Why do bisexual swinging males feel that they must hide their sexuality?

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I'm reading "Happy Swinging" by Sue Gould and so far this is a really great book and it has one of the best bits on male homosexuality that I have seen. I could be mistaken but I get the feeling that much of this book was taken from editorials that she wrote for various swinger magazines. In this particular case, not only did she include her thoughts on male bisexuality but also several letters in reply to her editorial on the subject.

 

There were a few things that struck me, things I hadn't really considered before so I thought I would bring them up here:

 

1. Males avoid homosexuality out of competitiveness "Alpha Male theory". Basically, they are all fighting for the women and to be the dominant man... but if two guys hook up one of them has to give up dominance. Since women are not as competitive it is ok for them to have sex together.

 

I don't know about you, but from what I've seen women are just as competitive as men... so I'm not sure how much I can agree with that theory.

 

2. Machismo- the pressure to not be feminine - Since no one wants to feel insecure and femininity in males is typically looked down upon, males shun the idea of bisexuality (or keep it hidden in the closet) because they don't want to be looked down upon by others.

 

I can buy this latter idea much better. It seems that it is becoming more and more common to see men who will admit to being bisexual in the right situation or to certain people, but aren't likely to do so publicly.... could it be that they simply fear the rejection of others if they do so?

 

We say that clubs do not allow male bisexuality because that is what the majority of their patrons want, but is that really true? Or is it for the same reason, is it that they fear what people will think if they allow it? Will they suddenly start to draw too much of the gay crowd that perhaps is looking for a place to play as well? If that happens, you can only imagine that the bulk of their swinger crowd (straight and bi) may disappear for suddenly feeling like they don't quite fit in anymore.

 

Another thing that I found most interesting (and it may have been by her choice of what to include) but all of the letters she included in reply to her editorial were from men who admitted to being bi to some degree or another, most would be what we have recently "labeled" here as "situationally bi"... go figure.

 

Could it be that the answer to the shunning of male bisexuality is that the bisexual males just need to come out of the closet and stop worrying about what others think?

[IvoryTowers 380]

Mrs. Ivory here. I think a large part of the supposed lack of male bisexuality is simply cultural. Modern American culture sees male homosexuality as problematic as best and bisexuality as just "homos who aren't even brave enough to be homo."

 

But if you look at other cultures, male bisexuality is common. One is ancient Greece, where boys were expected to be lovers to older men, who would mentor them as well as have sex with them. A strictly segregated society, male ancient Greeks would spend the majority of their time with other men and didn't value interactions with women. Yet most of these men had wives and children. Some probably didn't like sex with men as much as with women, and others vice versa. But it was a norm and everyone accepted it.

 

Sexuality is much more fluid than people think. Yes, some kinks are desires are hardwired, but people can learn to like and even love things if they have a strong enough reason to do so. In the same way, people will shun certain sexual acts (unless they are strongly drawn to them) if there is a huge social and/or intimate penalty attached.

[Chicup 41]

Mrs. Ivory here. I think a large part of the supposed lack of male bisexuality is simply cultural. Modern American culture sees male homosexuality as problematic as best and bisexuality as just "homos who aren't even brave enough to be homo."

 

But if you look at other cultures, male bisexuality is common. One is ancient Greece, where boys were expected to be lovers to older men, who would mentor them as well as have sex with them. A strictly segregated society, male ancient Greeks would spend the majority of their time with other men and didn't value interactions with women. Yet most of these men had wives and children. Some probably didn't like sex with men as much as with women, and others vice versa. But it was a norm and everyone accepted it.

 

Sexuality is much more fluid than people think. Yes, some kinks are desires are hardwired, but people can learn to like and even love things if they have a strong enough reason to do so. In the same way, people will shun certain sexual acts (unless they are strongly drawn to them) if there is a huge social and/or intimate penalty attached.

 

Odds are when you go back 2000 years for a different example, you are stretching it a bit.

 

Interestingly while people bring up the Greeks and Romans of being accepting of male homosexuality, female homosexuality was shunned in both societies.

 

The Romans also based male homosexuality acceptance on who it was with. Roman + slave = good, Roman + Roman = bad. The Romans also condemned the practice of male pedophilia as something done by the girly Greeks. Romans could go to jail for having sex with other Romans if it was a homosexual act. Also the Roman had to be the 'top'. This puts male homosexuality as acceptable from a dominance stand point, but not the act for the acts sake.

