Swapping with a single outside the lifestyle

[Lovemates28 30]

My husband met this girl through work and became friends with her. One thing led to another (with my knowledge and permission, of course) and they have been playing on the side for a few months now.

 

Here's the kicker. She's terrified of me. I trust that my husband hasn't been telling her bad things about me behind my back, but she's just terrified of meeting her lovers wife. For example, I went to meet my husband for lunch at his work one day. My husband mentioned to this girl that I was coming and she freaked out and hid the entire time I was at his work, just so we won't run into each other or even pass each other in a hallway. Ridiculous!

 

Even worse, my husband got invited to her birthday party. But when he mentioned that he would be bringing me with him (since he doesn't know any of her friends), she uninvited him! After much back and forth, she decided to compromise with him. She would tell him where they were going, so we could "happen" to be there and run into them, but we still weren't technically invited. So for dinner, she wants us to be in the same restaurant, but she's not going to invite us to sit at her table! This seems absolutely, insanely stupid to me.

 

It's obvious she doesn't understand how this lifestyle works. She's treating the entire situation as if they are going around behind my back, even though my husband tells me what goes on with them. And the fact that she's so terrified of meeting me, even though she knows nothing about me, makes me wonder what she's feeling so guilty about. I don't want to be standing in the bedroom when they're going at it, I just don't want to feel like I'm completely outside the situation!

 

I realize that an easy solution to this problem would be to just have my husband stop having sex with her. But it would be such a shame because they are good friends and they have good chemistry. Another option would be an ultimatim, either meet the wife or no more sex with the husband. But I can't see how any meeting so forced like that could have any kind of positive results! So, does anyone have other advice for this situation?

 

Also, what kind of experience have you had with singles that are outside the lifestyle? Is it possible for them to understand? Have you had good experiences? Bad ones that you can share what went wrong?

 

Thanks in advanced everyone!

[IvoryTowers 380]

Call her and invite her out to lunch. I think if you want this to work you need to stop going through your husband and make contact yourself. If she won't go out to lunch with you, then your husband should call it off. If she will, pick a nice public place where she'll feel safe and calmly tell her what's up with your life and how she fits into it.

[rpu3 630]

Wow....

 

I am in an open marriage. Our deal is that I am introduced to his friends if he thinks it's going somewhere.

 

The Spousal Unit does make it explicitly clear about his marital status. He also makes it clear that I may very likely want to meet them. I have asked to meet three of his friends. Not one of them balked, at least not to MY face. It's a tad awkward, but we've all managed to live and it really makes things more comfortable for everyone, and is a very vivid reminder that this is an open marriage, I do exist, I'm not going anywhere in the foreseeable future and neither is The Spousal Unit and this is how we handle things - can you (the other woman) accept this arrangement?

 

Honestly, if any of them balk at that, then that's a big clue for both me and The Spousal Unit that this may not be a workable arrangmenet with that person. Sometimes that's how it plays out.

 

I personally WOULD put my foot down and force the issue. There could be the positive result that she meets you and she finally "gets" it and chills the heck out. Or else both of you may find that her intents and goals regarding her relationship with your husband do not fit within your boundaries. I realize that this may not be a good option for you. In my case, something smells off in your situation, and I would not tolerate that from a friend of my husband's in my situation. I don't know what the heck is wrong with a cup of coffee, drinks or lunch between the three of you.

[iapr 24]

And this doesn't bother you?

 

This isn't swinging and this isn't polyamory and it isn't really even cheating because technically you are aware of it and aren't actively protesting. The only way I can describe this is it is a sanctioned affair. They are having an affair in every sense of the word, the only difference is you know about it and have thus far approaved it. I just want to know why you have approaved of it and let it go on like this for so long.

 

He is definately having his cake and eating it too and I think you have a good point when you ask what is in it for you. The way I see it, there isn't really anything in it for you. You are just loaning out your husband to someone who isn't even appreciative or providing you with anything in return.

 

Regardless of what has or has not been said to her, she obviously believes that he and her are having an affair and she is ashamed of it and does not want you or any of her freinds to know about it. This is just a dirty little secret to her.

 

This is a problem and it is not a swinger issue as this is NOT swinging. Swinging is something a couple does together for their mutual enjoyment as a couple. this is just fucking around and boarish behaviour. He is using both of you women for his benifit and each of you is coming out on the short end of the stick.

 

I think his behaviour is poor and that he is taking advantage of both of you. He is telling you that you are swinging and this is some kind of swinging activity and therefor you should sanction it (you should definately NOT!!!) and he is probably telling her that he is in love with her and that he is plotting to leave you so that they can be together.

