He is a swinger; this is all new to me

[dburton 25]

I am dating someone who was in the Lifestyle with his ex-wife for over 10 years. He took a two year hiatus (which he was taking when we first met) and made the decision to re-enter the Lifestyle this January. He said that he missed the deep friendships he made and that the people he met in the Lifestyle were the closest friends that he ever had. I care for him very much and am willing to see if I can fit in/ handle this life choice. His concern is how to get me from "0 to 60 mph" (my analogy for his already being fully engaged and for me being a total newbie -- I haven't done anything yet). Does anyone have any ideas??? (If this information is relevant, we are both in our early 50s.)

[IvoryTowers 380]

The golden rule of swinging, which he should already know, is go at the pace of the slowest person. In other words, he should be willing and in fact happy to take things slowly so you are comfortable at all points.

 

It's wonderful that you are willing to explore the lifestyle, but make sure that you like it and are not just "doing it for him" which will destroy your relationship just as quickly as if he cheated on you. Talk a lot about what you want, what you think you might want and what you are uncomfortable doing (right now, that might change, and for the foreseeable future).

 

As him to take you to a few clubs or parties, but you set the pace. If all you want to do is watch and chat to people, that is all you should do. If you want to dance, or kiss another man or woman, but not more, know that's all right as well. No one is going to push you do things you make clear are off the table.

 

Have fun! Don't worry!

[dburton 25]

I am not sure if I am doing it for him or not. I do know that I am scared. I like what I have read about the lifestyle in terms of its openness, sense of freedom, etc. However, I have always associated sex with love. Sex in and of itself has never had much allure. In contrast, when I care for someone, I can't get enough. Your thoughts?

[BiloxiCouple 695]

Go slow, communicate and read here some more. Alot of good information and advice is already given here.

 

Also, No means No. First rule in the lifestyle.

 

Only you can decide if this is for you or not.

 

If you cannot separate love and sex you may have serious problems then.

 

If you tell him that this isn't for you what will his answer be? You may never get past 0 mph or you may get up to his 60 mph, still up to you.

 

Is he more interested in this for himself? Interested for you?

 

As a single man the swinging lifestyle can be (for the lack of a better word) unfullfilling. Could he be using you to get back into the lifestyle? Thus making it easier? Just a thought.

 

If you choose not to enter the lifestyle, how do you feel about him continuing or not continuing in the lifestyle?

 

Ya'll are still dating. The time to make a decision before it gets more serious.

[luvnksstyle 15]

y'all are dating . i presume you've had sex . well, the time table will probably match how long it took for you to have sex with him. if you only have sex as an expression of love for someone, then it will take you just as long to feel comfortable with swinging.

 

swingers are a bunch of great people. and i know using the word love is probably too much, but no one is ... or should push you before you're comfortable enough to test the waters, so to speak. and no one here is looking to break up your relationship, but if your relationship isn't strong enough, then ya shouldn't enter into the LS ..

 

as i always say... be you !! pursue your desires !! and believe!! if ya start doubting or feeling left out, the LS will just make ya feel worse. so be confident in who you are , what you have to offer ( what i can only assume ) to the greatest guy that has captured your heart and ... depending on your swimming style .... DIVE IN!! or just get your feet wet

[dburton 25]

Dear BiloxiCouple (and to anyone else who would like to respond):

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. Perhaps you can give me more insights. (Emotionally I am scared and thrashing.)

 

I would never choose the Lifestyle on my own. (Truthfully, I didn't know of its existence.) However, from everything I have read, it seems that it is an alternative way of living that has lots to recommend it. My upbringing (also known as the voice in my head) tells me that this is wrong; but that same voice still tells me "he will never respect you in the morning," which I know is nonsense.

 

The man I am dating is very honest and open (which seems to be a strong value of those who engage in the Lifestyle). He told me as soon as he made the decision even though he thought I would never understand and would probably end the relationship. He was hoping I would at least be somewhat curious and ask him questions. Obviously his hopes (versus his expectations) were realized.

 

He made the decision unilaterally, so I assume the answer to your question is that he more interested in this for himself than for me. Is that a problem? I don't think he is using me to get back in the Lifestyle. He is not manipulative.

 

He believes that he would be okay if I choose not the enter the Lifestyle. (It is something we still need to discuss further.) He also has agreed not to play with anyone who isn't already his friend (and part of a loving couple) -- a, perhaps, peculiar version of exclusivity that I requested. The problem for me is, if I don't enter, we won't be sharing our lives together fully. I also think that, ultimately, because he has always described the Lifestyle in terms of loving, committed couples, my lack of participation would be difficult for him.

 

You are right. I need to make a decision before it gets more serious and breaking up will becomes more painful. However, it seems that I won't know whether the Lifestyle is right for me unless I experience it. Your thoughts?

[slevin 1,374]

How serious is your relationship with this man? How serious is it on your side and how serious do you think it is for him as well?

[dburton 25]

Dear luvnksstyle (and to anyone else who would like to respond):

 

(1) Yes, we have had sex.

 

(2) His description of swingers as a "bunch of great people" is one of the Lifestyle's attraction to me. If the responses on this forum so far are any indication, he (and you) are right.

 

(3) He is not pushing me to enter the Lifestyle. (The comment "no means no" is so ingrained in his psyche that he asked me if he could kiss me on our first date -- an action that set him apart from other men who I have dated and attracted me to him. No one had ever asked before.)

 

(4) I am the one pushing me because I know it is an important part of his life, and I want to be part of his life. Those two factors alone would not be enough for me to take the plunge. I would never want to act in a way that is contrary to my being. Given everything that I have read, it seems like the Lifestyle has many benefits. I just don't know if I have the mental/ emotional fortitude to pursue it. (As I have already written a number of times in this forum, I'm scared.)

 

(5) What do you mean by "if ya start doubting or feeling left out, the LS will just make ya feel worse"? Could you explain your comment further?

 

(6) In terms of swimming, I have never learned to dive. (I guess it wouldn't surprise you that diving off a diving board scares me.) I have either canonballed or slowly lowered myself in a pool. Do you think that says a lot about how I will approach the Lifestyle (LOL)?

