I say WHY RUSH?...But she wants to.

[Speed & Trixie 163]

Ok awesome friends of the Swingers Board -- Speed and I need your help (it was only a matter of time LOL)! The girl who was our "first third" about a year ago is back in our lives, and we're thrilled about that . She's a fantastic girl (let's call her "Katy") and Speed and I absolutely adore her. To make a SUPER LONG story short, she has matured a lot (we were her first threesome too, and she didn't know she was bisexual until she met me ) and wants to see if the three of us can make this work this time around.

 

Katy has had this boyfriend -- they started dating essentially as we started hooking up the first time, and he doesn't know about us (argh! WHY didn't we find you guys on SB last year LOL). They've been on the rocks for awhile apparently (according to her -- I have never met him, Speed may have once). When we first started talking again, Speed and I were prepared to just be friends with Katy. Like I said, she's a totally awesome person and we both enjoy her company immensely.

 

The bf was out of town til Sunday. Tuesday night the three of us were going to have our first F2F sit-down talk about our friendship (and deal with the fact we're all still attracted to each other). She ended up seein him Sunday night, I think Mon night, and Tues day broke up with him! She still wanted to talk to us that night. We had a good talk, and after many hours of talking ended up all making out for aWHILE (all clothes stayed on). It actually felt more comfortable and more right than ever before, and we were all VERY happy.

 

We want to pursue things with Katy at a very slow pace. I now, two days later, think making out was probably a mistake so soon. Speed and Katy disagree with me. Katy has not broken off contact with the Ex, and does not want to tell him about us. They have decided to "take a break" and "see how things go." To me, this means she's not really broken up with him yet, and that nothing physical should happen until she's sure she's over him/doesn't want him back. I am Katy's friend, and if she wants to give this guy another chance I wish her well, truly. Here's the problem: she doesn't see the problem with continuing physically with us, and refuses to consider telling him anything. (Where's that red flag smiley....?)

 

To me this is a horrible idea. What if we're hooking up for a few months (or weeks), then she gets back together with him? He's controling and doesn't want us 3 to be friends, so then what - downgraded to secret friends? Or she regrets being with us altogether. I just feel like, WHY RUSH? We went thru a lot of heartache the first time, all 3 of us, so why not take a step back and keep working on the friendship? Especially considering Katy's emotional state. I know she wants this to happen, but I also know she still loves this guy.

 

Please, how can I make her understand where I'm coming from? She insists there won't be any problems... What do we say to her? Whenever I bring it up, I seem to upset her and it makes me so sad! Any advice is welcome. Thanks, Trixie

[PB&J 1,086]

You have to say no. This has got red flags all over the place. Even if Katy can't see your point of view on this, Speed, as your husband, needs to respect your feelings in all of this. That's a basic rule of swinging- if one spouse says no, it's no.

 

If Katy is in that much of an unstable state right now, she needs friends, not playmates, until she can calm down and decide on what she really needs.

 

Stand your ground. You know what you're doing.

[The Fuse 1,012]

It's quite possible that Katy, Speed or both just want the physical part to happen so badly that it is clouding their judgment.

 

Please be careful. The first thing is to get Speed on the same page as you. Hopefully this will not require any (or more than a minute of) convincing. If it does, I would worry. If his loyalty is divided, it could be a much worse situation.

 

The next thing is to tell Katy, both of you, that nothing can progress further until some time has passed and her relationship with her boyfriend is really over. You know why.

 

Good luck!

[iapr 24]

You are thinking like a girl, not like a swinger. You are acting like this Katy person is a potential girlfriend that you are wanting to date and you are afraid she is going to get back with her ex.

 

Are you wanting this to be some kind of poly relationship or some kind of pleural wife type arraingement? If you are wanting this to be some kind of ongoing three-way relationship thing you are going to have a lot more issues to contend with than if she is truly breaking up with some dude or not.

 

I'm not sure you can make her understand because she may be on a completely different plain of reality than you are. To me you are sounding like you want this to be some kind of serious ongoing relationship between the three of you. To her maybe all she wants is a romp in the hay now and then where she can get some cock and some pussy at the same time. She may be dumping this guy and just wants a back up orgasm plan and an excuse to get out of the house during a potential dry spell untill she gets another boyfriend.

