An open and honest talk about ED

[arvcpl 16]

I know I often come off as obnoxious and crude in many posts but I do wish to have an open and frank discussion about something I think is a real issue for countless people in the lifestyle and I assure you all that I will be nothing but sensitive, compassionate and approach this with great humility.

 

This past weekend we had an encounter with a very nice couple and for about the umpteenth time in row the other male was unable to perform. My wife and I got to looking back and crunching the numbers and the vast majority of the times we have been with another couple or couples the other male could not perform at all or had great difficulty at one time or another.

 

I won't pretend that this has never been an issue with me either. I have always eventually been able to get into action and get the job done for both parties but there have been times I did not perform to my expectations or to my satisfaction.

 

I do not have ED. In fifteen years of marriage I have not failed once at home with my wife but I have had difficulty a few times in swinging situations. Many of the other men that have failed have also claimed that they have never had any trouble with there own partner at home and I believe them.

 

I have no reason to believe our experiences are unique. I believe that ED within the swinging environment may be epidemic but people don't talk about it much. I'd like to change that and I'd like to talk about it openly and frankly and see if there are some things that can be done to correct it.

 

This is having a serious impact on our enjoyment of the lifestyle. In a couple years of swinging we could probably count on one hand the number of times that someone did NOT have some kind of performance problem. Many of these are healthy and vigorous guys that claim to have never had any problems outside of the lifestyle and I believe most of their sincerity. My wife is getting frustrated to the point that it is having a very detrimental effect on her enjoyment of the lifestyle and she cannot help but taking it personally thinking that she is not attractive or desirable. It has been a real downer on me as well since often times the other couple makes such a big deal over it and blows the mood for everyone.

 

I think there have got to be some common variables that can contribute to this and I also think there has to be some solutions since these are healthy guys with no prior histories of ED.

 

Please share you thoughts and insights and experiences as well as please offer freely any possible solutions, tricks or techniques that can offer some help. If someone has a failure to perform it does not just effect that guy and his partner, It can turn a whole evening into a bust for everyone as some guys just turn into assholes and cause scenes and discomfort for everyone when it happens.

 

Any advice, feedback and solutions will be greatly appreciated. Please offer any observations you have made and offer any tricks or techniques that have worked for you. Thank you.

[The Fuse 1,012]

Like you, I do not mean my post to be confrontational or belittling. I'll just share a few anecdotes from what Mr. Fuse and I have seen in three years of swapping.

 

Mr. Fuse has had trouble only once in all of that time (might have been twice but I am not sure when the other time was). A little oral solved that right away. At home, he is always hard when he wants to be. But he knows when he is not in the mood, as well.

 

We have seen a few other guys have trouble. As they get into their late 40s and early 50s, which is the oldest I've seen, it becomes more frequent. Condoms are a big factor, IMO. One of them sprang to attention on our third playdate, when we agreed to go bareback. The other could get an erection but couldn't keep it for very long if he had a condom on. I've had more than one partner who could get an erection, then had to hurry-hurry-hurry while getting the condom on and starting intercourse.

 

Two others, I chalk up to either general performance anxiety *or* maybe they just weren't that into me. One of those, we were only with once. The other, had one or two good playdates and one or two with issues.

 

I've seen a guy whose erection is *extremely* reliable flag a bit in a situation where there were three couples in the room. Just a lot of people around.

 

My opinion is that our expectations of men are generally a bit unfair, if we expect them always to be ready. The stereotype is that men never get enough sex and are always hard and ready for action. I think the reality, for some men at least, is more complicated. Some men fit the stereotype, some don't.

 

I wonder, how old are your wife's playmates? Are they in good physical shape? If they are over 50, not in good shape, or perhaps if they have had more than one drink, or if it is very late at night, any of those things could be a contributing factor.

 

And the loaded questions... I suppose if you feel that the number of "problems" your wife has run into is a lot higher than expected, well... you do have to at least consider the possibility that she is doing something to turn them off. That is not a pleasant thing to consider, I realize. I don't know what the numbers are, nor was I there when you had your experiences. It is very easy to brush it off as "it's not you", a certain amount of time. Up to some point, you can attribute your problems to bad luck.

 

But... what if it's something else? So I ask the following questions about your wife relative to herself and her playmates. For everyone else reading this out there who has also experienced a lot of problems with male playmates, these questions might apply. Is she overly, and overtly, expectant of them? Is she an active, enthusiastic, positive lover with them, or is she more passive? Or does she go straight for the cock right off, without much foreplay, and wonder why it's not pointing?

 

Does she give oral?

 

When getting down to business, does she somehow telegraph her past frustrations and perpetuate the problem with her "vibe"? Low expectations can easily translate to reality.

 

I have to ask these things, because you did not address them in your original post. I hope these questions don't cause offense.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,023]

Additional reading: Should a man having ED declare in advance?

[Chicup 41]

My opinion is that our expectations of men are generally a bit unfair, if we expect them always to be ready. The stereotype is that men never get enough sex and are always hard and ready for action. I think the reality, for some men at least, is more complicated. Some men fit the stereotype, some don't.

 

To play the advocate of the dark lord yet again....

 

I'm of the opinion that, if as a male you are not going out swinging 'ready' for sex then you shouldn't be out swinging that night. If a athlete comes to the game and isn't into it they get criticized for it. If I'm not in the mood for sex then I shouldn't put myself in a position where someone expects it. If you just want to go hang out a club and be social that night, thats fine, but just be social.

 

Now I know I'm a tad younger than average (and at this point only a tad) so maybe I'm just always 'hard and ready for action' because of that but I have a theory for a lot of the 'Swinger ED' and a solution.

