be it and a weight lifted off me like ive never felt. our relationship certainly isnt perfect and we're still power struggling - hell, shes mad at me right now - in fact, ironically, right now she's in bed with the girls! lol thats almost too funny in a way.

your feelings are beyond your control. but they are real and you need to understand them. what you described in your opening post i can identify with. you need to let her know these feelings but not blame her or make her responsible for your happiness. the thought of my wife flirting, being seduced and fucking someone else turns me on to no end - and im a wild man - id make it all come together for her in a heartbeat if she wanted to do it. and while it was all happening i'd be borderline freaking out too. and FYI - we've had a few MMF and a few MFM 3somes so ive seen it - its fucking hot - like blow my head off hot. its the hottest thing ive ever seen and i had not a single issue with it. i wonder if i'd be as cool if she were doing it solo?? or if she was on her 2nd and i was still working on 1. that old FEAR motherf-er rears its head in many ways. anger, jealousy, rejection, hurt - its all fear. the chick is always, always, always going to get laid quicker and easier. thats the way it is. you both need to set incremental boundaries based on comfort levels. i would wager that if the scenario were reversed and she was batting zero while babysitting and you were banging them 2 at a time - she'd be right where you are to some degree. boundaries are constantly being redefined as you both experience. if it turns out ya'll made some mistakes - how else does one gain wisdom? maybe you dont really care about sex with other women but love her fucking other men. thats me. put me in a motel room with 6 hotties and my wife and all i salivate for is Tara. its true. im not into mfm 3somes or cpl swapping. i get off watching her get fucked - period. i had to come to terms with that.

thats where i think you may be having some issues. what do YOU want man? Figure that out first. People say communicate, communicate, communicate but to really communicate - thats not so easy. it took me several counselors, a weekend at the catholic Retrouvaille (with Tara), 2 years of probation mandated weekly classes (which were awesome) and a shitload of humility to finally realize i didnt know how to communicate. (i think i finally realize it) Tara's even worse - lol. She really sux at it.

so many cpls give up wayyy to soon. my counselor told me conflict serves to bring cpls closer together. its so true. if you can interpret your real feelings then convey them to her without making her responsible, you will start finding answers none of us can even begin to advise you on.

Whew. im done and sorry for the length - believe it or not, this is the ultra shortened version of what I really wanted to write. Good luck.

[pants_1 27]

Many years ago I came home from work and found my now ex-wife going up the stairs to the bedroom with a friend of mine naked. I asked her what was going on, and she told me. I had three choices, storm out of the house and find a lawyer, pick up one of my guns and shoot his ass, and maybe hers, or join in. I joined in and we had a great thresome.

 

You have all offerred a tremendous amount of good thought and good advice along with your support on this thread. I am grateful for everyone's efforts. This one particular story has stood out in my mind so much I have used it to explain my position to my wife.

 

Not because I think it sounds like the best idea... but you were flexible enough to keep from snapping when the wind picked up. You took a passive situation, something being done TO you, and became actively involved without taking over. You set aside what most people would assume was the right thing to do, and took your own path. And you showed tremendous compassion.

 

And no, I did notice that was an "ex-wife," so I assume things eventually didn't work out. But I don't think anyone can say you didn't try to find a way to make things work!

[pants_1 27]

Ok, everybody, I thought I'd just give you a one-week update. In short, so far, so good.

 

My wife and I have had some very good, very frank discussions about a whole lot of things this past week. We've uncovered some major miscommunications on a number of important issues (gee, you think?). Most importantly, we (or at least I) have discovered that some of the things I thought were gone from our marriage are actually still there. After thinking long and hard about what I want (thanks to everyone who suggested that), I feel that even if our marriage doesn't improve, I'm actually pretty happy with where we are, and I want to keep going. Those feelings are certainly mutual.

 

We are also very clear on the safety issues that have been a major concern during this recent crisis. We are on the same page regarding how dangerous her actions were, and, without making threats or ultimatums, it is clear that further behavior like that id going to seriously compromise our relationship. My wife has explained her actions to me in detail. I may come across sounding like a patsy or a chump for saying this, but I understand why she acted so rashly, and I have forgiven her for hurting my feelings and for scaring the living crap out of me.

 

There are still strong emotions involved here... some hurt feelings, some latent mistrust, some jealousy, some feelings of inadequacy, some basic confusion about how to handle what has become a much more complex "emotional landscape." But we are supporting each other, and trying to learn how to separate the various feelings and deal with them, so that they don't fester. I am heartened because the more "negative" emotions I feel are not directed toward my wife, but are mostly internal feelings. This situation has forced me to deal with nearly every major insecurity and long-term problem I have, and in some ways, it maybe a good opportunity to grow past those problems.

 

I am still in the process of exploring what I want out of our "arrangement." We've been making use of the resources suggested (on another thread) regarding polyamory, and both of us have been talking with other people about how they go about their non-traditional approach to adult relationships. I suspect that, in the end, I'm going to be very very picky about my extramartial associations. Yes, that means I will be having a LOT fewer of them than otherwise; I still think that "keeping score" is the absolute wrong approach for me.

