Are they enough for you?

[CXXC 435]

In this thread Overcoming Objections to Swinging one question got me thinking.

 

-Worry that your desire for swinging means that they are not enough for you?

 

I really had to sit back and ponder this question for a couple days. Is my involvement in the lifestyle proof that my wife is not enough for me? Is her desire to play with others a sign that I am not enough for her? Are we active in the lifestyle to fill the void that we both have in our sexual desires and fantasies?

 

I am forced to consider that we may well not be enough for our spouses/SO’s. We all have desires and fantasies of being with others outside of our marriage beds. But why? Why are we excited by the idea of being with someone else?

 

It is not an emotional issue. We love our mates and, for most of us, have no desire to share that feeling with another. We are not lacking in our emotional capacity to stay emotionally true to one another. Emotional monogamy is never in question.

 

We are then brought to the physical aspect of our union. What is it that keeps us from being completely fulfilled by our mates? If they were everything and all we need, we would not have fantasies or desires for another. If they were “enough” for us in our passion or wants, we would have no need of others involvement.

 

If they are enough for us, why do we swing? Why do we take another to bed, engaged in virtually the very same activities and motions we share with our mates? How can we justify our partners as being enough for us if we continue to pursue these activities?

 

Do we do this out of fear of infidelity? Can we honestly say that, knowing our appetites for sex as we have openly expressed them, we would not stray in the future had we not been free to act within the lifestyle? Is this possibility the actual driving force behind the community?

 

Is the fact that my wife thinks about being with another man proof that I have not been enough to please her completely and wholly? Have I not been enough for her to commit to me and only me in both body and mind? To be truly “ENOUGH” she would no longer have fantasies of another’s involvement. I would not think of being with another woman. We would not imagine the touch and feel of another with such reverie!

 

I think this question deserves some true thought. For me, I would have to say, I am not enough for Mrs. CXXC. But in my limitation, I am ok with that!

[realcplub2 513]

Having read your ponderings I would ask one question

 

Do you and your wife play as a couple or as two singles?

 

Playing only as a couple means there is no "doing it behind the back" of the other partner.. I know this is going to draw fire from those that do play as singles, but your points you ponder would be valid, if that was the case..

 

In our case we shared a fantasies with each other and then after much discussion on the point of safety and all the other concerns we overcome when we atart out doing this, it was clear that we both enjoyed sharing our playtime, as we shared it with others..

 

Seeing her pleasured by another guy, or providing such pleasure in turn to either sex.. living out fantasoes of 2 men at the same time, enjoying anther woman, playing with another couple, playing with two other couples.. all of it, of course there were pangs of jealousy the first few times, but we use the same mentality all the time

 

She/He is going home with me

[Ed & Bunny 160]

I must say that I have also done some thinking after reading that thread. I agree it is not a lack of love, caring or devotion to one another that leads us to swinging. The best comparison I have been able to come up with is filet minon. As a steak it may be the best, juciest, most tender thing on the market, but if you eat it every day, soon it will get boring. You have to eat other things to really be able to appreciate it.

 

I know this is not the best comparison, and I know I never tire of sex with Bunny, but for me swinging gives me a bit of variety and makes me appreciate what we have together even more. I dont care how good another gal is in bed, she will never be able to push my buttons the way Bunny does.

 

Just my thoughts on the subject.

[Dave_kat 227]

If you meet us on the street, the first thing we say about each other is that we are our each other's best friends.

 

But we also recognize some facts about human nature that we keep in the backs of our minds:

 

1. Human beings live longer nowadays than our relatives did in the 1800s, and even further back. It is typical now to live to 70 or 80 or longer, whereas in the early 1800s it was 50 to 60. Even before then, 2000 years ago it was probably 30-40. 50 to 60 years with a single partner is a long time. Granted a lot did it, but how many times did each of the couple commit adultery throughout those marriages, and it was hushed up because divorce wasn't acceptable?

 

2. In the animal kingdom, the survival of the species is to "spread their seed far and wide." There are very few, if any monogamous species out there.

 

3. Note: This one generally provokes an argument - but marriage was invented to help stabilize a community, part of the "it takes a community to raise a child theory". What does the community bring? It allows people to specialize - some can hunt, some can teach, some can care for the children. With marriage, people were tied together with socially acceptable bondings that kept the men coming home from the hunt and the women less threatened by the presence of another female.

 

But then we get into modern times, where we can discuss these things almost openly, and we see a lot of bisexuality. Why deny a partner a taste for something he/she desires that the long term partner cannot provide? Dave cannot be a woman and fulfill Kat's desire to be with another woman.

 

Are we the best lover for each other? We know each other the best, and know what best gets our signifigant other off. That doesn't mean that neither of us look at different people and say "I wanna get some of that." Each of us is built differently, otherwise there would only be 1 bra size, 1 condom size, 1 shoe size. We're never going to stop looking at other people and creating potential comparisons between them and our signifigant other.

 

We are undoubtably the best for each other because we know each other so well. We as swingers always stress to each other to keep the communication open, to be open and honest with each other. As love is 75% mental, we know we have that, and it's not something that we can find so quickly with another. Lust on the other hand is mostly physical, and physical is fleeting.

 

Just our 2 cents on this one.

[The Fuse 1,012]

{snip} What is it that keeps us from being completely fulfilled by our mates? If they were everything and all we need, we would not have fantasies or desires for another. If they were “enough” for us in our passion or wants, we would have no need of others involvement.

 

If they are enough for us, why do we swing? Why do we take another to bed, engaged in virtually the very same activities and motions we share with our mates? How can we justify our partners as being enough for us if we continue to pursue these activities?

 

Do we do this out of fear of infidelity? Can we honestly say that, knowing our appetites for sex as we have openly expressed them, we would not stray in the future had we not been free to act within the lifestyle? Is this possibility the actual driving force behind the community?

 

Is the fact that my wife thinks about being with another man proof that I have not been enough to please her completely and wholly? Have I not been enough for her to commit to me and only me in both body and mind? To be truly “ENOUGH” she would no longer have fantasies of another’s involvement. I would not think of being with another woman. We would not imagine the touch and feel of another with such reverie!

 

I think this question deserves some true thought. For me, I would have to say, I am not enough for Mrs. CXXC. But in my limitation, I am ok with that!

 

Define "enough". It is a slippery concept.

 

You can have enough, and still want more.

 

I think there is something biological, organic, natural, etc. about wanting to be with other people even though you are in a committed relationship. It is just as natural as can be. That in itself, that basic drive, is enough (pun sort of intended) to explain why we are not completely fulfilled by our mates. There is nothing to feel guilty about. It's just a part of being a healthy human being.

 

However we define terms, I can say that before Mr. Fuse got into the lifestyle, we both knew about and accepted as natural the fact of finding others attractive. We both trusted the other absolutely, and still do, not to do something the other wouldn't approve of. Does that make us "enough" for each other? Did it make us unfulfilled? That's another slippery concept. We had everything we needed, but we each wanted more. We just would have held back on seeking it.

 

Why do we want others? Aside from it simply being part of being human to sexually desire more than one person over the long run, we also want validation of ourselves as attractive. It is a rush. It's good for the ego.

