How can you claim to not be even a tad bi-curious?

[Samsa 15]

I am a bisexual male who is new here and wanted some opinions on this idea. I feel that intimacy shouldn't be restricted between gender. I understand having a preference of pussy or cock, but what I don't understand is being able to form a preference before trying the best of both worlds. A huge part of this, of course, is the stigma of being bisexual or gay, but anyone with the guts to overlook that will likely find something pleasurable.

 

I'm going to leave it at that for now and just wanted to get some feedback from you guys on this, since I figure people in the swing community are likely a bit more open minded and willing to step outside their immediate comfort zone.

[NCfuncouple98 367]

Curiosity is one thing. Curiosity of "what is it that makes a woman want to give a man a blow-job, or have him inside" is one thing. Yes, I have wondered what it is like for a woman and what drives her to want to put a dick in her mouth. However, I've never looked at another man and ever thought "what would that be like in my mouth?" Never had the "Hmm, yumm" factor.

 

So while everyone is curious about sexuality itself, it does not mean they have any desire or interest to be with the same sex. Have I ever wondered or been curious? Yeah. Is that a curiousity I have a desire to fill? That would be NO. Unequivocally. No desire, no interest, none.

 

It's not about stigma, or the fear, it's about desires. And you either desire it or you don't. I have never looked at another male and even thought "I wanna".

 

Mr. NC

[CXXC 435]

I have to mirror NC here.

Everyone has fantasies and dreams. Mrs. CXXC had many fantasies and dreams of being with another woman. She realized them and knows that she enjoys the activities very much. She is, by true definition, Bi.

 

That being said, I have never in my life fantasized or dreamed of being with another man. I have not felt the slightest interest in performing nor receiving oral or anal pleasure from another man. Hell, I haven't even thought of kissing another guy!

 

My view on societal standards is with slight disdain. I have never been one to go with the flow, so to speak. My faith is also in conflict with many of my personal views in life and sex. I am not at all guided by the moral fabric of society. I get my morals from within, not from the outer influences.

 

Why am I not interested in the pleasure without gender mattert? I simply don’t find it appealing. Have I contemplated the matter to the fullest? I believe so. Mrs. CXXC and I have discussed it at length. If I were so inclined to do so, I would have already. She would encourage such an act as it would excite her. However, once again, upon further review, I am not excited by the idea. If it does not excite me, even in the smallest way, I don’t pursue it.

 

I look at it like I do any variant of the lifestyle. I am not into S&M. Water Sports does nothing for me. SCAT, HOT Wax, Bondage or the like are of no interest to me. Have I tried these? No. Why would I if I am not at all excited by them?

 

Have I been clawed and scratched, smacked and bitten in the throws of passion? Yes. But I found them to be detractors not exciting. Therefore, I can only rest on my presumption hat I am correct in my other thoughts and feelings as well.

 

Bi-sexuality is not something that appeals to me. Am I being close minded? I don't think so! I have, after all, given the matter a great deal of thougth and consideration. The answere still remains, NO. It is not for me.

[Speed & Trixie 162]

My view on societal standards is with slight disdain. .

 

Only with slight disdain, Mr. CXXC?! 'Cause I've read your blogs....

 

Why am I not interested in the pleasure without gender mattert? I simply don’t find it appealing...

I look at it like I do any variant of the lifestyle. I am not into S&M. Water Sports does nothing for me. SCAT, HOT Wax, Bondage or the like are of no interest to me. Have I tried these? No. Why would I if I am not at all excited by them?

 

I think this would probably be close to Speed's answer, except he's actually made out with a guy. He said it was fun at the time, but he has NO DESIRE whatsoever to give a guy a blow job or have sex with him. It's like any sexual desire or preference -- you either have it or you don't.

 

Personally, I'm super glad I'm bi. IMHO it's twice the fun!!

 

Trixie

[LFM2 1,482]

 

Personally, I'm super glad I'm bi. IMHO it's twice the fun!!

 

Trixie

 

Trixie... You crack me up!! I love you posts! However, I have to agree 110% with this posting! It really IS twice the fun!!

[CXXC 435]

Trixie and LFM2

 

First I would like to say that I actually do envy your desire and ability to enjoy both sexes. You automatically double your oportunities for pleasure and fun! How ever, I am simply not wired that way. Checked, thought long and hard aobut it, tried to add it to a fantasie but still did nothing for me. So, It looks like you two and Mrs. CXXC are just going to have half again as much fun as I will!

 

Trixie

 

Um, ok, perhaps I have more than a "Slight" disdain for societal standards. My folkway will beat thier morals every time!

[YZF 8]

I think this would probably be close to Speed's answer, except he's actually made out with a guy. He said it was fun at the time, but he has NO DESIRE whatsoever to give a guy a blow job or have sex with him.

 

I am on the other end. I find it very uncomfortable to make out with a guy but I will give them a blow job or fuck them. I have only been on the receiving end of some anal in the lifestyle once.

[Trace Ekies 186]

I feel certain that there are a lot of men who want to try the other side but are afraid too as a result of stigma.

 

I've asked the question of myself but have no desire to try it on for size as many have stated. But I am sure that if you could get every person to be perfectly honest with themselves and then us, there would be a lot more male/male activity in general.

 

I'd also bet that a few women who are bi- to one degree or another would not do it anymore because of an opposite pressure to be bi- versus men who feel a pressure to not be bi.

[Chicup 41]

I am a bisexual male who is new here and wanted some opinions on this idea. I feel that intimacy shouldn't be restricted between gender. I understand having a preference of pussy or cock, but what I don't understand is being able to form a preference before trying the best of both worlds. A huge part of this, of course, is the stigma of being bisexual or gay, but anyone with the guts to overlook that will likely find something pleasurable.

 

I'm going to leave it at that for now and just wanted to get some feedback from you guys on this, since I figure people in the swing community are likely a bit more open minded and willing to step outside their immediate comfort zone.

 

I've had my share of sexual dreams in my life. Not once did those dreams ever include bisexual contact with me and another male.

 

And you decided to beat a dead horse....

but anyone with the guts to overlook that will likely find something pleasurable.

 

This has nothing to do with guts. The problem I think everyone out there makes is that they assume more people have their particular kink then people really do, and if they don't its just due to a character flaw in the person without the kink.

 

I don't understand a foot fetish. I really don't. No amount of 'trying' it or guts would make me get off on feet.

 

I don't understand bestiality. I can understand someone so desperate that they might turn to it as a masturbation tool, but I can't understand people who don't need the outlet turning to it as a preferred method of sexual contact.

 

I don't understand male homosexual activities. I understand it from a scientific stand point, I am tolerant of people having them, I don't think they are wrong, but I don't 'get' it at a sexual level. I just don't see the attraction, and seeing it to me is the SAME reaction I see with bestiality.

 

You just need to understand that some of us really don't care about society (we are swingers, think about that) when it comes to our sexual activities, are open to new experiences, but just really don't want to have sex with other males.