 

Listen I'm not trying to rain on your parage here but lets get down to earth for a little reality check here. most females want their own mate and their own primary relationship. They may enjoy a nice FMF now and then and some may even like a fairly close friendship with a couple at times but you are sounding to me like you are wanting this chick for way more than just an occasional 3-some.

 

Nothing wrong with that but if Speed and Katy aren't on the same page with this it just ain't gonna happen. Maybe the reason they were so quick to make out and not have any issues over it afterwards is they are just seeing it as a little extra recreational fun and aren't taking it as seriously as you are.

 

My advice is to chill out a bit and catch your breath and explore your own feelings first. then you need to see if Speed are Katy are on the same wavelength as you or if they are just looking at this as a little extra naked fun when the opportunity presents itself.

[lizandtom 512]

In most circumstances of this nature I'd have to agree to step away until Katy and her b/f work things out. In her particular situation though, the other b/f has not made any serious commitment to her and they sound iffy at best. Since you and Speed can't worry about everything and everybody, then just enjoy her company. Have fun now so you don't possibly end up kicking yourself for not going for it. If Katy and her b/f end up reconciling then so be it, you'll cross that bridge when you get to it. In the meantime it will be up to Katy to level with her b/f in the manner that's appropriate at that time.

[Speed & Trixie 163]

Thanks for your comments so far. I guess I need to clarify some things. Speed and I have been talking nonstop since this happened. First it was fine, but I started to see signs that she's not over this guy. Since she doesn't feel comfortable telling the Ex about us, I don't think we should be physical until she's totally done with him emotionally. Does that make sense? If she got back together with him and he was cool with us hooking up with her, that would be a different story. I just don't want her resenting us if she regrets not exploing every emotion for this guy on her own. Speed and I are on the same page after much talking -- he was more emotionally removed from it but realizes (now that I've pointed out) that she is NOT as emotionally removed from this. Does that make sense?

BTW, after talking this afternoon Katy finally admitted there's a "less than 5% chance" of her wanting him back. Speed said, well what's wrong with just being friends until that 5% becomes 0%, and then we can talk again? And she agreed

[arvcpl 16]

Are the 3 of you actual adults that have any swinging experience or are you some high school kids worrying about who is going to go with who to the prom this spring? Is this gal married and have a bunch of kids to feed? If so that's one thing, if not let her worry about her so called love life and you two take her up on it if she is wanting to crawl in between the two of you in the sack some time.

 

I too think you are investing way too much emotional energy and investment into this. If every couple waited for a single to be "0%" entangled from any BFs/GFs, there would be no 3-somes in the world. ALL singles that are desirable enough to want into your bed are going to be involved with someone else out there to one degree or another.

 

It's reasonable to not want to deal with someone that is in a supposedly committed relationship and you don't want some pissed off spouse or SO hunting you down and kicking your ass, but to wait for some gal who's on the outs with her BF to be 100% over him untill you can have a FMF with her is crazy.

 

If she has formally broke up with her BF she is fair game and the longer you wait the less she will be motivated to play with you and with each passing day the chances of her finding another BF or of her and him getting back together increase.

 

You two are not marrying this chick. Her emotional tormoil and her relationship follys are not your concern. If she is a consenting adult over the age of 18, isn't married or otherwise committed and the 3 of you have a mutual attraction and all are consenting, that is all you need to get naked.

 

I hate to break it to you but I bet 90+% of the FMFs that take place out there occur when some gal is in the process of dumping some BF or husband.

[lustylearning 705]

It does sound like there's emotional entanglement in this situation, and the warnings that arvcouple is throwing out are legitimate. Consider carefully what you both want out of this situation, as well as what she wants and is capable of giving. Otherwise, you may be setting yourself up for a world of disappointment.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I can't help but wonder if she didn't break up with him because she knows he wouldn't be open to the idea of you guys (since he's already expressed jealousy of the two of you even without knowing about the hookup), and figures that if she broke up with him you guys would be ok with playing again... and she wouldn't have to worry about telling him about it.