[fun4Ds 1,097]

These questions were talked about and settled long before we started enjoying sex with other people together. Its not about feeling like we are enough for each other, or even not enough. We have been together a very long time.

 

It's about enjoying who we are to each other and what we do have.

[LFM2 1,482]

 

-Worry that your desire for swinging means that they are not enough for you?

 

Are we active in the lifestyle to fill the void that we both have in our sexual desires and fantasies?

 

I can honestly say that I've had my share o fantasies and desires. They involve more than one person, so while Dave can still be in my fantasy, it requires more than just him. It also gave me a chance to sate my curiosity of bisexuality. So, this was just one venue to try swinging. However, I can never say that Dave is not enough for me. He is more than I ever dreamed of.

 

I am forced to consider that we may well not be enough for our spouses/SO’s. We all have desires and fantasies of being with others outside of our marriage beds. But why? Why are we excited by the idea of being with someone else?

 

I remember being in high school and having a new boyfriend. I think that happened about every three months. But there was an excitement of being with someone new... even if it never led to sex, it still gave me tinglies to kiss someone new. Even to the point of orgasm. I'm not saying that I can't feel those things with Dave. It's just more intense with someone new. I know that Dave would agree with me on this point since we have discussed it.

 

It is not an emotional issue. We love our mates and, for most of us, have no desire to share that feeling with another. We are not lacking in our emotional capacity to stay emotionally true to one another. Emotional monogamy is never in question.

You're right. My emotional monogamy will never falter.

 

We are then brought to the physical aspect of our union. What is it that keeps us from being completely fulfilled by our mates? If they were everything and all we need, we would not have fantasies or desires for another. If they were “enough” for us in our passion or wants, we would have no need of others involvement.

 

If they are enough for us, why do we swing? Why do we take another to bed, engaged in virtually the very same activities and motions we share with our mates? How can we justify our partners as being enough for us if we continue to pursue these activities?

Why do we swing? Because we can. This is one of most selfless gifts Dave and I have ever given each other. I love it that there is such variety in our partners. Dave gets to have sex with redheads, blonds, brunettes, and women of every shape and size and he loves it. Would that be selfish of me if he wanted to and I said no? Yeah, I think it would. He gives me that same freedom.

 

Do we do this out of fear of infidelity? Can we honestly say that, knowing our appetites for sex as we have openly expressed them, we would not stray in the future had we not been free to act within the lifestyle? Is this possibility the actual driving force behind the community?

Not at all. At least in our case. I can't speak for others, but I've never had a fear that Dave would cheat on me or that I might cheat on him because my desire would overcome what I knew was wrong.

 

 

Is the fact that my wife thinks about being with another man proof that I have not been enough to please her completely and wholly? Have I not been enough for her to commit to me and only me in both body and mind? To be truly “ENOUGH” she would no longer have fantasies of another’s involvement. I would not think of being with another woman. We would not imagine the touch and feel of another with such reverie!

In the bold part that I quoted, putting Dave in your place, just because I have fantasies about another man does not mean that he isn't enough for me. I believe it's human nature to fantasize. It doesn't matter who you are or what you do, you might find yourself thinking sexual thoughts of another no matter what your station in life. It would be ludicrous of me to ask Dave not to fantasize about other women. Good grief, he's married, not dead.

[Trace Ekies 186]

CXXC,

 

Wow, I wasn't planning on any deep thought on a Monday morning but you insist...like me, you should take up masturbation...it takes a good amount of time and will hopefully prevent any other forays into deep thought.

 

I think it has to do with a couple of things...

 

1. Women are hardwired by natural selection to mate with the strongest of the breed. Our wives chose us, giving us the indication that we are the strongest of the breed but they recognize however that there are others and feel the need to mate with them too, making them sluts.

 

2. Men are hardwired by natural selection to breed with as many as possible. We married one to ensure a steady supply of nookie but have a deep seated need to mate with others making us good.

 

3. With swinging, we as men fill a need to help women be the sluts they need to be and we follow our natural tendency to spread our seed far and wide.

 

See, clear as mud...right?

 

This may not be a funny joke, but it is purely meant to be humorous so please excuse my thinking I'm funny and call me names.

[Trace Ekies 186]

Now to an answer of some merit (maybe).

 

Mrs. Ekies and I actually discussed this exact question early in our career. We decided, after some experiences, that we don't need others...we want others.

 

We want others for fun, friendship, sex, camaraderie and all of the things that come with close relationships to other human beings. But with all of the relationships we've developed none can truly measure up to what Mrs. Ekies and I have. Our foray into the lifestyle was not and is not a test of our life together, but an exciting part of our life together. But you've already said all of this.

 

Some of it has to be driven by nature. Men are wired to spread our seed far and wide, increasing the chances that our bloodline continues. Women are wired to accept the seed of the strongest which increases the chances that their off-spring will survive. Mrs. Ekies has spotted a few that trigger her "strongest of the breed" senses and she goes about getting with them. I've spotted a quite a few that trigger what get gets triggered when men are thinking about sex and have attempted to spread my seed (my batting average sucks).

 

I really don't think that Mrs. Ekies is not enough for me or vice versa but the variety is nice. I believe that what we do is for fun and friendship and that we can walk away, if need be, at the drop of a hat.

 

It amazes even me how I can ramble. Sorry.

[Guest cpl4funindel]

Funny enough, this topic's been on my mind (Mr. Cpl) the last couple weeks as well... Interesting how these forums always seem so timely.

 

We've actually had some really good playtimes the last few weeks, and the Mrs. has been very turned on by these events (as have I ? ). Being the analytical person I am, that led me to start pondering that if this all went away tomorrow, would I still be enough for her. As with everything, we talked about it and both of us quickly came to the realization that this was the "icing on the cake" of an already remarkable sex life, and not a requirement or replacement for it. From the beginning, we've viewed this as a Team Sport, and through all of the changes in our thought processes and "socialization" in the LifeStyle, we've also grown dramatically as a married couple. Looking at it that way, swinging has not only been a Helluva lot of fun, but has made us stronger in many respects.

 

So to answer the question, are we enough for each other? Absolutely... In fact, we've become even more to each other thanks to our experiences in the LifeStyle.

 

Just my .02.

[CXXC 435]

Having read your ponderings I would ask one question

 

Do you and your wife play as a couple or as two singles?

 

Playing only as a couple means there is no "doing it behind the back" of the other partner.. I know this is going to draw fire from those that do play as singles, but your points you ponder would be valid, if that was the case..

 

In our case we shared a fantasies with each other and then after much discussion on the point of safety and all the other concerns we overcome when we atart out doing this, it was clear that we both enjoyed sharing our playtime, as we shared it with others..

 

Seeing her pleasured by another guy, or providing such pleasure in turn to either sex.. living out fantasoes of 2 men at the same time, enjoying anther woman, playing with another couple, playing with two other couples.. all of it, of course there were pangs of jealousy the first few times, but we use the same mentality all the time

 

She/He is going home with me

 

We are free to do both solo and together. In my mind, it is still the same issue. It matters not if we are playing as a couple or individual, there is a need that the other has not been able to fulfil. We (and I consider everyone in th elifestyle in this) want something that is imposible for our partner to provide. We want the touch and feel of a different body.