 

I think for some of these guys they are so worried about performing that they might 'clean the pipes' prior, for others there is the sort of territorial having sex with their wife prior, or whatever other reason (perhaps so turned on by the thought of swinging if they are new). So they have sex recently, perhaps just prior, to going to the swinging event, and then you combine that with the extra pressure of an audience and thinking about your SO and bingo no wood.

 

The solution is obvious. HOLD OFF. Years ago when we first started I used to conspire with a husband to deprive the women of sex for at least a few days prior to us getting together. This meant that we were ready and they were ready to really go wild. To this day we never have sex the day prior to swinging (more for her) and often wait a couple of days. Being horny in that sort of situation is fun, being take it or leave it, not as fun.

 

So for those with medical ED thats unfortunate and not fair, but for those with 'swinger ED' as in 'he can get it up with his wife' or 'the condom makes it go away' don't have sex for a couple of weeks prior. Hell go a month if you are really worried, odds are you would be able to get it up for a goat while wearing a condom, drunk, at the 50 yard line of the superbowl after a month.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,023]

Chicup said:

. . . So for those with medical ED thats unfortunate and not fair, but for those with 'swinger ED' as in 'he can get it up with his wife' or 'the condom makes it go away' don't have sex for a couple of weeks prior. . . .

What you have said here has suggested to me that inventing some language might be helpful.

 

Medical ED -- resulting from diabetes or prostate surgery or other medical

Swinger ED -- I like this one. Roughly equivalent to what would have happened to your boner if you were 13 years of age and your mother inadvertently walked into the room; a "psychological" reaction. This one could have subcategories.

Condom ED -- I am not able to suggest a cause but I have read about it here ofter enough.

Self-inflicted ED -- resulting from the consumption of alcohol

Self-doubt ED -- You are so worried about having ED that you experience ED (I hear this worrying about not getting enough sleep is a reason for not getting enough sleep).

Saint Rita Moreno ED -- You heard so many times in your religious-school education that a woman's body is a temple that Peter refuses to pass through the gate.

 

It is only partially my intention to make light. Are there other terms we could invent that would be helpful?

[The Fuse 1,012]

Chicup said:

To play the advocate of the dark lord yet again....

 

Aw, give us a break... you enjoy it. .

 

Chicup said:

I'm of the opinion that, if as a male you are not going out swinging 'ready' for sex then you shouldn't be out swinging that night. If a athlete comes to the game and isn't into it they get criticized for it. If I'm not in the mood for sex then I shouldn't put myself in a position where someone expects it. If you just want to go hang out a club and be social that night, thats fine, but just be social.

 

I agree with this if you're just going to a club or a party. If you're not in the mood or you feel a bit off, you shouldn't try to play. And probably you don't have ED normally in that case anyway.

 

But if you've made plans with a couple in advance, and you just are tired that day or feel a little off, it's different. We hate getting canceled on. Our last time with a certain couple, the guy had some stomach issues and couldn't really do much. The next morning he looked like hell, and not from drinking. He has been kind of hit-or-miss with me since we first got together. I don't know if I'd call it ED or what. But the main point is that I was happy with what did happen, and was glad he came out. If they had canceled on us, I would have felt like that was a signal.

 

 

Chicup said:

Now I know I'm a tad younger than average (and at this point only a tad) so maybe I'm just always 'hard and ready for action' because of that but I have a theory for a lot of the 'Swinger ED' and a solution.

 

I think for some of these guys they are so worried about performing that they might 'clean the pipes' prior, for others there is the sort of territorial having sex with their wife prior, or whatever other reason (perhaps so turned on by the thought of swinging if they are new). So they have sex recently, perhaps just prior, to going to the swinging event, and then you combine that with the extra pressure of an audience and thinking about your SO and bingo no wood.

 

This would annoy me... to know that my playmate had done something like that if they knew they'd be less likely to perform. It would be similar to if he'd drunk too much or ate something that often makes him feel sick. Just stupid and not really considerate.

 

 

Chicup said:

The solution is obvious. HOLD OFF. Years ago when we first started I used to conspire with a husband to deprive the women of sex for at least a few days prior to us getting together. This meant that we were ready and they were ready to really go wild. To this day we never have sex the day prior to swinging (more for her) and often wait a couple of days. Being horny in that sort of situation is fun, being take it or leave it, not as fun.

 

Mr. Fuse and I definitely do this. But in those cases we've got plans that have been made at least those couple of days in advance. If you don't have a date and there's no party or club, then you might have to decide whether to have sex on the off chance that you might get a last-minute date.

 

 

Chicup said:

So for those with medical ED that's unfortunate and not fair, but for those with 'swinger ED' as in 'he can get it up with his wife' or 'the condom makes it go away' don't have sex for a couple of weeks prior. Hell go a month if you are really worried, odds are you would be able to get it up for a goat while wearing a condom, drunk, at the 50 yard line of the superbowl after a month.

 

Okay, a month seems pretty extreme. I don't think we'd even be swinging at all if that meant we had to abstain with each other for that long. I'd say if you can't build up a head of steam in a couple of days and with a little bit of blue pill help ("Why, oh why, didn't I take the blue pill?"), then it's time to try something else. Like maybe separate rooms or whatever would enhance the mood.

[IvoryTowers 380]

SW_PA_Couple said:

What you have said here has suggested to me that inventing some language might be helpful.

 

Medical ED -- resulting from diabetes or prostate surgery or other medical

Swinger ED -- I like this one. Roughly equivalent to what would have happened to your boner if you were 13 years of age and your mother inadvertently walked into the room; a "psychological" reaction. This one could have subcategories.

Condom ED -- I am not able to suggest a cause but I have read about it here often enough.

Self-inflicted ED -- resulting from the consumption of alcohol

Self-doubt ED -- You are so worried about having ED that you experience ED (I hear this worrying about not getting enough sleep is a reason for not getting enough sleep).

