Oral Herpes Etiquette

[chicago_couple 15]

Being paranoid, we've done some research into STDs and the chance of catching something during swinging. It seems that about 70% of people have oral Herpes Simplex Virus Type 1 (HSV-1). Oral HSV-1 can be passed to others as either oral or genital herpes. People are most contagious during a visible outbreak, but are also contagious at other times through asymptomatic viral shedding. Our questions are:

 

1) If you have oral herpes, do you tell your potential playmates?

2) If you tell people, is it just during an outbreak or all the time?

3) If you don't have herpes, what precautions do you take to prevent catching it orally or genitally?

4) Do you think people with oral herpes are obligated to tell potential playmates?

 

Even though 70% of people have oral HSV-1, we've never heard it mentioned at a swing club.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Basically a cold sore is oral herpes. So if someone has a cold sore you can pretty much assume that's what it is.

 

The question I would have is would you play with someone who has a cold sore? If so would you just avoid kissing them? allowing them to give you oral sex?

[Roxysbayou 20]

Originally posted by JustAskJulie

Basically a cold sore is oral herpes. So if someone has a cold sore you can pretty much assume that's what it is.

 

The question I would have is would you play with someone who has a cold sore? If so would you just avoid kissing them? allowing them to give you oral sex?

 

Maybe I am just to paranoid, but there is no way that I would even think of playing with someone who had a cold sore on their face! I never really got them, thank god, but I have had friends who did and they are horrible. I would not kiss and especially would not allow them to perform oral sex on me.

 

Roxy- (The Cold Sore Phobic)

[OhioCouple 40]

I'm with Roxy. No Way, No How!! No siree. I've never had a cold sore in my life and I don't want one now and neither has my hubby. I realize nothing is fool proof, but if I see a cold sore they are not kissing me anywhere.

 

In actuality for those who suffer with cold sores, I'd consider that a valid reason for breaking a swing date, I'd have more respect for them than if they just showed up ready to play with a swollen lip.

 

Lori

[chicago_couple 15]

I think the answer is pretty obvious if someone has a visible cold sore, but what about in between outbreaks? Should the person still warn you that they get cold sores occasionally and could still be contagious even though they don't have one now? Would you play with someone who does not have a cold sore at the moment?

[OhioCouple 40]

I am not bothered so much by those who get facial cold sores. I just don't want to be in physical intimate contact when they are active. Cold sores can begin at early ages and I've heard that it can be attributed to having had chicken pox. Some continue to have outbreaks, others do not.

 

I would like to think though that if someone had genital herpes that they would let their potential play partners know, so that they could make an informed decision as to whether or not to play with them or what additional precautions to take. I would have to bet that the vast majority DO NOT relay the fact that they are carriers of genital herpes, so it is a risk that you take any time you play.

 

Interestingly enough, I ran across a profile a few weeks ago in which they stated up front that they were carriers of herpes and never played when it was active. I have to commend them for being honest, and it doesn't seem to have affected their swinging sex life due to the amount of mail they have received.

 

As for swinging with someone that did tell us up front, I don't know what we would do. If we really liked them, I suppose condoms would be a must and I would trust that they would not meet during or immediately after an outbreak. I have never been in this position, or at least if I have, I didn't know it.

 

Lori

[ciscosv 26]

The unfortunate thing about cold sores is that alot of people are plagued by them. They are imbarrasing. The reason I think you rarely here about them is because so many people get them that they are accepted to some degree.

[Guest Seymore]

years ago, i read that herpes simplex (oral herpes) was an entirely different thing than genital herpes...that someone with oral herpes could not give someone genital herpes by performing oral sex on them. This makes sense, since cold sores have always been around and i dont believe there was any such thing as genital herpes until the 70's. Also, my first girlfriend got cold sores every winter and never passed anything on to me either through kissing or oral sex...

 

According to what youre saying, this idea is not true... so im a little confused...Are they really the same thing or not?...does anyone have any knowledge about this?

