Am I being a control-freak?

[yourbitterpill 34]

My apologies for the length of this question....

 

A bit of background. My wife and I have been swinging for several years now and within the past year or two we've "opened up" our marriage. She's had a lover before (which didn't end well somewhat recently)...

 

Anyway, recently we got back in touch with a couple we had swung with a few years back. They currently live out of state but they had stopped back here on vacation last month and we had all gone to dinner together. Afterwards, the husband had contacted Mrs. Pill about a possible long-distance relationship and meeting up when he comes back to town (the husband visits here several times a year). Initially, Mrs. Pill asked if that was ok if they discussed the possibility of it and I agreed, so long as they took it slow (she had just recently had a bad experience and "breakup" with her last lover). A few days after this, the husband announced he'd be coming back to town in a week and if they could meet. After the bad experience, I was very hesitant for her to jump right into something else and we had a few heated arguments on the subject. Eventually, Mrs. Pill agreed that it wasn't a good time but asked if they could go out to dinner, just socially and I agreed.

 

So they went to dinner around 7pm, she called me @ 10 asking if it was ok that they get a drink at a nearby bar, which was fine. Midnight rolled around and I called and asked when she was coming home and she said one more drink. I agreed but was tired and went to sleep, thinking Mrs. Pill would be back within the hour.

 

Mrs. Pill woke me at 4am. She said they had lost track of time and, after the bar had closed, they returned to his hotel room. She assured me that nothing happened. I was very upset because she didn't call and tell me beforehand where she was going, how long she'd be gone, or that they were going to his private room. I felt very disrespected and told her it was unsafe and put a lot of questions in my mind. What if I had woken up at 2, with no phone call, and didn't know where she was? Eventually, she agreed and we made up.

 

Fast forward to today. She has the day off work and asked me if they could "meet for lunch". I said no and she's really upset. I just feel like she's sort of "on probation" and that I'm not really certain I can trust her right now....

 

So am I over-reacting? Expecting too much? Being too harsh?

[Chicup 41]

In my opinion your mistake is an open relationship doesn't seem right for YOU.

 

And that is an important consideration. Invite him over for a 3some if thats ok, but I'd avoid all 1-1 stuff for a while.

[yourbitterpill 34]

One slight correction - she did say that they had kissed and lightly fooled around a bit on Saturday, but that there was no sex.

[slevin 1,374]

One slight correction - she did say that they had kissed and lightly fooled around a bit on Saturday, but that there was no sex.

 

Not knowing you or her at all, even before you made this statement I had the thought that she had actually fooled around with him (at least) or possibly even fucked him. Based on the disrespect of not following through with what she said she would do and not respecting your feelings and wishes about it. The fact that she argued with you about whether she could play with this guy, then pushed to go out with him, then multiple times called to say she wouldn't be home yet, then didnt call or come home at all, then wanted to meet him again for lunch even after realizing she had upset you the night before.....

 

I think she's fucking him. No proof, just my intuition based on the above events.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

I have all kinds of thoughts on this.

 

Why the heck would your wife go out "socially" by herself with this guy, and you and her not think it was going to lead to sex, especially since you already knew this guy's intent was to play with your wife, AND you and your wife already decided it was okay if she played with him?

 

I think your wife had sex with him. That's my take, and she's not willing to admit it (for some reason) but wants to fuck him again.

 

Did you have some rule against them playing? If you did you didn't mention it in your OP, I got the opposite impression...you agreed to bring in a solo playmate for your wife.

 

And this "taking it slow" thing, what did that mean to you, what did it mean to your wife?

 

Also, did you talk to his wife about her husband playing solo with your wife? I ask, because it didn't sound like it. If this guy e-mailed asking to play with your wife when he travels through, it may be without his wife's knowledge and approval.

 

You didn't say why your wife's last relationship with the solo play partner ended badly, but that may play a role in this story. Maybe you can tell us more about that.

 

From what you've provided thus far, I think you and your wife need to talk a whole lot more without blaming each other for a problem that has arisen because both of you failed to communicate clearly from the start.

