The Soap Box: Taking Baby Steps

[Chicup 41]

It is time for Chicup's Soap Box.

 

One theme I've noticed lately is a lot of people talking about taking 'baby steps' in swinging. Just take baby steps, go as slow as you want, always be comfortable in what you are doing.

 

This all sounds good on paper. I also think it is perhaps bad advice.

 

The reason is how such a thing would be interpreted. You obviously want to go at the slowest person's pace, you don't want to have people freaking out because they are so out of their element they explode in a drama bomb. But really most of this should be beyond you before you even contact your first couple. You should be in a spot where, everything being ideal, you would WANT to do some sort of swinger activity, full, soft, whatever.

 

Now of course things are scary, a new couple would be stupid to NOT wonder what sort of people go to clubs, or not worry about jealousy or the like, but I can't agree with the try a little, try a little more, try a little more back up, try again, method of baby steps.

 

I liken it to walking very very slowly into cold water and never getting to swim.

 

No matter how many baby steps you take, nothing will prepare you for seeing the first time your spouse is with someone else. Odds are there will be some jealousy (and if not, good for you), there will be some insecurity, and there will be some doubt. You might agonize over it, you might to mental arithmetic (well he did my wife but I did his, so we are even), it even might really bug you, but this an adult decision being made by adults. Sometimes I wonder if swinging turns everyone mentally into a 14 year old. You know what sex is, you know what it entails, there is no mystery here.

 

My advice to new couples is discuss at LENGTH before you even place an ad. Be 100% sure it is something you want to do even if you are not sure if it is a good idea. If you are not sure if you want to even do it, go back to the discussion stage until you know.

 

Decide what you want to do generally, but only generally. Do not have a giant rule list of 'you may touch her above the waist but only through her shirt', 'you may touch him anywhere, but only through his shorts'. There will do nothing but stifle your development, annoy other people, and create reasons for unnecessary drama. Either you are ready for some extra sexual activities or you are not.

 

Then just do it. You will never be 100% comfortable the first time you do something like this, it just doesn't work that way for most people. You are taking a risk with swinging, only you will know if it is going to work but if you don't' know ahead of time, you don't know each other well enough. You shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

 

And please, for the love of all that's holy, DO IT TOGETHER.

 

None of this 'she's not comfortable with me there' crap. None of this, 'we (as in one of them) feel it would be easier to find people on our own'. Doing that is playing with fire, it makes the bunny hit its head, it is just BAD. Now yes, playing alone works for a lot of people but only after they are 100% comfortable with the whole concept. Rarely, and I mean RARELY, there are couples who are not into the hot wife fetish who this works for from day one, but do you want to really see if you are that 1 in 1000 of swingers?

 

This concludes today's soap box rant.

[NCfuncouple98 367]

I agree each couple will have their own pace. BUT, you're right. If a couple discusses at length what they are considering, what they want, what they don't want, and they think they're ok with, then at some point you do just have to jump in with both feet. And then deal with any jealousies, doubts or insecurities. But really, if there's major concerns with jealousy issues, then maybe you need to spend more time talking about it. This is not running down to the local parlor for an ice cream cone - it is a BIG DEAL! But all the baby stepping should be done at home through conversation.

 

We wouldn't have ever walked into a club without all of these discussions up front, and we knew it was something we wanted to do. We are comfortable enough with each other and our love to step forward and use it as an enhancement to our sex lives.

 

If a couple only wants to try soft swap or a threesome at first, so what? That's not really a baby step - it's jumping into swinging. Some people never go for the full swap - some people stick to threesomes. It's their preference. Nothing wrong with it.

 

Good post, Chicup.

[good times 991]

Good points, I agree, in fact this is pretty much how we got into swinging. It took us about a year of discussion, but at some point we just had to dive in and see how we liked it. I think if we had taken the "baby step" approach, we never would have become swingers. I actually think the "baby step" approach will usually only result in endless drama. Either you're ready, or you're not.