 

However blessed I am to have Mrs. CXXC as my life long companion, I must admit that we are both found wanting.

[CXXC 435]

Ed & Bunny said:

I must say that I have also done some thinking after reading that thread. I agree it is not a lack of love, caring or devotion to one another that leads us to swinging. The best comparison I have been able to come up with is filet minon. As a steak it may be the best, juiciest, most tender thing on the market, but if you eat it every day, soon it will get boring. You have to eat other things to really be able to appreciate it.

 

I know this is not the best comparison, and I know I never tire of sex with Bunny, but for me swinging gives me a bit of variety and makes me appreciate what we have together even more. I dont care how good another gal is in bed, she will never be able to push my buttons the way Bunny does.

 

Just my thoughts on the subject.

 

That is a perfectly good analogy! (I love mine rare by the way) We, as humans are always wanting something different. Like the steak, our partners nourish and keep us happy and healthy, but in time, we want something different. The pallet begs for something new.

[CXXC 435]

WOW! What a great group! When I first thought of posting this question, I never expected the possibility that so many others would have had the same thought. Like minds and all, I guess.

 

In reading each of the replies to my question, I had one repeating thought based upon each answer. Let me try to quote and answer them as doing so individually will be quite an undertaking on a monday morning.

 

DAVE_KAT: 2. In the animal kingdom, the survival of the species is to "spread their seed far and wide." There are very few, if any monogamous species out there. I can name a couple, Wolves, Ducks and Hawks. Im sure there are others.

 

Ms. Fuse: "Define "enough". It is a slippery concept.-----However we define terms, I can say that before Mr. Fuse got into the lifestyle, we both knew about and accepted as natural the fact of finding others attractive. We both trusted the other absolutely, and still do, not to do something the other wouldn't approve of. Does that make us "enough" for each other? Did it make us unfulfilled? That's another slippery concept. We had everything we needed, but we each wanted more. We just would have held back on seeking it. You MUST know by now how ambiguity drives me nuts. That being said, my point has been made in yours and every other posters reply. If we had fantasies of our mates and only them, if we desired only our SO and no other, if our eye looked upon them as the most beautiful, then and only then would that person be enough for us.

 

Fun4D's: It's about enjoying who we are to each other and what we do have. That defines us as a couple. It does not, however cover the matter at hand. True as it may be, we are still wanting. No matter how much in love or how perfect our relationship is.

 

LFM2: I can honestly say that I've had my share o fantasies and desires. They involve more than one person, so while Dave can still be in my fantasy, it requires more than just him. It also gave me a chance to sate my curiosity of bisexuality. So, this was just one venue to try swinging. However, I can never say that Dave is not enough for me. He is more than I ever dreamed of. In your very first reply you prove my point. Dave my be more than you ever dreamed of having in your life. He may be the best lover, best friend, best provider, best, BEST out there for you. That still does not keep your mind from presenting fantasies of another. It does not halt the desire to know of another touch, feel, taste or sex. It is a comfort to you. It is a security blanket to your emotional side. It is not, however, enough for you as a whole human being! You are, at the end of the day, still found wanting something else. Even if you left the lifestyle or never entered it, you would have the thoughts and desires. The fact that they exist is proof again, that NO ONE PERSON can EVER be enough for another.

 

Trace Ekies: I really don't think that Mrs. Ekies is not enough for me or vice versa but the variety is nice. I believe that what we do is for fun and friendship and that we can walk away, if need be, at the drop of a hat.

What you described in the beginning of your reply was having an exclusive relationship. No one can survive that and you do not keep yourselves exclusive. You incorporate others into your daily lives. Again, No one human being will EVER be enough for another. We need so much more to remain the social animal that we are. Regarding the LS and being enough for one another, I submit that as you both enjoy, plan, engage in and pursue the activities within the lifestyle, you are enacting desires that each of you could not fulfill for one another. It is impossible as you CANNOT be anyone else but who you are. Therefore, both of you will forever be lacking in at least a small percentage of complete fulfillment of the other.

 

Cpl4funinDel: So to answer the question, are we enough for each other? Absolutely... In fact, we've become even more to each other thanks to our experiences in the LifeStyle.

In all honesty, your words mirror my point the strongest. What you needed from one another in the past, you were able to obtain through the lifestyle. You agree to this in the bolded statment. It is just a different wording. Now that you have reached a point of enlightenment or closeness that you never knew before, if you are completely sated and need nothing more or your fantasies are no longer a part of your sexual makeup, if you no longer look at another person and consider the possibility to bed them, then I could say, yes, you are enough for each other. HOWEVER, I do not believe this is so. You will not stop fantasizing. You will not end your desires for another. You are human creatures who will always and forever want more! That lacking, that void you will always and forever feel is what keeps you from being enough for each other.

 

We are human beings with wants, needs, desires and for many, on a quest for self actualization. In these requirements, we are lacking. No one can fill them all. No one person can be all things at all time for another. Therefore, I submit, we are, in our humanity, never going to be enough for each other. No one individual will ever fulfill the sexual needs of another 100%. It is not possible as we are always wanting what we cannot (perception) have.

 

Now that I have said all of that, I ask the community for the reasons they think we are not 100% satisfied by our mates. What is it that makes them not enough for us? Is it fear? It cannot be a simple matter of programming from our beginnings as cave persons. I really think that the answer to this one question is what will define us as a community!

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

The general answer, IMO, is a little bit of both; Both Yes & No. Here's why.

 

You have fantasies to fulfill that require more than just you, and if you want to fulfill them then the answer is honestly - No, one person is not enough for me. But, you should also be able to walk away from swinging, if your partner can't handle it. If you can do that for them, then the answer is Yes, they are enough for you to be happy.

 

As others have said, it should be the icing on the cake... Cake's pretty good without icing, but I've always preferred the more icing the better... and some types of icing are better than others.

 

If you feel you truly could not be happy without swinging and your partner doesn't want to swing... then the answer is truly a resounding NO - your partner is not enough for you. At that point you have to take some time and really evaluate your priorities.

[Guest cpl4funindel]

JustAskJulie said:

The general answer, IMO, is a little bit of both; Both Yes & No. Here's why.

 

You have fantasies to fulfill that require more than just you, and if you want to fulfill them then the answer is honestly - No, one person is not enough for me. But, you should also be able to walk away from swinging, if your partner can't handle it. If you can do that for them, then the answer is Yes, they are enough for you to be happy.

 

As others have said, it should be the icing on the cake... Cake's pretty good without icing, but I've always preferred the more icing the better... and some types of icing are better than others.

 

If you feel you truly could not be happy without swinging and your partner doesn't want to swing... then the answer is truly a resounding NO - your partner is not enough for you. At that point you have to take some time and really evaluate your priorities.

 

Thank you Julie... Eloquent as always, and in my opinion quite correct. I was getting ready to follow up on my original post, but you summed it up beautifully.