 

 

[Fire_and_Air 17]

Oral herpes (Herpes Simplex I) is a different strain from genital herpes. So someone with oral herpes will not transmit genital herpes to another through oral sex, but there is a risk that they will get infected with the Simplex I virus on other parts of the body aside from the mouth, although this rarely happens.

[Guest Seymore]

thanks, Fire and air...

 

so in other words, someone with a cold sore is not dangerous to kiss or have sex with, correct?...this is the way i understood it...

[Fire_and_Air 17]

Well, if you kiss someone who has an active case of oral herpes, you do run the risk of getting infected with that strain of herpes. And the same goes for playing with the infected person... any skin that comes in contact with the herpes sore may get infected. So, it's best to avoid contact with the affected area until it has fully cleared up...

[thesexmonsters 15]

Okay, here's what I was told recently by a friend who is a doctor regarding oral and genital herpes: You can have an outbreak of oral herpes, uh, elsewhere, one time as a result of sexual contact. And you can have an outbreak of genital hepes orally one time as a result of sexual contact. But if that happens, it will only cause that one outbreak. The oral herpes (cold sore) virus can only really live in the nerves around your mouth. The genital herpes virus can only live in the genital area. That seems to be the latest news on that.

 

That being said, we would never play with anyone who had any visible signs of, well - anything. And we would hope that anyone who had anything more serious that cold sores would either let us know or not be playing with others at all. We realize not everyone would be that honest, but we have to hope that we are able to judge someone's character well enough. We are very discriminating about who we play with; getting to know someone as a friend first is a must. And we always use protection, so hopefully that will help, although there are no guarantees even with that...

 

- Mrs. Sex Monster

[imsnowman 34]

Because fear of STD's was one of the major stumbling blocks to our participation in swinging we have done extensive searching of the Internet for information. The following represents our best collection of Herpes info.

 

I'm going to quote a lot of info from various websites. The URL's will be at the bottom. For those who read all the way through I think you'll conclude that herpes is not particularly problematic, is most likely very common in the Swing population, and is rather easy to avoid IF you know that your partners have it. Condoms and abstinence during outbreaks and for a week or so following an outbreak will reduce ones risk from an infected partner to less than that from unprotected sex with a partners who's status you don't know.

 

We'd rather play with people who have herpes and are taking daily suppression dosages than people who don't know their status. Because many folks don't know their status or have played with folks who don't know their status we always play safe with intercourse. We do not use protection during oral sex. And, yes that is somewhat illogical but swinging period from the standpoint of risk is illogical.

 

Quote

Genital herpes is a contagious viral infection affecting primarily the genitals of men and women. It is characterized by recurrent clusters of vesicles and lesions at the genital areas. It is caused by the Herpes Simplex-2 virus (HSV-2), one of several strains of the Herpes Simplex Virus responsible for chickenpox, shingles, mononucleosis, and oral herpes (fever blisters or cold sores, HSV-1). While generally not dangerous, it is a nuisance and can be emotionally traumatic, as there is no cure.

Quote

Herpes simplex viruses include two distinct but closely related viruses, namely, HSV-1 and HSV-2. Both viruses can cause genital herpes. Roughly speaking, HSV-2 causes 90% and HSV-1 causes 10% of all genital herpes. Herpes simplex virus is a linear double-stranded DNA virus. HSV-1 and HSV-2 share approximately 50% homology of their genetic materials and they even express type-common surface antigens. It accounts for the high degree of cross-reactivity and the technical difficulty in differentiating the 2 viruses. On the other hand, HSV-1 & HSV-2 antibodies offer some degree of cross protection. Genital herpes is usually transmitted by sexual intercourse. Direct inoculation of virus occurs through contact with infected secretions or mucosal surfaces. Orogenital contact with a partner with type 1 herpes labialis can also result in genital herpes. Asymptomatic shedding of HSV is the most common mode of transmission of genital herpes infection. It is estimated that more than half of the HSV-2 genital infections are asymptomatic. Dr C.N.Look

This following info was gleaned from a very thorough search of the Internet.

