Are they enough for you?

[Dave_kat 227]

CXXC,

 

You are perhaps looking for an absolute in life. I, even being military, have never found one. But I think you also look at things a little differently, and are perhaps overthinking this one.

 

You want to be sure that Mrs. CXXC is your absolute fulfilment? Try to imagine life without her? Could you readily move on to another? I for one, if Kat died, would probably crawl into a corner for months and die myself. That for me says that Kat is the one for me, that she is my EVERYTHING.

 

As I said before, we're not monogamous by nature, but I think we're getting into an emotional confusion here when we bring swinging into the picture. Your reasoning of fantasize yielding to desire implying a void meaning not whole is flawed. Can swinging be termed as two people experimenting and enjoying life?

 

Swinging is experimentation and learning and enjoying the pleasure that combinations of 2 or 3 or 4 or more can bring to the table. It does not imply that you are unhappy or unfulfilled, but that you seek to experiment and enjoy life. The fact that you choose to do so together does not at all imply that you are unfulfilled, but that you both have a interest in doing new things together. Do you ever go to a new restauraunt opening to find out what is different, to try new things? Did you go to the Savannah food festival to try out new foods? Does this relate at all to not being happy with either of your cooking? By your argument it does, when really you were out seeing what the world has to offer together.

 

We've all said we can drop swinging in a heartbeat and be happy with our SO without swinging. That in itself says this is the one I know I can be with and enjoy life to the fullest.

 

A little experimentation doesn't mean that you're not satisfied, it means that you are not a boring person and want to try new things. Heck, if I pulled out the Kama Sutra with Kat and we said.. oohhhhh, let's try this... and we did, we're fantasizing about something feeling good and then going for it. We're simply stating that we fantasize about creative ways to make each other happy.

 

You can overthink things IMO. I do it constantly, and have to be told to stop thinking and keep it simple. So I pose this to you - If Mrs. CXXC is who you want for the rest of your life, the one you can't live without, on both an emotional and physical level, and if the others you bring in are simply icing on the cake, then that by itself is the defining of 100% fulfillment and should be the simplest answer.

[CXXC 435]

Dave_kat

thank you for your input. I really never intended this thought to generate such discussion. It just goes to show how much people really do consider in the lifestyle.

 

CXXC,

 

You are perhaps looking for an absolute in life. I, even being military, have never found one. But I think you also look at things a little differently, and are perhaps overthinking this one.

I can assure you that I overthink things. It is in my nature and one of my best tools professionally. My view on life in general is, may times quite different than most. As for an absolute; I know there are none in humanity as we are all in flux on all levels.

 

You want to be sure that Mrs. CXXC is your absolute fulfilment? Try to imagine life without her? Could you readily move on to another? I for one, if Kat died, would probably crawl into a corner for months and die myself. That for me says that Kat is the one for me, that she is my EVERYTHING.

If Mrs. CXXC were to leave me or meet an untimely demise, my life would be halted and turned up-side-down for a long time. However, I also know that I would eventualy heal and life would still go on. She is also the ONE for me in every way I can imagine. However, based upon my thoughts and research, I also know that we cannot be "Enough" for each other as we need others inour lives to support us in different ways.

 

As I said before, we're not monogamous by nature, but I think we're getting into an emotional confusion here when we bring swinging into the picture. Your reasoning of fantasize yielding to desire implying a void meaning not whole is flawed. Can swinging be termed as two people experimenting and enjoying life?

I am not confusing emotion with physical at all. In fact, I have been looking at this with logic and logic alone. Emotionally, Mrs. CXXC is virtually everything I need. However, she is still not ALL that I need. I would not need friends or outside associates if this were true.

Physically speaking, I do not need another person, however, I have fantasies and desires of others. Having them makes Mrs. CXXC less than 100% all that I need and thereby not "Enough" for me as I am not "enough" for her. We are perfectly fine with this idea as we are with our emotional needs for friends and associates.

 

Swinging is experimentation and learning and enjoying the pleasure that combinations of 2 or 3 or 4 or more can bring to the table. It does not imply that you are unhappy or unfulfilled, but that you seek to experiment and enjoy life. The fact that you choose to do so together does not at all imply that you are unfulfilled, but that you both have a interest in doing new things together. Do you ever go to a new restauraunt opening to find out what is different, to try new things? Did you go to the Savannah food festival to try out new foods? Does this relate at all to not being happy with either of your cooking? By your argument it does, when really you were out seeing what the world has to offer together.

Your food analogy is lacking in that, if I want to try something, I will. There is nothing stopping me from doing so. If I am unable to, yet still desire to do so, I will be left wanting.