 

I do see red flags... and a lot of emotional immaturity on her part (probably the cause of the actions and the biggest red flag IMO).

 

I think you are right to wait. Otherwise you are likely to get stuck in an emotional roller coaster with this girl and her on again off again romance that's going nowhere.

[IvoryTowers 380]

I agree with Julie. Tell Katy that you value her as a friend but that everything you've read and learned about open relationships makes you believe they only work if everyone is completely honest with everyone involved (see, if you blame the boards/books, it won't sound judgmental). Offer her a choice: you can be just friends, she can tell her boyfriend and see what happens, she can break up with her boyfriend and be with the two of you.

 

Stress that you are fine with option 1 if she needs time to figure stuff out, but DON'T let yourself get physical with her until she has made a firm decision. That way lies real pain for some and perhaps all of you.

[Speed & Trixie 163]

You might be on to something, Julie. Katy and X have been on-off/on-off for a few months (even when we 3 weren't talking), but the timing of the "I broke up with him!" was really convienent if you ask me. Speed tends to take things at face value and people at their word, but damn I'm a woman and I'm always reading into things

 

I don't want to paint Katy in a bad light -- this is new to all of us, especially her. And it will probably be no surprise that she's nearly a decade younger than Speed and I! She's been with this guy for some time, and I remember how hard it is to break up with somone you still care about. Over the past year since this started, and very acutely in the past several months, Katy has done a hell of a lot of self-realization. Without boring you with our entire history, I'll say this time around I really had very low expectations for us. I didn't think Katy could prove to me/us that we should even bother with her again. "Meh, let her try and fail," I thought. But I am honestly shocked at how much she HAS matured, and without sounding too cheesy, I'm very proud of her.

 

First and foremost, Katy is our friend. We don't want to ruin the friendship we JUST got back by doing something too fast. All 3 of us have been talking together (a first for us), and Katy has expressed her own fears about rushing into things and her getting too emotionally involved with us...very normal, very healthy fears, I'd say. So we keep talking. She's getting more and more comfortable telling us things we might not want to hear, and every time we don't get pissed off at the truth she feels better. Speed and I went through the same thing with each other.

 

So now, my question to you all (and especially PB&J, The Fuse, and Julie) is this: How will I know we've waited enough? I'm sorry if that sounds silly, but I feel like I don't know how I'll know it's right. Does romantic music start to play like in the movies? Seriously, though -- how do you know when it's right? Since I'm the one that wanted to wait, you'd think I would have an answer to that!

 

BTW: I know some people said we are acting very "non-swinger" but we never claimed we were! We are "newbies" at best (we're on the board cause we're interested), freaky weirdos at worst But we still appreciate the advice!

[Speed & Trixie 163]

Hi IvoryTowers, thanks for posting...I was in the middle of my novel!

 

Katy is broken up with the ex already.

[PB&J 1,086]

You sound like a potential poly relationship... and I'm no expert on that. However, I'd say you wait until you're all comfortable with proceeding. And only you can determine when that will be. And you have to decide whether you want it to be a poly relationship, or FWB, or what. Sounds like there was emotional involvement the first time, so it can be hard to pull back from that, if that's what you have in mind. If it's going to be a serious relationship between the three of you, you need to be confident that the other relationship is done... really done. Just like if it was a "normal" relationship being established between two people.

 

Good luck with it. I hope that it works out for you!

[The Fuse 1,012]

Hi Trixie N Speed,

 

It sounds like of the three of you, you are the most emotionally mature. I know you don't want to let a chance at a really good thing go, and also that you are all probably really excited about the sexual possibilities. As far as when you will know it is right, I think you have to look inside yourself and ask if you think any or all of you would be doing something out of excitement (not usually a bad thing) while also putting aside nagging fears about risking emotional turmoil down the road. Actually, emotional turmoil is not always something to be avoided if you have more significant feelings involved, i.e. you are more poly than swinging. But if you know inside that you are headed down a road that has a decent chance of a bad result for one or more of you, then you are rushing it.