 

As far as herpes specifically: 25% of the adult population has herpes. 3 in 12 persons we might meet at a club will have it. Of those 3, 2 won't even know it (They didn't realize what the initial symptoms meant and have been asymptomatic since.). A percentage of the individuals who do know will not acknowledge it. In any case, 1 of every 6 potential club partners will have herpes and not know it.

 

The following are some quotes from various papers I found on the Net:

 

Asymptomatic shedding is most likely to occur in the week before or after a recurrence.

 

Taking daily antiviral medication reduces the frequency of episodes of viral shedding. This may be particularly helpful when you first get the herpes virus, as viral shedding is more frequent in the earlier days.

 

Asymptomatic shedding occurs more frequently in the first few years after primary genital herpes and declines with time. Herpes simplex type 1, which causes an increasing proportion of genital HSV infections, is less frequently shed than is HSV type 2. The rate of shedding among men is similar to that of women. There is a positive correlation between symptomatic and asymptomatic reactivation: persons with frequent recurrences also have more asymptomatic shedding.

 

A recent study has begun to answer the question of whether a genital herpes patient taking a daily dose of an antiviral drug can lower the risk of transmitting HSV-2 to an uninfected partner. Three antiviral drugs are approved to treat or suppress outbreaks of genital herpes: acyclovir, famciclovir and valacyclovir.

 

Most clinically apparent outbreaks can be prevented by taking one of these drugs daily. In addition, daily dosages of acyclovir and valacyclovir reduce asymptomatic viral shedding by 95%.

 

Auto-inoculation: An infected individual can spread the virus to other parts of his or her body by touching an area shedding virus and then touching, scratching, or rubbing another susceptible part of the body.

 

Dr. Sherzer, the physician who frequently appears at Lifestyle conventions as an expert on STD's seems comfortable with using a NewSkin type barrier over the sites.

[ciscosv 26]

I believe it is extremely possible to pass a cold sore on to another part of the body. I have gotten cold sores for as long as I can remember. Since I was 15 or 16. They are a pain in the ass because once you feel a tingle, you know whats coming and it can't be stopped. I would sometimes wake up with one without symptoms. When I have a cold sore, I never kiss my wife or anybody else for that matter. I let her kiss me on the cheek though. I would never in a million years think about genital contact for the possibility of transmission. It's terrible on the lips. I dont want to think about how it would feel anywhere else. You can actually feel the viral shedding as it happens (seeps out of the blister). That may sound gross but it is how the virus spreads to other hosts. It is not very comfortable but just more annoying because there is nothing that can be done. They can last anywhere from 3 to nine days. I have sought out a perscription of aclovir sp? I never picked it up from the pharmacy. My thought is that I have a nuturally stron immune system and why supress something that can't be cured?

 

Here's something interesting. My wifes folks get cold sores. Her brother and sister get cold sores. My wife has never had a cold sore a day in her life. In the beginnig of our relationship, she always told me that it was ok to kiss her when I had a blister present as her parents did when she was young. I was firm it telling her that I would not want to risk transmission. They suck big time and I would feel horrible if she had to indure one of these. Plus I dont want to pass them on to any parts of our body. I am quite content with them being contained to my mouth.

 

A freind's significant other gets cold sores all the time. We all started talking about cold sores one night while out for cocktails. She proceded to tell me that she has gotten them in her eyes. I thought that was pretty shitty.

 

Alot of people get them and I would not be hurt if someone told me that they would keep their distance because I carry HSV-1. I dont blame you. I would not want to be in contact with a cold sore if I did not have one at the moment or with one present.

 

Can we call it the happys? I hate the word herpes. I got that term from Adam Corrola and Dr. Drew. I used to listen to their radio show Love Line years ago and liked the term happys. Just sounds a little more pleasant.

 

That's my time, GOODNIGHT!

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

LOL@Happy's

 

I posted extensively on this subject at one time a year or so ago. Most of the information is very clearly explained at the CDC site.

 

Yeah, if you swing protected or not the chances are relatively good that you have been exposed to some form of herpes from shedding because condoms are not totally effective.

 

Most people that have most STD's don't even know it and the chances of passing them when you don't show sympoms are generally rare. This is a very broad statement I realize, but the bottom line is the more people you have sex with the higher your chances are of being exposed.