[corynlaine 118]

I have to say that I can kind of see both sides of the story. There are some activities which absolutely do NOTHING for either of us and we can't imagine a scenario where we would participate in said activity.

 

On the other hand - I find is simply INCREDIBLE that on a board like this, somewhere around 90% of women list as bi-curious to fully bi and at the same time 98% + of men list as straight.

 

After being here for some time, I still can not decide whether despite all the protestation, this is due to the fact that bi-female activity is on the top of most men's hit parade and the women are forced/coerced/talked into doing it

 

Or whether the LS draws the more sexually assertive women to the LS and they are far more open. But if this is the case - what does that say about the men!?

 

Are they, contrary to perhaps what they think, really not in charge?!

 

The numbers - at least the ones seen in public just don't add up?

 

This LS is supposed to be about sexual freedom, yet when it comes to this issue, the men in the LS seem to as recessive as Sunday quire.

 

As, to the issue of - I've thought about it and I am not limited by social mores - I would only say that the MIND is the largest sexual organ, but it's also the most complicated one that is far better at rationalizing things than most think. I wonder - is it really not being affected by the all the crap that society puts on men!?

[CXXC 435]

You will find that most men are loath to attempt bi-sexuality for all of the reasons you have stated. Society does not welcome it. men do not feel comfortable with expressing the desire due to social standards. The lifestyle is just as guilty in its closed minded approach to it. Within the lifestyle our folkways enable us to share our bodies with others. Women, are not necessarily pushed into the Bi activities as it is a desire not a demand from the men. I should say, women SHOULD not be made to do this. I am certain there are cases where this is true. This is an entirely different topic tho.

 

I have seen couples change their profiles where the man is listed from straight to bi. The well nearly dried up for them instantly. I attribute this to fear. Other men fear that they will be approached, or worse, made to do things they are uncomfortable with. (Women can get guys to do just about anything!) In the heat of the moment, they may well engage in male bisexual activities, enjoy it and then have to face the issue entirely. Are they really bi? Imagine the conflict in his mind! Therefore I believe most avoid it all together to avoid the confusion of gender bias.

 

One thing is certain. If we are as open and honest with ourselves as we say we are with our mates, these fears, concerns, issues, should not be. Being openly bi goes both ways. Men should have the same opportunities afforded women. Hell, Mrs. CXXC would love nothing more than to watch me and another man please each other. It is a fantasy she relishes. Unfortunately, this will not happen as I am not pleased by the idea. I am in now way afraid of it. I have no fears of being bi. I just know, through much thought and deliberation that I am not!

 

BTW, women do rule the roost. There is no argument about that.

 

For your amusement, I provide this test. Perhaps it may open your eyes a bit. If you are honest with your answers, this will give you a better understanding of your sexual self.

Epstein Sexual Orientation Inventory (ESOI)

[Speed & Trixie 162]

Maybe most men ARE straight, maybe most women are too. And maybe the straight males who bring up swinging to their wives are more likely to get a "let's do it" from a bisexual wife (rather than a straight wife)? Just a theory based on nothing LOL

 

BTW, I have held back in previous relationships and not told boyfriends I'm bi. Mostly for the reason Trace mentioned: I didn't want the BF to think he could get a threesome just because I like women. I didn't want the pressure of even having ideas in his head!

 

Hm, guess that would make Speed a very lucky man huh?

 

Trixie

 

PS- LFM2, right back at ya!

[funcpl4life 51]

 

You just need to understand that some of us really don't care about society (we are swingers, think about that) when it comes to our sexual activities, are open to new experiences, but just really don't want to have sex with other males.

 

I can't ask Chicup to change. If I want him to accept me the way I am, then I have to accept him the way he is. Is that too much to ask?

 

I tend to believe people when they say, "that's not my thing". People usually know what turns them on or off.

 

Mr. FC4L

[safireblues 106]

My husband is "bi", but he is not traditionally attracted to men. He never sees a guy and thinks "oh yeah, I want that." In the abstract, he doesn't feel like that.

 

On the other hand, I (the wife) am bi, and I have fantasized about women my entire life, and rarely about men. Still, I find myself more physically drawn to the smell of men, it feels more comfortable than with women.

 

What I draw from this is that sexuality is an odd thing, and there is more to it than the brain and the sex organs...there are hormones, there is chemistry, there are so many things. There are masculine people in feminine bodies, there are people who are in the middle.

 

What most sex researchers find is that people are on a spectrum, with very few people at either extreme and most people leaning one way or another. I have gone out with plenty of straight men, straight men who like cock, bi guys, guys who are just pervy and therefore like it all.

 

I just don't see an atmosphere on this here board where men can be open about who they are. Or in the swinger community. But I don't find it shocking since there are so few spaces in the world where men can truly be honest. And that's sad!

 

(((pervy mens))))

[corynlaine 118]

I just don't see an atmosphere on this here board where men can be open about who they are. Or in the swinger community. But I don't find it shocking since there are so few spaces in the world where men can truly be honest. And that's sad!

 

(((pervy mens))))

 

You know what worries me about this statement is not so much the truth of it, but the HYPOCRICY of it!

 

People on this board are all hard up about HONESTY and COMMUNICATION and LOVING COUPLES.

They universally deride (rightfully so) the married men who come here with the BS stories about how their wives just lost interest in sex meme.

 

BUT this is a GIANT elephant in the room that just screams dishonesty!

 

And you know what they say about little lie big lie!?

[Chicup 41]

I can't ask Chicup to change. If I want him to accept me the way I am, then I have to accept him the way he is. Is that too much to ask?

 

I am what I am and thats all that I am *toot toot*.

 

You know what worries me about this statement is not so much the truth of it, but the HYPOCRICY of it!

 

People on this board are all hard up about HONESTY and COMMUNICATION and LOVING COUPLES.

They universally deride (rightfully so) the married men who come here with the BS stories about how their wives just lost interest in sex meme.

 

BUT this is a GIANT elephant in the room that just screams dishonesty!

 

And you know what they say about little lie big lie!?

 

The question is who is being dishonest, and that would be the bi guys. I'm honestly not bi, and I honestly don't find it attractive or a turn on, in fact its a turn off.

 

Its up to the bi guys to say we're here, we're not queer, but we like cock.

 

Now I suppose its negative of me to think there is no such thing as 'straight' and 'likes cock' in the same sentence but thats just semantics, and it seems to be the semantics everyone is afraid of.

 

Personally since this isn't a dating site, no law says you need your SLS profile linked, there is no reason NOT to admit your preferences here, they can't come back to bite you unless you allow it.

[LFM2 1,482]

I have to say that I can kind of see both sides of the story. There are some activities which absolutely do NOTHING for either of us and we can't imagine a scenario where we would participate in said activity.

 

On the other hand - I find is simply INCREDIBLE that on a board like this,

somewhere around 90% of women list as bi-curious to fully bi

and at the same time 98% + of men list as straight.

 

As, to the issue of - I've thought about it and I am not limited by social mores - I would only say that the MIND is the largest sexual organ, but it's also the most complicated one that is far better at rationalising things than most think. I wonder - is it really not being affected by the all the crap that society puts on men!?