 

I hope that helps. It is easy for us here on this board to stand back and say "Run for the hills", but I am one who thinks that attachments with special people are worth some trouble. It won't surprise you to learn that Mr. Fuse and I have been in a poly relationship or two in the past. We know the difference between that and swinging. There are already real feelings involved in your threesome, so you are not "just" swinging. Please be careful, but at the same time remember life is for the living, not for those who close themselves off to things they might enjoy.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

 

So now, my question to you all (and especially PB&J, The Fuse, and Julie) is this: How will I know we've waited enough? I'm sorry if that sounds silly, but I feel like I don't know how I'll know it's right. Does romantic music start to play like in the movies? Seriously, though -- how do you know when it's right? Since I'm the one that wanted to wait, you'd think I would have an answer to that!

 

BTW: I know some people said we are acting very "non-swinger" but we never claimed we were! We are "newbies" at best (we're on the board cause we're interested), freaky weirdos at worst But we still appreciate the advice!

 

When you can't find any reason/excuse to wait any longer. When you feel comfortable that her relationship with this guy is either over or has moved on to a new plateau where she has told him about you guys and he can be aware (if not involved) in what is going on.

 

As PB&J said, I can see this as a potential poly relationship and if that is not something you are comfortable with the possibility of you may not want to pursue this at all. If you do continue to pursue it keep that thought in your head and be aware of the possibility and communicate with all involved regarding where this could go and where you all want (or don't want) it to go.

[CXXC 435]

I personally like to look at things from each persons point of view. you know what you are thinking and feeling. So it is not too difficult to understand the core reasons for the why, where and what of the matter.

 

Put yourself in her shoes and ask yourself the very same questions.

Put yourself (if at all possible) in the Ex's shoes. Do the same.

Put yourself in Speeds shoes also.

 

After you have done this to some degree of satisfaction, look at the reactions you would have to this situation if you were in each person's shoes. Ask yourself this one question:

Am I reacting out or emotion of reason?

Try to see both points in your thought process.

 

By the end of this exercize, you should have a base understanding of what everyone is thinking and feeling. Aslo, by this time, you should have the strong feeling of wanting to RUN for the hills! Or, you may understand perfectly well how this situation should and will play out.

 

I do this with my customers ona daily basis. It is not fool proof. but it helps me understand them a little better .

[CXXC 435]

By the way, this may not always work as I have yet to be able to convince Mrs. CXXC that the 60 inch Plasma TV is a good idea. I can convince a customer to spend a million dollars but get her to go in for this? Nope! Not happening yet! Any suggestions??

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

By the way, this may not always work as I have yet to be able to convince Mrs. CXXC that the 60 inch Plasma TV is a good idea. I can convince a customer to spend a million dollars but get her to go in for this? Nope! Not happening yet! Any suggestions??

 

Evidently you aren't doing a good enough of job of putting on Mrs CXXC's shoes!

[CXXC 435]

Evidently you aren't doing a good enough of job of putting on Mrs CXXC's shoes!

 

COME ON!!! She wears a 6! I'm a 13 D! She can put those little things on and wear my shoes!

 

Huh! It just dawned on me why she has a new motorcycle and I dont! SHE GETS INTO MY SHOES!!!!! AAARRRRDDDDD!!!!! JEDI MIND TRICKED AGAIN!

[bicuriocpl 90]

"These are not the bikes you are looking for."

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

...I started to see signs that she's not over this guy. Since she doesn't feel comfortable telling the Ex about us, I don't think we should be physical until she's totally done with him emotionally. Does that make sense?

Waiting for her to be over him emotionally seems unreasonable to me. There are many women who after breaking up with a boyfriend with whom they've been in a monogamous relationship with will not be "emotionally" over him for years. Yet, they do go out and date and have sex with new people.

 

I think all you need to know is if she and this guy "taking a break" means they have agreed they can date other people...no more monogamy. (Did they even have a monogamy rule when they were dating? I'm curious because my husband and I were free to date others while we were dating and had no monogamy rule until we decided we wanted to marry each other.)

 

All this talk about telling her exboyfriend about you is another thing I see no need for.

 

When does a couple who splits up have to get the okay to have sex with others before doing so? If I'm dating I sure as heck am not going to tell my ex who I'm dating and ask his permission to have sex with them. It's none of his business!