 

Even with the effeminate greeks (according to the Romans) real numbers are hard to come by.

 

For all the complaints, male homosexuality is accepted in the West now, even in the US. For a long time my neighbors were a homosexual couple, and oddly no one came for them. I think we are prone to over emphasize the negative when the vast majority of homosexuals and bisexuals live their lives without incident.

 

But to the concept of the OP.

 

I think male bisexuality in swinging is much more common than is represented and less common than many male bisexuals claim. Its not about acceptance for us, but what makes it sexy for us. Men doing men just isn't sexy for my wife, myself, and at least some of the swinging couples we know, so while I don't care what they do where I can't see, if it were in the open we just wouldn't go to that club.

 

Modern American culture sees male homosexuality as problematic as best and bisexuality as just "homos who aren't even brave enough to be homo."

 

Actually there IS research to support this. I don't know how valid it is, its rather difficult to study, but I'd say at least SOME male bisexuals are homo's not brave enough to be homo.

 

I can only speak for myself in that I've never had a bisexual encounter. It was interesting to me when I took a 'rate your sexuality' quiz recently. It asked about homosexual dreams and I've never had one, though I've often dreamed of heterosexual acts. I think if I had any latent bisexuality hiding in me, I'd at least have had a dream or two about it.

[The Fuse 1,012]

Actually there IS research to support this. I don't know how valid it is, its rather difficult to study, but I'd say at least SOME male bisexuals are homo's not brave enough to be homo.

I don't have a problem believing this. On the flip side, many of us know female "bisexuals" who seem to be far enough toward the lesbian end of the continuum, that it makes one question whether they are really lesbians with just a shred of hetero thrown in. I can understand the motivations of people who are really gays and lesbians but eke out enough attraction to the opposite sex to get married and make it work, as long as they can also express their same-sex desires.

 

As for not being "brave" enough, I try not to judge them. I haven't walked in their shoes. It must be extremely difficult to always feel that who you are flies in the face of what is accepted by society. Not just a hobby, not just a lifestyle, but who you are. I'm sure it must be appealing on some levels to try to have a "normal" life so you can be accepted and have security, a family, a shield.

 

Having said that, I'll share my opinion on why male homosexuality is shunned in swinging, or at least the reasons why I would not personally encourage it within swinging. I think gays and lesbians ought to be able to love and marry just like everyone else. But in swinging, I will say these two very un-PC things:

 

One, male homosexuality lends itself to relatively quick and casual sex, even compared to heterosexual swingers . It's one of the differences between men and women. I personally would be afraid that if it were to become more accepted within swinging, it would become a large enough component of the lifestyle that it would start to push aside the parts of it that I enjoy. There, I said it. I would rather male homosexuality flourish in other venues. I am in swinging for heterosexual sex, and I already feel like I have to wade through the girl-on-girl stuff to get to what I'm interested in.

 

Two, and I'll probably get flamed for this, I believe man-on-man sex has a higher incidence of transmission of disease. This is because anal sex is a bigger component of sex between two men than it is between two people of any other gender combination, and the effect is multiplied by #1.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Actually there IS research to support this. I don't know how valid it is, its rather difficult to study, but I'd say at least SOME male bisexuals are homo's not brave enough to be homo.

 

Interesting. Actually, one of the letters responding to Sue Gould's editorial on the subject that brought up that very concept.

Over the years I have met men who called themselves bisexual, but in reality most have been closet gays who play the role of being straight and maintain straight lifestyles as their covers.

 

of course, he goes on to say that he has not interest in self-proclaimed bisexuals or avowed homosexuals. He was a "soft-bisexual" basically equal to our "situationally bi"... if the right guy came along at the right time and the stars aligned properly.

[Malachista 170]

@Chicup and Fuse: If you would see m/m play in the open in any club/party (just like you have to accept f/f everywhere even if you don't find it erotic) would you just stop to swing?

[The Fuse 1,012]

@Chicup and Fuse: If you would see m/m play in the open in any club/party (just like you have to accept f/f everywhere even if you don't find it erotic) would you just stop to swing?

By "stop to swing" I am assuming you mean "stop swinging". The answer is, of course not. I think my post made it clear that I support male homosexuality. I might even stop to watch. But knowing that a man were bisexual would make it much less likely that I would want to have sex with him, for reasons I think were also clear in my post.