 

He is lying to both of you. He is telling you that you are swinging and that this is ok and that you should put up with it. And he is lying to her in some way about the nature of all of this. he is either telling her that he is getting ready to leave you or he is telling her that you are so dumb and that he has you so bullshitted that you don't know what is truly going on between them. Either way this is a whole different reality to her than it is to you.

 

Either way this is not swinging it is an affair. You may have been mislead into believing it was swinging, but to the both of them they are conducting themselves as if it were an affair.

 

Words mean nothing, actions mean everything. Just take a hard look at their actions.

 

I am sorry this is happening to you and I wish you the best.

[BiloxiCouple 695]

And you haven't talked to her to find out what your husband is ACTUALLY telling her? There may actually be a reason she is terrified to meet you.

 

When something doesn't sound right it probably isn't. This doesn't sound right.

 

There are alot of things going wrong with this situation and the "girlfriend" should not carry all the blame. In fact she has very little of it, if any.

 

Unless you and your husband fix how both of you are handling this situation then:violin:

[IvoryTowers 380]

This isn't swinging and this isn't polyamory and it isn't really even cheating because technically you are aware of it and aren't actively protesting. The only way I can describe this is it is a sanctioned affair....

 

He is definately having his cake and eating it too and I think you have a good point when you ask what is in it for you. The way I see it, there isn't really anything in it for you.

 

I disagree. First of all, one partner in a couple having a second relationship with the full knowledge and support of the other partner is, in fact, the definition of polyamory! And there are enough people on this board who have solo sex that I think it could be called swinging (although I do recognize that most swingers play together).

 

Second, the OP didn't ask what was "in it" for her. She seems perfectly happy to allow her husband to have relationships outside their marriage without going all tit for tat on him. Maybe she has her own secondary relationship. Maybe they play together and that's enough for her. Or maybe she's a monogamous person who accepts and supports her husband's desire for variety. It does happen.

 

If she had expressed any unhappiness with the situation itself, I would have made different suggestions, but she seems to only care that this woman can't face meeting her. If the woman was willing to meet the wife and comfortable with that, would you still consider it fucking around, using both women, and boorish behavior?

[PB&J 1,086]

It doesn't sound like polyamory to me, because IMHO polyamory would imply some sort of relationship, if only that of friendly co-existence, between the two women. While the OP is up for that, obviously the co-worker is not. I think that the basic problem is that co-worker does not understand the concept of open marriage. So she's looking for the something different from this relationship than the OP (and hopefully her husband) expect it to be. If she can't wrap her head around it, there will be tears, sooner or later. For her own sake, she'd be better off out of it if she's not going to be comfortable with it.

[iapr 24]

I disagree. First of all, one partner in a couple having a second relationship with the full knowledge and support of the other partner is, in fact, the definition of polyamory! And there are enough people on this board who have solo sex that I think it could be called swinging (although I do recognize that most swingers play together).

 

Second, the OP didn't ask what was "in it" for her. She seems perfectly happy to allow her husband to have relationships outside their marriage without going all tit for tat on him. Maybe she has her own secondary relationship. Maybe they play together and that's enough for her. Or maybe she's a monogamous person who accepts and supports her husband's desire for variety. It does happen.

 

If she had expressed any unhappiness with the situation itself, I would have made different suggestions, but she seems to only care that this woman can't face meeting her. If the woman was willing to meet the wife and comfortable with that, would you still consider it fucking around, using both women, and boorish behavior?

 

The last post that the OP made on this board was approx 21/2 years ago. If nothing else the fact that this situation has caused her to come back and post a heartfelt question like this leads me to believe she is not "perfectly happy" with this situation. If if were not causing her a degree of distress we would not have ever heard about it.

 

As far as your last question, if the OP and the other had some form of relationship and acknowledgement and everyone was good with it, then no I would not consider it fucking around or exploitive boorish behavior. At that point it would be consenting adults with informed consent and agreement by all. That is not occuring here.

 

If you smell something fishy the chances are there are some smelly fish nearby and this whole situation definately smells fishy.

[slevin 1,374]

I actually wonder if this chick isn't secretly hoping that your husband will leave you for her. Or if she just treats him like her boyfriend (even though she knows you're aware of the situation) and meeting you, talking to you etc. will ruin her little fantasy situation. Hard to say without knowing more about the situation, but that was the first thing that popped into my mind.