[2inSanDiego4u 181]

However, I have always associated sex with love. Sex in and of itself has never had much allure. In contrast, when I care for someone, I can't get enough. Your thoughts?

 

This does not sounds like the "typical" profile for a swinger. However, do you have fantasies about being with other men or women? This is an opportunity to explore that. You will definitely need to break the love/sex association, or at the very least channel the strong feelings from the encounter towards your significant other, not the person you had sex with. You should see the other person as a tool both of you are using to achieve a higher level of sexual satisfaction within your own relationship. Love is not part of the sexual encounter and should not be associated with it in any way.

[dburton 25]

Dear slevin (and to anyone else who would like to respond):

 

I am falling in love with him. I know that he cares for me. I believe he is beginning to have feelings of love for me, but I don't know for sure (it could just be wishful thinking). I decided the other day to have a conversation about our feelings towards each other the next time I see him (which given recent work and family commitments could be another week or two).

 

Why did you ask?

[dburton 25]

Dear 2inSanDiego4u (and to anyone else who would like to respond):

 

No, I definitely don't have a typical swinger profile (hence my concern/worry). I don't have fantasies about being with other men or women? The only "fantasies" I have ever had are romantic fantasies of being held and kissed by the man I love.

 

I clearly understand that love is not part of the sexual encounter and should not be associated with it in any way. What I don't know is if, because of the attitude that I have held for decades, I will be able to enjoy a sexual encounter with another man. (It took me years to stop listening to the other things I was told about relationships and sex by my parents. Those thoughts still go through my mind; I just don't give them any credence.) Did you and your partner always believe that sex and love were separate?

[slevin 1,374]

I ask because it concerns me a little that he made a unilateral decision without even discussing it with you at all. You were basically left to decide to either participate with him, stay with him and let him participate, or leave him. That doesn't sound like the way that a more serious relationship would approach the topic of swinging (not in a healthy way though). I'm not in a less serious relationship though, so perhaps my perspective on how that kind of decision gets made is out of touch with the 'dating' kind of thing.

 

Personally the fact that he made the decision then let you know makes me wonder how serious he is about your relationship. Though I do applaud him for making it clear what he expects from a relationship before it gets too serious.

[dburton 25]

Dear slevin:

 

Thanks for the insight. You raise a good point. We weren't a committed couple at the time he made the decision. He ran into some Lifestyle friends during the holidays, and I think he realized how much he missed them and the Lifestyle. Nonetheless, we were in a relationship, so perhaps he should have talked to me about it first. It is definitely an issue I need to raise with him. Is there anything else that may have escaped my notice that I need to ask/become aware of?

[slevin 1,374]

It's a touchy subject for you I think because if you weren't in a committed relationship then I don't think there is any real issue with him deciding that he wants to get back into the swinging scene again. Definitely would be good to figure out if this is getting serious for him as well; it would suck for you to go into this thinking that you and he are getting serious only to find out in a few months that he had different ideas about your relationship and you've worked hard at the relationship in the meantime.

 

Though, if you're truly intrigued by swinging and want to try it out for yourself then perhaps whether your relationship with him works out or not won't matter

[dburton 25]

Dear slevin:

 

THANK YOU so much for the time you have taken to write to me. Given the importance of keeping a person's Lifestyle choice private, I couldn't use any of my friends as a sounding board. Until I discovered this forum today, I felt that I had no one to talk to besides him.

 

Yes, I'm intrigued by swinging. The helpfulness and intelligence of people like you on this site has made me even more intrigued. I wouldn't pursue swinging as a single female. I really like the emphasis on couples with solid, committed relationships. ... It's going to be an interesting year ...

[ViSexual 1,008]

Whatever you decide, don't go along unless you really enjoy it.

 

Now, I'm not saying that you shouldn't try more than once because you're probably not going to really enjoy it until you get comfortable with it.

 

But, if after you've really tried, you still really don't enjoy it? Well, this relationship is probably not going to work out.

 

He might say he's willing to give it up for you. You two might come to some compromise about how he can indulge, at times, without you. But, trust me, he'll be in a position of feeling a little guilty and you'll be in a position of feeling cheated on.

 

My wife, of 37 years, joined me in the lifestyle but just never could get comfortable with it so 'we' quit. That was over thirty years ago. And, I have to admit, she even gave it another try about ten years ago. Same end results.

 

And, as you can see, I still miss the lifestyle and people in it. I sort of live, vicariously (thus the screen name), through my friends here.

 

And, I can honestly say that if I were to ever be single again I'd make sure any future relationship was with a woman who had expereinces with the lifestyle and enjoyed them.

 

It would be 'that' important to me and it sounds like it's 'that' important to your boyfriend too.

 

I hope that I've helped a little. I think your boyfriend and I share some feelings.

 

Either way, you sound like a very understanding and intelligent woman and I think your boyfriend is very lucky to have met you. Hope things work out for you both.

Rich

[lizandtom 512]

Just saw this thread and caught up. DBurton, Slevin brought up the most important point, which is that your b/f decided to swing regardless if you were on board or not. It is a pretty embedded concept that couples in the lifestyle are both there of their own volition and are secure with each other, yet in your case he said "I'm swinging, would love to have you on board, but if not I'm going solo." That does not say much AT ALL for his dedication to you two as a couple. Better put, if he had to choose between you and he monogamously, or sex with multiple partners within the lifestyle, it seems as though his choice has already been made. I quite frankly feel he's dissed you to a certain extent, except for the fact that you seem pretty down to earth and open to the possibilities. Without knowing you both it's hard to tell, so the threads are more surface talk than outright hard and fast advice.

 

To alleviate your trepidation in that separating love from sex will be insurmountably hard for you, most (women more than men) have felt the same way prior to entering the lifestyle, yet many, after some experiences have found that it truly becomes more like friends with benefits, if you and your b/f truly love each other. If you don't truly love each other then you may find yourself falling for someone else you hook up with (and not necessarily physically).