Saint Rita Moreno ED -- You heard so many times in your religious-school education that a woman's body is a temple that Peter refuses to pass through the gate.

 

It is only partially my intention to make light. Are there other terms we could invent that would be helpful?

 

I like these terms! I have to say that every single man I have played with has had some sort of erection problem. Most have been short lived (the man self-ministered or I performed oral sex and all was well after some time), but in a couple of cases the guy just didn't get hard or kept going limp.

 

I'm hoping it wasn't my performance--I tried hard to offer whatever he might want (oral sex, a hand job, a break, his own partner)--but I am willing to admit that in some cases the guy might not have been into me.

 

However, since it is so widespread (Mr. Ivory has had some staying hard problems as well, which, like others, he never has at home) I have come to the conclusion that this is a natural part of swinging.

 

First off, no matter how much we all believe this is not cheating and it's good and fine, some part of our brain recognizes that this is not the normal situation and that, in fact, this situation is supposed to get us in a lot of trouble with the spouse.

 

Second, all the men I've been with have been very considerate and focused on my pleasure, which of course distracts them from their pleasure.

 

Third, I really do believe that more bodies=more ED. You'd think it would be the opposite, but it's distracting to have another couple having sex right next to you! Even if it's also arousing, it can still distract the blood from flowing in the right direction.

 

And I'm the first to admit that I don't always orgasm in play sessions, for the above reasons. I have a great time, but sometimes I just can't relax and focus on what's happening to me long enough to get there. That's fine--the sex with Mr. Ivory is that much hotter next time. But I sure am glad I don't have a meter attached to my crotch!

[NotSorry 155]

Thanks for bringing this up. It is not something I would have anticipated being so common.

[NotSorry 155]

But I sure am glad I don't have a meter attached to my crotch!

 

ha, me too!

[MrkLin 393]

Just tossing a thought out here for consideration. During a routine physical a few years back, my doctor told me I had a very high cholesterol level. I didn't need medication for it - just a change of diet and more exercise. He asked if I had any 'erectile issues,' and I told him that there were times that I wished that things were a bit firmer, but there was no major problem. He gave me a sample pack of Viagra, and off I went. I was back the next week to get a full prescription.

 

Since then, I have changed my diet and am a lot more physically active. The problems are gone now as well. According to my doctor, there is a direct relationship between cholesterol levels and erectile function - it's all about blood flow, remember. I had never heard this before. All I know is that it worked in my case. My cholesterol level has gone down, and my erectile problems have ceased.

 

So, just a suggestion from a guy who has been there - if you're having intermittent problems, or just aren't satisfied with the 'quality' of your erections, check with your doctor about your cholesterol levels (If you're over 40, you should have that checked, along with your PSA level anyway.) It might be something as simple as cutting back on certain foods and becoming a bit more active. I know it worked for me.

[Precocious 94]

Okay, it's starting to sound like swinging is a performance event. If that's so, then I don't want it. People are human and not infallable. Everyone has a bad day (or night - whatever the case may be).

 

Mrs. Precocious

[Chicup 41]

Just tossing a thought out here for consideration. During a routine physical a few years back, my doctor told me I had a very high cholesterol level. I didn't need medication for it - just a change of diet and more exercise. He asked if I had any 'erectile issues,' and I told him that there were times that I wished that things were a bit firmer, but there was no major problem. He gave me a sample pack of Viagra, and off I went. I was back the next week to get a full prescription.

 

Since then, I have changed my diet and am a lot more physically active. The problems are gone now as well. According to my doctor, there is a direct relationship between cholesterol levels and erectile function - it's all about blood flow, remember. I had never heard this before. All I know is that it worked in my case. My cholesterol level has gone down, and my erectile problems have ceased.

 

So, just a suggestion from a guy who has been there - if you're having intermittent problems, or just aren't satisfied with the 'quality' of your erections, check with your doctor about your cholesterol levels (If you're over 40, you should have that checked, along with your PSA level anyway.) It might be something as simple as cutting back on certain foods and becoming a bit more active. I know it worked for me.

 

This is the problem of correlation does not equal causation.

 

High cholesterol doesn't impede blood flow unless you have a clot, and I'd be far more willing to guess it was the lifestyle change and Viagra that made the real difference.

[rpu3 630]

Okay, it's starting to sound like swinging is a performance event.

 

How so?

[jdavisauto 73]

This is a very touchy subject that will at one time or another will affect all men. With me I have leukemia diabetes and high blood pressure. With the medicines that I take it does effect me in many ways and at times it take a little longer to get into the action and a little longer to finish with everyone else. My wife is a very understanding lady but at time I’m just not able to meet her needs. When we play with other couples or single ladies they are told upfront what to expect and what may happen. I love watching her with other couples and other ladies and she loves being watch. I would say that 99.99% of the people are very understanding and most times it works out for everyone involve.

[good times 991]

First I feel compelled to say that I have tried the "Hold off" for a day or two method and it didn't work at all for me.

 

That said, I have made a few observations over the years regarding this problem.

 

For me, the number one reason why this happens is that the woman I am with is just not doing it for me. This does not mean I do not find her attractive or sexy. What it means is that her idea of what sex is and mine are not in sync.

 

A good example of this is our most recent swinging experience. We met a couple through SLS and agreed to meet at one of the local clubs. They were new (had only had one previous play experience), but we didn't let that deter us, we just spent a little extra time getting to know them to make sure they both seemed into this and on the same page, as we usually do with newbies. We thought we had thoroughly covered each others rules before going to the play room, but we were wrong. Once we got to the play room and got started, the woman said, "oh, by the way, no kissing is allowed". Now normally we would have ended it right there, but it was a slow night at the club and they were really nice folks, so we pressed on. Next surprise, she says to me, "oh, don't play with or suck my breasts, I just hate that. And while I am on the subject, I really don't care much for receiving oral either, it just doesn't do anything for me". OK, at this point, I was beginning to see that this was going to be a "less than optimum" experience. Sure enough, while everything came to proper attention while she was giving me oral, by the time the condoms were on, the condom was quickly becoming unnecessary, as I was deflating rapidly due to a lack of stimulating ways to occupy myself. So, at this point we called it a night.