 

There are some activities which we don't understand either. But, to each their own. I'm not sure why you're so surprised that only 2%~ are bi on this board. I don't believe this site represents the swinging world as a whole. In my neck of the woods, the bisexual men are about 50%. Good for them. Social Mores be damned. We are already going against social mores by swinging. That is one activity that is NOT a social norm in my area.

 

I feel certain that there are alot of men who want to try the other side but are afraid too as a result of stigma.

I also think there is merit in this statement. It's not only that I agree with it, but the stigma is if a male tries something, will they think he's gay? Being homosexual carries quite the label in some societies. Basically what Mr. CXXC said in his next post.

 

I have seen couples change their profiles where the man is listed from straight to bi. The well nearly dried up for them instantly. I attribute this to fear. Other men fear that they will be approached, or worse, made to do things they are uncomfortable with. (Women can get guys to do just about anything!) In the heat of the moment, they may well engage in male bisexual activities, enjoy it and then have to face the issue entirely. Are they really bi? Imagine the conflict in his mind!

Interestingly, like I said, the male bi population in our area is about 40-50% according to their AFF profiles. Not a biggie. It's pretty acceptable more in this lifestyle than out of it in this area. There is not a lack of play people for these men. The well hasn't dried up for them here. It ups their chances of play partners. Now, I have no way to gauge if they are truly bi and have been with another man and love that or just curious of what it would be like to be with another man. There's a big difference.

 

And you know what they say about little lie big lie!?

 

No, I don't... can you explain? I really have not been living in a cave, either.

[corynlaine 118]

Chicup said:

I am what I am and thats all that I am *toot toot*.

 

 

 

The question is who is being dishonest, and that would be the bi guys GIRLS. I'm honestly not bi, and I honestly don't find it attractive or a turn on, in fact its a turn off.

 

Its up to the bi guys GIRLS to say we're here, we're not queer DIKES, but we like cock CUNT.

 

Now I suppose its negative of me to think there is no such thing as 'straight' and 'likes cock' 'likes cunt' in the same sentence but that's just semantics, and it seems to be the semantics everyone is afraid of.

 

 

there fixed it for you

 

[realcplub2 513]

I am a bisexual male who is new here and wanted some opinions on this idea. I feel that intimacy shouldn't be restricted between gender. I understand having a preference of pussy or cock, but what I don't understand is being able to form a preference before trying the best of both worlds. A huge part of this, of course, is the stigma of being bisexual or gay, but anyone with the guts to overlook that will likely find something pleasurable.

 

I'm going to leave it at that for now and just wanted to get some feedback from you guys on this, since I figure people in the swing community are likely a bit more open minded and willing to step outside their immediate comfort zone.

 

I have read all the posts in this thread and rather than comment on the statements made I prefer to bring it back to the OP

 

My friend, your question while it has drawn a lot of comment, is, a matter of PERSONAL PREFERENCE. You draw conclusions that are without inclusion of the one factor involved, the CHOICE.

 

I love going to airshows, which most often include SKYDIVING. the act of jumping out of a perfectly good airplane to "fly" - FALL and then float to the ground on some rope and nylon.. Pretty to watch but I aint setting foot on a plane let alone stepping out before it gets BACK DOWN.. And I love adventure.. but its my PREFERENCE .. see what I am sayin?

 

A child, will and does often argue that they do not like this food or that one without trying it.. because they do not have the tools to make an informed descion, Right? Using that train of thought, you are supposing EVERYONE should be FORCED to spend a bit o time between the knees of the same sex before saying.. No.

 

This lifestyle that this board is devoted to, is all about PERSONAL CHOICE AND PREFERENCES. Becareful before making statements about what EVERYONE should do before making choices about what they like or dont.

[Chicup 41]

there fixed it for you

 

 

 

Edit _ I couldn't get strike to work for some reason

 

I know you were trying to make a point, but it really missed the point.

 

Bi girls are not the problem, they admit liking pussy and are not often afraid to talk about being bi on the forum.

 

To put it crudely my wife licks pussy now and then, its not an issue.

 

The problem is the guys. The only time this forum is hostile to male bisexuals is when they or their mates state that the straight males are somehow flawed or at fault for not being bi.

 

I take exception to that.

 

Otherwise they can talk about the joys and problems about being bi without any hostility.

[LFM2 1,482]

Chicup... I totally agree (200%) with your last post!!

[SW_PA_Couple 4,023]

The problem is the guys. The only time this forum is hostile to male bisexuals is when they or their mates state that the straight males are somehow flawed or at fault for not being bi.

I'm with you on this question.

 

As far as fearing the stigma, I will admit it. I would be remembered for all the wrong reasons if I was seen puking all over a guy's pubis while trying to perform a sexual act. Sorry. It's just the way G*d created me.

[Samsa 15]

Alright, so now I understand that people may have their own personal preference for sexuality. There are kinks that appall rather then appeal to me. Although I can understand this, it still makes no sense to me. I have to agree with Chicup while I repeat that a lot of guys simply dont like the idea of stepping out of their comfort zone. You can't ignore the stigma, and I really think it does say something that a majority of females claim to be bisexual or bicurious while only a minority of males do the same.

[Chicup 41]

Alright, so now I understand that people may have their own personal preference for sexuality. There are kinks that appall rather then appeal to me. Although I can understand this, it still makes no sense to me. I have to agree with Chicup while I repeat that a lot of guys simply dont like the idea of stepping out of their comfort zone. You can't ignore the stigma, and I really think it does say something that a majority of females claim to be bisexual or bicurious while only a minority of males do the same.

 

I happen to study evolutionary sociobiology as a hobby. Its not surprising that there are more females listed as bisexual than males as female bisexuality seems more common and more 'true'. Many male bisexuals are men who really are trying to figure out what team they bat for, and most female bisexuals are just that, bisexual.

 

That may explain some numbers, but I do think you are correct in that a lot of bi males are 'in the closet' in swinging. I've seen more than a few profile which give what I see as glaring hints to the males bisexuality but with plausible deniablity.

 

The possible reasons have been gone over before here, and most of it stems from once you say you are bi you ONLY get contacted by couples where the other guy says he is bi too.

[The Fuse 1,012]

{snip} and I really think it does say something that a majority of females claim to be bisexual or bicurious while only a minority of males do the same.

 

I think part of it could be "true" per Chicup, part of it is due to couples with bisexual women gravitating toward swinging to satisfy that urge.

 

In my opinion, a large part of it is peer pressure.