 

The original question is valid. How about if you worded the question like this.

 

If you have had unprotected sex periodically within the last year or so are you required to disclose that?

 

Both HSV-1 (cold sores), and HSV-2 (transmitted sexually), can produce sores around the vaginal area, buttocks and thighs.

 

80 percent of people that have it show no symptoms (or don't recognize them), and millions of people have it. I believe it is estimated that 20% of sexually active adults carry it.

 

Another concern is genital warts. Human Papillomavirus. Approximately 20 million Americans are currently affected. If you have had more than three partners swinging or dating, the odds are about even that you have had sex with someone that has it. Again though if there are no outbreaks at time of sexual activity the odds are slim that it will be passed. Males recognize it much easier than females for obvious reasons.

 

Having been swinging for so many years with so many partners I have little doubt that I am exposed, but I show no symptoms. I believe they have new tests that may identify it even when you have no symptoms but the validity of the tests are not claimed to be extremely accurate and are very expensive last time I researched it, about a year ago.

 

I highly doubt that anyone would go to a swing date with bumps all over his cock though. On the other hand the warts can conceal themselves well in the vaginal folds, so even the affected female may well be unaware she is having an outbreak, and this I believe is why it has spread so widely.

 

Protection does indeed reduce the odds of transmitting genital warts quite effectively. I would suggest going to the CDC sight for more exact information though.

[BodyScape02 21]

Wow, some good and interesting (if frightening) information here. Thanks

[imsnowman 34]

Originally posted by BodyScape02

Wow, some good and interesting (if frightening) information here. Thanks

 

There is really no need to be frightened. Herpes is rather benign and most other STD's are easily cured.

 

Use condoms, avoid those individuals who don't pass your interview process and have fun.

[AnonDude 15]

PLEASE READ THIS - ALL OF IT:

 

There is a lot of good information here. My wife and I are carriers of HSV-1 and feel full disclosure with any potential partners is a must even though we haven't had an outbreak in nearly a year. I get cold sores - I would disclose it even when I am asymptomatic and she has gential HSV-1 (She had it before she met me) and discloses it to potential partners as well.

 

I will admit that I didn't disclose this information prior to meeting her - it was simply a cold sore and everyone I knew suffered from cold sores occasionally. Hell, I didn't even know it was herpes.

 

A couple of things to clarify here though: HSV-1 is not oral herpes and HSV-2 genital herpes. They are both simply herpes with differing viral definitions - the location of infection is not indicative of virus type any more than AIDS is a homosexual disease - it is simply a disease found, by transmission vector and logical mechanics in a disproportionatey high segment of the population but is by no means an indicator of an homosexual male or IV drug user.

 

The odds may be higher but being heterosexual is absolutely NOT a vaccine against AIDS.

 

But I digress, herpes: The CDC estimates 90% of the populace is a carrier of HSV (1 or 2) and that 100% of males over the age of 31 have been exposed to the virus. For whatever reason (strong immune system, inattention, whatever) they have no idea whatsoever that they are carriers or have been exposed.

 

I could quote very similar statistics for HPV (Human papillomavirus) or warts. Notice I didn't say genital warts - because if you have a wart you have HPV. Again, location is not a different viral strain - just a different location of infection.

 

My wife and I have faced rejection before and will probably face it in the future. We are not dirty, we are not evil, we are simply honest.

 

Interestingly enough it works well for us and someone touched on this in an earlier reply: we wouldn't want to play with someone who was afraid of the herpes virus. They would be, in our opinion, a higher risk.

 

Here's why:

 

If you are uninfected by the herpes virus (10% chance) and you find ONE partner in your life and remain clean (1% chance - 10% of 10%) and you decide to swing, find ONE couple who has never had sex with anyone other than each other as well you have a 1% chance of 1% of remaining unexposed. That is 1 in 10,000.