 

The funny thing about this encounter to me is that it kills the notion that a lot of folks have, that all guys are turned on by the same things. Because, other than the kissing thing, which this couple claims they like to do with each other. After talking to them, it turns out that he doesn't care for playing with tits or giving oral to a women. So, while they are a perfect match for each other, they weren't even a close match for us. The funny part is, because he isn't into these things that she doesn't care for, it never occurred to them to mention them until play was underway. In other words, because these things are not important parts of sex for them, it never occurred to them that these things would be essential for someone else to be sexually stimulated.

 

The second most common reason for me to have a problem is being tired. I can be all raring to go when we head out to the club. But then by midnight or later when it is time to perform I am more ready for a nap than I am for sex. So, to mitigate this problem I have often let it be pretty well known that if one wants my "A" game, we better get started early. In fact it is an often heard comment around the club that GT turns into a pumpkin at midnight.

 

A distant third is to many distractions, over time though I have gotten to the point that I can usually shut the distractions out. This seems to be the key, at least it was for me, experience seems to be the only way to get over this one.

 

Lastly is the problem of defeating ones self. What happens is that you worry that you may have trouble "keeping it up", and because you are worrying so much about it, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It is easy to say, "don't do that" but my experience is that this too is only overcome with experience.

[Chicup 41]

Next surprise, she says to me, "oh, don't play with or suck my breasts, I just hate that. And while I am on the subject, I really don't care much for receiving oral either, it just doesn't do anything for me".

 

After talking to them, it turns out that he doesn't care for playing with tits or giving oral to a women.

 

Due to the rarity of both 'conditions' I'm going to guess that its him not into it and shes either playing along or just doesn't know any better. The odds of two people like this meeting seems astronomically small. Tits were MEANT to be played with.

 

But that threadjack aside great post.

[MrkLin 393]

This is the problem of correlation does not equal causation.

 

High cholesterol doesn't impede blood flow unless you have a clot, and I'd be far more willing to guess it was the lifestyle change and Viagra that made the real difference.

 

I'm not a doctor, and I know that you are, so I won't argue with you a bit on this subject. All I know is what my doctor told me. Maybe he was just trying to give me more 'incentive' to bring my cholesterol down - I really don't know. I do know that it needed to be done, and I did it. Whatever it was, it worked.

 

And I don't use the Viagra very often at all anymore. I got 5 pills last June and still have 3 of them, so that should say something. I use them only when Lin and I go on one of our 'runaway weekends' that involve going to another town and spending the weekend away from everything and everybody, and just focus on being with each other. Yeah, it involves a lot of sex between the two of us, and I just don't want to let her down - I want to make sure I can rise to any occasion.

 

As a side note; the fact that I still have 3 pills left 10 months after getting them tells me that we're overdue for another such weekend...

[SW_PA_Couple 4,023]

Precocious said:

Okay, it's starting to sound like swinging is a performance event. If that's so, then I don't want it. People are human and not infallible. Everyone has a bad day (or night - whatever the case may be).

 

Mrs. Precocious

 

A cogent comment. I forget in which forum or thread the comment was made or by whom the comment was made but somebody referred to a man-woman encounter as a "session". This one struck me between the eyes. Makes it sound like a visit to the dentist -- i.e let's get this over with so I can get to the next item on the agenda.

[steversk 19]

As a man who is now 57 I can relate to a lot of what has been brought up here. When I was in my 20's and 30's my wife and I had sex 4-6 times a week with never a problem. Now I find there are times that I have difficulty maintaining an erection. They can be attributed to one or more of the following.

 

1) Being tired. I own my own business, so my day starts at 4 a.m. and I don't usually get home until 8-9 p.m. During the week I am usually getting 5-6 hours sleep.

 

2) Alcohol: A glass of wine with dinner will relax me, but already being tired it relaxes me too much.

 

3) Attitude: If my wife is tired and not really into having sex that can affect me. Similar to the previous comments about the play partner "is that the woman I am with is just not doing it for me".

 

4) Distractions: In another discussion about age and performance one man suggested that we are more easily distracted as we get older. This could be from putting on a condom or getting a cramp from the position we are in, or the distraction of having other people around.

 

5) Worrying about it only makes it worse.

 

Lately I have found I have had a problem when coming home from work, have a drink with dinner, then we go in the jacuzzi. By that time I am so relaxed that if my wife decides she wants to have sex, it is very difficult for me to stay hard. So, now we try and plan when we are going to play so I will lay off the alcohol and not do the jacuzzi. Holding off for awhile is not a factor. If I get a good nights sleep, I am ready for more the next morning after we have had sex. I think the main thing is just being aware of your body and what affects your performance, and then planning accordingly.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

The second most common reason for me to have a problem is being tired. I can be all raring to go when we head out to the club. But then by midnight or later when it is time to perform I am more ready for a nap than I am for sex.

 

That's my Achilles' heel. Usually our night out is preceded by a long day of work for me. Like you, I'm ready to go when the night begins, but if it gets too late, I'm looking for a pillow.

 

Tits were MEANT to be played with.

I gave up religion a long time ago, but damn, this statement makes me want to shout "Amen!".

[arvcpl 16]

Wow, thank you for all the great replys. I do not have time to address some of the questions that have been asked of us at the moment but will try to get to them when I have time to make a proper response.

 

Thank you for respectfull and open discussion!!!!