 

What I mean is this: with the amount of pressure, both overt and implied, for women to be bisexual in swinging, the tendency is for the woman to find her highest level of comfort with bisexuality and claim that. This is definitely what I have done and how I am still evolving. I don't have any problem admitting that I am influenced by my environment. Unless a woman has a real aversion to bisexual activity, many will try it from time to time and may do some things they don't feel a compelling desire to do. I do this because my philosophy is to try things, and that variety is good, and because even though I am not drawn to (most) women, I feel enough of a desire that if it adds to my own experience and that of others, hey, I'm game. Over time, they may develop a comfort level with it, and as their comfort level expands their desires may evolve, as mine are. In other words, the more I do it, the more I like it. I am speaking of women like me who don't feel that desire to begin with, or at least don't feel it strongly enough to motivate them without external factors. I'm sure I'm not alone out there.

 

The opposite pressure is there for the men (in most places*), for plenty of reasons that have been discussed on other threads. So the tendency for the men (with some exceptions) is for the men to find their lowest level of bisexuality and claim that. Unless a man has a strong desire for bisexual activity, and a willingness to embrace that in spite of the peer pressure, he may be "straight" even if he has a teensy bit of curiosity. Maybe even if he is aware of his own curiosity, but it's not that strong, and so not worth the possible consequences.

 

*LFM2 said the percentage of bisexual men is 50% in her area. I don't know where she lives, but I am guessing that is unusual in most parts of the States. Do we have any data on geographical variation? In our area, the bi-curious and bi men are definitely in the minority, perhaps 20% on AFF and 10-15% on Swing Lifestyle, as a guess.

 

This is obviously just my opinion and I may get taken to task for it, but environment is a very strong factor in social norms. I don't see how we can ignore its influence when considering these very skewed numbers.

[rickmccool 23]

I happen to study evolutionary sociobiology as a hobby. Its not surprising that there are more females listed as bisexual than males as female bisexuality seems more common and more 'true'. Many male bisexuals are men who really are trying to figure out what team they bat for, and most female bisexuals are just that, bisexual.

 

I'm not sure what 'evolutionary sociobiology' is but as a bi male who has self analyzed all my life you are dead wrong. I agree that women are more comfortable with their sexuality for several reasons, including not having their minds fucked up by High School locker room talk but if a reliable survey was taken I think you'd find there are just as many truely bisexual men as there are bisexual women. Probably to the Nth degree. I myself am one and I know how I feel. I also have a close male friend who is the same way, and we entertain my(our) girlfriend pretty regularly. He definitely goes both ways and loves it as I do. I have met many other men who are the same way.

 

Everyone sees the world though their own eyes and I think many, including you and also the person who started this thread, fall into the trap of thinking that everyone is like themselves.

[Speed & Trixie 162]

.... and I really think it does say something that a majority of females claim to be bisexual or bicurious while only a minority of males do the same.

 

What do you think this "says," if I may ask? That both men and women are possibly feeling the social pressures/ expectations based on their gender? I would tend to agree with that, but I do also believe that there are more "truly" bisexual women than men, biologically speaking.

 

I can't find the thread now, but there was a nice doctor on here that was doing research on the sexual spectrum of males and females. I tend to think of sexuality or sexual preference as just that: a spectrum (rather than one's options being one of 3 categories straight/bi/gay). And the doc had some actual numbers based on his research, which was in both the swinger and vanilla populations.

 

As Mrs. Fuse mentioned, there are lots of women somewhere in-between (bi-comfy?) who are willing to explore their bi-side and perhaps push their comfort zone in that respect. I think part of that is biology, and part of it is envrionmental influence.

 

Trixie

[corynlaine 118]

I know you were trying to make a point, but it really missed the point.

 

Bi girls are not the problem, they admit liking pussy and are not often afraid to talk about being bi on the forum.

 

To put it crudely my wife licks pussy now and then, its not an issue.

 

The problem is the guys.

 

I take exception to that.

 

Otherwise they can talk about the joys and problems about being bi without any hostility.

 

Well, Ok, my point may not have been made well, but REALLY -

-

The only time this forum is hostile to male bisexuals is when they or their mates state that the straight males are somehow flawed or at fault for not being bi.

 

I am bi-curious because though never done it I am open to the idea. I am NOT requiring YOU to be. In this post as well as others I have CLEARLY ( I thought) stated that I CAN understand your point as there are things which I get no kick from and would never try, so by DEFINITION I am clearly stating that I DO NOT believe that there is anything wrong WITH you if you are not bi/bi-curious. HOWEVER, What I do say is that there is something wrong with you because OF your attitude towards others - YOU , have made statements to the effect that Bi-curious men are REALLY just homos - yet you don't apply this standard to women. YOU have made statements to the effect that should this "kind of behavior be tolerated" you would quit the lifestyle.

 

You display, openly, a double and intolerant standard when it comes to women vs men who make statements to the effect that they are bi-curious or bi with the "right". And because this attitude seems to SO be predominant is why I said that it's hard to believe that there are so few bi man. It's far more likely that they are unwilling to come out because they receive your open contempt and then cheered by the converted.

 

 

And THAT is the ONLY place where hostility towards bi men comes from.

 

Unless you care to show me posts I made or missed where bi-men are on a rampage about the inadequacies and shortcomings of straight men!

 

Yea I didn't think so.

[LFM2 1,482]

*LFM2 said the percentage of bisexual men is 50% in her area. I don't know where she lives, but I am guessing that is unusual in most parts of the States. Do we have any data on geographical variation? In our area, the bi-curious and bi men are definitely in the minority, perhaps 20% on AFF and 10-15% on Swing Lifestyle, as a guess.

 

This is obviously just my opinion and I may get taken to task for it, but environment is a very strong factor in social norms. I don't see how we can ignore its influence when considering these very skewed numbers.

 

I've often pondered this myself. Why do the men feel so comfortable with their sexuality here, while 150 miles away they are scared as rabbits to post anything at all? I can't believe that geographically, there are just more bisexual men here than anywhere else. I'm sure it has to do with comfort.

 

We are a pretty tight knit group of swingers here that are pretty darn comfy with each other. Is is that comfort that lets them list in their profile that they are bisexual? Have they not ever tested their bisexuality out and are really just bi-curious? If they are bisexual, I know that they don't push their preference with the men that are straight. Maybe that leads them to be more comfortable with their sexuality. I don't know.

[Chicup 41]

YOU , have made statements to the effect that Bi-curious men are REALLY just homos - yet you don't apply this standard to women.

 

*sigh*

 

A study published by the American Psychological Association recognizes that women can maintain a long-term attraction to both genders. This study, done over 10 years, was intended to refute the myth that bisexual women were lesbians trying to straddle the fence between societal expectations and their true feelings. It also shows that bisexual women are able to commit to long-term relationships.

 

another study

 

Using a sensor to monitor sexual arousal, the researchers found what they expected: gay men showed arousal to images of men and little arousal to images of women, and heterosexual men showed arousal to women but not to men.

But the men in the study who described themselves as bisexual did not have patterns of arousal that were consistent with their stated attraction to men and to women. Instead, about three-quarters of the group had arousal patterns identical to those of gay men; the rest were indistinguishable from heterosexuals.

....

The Advocate, the gay-oriented newsmagazine, found that, before identifying themselves as gay, 40 percent of gay men had described themselves as bisexual.