 

LM

[Ripley & Ender 29]

Honestly, losing track of time has been one of our biggest issues too: Ripley tracks time. Ender doesn't.

 

After multiple bad aftermaths, Ender has realized how important this is to Ripley and keeps in much better touch now.

 

If EITHER ONE of us were feeling rocky about a meetup, neither of us would let one drink turn into four hours. That's basic consideration for your partner. And if one drink = four hours without notice or communication, why would it ever be okay with you for them to "have lunch" when you know that "have lunch" could turn into "shag like mad" just as easily as "one drink" turned into "lost track of time"?

[NCfuncouple98 367]

Why the heck would your wife go out "socially" by herself with this guy, and you and her not think it was going to lead to sex, especially since you already knew this guy's intent was to play with your wife, AND you and your wife already decided it was okay if she played with him?

 

I think your wife had sex with him. That's my take, and she's not willing to admit it (for some reason) but wants to fuck him again.

 

LM

 

Well maybe, but maybe not. If they didn't, I think it's headed that way. Losing track of time until 4am? No way, not possible. Caught up in the moment? Yes. If they didn't sleep together, it's headed that way. IMO, she's way too into this guy....And you say the last one ended badly? Maybe she really wants this one to not end that way, and is enjoying it a little too much.

 

Time for some down-home talking. Bottom line: if you are in any way uncomfortable with this, she needs to respect you and your opinion and back it down. You already know swinging or open relationships ONLY succeed with the utmost respect, trust, and communication. This is headed down the path of losing at least 2 of those.

 

Mrs. NC

[yourbitterpill 34]

Why the heck would your wife go out "socially" by herself with this guy, and you and her not think it was going to lead to sex, especially since you already knew this guy's intent was to play with your wife, AND you and your wife already decided it was okay if she played with him?

 

Because we all (both couples are friends) and both myself and Mrs. Pill made it clear to the husband that this would be purely social.

 

Did you have some rule against them playing? If you did you didn't mention it in your OP, I got the opposite impression...you agreed to bring in a solo playmate for your wife.

 

Yes, we did. Both she and I agreed this would be purely social...

 

Also, did you talk to his wife about her husband playing solo with your wife?

 

Yes, because we talk with the wife as well...

 

 

....And if one drink = four hours without notice or communication, why would it ever be okay with you for them to "have lunch" when you know that "have lunch" could turn into "shag like mad" just as easily as "one drink" turned into "lost track of time"?

 

Thank you. This was exactly my problem with the situation and, like most times, it was difficult for me to verbalize it. I will make sure Mrs. Pill knows that.

[yourbitterpill 34]

I know the consensus seems to be that Mrs. Pill did have sex with the husband but I am positive she didn't. First, because I do trust her (even though I had some primal emotional doubt Sunday and Monday, we have talked through it). Second, because what would be the purpose of her lying to me about it? Third, because we did make love after arguing early Sunday morning and I'd like to think I can tell .....

 

In any case, I appreciate the comments here. Thanks for the support.

[Chicup 41]

I know the consensus seems to be that Mrs. Pill did have sex with the husband but I am positive she didn't. First, because I do trust her (even though I had some primal emotional doubt Sunday and Monday, we have talked through it). Second, because what would be the purpose of her lying to me about it? Third, because we did make love after arguing early Sunday morning and I'd like to think I can tell .....

 

In any case, I appreciate the comments here. Thanks for the support.

 

Personally I don't think that really matters as part of the issue. The issue is you are not very comfortable with the open 1-1 thing right now so that should be that.

[slevin 1,374]

Personally I don't think that really matters as part of the issue. The issue is you are not very comfortable with the open 1-1 thing right now so that should be that.

 

And she doesn't seem to respect that fact that he's not comfortable with the situation....the bigger issue in my opinion.

[Ripley & Ender 29]

Thank you. This was exactly my problem with the situation and, like most times, it was difficult for me to verbalize it. I will make sure Mrs. Pill knows that.

 

Glad it helped. It's only taken me three years to realize why it was so important to me (Ripley)

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I guess my take on this situation is a little different than what most are seeing. I was holding off posting to see what others said. My initial response is somewhat along the lines of what Chicup said - you aren't ready for this so don't do it.