[Hotwallabies 90]

I totally understand what you're saying Chicup but for us it was different. We started introducing ourselves to things about the lifestyle. WE started sharing our fantasies. Then we started reading sexual books together. Then we went to a strip club together. Then made a profile on this site and Swing Lifestyle. Then we read some books specifically about swinging. Next we went to a nudist resort, which we loved. After that we went to a club and soft swung to see how we would feel. Finally at a house party we decided to (after about three years of growing and changing) to "jump in" and had sex with two other couples.

 

We were so totally sexually repressed that to just "jump in" would have thrown us in to some deep problems and almost certainly have caused the end of our relationship. I liken it to a couch potato who has never exercised just deciding to run a marathon, it's probably not going to turn out well. As one of the people whom has given the "take it slowly" advice when I do that it is because to me the people sound somewhat like sexual "couch potatoes" so to speak. People who haven't really exercised their sexuality probably shouldn't just "go for it" and start swinging. That just seems dangerous to me. But, that's just me and you seem to disagree, which is fine.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I have to agree with you there. Personally, when I say baby steps (if I say it), I mean simply taking it one step at a time. You don't have to go to a club the first time intending to full swap. Sometimes just going to a club is such a huge step in itself that it scares people away from swinging... so just go with the idea of having fun and see what happens.

[Guest warrencouple]

Being one of the "baby steppers" here, I got thinking about this tonight. I'm not entirely sure the baby steps analogy works. After all, if you're even considering swinging, you already know how to walk (I'd hope so!) Perhaps a better one might be learning to swim.

 

Some people start off learning in the "kiddy pool," while others head for the high dive and jump in head first. Some people get in the kiddy pool the first time, realize they don't like the water, and get out. Some, enjoy it, but never get confident enough to head for the deep end of the pool.

 

The wife and I right now are the kids who aren't entirely sure we're going to like swimming, or even be able to get in the pool. What helps, is having people, even if we never meet them face to face, who are understanding, after all, they've had to learn to swim themselves, and know what it can be like, and are supportive of, and helpful to, the new swimmers. (Which by the way, so far describes everyone on this board!)

 

Really, the first step should *always* be discuss it as a couple, but if you try to go too far for one to be comfortable, you'll never go. Witness my topic, "Dr Dumb, or How I learned to open mouth and insert foot to the knee" If I had pushed there, then quite likely, we would have been off the board, I would have been in the doghouse for sometime, and we'd not be going to a Meet & Greet this Friday. All because I would have pushed the Mrs outside her comfort zone too far, too fast. The Mrs and I have discussed going to Hedonism III for a vacation one year. We also talked Hedo II, but there was one thing that she felt uncomfortable with. The fact that you have only two choices at Hedo II: Nude / Prude. She's willing to do Hedo III because she can stay within her comfort level, and if she wants, go further (Nude / Clothing optional / prude) Swinging for a couple should be the same thing. Yes, you should push your boundaries. For some people, simply stepping foot into a club is pushing their boundaries (us!), while others, their boundaries are so far out, they'd only be able to push them with a week long, non-stop, multi-state, multi-club orgy.

 

One last bit. I notice that at *NO* point did Chicup slam newbies for possibly taking it slow, only that they should be willing to try to push their boundaries. Or, at least that's how I read it.

 

Mr.

PS Boy, I hope this is as coherent as I think it is right now!

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Chicup said:

One theme I've noticed lately is a lot of people talking about taking 'baby steps' in swinging. Just take baby steps, go as slow as you want, always be comfortable in what you are doing.

 

This all sounds good on paper. I also think its perhaps bad advice.

 

You should be in a spot where, everything being ideal, you would WANT to do some sort of swinger activity, full, soft, whatever.

 

Either you are ready for some extra sexual activities or you are not.

I have been thinking the same thing, more so now than ever before due to a number of threads popping up in the forum.

 

People want to be supportive and positive when new members post about their interest in giving swinging a try, but I think it's imperative to look at how unified the couple is in pursuing swinging before encouraging them.