[arvcpl 16]

The Fuse said:

I wonder, how old are your wife's playmates? Are they in good physical shape? If they are over 50, not in good shape, or perhaps if they have had more than one drink, or if it is very late at night, any of those things could be a contributing factor.

 

And the loaded questions... I suppose if you feel that the number of "problems" your wife has run into is a lot higher than expected, well... you do have to at least consider the possibility that she is doing something to turn them off. That is not a pleasant thing to consider, I realize. I don't know what the numbers are, nor was I there when you had your experiences. It is very easy to brush it off as "it's not you", a certain amount of time. Up to some point, you can attribute your problems to bad luck.

 

But... what if it's something else? So I ask the following questions about your wife relative to herself and her playmates. For everyone else reading this out there who has also experienced a lot of problems with male playmates, these questions might apply. Is she overly, and overtly, expectant of them? Is she an active, enthusiastic, positive lover with them, or is she more passive? Or does she go straight for the cock right off, without much foreplay, and wonder why it's not pointing?

 

Does she give oral?

 

When getting down to business, does she somehow telegraph her past frustrations and perpetuate the problem with her "vibe"? Low expectations can easily translate to reality.

 

I have to ask these things, because you did not address them in your original post. I hope these questions don't cause offense.

 

 

These are all valid questions and many of them we have asked ourselves over and over ourselves. Then men in question are in good health and have ranged in age from early 20s to 50 with most in the 30s. My wife is very fit and attractive and is extremely picky and selective. Most of the guys are very fit and healthy and many have been everything from gym rats to some actual marathon runners. these are not couch potatoes that have let themselves go.

 

She is an oral master so that is not a problem:D

 

As far as any of her behaviors I honestly cannot point a finger at any behavioral trait of hers that may be to blame. Now keep in mind I think she is the hottest woman in the world and she is the love of my life so of course I don't think there is anything wrong with her and I think a guy would have to be nuts not to want to be with her but I am sincere in seeking resolution here so I am open minded to if whatever responsible roles she/we may have.

 

Of course we have never point blank asked any of these guys why they can't perform and they all have stated she is a beautiful and sexy woman and have all said the perfunctory, "it's not you!"

 

When she picks out someone she is attracted to and interested in she is a motivated and participating lover and is not at all passive and is definitely not a dead fish if that is what you are getting at.

 

And I do also believe in the sincerity of these men that they do want to be with her.

 

Alcohol I know has been a factor and we are a bit partial to group experiences and I realize that some people can not perform well in a group situation but this has happen just as much when it is just two couples ( we don't play separate so I can't address that)

[The Fuse 1,012]

Thanks for your responses and your positive attitude. I was afraid you might take my comments amiss.

 

Alcohol I know has been a factor and we are a bit partial to group experiences and I realize that some people can not perform well in a group situation but this has happen just as much when it is just two couples ( we don't play separate so I can't address that)

 

So far, these are the two most concrete things you've pointed out that seem worth addressing. Perhaps trying a few two-on-two experiences, or even separate rooms? And asking her playmates to limit alcohol, or at least giving enough of a hint that they take that hint on their own?

 

I know these actions might seem like non-trivial sacrifices, given your preferences. But perhaps they are worth a shot, if your total enjoyment of the lifestyle is being affected.

[crazinred 36]

Myself suffering from Diabetes and high blood pressure. I suffer Medical ED as listed above. I can not get hard with out some kind of help. The pills do little for me so now we are using trimix injection. I works some times if I get it in the correct spot. Sometimes it just seems impossible to tell the needle is where it needs to go. Also when it works it lasts around 4 hours and if not playing the whole time it gets uncomfortable.

 

Now that all said when we are at a club or playing with a couple we make sure it is know that I may not be able to get a hard on. I love to eat pussy and am very good with my hands. So far I have had no complaints.

[iapr 24]

This has been an interesting thread and we too have seen this happen. I do agree that there is a difference between conventional medical ED and ED that occurs in LS situations. We too have seen men that (at least they claim) that have never had performance issues at home that have difficulty in LS encounters.

 

Since there is a difference in performance between two different environments that means that there is probably a variable between the two environments causing the issue.

 

I suspect some of it could be attributed to how a lot of people behave in a lifestyle setting. So often I see men standing in the corner drinking with their buddies while the wives are out dancing and frolicking. I have seen couples where there is very little interaction taking place between the men and women at all. Then when everyone heads to a room the women start out getting it on and doing the foreplay the men continue to drink and just watch from the shadows.

 

When the women get to where F/F isn't cutting it anymore and they want some cock the men are suddenly thrust to center stage and expected to get it up and stick it in some gal that they haven't talked to all night, have no personal rapport with and have not had any meaningfull foreplay with.

 

Also I agree with an earlier poster that said that it is assumed that any man will gladly fuck any woman and be thankfull for the chance to do it. THAT IS A MYTH!! and it is a myth that even men buy into. Even guys themselves think that their dicks will work with any woman that is reasonably attractive but unfortunately that really isn't the case. We don't question it a bit if a woman doesn't find a man appealing enough to fuck but we assume a man will fuck any woman.

 

The truth is there is a million years of evolution that have dictated that males need to pursue, entice and seduce females that they find attractive. There is not a single species on the planet where males sit and drink like bumps on logs and then the female spreads her legs and says, "it's time to come over here and fuck me now."

 

I guess what I am saying is that in many ways a typical lifestyle encounter is an unnatural act that circumvents the natural order.

 

My guess is if a guy can perform 100% with his wife at home but limps out in lifestyle situations he needs to look at a wide variety of things such as his alcohol intake and take a serious look at how attracted to and comfortable with potential playmates he really is. Men need to be able to say no too or to at least realize what situations are more likely to cause him to fail before he puts himself into those situations and avoid or modify those situations.