 

It is definitely bothering you and this is something that you need to talk to your husband about. Be candid, let him know that the relationship doesn't bother you, but that the fact she won't meet you hurts. That you are happy for him to have a relationship with her or someone else, but that you want to at least be able to meet her, socialize with her and get to know her a bit too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and if your husband gives you any flack about bringing that up then I'd be pissed if I were you and worried that his 'affair' means more to him than his relationship with you. If he immediately takes your concerns into account and wants to do something about it, then no worries.

 

Talk to him!

[MapleCpl 67]

My wife and I are swingers, also in an open relationship. I (male half) have had several relationships with other women with my wife's consent.

Over time, I introduced these women to my wife and we all ended up playing together. There was a single lady who used to sleep over on some weekends, and all 3 of us would end up sleeping together in the basement bedroom so that our kids would NOT hear us going at it.....we told the kids she was a long time friend of my wife who moved to another city and came in to the big city to party every now and then.

Some of those relationships lasted longer than others, but I always made sure to introduce the ladies to my wife, this way her mind would be at ease.

 

Of course, she would always ask all kinds of questions and check them out from top to bottom as she wanted to make sure no lady had any secondary plan to keep me and that I'd leave the home.

I still go to regular Vanilla bars looking for potential girlfriends, then tell them about my marital status and eventually try to bring them into the mix.

It is my opinion that this lady is has secondary plans for the husband and is terrified if the wife found out what those plans are.

 

*****Never met a lady we didn't like******

[Lovemates28 30]

First of all, I do not appreciate the negative comments against my husband. He is not going to leave me for this girl, he is not misleading or lying to me, he is not having an affair, and he is not saying bad things about me behind my back. How do I know this? Because he is my husband and I know him. You do not. Plus, I trust him. If I didn't trust him, we would have a whole other truck load of problems and we wouldn't be swinging. If you think he is doing something inappropriate in this situation, do voice your opinion. But remember that you are speaking about my husband so please try to do so with some respect.

 

I think I am going to go to lunch with my husband again this week and at very least stop in and say hi to this girl and chat. From everything I've heard about her, I think we'll get along well. I think it may just be getting over the initial meet and doing that without living up to the terrifying image she has of "the wife". But my husband has decided that he will not sleep with her until we come to some resolution for the situation, either that I meet her and approve or we make it a permanent "hands off".

 

As for our lifestyle, my husband and I both swing. We've swapped with some couples, which is great, but we've also been with singles on occasion. But this was our first experience with someone not already in the lifestyle to some degree. That's why I was interested in coming on here and asking for advice.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I've been there...

 

I don't think your husband is telling her anything bad or leading her to believe anything that isn't true... unfortunately, I don't think he has to.

 

What I found both when playing solo (in an open marriage) and as a single female is that very often singles (females and males) in the hopes of getting the romantic relationship they really want will tell themselves what they want to hear, regardless of what the person they are having sex with is telling them.

 

When I was single, I reminded the guys I had sex with OFTEN that it was just sex... and if they didn't seem to want to believe that they weren't the only one... I eventually showed them proof.

 

I was in your (husband's) situation in my first marriage. We had an open marriage and I often had guys on the side. One guy in particular I kept trying to get to meet my husband and he just was not comfortable with it. He could not wrap his head around the idea of swinging, and I guess for him it was easier to convince himself I was cheating on my husband than to accept reality. I did finally get him to meet my husband, but then I never saw him again. He just could not accept the reality of the situation.

 

I think that might be what is going on with this girl. The reality is SO FAR outside of her norm and her comfort zone. Cheating is ok, because it's normal and almost accepted in society. It doesn't matter if he's leaving you (or if she's even telling herself that) in her mind that is ok. But, the idea of an open marriage (where you really and truely know everything that is going on) is not ok. She doesn't believe it to be true.

 

The advice someone else gave to call her up and invite her out yourself (or even just talk to her on the phone and say "yes I know, and it's ok, let's be friends is probably good advice. Just understand that it could mean the end for this relationship (with her).

[Guest ic7175]

I wouldn't suggest meeting her unannounced at lunch as she will be at work (if i understood your post). This is probably the place she would be least comfortable meeting you.

 

The suggestion to call and ask for about meeting is best. If she shoots that down you know where she stands and you and your husband can then decide how to handle it.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

First I think you should understand that we don't swing solo/separate in any form. We prefer to not only interact with others, but each other as well, while engaging in sex. Its our thing, and it works for us. However, we do play with singles. So this is my point of view as a married man involved with single women.

My husband met this girl through work and became friends with her. One thing led to another (with my knowledge and permission, of course) and they have been playing on the side for a few months now.