[CXXC 435]

If I wanted to leave the lifestyle, Mrs. CXXC would do so willingly and happily as we mean more to each other than our sexual desires for anohter. That should be a standard practice with ALL couples. There is no argument there.

 

However, the deisre, and fantasies for others would still be with us. Our own thoughts and desires betray us here. The person with whom we give our entire heart and soul to is still not enough to quench our thirst for another. WE STILL FANTASIZE! That is a want! That is a desire! That is something that our mate CAN NOT FILL for us! Therfore, by definition, they are not ALL that we need and cannot be! They may be 99.43% of what we need. however, that .01% is still missing. The more I think of this, the more it reminds me of Zeno's Paradox. Even if we recieve 99.4399999999999----% of all that we need from our partner, we are still left with a remaining .0000000000----% unfulfilled. The number line will forever continue as we will never reach the same point in our need.

 

I hope I am making sense here. I simply cannot accept that ANY ONE can be EVERYTHING for ANYBODY! It is simply not in our nature as human beings.

[TNT 1,155]

CXXC said:

We are human beings with wants, needs, desires and for many, on a quest for self actualization. In these requirements, we are lacking. No one can fill them all. No one person can be all things at all time for another. Therefore, I submit, we are, in our humanity, never going to be enough for each other.

 

I was nodding in agreement up until...

 

Quote

No one individual will ever fulfill the sexual needs of another 100%. It is not possible as we are always wanting what we cannot (perception) have.

 

When you said "needs"...I paused. Need? What is a need? Something that is required, essential, very important. To me a need is something that one cannot live without it being fulfilled.

 

Desire, fantasy, wants...those are things that if not fulfilled, one can live without.

 

I fully agree with you that one person cannot be every thing at all times to another...humans are just too complex for that.

 

If I'm reading your thoughts correctly, what you're saying/asking is...that if one person could fulfill all your sexual desires/fantasies, why would you swing? They would after all be enough for you. (Am I totally off the mark here?).

 

Ted fulfills my sexual needs, hell even I can fulfill my sexual needs alone....a release through orgasm. Desire/want/fantasy fulfillment...those are different than a need IMO. Although he comes damn close to fulfilling all of those and I believe that he's a God at times...even he cannot fulfill my desire/want/fantasy of being surrounded by two male bodies, being fucked by one hard dick while I'm sucking another, by himself. It's physically impossible...it's also just a want, not a need.

 

I was always told "needs" and "wants" are two different things...Ted can be everything I need, but he can't be everything I want/desire at all times. On the flip side, I know I can't be everything he wants/desires at all times but, I do feel I can be everything he needs (sexually speaking).

 

I think it's through this recognition that neither of us can be all the other wants/desires all the time, that we're able to swing. We want each other to have everything they want and desire sexually, through swinging we can accomplish this. We not only get what we each want/desire sexually but, we also get to see the other getting what they want/desire sexually.

 

In a strange way that makes both of us enough for each other...we don't "need" swinging to make us happy...we just want/desire it for ourselves and for each other.

 

Teresa

[CXXC 435]

LM2

I must admit, you have me regarding the need to a certain point. Needs are met by doing what we can to keep each other complacent. However, EVERY human being will want more. that want/desire will eventually become a need. We will not feel fulfilled if that need is not met.

 

Look at the Filet Mignon analogy. It is great, tasty, nutritious but after eating it every day for a year, you will no longer want it but begin to crave and eventually NEED something else. If not, you will become stagnant. Your desire for filet mignon will diminish. It will be the last thing you want. You will almost come to resent the taste, smell, texture and idea of filet mignon.

 

We can live our entire lives together as man and wife yet after a time, our minds start to wander as we share each others bodies. We begin to superimpose the image of another lover onto the face of our mate. In our minds, we picture activities that we cannot (physically or gender based) do with our mates. The desire to enact these desires and fantasies becomes stronger than a want. In wanting, we then find our partners NOT 100% of what we NEED to fulfill our fantasies. The want transcends its normal realm into the position of a need to become FULLY complacent.

 

I may be skewed in my thinking. Perhaps I am not grasping the depth of the human capacity to be satiated with each other. My thoughts and deliberations may well have underestimated the abilities we process to overcome our wants.

 

In all honesty, i would love nothing more than to be proven incorrect in my thoughts here. That would enable me to safely and with conviction say that Mrs. CXXC is every bit 100% EVERYTHING I NEED and enough for me and I for her! Sadly, the debate has been unable to substantiate this argument.

[CXXC 435]

I did some deeper research on the issue and think I have come up with something that may answer the atter for most.

 

Want V.s Need

 

Need is based upon our physical well being. We need comfort in order to survive. Fod, shelter, water.

 

Want is the emotional responce discovered after the physical needs are taken care of. We want to be happy. sex, food options, entertainment, companionship etc...

 

Fantasy falls into the want catagory. We want to have a 3some. We want to be with other lovers. We want to see our mates happy... etc...

 

Wanting is evidence of an emotional void in our selves. When we want, we seek to fulfill that void. In the lifestyle, we fill it with others and activities with them.

 

The other definition is what is enough. I have eaten enough to sustain me. (Need)

 

I have eaten enough but want more pie (WANT)

 

By wanting more pie, we have not sated our taste buds. By wanting other lovers we have not sated our wants to be with others. There fore, we have not had enough. As our mates cannot be another person, they cannot be enough!

 

By not having enough, we are again reduced to wanting and the circle continues.

 

Please catch me here if I am incorrect!

[CXXC 435]

Someone PLEASE get me out of my own head here! This is taking up most of my brain power and I will NEVER be able to sleep tonight!!!!!!!!

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

The fantasy exists and would always exist. But, there would be fantasies whether they are swinger in nature or not. If it wasn't a swinger fantasy it would still be a fantasy of the hot guy on tv, or the hot woman at the office. They would exist. That doesn't mean that the one you love is not enough, that simply means that we are human. What marks the difference is what you do about that fantasy.

 

To say that one is not enough, is to go beyond having the fantasy and move towards acting on it (without their involvement). Those who cheat have said, by their actions, that their partner is not enough.

 

In swinging, we have admitted that to make our fantasies a reality require more than just that one. But the question is do we NEED (require) that our fantasies be a reality? That is the difference. In saying that our partners are enough and that swinging is the icing on the cake, we are in effect saying that we do not NEED to swing, we do not NEED to be with others beyond our partner, it is simply something WANT and would like to have and enjoy having.

 

We NEED To eat every day. We do not need to eat cake every day... even though some of us may WANT to.

[IvoryTowers 380]

I wouldn't want to be Mr. Ivory's everything! If I go away, then he has (is) nothing. I don't want Mr. Ivory to be enough for me because I don't want to think in terms of any human fulfilling me or making me happy.

 

To me, to suggest that a person fulfills a need or want in another person is perilously close to suggesting that person is an object. The logic goes: I need X to be happy (sexually fulfilled/financially stable). I want to be happy. Therefore, I need to keep X so that my happiness isn't lost or threatened.

