Problems involving Wife's Sex Video (Looking for an attorney for help)

[whyokc 94]

Is there a swinger that is an attorney in Oklahoma to help a swinger couple, in reference to a swinging issue.....?

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Do you have a personal attorney now ?

 

I don't know anyone that would say this attorney or that attorney is a swinger.

 

We have a personal attorney for all things in life, as anyone should. And yes, he knows we are swingers.

 

If you give a little more detail, without full discloser. Some members may offer some kind of advice. There's some pretty smart people in the community here. Some with past legal experiences.

[Dave_kat 227]

Most attourneys are trained to handle all kinds of situations, and if you have a respectable one, he/she should be able to handle most things you run into. Granted it would help if they understood the lifestyle, but with some explanation they can probably figure it out.

[whyokc 94]

Do you have a personal attorney now ?

 

I don't know anyone that would say this attorney or that attorney is a swinger.

 

We have a personal attorney for all things in life, as anyone should. And yes, he knows we are swingers.

 

If you give a little more detail, without full discloser. Some members may offer some kind of advice. There's some pretty smart people in the community here. Some with past legal experiences.

 

Well it goes like this,

 

My Wife went to vegas this weekend for a wedding. Prior to this event she had met the best man at another function and fucked him (and really enjoyed it!) She had asked me if she got the chance to do him again could she ...well of course I said (he is aware she is a HotWife)... So wouldn't you know it he wanted her bad. So they go to his room (after being caught by the bride while they tried to have sex in a nearby bathroom).... so while having sex he pulls out a video camera and asked if you can record the sex, she told him she would have to ask me...So she calls me back here in Oklahoma and I tell them both that they could under 2 conditions 1. after he copy's it to his lap top we get the disk and 2. He could not post it on the net.... he agrees and they get of the phone and return to what they were doing. So after the deed is done he records it to his lap top and my wife leaves and forgets the disk... no problem right she can get it the next morning? well since that point he has kept coming up with excuses as to where it is... I'm at a complete loss as to what to do any suggestions. I have never formally met the guy and from what I can gather he is a turning out to be a prick I know where he lives, and works hell I even know where he plays golf....

 

 

Here the deal I Know criminal law (I'm a cop) I don't know Civil law that well but i have won two civil suits before. This is what I know, though it happened in vegas all party members have residence in Oklahoma and I was in Oklahoma when the agreement was made via phone, thus it should not be a problem to have the venue here in Oklahoma. I also know that a verbal contract is just as binding as a written if it can be proven that both parties agreed to it. and that civil law unlike criminal law is only based on a preponderance of the evidence. Thus not beyond a reasonable doubt. and last but not least that Oklahoma law is also based on the reasonable man. So in short it's reasonable to assume we would have made these rules and there are two of us versus one saying that we agreed to them. But it shouldn't be to much of an effort to have a recorded conversation with him and get thim to admit he did agree to this , he's very willing to talk about it...just not give it up. and of course there is the case (can't remeber the girls name though) who's boyfriend posted her web cam video's on the net without her permission. She took him to court and cleaned him out. So there is a presidence already set for the posting issue if he should do it. And it's common knowledge that if he agreed to give property based on a deal that he would have to honor his end.... So I'm really not to worried about winning the suit I just need an attorney to go to court for me so I don't have to be seen. Being a cop and going to court on this issue is a certain out, not to mention my wife will be a Doctor in a year. So she can't be seen either, I would really prefer to have a swinger as an attorney for obvious reasons.

[rpu3 630]

Okay, what I don't understand is why you need an attorney to go to court so that you are not seen... I mean, your name would be on the lawsuit, correct? Further, wouldn't your wife be the injured party and thus need to file the lawsuit herself?

 

It seems like there are more options to be working through before I'd even be seeking out an attorney - it just happened this weekend. The weekend isn't even over yet. You don't know if anything has been uploaded.

 

What exactly have you and your wife done to date? Are either of you documenting each and every request and the response? As a paralegal (no, not an attorney), I think there are steps to be taken first and documented before I'd be worrying about finding a swing-friendly attorney. I think the attorneys that may be inclined to answer around here would appreciate knowing what has occured to date - being mindful that evidently this just barely happened.

 

I hope, at a bare minimum, that it's clear now if you feel you have something to lose if your videos or photos get out that maybe it's not a good idea to have acquaintainces take video or pics. You both lost control of the issue when your wife (and you) gave permission for the video.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

I hope, at a bare minimum, that it's clear now if you feel you have something to lose if your videos or photos get out that maybe it's not a good idea to have acquaintainces take video or pics. You both lost control of the issue when your wife (and you) gave permission for the video.