Bad idea !! Why did you decide this was worth it ? I swing, But I need my job. Personally, my employer doesn't care. But I think having swinger sex with a single female under these circumstances would be questionable. I like my job real well.... The single females I have played with, know that....

 

Here's the kicker. She's terrified of me. I trust that my husband hasn't been telling her bad things about me behind my back, but she's just terrified of meeting her lovers wife. For example, I went to meet my husband for lunch at his work one day. My husband mentioned to this girl that I was coming and she freaked out and hid the entire time I was at his work, just so we won't run into each other or even pass each other in a hallway. Ridiculous!

I don't understand... Are you a big woman and she's tiny ?

 

Otherwise, things look misleading somehow to me ?

 

 

 

Even worse, my husband got invited to her birthday party. But when he mentioned that he would be bringing me with him (since he doesn't know any of her friends), she uninvited him! After much back and forth, she decided to compromise with him. She would tell him where they were going, so we could "happen" to be there and run into them, but we still weren't technically invited. So for dinner, she wants us to be in the same restaurant, but she's not going to invite us to sit at her table! This seems absolutely, insanely stupid to me.

I wouldn't want to be at that birthday party. In fact I have to think MR Lovemates needs to be responsible for recourse at this time. I could never put myself in a swinging situation that would jeopardies my wifes character at any table or party in life. Recourse is pretty important, I've learned....

 

It's obvious she doesn't understand how this lifestyle works. She's treating the entire situation as if they are going around behind my back, even though my husband tells me what goes on with them. And the fact that she's so terrified of meeting me, even though she knows nothing about me, makes me wonder what she's feeling so guilty about. I don't want to be standing in the bedroom when they're going at it, I just don't want to feel like I'm completely outside the situation!

I could never be involved with a woman who doesn't understand how and why we play together ? I really think Mr Lovemates, needs to reevaluate this. I would think having to do so through a work venue, really sucks.....

 

Another option would be an ultimatum, either meet the wife or no more sex with the husband. But I can't see how any meeting so forced like that could have any kind of positive results!

I can, but is it worth it ?

[IvoryTowers 380]

I think I am going to go to lunch with my husband again this week and at very least stop in and say hi to this girl and chat. From everything I've heard about her, I think we'll get along well. I think it may just be getting over the initial meet and doing that without living up to the terrifying image she has of "the wife". But my husband has decided that he will not sleep with her until we come to some resolution for the situation, either that I meet her and approve or we make it a permanent "hands off".

 

Good for you and for your husband! I hope the meeting goes well and this woman can wrap her head around an open relationship. But if not, I applaud your husband for stepping back and valuing your comfort and the bond you two have over this relationship.

 

I will say it doesn't speak well for this woman that she seems to believe (despite what she's been told) that she's having a secret affair, but since that is a huge cultural norm I guess she can't be faulted too much.

 

Let us know what happens!

[rpu3 630]

First of all, I do not appreciate the negative comments against my husband. He is not going to leave me for this girl, he is not misleading or lying to me, he is not having an affair, and he is not saying bad things about me behind my back. How do I know this? Because he is my husband and I know him. You do not. Plus, I trust him. If I didn't trust him, we would have a whole other truck load of problems and we wouldn't be swinging. If you think he is doing something inappropriate in this situation, do voice your opinion. But remember that you are speaking about my husband so please try to do so with some respect.

 

Thank you for coming back and being so explicit as to your relationship. I was a bit surprised as to how fast some jumped on the "hubby is at fault" . I personally never saw it that way at all. Perhaps it is a difference in perspective between those of us who actually are in an open marriage or swing solo, and those who do not and will not. It's one thing to ask questions regarding her spouse, but I have to say I was taken aback at some of the characterizations assumed without adequate information. Things ARE different on the solo/open side of the fence, folks, and this post is now in the Open Marriage/Solo forum.

 

... But my husband has decided that he will not sleep with her until we come to some resolution for the situation, either that I meet her and approve or we make it a permanent "hands off".

 

I'm very pleased to read this. You two sound quite realistic and respect each other. Your approach to resolving this issue seems similar to what we've done in the past.

 

I hope you will come back and let us know the outcome. I'm kind of nosy like that!

[Lovemates28 30]

rpu3 and IvoryTowers, thank you so much for your support and listening! You two have been great and I appreciate reading all of your posts. I will definitely come back and let you know how it all goes.

 

And with the lunch thing, it would definitely not be sprung on her or a surprise at all! My husband is planning on letting her know on Monday that I'll be coming by on Wednesday. We're going to kind of play it by ear and see where that leaves us for this weekend.