"I'm not denying that bisexual behavior exists," said Dr. Bailey, "but I am saying that in men there's no hint that true bisexual arousal exists, and that for men arousal is orientation."

 

Science she be a harsh mistress....

 

YOU have made statements to the effect that should this "kind of behavior be tolerated" you would quit the lifestyle.

 

Not quite, I'd quit going to clubs, since I find such activities to be a turn off. So no I hope it doesn't catch on so to speak since I like having clubs as an option. Being Mrs. Chicup finds it an even bigger turn off than I do, its not even about me at this point.

 

You display, openly, a double and intolerant standard when it comes to women vs men who make statements to the effect that they are bi-curious or bi with the "right". And because this attitude seems to SO be predominant is why I said that it's hard to believe that there are so few bi man. It's far more likely that they are unwilling to come out because they receive your open contempt and then cheered by the converted.

 

Sorry, this is a message board, in fact its the only place I've ever mentioned this topic. I find it interesting from a biology standpoint, and quite fascinating, but I don't find it sexy.

 

 

And THAT is the ONLY place where hostility towards bi men comes from.

 

Unless you care to show me posts I made or missed where bi-men are on a rampage about the inadequacies and shortcomings of straight men!

 

Yea I didn't think so.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about here. This thread started by talking about having the 'guts' to try bisexuality. Thats the kind of attitude I'm talking about and think I already covered. Its not about stigma or guts for a lot of us, its just pure desire.

 

I'm sorry you obviously find it offensive I don't want to see male bi contact at the clubs (note the key word, see, I don't care what you do when the door is closed). Thats not going to change, its not about tolerance, I tolerate bisexual and gay males just fine, I am friends with gay males, its not an issue. I just don't enjoy watching men have sex with other men. I do enjoy watching women have sex with other women. Double standard? Sure. Do I care? No.

 

If male bisexually is as common as some say, then you have nothing to fear from coming out of the bisexual closet. Swinging still boils down to economics at the clubs. Show the club owners they can't discriminate if they want to survive or start clubs which allow it, either way it should be fine IF the numbers are that high.

[Chicup 41]

Looking at my post, part of it got cut off when I did a cut and paste.

 

One thing I do think is that male bisexuality is more common than some researchers think being more hidden.

 

Nor do I think all male bisexuals are caught between homo and heterosexuality, but signs point to part of the reason you see more female bisexuality is that there are more female bisexuals.

 

A persons sexuality isn't about populations though its about what works for the individual.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I don't really think that a guy being curious how another penis feels/tastes, or a woman being curious as to how another woman's vagina tastes/feels... qualifies as bi-curious. That type of curiosity in no way says the person is remotely attracted to the opposite sex. IMO, in order to be bisexual or even bi-curious there has to be some sexual & physical attraction to people of the opposite sex.

[rickmccool 23]

*sigh*

another study

 

Using a sensor to monitor sexual arousal, the researchers found what they expected: gay men showed arousal to images of men and little arousal to images of women, and heterosexual men showed arousal to women but not to men.

But the men in the study who described themselves as bisexual did not have patterns of arousal that were consistent with their stated attraction to men and to women. Instead, about three-quarters of the group had arousal patterns identical to those of gay men; the rest were indistinguishable from heterosexuals.

....

The Advocate, the gay-oriented newsmagazine, found that, before identifying themselves as gay, 40 percent of gay men had described themselves as bisexual.

"I'm not denying that bisexual behavior exists," said Dr. Bailey, "but I am saying that in men there's no hint that true bisexual arousal exists, and that for men arousal is orientation."

 

Science she be a harsh mistress....

 

LOL! The Bailey study is so flawed as to almost be a joke. I tried to copy and paste some of the problems but there is such a volume that I gave up. I'll try to summarize.

 

The Bi volunteers were recruited by an ad in a Gay male publication distributed in Gay clubs around the Chicago area. Self selection and the fact that men who hang out in Gay clubs are usually toward the Gay side of the spectrum are issues here.

 

The criteria used was porn videos. The subjects were shown a 10 minute non sexual film then 2 videos showing Female to Female sex then 2 videos showing Male to Male sex. To me this disqualifies the study as scientific research off the bat. What if it was bad porn? What if the actors were unattactive. What if the volunteers were conditioned to enjoy Male/Female porn. What if they were just not aroused by porn. That's pretty much what happened. 1/3 of all men couldn't respond at all. If response is orientation as you quote Bailey as saying, then the results of the study should have been "1/3 of all men are ASEXUAL!"

 

That left about 65 men, 22 of which identified as bisexual, a pretty small group to come to any kind of scientific conclusion.

 

Sexual orientation was determined by their ranking themselves on a Kinsey Sexual Attraction Scale, with zero being heterosexual and six homosexual. Bailey decided that everyone ranked greater than one and less than five was bisexual. ”Looking at the group that Bailey calls “bisexual,” it appears there were men spread across the scale, from a Kinsey 1.5 to 4.5. What were the results? In fact, the lower the number, the more they leaned toward being measurably aroused by the sexual films featuring two women, and the higher the number the more they leaned toward films featuring two men. One would think that to be the expected outcome. So why the headlines then?

 

The self-assessment of arousal showed the expected bisexual pattern, meaning what the men felt differed from what the penis meter detected. Perhaps instead of deciding that “bisexual” men weren’t self-aware enough to know how they feel, the researchers need to re-examine assumptions about expected sexual response to stimuli.

 

Interestingly enough, 1 of the straight men and 1 of the Gay men showed an almost equal response pattern and a few of the Gay men showed a Bisexual response pattern. The study actually showed that about 12% (3 of 25) of Gay men are actually bisexual and also that a small percentage of straight men are also bisexual. That is if you accept its validity.

 

Something else that is discussed in the study but not included as part of the results, is that to some degree most of the men in the study were aroused by all of the sexual content. According to Bailey, “This suggests that most men may possess a certain capacity for bisexual arousal, although the magnitude of this arousal is quite modest.” Maybe the headline should read, “All Men Are, to Some Degree, Bisexual, Study Finds.”

 

Whew...Rick

[Chicup 41]

LOL! The Bailey study is so flawed as to almost be a joke. I tried to copy and paste some of the problems but there is such a volume that I gave up. I'll try to summarize.

 

The Bi volunteers were recruited by an ad in a Gay male publication distributed in Gay clubs around the Chicago area. Self selection and the fact that men who hang out in Gay clubs are usually toward the Gay side of the spectrum are issues here.

 

The criteria used was porn videos. The subjects were shown a 10 minute non sexual film then 2 videos showing Female to Female sex then 2 videos showing Male to Male sex. To me this disqualifies the study as scientific research off the bat. What if it was bad porn? What if the actors were unattactive. What if the volunteers were conditioned to enjoy Male/Female porn. What if they were just not aroused by porn. That's pretty much what happened. 1/3 of all men couldn't respond at all. If response is orientation as you quote Bailey as saying, then the results of the study should have been "1/3 of all men are ASEXUAL!"