 

I am still on hiatus, but don't think I'll be off the market for long. I've been out meeting people, trying to redevelop my own social life, trying to get a handle on where I am going. In the mean time, just meeting people with the possibility that something might happen is very exciting, and I'm having a great time.

 

People like labels, and I think that, to be fair, I am going to stop using the terms "swinging" and "swinger" to describe myself within "lifestyle" circles, because they carry connotations that I am not sure apply to me. However, thanks to some very kind, wonderful people, I"m exploring exactly what those connotations are in a safe environment, so that I can make those choices in a careful, informed manner. And, honestly, it is just fun to hang out with folks who are that straightforward about what they want, and what they do!

 

So, anyway, I just wanted to let you all know where we are. It is still very much a work in progress, like any relationship. But it is something WE are working on together, because WE want to, not because we feel forced to. It may very well not work out, but if it doesn't, it won't be because we didn't try!

 

Thanks again for all your help!

 

Jon

[2inSanDiego4u 181]

My wife and I have had some very good, very frank discussions about a whole lot of things this past week. We've uncovered some major miscommunications on a number of important issues (gee, you think?). Most importantly, we (or at least I) have discovered that some of the things I thought were gone from our marriage are actually still there. After thinking long and hard about what I want (thanks to everyone who suggested that), I feel that even if our marriage doesn't improve, I'm actually pretty happy with where we are, and I want to keep going. Those feelings are certainly mutual.

 

It's great to hear that you both want to move in the same direction. Now that you know where you want to go, you need to work very hard to achieve your goal. Get some counseling going ASAP and start taking the next step towards rebuilding your relationship. Maybe later once things are solid again you can re-visit the alternative lifestyle scene. I'm sure that this time you'll be approaching it a lot differently, which is a good thing!

[tnt69couple 64]

Thanks for all the input everybody. And I really appreciate the concern. Could someone direct me to the "soap opera that NCfuncouple98 posted?"

 

Also, I don't really consider watching my son "babysitting." I misspoke. We're going to go swimming a couple times, and I'm planning a small pizza party for us. We haven't had much time together recently, so this is father-son time.

 

Anyway, I do think there may be a couple of misunderstandings here, from my perspective. I think I may have given the impression that there is more drama here than I feel there is. Note that I am NOT going to tell you that you're wrong... I may not understand my own situation. I do know that sometimes theory and practice turn out very differently. This is just how I see it (now):

 

• I do know that women get more opportunities than men. My wife has already slept with more people than me, and I don't think that's ever going to change. I would really hope I'm not going to be "keeping score."
   
  
• For the record (not that it matters), she IS picky. I've never seen a single male profile on any of these sites that comes close to fitting the bill (and yes, I do look). She's checked out several sites, and gave up on them. This was a pretty big fluke.
   
  
• She did consult me before making her plans, we just didn't discuss the particular days she had in mind. And she forgot to ask about my schedule, so we had some awkward moments, like today when I had to drive to the store because I had left my wallet in her car, and I didn't realize she wasn't coming back. Sounds flakey, huh? there's a reason:
   
  
• My wife is a part-time graduate student, part-time stay-at-home-mom, and part-time in training for athletic competition. That she is distracted may have something to do with the fact that she has just started a new training regimen [sic?], where she works out until 7 or 8 on MWF, and gets up at 5 in the morning TR to go train. I can't sub out for her on those days, so she has to come back, take our son to school, pick him up, then keep up with a rowdy almost-four-year-old until he goes to bed (I take him at 5:00 MWF). She was a little sensitive and distracted just now when I got home... because she has had about five hours of sleep in the past 48 hours or so! Does that justify hurting my feelings? No. Should she be more sensitive and considerate? Yes. Should I cut her a little slack? Maybe...
   
  
• The fact that my wife is going off to visit some guy for the weekend is not my problem. I'm pretty comfortable with the idea. I'm not really taking one for the team: she goes off for a weekend, which means I'll get to take off some other time, if and when I find playmates. Cool. Maybe I never find somebody... whatever. I'll go visit friends.
   
  

 

So then, WTF is my problem, anyway?

 

• The problem is that I have to get through this first awkward, uncomfortable time alone. I don't think it has much to do with how we swing... it would have been awkward anyway (say, as a couple). Honestly, I rather prefer not watching right now... the physical distance translates to emotional distance for me. Like I said, she's had sex with other people before, but that is separated from me in space and time too. When we first started seeing each other, I didn't want to hear about them. Now I don't care. It just takes some time.
   
  
• My other problem may be some kind of OCD or something... I stew. Usually while cleaning the fish tank. It's really dumb, and I always realize later that I've been doing it. But I really don't want to make myself miserable this weekend.
   
  
• One of our problems as a couple is that we have needs that the other person can't meet. They aren't all sexual, either. Well... hers aren't. We can enjoy ourselves together in many many ways, but there are some ways we can't. And, unfortunately, those are ways she doesn't feel she can do without. And yes, I said "she..." she is the rate-limiting factor here. And yes, that does seem selfish of her, and yes, she does realize that she looks like a monster for this, and yes, I look like a patsy for going along with it. Those are crosses we'll have to bear.
   