[arvcpl 16]

The Fuse said:

Thanks for your responses and your positive attitude. I was afraid you might take my comments amiss.

 

So far, these are the two most concrete things you've pointed out that seem worth addressing. Perhaps trying a few two-on-two experiences, or even separate rooms? And asking her playmates to limit alcohol, or at least giving enough of a hint that they take that hint on their own?

 

I know these actions might seem like non-trivial sacrifices, given your preferences. But perhaps they are worth a shot, if your total enjoyment of the lifestyle is being affected.

 

We do enjoy 2/2 encounters but it has happened about just as much with them. The alcohol is a issue. I don't drink at all and my wife drinks very little. The alcohol is kind of a one-two punch for potential playmates. If they are drinking too much right from the start they are gross drunks and we don't invite them to play to begin with but even if they haven't surpassed the obnoxious stage it still has an effect.

 

Great thoughts everyone and thank you for your honesty and advice!!

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

arvcpl said:

This past weekend we had an encounter with a very nice couple and for about the umpteeth time in row the other male was unable to perform. My wife and I got to looking back and crunching the numbers and the vast majority of the times we have been with another couple or couples the other male could not perform at all or had great difficulty at one time or another.

 

I have no reason to believe our experiences are unique. I believe that ED within the swinging environment may be epidemic but people don't talk about it much.

 

This is having a serious impact on our enjoyment of the lifestyle. In a couple years of swinging we could probably count on one hand the number of times that someone did NOT have some kind of performance problem.

 

Discussing ED issues can help guys who are having this problem, however you don't have a personal problem, rather the guys you are choosing to play with do and they aren't going to be reading this thread.

 

I know ED happens, but in my experience I don't see it as epidemic. And for you to have so few non-ED play experiences that you can count them on one hand, I have to think it has something to do with how you and your wife are swinging and your choice of play partners.

 

All I can suggest is that if your wife is willing to try different types of men than she has been choosing all these years, maybe she will find men who can offer her more sexual satisfaction. It seems the gym rats and marathon runners that your wife prefers aren't as "performance fit" in bed. Physical perfection doesn't always mean sexual perfection.

 

Is your wife able to be turned on by WHO a man is, not just what he looks like? Is she good at making men feel good about who they are, not just how hot she thinks they look? Does she know the difference between the two? There IS a difference.

 

Some of the men I most enjoy playing with, who satisfy me most in bed, are men most women wouldn't notice from across the room. Once I get to know them, I like them immensely, THEN they become sexy to me.

[arvcpl 16]

LikeMinds321 said:

Discussing ED issues can help guys who are having this problem, however you don't have a personal problem, rather the guys you are choosing to play with do and they aren't going to be reading this thread.

 

I know ED happens, but in my experience I don't see it as epidemic. And for you to have so few non-ED play experiences that you can count them on one hand, I have to think it has something to do with how you and your wife are swinging and your choice of play partners.

 

All I can suggest is that if your wife is willing to try different types of men than she has been choosing all these years, maybe she will find men who can offer her more sexual satisfaction. It seems the gym rats and marathon runners that your wife prefers aren't as "performance fit" in bed. Physical perfection doesn't always mean sexual perfection.

 

Is your wife able to be turned on by WHO a man is, not just what he looks like? Is she good at making men feel good about who they are, not just how hot she thinks they look? Does she know the difference between the two? There IS a difference.

 

Some of the men I most enjoy playing with, who satisfy me most in bed, are men most women wouldn't notice from across the room. Once I get to know them, I like them immensely, THEN they become sexy to me.

 

I kind of answered this when The Fuse asked it with different verbiage. I'm not sure if you are taking offense to my gym rat and marathon comments or not. My point to mentioning that is that some (but certainly not all) of the men that this has happened with are people that are fit and healthy and take care of themselves. If people find it arrogant and superficial that her preference is fit men I don't know how to respond to that. I am just an average looking at best guy myself and she treats me well so while I think I get your point I am kind of stumped as to how to respond.

 

As I responded to the fuse I do not know if there is something about her that is turning them off. I think she is the sexiest woman alive but then I'm married to her so yes I am biased. In all honesty though, I don't see her treating them in any way differently than other women are treating me or other women treating other men. I also need to add that a few of the men (or their wives)have at some point or another mentioned that this happened in other encounters that did not involve us so I don't think she or we are completely to blame.

 

That's the best answer I can provide to that line of questioning. We have never conducted "exit interviews" on people after the fact to determine why they felt they couldn't perform but I doubt anyone would be open and honest about it even if there was something she is doing.

[arvcpl 16]

LikeMinds321 said:

I know ED happens, but in my experience I don't see it as epidemic. And for you to have so few non-ED play experiences that you can count them on one hand, I have to think it has something to do with how you and your wife are swinging and your choice of play partners.

 

Just to clarify the count on one hand comment. What I meant by that was the number of times that every man in the room performed flawlessly could be counted on one hand. There have been a good number of times that there may have been some trouble at some point but people still did eventually get the job done. I have had that happen a couple times myself.

 

I did not mean that there was a total failure that many times.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

arvcpl said:

I'm not sure if you are taking offense to my gym rat and marathon comments or not. My point to mentioning that is that some (but certainly not all) of the men that this has happened with are people that are fit and healthy and take care of themselves.

 

I was using your terms only to make a point, which is, maybe your wife should try something different.

 

My suggestion would have been the same no matter how you described the men your wife chooses; try something different.

 

Maybe she could consider more guys like you, "an average looking at best guy," and she'd have more fun.

[IvoryTowers 380]

LikeMinds321 said:

I was using your terms only to make a point, which is, maybe your wife should try something different.

 

My suggestion would have been the same no matter how you described the men your wife chooses; try something different.

 

Maybe she could consider more guys like you, "an average looking at best guy," and she'd have more fun.