This is the same thing with the lifestyle. If I fantasize about beign with another woman or Mrs. CXXC does the same, Neither of us can be that other woman. That fantasy, desire, want, must be accomplished with another and not by each other. The third person is necessary to make this happen. That is how neither Mrs. CXXC nor I are capable of being 100% enough for each other. We cannot be so by physical or gender reasons.

 

We've all said we can drop swinging in a heartbeat and be happy with our SO without swinging. That in itself says this is the one I know I can be with and enjoy life to the fullest.

 

by the very definition of your statment above, you cannot be 100% fulfilled. The only way that will ever be possible is if BOTH of you have no desire or fantasy of another. As human beings, it is impossible to not want more or different.

A little experimentation doesn't mean that you're not satisfied, it means that you are not a boring person and want to try new things. Heck, if I pulled out the Kama Sutra with Kat and we said.. oohhhhh, let's try this... and we did, we're fantasizing about something feeling good and then going for it. We're simply stating that we fantasize about creative ways to make each other happy.

And in not fulfilling that fantasy, you are both left wanting and not complete!

 

You can overthink things IMO. I do it constantly, and have to be told to stop thinking and keep it simple. So I pose this to you - If Mrs. CXXC is who you want for the rest of your life, the one you can't live without, on both an emotional and physical level, and if the others you bring in are simply icing on the cake, then that by itself is the defining of 100% fulfillment and should be the simplest answer.

 

If only it were that simple. The human mind does not work this way. We have wants, and desires for more or different. In the end, we will all have said, if only I had done..... It is the nature of mankind.

 

Mrs. CXXC is, in my mind and heart, the best and greatest person I will ever have the pleasure to know. Our union is so deep and on so many different levels, I know that finding another to come even close to her will be nearly impossible. However, as I have stated before and hold to firmly, it is the nature of mankind to want more, to dream, fantasize and desire things that we may or may not be able to have or do. In our relationships, our mates are unable to fulfill these desires and fantasies as they are limited by either gender or by being who they are and not the object of our desires. This dictates that they can not be enough to fulfill our fantasies!

 

I hope you can understand the argument here.

 

Thanks for your thoughts and the effort you put into them.

[Dave_kat 227]

CXXC said:

 

I am not confusing emotion with physical at all. In fact, I have been looking at this with logic and logic alone. Emotionally, Mrs. CXXC is virtually everything I need. However, she is still not ALL that I need. I would not need friends or outside associates if this were true.

Physically speaking, I do not need another person, however, I have fantasies and desires of others. Having them makes Mrs. CXXC less than 100% all that I need and thereby not "Enough" for me as I am not "enough" for her. We are perfectly fine with this idea as we are with our emotional needs for friends and associates.

 

Therein lies the problem. We cannot use a single aspect of ourselves to define this. Logic and logic alone is only one half of our thinking process. Where do we account for the emotional and the physical aspects of our beings?

 

By logic alone we would say we are never satisfied with our lives nor everyone around us. Hence it being Human Nature to always want more.

 

Yet we don't form truly deep emotional attachments with those we play with.

 

CXXC said:

Mrs. CXXC is, in my mind and heart, the best and greatest person I will ever have the pleasure to know. Our union is so deep and on so many different levels, I know that finding another to come even close to her will be nearly impossible. However, as I have stated before and hold to firmly, it is the nature of mankind to want more, to dream, fantasize and desire things that we may or may not be able to have or do. In our relationships, our mates are unable to fulfill these desires and fantasies as they are limited by either gender or by being who they are and not the object of our desires. This dictates that they can not be enough to fulfill our fantasies!

 

Maybe we're looking at this wrong? The question is "Are they enough for you?" and you yourself just answered that there. It is man's nature to always want more, to dream, to fantasize - That is what defines us as human. But the question itself is defining the lower limit - Are they enough? Can you stop exactly where you are and be happy?

 

Wanting more is a given, we all want more money, we all want more time, we all want the taste of something new. But this becomes open-ended. "Are they enough" is a question of baseline and not of the upper limit. With that in mind, my humble response to all this is "Heck yeah, I want more, but I'm happy with what I have and wouldn't trade that in for the world."

 

That to me says I have enough, even though I want to continue to provide more and better things for my wife.

 

CXXC said:

To be truly “ENOUGH” she would no longer have fantasies of another’s involvement. I would not think of being with another woman. We would not imagine the touch and feel of another with such reverie!

 

I think to be truly "ENOUGH" is to ask the question of could we stop and be happy with ourselves for the rest of our time on this world. Since we've determined it's human nature to have wants and desires, since we would then be "Choosing" to not act upon them, and still be happy, then we have very successfully defined "ENOUGH."

[CXXC 435]

I find that this topic presents me with both frustration and enlightenment.

 

The frustration stems from my inability to justify logic with the illogical human mind.

 

My enlightenment comes from yours and the words of many, when put together to define what "Enough" truly means for humanity.

