Cheating: A different POV

[Spoomonkey 421]

If the deprived spouse informs the withholding spouse of their intent and the withholding spouse apparently holds the means by which to prevent the deprived spouse from pursuing a quest for sexual release and the withholding spouse elects to continue withholding sex, is any sexual contact by the deprived spouse outside of the marriage considered "Cheating"?

 

I agree with the others - great post.

 

I am going to veer a bit because I think it IS cheating. You can't change the rules mid-game without an agreement.

 

However, in a situation like this communication is not very likely and an agreement is probably not going to happen. I would respect more the spouse who puts it on the table. "This is what I am missing. This is what you aren't willing to do. This is what I am going to do about it. Ball in your court."

 

It is probably the best way to handle such a situation if a divorce is not practical for whatever reason.

 

If the withholding spouse cared enough, they'd see it as a "pee or get off the pot" moment. Chances are though, they'd just act like the victim and the honest guy would become the villain (sounds VERY familiar to me).

 

It wouldn't change our view on it. Like the others, I am still not going to make that problem a part of my life. Doesn't mean I don't get it. I do. And I can sympathize. I've been in that sort of marriage and I got out of that sort of marriage. There may be other ways to handle it than divorce, but personally we're not the solution.

[socolais 696]

There's something about the cheater's mind-set that just makes the whole playtime opportunity with them a big demotivator for us. Cheaters come into the situation with an enormous sexual need in their lives. If affects their psyche in a negative way and makes them significantly less desirable (my POV). The potential for future drama and the set-up to hurt someone not involved in the situation, just makes the decision easier. We wouldn't knowingly play with a cheater when desirable playmates are in such rich supply.

 

Cheaters cheat out of need. Swingers play because it's fun. There's a world of difference.

[RaysWays 31]

Seems to me that at this point one is, within a context of sex, parsing the meaning of 'cheating'.

 

The word used minimally means 'having sex without the knowledge of the partner'. Think of a therapist clinically describing a case to another therapist - 'he'd been cheating for several months when he left for New York...'

 

The word can additionally imply immorality (in a tone of disapproval), e.g. 'He'd already been cheating on her for months when he went to New York with that girlfriend'

 

Additude's example (the informed spouse) is cheating by the first meaning but not by the second.

 

OK, now take that example a step further: Is it cheating (by either def. or some third one) if the withholding partner is indifferent to it? How about if s/he couldn't care, like a married couple that has had no contact for two years?

[slevin 1,374]

So here is where the contentiousness of this post comes in. No one here has said anything about how no one should play with cheaters or that they shun people who would play with a cheater. Everyone has responded that they have reasons they won't play with a cheater, but that it is a personal decision. I know that is exactly what I have said and I've read other posts of a similar ilk. The fact that you kept harping on about it in the face of people saying exactly what Lustylearnings did is why you got a lot of backlash. You seemed to be saying that making a personal decision wasn't ok, purely by the fact that you ignored everyone else who made a good point. You might think that there is a lot of knee jerk reactions out there in the world, but I've not seen that here at all, on any topic.

[If_You_Please 81]

I'm interested in finding out why some people in a group noteworthy for its tolerant attitude are knee-jerk hardliners about cheating; also curious as to whether they react well to a more tolerant perspective (unoooo).

 

I think this is a classic case of comparing...um, two fruits that are different from one another. Promiscuity and cheating are two different animals. This "group" is "noteworthy for its tolerant attitude" towards promiscuity, casual sex, etc., not marital infidelity. Unfortunately, these two things intertwine with one another, most frequently under deception on the part of the cheater. Hence the wildly spraying hostility regarding the topic.

[sweet_tna 680]

Everyone has a take on it, I guess.

 

Yep, and that's exactly what you got. No point in being rude just because you didn't get the responses you wanted.

 

And for the record, my take on the matter: No. Even if I knew the guy and his circumstances and felt total sympathy for him, I would still choose not to have sex with him.

[RaysWays 31]

Yep, and that's exactly what you got. No point in being rude just because you didn't get the responses you wanted.

There weren't any responses I 'wanted' (other than ones that were on topic). Many people did make interesting, if not germane, points.