 

Also on your comment about not having fantasy's before, you certainly do, you just don't realize what they are yet because they've always been suppressed. You said your only fantasy is to have sex with the man you love. That, in and of itself, is the gateway. If you have a b/f and have dated men before, then you surely will find certain men attractive within the lifestyle. Down the road, if and when you encounter sex with others, you will find that lust with other men can be achieved without strong emotional ties. You will probably feel more of an emotional tie with the person of your first encounter though, which is normal. You haven't even begun exploring yet so to not realize any fantasies at this stage is normal as well; it is a perpetual work in progress.

 

Bottom line recommendation here is to ask your b/f to not engage in any lifestyle activities yet because you are truly trying to become open to the idea, but it is so new it will take some time. Over the course of a few months attend some off premise clubs/parties with him to get a better feel for if you're having fun or not meeting new people. In time your course of action will come automatically as you face each and every venue. After all, as a couple in the lifestyle, it is for both members to enjoy, not just one. If he's in it without you then he's purely a single guy having sex with others without you and eventually that will not work out for you two as a couple.

 

What part of FL are you in?

[Chicup 41]

There is an old joke in swinging.

 

Its the men who drag their wives to the party, and then have to drag them away from it.

 

The translation is that while its most often men to bring their wives/gf's into swinging, often with them reluctant to try, its the women who often enjoy it the most, to the shock of their husband/bf who's real motive was more selfish.

 

Honestly, you seem perfect to 'join our ranks'. You are thoughtful, you are investigating it, you are going in eyes wide open. If you were doing this JUST to please him/keep him, then I would caution you against it, but you seem to have your own interest. You might even find that even if you and your BF split up for some reason, you are still interested in the whole lifestyle thing beyond him.

[dburton 25]

Dear ViSexual,

 

Maybe you could help me out further. What about the lifestyle makes it so important to you that you still think about it so many years later?

[Swing*8701 887]

Ed here-- My wife Susan gave up group sex play when we married. I had no issues with her Play when we were dating, but it was not what I wanted in marriage. She agreed and had no problems just giving it up. After a month or so of marriage, i asked if she missed it. She said 'no'. For me, I stopped being threatened by the idea of her having sex with others. I asked to try it (if you go to the stories section, do an author search for Edison Carter and you'll find a story we wrote about my first experience).

 

I tried it and I liked it and we have continued to this day. Up to that moment, I always respected and was aware of alternate sexual ideas such as casual sex, multi partner sex, etc and just felt it was not for me. After trying it I found that I enjoyed it greatly and that Susan is an amazing wife, lover and that sharing her with others is simply an expression of being sexual and human. It's all been very positive, but we also treat sex as something powerful and to be handled with respect.

[Chicup 41]

Dear ViSexual,

 

Maybe you could help me out further. What about the lifestyle makes it so important to you that you still think about it so many years later?

 

I can't answer for Vi but I can tell you what I would miss.

 

First there is some excitement from being with new people sexually. We can't help it, its in our genes, and its just fun.

 

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, once you are a swinger and 'get it' its very hard to fully embrace vanilla friendships again. Most of the time you have to keep sexuality, comments, etc in check. Its against our natures to do so, its bottling up part of who we are. When you are with other swingers, you don't have to do that even if no sex is involved. You can let down your guard, not worry about jealousies, and just be who you are. Its hard to explain but your vanilla friends just seem so BORING after you have swinger friends.

 

Its quite a liberating experience once you get rid of the jealousy and perhaps other baggage you have with sex and relationships. Its a great feeling, one thats worth putting up with some of the difficulties being a swinger.

[Guest screaminggood]

I think you probably have found a great man---he's being honest with you, and even though you weren't committed at the time, he's being open about it with you. Obviously, it's important to him or he wouldn't have brought it up to you so soon.

 

My suggestions:

 

Talk to him about how he separates love and sex. Just listening to him will give you an indication of where he thinks your relationship is going.

 

Ask him if y'all can go to a club but definitely not play, that you just want to watch. If he really cares about you, he should be willing to go back to the rule that you go at the slowest partner's speed. That being said, realize that we are a hug/kissy type of crowd so don't be surprised if a woman who knows him walks up and gives him a kiss, but prepare yourself and HIM for it. Tell him that you just want to see what it's like, and you really need him to be completely mentally and physically with you. Why do I suggest you go to a club with him? If he was asking you to learn to tango, you'd at least go to a club to see the tango, right?

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

I would never choose the Lifestyle on my own.

 

We weren't a committed couple at the time he made the decision. He ran into some Lifestyle friends during the holidays, and I think he realized how much he missed them and the Lifestyle.

 

He told me as soon as he made the decision even though he thought I would never understand and would probably end the relationship.

 

He made the decision unilaterally, so I assume the answer to your question is that he more interested in this for himself than for me.

 

He believes that he would be okay if I choose not the enter the Lifestyle.

 

I am falling in love with him. I know that he cares for me. I believe he is beginning to have feelings of love for me, but I don't know for sure (it could just be wishful thinking).

 

The problem for me is, if I don't enter, we won't be sharing our lives together fully. I also think that, ultimately, because he has always described the Lifestyle in terms of loving, committed couples, my lack of participation would be difficult for him.

 

He is not pushing me to enter the Lifestyle. I am the one pushing me because I know it is an important part of his life, and I want to be part of his life. Those two factors alone would not be enough for me to take the plunge. I would never want to act in a way that is contrary to my being.

Hello dburton, welcome to the Swingers Board.

 

I've selected things you've said that stood out most to me. And because of these statements along with all you've shared I don't feel suggesting you give swinging a try would be appropriate; I don't think you're ready to jump into swinging at this point in your life.

 

Where you are at in your views, comfort level, etc., is most important to consider here. Your boyfriend is not relying on you to help him get back into swinging, and you should not "do it" in order to help him with his swinging or because you feel it will be the only way to keep your boyfriend.

 

I question whether he has the same desire as you do to develop a long-term committed relationship together. He may realize that you are becoming more attached to him than he is to you. He realized it was time to let you know the path he is going to take--to return to swinging as a single man. He may even have brought swinging up because he feels you will leave him and he wants this; he may feel better about you walking away from him than him walking away from you.

 

He probably knows you well enough to feel you are not ready to swing and may never be, at least not in the time frame he would wish for. It was good of him to tell you how important swinging is to him, it was the fair and open thing to do.