 

If I were in your shoes I'd think about how my husband and I feel about this woman; is she mature enough to handle a relationship with us, what do we want out of this relationship (people have mentioned Poly but I'm not sure you're looking for that.) If Katy's going to be more trouble, a.k.a. drama, than it's worth to you, then don't pursue her further until you feel she's in a better state of mind to handle swinging with you. I'd be asking myself if having sex with her, even further developing a platonic relationship with her, is going to be good in the long run.

 

If you are just looking to swing with a single woman, maybe it would be better to find someone else that doesn't give you so much to worry about as Katy has.

 

However this develops for you, I hope it turns out well.

 

Good luck!

 

LM

[CXXC 435]

HOLD THE PHONE!!!

 

1. Why would she even think of telling an Ex who she has a physical relationship with. If she feels the need to do so, she is not over him!

2. Is he really an Ex at this point? I have a very sneaking suspision that this may well be a relationship on the rocks yet not over.

3. I fear that "Kate" is telling you what you want to hear in order to have sex with you and your hubbie! I personally don't think the relationship is over. There are just too many points that conflict in my book.

 

(clearing the Jedi mind trick cobwebs)

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I don't think it's about the need to tell the ex. I guess what I'm seeing is an immature girl that is likely to be back with this guy in a week (or a month) and doing so would cause drama for the OP.... a lot of back and forth are we on or are we off. Oh we are back together so we need to be hush hush about what we've been up to and now WE are on a break while you guys are back together.

 

That's what I'm picking up here. Just a lot of drama I wouldn't want to be in the middle of and would rather wait until I know the drama dragon is past before I get involved.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

...Katy has not broken off contact with the Ex, and does not want to tell him about us. They have decided to "take a break" and "see how things go."

 

1. Why would she even think of telling an Ex who she has a physical relationship with. If she feels the need to do so, she is not over him!

Katy isn't thinking about telling her ex-boyfriend, it seems only Trixie feels she should do that, and as I explained in my earlier post, I don't think the ex needs to know.

 

Trixie, Is Katy and this guy living together? If so, that makes a big difference. I stay clear of playing with her if she's still living with him.

 

You say Katy has matured over the past year, but it sounds like she may still need some more maturing before jumping in bed with you again.

 

I guess what I'm seeing is an immature girl that is likely to be back with this guy in a week (or a month) and doing so would cause drama for the OP...a lot of drama I wouldn't want to be in the middle of and would rather wait until I know the drama dragon is past before I get involved.

Exactly.

 

LM

[Speed & Trixie 163]

I don't think it's about the need to tell the ex. I guess what I'm seeing is an immature girl that is likely to be back with this guy in a week (or a month) and doing so would cause drama for the OP.... a lot of back and forth are we on or are we off. Oh we are back together so we need to be hush hush about what we've been up to and now WE are on a break while you guys are back together.

 

That's what I'm picking up here. Just a lot of drama I wouldn't want to be in the middle of and would rather wait until I know the drama dragon is past before I get involved.

 

YES Julie, exactly. Katy has broken up with the ex, says she can't/won't be friends with him, yet has not broken off contact like she said she wanted to. And that is a hard thing to do, I understand that. Sometimes it can take a long time before you really let go. But since he doesn't know about us, he probably sees no real reason he can't "win her back." The more she has contact, the harder he tries, the more his hopes are up, the harder it is for her to break it off, the more confused she gets, etc. I'm not saying she's intentionally stringing him (or us) along -- I'm saying it's a difficult situation for her. And that spells drama for us!

 

I DO think it's odd that she hides the truth from a guy she says she cares about, ex or no, and it makes me wonder if she is able to truly be honest with us...or herself! If YOU were the ex, wouldn't you like to know the girl you're trying to get back with is wanting to hook up with a couple (and would be already, if she had her way)? I mean, I'd be putting my energies elsewhere if I knew that about my ex-mate. Might help me get over them faster. [Mr. CXXC and I are a lot alike LOL I've been putting myself in everyone's shoes for months about this!] But that's really neither here nor there at this point. **I don't care if she EVER tells him or not, and I've told her that.** I don't know the guy, she knows him well, and some people don't react well to certain news. I care that she is honest with us, and that's ALL I need from her. Honesty.