  
• I am not worried that we won't get through this weekend. We've always been good communicators... if something really bad happens, we'll deal with it. If everything falls apart, we'll deal with that, too. We've already discussed divorce, and we have a protocol for how it would work. Sick, huh?
   
  
• We have had a lot of issues, largely surrounding this particular subject. She is the one who can't do without, so she is the one who will bear most of the blame if this doesn't work. She accepts that. I love my wife, and I really want to stay together, but I'm not going to let the fear of losing my marriage rule my life. I want to take this risk, and I'm willing to bet the farm. Maybe that's unromantic, but it's a big move for me personally, because I've always had a fear of abandonment.
   
  

 

Anyway, sincere thanks to everybody for their thoughts. I know some of you will probably just shake your heads and think "poor fool." And I honestly do appreciate the sentiment, because I've watched lots of people go down what I've really believed is the wrong path. I'll let you know how it goes!

 

Jon

 

P.S. Ok, now I am beginning to understand a lot more what people mean when they say "no drama!" LOL!

 

We seem to be just the opposite.

 

1. Sex is physical

 

2. Dating is emotional.

 

Even though I told her that it would not bother me for her to have sex while I am not there. I would not want her to go out on dates and become emotionally involved in another relationship.

[10thBadger 25]

On 2/1/2009 at 12:51 PM, pants_1 said:

Ok, everybody, I thought I'd just give you a one-week update. In short, so far, so good.

 

My wife and I have had some very good, very frank discussions about a whole lot of things this past week. We've uncovered some major miscommunications on a number of important issues (gee, you think?). Most importantly, we (or at least I) have discovered that some of the things I thought were gone from our marriage are actually still there. After thinking long and hard about what I want (thanks to everyone who suggested that), I feel that even if our marriage doesn't improve, I'm actually pretty happy with where we are, and I want to keep going. Those feelings are certainly mutual.

 

We are also very clear on the safety issues that have been a major concern during this recent crisis. We are on the same page regarding how dangerous her actions were, and, without making threats or ultimatums, it is clear that further behavior like that id going to seriously compromise our relationship. My wife has explained her actions to me in detail. I may come across sounding like a patsy or a chump for saying this, but I understand why she acted so rashly, and I have forgiven her for hurting my feelings and for scaring the living crap out of me.

 

There are still strong emotions involved here... some hurt feelings, some latent mistrust, some jealousy, some feelings of inadequacy, some basic confusion about how to handle what has become a much more complex "emotional landscape." But we are supporting each other, and trying to learn how to separate the various feelings and deal with them, so that they don't fester. I am heartened because the more "negative" emotions I feel are not directed toward my wife, but are mostly internal feelings. This situation has forced me to deal with nearly every major insecurity and long-term problem I have, and in some ways, it maybe a good opportunity to grow past those problems.

 

I am still in the process of exploring what I want out of our "arrangement." We've been making use of the resources suggested (on another thread) regarding polyamory, and both of us have been talking with other people about how they go about their non-traditional approach to adult relationships. I suspect that, in the end, I'm going to be very very picky about my extramartial associations. Yes, that means I will be having a LOT fewer of them than otherwise; I still think that "keeping score" is the absolute wrong approach for me.

 

I am still on hiatus, but don't think I'll be off the market for long. I've been out meeting people, trying to redevelop my own social life, trying to get a handle on where I am going. In the mean time, just meeting people with the possibility that something might happen is very exciting, and I'm having a great time.

 

People like labels, and I think that, to be fair, I am going to stop using the terms "swinging" and "swinger" to describe myself within "lifestyle" circles, because they carry connotations that I am not sure apply to me. However, thanks to some very kind, wonderful people, I"m exploring exactly what those connotations are in a safe environment, so that I can make those choices in a careful, informed manner. And, honestly, it is just fun to hang out with folks who are that straightforward about what they want, and what they do!

 

So, anyway, I just wanted to let you all know where we are. It is still very much a work in progress, like any relationship. But it is something WE are working on together, because WE want to, not because we feel forced to. It may very well not work out, but if it doesn't, it won't be because we didn't try!

 

Thanks again for all your help!

 

Jon

Badgers wife,

 

What happened to the men in the world to let a woman treat them like this. I just don’t understand it.

[MidwestHoneys 356]

1 hour ago, enhancer said:

Last post was 2009!  Doubt you will get an answer from ghosts.

No life…no clue. Now posting as his “wife” too. He will soon learn nobody cares that he says nothing good. Does the word Troll fit? 

[lcmim 1,081]

Binge reading all of these old threads in their entirety has been an interesting exercise. 

 

10ths comments do have the limitations that have been discussed elsewhere. They often fall in the category of , "To those who know ,no explanations necessary and to those do not know, no explanation is possible."

 

To me it sounds as though they have rules for their own marriage that work well for them. Some of them I even agree with. I am not sure though, from what I have read, that they would transpose well, for them, in the lifestyle.

[lcmim 1,081]

LOVTOSUC,

 

As I remember our internal couples dialogue before stepping into the water it was very much just exactly that.