 

I don't see the problem here as based in Mrs. Avrcpl not being attracted to the men or the men not being attracted to her. From what's described, it seems that there has just been a string of bad luck.

 

And maybe we're unusual, but we've had the same sorts of issues--not that men can't get hard at all (that has happened, but rarely), but that the men take a long time to get hard. I still maintain this is more about the situation and the condom than it is about levels of attraction, so I don't see that anything needs to be or can be "fixed" if the woman is doing her part (which here it seems clear she is).

[JustMrJ 178]

I have not completely read this entire thread, so forgive me if this has been mentioned.

 

I had some of the aforementioned "Swingers ED" for quite a while. I'm finding that it is rapidly disappearing. I believe this can be attributed to my comfort level with those we play with. Most of the women I play with are ones I know from past play and this makes me MUCH more comfortable. Knowing what they like, dislike and expect of MY performance.

 

It may seem trivial, but eventually, I hope to have this same performance level with those I have not yet played with.

 

It's not so much embarrassing for me as disheartening since I do wish to perform and please these women. Yes, I enjoy it too, but they are my focus when playing.

 

Cheers!

[LOL_OMG 130]

IMO the answer for a majority of these problems(not all) is simpler than most are making it out to be. Swinging is like dating squared, 4 people trying to find common sexual ground compared to 2. Getting a bit comfortable with the other person makes a world of difference and usually that is difficult to accomplish on the first and sometimes even second encounter. Most people seem to give up after one meeting that doesn't go the way they imagine it should. My advice would be if you like the other couple, then give it at least two more attempts, if the problem persists then move on or move them to the non-swinging friends catagory if they accept that.

 

Mr. Lol

[lookingfornow 116]

We have had both types of experiences--ones where the other Mr. had some difficulties with my Mrs. and ones where I have had some performance problems with the other Mrs. Almost all of the experiences have been in first meeting situations. I chalk my own experiences (there have been more than one) to performance anxiety and stress.

 

I am not ashamed or afraid to admit that I find it a bit stressful (and very exciting) to be with a new partner for the first time. So, I am prone to either lose the erection (particularly with a condom) or fire off too quickly (particularly without a condom).

 

This used to bother me quite a bit. I was extremely intimidated by the posts on this and other boards of guys claiming to go at it for hours on end. But, as we have had more experiences, we have found that a greater number of the other males also have performance issues first time out of the box. So, I feel that I am very much more the norm than the exception. That being said, I am in awe of anyone who can honestly claim that they have been swinging for any significant period of time and never had difficulty obtaining, maintaining, and controlling their erection.

 

In my case, I have been somewhat adversely influenced by my Mrs. who has always wanted short but intense intercourse sessions such that I have never been encouraged to hold off on my own climax. This is a skill that I have only just started to develop since we started swinging.

 

It has been our experience that erection issues are more prone to affect older men than younger (no surprise here). And, while we are a full swap couple and the Mrs. much prefers to be pleasured by intercourse than by any other means, we have started to expect that first meetings will be less than optimum (physically) in most instances. If we like a couple socially, we tend to overlook performance issues at least for the first few meetings.

 

Unfortunately, we have very limited time for play. So, it often takes us months to set up second meetings. Sometimes, couples who we really like and really want to get together with again, misinterpret our unavailability as disinterest, which has been sad. However, in our judgment and experience, no one should judge a male on the basis of his performance first time out.

[rickmccool 23]

I hear Pfizer is now coming out with a liquid form of Viagra and Pepsi is going to mix it in one of their drinks. You' ll literally be able to pour yourself a 'stiff' one. Since it can't be classified as a 'soft' drink they're going to market it as a power cola and call it 'Mount & Do'. Gives new meaning to the term 'cock'tails and hi'balls'.

[bill&sabrina 22]

Sabrina and I have been together for 12 years now. We wouldn't have lasted 12 weeks if sexual performance issues weren't looked at from a mature perspective. We didn't know a thing about what the other liked, and were lousy together at first. Spending the rest of my life with her was a thought, but that was down the road, I wanted sex. Turning bad sex into good sex was a better option than no sex. I think we own more of the responsibility of making sure we have a good time than a playmate.

[joaninla 162]

This many have been mentioned in one of the replys - I didn't look over all of them. I have been now with two different men that got help and great results from the Boston Medical Group. They have offices in major U.S. cities, and I do not work for them, do not have stock in the company, or any other motive. I'm sure they have a web site.

[silentdub 46]

Is it really ED, or just nerves.

 

I read an article how they were casting for a 'gang bang' porn movie and like 70% of the guys that showed up couldn't perform. They didn't have ED per say, but I guess it was just nerves.

[twohots4u2 188]

Hey folks, be nice! One female friend told me the women have it made. They are always ready for sex, their hole never closes, and if they are dry, just use lube. She said the men are the ones that have the challenge, they have to get it up in order to have sex. The comments on medical and psycholigical ED is very true. I have had occasions with each. Fortunately, the pills (I like Celice best) and trimix shots are available from most doctors. Celice is fast acting and lasts more than a day. But, even with Celice psycholigical ED can still happen. But, the trimix shots are fast acting and they give a non stop erection for 3 hours.

 

So, when you encounter a guy who cannot get it up at the right time, be nice, don't blame him, and pass the info to him so next time he will not have the problem. He will probably be very grateful.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,023]

Hey folks, be nice! One female friend told me the women have it made.

OK, we'll be nice.

 

Women have it made? I've been told that while men occasionally suffer a failure to launch, they never have to deal with the once-every-lunar-month visitor or take precautions about becoming pregnant.