 

All too often it's clear that only half of the couple is ready to swing; their partner is no where near ready to accept the idea and because of this I feel it is wiser for them to not "dip their toes" into swinging until they are both ready. This can take months or even years.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I have been thinking the same thing, more so now than ever before due to a number of threads popping up in the forum.

 

People want to be supportive and positive when new members post about their interest in giving swinging a try, but I think it's imperative to look at how unified the couple is in pursuing swinging before encouraging them.

 

All too often it's clear that only half of the couple is ready to swing; their partner is no where near ready to accept the idea and because of this I feel it is wiser for them to not "dip their toes" into swinging until they are both ready. This can take months or even years.

 

Amen to that! Too often I see people not even really considering what the user has written about the relationship and just giving them advice to jump in (or dip in, or stick a toe in) when what they should be doing is working on their own relationship and learning how to communicate better.

[Chicup 41]

I have been thinking the same thing, more so now than ever before due to a number of threads popping up in the forum.

 

People want to be supportive and positive when new members post about their interest in giving swinging a try, but I think it's imperative to look at how unified the couple is in pursuing swinging before encouraging them.

 

I've been guilty of that myself recently, but I think somewhat justified under the circumstance. I am less worried when its a BF/GF situation with mature adults then say a 20 something couple married two years.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I've been guilty of that myself recently, but I think somewhat justified under the circumstance. I am less worried when its a BF/GF situation with mature adults then say a 20 something couple married two years.

 

Something to think about.... isn't communication and an established relationship just as important regardless of age (or whether it's a married couple or dating)?

[Chicup 41]

Something to think about.... isn't communication and an established relationship just as important regardless of age (or whether it's a married couple or dating)?

 

When there is less invested in the relationship, and the couple should be more experienced with life, I worry less about drama bombs and the core relationship. When we started swinging at around 30 we were the 'kids' most swingers were older, and even in our late 30's we are still on the young side. Swinging just seems easier for older couples to handle.

 

The thread in question was the one with a 50 year old girlfriend and the swinger boyfriend. I don't know if their relationship is strong enough or will last but SHE seems to be of the right mindset to try swinging. Maybe they won't work out, maybe they will, but I would feel far less inclined to say 'try it and see if you like it' were she 20 and this her first serious relationship.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Good point. Life experience does make a difference.

[Pensacolapair 394]

..Some people start off learning in the "kiddy pool," while others head for the high dive and jump in head first. Some people get in the kiddy pool the first time, realize they don't like the water, and get out. Some, enjoy it, but never get confident enough to head for the deep end of the pool....

That's pretty much the first thing that came to my mind!

 

I wholeheartedly agree with:

• They should together decide that exploring the lifestyle is something they both want to do. If it's not something they are of like-mind on as a general concept, they are already pissing into the wind
   
  
• They should be upfront and honest with others who may approach them that they are currently only comfortable in the 'kiddy pool' - and allow others who may be deep sea divers to head back to deeper water.
  

But...I really, truly, no matter how hard I try can't understand the need to put a time limit on getting from point A to whatever others think their point B should be. What ever happened to 'different strokes for different folks'?

[Guest warrencouple]

Chicup said:

I've been guilty of that myself recently, but I think somewhat justified under the circumstance. I am less worried when its a BF/GF situation with mature adults then say a 20 something couple married two years.

 

Browsing off and on on SLS, and seeing a goodly number of sub 25 year old couples looking to full swap, I often find myself wondering, are they serious? They're barely (well, from my rarified 38 years of age at least) out of high school, probably (and often state) they've just gotten married, and they're looking at swinging?

 

Heck, the wife and I have been married just over 10 years, and were together for a good 3-4 years before that, and we're still not sure that we're up to this as a couple.

 

I guess I agree with both Chicup and Julie. If you've been married only a couple years, or less, and are that young, I'd think swinging would be a bad idea. The relationship hasn't had time to strengthen, you're still learning about each other. Enjoy that, before trying to bring other couples / singles into it.