 

That left about 65 men, 22 of which identified as bisexual, a pretty small group to come to any kind of scientific conclusion.

 

Sexual orientation was determined by their ranking themselves on a Kinsey Sexual Attraction Scale, with zero being heterosexual and six homosexual. Bailey decided that everyone ranked greater than one and less than five was bisexual. ”Looking at the group that Bailey calls “bisexual,” it appears there were men spread across the scale, from a Kinsey 1.5 to 4.5. What were the results? In fact, the lower the number, the more they leaned toward being measurably aroused by the sexual films featuring two women, and the higher the number the more they leaned toward films featuring two men. One would think that to be the expected outcome. So why the headlines then?

 

The self-assessment of arousal showed the expected bisexual pattern, meaning what the men felt differed from what the penis meter detected. Perhaps instead of deciding that “bisexual” men weren’t self-aware enough to know how they feel, the researchers need to re-examine assumptions about expected sexual response to stimuli.

 

Interestingly enough, 1 of the straight men and 1 of the Gay men showed an almost equal response pattern and a few of the Gay men showed a Bisexual response pattern. The study actually showed that about 12% (3 of 25) of Gay men are actually bisexual and also that a small percentage of straight men are also bisexual. That is if you accept its validity.

 

Something else that is discussed in the study but not included as part of the results, is that to some degree most of the men in the study were aroused by all of the sexual content. According to Bailey, “This suggests that most men may possess a certain capacity for bisexual arousal, although the magnitude of this arousal is quite modest.” Maybe the headline should read, “All Men Are, to Some Degree, Bisexual, Study Finds.”

 

Whew...Rick

 

Like all studies in sexuality you can try to pick it apart as you like. None of them have large controlled samples followed for years. Quite simply the money for such studies isn't there because its not something that really concerns the NIH.

 

Dr. Bailey never pulls any punches and is constantly criticized by any group who doesn't like his conclusions. It becomes quite comical as politics starts to trump science.

 

Dr. Bailey was one of the first to show that homosexuality isn't caused by upbringing by an over protective mother (yes that was the theory), and has been a respected sex researcher at northwestern for 20 years.

 

Also he was quite clear on the arousal study as to what the results mean, you can be cute and try to twist it but it was rather cut and dry.

 

Now unlike men the same study found women were almost all aroused by both FF and MF activities. To me thats much more interesting than the men, as I've always joked all women are bisexual (Mrs. Goodtimes forgive me ). If anything its just further proof that male and female minds are different.

 

While Dr. Bailey has been attacked by those who disagree with his research, even by other academics, oddly they don't attack him where it should matter and thats scientifically. Thats how the whole process works. Someone has a theory, someone does a study, someone else comes along tests the hypothesis.

 

I would think it should be pretty easy to replicate this study.

[rickmccool 23]

Quote

Like all studies in sexuality you can try to pick it apart as you like. None of them have large controlled samples followed for years. Quite simply the money for such studies isn't there because its not something that really concerns the NIH.

 

That doesn't alter the fact that the study group was much too small to be of any value

 

Quote

Dr. Bailey was one of the first to show that homosexuality isn't caused by upbringing by an over protective mother (yes that was the theory), and has been a respected sex researcher at northwestern for 20 years.

 

Relevance?

 

Quote

Also he was quite clear on the arousal study as to what the results mean, you can be cute and try to twist it but it was rather cut and dry.

 

Yes I was being cute, but the results showed just what I said. Scattershot and inconclusive.

 

Quote

Now unlike men the same study found women were almost all aroused by both FF and MF activities. To me thats much more interesting than the men, as I've always joked all women are bisexual (Mrs. Goodtimes forgive me ). If anything its just further proof that male and female minds are different

 

There were no women included in the study. Only men.

 

 

Quote

While Dr. Bailey has been attacked by those who disagree with his research, even by other academics, oddly they don't attack him where it should matter and thats scientifically. Thats how the whole process works. Someone has a theory, someone does a study, someone else comes along tests the hypothesis.

 

Some of the criticism is indeed personal but the bulk of it is scientific. Method of selection, number of subjects, criteria used, the flat assumption that for men response is orientation, the basic validity of the study since so many men failed to respond at all, etc., etc.. Even the penis meter is not considered a scientific instrument. Someone does a study, someone else comes along and tests the hypothesis. In my opinion this study fails the test.

 

Quote

I would think it should be pretty easy to replicate this study

 

I think I'll just leave this one alone.

[corynlaine 118]

Rick,

 

 

Thank you for the EXCELLENT summary. I was going to do it but I just haven't had the time.

 

Chicup, FUNNY - how when you thought that the SCIENCE backed your point of view

 

Science was harsh task master - But all of a suddent when the outragous flaws in the study are pointed out AND actually demonstrate that your assumtions are wrong

 

then all of a suden it's "well there is not much money for such studies"

 

This is called CONFIRMATION BIAS for the 1st part and CONGANTIVE DISSONANCE for the second (more commonly refered to as hypocracy. Thanks for proving the point YET again!

 

NOTE As always - this is not an effort to to convince you to try Bi-male or prove that there is something 'wrong" with you for not being interested.

I have no agenda here - while I list as bi-curious, my definition is much more along the lines of what Julie posted. I just can't stand the prejudice couched in moral high ground - it sounds just like the fundi xians who claim that we'll allburn in hell just because we're on this board.

___

Here is another perfect example of the attitude I am talking about.

 

Its the thought of two muscle men with hairy bodies (chests, legs, etc) being intimate with each other in any way sounds so eeewwwww.

 

But two long haired soft silky tanned curvy hairless women licking and kissing each other sounds like such a beautiful sight.

 

RIGHT - because all bi/bi-curious men are hairy muscle bound guys dressed in leather chaps while bi/bi curious girls NEVER look like this

 

[Chicup 41]

rickmccool said:

That doesn't alter the fact that the study group was much too small to be of any value

 

Actually N=30 is normally the minimum size.

 

Relevance?

 

Establishing his credentials as a sex researcher.

 

 

Yes I was being cute, but the results showed just what I said. Scattershot and inconclusive.

 

 

No, you decided that it made it inconclusive, the data was conclusive.

 

There were no women included in the study. Only men.

 

 

The exact same study was done with women too. The results were as I stated.

 

In contrast to men, both heterosexual and lesbian women tend to become sexually aroused by both male and female erotica, and, thus, have a bisexual arousal pattern.

 

“These findings likely represent a fundamental difference between men’s and women’s brains and have important implications for understanding how sexual orientation development differs between men and women,” said J. Michael Bailey, professor and chair of psychology at Northwestern and senior researcher of the study “A Sex Difference in the Specificity of Sexual Arousal.” The study is forthcoming in the journal Psychological Science.

 

 

Quote

Some of the criticism is indeed personal but the bulk of it is scientific. Method of selection, number of subjects, criteria used, the flat assumption that for men response is orientation, the basic validity of the study since so many men failed to respond at all, etc., etc.. Even the penis meter is not considered a scientific instrument. Someone does a study, someone else comes along and tests the hypothesis. In my opinion this study fails the test.