[NakedInSeattle 159]

I feel the reason bisexual males feel they need to hide it is not due to any feelings of their own but the feelings of the rest of society. I include the swinging community in this as well...not much difference.

 

As I've stated before, it's more socially accepted for a guy to be gay than it is for him to be bi. I live in a very liberal, in many regards, city and know many artists (who are historically the most sexually liberal of all). I can say confidently that most of these fine folks would be horrified to know I am bi. I overheard a conversation one time that went like this - "I can certainly understand hetero and I can understand gay but I can't understand bi at all. It should be either one way or the other - not both."

 

And I won't bother going into the "double standard" with regard to female bisexuality being so well tolerated - nay, enjoyed in the swinging community. This has been bantered about enough.

 

So - bottom line - it ain't me that's the problem, it's them.

[Malachista 170]

By "stop to swing" I am assuming you mean "stop swinging". The answer is, of course not. I think my post made it clear that I support male homosexuality. I might even stop to watch. But knowing that a man were bisexual would make it much less likely that I would want to have sex with him, for reasons I think were also clear in my post.

 

Sorry, I guess it was more a question for chicup then.

"I would not go somewhere where I have to see M/M" is making a double standart of the situation again.

There are people who don't want to see F/F but they just have to accept and ignore it, because nobody thinks about not allowing it "in the open*

[Chicup 41]

@Chicup and Fuse: If you would see m/m play in the open in any club/party (just like you have to accept f/f everywhere even if you don't find it erotic) would you just stop to swing?

 

We would stop going to that club, simple as that. If suddenly every club had it, then we would stop going to clubs all together. As most of our swinging experiences have not been at clubs, it wouldn't be that much of an issue.

[Chicup 41]

Why do bisexual males feel the need to hide their sexuality?

 

Well in swinging it is obvious.

 

They want to fuck my wife.

 

Its hiding what they are in order to be more attractive to couples. We don't play with bisexual males, part of what fuse said with disease, and just part 'eww' factor. This is totally Mrs. Chicup's decision, she finds it very unappealing even though she is bi. I know we are not alone in feeling this way in the life style.

 

Now while Mrs. Chicup is bi, its like 85% straight 15% bi, she would rather play with most males than most females. Listing her as bi or bi comfortable doesn't limit our chances with straight couples.

 

I'm willing to bet that as soon as you put 'bisexual' in a profile as a male, or as soon as you say 'Well I'm not opposed to giving a guy a bj' at a club, you will almost exclusively be approached by those looking for MM style play.

 

Unless you are a 'bi furious' male this will really limit your swinging options.

 

So you play it safe, call yourself straight, maybe use the 'hes very open minded' profile line, maybe not, and play it always by ear, never bringing it up unless you are near certain it will be received well.

[good times 991]

I agree with Chicup regarding the reasons men would hide the fact that they are bi.

 

I would like to add though that it is interesting to me that most people here would assume that a woman listing herself as bi in her profile would not hinder their chances of hooking up with a straight/straight couple. I do not believe that this is 100% true, at least I am sure it is not for us, as we have often declined an invite to get together because, upon reading the profile, we got the impression that the woman was more bi than we were comfortable with.

 

I think that realization by couples with a bi-female is why I see a lot more profiles lately with statements like, "she is bi in the right circumstances, but prefers men". For us, if we see a woman in a profile listed as bi, and their first line says something like, "looking for single women and couples", and often has statements like, "she really enjoys the touch of a woman", we are most likely going to decline to meet or play with them.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I think that realization by couples with a bi-female is why I see a lot more profiles lately with statements like, "she is bi in the right circumstances, but prefers men". For us, if we see a woman in a profile listed as bi, and their first line says something like, "looking for single women and couples", and often has statements like, "she really enjoys the touch of a woman", we are most likely going to decline to meet or play with them.

 

I'm bi and we're just as likely to not meet a couple for the same reason. There are times when I'm all about getting with another woman, but for the most part we want to play as a couple and that means everyone playing. When I see profiles like that I pretty much just assume that all they really want is another woman and they'll settle for a couple.

[twoforone100 45]

One agree with fuse and chicup.

 

two As far as bi women go... We are looking for two different things.. We are looking for bi females who play with both.. We are looking for couples for mf mf play and group play mfm and fmf.