 

I don't know what you will decide to do. But I will say that if you split up it may not be the end. Sometimes during time apart two people can go through changes and experiences that draw them back together again and they discover they are better matched than before.

 

I have been impressed by you and your posts and I hope you will become an active member of the Board. Whether you decide to swing or not, you are always welcome here.

 

LM

[Hotwallabies 90]

So far you've gotten some great advice. My suggestion (which may have already been said) is that you not do anything out of fear. Earlier in our relationship my wife did some things for me not because she really wanted to but because she felt like she needed to in order to please me (i.e. fear). These were things she actually fantasized about but wasn't ready to try. For years part of her resented me for that, like I had forced her to do something which she really didn't want to do. (Which I never did, she forced herself trying to please me). She simply wasn't ready for those things, yet.

 

If you're doing this for fear of losing him, for fear of him finding someone else who's into swinging, or for fear of not being able to meet his sexual needs then I would be very cautious about entering the lifestyle. If you are doing this because you love him and want to at least see if this might be something that you actually like, then I would recommend that you go verrrry slowly. You mentioned how do you go "from zero to sixty" and in my opinion the answer is, "you don't." You have to start slowly and build up speed.

 

Get a book or two on swinging. I would recommend a book called "Swing" by Opal Carew. This is a fiction book about a girl introduced to the swing lifestyle. She isn't interested at first but by the end she is fully into it. Read this book and see if it stirs something in you. If you finish that book and still have no interest at all in the lifestyle except to please him then I would be very careful.

 

Since you mentioned that you don't really have any sexual fantasies, (as someone else mentioned earlier) I would say that you haven't even begun to explore your natural sexuality. You don't take a baby and throw them into the deep end and expect them to swim, they have to start in the shallow end getting used to the water. Do the same with yourself. Start exploring your own sexuality for yourself. Read some erotic romance novels, first. Then maybe read something like "Penthouse letters" or other erotic stories together. Talk about those stories together. See if you don't start to have some fantasies about some of the things you have read. If this goes well and you want to continue, you might try watching some porn or something together. Then ask yourself, "Does seeing people have sex bother me or excite me?" If it bothers you then stop. Give yourself time and see what happens. If it excites you then maybe go to an on-site club and just watch a couple times. How does that make you feel? If you like it then maybe try some soft swap. After each step talk to each other honestly about how you feel. Never push to the next step until YOU want to.

 

Do NOT just jump in the deep end. You will almost certainly regret it. Be very patient with yourself. Do not rush. Do not go zero to sixty. If you are patient you may very well find a part of yourself that has been missing. But don't ever do anything that you really don't want to.

 

This could all take many months or years.

Best of luck to you and your boyfriend.

[Babysteps 63]

To dburton, You have expressed yourself well.....you are in fact "me".....many of the same thoughts, fears etc., your curiosity has ( lucky for you ), brought you here.....a wealth of advice, take advantage of it!! To all of the members who took the time to share their thoughts and feelings.....GREAT advice......I commend you as always!

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

Picking quotes from various posts by you ...

 

also known as the voice in my head

 

Keep in mind that the voice in your head is often society's idea of how you're supposed to behave. While there's reason to put some weight in that, you shouldn't let it control your life. It's your life to live, not anyone else's. Living by someone else's rules is a pathway to sadness. Decide what's important to you, how you want to live, what you want out of life. Live it.

 

 

I won't know whether the Lifestyle is right for me unless I experience it. Your thoughts?

 

There's a very large amount of things you can think about with regards to swinging, and a zillion questions to ask. Most can be answered before ever experiencing swinging at any level. Some can not be answered without trying it. Continuing the swimming analogy; you can't know what it's like to swim until you're actually in the pool. No amount of reading, of watching film, of hearing instructors, etc. can answer all questions about swimming. Swinging is similar in this regard. But, you should be ready to swing; don't swing to find out if you're ready. For my wife and I, we decided to swing when we'd answered all questions we could think of that were answerable without swinging. The answers did not result in anything that precluded swinging, so we went ahead. It took a while to get there though, and a lot of conversation to do so.

 

His description of swingers as a "bunch of great people" is one of the Lifestyle's attraction to me.

 

He is correct. However, in any sufficiently large group there's going to be bad eggs. There's people you're not going to like in swinging...at all. Swinging represents the entire cross spectrum of society. Well, almost all of it.

 

I just don't know if I have the mental/ emotional fortitude to pursue it. (As I have already written a number of times in this forum, I'm scared.)

 

It's ok to be scared. Really, it is. All of us were where you are at some point in our pasts. We all went through this on our own way. For you, you're really thinking your way through it, and that's great! Being scared is your mind's way of defending yourself. You're in territory you never expected to be in your life. You don't have the tool set to manage it at this point. Parents don't take their kids aside as some point and give them the swinger's version of the birds and the bees.

 

It can take time to develop some framework on which to consider swinging. Some people take years. That's ok. Some jump right in. That's ok too. What matters is what you are comfortable with.

 

Understand; nobody here is going to be an evangelist with respect to swinging. Several people have already told you you're not ready. I agree, you're not ready. We'll give you the bare facts and opinions.

 

...(on separating love and sex)...

 

It's often stated that to be a successful swinger you have to separate love and sex. This is true, but only to a point. For my wife and I, we still view swinging as making love, just that the sex might be with someone else...the love making is still between us. I very, very much enjoy hearing my wife moan with pleasure, whether it's me that's causing it or another man. I like being involved with her when this is happening. We're still making love; the other man is an accessory to that.

 

...(on unilateral decisions in a non-committed relationship)...

 

I don't see that your boyfriend did anything wrong here. He was not committed to you, and as such him having sex with other people is perfectly acceptable. If he was committed to you, that's a different story entirely. But, that's not the case here. Further, I think it's great that he is being so forthright in his wants and desires. He's mature enough to recognize that there's certain things in his life that he wants to remain in his life regardless of who is he with. He's willing to not stay with someone if that someone is not willing to accept these things.