 

That said, to answer your question. Yes, I do think you are being controlling.

 

You said that she had had previous 1 on 1 relationships that you were ok with, BUT you were not ok with the fact that it ended badly and she got hurt, and you were worried about this occurring again, therefore you wanted her to move more slowly in finding a new boy toy. At least that's how I read it. If that is actually the case, then yes you are being too controlling, imo. If you are really ok with her having 1 on 1 playtime with other guys and even having a relationship with another guy. Then let her do it. If you are ok with the guy in question, then what is holding you back? I find your restricting her in seeing this guy on the basis of "it's too soon" or "she might get hurt" rather controlling.

 

And chances are that's how she sees it too and that is what is causing her reactions. The more you try to make someone do something against their will the more they will push the buttons and try to break free. I feel like by saying yes she could go out with this guy socially but nothing more you are saying "yes you can go to the ice cream store but you can't get any ice cream".

 

You two need to get on the same page with this. Either you are ok with it and it's just too soon (in your mind) in which case it's not really up to just you. If you are ok with it, you are ok with it. Or you aren't ok with it. If that's the case, that's great, but be honest about it with yourself and with her. If you don't want her seeing guys one on one then be honest. I think that's what Chicup is seeing and reading between the lines I feel like that may be the case. If that is the case, then tell her, don't dangle something out in front of her and say "later" when you don't mean it.

[NotSorry 155]

I don't think you're ready for this.

Is she willing to stop the separate thing because it makes you uncomfortable?

[yourbitterpill 34]

I guess my take on this situation is a little different than what most are seeing. I was holding off posting to see what others said. My initial response is somewhat along the lines of what Chicup said - you aren't ready for this so don't do it.

 

That said, to answer your question. Yes, I do think you are being controlling.

 

You said that she had had previous 1 on 1 relationships that you were ok with, BUT you were not ok with the fact that it ended badly and she got hurt, and you were worried about this occurring again, therefore you wanted her to move more slowly in finding a new boy toy. At least that's how I read it. If that is actually the case, then yes you are being too controlling, imo. If you are really ok with her having 1 on 1 playtime with other guys and even having a relationship with another guy. Then let her do it. If you are ok with the guy in question, then what is holding you back? I find your restricting her in seeing this guy on the basis of "it's too soon" or "she might get hurt" rather controlling....

 

I have to strongly disagree with you here. Our marriage is the primary relationship and takes precedence over all others. As such, there are agreed upon rules that both of us have willingly acknowledged to follow. One of those rules is that either one of us can slow down or put a slight hold on either's secondary relationships, so long as we have a good reason. Another rule is no intimate contact on the first date (unless agreed upon beforehand) and to keep in contact with one another if plan's change. These rules were agreed upon by both Mrs. Pill and the prospective partner the week before the meetup.

 

I won't go into details about why Mrs. Pill's last relationship ended so abruptly but I will say that her last BF lied through omission and disrespected her. Because of that, I was apprehensive about this new partner (our prior relationship with them as a couple ended because of communication issues).

 

Recently, it came to light that this new partner was NOT telling his wife everything that had occured and, from his last email, it seemed to be a turn-on for him. Because of that, both Mrs. Pill and myself have decided to end their relationship before anyone gets hurt.

 

For an open marriage to work, both partners need to abide by mutual rules, communicate on a regular basis, respect each others feelings, and only go as quickly as the slowest person. To follow your reasoning, Julie, it would seem that you think that either partner should be able to go off and do whatever and whomever they'd like, regardless of their primary partner's feelings on that issue. If that is the case, then what's the point of being married or having a primary relationship?

[Gordo 618]

For an open marriage to work, both partners need to abide by mutual rules, communicate on a regular basis, respect each others feelings, and only go as quickly as the slowest person.

 

Exactly

 

To follow your reasoning, Julie, it would seem that you think that either partner should be able to go off and do whatever and whomever they'd like, regardless of their primary partner's feelings on that issue.?

 

But that is what she did isn't it? And you have all the misery & fallout from it.