[corynlaine 118]

WOW, we're fairly new here and we both registered as bi/bi curious, because neither one of us is interested in straight swapping. To us the idea is to explore options and fantasies that go beyond what the 2 of us could do alone and she isn't interested in gangbangs, So our thought run towards couple/couple and the possible mixes that come from that which include m/m f/f . Anyway you get the idea.

For various reasons we see far more negatives with a 3rd (see #1 in the OP as to why we don't want a mfm for example. I think it's a very real issue and is EXACTLY the attitude we see from single male adds - "I'll Fuck your wife good 'cause you can't" is the gist of virtually every add we've seen from single men) of either sex than a couple so that is why we thought swinging would fit us.

 

 

Now to get this across and for brevity we ID's as bi but neither one of us actually consider ourselves as by because we don't see ourselves emotionally attached to a man or she to a girl. BUT the fantasies we share do involve sexual contact between the same sexes and I find your comments about the limits of mm contact above ridiculously simplified. While it is not something I would do by myself I find the idea of giving oral to a guy or WITH my wife very erotic because I know what it gives her. Likewise with a girl.

 

But reading some of the comments, it makes me have second thoughts that perhaps swinging is a lot more about men trading their wives than people want to admit.

 

The reason I say that is 2 fold)

 

1) has to do with the number of women who ID as bi and as commented often expected to be so (for the men 1st and foremost regardless of how much she actually enjoys it) while at the same time if you look at the thread talking about women's most common fantasies and wants - it involves m/m. The thread is FULL of "yea I would like to see that, but I know he'll never".

 

 

2) for someone who is so turned off etc by this idea (chicop per your post #2) you sure spend a whole lot of time chiming in on the issue. This lead one to at least perceive you as having an agenda.

 

Having said all that each to his, but then why continued comments in these thread and the open hostility??

[Alura 2,774]

When my mixed-race great-grandfather and his family escaped in a snowstorm from the U.S. Cavalry who were "escorting" (actually "forced marching") the Cherokees to the newly established "Indian Territory" they fled into the Ozarks of Northern Arkansas and hid. They were able to stay alive by claiming to not be Indians. This went on until early in the Twentieth Century when they moved on to Oklahoma.

 

Why? Simply because they might well have been killed had folks known they were Cherokee.

 

It has not been that long since homosexuals faced the same problem. Only a few years ago a man was killed (in Colorado?) because he was gay. Unlike killers of Cherokees, who seldom faced any punishment, the perpetrators were punished. Not surprisingly, though, the gay guy remained dead.

 

Perhaps that has some effect on why bisexual men don't announce their leanings.

[Chicup 41]

Alura did you just compare some couples not wanting to play with bi-males to the trail of tears?

 

[Alura 2,774]

Alura did you just compare some couples not wanting to play with bi-males to the trail of tears?

 

 

No, Chicup. I compared the killing of people because of their race to the killing of people because of their sexual leanings. I have no interest in playing with bi-males. I would, however, consider swapping partners with a couple in which the male is bi. Unfortunately, I no longer have a partner to swap. The question is academic.

[Guest rdy46227]

Basically, it's the squick factor.

 

Most persons are not bothered (squicked) seeing two females, but MM play bothers enough that the will actively avoid it. (E.G>posters above who said they'd stop going to a club where they observed said.) Even having a F involved doesn't seem to make a difference to most.

 

Until that changes, men willing to be involved with other men are going to avoid giving offense/provoking a strong reaction in others.

 

CF: mixed black-white couples in public in the 20th century.

[iapr 24]

I don't have any answers as to why bi males feel they need to hide their sexuality but as a trend I have noticed lately is that less of them are hiding. On the hook up sites we are on I have noticed a definate increase in the number of profiles where bi-cur is listed for the male.

 

Even on some profiles where the male is listed as straight the wording of the profile indicates that m/m contact is not out of the question if the mutual interst is there and everyone agrees to it.

 

I suspect this is a trend that will continue. If you look back to swinging 30-40 years ago it was primarily a heterosexual pursuit. Of course f/f contact did occur back then but it was not the obsession that it is today and did not have anywhere near the acceptance in regular society that is does today.