 

And thanks Julie for your story. It has occurred to both of us that this might be the end of the two of them playing on the side (which we are okay with), but I hadn't quite thought of it the way you pointed out. I appreciate your insight!

[iapr 24]

First of all, I do not appreciate the negative comments against my husband. He is not going to leave me for this girl, he is not misleading or lying to me, he is not having an affair, and he is not saying bad things about me behind my back. How do I know this? Because he is my husband and I know him. You do not. Plus, I trust him. If I didn't trust him, we would have a whole other truck load of problems and we wouldn't be swinging. If you think he is doing something inappropriate in this situation, do voice your opinion. But remember that you are speaking about my husband so please try to do so with some respect.

 

I think I am going to go to lunch with my husband again this week and at very least stop in and say hi to this girl and chat. From everything I've heard about her, I think we'll get along well. I think it may just be getting over the initial meet and doing that without living up to the terrifying image she has of "the wife". But my husband has decided that he will not sleep with her until we come to some resolution for the situation, either that I meet her and approve or we make it a permanent "hands off".

 

As for our lifestyle, my husband and I both swing. We've swapped with some couples, which is great, but we've also been with singles on occasion. But this was our first experience with someone not already in the lifestyle to some degree. That's why I was interested in coming on here and asking for advice.

 

Ok, I'll back off and take your word for it. You are right in that you know him and your marriage better than any of us. All any of us have to go on is what you wrote in your initial post and from there we all have to read between the lines and go with our gut to a certain extent.

 

I will stand by my fish statement though. when you smell fish there is something fishy going on. Now whether that fish smell is coming from him or her or the dynamics of all three of you is up for grabs but as it stands right now this does not make for a healthy swinging situation or poly situation, will you agree with me there?

 

I do agree with those that advise you to keep this out of the work place as much as possible. I realize others have a million times more tolerance for mixing work and pleasure but I would rather stick sharp objects in my before bringing any kind of lifestyle issues into my place of employment.

 

If you are wanting to meet this gal my advice would be to do it outside of the workplace and somewhere completely neutral and nonthreateing like a lounge or restaurant or something.

 

I also think that is an arraingment that should be completely brokered by your husband. I'm not getting digs on him. If I were in his shoes this is what I would want to do to clear my name and show everyone that I am playing fair. If his hands are as clean as you say they are then he should want to clear his name and show both of you ladies that he is sincere and that he is being open and honest with both of you.

 

If he refuses to do it then you have your answer there about his intentions.

 

If he makes a sincere effort to get the three of you to sit down together and she refuses to do it then you have your answer about her.

 

If they both refuse then you have your answer about both of them.

[iapr 24]

I've been there...

 

I don't think your husband is telling her anything bad or leading her to believe anything that isn't true... unfortunately, I don't think he has to.

 

What I found both when playing solo (in an open marriage) and as a single female is that very often singles (females and males) in the hopes of getting the romantic relationship they really want will tell themselves what they want to hear, regardless of what the person they are having sex with is telling them.

 

When I was single, I reminded the guys I had sex with OFTEN that it was just sex... and if they didn't seem to want to believe that they weren't the only one... I eventually showed them proof.

 

I was in your (husband's) situation in my first marriage. We had an open marriage and I often had guys on the side. One guy in particular I kept trying to get to meet my husband and he just was not comfortable with it. He could not wrap his head around the idea of swinging, and I guess for him it was easier to convince himself I was cheating on my husband than to accept reality. I did finally get him to meet my husband, but then I never saw him again. He just could not accept the reality of the situation.

 

I think that might be what is going on with this girl. The reality is SO FAR outside of her norm and her comfort zone. Cheating is ok, because it's normal and almost accepted in society. It doesn't matter if he's leaving you (or if she's even telling herself that) in her mind that is ok. But, the idea of an open marriage (where you really and truely know everything that is going on) is not ok. She doesn't believe it to be true.

 

The advice someone else gave to call her up and invite her out yourself (or even just talk to her on the phone and say "yes I know, and it's ok, let's be friends is probably good advice. Just understand that it could mean the end for this relationship (with her).

 

I think there is a ton of wisdom in what Julie is saying and I don't know if it is a good thing or a bad thing in a situation like this. To many people the whole concept of someone having sex with permission outside of a marriage is unfathomable.

 

It's pretty ironic but I think a lot of people would actually have more success if they were PRETENDING to be cheating as opposed to being upfront and honest about it.