 

If that is the case, then what's the point of being married or having a primary relationship?

 

I think this is your real issue because I think she's already passed the secondary relationship point and is far too into this guy.

 

I can understand you wanting to go slow so that she doesn't end up in a new "bad" relationship on a rebound.

 

But let's face it she's broken your jointly agreed rules, failed to keep you in a comfortable space when she changed plans and frankly the "lost track of time" excuse is such BS I'd never accept it. I for one think she fucked the guy and NO you can't always really tell.

 

Add the fact that she's arguing with you over meeting with this guy again tells me you have a crisis coming.

 

I'd terminate this one without further question and I think you two need to have a real discussion about what you do in the future. When one party is no longer willing to play by the rules you're facing a disaster sooner or later if you continue.

 

 

Gord

[Sunswept 161]

yourbitterpill,

What moved you two to "open up your marrage" ? What was that going to do for you two that swinging would not? (Swinging and an open marrage are not the same things, they have somewhat different dynamics.)

 

Since you have been swinging for years, then I would assume you both have an 'I'm OK/You're OK" dynamic between both of you in relation to swinging.

 

But the dynamic I see between you two in relation to this experiment in 'open marrage' is that you say you are OK with it, but you think Mrs Pill is "not OK" -you fear there is potential for her to make choices that will hurt her. And you are trying to control the situation to insure that will not happen, and think that you see things more clearly than she. (Maybe you do, maybe you dont.)

 

The bottom line is that at this point, and considering present circumstances, you really are 'not OK' with "open marrage." The real problem as I see it is that any control issues that exist between you two arise from the the reality that you (and probably neither of you) are not ready for "open marrage"... and hey -thats OK.

 

You have fear. From what you have told us she may make poor choices and get hurt. (Not knowing if that is the reality of course, I have not heard her side) but that it is your perception and that is what is important. The 'open marrage' path requires that neither of you have fear and both of you are confident in each other, and know you both will make good choices

 

Just saying what Chicup and Julie said, from a slightly shifted perspective and with different words.

 

The real question seems to me is not about control, but why you talked yourself into thinking you were OK with "open marrage" when you actually deep down were not with your current partner. Willing or controlling ones self into being OK with something when you are not is usually a disaster in the context of relationships. And being OK with something in the abstract don't count, especially when the rubber meets the... whatever!

 

The good news is that you two can both use this as 'awareness expansion" event to work through the 'issues' this has revealed -and perhaps grow to a place where you both are ready for 'open marrage' if that is something you really want. Wanting something and being ready -are two different things.

[yourbitterpill 34]

I for one think she fucked the guy and NO you can't always really tell.

 

Like I've stated, I believe she didn't.

 

Can we all move on from this subject? It's becoming quite disrespectful...

 

I'd terminate this one without further question and I think you two need to have a real discussion about what you do in the future. When one party is no longer willing to play by the rules you're facing a disaster sooner or later if you continue.

 

Yes, we already DID terminate this, as I stated in my last post. And we both agree mistakes were made and we are learning from them.

[Gordo 618]

Yes, we already DID terminate this, as I stated in my last post. And we both agree mistakes were made and we are learning from them.

 

Sorry that wasn't very prominent in the post.

 

I'm sorry that you are regarding the posts as being disrespectful when you asked. It seems to me the disrespect is far closer to home for you than this board.

 

Good luck I hope it works out for the two of you.

[yourbitterpill 34]

I'm sorry that you are regarding the posts as being disrespectful when you asked. It seems to me the disrespect is far closer to home for you than this board.

 

....Never mind...

[rpu3 630]

Can we all move on from this subject? It's becoming quite disrespectful...

 

It's a public forum. Everyone has been polite in their responses. I see no "disrespectful" posts. I find it more disrespectful that you seem to be dictating how and when Board members should post. You asked your questions and you posted your thoughts; you are getting responses, even if the responses aren't what you like.

 

Good luck in your future alternative endeavors.

[realcplub2 513]

Ok.. Here is my take on this..