 

As a culture many of the lines dividing heterosexuality and homosexuality are becoming blurred and homosexuality is not the stigma and shame that it was 30 years ago. The closet is becoming less and less crowded as time goes on.

 

That process may be taking place within the lifestyle as well and as time goes on I think we will see more couples and more single males who are admitting that they are open to more than just strictly male-female or fem/fem contact.

[rickmccool 23]

WOW, we're fairly new here and we both registered as bi/bi curious, because neither one of us is interested in straight swapping. To us the idea is to explore options and fantasies that go beyond what the 2 of us could do alone and she isn't interested in gangbangs, So our thought run towards couple/couple and the possible mixes that come from that which include m/m f/f . Anyway you get the idea.

For various reasons we see far more negatives with a 3rd (see #1 in the OP as to why we don't want a mfm for example. I think it's a very real issue and is EXACTLY the attitude we see from single male adds - "I'll Fuck your wife good 'cause you can't" is the gist of virtually every add we've seen from single men) of either sex than a couple so that is why we thought swinging would fit us.

 

 

Now to get this across and for brevity we ID's as bi but neither one of us actually consider ourselves as by because we don't see ourselves emotionally attached to a man or she to a girl. BUT the fantasies we share do involve sexual contact between the same sexes and I find your comments about the limits of mm contact above ridiculously simplified. While it is not something I would do by myself I find the idea of giving oral to a guy or WITH my wife very erotic because I know what it gives her. Likewise with a girl.

 

But reading some of the comments, it makes me have second thoughts that perhaps swinging is a lot more about men trading their wives than people want to admit.

 

The reason I say that is 2 fold)

 

1) has to do with the number of women who ID as bi and as commented often expected to be so (for the men 1st and foremost regardless of how much she actually enjoys it) while at the same time if you look at the thread talking about women's most common fantasies and wants - it involves m/m. The thread is FULL of "yea I would like to see that, but I know he'll never".

 

 

2) for someone who is so turned off etc by this idea (chicop per your post #2) you sure spend a whole lot of time chiming in on the issue. This lead one to at least perceive you as having an agenda.

 

Having said all that each to his, but then why continued comments in these thread and the open hostility??

 

 

Hi corynlaine,

 

Two (or more) both bi couples can have a lot of fun. Clubs may not be the way to go but you don't need clubs. The Internet is bringing more and more bi couples together and there are web sites where you can find couples. Once you find one, they know others who know others etc. and pretty soon you have a network. Good Luck... Rick

 

Oh I forgot. Be honest and play safe.

[SizzleinNC 15]

Is a bi sexual swinging male homosexual??

 

Hmmm lets think about it for a moment. Every one I have talked to was just bi sexual oral, they do not want to kiss the man or be alone with them.

 

If he was a truly bi sexual male, his wife knew about it and approved which they do in swinging. Is he a homosexual.

 

I don't think so! IMPO

[safireblues 106]

It's always funny to me that these hardcore swingers, chicks in group anal bangs, they will turn up their nose at a guy who has sucked a few cocks.

 

"Ooooh, disease!"

 

My husband and I are "oral only" with other people, I've had intercourse with one other man in 8 years...but tell people my husband has sucked few dicks, and hardcore swingers are like "you have aids."

 

Nice.

 

I find more and more, though, that people are open to it.

[Lixxnsuxx 15]

Speaking as a bisexual male, it amazes me how many ads I see that will say str8 couple seeks bi male, bi female etc.. What the heck is that? I never once thought of myself as gay. I am a manly man that likes manly men and womanly women. I have been approached by supposedly str8 couples where the man wanted to blow me and let me do his wife for it. To me that is hypocritical, but I will admit there is a stigma (for some) about m2m sex whereas f2f sex is thought to be acceptable. That thinking reeks of a double standard, but it still exists.

[amid 91]

 

 

Two, and I'll probably get flamed for this, I believe man-on-man sex has a higher incidence of transmission of disease. This is because anal sex is a bigger component of sex between two men than it is between two people of any other gender combination, and the effect is multiplied by #1.