 

Logic dictates that we are not and cannot be fully satisfied with anything we have and/or are. Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs demonstrates this point clearly. Once we have achieved the base needs for ourselves and our loved ones, we are left with the most difficult task upon the pyramid. We are faced with Self Actualization. This coveted achievement is only reached when the human animal has performed specific acts within which it feels fulfilled. This may be in acts of community of self betterment. In regards to the lifestyle, the self actualization takes on the form of sexual fulfillment in fantasy achievement or the completion of desires. When these desires or fantasies are not met, we are not complete. This is parallel with our mates as well. They become part and party to our self actualization and the completion of goals. In the completion of these fantasies, our partners are ancillary yet necessary to make these goals reality. Without their approval or acceptance, we cannot move forward. Still, the fact remains, even with their approval, they cannot be all that we need for they cannot be the third (or forth, fifth, sixth……) party. Therefore, they cannot be all that is needed and therefore not enough to complete the fantasy, desire or want.

 

Perhaps man/womankind can be enough for each other at the end of the day if we are willing to accept that we will not be able to obtain or fulfill certain fantasies, desires or wants. Man has, from childhood, gotten used to disappointment, frustration and the idea that you don’t always get to have, do or be what you want. In this realization, some may take solace in the fact that they are still very much in love, a part of a strong and committed relationship and happy with or without the fulfillment of these desires.

 

Perhaps we have all become so used to the idea that we rarely if ever achieve our truest desires that these smaller, less important fantasies or wants matter little in the grand scheme of things. Our acceptance of this fact may well enable us to see our lot in life as a blessing and should not want for more than we are able to obtain in ordinary fashion. We may look upon our mates as enough to make us happy, though not the happiest, but happy enough to live in harmony with each other and those around us.

 

However, we will never know if anyone has lived a truly full and 100% complete life. We cannot follow their minds beyond the moment of passing. Until that time, we will never know and this discussion will be repeated in many forms and fashions until we can.

 

Further, I guess it is so human to be individualistic in ones perception of complete. I may not be complete in my life if I don’t make a million dollars while another will be more than happy being penniless. The distinction of enough is now a matter of perception. Logic loses yet another battle.

 

To everyone I have debated with, I concede. Your perception is correct, for you!

 

Thanks again everyone!

[fun4Ds 1,098]

You know, you make some really good points

 

Thank you, as well

[NCfuncouple98 367]

Mr CXXC

 

What is it you hope to gain from this discussion? What is it you are truly looking for? Do you feel inadequate in your relationship because you choose to swing? Or is it questioning "why swing?" if you are so happy with what you have?

 

Sometimes it is best to stay out of your head. A mind is a dangerous place to be. Logic and feelings mix like oil and water.

 

It's ok to question life in general, and I would expect nothing less, but sometimes you just have to go with your gut, and not question it.

 

Mr. NC

[TNT 1,155]

CXXC said:

 

To everyone I have debated with, I concede. Your perception is correct, for you!

 

Thanks again everyone!

 

As is yours for you!

 

It really was fun !

 

NCfuncouple98 said:

 

Do you feel inadequate in your relationship because you choose to swing? Or is it questioning "why swing?" if you are so happy with what you have?

 

Mr. NC

 

Having read enough (there's that word again ) of Mr. CXXC's post, I don't feel that he thinks or feels his relationship is inadequate by any stretch of the imagination.

 

He has represented a very logical debate...the problem (as I see it) is that feelings aren't logical...when one "feels" they have enough, for them it is true. Certain feelings are easy to define, others are beyond definition.

 

Well played Mr. CXXC !

 

Teresa

[CXXC 435]

Fun4Ds

 

Thank you. I hope my line of thought made others think a little.

 

 

NCfuncouple98 said:

Mr CXXC

 

What is it you hope to gain from this discussion? What is it you are truly looking for? Do you feel inadequate in your relationship because you choose to swing? Or is it questioning "why swing?" if you are so happy with what you have?

 

Sometimes it is best to stay out of your head. A mind is a dangerous place to be. Logic and feelings mix like oil and water.

 

It's ok to question life in general, and I would expect nothing less, but sometimes you just have to go with your gut, and not question it.

 

Mr. NC

 

Mr. NC

 

I do not feel guilty or question my relationship or decision to swing one bit. This debate was brought about by a thought I had while discussing such with Mrs. CXXC. I am no less happy with the outcome had it been the other way around. I crave information. I gathered information. I am a happy boy!

 

LFM2

 

Thank you for your kind words as well. Yes, you do know me well enough to state that I have no issues with my desires to swing.

 

Thank you to everyone. This board is amazing. So much discussion and thought over such a little question. I truly am impressed with how much the community got into the debate. That is truly wonderful!

 

Thanks agian!