 

It sounds to me like he understands himself well. He's not being selfish in this. He's just being clear about what he wants. That's no different than a younger man saying "I want kids, and don't want to marry someone who doesn't want to have kids". We wouldn't fault someone for stating that. I can't fault this guy for saying "I want to swing. I don't want to marry someone who will not permit that". That's hardly selfish. It's just being clear. It's also not wasting your time further if swinging is not something you see yourself ever accepting.

 

Bravo on all counts.

 

I felt that I had no one to talk to besides him.

 

Yeah this can be hard. There's been many times I wanted to talk to friends about swinging, and couldn't. My wife and I now have a friend who we can talk with about swinging, but that was pure coincidence that we found out he's getting into swinging with his partner. Finding this forum was a tremendous find for my wife and I. Sooooo many questions were answered for us. Having this forum has been a tremendous support network for us, and that support doesn't mince words. We love the honesty.

 

Yes, I'm intrigued by swinging. The helpfulness and intelligence of people like you on this site has made me even more intrigued. I wouldn't pursue swinging as a single female. I really like the emphasis on couples with solid, committed relationships. ... It's going to be an interesting year ...

 

My wife wouldn't pursue swinging as a single female either. In fact, if you'd asked her just a year ago if swinging was a possibility for you, she would have first insisted on proof of snowballs in hell. Oddly, it was she who first broached the subject last year, and we've been progressing ever since.

 

My wife is willing to pursue swinging for a few reasons; (a) having sexual fun with other people is very rewarding and fun. (b) almost all couples report either improvement in their marriages (the vast majority) or neutral impact on their marriages..only a small number report negative impact. © she feels very safe with me, and trusts me without reservations...and vice versa.

 

 

 

Lastly, I wanted to chime in and voice agreement with what many have said. Do NOT go zero to sixty. You're not the type of person to do that, I suspect. Go at your pace. Also, I agree with others; your sexuality has been repressed for a LONG time. I think you will surprise yourself with just how much you find in yourself in exploring your sexuality.

 

Keep posting, keep asking. We're here.

[2inSanDiego4u 181]

Dear 2inSanDiego4u (and to anyone else who would like to respond):

 

...

 

Did you and your partner always believe that sex and love were separate?

 

To a certain degree, yes we did. We as a couple have thought about swinging for a very long time (10+ years). We've always been very open with each other about our sexuality and our fantasies. We finally committed to trying it about a year ago. We went in with the understanding that if either of us wanted it to stop at any time, that it would.

 

In your case it sounds like something you're at least a little bit intrigued about (you're here, right?) and might want to try out once some rules have been established. My advice to you is to go slow and don't do anything YOU don't want to do. Talk to your partner about absolutely EVERYTHING.

 

Be sure to check out the "Curious about Swinging" area. You'll find lots of useful info there for beginning swingers. Good luck!

[Swing*8701 887]

Susan here-- When I first began exploring sexually at 28 and single, I had only been in 'normal' monogamous dating relationships. Then I had casual sex with a friend and woke up the next morning and realized that nothing bad happened and it had been fun. This led to me having two different men over a weekend, both friends, and everything was great. This led to my first foursome with Michael, Tom and Kate and it was great. I have never looked back. So, yes, you can go from very conventional mindset to an unconventional one.

 

Being afraid is normal, but do not substitute fear for reason. You're simply having adult fun in an adult way and as long as you handle yourself in a mature, yet fun loving way, things go pretty well. At least they have for us.

 

And again, if you try it and you don't like it, so it goes. No crime, no foul. But, it has to be a choice that you want to try it, not something imposed on you. Make no mistake, I only did what I wanted to do. I also knew that if it wasn't for me, I simply stop. You are always empowered to what the next moment in your life is going to be.

[midnightplayer 135]

dburton; You sound so much like my wife of 38 years. I have asked her to join me in the enjoyment of the LS, but she at this point has refused. She cant seem to separate her upbringing that sex, love and marriage are all intermixed and to separate them is not possible in her head. I can separate them easily, maybe because I am a man and not a woman. I too can understand your dilemma and hope you find the right answers. I would suggest you go to a meet and greet and discover how great the people are and you can see for yourself hot to put your toe into the water and go at your own pace. Meet and Greets are mearly cocktail parties with ppl that love to act out their fantasies and enjoy sex, but they are very much in love with their partners and that will not change. Remember there is soft swing, soft swap, full swap, same room and different room. So many different degrees of swinging you might enjoy soft swing to start and never go beyond that. Keep exploring and discussing and see where it takes you. Good Luck

[athenagirl 36]

Dburton: many women do have trouble being able to easily separate love and sex: at least when they are actually in love with someone. (I know I tend to get a bad case of monogamy when I'm in love -- LOL!) However, what makes swinging intriguing to me, is that you don't have to separate sex and love. What I mean is, you're having sex with someone you love: your husband or boyfriend, and you're having sex with someone you're not emotionally bonded with. My concern is that you've apparently never fantasized about just sex, instead, you have the more typical female romantic fantasies. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just makes me wonder how sexually charged you are.

I think you'd be a better "candidate" for the lifestyle if you'd had some purely sexual adventures previously. That doesn't mean you couldn't enter and enjoy the lifestyle, just that it might not come as easily to you as someone else who'd experimented more in their youth. That said, best of luck!

athenagirl

[dburton 25]

Dear lizandtom,

 

Hi! It's been a very busy past few days and I have to get back to work shortly, but I wanted to respond to you while I had the time. Based on your comments as well as those of others, I talked to him yesterday about how we felt about each other and what I felt comfortable with regarding the lifestyle.

 

Your comments in the last two paragraphs were extremely helpful. Your advice was to ask him not to engage in any lifestyle activities during my "introductory" period. Because he misses his friends and this lifestyle, several weeks ago I requested that he only play with current friends with benefits (a request he has honored). After reading your comments repeatedly, I realize that I am okay with this arrangement if he goes to a club or party without me. However, this arrangement would be exceedingly difficult for me if I he went with me. I think he is okay with going at my pace when he is with me, but that is something else for us to discuss.

 

We have a number of clubs in the local area (one within a five miles of my home). I have read several discussion threads about the fear of meeting someone you know. The common response, "well they are there too," is a logical one, but fear isn't logical. Am I being overly cautious/concerned by wanting my first exposures to the lifestyle to be in another city (e.g., a two-hour drive)?