 

This sums it up in a nutshell for us.. as many times as we have "discussed" the fantasy of a little male male oral play (it turns the mrs. on to talk about it) the picture of the bi male engaging in other (anal sex) activities with other bi men who are really homosexuals having casual sex with other homosexual men brings the picture of aids into our fantasy and bursts that bubble.. and this is probably the reason most bi men hide it. They realize the stigmas involving bi males due in part to the dishonest homosexuals posing as bi men. I'm sure there are a few good (read honest) men out there who are truly bi men that have wives but like to engage in a little oral play with a swing partner but we aren't willing to take that chance. We can get a cure for Gonorrhea or Syphilis, Herpes we can live with.. but we aren't increasing the risk of AIDS.

[JTcamp05 9]

One, male homosexuality lends itself to relatively quick and casual sex, even compared to heterosexual swingers . It's one of the differences between men and women. I personally would be afraid that if it were to become more accepted within swinging, it would become a large enough component of the lifestyle that it would start to push aside the parts of it that I enjoy. There, I said it. I would rather male homosexuality flourish in other venues. I am in swinging for heterosexual sex, and I already feel like I have to wade through the girl-on-girl stuff to get to what I'm interested in.

 

No matter what you think about this issue, I think this is very well spoken prospective... I think people can relate to this on many levels.

[unusualsuspects 26]

While I think fear of physical violence is an actual problem in any repressed community, I think that the reason bisexual men hide their identity is because of the double standard that m/m sex vs. f/f sex, and I think that's just a cultural discomfort with guys doin' it.

 

I once heard Dan Savage say that girl/girl is more acceptable because there's "not sex" happening since there's no penis involved. guy/guy, however is too much for people to handle because there are two penises! It was said more of a joke, but it does point out what I think is an unreasonable squeamishness.

 

My wife and I went to an on-premise party (used to be called Pink, held by the folks that do kinky salon) that didn't have a gender rule for admission; you just had to bring a partner and be respectful. Jerks (of all sexes) were shown the door in short order, so it was a very nice environment, and people uncomfortable with the situations would just leave. The folks that stayed played with whom they wanted to and were respectful of people they didn't want to play with.

 

While I prefer this style to the women-and-couples-only party they also hold at the same location (club kiss) I know I'm in the minority.

 

Now, the moral of this story, is that there are different styles of swinging, and in some places and boards and forums there are people that don't need to hide their identity, but I think the majority case is one that does want their sex primarily heterosexual, and bi men don't want to limit their pool by saying they are bi.

 

Is this really any different than female partners who say they are bi-"curious" so as not to limit their pool as a couple? Or as the couples that really just want a female but will cruise couples? Is it all just weighing being true to yourself vs. marketing?

[Looking4uwithus 16]

For both of us its all about whats appealing. It is the thought of two muscle men with hairy bodies (chests, legs, etc) being intimate with each other in any way sounds so eeewwwww.

 

But two long haired soft silky tanned curvy hairless women licking and kissing each other sounds like such a beautiful sight.

[JandY 61]

Maybe this is not really relevant to this topic but, while we don't have an open relationship, we do often use seperate rooms. This first happened when the four of us were being "active" in the lounge and I went for a pee. I didn't lock or even close the door and I heard a noise behind me as his wife entered the shower. As I finished, she opened the shower door and asked me to wash her back.

 

One thing led to another and after we were both clean, we grabbed a towel to dry ourselves and left the bathroom to rejoin the others.

 

As we approached the bedroom, we could hear them making out and took a peek at them. They were away with the fairy's, so my swing partner grabbed my hand and guided me into the spare bedroom where we enjoyed some privacy until we heard my wife and her husband go for a shower.

 

As they passed, they called for us to join them if we wanted but the shower was only big enough for 3, so we guys took turn cleaning and being cleaned by the two girls.

 

Nothing was said about it. Since then, when we are together, we often split up - even if it's only at opposite ends of the same room.

 

It's good to be able to concentrate all your attention on just one other, sometimes.

 

It's also good to sometimes take a time-out and watch the other 3 together.

 

If only the girls would come round to letting us guys take a shower alone, things would be even better, but that's the problem.

 

The girls enjoy playing together and seem to get a great deal of pleasure from their same-sex action, but we guys haven't even raised the subject because in chatting, both girls have said how "ucky" the idea of male-male sex is. Even going so far as to suggest it would threaten, if not totally destroy a relationship as they consider any kind of male-male sexual intimacy as being outright "gay".

 

We guys have discussed this and it is their attitudes that make us supress it although we think it's unfair that we would be labelled as "gay" whereas the girls are "not gay" just broad-minded and experimental, from their point of view.