 

We romanticize this idea--"You complete me" for example but also the long standing cliche of giving away one's heart. Since we'd literally die without our heart, this suggests that we would die emotionally without the other person. That introduces an element of fear and need into the relationship.

 

I'd rather acknowledge happily that Mr. Ivory will always need and want other people, interests and things in his life and that I will never be enough for him. What a terrible burden that would be!

[CXXC 435]

IT

Well put. It would be a horrible responsibiliy to be everything to one person. And the task of being everything or enough to enable another to not want any other individual in another capacity (sexual or not) is daunting, unatainable at best.

 

Again, I have to reiterate that wanting something is not the same as needing. This is agreed by myself and everyone here. however, can you not see that wanting something means that you dont have it? Not having it makes you incomplete as the act of wanting denotes a void in acheivement, possesion, desire, fantasy, companionship... the list oges on.

 

Again, if you dont have something, and want it, you are incomplete. In the lifestyle, you may want to have sex with another but not being able to will not really ruin your relationship with your mate. However, in that you want to do so, you are not fulfilling a fantasy. In not fulfilling a fantasy, you are not feeling fulfilled and your mate is unable to fill that void as they are not the pesron of your desire. Therefore, they cannot, by definition, be enough for you. Were they able to fill that desire, your want would be relieved and you would be complete.

 

Want = incomplete, unatained, unobtained, not done!

 

Not Enough= the inability to complete, provide, fulfill wholly!

[lustylearning 705]

We want things we do not have all the time. How we choose to deal with the predicament is entirely up to us. It can be a tragedy, an occasional challenge, or an "oh well, easy come, easy go." In this sense, it is all in the mind.

 

Desire is transient - almost entirely dependent on circumstances and availability. When we are fortunate enough to have our desires fulfilled, it's awesome, but at any time, things could change. I have heard it said and tend to agree, that resilience - our ability to recover quickly in times of change - is the key to happiness.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,023]

CXXC said:

Even if we receive 99.4399999999999----% of all that we need from our partner, we are still left with a remaining .0000000000----% unfulfilled.

Is it just a coincidence that Ivory soap is 99 and 44/100 percent pure? But some of you are not old enough to remember this fact. They used to print it right on the wrapper along with the picture of the Ivory soap girl. The little joke was whether the degree of purity referred to the bar of soap or to the girl.

 

BUT SERIOUSLY:

 

This is one of the most interesting questions to be posed for on-line discussion in quite a while. JoAnn says if it was just me, it would be enough. I say, if I had just her it would be enough. Both of us, however, know that there can be more, that there is, in fact, more. So we both feel free and we give each other permission to go for more.

 

Dianu (enough).

[YZF 8]

When we first got into the Lifestyle a bit over 2 1/2 years ago we imposed a whole lot of rules on each other. No coming in the mouth. No anal. After a couple of times that we played we realized that no matter how good the sex may be with another playmate, it is the life outside of sex that dictates if Mrs. YZF and I are enough for each other.

[CXXC 435]

YZF said:

When we first got into the Lifestyle a bit over 2 1/2 years ago we imposed a whole lot of rules on each other. No coming in the mouth. No anal. After a couple of times that we played we realized that no matter how good the sex may be with another playmate, it is the life outside of sex that dictates if Mrs. YZF and I are enough for each other.

 

I am forced to play the antagonist here.

 

If you are enough for each other, then why do you swing? Obviously, there are fantasies that neither of you are capable of fulfilling without outside assistance.

 

By that token, you are obviously NOT enough for one another.

[CXXC 435]

Before this topic can go any further, there needs to be a clarification of a few points.

 

1. Emotionally, we may be quite capable of fulfilling all the needs and desires of our mates. They too, may have the ability to so so for us equally! This is not in question. If we were not suited for our spouses, it is highly likely that the relationships would not survive the lifestyle. Emotions are far stronger than any physical desire. We love, trust and depend upon our So's. the support our desires and enable us to do the things that make us happy. That being said, I am not at all talking about an emotional support or fulfillment.

 

2. No matter how great your relationship with your spouse, SO or partner, you are in the lifestyle to fulfill specific fantasies or desires. By that fact alone, your spouse, SO or partner cannot fulfill that fantasy as they are but one individual in one body. Your desire for same sex, another body, multiple bodies or a different person proves the point. Your spouse, SO, partner cannot be anything but who and what they are to you and your relationship.

 

3. Want and need are two separate things.

You want to have sex with another.

You dont NEED to have sex with others.

 

4. In wanting, we are left with a void that is unfilled by others or ourselves. That void makes us incomplete. By the very understanding of this basic principle, we realize that when we are lacking in one area that cannot be filled boy our spouse, SO or partner, they are, by the virtue of being human, unable to fill that void.

 

PLEASE, ANYONE! Show me where this logic is incorrect!

[YZF 8]

I am forced to play the antagonist here.

If you are enough for each other, then why do you swing? Obviously, there are fantasies that neither of you are capable of fulfilling without outside assistance.

By that token, you are obviously NOT enough for one anohter.

 

For Mrs. YZF and I, swinging is not filling a need. It is just something we do to have fun. We were together for 5 1/2 years without even thinking about bringing someone else to our bed.

 

When the males that play with us are willing for a little male to male play, I am all for it. But if I never do it again I'll be just fine. Same with Mrs. YZF. She loves to eat pussy and makes the most of every opportunity to go down on another girl.

 

A couple of weeks ago we had a pretty extreme swap where we switched partners for a 3 day weekend. That one pretty much brought home how much more into each other we are than our play partners/

[ViSexual 1,008]

Every married person lusts for someone else every now and then. Even Jimmy Carter admitted to lusting in his heart once.

 

Some folks are content with just the occasional fantasy. Just like some people like to consider the thought of parachuting or scuba diving, but, when it gets right down to it, never give either a try.

 

Then there's those of us who are adventurers and feel that if it's worth fantasizing about, it's sure worth trying. Why let a little fear or apprehension keep us from the thrill?

 

I'm a military trained master parachutist and military trained scuby diver! Need I say more?

[CXXC 435]

For Mrs. YZF and I, swinging is not filling a need. It is just something we do to have fun. We were together for 5 1/2 years without even thinking about bringing someone else to our bed.

 

When the males that play with us are willing for a little male to male play, I am all for it. But if I never do it again I'll be just fine. Same with Mrs. YZF. She loves to eat pussy and makes the most of every opportunity to go down on another girl.

 

A couple of weeks ago we had a pretty extreme swap where we switched partners for a 3 day weekend. That one pretty much brought home how much more into each other we are than our play partners/

 

Truly? You mean to say that before your activities in th eLS, you had no thoughts, fantasies or desire to be with another person outside of your marriage bed?

 

You are correct in that it is not filling a need. Needs are core concerns. Food, Shelter, water....

Wants are emotionally based. Want to go on vacation, kiss your mate, have sex with others.

[CXXC 435]

Every married person lusts for someone else every now and then. Even Jimmy Carter admitted to lusting in his heart once.

 

Some folks are content with just the occasional fantasy. Just like some people like to consider the thought of parachuting or scuba diving, but, when it gets right down to it, never give either a try.