[Hotwallabies 90]

We drove six hours to go to our first club, but we also had some extenuating circumstances.

[luvnksstyle 15]

Dear luvnksstyle (and to anyone else who would like to respond):

 

(1) Yes, we have had sex.

 

i think all of these points .. point ... to one thing ... your personality, what you feel comfortable with and what you don't.. Obviously, you know how you feel , so , i'll try and give you some insight into how and why i make the choices i make..

 

(1) at what point , do i decide to have sex with someone?? pretty much immediately. it depends on my gut feeling , and what i see when i look in their eyes . being online is a lot harder , cuz people can pretend to be what ever you're looking for. i'm not sure if your age is listed , but at my age , i always presume that the guy i've just met, and is makin me wonder what it would be like to have sex with him, has other relationships , others who are close and dear to his heart. i never presume that i am the first , nor the last person that feels this way in his presence. my next decision has to do with regret. if i never am able to see this person again , will i regret giving myself to him sexually?? will i regret the fact that he prefers to be with whomever he's been with before me?? and so i decide , yes, being with this man , if only once , will be worth it ... will somehow enhance my life , and brighten my outlook.

 

 

 

(4) I am the one pushing me because I know it is an important part of his life, and I want to be part of his life. Those two factors alone would not be enough for me to take the plunge. I would never want to act in a way that is contrary to my being. Given everything that I have read, it seems like the Lifestyle has many benefits. I just don't know if I have the mental/ emotional fortitude to pursue it. (As I have already written a number of times in this forum, I'm scared.)

 

(5) What do you mean by "if ya start doubting or feeling left out, the LS will just make ya feel worse"? Could you explain your comment further?

IF you're the type of person that is always in need of reassurance that you are lovable , or feeling that "your" guy is giving "the other woman" more attention than you, the LS will only magnify , if not intensify those thoughts and feelings.

 

 

(6) In terms of swimming, I have never learned to dive. (I guess it wouldn't surprise you that diving off a diving board scares me.) I have either canonballed or slowly lowered myself in a pool. Do you think that says a lot about how I will approach the Lifestyle (LOL)?

 

(6) i'm not a swimmer, but in every aspect of my life , i , too, also answer that voice in my head. like when i lost my virginity. i remember thinking ... "am i really ready to wait for a lifetime commitment ( not to mention the doubts i had about anything lasting a lifetime ) to experience sexual passion and physical desire" .... i gave my virginity at the age of 17, to a 17 yo guy, that i had never seen before , and haven't seen since. my only connection to him was his older brother.

 

sorry, i get so wordy , but once i get on a train of thought , i just go with it ..

[iapr 24]

I wish I would have came across this thread sooner and been able to join in earlier but I guess better late than never.

 

First off dburton I do want to say that you express yourself and communicate well and you seem to be a very intelligent and self aware woman and all of those traits will come in very handy as well as will be tested to the limits in the upcoming days and weeks.

 

I am not going to try and talk you into swinging or into not swinging but I am going to try and get you to explore your own feelings, beliefs and values in a manner that you may not have been previously accustomed.

 

You have stated a couple times of having fear of the lifestyle. What is it exactly that you fear? Are you typically afraid of the unknown or do you react to new situations and new concepts with fear? Or do you have some specific things for which you are afraid?

 

Perhaps if you could share with us what some of these fears are there may be some things we are able to address in a more specific manner.

[iapr 24]

I'll start another post as I want to address some other issues. Here are just a few bullet points of information to consider. Give these some thought. Again they are not "answers" nor are they any form of persuasion either for or against swinging per se, just some random thoughts and information.

 

- As you have seen first hand on this thread, swingers are not sex maniacs or immoral people and many in fact can show great compassion, concern and respect.

 

- Swinging does not have to be about "sex with other people." Swinging can just be another facet of a couples sex life. From the beginning our own journey mrs iapr and I have always maintained that when we have an encounter we are making love to each other and it is a shared experience between us as a couple. There may be others involved but the others are just providing extra stimulation and excitement for us as a couple.

 

I think in many ways other people experience this as well. A lifestyle club or party or any kind of get together and it can create a lot of sexual energy and many couples gather and feed off of that energy and that energy is returned into the sexual dynamics of their relationship whether they have any sexual contact with other people or not.

 

- If you are in your 50s you are at a place where sexuality can take on a whole new meaning. You are no longer looking at raising a family from scratch. you may or may not have reached menopause so pregnancy isn't the same issue as before. You are more self aware than you were in your youth and you are more knowledgable about men and women and people in general and people aren't going to be able to bullshit you as easily. You are probably independantly financially secure. You may still have the same need to be loved and touched and appreciated as any other time in your life but you are better able to pick and choose who it is that you share your heart and your sexuality with.

 

Add all those up and you are in a position in life where you can afford to view sexuality in a little more recreational and open nature.

 

The downside is you are at a point now where you are realizing a whole new sexual paradigm and it has you uncertain of how you should be reacting or what you should be doing. That will be unsettling for anyone.

 

- You are under no timeline. There is no rush. There are no deadlines. We are all still learning. We are all still exploring. You can learn and explore with us.

 

You don't have to jump in and start screwing the whole world. Ask questions here. Talk with your BF. Go to some clubs and meet real flesh and blood people and talk to them. They aren't going to rape you, hustle you or bullshit you. Go out and have fun. Dance and flirt and party. You don't have to have sex with anyone, just enjoy the environment. Learn as you go along the way. There is no point of no return. If it doesn't work for you so be it, no harm done.

 

- You probably have a lot of misconceptions and preconceptions now. Open your mind and get out and learn what is the reality. Go to some clubs. Go to some partys. You may not like it. It may not be for you. That's ok, no harm done. just walk away.

 

However you may discover it does work for you. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. The bottom line is you are a full grown woman in charge of your own sexuality. At the end of the day it is all your own choice.

 

- You have shown us you are no dummy and you are not a ditz. You express yourself well and you communicate well. those are valuable characteristics in the lifestyle. As you meet people you will see if they are decent people or if they are assholes (yes there are plenty of those too) and will both sets of people you will be able to make yourself heard and understood.