 

I think Julie also has a good point that if you two were to meet and have full disclosure it could be the beginning of the end for your husband and this gals relationship.

 

I think she thinks they are going to end up together whether she is being told that or not. It may be a good bet that once she realizes she is the booty call and in the secondary position AND ALWAYS WILL BE then she will bolt. I don't care how liberal or openminded someone is, women want their own primary relationship and want their partner devoted to them and they don't want to just burrow someone else's now and then on an ongoing basis.

 

the only thing I disagree with on what Julie said is that I think your husband should arrainge and broker you and her meeting. I don't think you should take into your own hands and do it yourself.

 

You are the wife here and you are the one with the vested interest in the sanctity of your marriage. If they are going to have their little play time they both need to be able to look you in the eye and show you that they will honor your interests in this whole thing.

 

(can you tell I am a traditionalist and not a poly?)

 

Ps I'm not really picking on your husband here. I would say the same thing to him if you were the one with the boyfriend and that BF was refusing to meet your husband

[Lovemates28 30]

Thanks iapr for getting back on here and clearing things up. Yes, my husband is making an effort to get us together. I think it's less intimidating for this girl that way anyways. My husband has repeatedly said to both of us that I come first and my needs come first. I also agree with the fish statement, which is why my husband is not going to be sleeping with her until we get things straightened out. I trust my husband and that the stink isn't coming from him. Optimistically, I'm hoping the stink is just this girls unfamiliarity with the swinging/open lifestyle. But I'm also prepared (as is my husband) for a less happy scenario where she does want something inappropriate and in which case, we're stopping things.

 

And as for the work thing, generally I would side with people and say that playing with someone at work is a terrible idea. But this one seems to be working okay. My husband and her don't work together at all (they only met through a chance run-in at the copy machine), they have separate bosses, departments, responsibilities and such. When they're at work, they talk mostly through texting on cell phones unless they go to lunch together. And they don't play at work, they either play during lunch (not extended lunches either) or at her place after work if I have to work late. (My husband won't let her take up "my" time and she understands that.) So while I'm sure there are the average number of rumors going around as there would be any time a male and female co-worker are friends, it seems to be working out fine.

[longtermcouple 12]

My wife and I have been swinging on and off for over 20 years. When my wife left work (laid off) a fellow employee told my wife she has always been his fantasy. She came home and told me and it made our sex lives highly intense for each other for 9 months and then it happened while I was at work. I knew in advance she was going to his house for sex. The friends w/ benefits sex started in Sep 2007 and continues yet in Mar 2009. They have been together sexually 22 times now and it has been wonderful for BOTH of us. I wait at home now when my wife leaves for 2 to 3 hours in his bed and we have "fantastic" sex when she gets back home.

 

Our sex lives are more intense with each other. Our love is stronger even after 36 years of marrriage together. We share our extra sex together. We call our extra marital sex with others "Marriage Enhancement" because it has made our love and marriage more intense and our communication and lives much stronger.

 

Sharing sex with others has saved and made our love and marriage stronger. We have been married 36 years, Involved Catholics, two grown children and are simply a normal, professional, clean, discreet and everyday couple. We simply like having a marriage full of love, enjoyment and the marriage enhancement sharing has brought to us. We don't cheat-we share!

 

Do what is good for the two of you! We did and are both very glad we made this recent move. I am so glad my wife has a friends w/benefits man. I get as much from their shared sex as my wife does! Thanks for making my marriage and sex drive for my wife more intense!!

[LFM2 1,482]

I believe that we all "swing" in our own way. Different scenarios doesn't make it wrong, just different. Sometimes we can understand their way of doing things and sometimes we can't, even though we don't swing that way. I think this may be one of those cases.

 

Putting myself into Mrs. Lovemates shoes. I would definitely want to meet the girl who caught my husbands eye. Nothing more than meet, get to know her a little and kind of understand where the Mr is coming from. I'm still his wife. I think I'd have that right.

 

I'm agreeing more with Julie. When I read the original post, and if I put myself into the 'girl at work' shoes, I'd be petrified to meet "the wife". Will she claw my eyes out for dating her husband? An awkward situation for sure. I'm sure she can't wrap her head around the relationship Mr and Mrs Lovemates has. It would have been foreign to me years ago. I would have hid, too. I think it's just out of her realm of comfort to meet his wife. Does that all make sense?

 

I like Ivory Towers suggestion and ask her to lunch yourself or call her to see if you can meet alone at her choice of location and talk. You know you're not a threat, but she doesn't know that. I'm sure your husband has told her of your wonderful qualities, and that you'd like to meet her, but still, I'd have the oddest feeling meeting "the wife".