 

Then there's those of us who are adventurers and feel that if it's worth fantasizing about, it's sure worth trying. Why let a little fear or apprehension keep us from the thrill?

 

I'm a military trained master parachutist and military trained scuby diver! Need I say more?

 

I agree with you in your analogy here. But I ask, are yu telling me that your mate is enough for you based upon this information? Can you see where my argument can lead me to believe that this is not pobbible?

 

Just looking for answers to questions. This one has me boggled.

[CXXC 435]

SW_PA_Couple said:

Is it just a coincidence that Ivory soap is 99 and 44/100 percent pure? But some of you are not old enough to remember this fact. They used to print it right on the wrapper along with the picture of the Ivory soap girl. The little joke was whether the degree of purity referred to the bar of soap or to the girl.

 

BUT SERIOUSLY:

 

This is one of the most interesting questions to be posed for on-line discussion in quite a while. JoAnn says if it was just me, it would be enough. I say, if I had just her it would be enough. Both of us, however, know that there can be more, that there is, in fact, more. So we both feel free and we give each other permission to go for more.

 

Dianu (enough),

 

I personally think it was the soap. Haven't met a 99.44% pure girl yet!

 

The fact that both of you realize, accept and want more works against your thoughts of being enough for each other. As it is, there is NOT just you or her in your thoughts or fantasies. There is desire to have, well, MORE!

[lustylearning 705]

PLEASE, ANYONE! Show me where this logic is incorrect!

 

Completion is not dependent on fulfillment of desires.

[TNT 1,155]

CXXC said:

The fact that both of you realize, accept and want more works against your thoughts of being enough for each other. As it is, there is NOT just you or her in your thoughts or fantasies. There is desire to have, well, MORE!

 

So...just because you want “more” that means you aren’t happy, content or satisfied with what you have...it’s not enough?

 

I think because we are “enough” for each other, is what allows us to swing successfully. Because we’re enough, it’s a take it or leave it attitude we have about swinging.

 

Enough meaning...I am totally, unequivocally, unconditionally, satisfied, happy and content with Ted. Should I never touch another man or woman the rest of my life I would still remain ecstatically happy and sexually fulfilled and content beyond what most people ever dream or get to experience in their lives. No more is required...he, and what I have with him is enough that my happiness and contentment in life is beyond question.

 

I know there is more sexual variety out there, more sexual fun to be had beyond what Ted and I can accomplish with just the two of us...More is nice, more is fun, more is exciting...not only to think about but to actually partake of but...more is not required for either of us to be happy, content and fulfilled.

 

Yes there are sexual wants/desires/fantasies that Ted and I cannot fulfill for each other by ourselves...we know this, aren’t threatened by it and chose to help each other fulfill them..not because either of us felt that if they weren’t fulfilled there would be a void in our lives but, because we could. A want doesn’t necessarily equate to a void, that if not filled, will develop into a need. Had we not made the choice to swing, we would have been just as happy, content and fulfilled.

 

Just because you want something...sexual variety, a new car, a new house, whatever, doesn’t mean that what you do have isn’t enough for you to be totally fulfilled and ecstatically happy.

 

Wants/desires/fantasies are fleeting things...they come and go and change as time goes on. Some are meant to be filled, some aren’t, some must be filled and others are just those things that you say...”Yes, I want that, I desire it but, should I never get it/experience it, it’s not that big of a deal, I'm happy right where I am”.

 

So...to answer your question...

 

CXXC said:

If you are enough for each other, then why do you swing? .

 

We swing because we are enough for each other.

 

Teresa

[NCfuncouple98 367]

TNT said:

So...just because you want “more” that means you aren’t happy, content or satisfied with what you have...it’s not enough?

 

I think because we are “enough” for each other, is what allows us to swing successfully. Because we’re enough, it’s a take it or leave it attitude we have about swinging.

 

Just because you want something...sexual variety, a new car, a new house, whatever, doesn’t mean that what you do have isn’t enough for you to be totally fulfilled and ecstatically happy.

 

So...to answer your question...

 

We swing because we are enough for each other.

 

Teresa

 

Ditto.

 

Do we have everything we want in life itself? Hmm. House could be bigger, bigger shower, hot tub in the backyard, newer furniture, prettier landscaping, kids who listen more often . . . . .

 

But does that mean we don't have what we need to make our lives feel completely fulfilled? No, it doesn't.

 

It's ok to want more, that's how we as human beings set goals and reach for them. It's ok to have wants and desires. Actually, It's GOOD to have wants and desires!

 

But when you fall asleep at night knowing that you are happy with your needs being met, and happy with what you have, not what you don't have, that's what makes life worth living.

 

So yes, Mr CXXC, Mr. NC is absolutely enough for me. I can walk away from swinging with no regrets if that's what we agree we want. Because he is enough, always has been. But, should we choose to continue, we just like having a little bit of naughty fun every now and then!

[CXXC 435]

lustylearning said:

Completion is not dependent on fulfillment of desires.

 

Lustylearning

 

By the definition of the terms, completion and fulfillment are virtual siblings as they equate themselves with a finality ir wholeness through the end result of an action.

 

Fulfilled: 1archaic : to make full : FILL 2 a: to put into effect : EXECUTE b: to meet the requirements of (a business order) ? to bring to an end d: to measure up to : SATISFY

 

Completed: 1 a: having all necessary parts, elements, or steps b: having all four sets of floral organs cof a subject or predicate : brought to an end : CONCLUDED 3: highly proficient 4 a: fully carried out : THOROUGH b: TOTAL, ABSOLUTE cof a football pass : legally caught

 

Completion most definitely depends upon fulfillment and visa versa!

[CXXC 435]

TNT and Mr/Mrs. NC

 

Please, do not take this debate as a slight against your relationships or as a personal attack against either of you. I am on a quest for the absolute answer here. My conclusion to this point is that NO MATTER what is said, no matter how well believed, no matter how strongly anyone feels, NO ONE, can ever be enough for ANYONE.

 

I beg to be proven incorrect in this point yet there has not been a solid retort that stands strong enough against the logic or reason I pose.

 

In order to be enough, one must be completely and utterly all that the other needs. As we cannot survive with just one human being in our life without other social outlests, that makes my point even stronger.

 

Enter the lifestyle. Truly, it matters not if you are a member of this wonderful community or not. If you have fantasies, you desire something that you do not have. If you dont engage in these fantasies, you are left wanting.

 

If you walk away from the Lifestyle and stick to just your mate, that does not negate the desire nor fantasies you hold. It simply limits your activities. Yes, your mate may be everything you need emotionally. They may be a great provider, husband, wife, lover, friend, confidant etc.... But you still wish for something else. In that wish, you have want. In that want, you are incomplete. In your being incomplete you are not whole. As not being whole, you have a void. In that void, your'e mate, alone, is incapable to fulfilling you! Therefore, they are not enough.

 

That is the fact and the reason of the argument.

 

I hope I have made this clear to everyone.