 

Oddly there is no counter research. As I said this should be a VERY easy study to do if there was so much wrong with it and it caused such a fuss. Calling the penis meter not a scientific instrument is kinda silly, anything can be a scientific instrument if its consistent.

 

So you don't like his study and think its useless. That's fine, whats your basis on then besides anecdotal?

[funcpl4life 51]

I don't really think that a guy being curious how another penis feels/tastes, or a woman being curious as to how another woman's vagina tastes/feels... qualifies as bi-curious. That type of curiosity in no way says the person is remotely attracted to the opposite sex. IMO, in order to be bisexual or even bi-curious there has to be some sexual & physical attraction to people of the opposite sex.

 

Interesting. I think we're into semantics at this point.

 

I consider myself bi because I've sucked a dick and liked it. I don't ever have social/personal/dating relationships with men at all. I don't seek out guys. When there are 4 or more of us on the bed (or bed analog), I'm willing to have sexual contact with males and females.

 

To me, bi is "I have sexual contact with males and females".

Bi-curious is "I think I would or would like to have sexual contact with males and females".

 

 

As well as being bisexual, I am truly ambidextrous. I do not accept that anyone's brain is *necessarily* wired like mine. I may be a population of 1.

 

I accept people where they say they are at and love them where they are at. (we all have that friend that isn't as far in the closet as he thinks he is)

 

Mr. FC4L

[JandY 61]

I never knew I was bi-curious until after me and my lass had our first swinging session and everytime I recalled it, my brain was concentrating as much on his dick and the fun she was having with it as anything else. I envied her more than him.

 

When I spoke with him, it turned out that his experience was exactly the same. He had been captivated by the sight of his lass enjoying giving me a BJ.

 

He said watching her give me a BJ was more horny than her giving him one and it was her that he envied, not me. Which was exactly how I felt.

[rickmccool 23]

As well as being bisexual, I am truly ambidextrous. I do not accept that anyone's brain is *necessarily* wired like mine. I may be a population of 1.

 

I accept people where they say they are at and love them where they are at. (we all have that friend that isn't as far in the closet as he thinks he is)

 

Mr. FC4L

 

That is very interesting . I am also ambidextrous and my male friend is also. So I guess we're a population of 3, at least.

[Swing*8701 887]

Ed here -- I recall a colleague who was a male bisexual swinger and we had the following conversation:

 

"Ed, isn't a mouth, really just a mouth, when you come right down to it."

 

"Not when it has a moustache."

 

And I stand by that.

[rickmccool 23]

If 30 is the minimum number then obviously 22 falls below that number. Whatever the minimum, common sense will tell you that 22 bisexual men recruited from Gay clubs in Chicago is too small a number to take this study seriously.

 

***

 

Whether or not Bailey is a respected sex researcher is open to question. Here are some comments I got on the internet.

 

Bailey is probably most well known for his book, 2003 book, The Man Who Would Be Queen: The Science of Gender-Bending and Transsexualism. To me, this work makes “Sexual Arousal Patterns of Bisexual Men” look like “The Origin of Species.” The book has no footnotes, no surveys, and no statistics, and was built on anecdotal observation of a small handful of people who are transgender. According to Lynn Conway (a transgender activist who has dedicated herself to debunking the book), “…the [book] simply pronounced as a scientific fact that postoperative transsexual women are either (i) effeminate gay men who underwent ‘sex changes’ in order to have sex with lots of men, or else they are (ii) sexual paraphilic males who ‘changed sex’ for bizarre autosexual reasons.”

 

Attacks against Bailey have been blistering. In a review at the web site for the National Association for Research and Therapy in Homosexuality, A. Dean Byrd, Ph.D., MBA, MPH states, “J. Michael Bailey has been accused of having sex with a research subject. His own sexuality has been questioned—he is a divorced father of two who frequents gay bars for the purpose of doing ‘research.’ He has been accused of failing to obtain the informed consent of research subjects. Formal charges have been filed with Northwestern University against him over this.” Northwestern did scrutinize him and his work, but has not released the results of the investigation. However, in October 2004, Bailey resigned as Chair of the Psychology Department. It would be hard to imagine the two are unrelated

 

***

 

The data is not conclusive and is a matter of interpretation. I would argue that the difference in the subjective responses, obtained by the use of a lever and which showed a distinct bisexual pattern, and the penis meter responses really indicated that the penis meter responses were invalid. The fact that so many men had to be eliminated from the study is a pretty strong clue in itself.

 

In my experience people usually don't lie. Some do obviously, but In a serious situation such as a courtroom or a study like this people tend to tell the truth. Did the straight man who showed a distinctly bisexual pattern lie? I doubt it. Did the two gay men who showed a heterosexual arousal pattern or the gay man who showed a bisexual arousal pattern lie? I doubt it.

 

Bailey interpreted it his way because that was what he was trying to prove.

 

***

Straight men in the swinging community probably love this study. There are no bisexual men, but all women are bisexual. Women are encouraged and even expected to be bisexual. The men like to watch but more importantly it allows them to have sex with women they wouldn't otherwise be able to.

 

***

I am not a sex researcher so my experiences are purely anecdotal but here are a few comments from academics and professionals.

 

"I have seen in my practice very, very, very many men who are bisexual," Weitzman tells WebMD. "Really, there are so many bisexual men out there. There are so many men who say — and demonstrate — that they love men and love women and are happy with it."

 

Rieger and Bailey are looking in the wrong place for men's sexual identities, says Sheeri Kritzer, a Bisexual Resource Center board member. Identity, she says, comes from above the ears, not below the belt.

 

"The whole point of sexual identity is it is a validation of who you are," Kritzer tells WebMD. "This study perpetuates the idea that men are studs, that they go with whatever turns them on. It goes on the old stereotype that men think with their [penises]."

 

Sexologist Paula Rodriguez Rust, PhD, is the editor of the 1999 book "Bisexuality in the United States." She says a person's sexual orientation is not determined merely by genital arousal.

 

"Sexual response is not everything we think of when we think of sexual orientation," Rodriguez Rust tells WebMD. "Bisexuality clearly exists."

***

 

The reliability of the penis meter is also questionable. I concede this to be a minor point but evidence obtained using the the plethysmograph – which measures blood flow to the penis is apparently not admissable as evidence in US courts (although the mind boggles as to what it would be needed for).

 

***

 

Bailey's study is shaky science at best, if at all. I would even say the field of Psychology itself is shaky science. Sounds like it could be a good game though. Do a study that doesn't take much effort, create a controversy and then write a book. Wonder if he will do that? Could help pay the rent.

 

I really think Bailey has wandered down the wrong hallway. He needs to do his measuring between the ears and not between the legs.

[Chicup 41]

Rick if you don't want to agree with the study that fine.

 

I find it fits my own readings on tangential material and think its mostly valid for many bisexual males and females.