[Lovemates28 30]

Update: So I met her and everything was cool. She walked right up to me, with a big genuine smile, looked me straight in the eye and introduced herself. We talked a few times during the night, joked about how we were both glad to be over the whole "first meeting" and by the end of the night, she gave me a big hug goodbye. I wouldn't go so far as to say we're BFF's, but I think she won't be terrified of me anymore. Mr. Lovemates still might wait a bit before jumping back in with her, just until I get a chance to spend some more time talking with her (not when she's hostessing a party). But I'd say the first meet went a lot better that I would have ever thought! I truely expected this to be a nightmare and that to be the end of the two of them. But if things stay cool, I think we'll be back on track! Thanks to everyone for all your thoughts!

[The Fuse 1,012]

Hi there,

 

I hope you'll come back and update us when something else happens.

 

Why do you think she was avoiding you previously? It's great that she was friendly when you did meet, but she was certainly avoiding it before. The fish comment is still relevant. A lot of smart things were said on this thread by several people. You seem to be the kind of person that wants to believe everything is fine. I hope you don't think a friendly smile and a hug means that your husband's girlfriend is suddenly all well adjusted with an accurate understanding of her situation as the secondary.

 

By the way, I understand the motivation of wanting to do something nice for your husband. I don't see it as doing something for this other woman. You care about your husband's happiness and wanted him to have the freedom and the fun. That is sweet and very giving. I would just suggest that you keep a watchful eye on this woman and make sure you really trust not only everything your husband says he tells her, but that she understands her situation.

 

Just one last thing. I don't know how old this lady is, whether she has other boyfriends besides your husband, whether she has any desire to have a relationship "of her own", or how much she likes your husband. But playing the percentages, most single women really are looking for a relationship where they are the primary. Just think about how you'd be viewing things if you were in her shoes, being vanilla and seeing a married man for so long. Don't you think you'd have some thoughts of a future with him?

[rpu3 630]

Update: So I met her and everything was cool. She walked right up to me, with a big genuine smile, looked me straight in the eye and introduced herself. We talked a few times during the night, joked about how we were both glad to be over the whole "first meeting" and by the end of the night, she gave me a big hug goodbye. I wouldn't go so far as to say we're BFF's, but I think she won't be terrified of me anymore. Mr. Lovemates still might wait a bit before jumping back in with her, just until I get a chance to spend some more time talking with her (not when she's hostessing a party). But I'd say the first meet went a lot better that I would have ever thought! I truely expected this to be a nightmare and that to be the end of the two of them. But if things stay cool, I think we'll be back on track! Thanks to everyone for all your thoughts!

 

Thank you very much for posting your update.

 

From the Been There, Done That camp, this is almost exactly how my meetings with The Spousal Unit's friends go down. There's no denying it's an awkward situation, and for your husband's friend, it may not necessarily be "fishy" but just as much as a "I have no idea what this entails or how it's going to go because all I have is my stereotypes of the wronged spouse!". Time will tell as to the "fishiness" of things. There's no rulebook or handbook about the best way to do something that's outside the the box for 95% of the population and talking, watching and waiting is mostly our approach towards my spouse's friends.

 

I'm glad you got the opportunity to meet her. I know there's only so much you can talk about on that first meeting, since it's the most awkward one, but I'm curious as to if you were able to talk frankly yet with her as to her reluctance to meet you, or if not, do you think you'll have an opportunity to discuss it in the future? I'm curious because my meeting of the friend is occasionally a reality-check for my spouse's friends (which is why I occasionally ask to meet them before there's sexual activity), and sometimes it's not something they ultimately could handle. I'm curious as to her reasons for avoiding you and what she took away from your meeting with her?

 

I hope you'll stop back with updates, at least!

[IvoryTowers 380]

Yes, thank you for the update! I hope all continues to go well and I commend your husband for pausing, even with the good first meeting, before sleeping with her again.

 

I wonder if her earlier fear was based on her belief that your husband was spinning a line about open marriages and this was a secret affair. With the internet so available, I could see her, after he repeated himself several times and you made your desire to meet her extremely clear, going on line and finding out about swinging. "Oh" she thinks, lightbulb going off "They really DO have an open marriage and this is a whole different way of thinking about relationships. I'm...well...interested." And thus the happy meeting.

 

But then, I'm ever the optimist about people and want to ascribe good motives until I am forced to ascribe bad.