 

Again, please prove me wrong. I would prefer to go through my life knowing that Mrs. CXXC is my EVERYTHING. I would love to know that she is enough for me. However, based upon the terms. definitions and realities of man kind, I cannot feel such at this time

[TNT 1,155]

Never felt your debate was an attack upon anyone’s relationship Only those who are in said relationship IMO, can truly define it. From the very beginning, people have shook their heads at mine and Ted’s relationship...some have envied it but none have ever been able to define it or understand it. I also don’t feel as if you have given any personal attacks.

 

Where you don’t think or feel that anyone or anything can ever be enough for one person because they still have wants...I feel differently.

 

Enough is when no more is necessary and/or desirable...something has been met to the required degree or extent..

 

Yes, I still have wants/desires/fantasies...not only sexual but material as well...however, what I have is enough that my happiness is not in question. When you’re happy with what you have, that is enough...you may want more but more wouldn’t make you any happier.

 

CXXC said:

Again, please prove me wrong. I would prefer to go through my life knowing that Mrs. CXXC is my EVERYTHING. I would love to know that she is enough for me.

 

I’m not sure anyone can prove you wrong...in this particular case we’re all seeing things differently.

 

Let me ask you a couple of questions...if you lost everything you have today except Mrs. CXXC would you still be happy? (I'm not talking about happy with your material circumstances, but happy within yourself). If you two were the only two people left on earth would she sustain you mentally, emotionally and physically that you’d be content and happy? In both cases you’d still want more but...if you were happy, you’d have enough.

 

IMO, happiness and contentment is the degree that measures what is and is not enough. Only the individual can determine their extent of happiness and therefore their extent of what is or is not enough...it comes from within and will be different for everyone.

 

Teresa

[fun4Ds 1,097]

TNT said:

So...to answer your question...

We swing because we are enough for each other.

Teresa

 

I thought this was the ultimate answer I don't see how it could be over looked or unheard..... All comparisons I heard from others didn't hold a candle to this one statement. Even my own......

 

Mrs fun even said and almost posted a comment, because we do have differences. When I said "we enjoy what we have". Mrs fun thought "appreciate" would have been her choice of words.

 

Why I say this, is because listening to your thoughts it's almost saddening in a way. I do believe you are looking for a genuine, personal answer. I find it admiral that you share this. I would like to believe this thread is not just a "swinging/lifestyle debate"

 

I am going to try again with comparisons. Sometimes my communication skills are poor (keep that in mind )

 

Its like........ for us, we are complete. Our hearts are full, our lives are full together. Swinging is about sex with others, Right. Unless we consider a Polly relationship, of which we have considered. But I have to focus on just swinging for now, unless its actually Polly your talking about ?

 

Say for us, our cup is full.....With each other. But we have more to give. It's not about needing anyone to fill any part of that cup. It's about what overflows. Without that overflow, I doubt we would be swinging at all. That's what we share, that is what we find the most enjoyable from others.

 

Have you ever felt that ?

 

They, or some, have that "over flow" as well. We have experienced couples who lack that fullness..... We have felt this from them a few times and for us, again, its saddening almost. The only thing sadder would be those who have no desire to find "their" answers..... Their place in their relationship and the lifestyle....

 

I think if we were ever to find/ demonstrate proof of that. It would be the times on our weekend getaways. When people don't show up or we don't fulfill that sexual fantasy perhaps. It's not that we are cold and it doesn't matter to us. We hope they are OK, but we have each other. Its not frustrating to us that we went this far to carry a desire out and their not being there, took anything away. Maybe thats why we have less complaints about others and really don't have big issues in swinging..... Its not about what we miss in fulfillment its more about what they missed that we had to share..... what we have, more of. We feel no feelings of recoil its just they missed out on sharing what we have to offer. We have a great experience ourselves,charged with that "extra" alone.....

 

Now say for example as I see your point of view, considering you feel a "not enough for each other". I don't find that debatable. In fact, I almost feel like we are agreeing. We are just an example of both sides of the coin.

 

The only thing that fucks up or flaws our ideas, is that damn chemistry thing. Then, the alignment of the stars and actually getting together with the right people on the same night, day or weekend.....

 

I mean I'm just sayin'..... Do you gravitate more toward those who have or feel "more than enough" (In Swinging)

 

Does Mrs CXXC offer enough to feel that balance within your own relationship ? Is that part of why you feel comfortable and acceptance with the "not enough feeling" ?

 

I really hope you find your answers here. There were so many question marks in your original post....

 

I could go on to my feelings about Polly, because it does overlap. But does what I say so far, make sense ?

 

I hope its not in vein, I smashed my left hand a few weeks ago and this typing was not only mostly one handed, but also as therapy for the other. I'm starting to be able to YAK again

[Guest cpl4funindel]

So...to answer your question...

 

We swing because we are enough for each other.

 

Teresa

 

Beautifully stated... This sums up our feelings on the subject perfectly.

 

Mr. Cpl.

[CXXC 435]

Fun4Ds

 

I wanted to reply to your statement,

 

Quote

Why I say this, is because listening to your thoughts it's almost saddening in a way. I do believe you are looking for a genuine, personal answer. I find it admiral that you share this. I would like to believe this thread is not just a "swinging/lifestyle debate"

 

Do not be saddened. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the relationship we have. Mrs. CXXC and I are deeply in love and are more to and for each other than any other human being could ever be. Our relationship may not be EVERYTHING we need from each other, but it is as close as anyone can get to it.

 

My post is not just another thought thread. I am earnest in my search for a true and supported solution to the matter. At this point, however, I cannot see one. I have not heard or read anywhere a definitive or proven point where we can be enough for one another. It is not a bad thing. It is simply a flaw in the human animal.

[CXXC 435]

Teresa

 

In answer to your statements:

 

Quote

 

I’m not sure anyone can prove you wrong...in this particular case we’re all seeing things differently.

 

Let me ask you a couple of questions...if you lost everything you have today except Mrs. CXXC would you still be happy? (I'm not talking about happy with your material circumstances, but happy within yourself). If you two were the only two people left on earth would she sustain you mentally, emotionally and physically that you’d be content and happy? In both cases you’d still want more but...if you were happy, you’d have enough.

 

IMO, happiness and contentment is the degree that measures what is and is not enough. Only the individual can determine their extent of happiness and therefore their extent of what is or is not enough...it comes from within and will be different for everyone.

 

 

The fact that we see things differently is also part of the issue at hand. Some cannot understand the reality of human nature to always want more. That want makes it impossible to have one person be completely enough for us.

 

This has nothing to do with our happiness as a whole. Your question makes this plain and simple. If I lost all material and had Mrs. CXXC beside me, I would be happy in that we were a team and could obtain it all again and still had each other. I had not lost the one thing that mattered most to me, her.

 

Happiness may be the scale with which we measure what is enough, however, that scale changes as the novelty wears off. Again, we end up wanting more or something different.

[Speed & Trixie 162]

Ok, Mr. CXXC, you got me

 

Speed and I have gotten into the lifestyle in a roundabout way. We are extremely close and have a fantastic relationship. We love each other and are committed to "us" as a couple.