[ALilOEverything 901]

This is having a serious impact on our enjoyment of the lifestyle. In a couple years of swinging we could probably count on one hand the number of times that someone did NOT have some kind of performance problem. Many of these are healthy and vigorous guys that claim to have never had any problems outside of the lifestyle and I believe most of their sincerity. My wife is getting frustrated to the point that it is having a very detrimental effect on her enjoyment of the lifestyle and she cannot help but taking it personally thinking that she is not attractive or desirable.

 

I can really relate to this right now. When I was in the lifestyle before it was about a 50% failure rate, right now it's about 80%. I'm feeling so discouraged and it's hard to not take it personally. Last night I really took it hard and it was all I could to not let it show and I failed at that. We've tried different ages, different levels of experience, different types of people. Each of the guys have a different excuse. I've tried different types of stimulation (kissing, oral, soft touch) and also tried no stimulation at all to reduce the pressure perform. Last night I said "just tell me what you would like me to do" in a soft gentle whisper in his ear and he gave me direction and after a half an hour it finally worked- briefly. There was tons of foreplay prior to all this. I started to feel like I was going to crack under the pressure and just gave up. I wanted out of the room so bad, I actually felt like crying. I called over to my husband who was already in the middle of round 2 to come over and hold me. I told everyone I was done and I had to be upfront about it because I couldn't bare to let it continue. I could see the disappointment their faces (not my husband) and I could see the husband felt crushed. They are experienced in the lifestyle and this is the first time it's ever happened. This was our second time playing, the first time was just soft as I was broke. I can't help but think there is something wrong with me.

 

Once I was told I was intimidating, I might have to explore that some more. I seriously don't know what can be intimidating but it has to be something with me because we've tried so many different things. Younger, older, more experience, less experience, repeat performances. Three times is my limit in trying though because it really becomes stressful. I think my skills are at least average, I'm not the best but I think I still do a nice job. I think I can be very seductive, the look in their eyes is of such excitement they don't know what to do with themselves. Their words, eyes, body language tells me they really really want me, but one part of their body just isn't cooperating. When I was dating and having one on one sex this NEVER EVER happened to me.

 

It was nice to find this thread and see couples who could relate.

[it'sso 198]

OK, we'll be nice.

 

Women have it made? I've been told that while men occasionally suffer a failure to launch, they never have to deal with the once-every-lunar-month visitor or take precautions about becoming pregnant.

 

If you approach these issues from the perspective of a single man, he best be concerned with all of the above or he won't remain single for long.

[crazinred 36]

ALilOEverything said:

I can really relate to this right now. When I was in the lifestyle before it was about a 50% failure rate, right now it's about 80%. I'm feeling so discouraged and it's hard to not take it personally. Last night I really took it hard and it was all I could to not let it show and I failed at that. We've tried different ages, different levels of experience, different types of people. Each of the guys have a different excuse. I've tried different types of stimulation (kissing, oral, soft touch) and also tried no stimulation at all to reduce the pressure perform. Last night I said "just tell me what you would like me to do" in a soft gentle whisper in his ear and he gave me direction and after a half an hour it finally worked- briefly. There was tons of foreplay prior to all this. I started to feel like I was going to crack under the pressure and just gave up. I wanted out of the room so bad, I actually felt like crying. I called over to my husband who was already in the middle of round 2 to come over and hold me. I told everyone I was done and I had to be upfront about it because I couldn't bare to let it continue. I could see the disappointment their faces (not my husband) and I could see the husband felt crushed. They are experienced in the lifestyle and this is the first time it's ever happened. This was our second time playing, the first time was just soft as I was broke. I can't help but think there is something wrong with me.

 

Once I was told I was intimidating, I might have to explore that some more. I seriously don't know what can be intimidating but it has to be something with me because we've tried so many different things. Younger, older, more experience, less experience, repeat performances. Three times is my limit in trying though because it really becomes stressful. I think my skills are at least average, I'm not the best but I think I still do a nice job. I think I can be very seductive, the look in their eyes is of such excitement they don't know what to do with themselves. Their words, eyes, body language tells me they really really want me, but one part of their body just isn't cooperating. When I was dating and having one on one sex this NEVER EVER happened to me.

 

It was nice to find this thread and see couples who could relate.

 

We had a situation similar but opposite to this several weeks ago. I have medical ED I cannot get a erection without trimix injection and even then it doesn't always work. Well at a new club in our area we found another nice couple to play with after clubs games had ended. We where honest with the other couple that I couldn't get a erection and would do all I could for her. I have already made her cum several times during the games that night. Well once in a room we played with our own mate for a few minutes and then I said lets swap. Well I was having great time with my new partner but Red was having no luck getting her playmate hard and he was giving very little attention to her. After trying all the tricks she knew still no luck. He had a few to many that night so that didn't help any either. I excused myself to go to bathroom and Red told him it was time to go down and do something for her. Well by time I got back Red was working on the other lady and the guy was just laying off to the side of the bed watching. Well I was lucky and the injection did work but by this point the other couple knew things weren't working and excused themselves.

 

We play mostly with single men and occasional single female as we enjoy working together. We do stay away from people that have had to much to drink. We have found the couple thing does turn into a distraction most of the time.

 

Our main thing is we are up front with my problem and I have become very good with my mouth and hands to hopefully give the lady the pleasure she so deserves when the injection doesn't work.

[ALilOEverything 901]

Our main thing is we are up front with my problem

 

I think it's great that you're upfront and you found what situations work for you as a couple. I think I'm really feeling down it today because I went in with the expectation that it was really going to happen and it didn't. I know better than to go with any expectations. I'm okay usually if it doesn't happen, but he made me feel bad for not wanting to try harder. I tried my hardest and then I felt discouraged and couldn't bare to keep going.

 

We might try a single female for the first time. There is one who's really interested in us and we've met a couple times at parties and it seems like a good match.That will take out some of the pressure for me for next time. We've never really been interested in single females before but I suppose if she falls in our lap who are we to say no