[WesternSwing 504]

Because we do play separately as well as together and we are open to polyamorous relationships, we have run into this situation with both men and women. Mrs. WS recently had a several month relationship going on with a guy she met at work (she says it's not breaking our "no-coworker" rule because he works for a private contractor to her company ) . He's a really nice guy and has been nothing but fabulous to her, including always being up-front and honest. He started seeing a single gal at Mrs. work also and told her that he was seeing a married woman (not that that woman worked there, though) and if they ever got serious he would break it off. He also told Mrs. WS that, and when he did start to get serious with the single gal he did graciously break it off (though he still sends text messages that he misses Mrs. terribly ). But with all this, he was always freaked-out about meeting me, even though he knew she had total permission and I even signed a check to buy a camera from him (he's also a professional photographer and sold Mrs. one of his "last year's model" camera).

 

We've also not gone there at all with other single men because they would not meet me. The idea of Mrs. WS being married and cheating was a turn-on, but the idea of her having permission and meeting me freaked them out. They would email and text her over and over trying to get her to "cheat", saying things like "do you have to tell your husband EVERYTHING? Can't we just get a hotel room during your lunch break without him knowing?"

 

As far as single women, there are two single women that I'm very interested in that are friends with both Mrs. WS, who know of our lifestyle and still will not go "there" with me because they can't get past the idea that I'm married and have permission. They have told Mrs. WS that the idea of being somewhere having sex with me while Mrs. WS is home but know about it weirds them out, that they wouldn't know how to relate to Mrs. WS after that. The idea of sharing a person sexually and/or emotionally does not register properly in their head.

 

Of course one of these single women ended-up having almost a year relationship with a cheating married man and thought nothing of it. That did not freak her out because his wife did not know that they were having a relationship.

 

I think that some people are hardwired in a way that they can wrap their brains around the idea of consensual simultaneous multiple relationships and others can't. Your husband's girlfriend is one of those that can't.

 

I hate to say this, but my advice is for your husband to accept that maybe this won't work with her and take the chance of telling her outright that you and her are both a part of his life and that she either accepts you and makes you a part of her life as you want her to be a part of yours, or that this relationship really can't go further. I know he has chemistry with her, and I know you don't want to deprive him of her, but she's not thinking the same way. You and your husband are truly in a polyamorous relationship with her, she's just not with you.

 

It can work, too. There are three other women I play with solo on occasion and all three are friends with Mrs. WS. We go to parties with them, we go to dinner with them, the come over to our house for BBQ's and us to theirs. When one of them is in a relationship with someone else they don't hide the relationship they've had with me (us) from that person and they know that if that person can't accept that and us (even if I am not having sex with them anymore) than that person may not be "the one" for them.

 

It's all about being adults. As Mrs. WS would tell your husband's girlfriend (and did tell a potential playmate of mine one time that was playing this game with us): "Don't play big girl games if you can't be a big girl."

[Lovemates28 30]

It's all about being adults. As Mrs. WS would tell your husband's girlfriend (and did tell a potential playmate of mine one time that was playing this game with us): "Don't play big girl games if you can't be a big girl."

 

I like that line... I'm probably going to have to use it!

 

Thanks for all the feedback folks, I'll post updates as I get them.

[GoNatural 104]

Lovemates28, your final decision as quoted in ivorytowers' latest reply sounds excellent. I've been agreeing with ivorytowers all along.

 

I do think there are a couple of different explanations as to why this woman has been acting that way.

 

1) She can't break free from the cultural norms of mainstream society, so she continues to act like its an affair, which happens regularly in mainstream society.

 

2) She secretly wishes he were her boyfriend, so staying away from you helps keep that fantasy alive even if slightly.

 

3) Anxiety about meeting "the wife". This would probably be mixed in with a good dose of reason #1.

 

I do believe that some singles can make great friends w/benefits. I am a single male myself, and I would really like to be in such a situation. I've actually had threesomes with couples that would have wanted me to become a FWB to the wife, but I've been relocating too often.

 

In fact, I met a couple earlier this spring that was in a similar situation, yet slightly differnet.

 

The hubby has been having sex with two of the women where he works. One of them knows about the other woman that he is fucking at work, but the other does not, and thinks that she is the only one besides his wife. His wife knows the whole situation. They've all agreed not to tell that one chick at work any differently because of her personality. The huby, the wife, and other fuck buddy chick at work may all be in the wrong for not telling the whole truth to that last chick. That couple really was amazing and very open. They put nothing past people and know the variety of predicaments that people in up in socially. They were very entertaining, aside from being adventurous in bed. The wife craved being DP'ed, and it was a first for me to give it (double vaginal).