 

That said, I have to admit that NO, Speed does not meet every need for me. Is he enough for me? Oh hell yes. Would I be happy quitting swinging altogether and just being with Speed? Probably. Would I feel that something is missing? Yes.

 

I know that sounds like a contradiction (ok, it IS a contradiction), so let me explain. I'm bisexual. Being with Speed is amazing, and I doubt very much I'd feel like I'm "missing out" on anything a man could offer by just being with Speed. But I think I would miss the (newfound) freedom to explore the other part of my sexuality, which is part of my identity. So in one way, I would, perhaps, feel unfulfilled.

 

The best thing about Speed is that he understands this about me. Trust me, that understanding did not come easily or quickly. I've lived without being with women for most of my life, so it's not like I can't, but it's awesome that I don't have to!

 

So is Speed enough for me? Yes, because he gives me everything I need -- which happens to include having sex with others (specifically women).

 

Trixie

[CXXC 435]

Ok, Mr. CXXC, you got me

 

Speed and I have gotten into the lifestyle in a roundabout way. We are extremely close and have a fantastic relationship. We love each other and are committed to "us" as a couple.

I don't want anyone to surrender! I want people to prove me wrong or correct. I am so very happy for you and for everyone else in the lifestyle who happens to have such a deep and committed relationship with each other! It would be wrong for me to assume that Mrs. CXXC and I are the only ones to feel that union alone! What a horrible world it would be if we were the only ones.

 

That said, I have to admit that NO, Speed does not meet every need for me. Is he enough for me? Oh hell yes. Would I be happy quitting swinging altogether and just being with Speed? Probably. Would I feel that something is missing? Yes.

do you not see the conflict in your own words here? He is "enough" for you but you would still feel something missing. this is a contradiction that only proves my point.

 

I know that sounds like a contradiction (ok, it IS a contradiction), so let me explain. I'm bisexual. Being with Speed is amazing, and I doubt very much I'd feel like I'm "missing out" on anything a man could offer by just being with Speed. But I think I would miss the (newfound) freedom to explore the other part of my sexuality, which is part of my identity. So in one way, I would, perhaps, feel unfulfilled.

I agree with your contradiction. He cannot fulfill you desire to be with another woman. Therefore, he cannot be "enough". He is almost enough in that he is only able to enable you to fulfill your desires. He cannot actively fulfill them himself."

 

The best thing about Speed is that he understands this about me. Trust me, that understanding did not come easily or quickly. I've lived without being with women for most of my life, so it's not like I can't, but it's awesome that I don't have to!

Speed's understanding of your desires is a blessing. his willingness to encourage and enable your desires is a marvelous gift of self. It is his gift to you.

 

So is Speed enough for me? Yes, because he gives me everything I need -- which happens to include having sex with others (specifically women).

 

 

Trixie

 

He does not GIVE you everything you need. That which he cannot physically give you (not being a woman himself) he enables, he supports and accepts. He, therefore, cannot be everything but can enable, support and accept everything.

[TNT 1,155]

CXXC said:

The fact that we see things differently is also part of the issue at hand. Some cannot understand the reality of human nature to always want more. That want makes it impossible to have one person be completely enough for us.

 

Awww but...because we do see things differently and because we are humans...which I do believe that we've agreed are complex creatures...it also can be said that...for some, even though there is "want" there is a point where you reach enough.

 

I wanted six children...I had four...trust me, at the fourth I had reached a point of enough, even though a small part of me still wanted six. Four was the number I felt deep down inside that satisfied all my maternal instincts and desires. Some would think four is too many, others four is enough and still for others four is not enough.

 

Quote

This has nothing to do with our happiness as a whole. Your question makes this plain and simple. If I lost all material and had Mrs. CXXC beside me, I would be happy in that we were a team and could obtain it all again and still had each other. I had not lost the one thing that mattered most to me, her.

 

Happiness may be the scale with which we measure what is enough, however, that scale changes as the novelty wears off. Again, we end up wanting more or something different.

 

I do believe happiness has everything to do with it. It is what we base having lived a life without regret on. If there is regret for not having a "want" fulfilled..then one has not achieved enough...If there is no regret for not having a "want" fulfilled...one has achieved enough.

 

Even though swinging was a "want"...had it never been fulfilled there would have been no regrets...we had (and still have) enough in each other.

 

Teresa

[CXXC 435]

I am at a loss! I am not certain that I am articulating the correct message here. I really dont want to sound like a broken record but let me walk through this again. Pehaps, my inability to communicate my point correctly will be resolved.

 

To fantasize is to realize a desire. To desire is to recognize a want. To want is to have a void. To have a void one cannot be whole.

 

In that we have an aspect missing from our completion, and our mates are unable to fill that void through action or gender, they by design or inability are not enough to make us whole.

 

Happiness in ones life, although important and good, does not dictate that we are complete in any way. We may be content (happy with what we have) but cannot be 100% fulfilled.

 

At the end of the day, we may be able to look back at a life without regret for not having done this or for having done that. However, in not having or doing what our fantasies, desires or wants held for us, we are still without. We are incomplete beings. We may be content in being incomplete, but that is still not being 100% whole.

 

We may be satisfied with the activities we have engaged in without others, yet we still did not do everything. The inability of our mates to provide us with the abilities to satiate us themselves in our fantasies makes them less than 100% of what we need. We need others to fulfill those fantasies, desires or wants. It matters not that we are happy with what we received in life in this regard. It is a simple truth that our mate cannot provide us with EVERYTHING we need. By the acceptance of this fact, we are left with the understanding that they are not “enough” for us.

 

Please tell me if I missed the mark again. I really hate to repeat things or to beat a dead horse. I fear I may even be wearing on the patience of this community in my argument!

 

Thanks you for your thoughts tho! They have helped me in my own arguments within in this regard!

 

LONG LIVE THE BOARD!!!

[TNT 1,155]

I too am at a loss...although it's been fun, I fear you and I will never see eye-to-eye on this.

 

I stand firmly in my belief that it is only the individual themselves who can determine what is and is not enough for them.

 

Teresa

[LFM2 1,482]

Mr. CXXC, I clearly understand what you're trying to say, however, I have to agree with TNT myself.

 

Like I said, Dave is more than enough for me. Even though I have thoughts and desires that he can't provide, that is not his "not being enough for me"; that is me being one of those completely, complex human in thought and form.

 

Enough meaning...I am totally, unequivocally, unconditionally, satisfied, happy and content with Ted. Should I never touch another man or woman the rest of my life I would still remain ecstatically happy and sexually fulfilled and content beyond what most people ever dream or get to experience in their lives. No more is required...he, and what I have with him is enough that my happiness and contentment in life is beyond question.

 

Our thoughts completely... except change Ted's name to Dave.

[CXXC 435]

Holly and Teresa

 

Perhaps it is a simple matter or perception. One may perceive wholeness in what they have while others deem themselves as incomplete. That does make one seem negative or pessimistic at best.

 

I am still unable to rectify the matter as the terms afforded me point to my initial assumptions.

 

Perhaps it is time to let this discussion go. I am not one to beat a dead horse. I fear I have been doing so for a while now.

 

Thank you and EVERYONE for your time and efforts here.