 

All that said, we haven't spoken to Katy about this in about a week, so I'm not sure what's going on with her in terms of her feelings. But it's okay, we're on friendly terms. Until it feels right for all 3 of us, we won't be considering getting involved beyond friendship (whatever that ends up being for us). It seems like all of us have taken a little step back to catch our breath, and I think that's a good thing.

[CXXC 435]

The most encouraging words I have heard are that the three of you are taking a step back. If you are truly friends, you will remain friends. If the relationship is meant to be, it will. My Grandfather had a saying, "A good idea in August is still a good idea in October!" Take your time, enjoy your possible friendship and see where the adventure leads.

 

Trixie

I'm not really sure that you and I are of the same mind. If that were the case, you and Speed would already be on a plane to Savannah or already sitting in our hot tub by now! Now that is thinking alike!

[Speed & Trixie 163]

About time I voiced up in this thread huh?

 

Speed here. And I wanted to make one thing clear, Trixie and I have ALWAYS been on the same page with this. We have been communicating with each other since the get go. I have never once tried to push things further than Trixie was comfortable with. In fact, this scenario has gone on for quite a bit now, and we have found ourselves to be stronger than ever together because of it! I am actually very happy that this has all come into our lives as it has taught us quite a bit about ourselves and strengthened the communication between the two of us immensely.

 

So far... it seems we have handled ourselves, and this scenario vey well in my opinon. All of this is a learning experience for us, that is for damn sure. But we are enjoying the lessons taught and the advice given by the board.

 

We'll see where it goes from here!!!

 

Speed

[LOL_OMG 130]

You two are not marrying this chick. Her emotional tormoil and her relationship follys are not your concern. If she is a consenting adult over the age of 18, isn't married or otherwise committed and the 3 of you have a mutual attraction and all are consenting, that is all you need to get naked.

 

I disagree. While you are not "marrying this chick" I concur with others that there is an emotional component which has already taken place. You both said you are friends with her and care about her, and intimacy only amplifies those feelings.

 

I kinna think you're headed for more, not sure if it will be good or bad...but it will be...life anyway

 

Mrs

__________________

[safireblues 106]

This sounds like too much complication, drama, effort for a relationship. Either fuck her and stay unemotional, or if you can't, stay away.

 

My .02.

[Additude 457]

I'm not sure how much "Katy" has matured. But then I have no basis to understand just how immature you previously judged her.

 

But, I'm sure "Katy" doesn't need a "Mommy" and I think your getting way to involved with her emotionally at this time.

 

I think your real basic concern should be that as your personal relationship progresses with Katy, then your allowing your own personal commitment to become much more involved and expansive.

 

I can't accurately comment on your previous relationship with Katy, but it sounded like drama 10 to me and that's exactly what you should be trying to avoid this time around.

 

Why can't Katy have a BF and YOU respect her decision not to tell him until which time she feels fit? I mean, why can that not be? According to YOU, Katy can have a BF, but YOUR rules say she has to tell her BF about YOUR relationship with her.

 

Nonsense....pure nonsense.

 

Trixie, you need to disengage emotionally. Apparently your hubby and Katy were capable of keeping it on the low, but now you've convinced both of them to realize some escalated emotional situation that needs immediate refrainment.

 

What if Katy dumps this BF and in a month finds a new BF and elects not to tell him either? To what drama detail level are YOU going take that new situation to at that time?

 

I think you need to just keep this simple and that you and Speed need to enjoy her company without all this induced emotion. Keep the drama out of it. If she has a problem, be a friend, otherwise you already have a marriage responsibility and your not married to Katy....well at least you shouldn't be, but that's what it sounds like you are trying to accomplish.

 

YOU are treating YOUR relationship with Katy out of context and have complicated the situation beyond necessity....which is where I think the real problem lies.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Just saw your post in "whiners, moaners & groaners". I guess she hadn't matured that much after all. Sorry to hear it, I know I'm not alone when I say that I was really hoping things would work out for you the 3 of you.

[Speed & Trixie 163]

Thank you, Julie. That was very recent so I can't post more on this subject now.

 

Trixie