 

Whatever you do, stay in touch with us. I definately wish to hear more about you and more about your journey and where it goes and I am sure some of the other posters that have participated in this thread agree. I'll stop here for now cause my fingers are tired but I do wish to hear more.

[ViSexual 1,008]

Hi again,

 

You asked what it was about swinging that makes me still miss it after so many years?

 

Well, it's the exhilleration of not having to put on a front with people. It's being able to be totally honest about how I'm feeling and what I'm feeling. It's being able to flirt with someone I find appealing without feeling I'm being unfaithful to my chosen life's partner.

 

Dburton, have you ever known a man who you knew was unavailable to you that you found very attractive? Did you enjoy seeing him and being close to him when you were together? Have you ever danced with someone like that? Did you enjoy feeling him close to you? And, was there anything wrong with that enjoyment?

 

Well, swinging takes that to another level but the results are the same. You can enjoy those moments without drama, guilt, or loss of any self esteem.

 

You also said;

 

"We have a number of clubs in the local area (one within a five miles of my home). I have read several discussion threads about the fear of meeting someone you know. The common response, "well they are there too," is a logical one, but fear isn't logical. Am I being overly cautious/concerned by wanting my first exposures to the lifestyle to be in another city "

 

When you said "fear isn't logical" I almost laughed. That sounds exactly like something my wife would say. She always said that her lawyers were on alert! LOL! I do hope you, unlike my wife, can overcome these apprehensions and find enjoyment and contentment exploring some aspects of swinging and become your boyfriends' best friend and life's partner.

[dburton 25]

Dear iapr (and to anyone else who would like to respond):

 

I have struggled with identifying what I fear. The one which I have already mentioned is the fear of being "found out." I worry about being judged harshly by those in the vanilla world and being ruined professionally and rejected personally. Over the past few days, I also realize that I am worried that I might be harassed or pressured by someone I already know who I run into at a club or party.

 

You identified another challenge and more aptly associated it with the feeling of being very unsettled (versus fearful) when you stated, "The downside is you are at a point now where you are realizing a whole new sexual paradigm and it has you uncertain of how you should be reacting or what you should be doing."

 

The one other "fear" I have identified to date relates to how I communicate with my friends and family. My life has been, for the most part, an open book. If I enter the lifestyle, that will no longer be the case. In my profession, I am used to keeping other people's confidences. I am not used to having to keep my own life secrets, and that would be a significant departure from how I live my life currently.

 

I would appreciate your thoughts and/or reassurances on any of the three areas that I have touched upon in this posting.

[dburton 25]

Dear Chicup,

 

First, thank you for the compliment that I seem perfect to join your ranks.

 

Second, a number of people in this forum have told me not to enter the lifestyle for the man I am dating. I totally concur with this advice. If I just did it for him and it ran counter to who I am, then I would lose something far more valuable than a relationship. I would be losing my essence/ soul/ spirit (which would result in my becoming a shell of a person and, in the end, undoubtedly would kill the relationship anyway).

[dburton 25]

Dear ViSexual,

 

Your comment about being attracted to someone who is unavailable to me gives me food for thought. THANKS!

[dburton 25]

Dear Hotwallabies,

 

Thank you for the advice. Also, I loved your 0 to 60 smiley. It emphasized your point in a way that put a smile on my face (perhaps that is the reason that they really are called smileys).

[dburton 25]

Dear LikeMinds321,

 

A number of your comments don't resonate with me. However, I have learned over the years to never immediately accept or reject someone else's views. You provide a different perspective than many of the other people who have posted to this discussion board. I appreciate the time you have taken to write me and express your views. I will ponder your words over the next few weeks. It may be that you don't have all the details (and therefore understanding) of the situation that I have, or it may be that you have insights I don't have because I am too emotionally invested in the situation.

[dburton 25]

Dear luvnksstyle,

 

You weren't being too wordy. I appreciate your clarifications.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

dburton,

 

I/we have just been listening so far. From the get go, I have liked your way of thinking. We do find out so much about ourselves as well as others, as we inquire into the lifestyle. That is one thing that I can say, never changes.......

 

I can only think your boyfriend, wanted you to know who he truly is, and why....

I think you have taken the right step that I see so many fail at. You are understanding your feelings about allot of ideas we share as true swingers.

 

Even if your choice is to never participate, hopefully you can understand true lifestyle people, are generally worthy of friendship.

 

Welcome to the Swingers Board

[Guest screaminggood]

Dear dburton,

 

In my opinion, if you're going to do this, go to the club that is farther away....It will make you feel more comfortable about the situation. I'd even suggest you take it a bit further: if you decide to go to a club, I'd suggest you go to a club where the bf has never been, too. That way, he's less likely to run into people he knows and he can focus exclusively on you and what you're watching happen around you. If he's been to all the clubs in your area, can y'all take a 3-day weekend and go somewhere else?

 

If you're going to look at the lifestyle...make it a fun adventure for both of you....and make sure that you do it your way. My guess is that bf will be so thrilled that you're considering it, that he should be fine with your requests.

[bunnyrabbit4u 24]

Dear dBurton,

I just wanted to add an opinion from someone who has had trouble separating sex and love. My boyfriend and I are on an incredible sexual journey together. We are very much in love and know that if we do anything out of the ordinary, we will be doing it together as an expression of our joint sexuality. We have not done any swinging, and may not ever do so, but are definitely pushing our boundaries. I am in my late 40s and he in his 50s.

 

To give you some background, I was raised in a religious family with lots of rules, and a "stay in the box" kind of mentality. Rabbit has experienced some threesomes in the past, but I have always been a serial monogamist.

 

One of the things we have started doing is taking baby steps. This summer for example, we went to a nude beach. Even that for me caused some fear and insecurity. Would everyone look like Ken and Barbie? Of course, they did not. The world is full of all sorts of shapes and sizes. We had a great time there and I cannot wait to be naked in public again.

 

The second thing we did was to go to an adult club. All we did there is talk with people, watch what was happening and have sex together, just the two of us in close proximity to other people having sex as well.