 

These numbers degrade further. Herpes does not have to be transmitted sexually or by kissing. You scratch a cold sore, shake someone's hand and they touch their eyes, mouth, genitals etc - they have been exposed. You could run the above statistics with everyone you have ever shook hands with but it would rapidly become ridiculous. This is what the CDC believes as well, hence the 100% estimate. Very few organizations would state 100% as a percentage for anything - they simply know the odds are far too staggering to be anything but...

 

If you elect to swing: you WILL be exposed. You probably already have. Herpes is annoying but not remotely life threatening, any more than HPV or the common cold and it is simply, everywhere.

 

My opinion: Lets all simply acknowledge the fact that this particular affliction is media driven bullshit fueled by ignorance and accept that it is here. Don't swing when it hits you, recognize the symptoms and act responsibly.

 

Honestly, the best defense is keeping fit and taking care of yourself. You probably have been exposed and you WILL be if you haven't. One of MY theories concerning the seeming lack of herpes in the swinging community is related to the higher concern for physical attractiveness. Swingers like to look good naked for obvious reasons and probably take a little better care of themselves. Exercise and attention to health issues probably results in better than average immune systems which results in carriers with no symptoms. Notice I didn't say clean or unexposed - just asymptomatic. A healthy life still involves shaking hands, kissing relatives, hugging, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

 

It is no more than the common cold. Would you swing with someone who had a cold? Probably not while they had the cold but after they got over it you probably would. Depending on the type of cold they were contagious before they knew they were sick and even after they "got better". They had an incurable virus and the chance of transmission is greater than herpes because it is often transmitted through the air. Do you stay in your house because someone outside may have been exposed to a cold and may be a carrier of it?

 

No, you don't. The difference? Ramifications. A cold carries no social stigma but herpes does. The chance of exposure is virtually the same, the life threatening nature is the same, etc. But we have let the media tell us herpes exists but give us half the story because its not dramatic to make it sound like a common cold, its not news. Drug companies don't want people to have outbreaks and say "oh well, out of action for a few days" and let it pass on its own - just like a cold. It's a multi-billion dollar industry for suppressive medication - why would they want you to view it with the impunity it deserves?

 

One further point - childbirth and herpes. This is a correct fear. Interestingly enough you should read the ramifications of some types of cold virus and influenza on childbirth as well. The virus can be passed to the child and what is a cold or flu to you becomes a life threatening illness to a newborn.

 

I am not saying it should be ignored - only put in perspective. Put it in its proper place. It's not AIDS people, it's media driven crap. It's crap driven by the companies that sell "cures". Try to find REAL information on herpes from a site that sells Famvir, Acyclovir or Valtrex. Try to find it on a site that sells homeopathic remedies like oxygen therapies, balms, gels, goos, pills, herbs or anything else. They don't tell you what the CDC tells you because you'd realize what it really was and not pay the $54.95 plus shipping for their crap that is in reality no better than comtrex, robitussin, or any other cold and flu medication. Medications which do nothing more than treat the symptoms - they keep you from wondering around sneezing snotballs on everyone but they don't cure a damn thing.

 

Sorry if this seems like a rant but my wife and I feel the statistics make us suffer not because we are infected - but simply because we are honest.

 

Put simply - it sucks.

[MassageCouple69 16]

Great Post! Good for you for being so honest!

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Yes, very well designed and articulate post. You have opened my eyes even though I have studied these things to some extent. The realities of being positive are not really dwelled on in any research I have done. Thanks.

[Elusive BiFem 70]

Interesting post, AnonDude, and I agree with about 99.999% of all you said, particularly about the immune response. Transplant patients/recipients frequently develop herpes as a result of the immunosuppressive drugs they require to sustain their transplants. So, it would seem reasonable they harbored the dormant virus, but it was dormant until they were immunosuppresesd.

 

Also, Ms. O posted something awhile back about the immune response and stress, etc. I'm a great believer in that theory. I think our scientists/researchers have only touched the tip of the iceberg in terms of the stress/immune relationship.

 

I found your comparison to the common cold quite interesting in that the media, and all of us for that matter, tend to give a lot of hype to anything that is even remotely sexually transmitted while other things, i.e., the common cold, is just taken for granted. What does this say about our society? -EBF