 

Mr Bitterpill, Not knowing all the particulars, is irrelavant, The taller issue is, Do you really understand the meaning of having an open marriage? From what I am reading thus far, your definition is a bit different, than what most consider it.

 

This other couple, your former swing playmates from out of state, Do both parties know whats going on around the old home town? Next, I find it a bit convienent that a week after having the first conversation about it, He suddenly is back in town for a week.

 

Skip ahead, to your personal relationship.. Let me get this striaght, Your wife has to ask permission to date, and then get your personal go ahead to take it to another level?

 

Forgive me, this seems more like so reverse cuckholding.. rather than an open relationship on whatever level. to answer your original question..

 

Yes you are being way too controling.. If you are going to place trust in your wife to make the descions that she has then its up to her to decide what happens, with who and when..

 

Lets slip those little ruby slippers on your pinky toes.. Suppose it was the other wife, in town for a week asking you to meet for dinner and who knows what other types of fun.. Would you expect your wife to be incontrol of the wheres and whens?

 

You have alread given her the go aheead to play privately, either change that, or accept it..

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I have to strongly disagree with you here. Our marriage is the primary relationship and takes precedence over all others. As such, there are agreed upon rules that both of us have willingly acknowledged to follow. One of those rules is that either one of us can slow down or put a slight hold on either's secondary relationships, so long as we have a good reason. Another rule is no intimate contact on the first date (unless agreed upon beforehand) and to keep in contact with one another if plan's change. These rules were agreed upon by both Mrs. Pill and the prospective partner the week before the meetup.

 

I won't go into details about why Mrs. Pill's last relationship ended so abruptly but I will say that her last BF lied through omission and disrespected her. Because of that, I was apprehensive about this new partner (our prior relationship with them as a couple ended because of communication issues).

 

Recently, it came to light that this new partner was NOT telling his wife everything that had occured and, from his last email, it seemed to be a turn-on for him. Because of that, both Mrs. Pill and myself have decided to end their relationship before anyone gets hurt.

 

For an open marriage to work, both partners need to abide by mutual rules, communicate on a regular basis, respect each others feelings, and only go as quickly as the slowest person. To follow your reasoning, Julie, it would seem that you think that either partner should be able to go off and do whatever and whomever they'd like, regardless of their primary partner's feelings on that issue. If that is the case, then what's the point of being married or having a primary relationship?

 

There's actually a lot of info in this post that you didn't include in your first post. No, I don't believe that either partner should be able to just go off and do what they want without regard to the other. But, based on your initial post I also didn't feel you had a good reason to restrict her or slow her down on moving forward with this particular person. You did not express any reason other than that the previous relationship ended badly. What does the previous relationship have to do with the new? NOTHING.

 

THat said, you've now said that you stopped swinging with this couple previously (the same couple, that this guy who now wants to swing with your wife is half of) because of communication issues. That is a valid reason to not swing with them again (in any form). You did not make this information clear in your original post, you made it sound like there was really no reason not to swing this couple or this half of a couple, other than that the previous relationship ended badly.

 

Now, you have not said what the communication issues were. They may have been minor, or someone may have lied and created a reason to not trust them. If you don't trust them then you shouldn't have even been ok with her going out with this guy socially. From more recent (evidently) involvement with them it's become clearer that the guy is to not be trusted, so perhaps your radar was going off early and you just didn't realize why. In either case if you don't trust someone, you don't trust them and that's ok. You are allowed to make that call. But, you should also be able to make that clear to your partner (that you don't trust them) and that should be enough. And like I said, if you don't trust someone, then you shouldn't even be sending your wife out with them socially (and if she knew you didn't trust them then she probably wouldn't want to). But, since you weren't being clear with her as to why you didn't want her going out with him (at least I'm guessing from what you posted and from what happened that you weren't being any more clear with her than you were with us) then you came off as being a control freak.

 

In order for me to give heed to my partners feelings I have to know what they are. An unclear well I just don't want you to, isn't enough. That just comes off as selfish and it sounds more like a parent saying "because I said so". We are adults and we each get a say in the relationship that means each partner has to clearly state the reason behind their feelings, or at least what their feelings are, not just "because I don't want you to".