 

The third thing I wanted to do was to go to a strip club and have a couples lap dance, which we just did within the last week. My main purpose for that visit was to see how I would feel seeing another woman being sexual with the man I love. The funny thing was I did not have one millisecond of jealousy or insecurity when we were having the lap dance. It was incredibly erotic to watch his face and see his arousal while see was performing for him. He said he felt the same way when she was concentrating on me. I did have some moments of jealousy when he focused his attention on a specific dancer whom he found sexy and attractive. Looking back on it, it seems like the jealousy crops up when I am feeling left out or threatened in some way. Talking about things as they happen and as the feelings come up is the key for me.

 

This Spring we have plans to go to Desire -- a couples only resort for almost a week. No plans to swing, but to keep an open mind to the possibilities, to have lots of great sex, have no other expectations and to keep communicating. We have agreed on some signals together that will help us communicate how we are both feeling at different times during this trip.

 

I'm not saying you have to do things the way we are doing them, but you need to be able to go at your own pace, be able to say "no" without feeling guilty, and never change who you are for another person. By pushing your boundaries gradually you will be able to see what works for you and what does not.

[ncmd_couple 597]

I have struggled with identifying what I fear. The one which I have already mentioned is the fear of being "found out." I worry about being judged harshly by those in the vanilla world and being ruined professionally and rejected personally. Over the past few days, I also realize that I am worried that I might be harassed or pressured by someone I already know who I run into at a club or party.

 

Dburton,

 

This for me was also a great fear. For reasons I won't go into here, I was afraid that if my swinging activities were found out, then I would be ruined professionally forever. My employment options would be reduced to maybe working for Wal-Mart. I also feared the blackmail aspect of running into a co-worker, or being pressured by them.

 

Ok, swinging clubs and parties are "closed" events. It isn't like a bar on the corner that just anyone can or could walk into. They have to put out some effort. This means there are no pictures of you being there, there is no evidence of you being there, only the other person's word. And quite frankly, they would be damaging their careers just as much as they would be damaging yours. This reduces the risk of being outed to nil in my book. And unless you have an ethics clause in your terms of employment which restricts your personal life, what are they gonna do?

 

Then there is the blackmail or pressure aspect. Well, if they try that then they can kiss their swinging goodbye! The word gets around real quick and they will very quickly find themselves isolated and then clubs will stop accepting their reservations.

 

But the reality is, I have no fear of swingers. Personally we have not met anyone that I would think for a second would out us for any reason. This goes for singles as well as couples. Yeah, you will run into all kinds of people in the swinging community just like in real life. But the real difference is that you are in charge! You get to make the decisions, and no means no, and anyone who violates that will find their butt sitting on the curb so fast that they won't know what happened.

 

Fear isn't rational, but you can asses dangers in a rational way, then decide on what you consider to be an acceptable risk. Then take the steps you feel are necessary to minimize those risks.

 

S

[dburton 25]

Dear ncmd_couple (and anyone else who would like to respond),

 

Thank you for laying one fear to rest. I have read a number of posts on outing, but yours really hit the point home.

 

One of the most interesting things about being a newbie is that it is getting me to look much more closely at my assumptions, beliefs, and fears about relationships and about sexuality.

 

I know a number of people have mentioned jealousy, but I am not jealous by nature. (e.g., I had no problems when my previous boyfriend socialized with his ex-girlfriends while he was dating me -- including his spending weekends away with them.) My concern is that I will have a difficult time just being sexual/enjoying recreational sex, that I am not attractive enough, that I am not (as the old saying goes) "good enough in bed", etc. and that, ultimately, I will be a disappointment not only to the man I am playing with but to the man I am currently dating.

 

I am hoping that I can "manage" my feeling/ thoughts in a similar way to how I "manage" my stage fright. Even though I have given hundreds of presentations, each time I give one my heart beats rapidly, I feel lightheaded, and I wonder what possessed me to pick my profession. Once I begin speaking, I relax, and I eventually feel energized. .... If you have any ideas of how I can lessen my fears regarding sexual inadequacy besides "feel the fear and do it anyway" I would love to hear them.

[ncmd_couple 597]

I am hoping that I can "manage" my feeling/ thoughts in a similar way to how I "manage" my stage fright. Even though I have given hundreds of presentations, each time I give one my heart beats rapidly, I feel lightheaded, and I wonder what possessed me to pick my profession. Once I begin speaking, I relax, and I eventually feel energized. .... If you have any ideas of how I can lessen my fears regarding sexual inadequacy besides "feel the fear and do it anyway" I would love to hear them.

 

dburton,

 

Funny that you mention this. Because that is exactly the way it is when you go to a swinger's club. There is all the preperation, the clothes, the makup, what to wear come witching hour, all of those things. Driving up to security and giving your first names. Then actually walking in to the receptionist and registering. Then being the newbie walking into the club for your first time and you feel like a spot light just came on and shines on you and everyone turns to look. But, they didn't really.

 

Then you know what? It didn't take us 30 minutes to shed all of that and realize that we had just entered the sexiest environment that we had ever been in. That we were meeting the nicest people. Then within two hours we wrapped towels around us as we got out of the hot tub and sat at the bar in only a towel visiting with the other nice people there.

 

So what you are feeling, we all feel the same thing! But after the first couple of times, you look forward to the anticipation, the rush, then you are on a different plane after that point. Something you will never find in a vanilla environment.

 

S

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

ncmd hit it right on the head. I'd just like to add that being worked up about your own beauty and performance in bed is really counter productive. I mean, it's a good idea to look your best, but beyond that don't fret about it. What matters is what other people think, not what you think.

 

And guess what? Guaranteed, there will be people who are not attracted to you. Guaranteed, there will be people attracted to you. Same goes for your manner in bed. You can no more change that than you can change the color of the sky. Just be yourself. Let the rest come to you.

[ViSexual 1,008]

You wrote;

 

"Even though I have given hundreds of presentations, each time I give one my heart beats rapidly, I feel lightheaded, and I wonder what possessed me to pick my profession. Once I begin speaking, I relax, and I eventually feel energized"

 

Now isn't having sex with someone for the first time, in any situation, a lot like that?

 

I think that you'll do just fine. And, Sweetie, you have such a great attitude and open mind to all of this that you'll make any lucky partner feel lucky to have you, I'm sure!