 

And for the record, my take on the matter: No. Even if I knew the guy and his circumstances and felt total sympathy for him, I would still choose not to have sex with him. =)

 

OK... now may I ask you: is this because you feel that it is 'wrong' in a moral sense (like it violates something spiritual)? A practical reason (drama, danger, whatever)? Because a cheater (including your friend) is dishonest and therefore at some gut level unappealing? Or - something else entirely (horseradish on his penis, whatever)?

 

Maybe 'all of the above and then some' is what you are thinking, but what reason is the most important?

[sweet_tna 680]

OK... now may I ask you: is this because you feel that it is 'wrong' in a moral sense (like it violates something spiritual)? A practical reason (drama, danger, whatever)? Because a cheater (including your friend) is dishonest and therefore at some gut level unappealing? Or - something else entirely (horseradish on his penis, whatever)?

 

Maybe 'all of the above and then some' is what you are thinking, but what reason is the most important?

 

Since you asked nicely . . .

 

Before I can answer your question(s), I have to consider something more basic. Is this person someone I'd want to have sex with in the first place? If not, the entire point is moot. If I'm not attracted to someone, it doesn't matter HOW I feel about his personal circumstances.

 

Assuming for a moment that I am attracted to this guy, feel bad about his circumstances, blah blah blah. Why wouldn't I have sex with him?

 

For starters, Mr. Sweet and I generally prefer to play with couples. We both like to be involved. And we don't play with vanillas, either. There's just too much potential for drama. Granted, this one only applies if the guy in question isn't already participating in the lifestyle. Again, there are reasons having nothing to do with whether a guy is cheating or not that would probably eliminate him as a potential playmate.

 

So the only way I could possibly see us considering a guy in his situation would be if he either had a "wing gal" to pretend was his SO, or if we decided to seek out a single male.

 

In the first case, it's likely we'd get that they're not really a couple, and would steer clear to avoid drama. And quite frankly, I don't care to be deceived.

 

In the latter case, unless the guy was honest enough to admit his circumstances, we likely wouldn't know and would have to trust our instincts as to whether he was truly single or not. If we felt he wasn't . . . yeah, we'd avoid him. Again, I don't care to be deceived, and would not want to take the chance that we are hurting an innocent party (remember, this is the case in which the guy lies).

 

Now IF we were to seek out a single male; IF I found him attractive and would consider playing with him; IF he were honest enough to tell us his true circumstances; IF we actually believed him (a whole 'nother can of worms) . . . Sigh.

 

Do you see my point here? The answer would still be no. I'd feel bad for the guy, sure. But hearing of his circumstances would kill the mood as sure as if he (fill in the blank with some other behavior that turns you off).

[Alura 2,774]

...

 

But - a knee-jerk "it's WRONG, period!" participant is precisely what you are not. ... Still unanswered is why some people are angry-reflexive rather than more like you. Whether they would be persuaded by responses like yours... I guess we'll probably never get to that.

.

 

I'll give this one a shot, Ray. I don't care so much if "it's WRONG, period!" I do care that it can be very dangerous and bring circumstances that I just don't want to deal with, period. I don't care how wronged the cheater may be. His/her offer to cheat might gratify his needs but it does so at great risk to the person or persons he's endangering.

 

You seem to have ignored that aspect of cheating but it's the single most important issue to me. Today my brother, the one with poor taste in women, came over and told me about a married woman at work who has made it plain she's willing to cheat, even suggested they do it in the company break room! Fortunately, my Bro seems to have learned a lot from his previous mistakes and has (so far) refused.

[sweet_tna 680]

But - a knee-jerk "it's WRONG, period!" participant is precisely what you are not. Your response has breadth, is thoughtful, reasoned and non-judgmental, even sympathetic (and, um, nice rack). Your attitudes are more what I would have expected from this particular set of people, regardless of where they came down on cheating. Still unanswered is why some people are angry-reflexive rather than more like you. Whether they would be persuaded by responses like yours... I guess we'll probably never get to that.

.

 

Ah, but here's the thing. At the heart of it, I do believe that doing anything without your partner's knowledge and consent is cheating, and therefore (to me) wrong. Remember the part about me not wanting to be deceived? Well, neither Mr. Sweet or I wish to be a part of deceiving someone else.

 

Granted, more often than not, we'll never know the true story behind any potential playmate(s). That's where those "knee-jerk" responses come in. You've got to go with your gut feelings, and if your gut tells you that something is wrong in the state of Denmark...you walk away.

 

I think the folks here gave you more or less what you asked for, considering what a hot-button topic cheating tends to be.