[bitNtim 84]

In our 30 year experience we have found that about 20% of men who swing as couples will admit in private to being bisexual compared to about 65% of women. In house party situations we have rarely seen male on male contact that is overtly bisexual. If it happens it is behind closed doors. It would seem that most swinging involving male bisexuality is done in smaller more private settings. It could even be said to be a practice between individuals who would never call themselves swingers in the way many of us understand the definition. We would all agree that in a mmf situation and in relative privacy there is a wide variety of sexual variation possible of which a majority of us have preferred to partake of only a few.

 

I remember when we first started swinging we were eating at a hotel restaurant where later we would be attending a swing club dance and we over heard the staff say " OH it is some kind of swingers group or something.... If you ask me they are all a bunch of gays." It was our first impression of dealing with the reality of our lifestyle.

[TwoLittleBirds 23]

I've wondered what it would be like to be female, and in sexy situtations. Or what sex with a guy would be like. But I don't feel the desire to do those things.

 

Actually, to be honest, I've also wondered how long I could survive unprotected in outer space. I mean, could function for a couple of seconds, at least? Could I avoid panicking or trying to scream? Could I whip out my rivet gun and damage the porthole of the jerks who pushed me out the airlock?

 

But I don't want to actually try it. And I suppose I'd rather kiss another guy, if it came to a choice between the two. But I digress.

 

The important point, I think, is that you do NOT need us men to say what you do is ok. It is ok. It is ok for you. Even if all of us said, "No way!" That doesn't make you bad. It's not necessary for all other men to say, "Oh, hell yeah, I'm Bi-curious, too, so it's ok, buddy!"

 

Live your life, enjoy your life and allow (or help) others live and enjoy their lives.

 

Not bi (or vacuum) curious, but

I'll still send you a big hug,

Mr. LoveBird

[Lucifersam76 15]

I am a bisexual male who is new here and wanted some opinions on this idea. I feel that intimacy shouldn't be restricted between gender. I understand having a preference of pussy or cock, but what I don't understand is being able to form a preference before trying the best of both worlds. A huge part of this, of course, is the stigma of being bisexual or gay, but anyone with the guts to overlook that will likely find something pleasurable.

 

I'm going to leave it at that for now and just wanted to get some feedback from you guys on this, since I figure people in the swing community are likely a bit more open minded and willing to step outside their immediate comfort zone.

 

Just because something may be true for you, it shouldn't be mistaken as something that is similar in all people. I don't have any interest in men, and not because of any societal norm or social pressure. I if I was attracted in even the slightest bit, I would explore. But that is not the case.

[realcplub2 513]

Look Studies aside.. There is one underlying fact that we attempted to communicate in our first post in this thread

 

There is always going to be a debate over wiether its preference or genetics, is someone hard wired to the role they are convinced they are, is it enviroment or were they born that way..

 

To Be Honest WHO CARES!

 

The whole premise of this thread started out with the idea that no one SHOULD say they arent into this or that without trying it.. This mandate is a GREAT IDEA.. Hmm lets see, for a few thousand years or better Shepperds are said to have spent many a lonely night breaking up the monotony by giving a Ewe some "special" attention. Supposedly placing them on the edge of a cliff gets them to push back.. according to all the bad jokes I have heard over the years..

 

Tell ya what lets test this little theory you have, about making a "informed decision" .. You know, practice what you preach?

 

When you get back from your barnyard adventure, Why stop there?

 

How about a bit of Hard S&M, care to be the subject of a holiday weekend Marathon?

How about Anal Fisting? Maybe a rolling pin? A Bowling Pin?

Perhaps a bit of Scatological exploration? Mmmm Hope your HUNGRY

Maybe some NECROPHILIA, Whats the harm its not like they are gonna COMPLAIN Course it is a bit COLD

 

Did I hit the REVULSION button hard enough for ya yet? All of the over the top subjects listed above to MOST people are Disgusting without having to TRY it to know they are turned off by each thing.. But of course there are those that DO get there kicks that way..

 

They dont advocate that you need an informed decisions to enjoy thier KINKs..

 

Now do I feel bisexuality, MALE OR FEMALE is a perversion, NOPE

 

Do I THINK there are those that can choose to enjoy themselves with the opposite sex, just as much as those those that choose to play with either sex.. ABSOLUTELY

 

The problem is all of this is subjective, what one person PREFERS doesnt mean EVERYONE has to be the same.

 

Would it be a wonderful world if SOCIETY accepted and Joined in in our lifestyle, Sure but then just like this whole thread.. its not for everyone.. Sure it would be nice

 

Lets pick this up again. after these words have really SUNK IN

[swingingedmcpl 15]

Samsa said:

I am a bisexual male who is new here and wanted some opinions on this idea. I feel that intimacy shouldn't be restricted between gender. I understand having a preference of pussy or cock, but what I don't understand is being able to form a preference before trying the best of both worlds. A huge part of this, of course, is the stigma of being bisexual or gay, but anyone with the guts to overlook that will likely find something pleasurable.

 

I'm going to leave it at that for now and just wanted to get some feedback from you guys on this, since I figure people in the swing community are likely a bit more open minded and willing to step outside their immediate comfort zone.

 

My wife & I are new to this lifestyle and have no qualms about being bi, we both see it as being perfectly "normal" to express ones sexuality in the confines of the bedroom and we both have allot of fun with single men and ladies and bi couples in the privacy of our home, that's where things break down, society says that being bisexual is just like being gay and therefor Not acceptable so it is something that must be hidden from public view, sort of if they don't see it it doesn't exist, the head in the sand theory at it's finest!

 

Clothes were originally designed to keep us warm, not to hide within and from birth we are told what is right and what is wrong and that if you expect to "fit in" socially you must conform to certain moral guidelines and if you don't you are labeled an outcast, that's another reason we enjoy the swinging lifestyle, we enjoy being different and to be able to enjoy the human body in all of it's differences and beauty.

[SheLovesTheSun 40]

I think everyone has a preference, but one should not be coerced into something they don't want to do.

 

I can often understand why someone (man or woman) might find another woman desirable. Heck, I can even admit that I find another woman beautiful, but am I interested in playing with her? I'd have to say no, I'm just not interested.

[Lascivious L&L 866]

Ah, it's too bad this thread petered out a year ago.

 

One point missed is that bisexual curiosity is demonstrated by the mere fact of reading this thread. It is even more strongly demonstrated by posting in this thread.

 

There is a great deal of confusion between real sexual preference and powerful societal programing. We males are strongly programmed against sexual interest in other males. Despite that powerful, insidious, and constant programming the interest in male bisexuality is amazingly strong. Even "celibate" priests demonstrate that fact.

 

What Chicup consistently fails to get is that bisexual men do not find offensive his or others' straightness, but rather his and others' offensiveness toward bisexual males. He has on many occassions compared sex between males of the same species to sex between different species.

 

Most bisexual males enjoy females every bit as much as straight males enjoy females. They may enjoy bisexuality between females even more than straight males because they understand it on a level straight males refuse to experience. Bisexual males simply enjoy more of sex than straight males.