 

Mr.

(Now turning off crotchety old man mode)

[iapr 24]

I agree with much of the specific points you make but I'm not so about the general thesis.

 

I guess what I advocate isn't so much "Steps" per se or timelines but rather that people do what comes natural to them and at a pace that is natural and comfortable for them. For some people that will occur in small incremental advances and for others it may be much faster.

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is the amount of attraction and comfort felt between the other people involved. For us it took about six months between the time we decided to leave the house and meet real people in the flesh and when we actually found a couple we wanted to play with. It wasn't because we were intentionally taking baby steps, it was because it took that long to find someone we wanted to take any kind of steps with.

 

Attraction plays such a large part of what we do and how far things go. It's not like someone can sit down and mark out a timeline and say this Sat we are going to dirty dance and flirt. Next Sat we are going to make out and fondle. The following week we are going to do some oral and so on and so on.

 

I agree that a couple should be at a point where they have discussed things enough that they are prepared to explore together but attraction is such a fickle and elusive thing that it could take a long time before they are even in the mood for things to become physical even if they have the inclination to do it.

[Chicup 41]

I agree with much of the specific points you make but I'm not so about the general thesis.

 

I guess what I advocate isn't so much "Steps" per se or timelines but rather that people do what comes natural to them and at a pace that is natural and comfortable for them. For some people that will occur in small incremental advances and for others it may be much faster.

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is the amount of attraction and comfort felt between the other people involved. For us it took about six months between the time we decided to leave the house and meet real people in the flesh and when we actually found a couple we wanted to play with. It wasn't because we were intentionally taking baby steps, it was because it took that long to find someone we wanted to take any kind of steps with.

 

Attraction plays such a large part of what we do and how far things go. It's not like someone can sit down and mark out a timeline and say this Sat we are going to dirty dance and flirt. Next Sat we are going to make out and fondle. The following week we are going to do some oral and so on and so on.

 

I'm not advocating forcing yourself to do something you don't want to do, or more specifically like you are saying, someone they don't want to do.

 

In another post I made a ways back I warned people to not fall into the trap of being so desperate that they proceed with the first real couple they come into contact with, even if they are not happy with them.

 

Its when you do find that compatible couple that you should be less afraid to move into the swinger realm. Otherwise I think you rarely get there.

[Hotwallabies 90]

I'm not advocating forcing yourself to do something you don't want to do, or more specifically like you are saying, someone they don't want to do.

 

Its when you do find that compatible couple that you should be less afraid to move into the swinger realm. Otherwise I think you rarely get there.

 

Now that I completely agree with.

[Guest ic7175]

We took the baby steps approach and the other couple was doing the same. It took us nearly a decade to get to soft swing and we've leveled off there. Maybe it will go further someday, but for now everyone is happy as is :-).

 

The benefit of going in small steps was that at any point if someone had become uncomfortable we would have had a small issue to deal with. If we had jumped in feet first we could have had a bigger problem to deal with. While it's possible we were ready all along, that wasn't a risk we were willing to take. There were several times along the way that we had some long conversations that almost certainly helped us get on the same page so as to avoid issues when we took the next step.

 

Then again this is basically a friends with benefits situation and not a meeting at a club, house party, or meeting through ads. I can understand that if we were to go to a club, we don't want to gradually ramp up the activities over dozens of meetings.

[Powerglide 235]

Well said, Chicup. I guess we dove right into deep end. Our first was basically a threesome at a club. Frankly, I don't think that there's any babysteps that leads up to seeing and hearing your honey cumming while being well fucked by some guy you just met two minutes ago. I am proud to say that I reacted like a perfect gentlemen and thoughtfully offered to satisfy her oral cravings. But every couple is different and we may be at the narrow end of the bell curve. Another consideration may be that we are a somewhat older couple -- were in our late 50s at the time, and our philosophy was that we didn't want to be sitting in the nursing home regretting we'd never tried it.