 

 

If you don't want to increase your risk of being found out, don't allow video or pictures during play.

 

I think finding a lawyer would be fruitless. Even if this guy never gives you a copy of the video, he's going to have the original and can do what he wishes with it.

 

At this point it seems to me that getting a copy is only good for having something to entertain yourselves with at home.

 

Hope that Mr. Playmate will send you your copy. With some polite encouragement and reminders from you he may still come through. Also, hope that he doesn't use the video to do harm to you.

 

Good luck.

 

LM

[whyokc 94]

Okay, what I don't understand is why you need an attorney to go to court so that you are not seen... I mean, your name would be on the lawsuit, correct? Further, wouldn't your wife be the injured party and thus need to file the lawsuit herself?

 

It seems like there are more options to be working through before I'd even be seeking out an attorney - it just happened this weekend. The weekend isn't even over yet. You don't know if anything has been uploaded.

 

What exactly have you and your wife done to date? Are either of you documenting each and every request and the response? As a paralegal (no, not an attorney), I think there are steps to be taken first and documented before I'd be worrying about finding a swing-friendly attorney. I think the attorneys that may be inclined to answer around here would appreciate knowing what has occured to date - being mindful that evidently this just barely happened.

 

I hope, at a bare minimum, that it's clear now if you feel you have something to lose if your videos or photos get out that maybe it's not a good idea to have acquaintainces take video or pics. You both lost control of the issue when your wife (and you) gave permission for the video.

 

Umm no of course we are not documenting... as far as the name being on the lawsuit yes it would be but people wrapped in their worlds are far less apt to pay attention to something is they have to read it but if they can see and hear the person, their memory is a little better, I don't want to be seen or heard..... and no as we are married and it effects both of us we would both be injured parties.

[rpu3 630]

Umm no of course we are not documenting... as far as the name being on the lawsuit yes it would be but people wrapped in their worlds are far less apt to pay attention to something is they have to read it but if they can see and hear the person, their memory is a little better, I don't want to be seen or heard..... and no as we are married and it effects both of us we would both be injured parties.

 

So, you are planning on finding an attorney, and having absolutely no record or notes as to you and your wife's attempts to get your copy of the video when you meet with said attorney to help him out at all?

You can't simply make a log of when, what and who as to your requests and activities to date to get a copy of the video? You give permission for a video, and you are willing to put your names on a lawsuit and talk to an attorney, but a log of your activities to resolve the issue is a "of course we are not documenting..." Okie-dokey... the paralegal in me is scratching the noggin on this one, because this kind of logic is my nightmare in trying to help an attorney put together his case and doing the legal research and drawing up the complaint.

 

It's his video. You two gave permission. He's got a ton of affirmative defenses he can use in his answer to your lawsuit. I think there are several things you could do that would likely resolve the situation without an attorney filing a lawsuit. Good luck in resolving it.

[whyokc 94]

So, you are planning on finding an attorney, and having absolutely no record or notes as to you and your wife's attempts to get your copy of the video when you meet with said attorney to help him out at all?

You can't simply make a log of when, what and who as to your requests and activities to date to get a copy of the video? You give permission for a video, and you are willing to put your names on a lawsuit and talk to an attorney, but a log of your activities to resolve the issue is a "of course we are not documenting..." Okie-dokey... the paralegal in me is scratching the noggin on this one, because this kind of logic is my nightmare in trying to help an attorney put together his case and doing the legal research and drawing up the complaint.

 

It's his video. You two gave permission. He's got a ton of affirmative defenses he can use in his answer to your lawsuit. I think there are several things you could do that would likely resolve the situation without an attorney filing a lawsuit. Good luck in resolving it.

 

Sorry I think I initially misread or understood your other post... yes of course that would be good on our part to keep a log

[tnt69couple 64]

Well it goes like this,

 

My Wife went to vegas this weekend for a wedding. Prior to this event she had met the best man at another function and fucked him (and really enjoyed it!) She had asked me if she got the chance to do him again could she ...well of course I said (he is aware she is a HotWife)... So wouldn't you know it he wanted her bad. So they go to his room (after being caught by the bride while they tried to have sex in a nearby bathroom).... so while having sex he pulls out a video camera and asked if you can record the sex, she told him she would have to ask me...So she calls me back here in Oklahoma and I tell them both that they could under 2 conditions 1. after he copy's it to his lap top we get the disk and 2. He could not post it on the net.... he agrees and they get of the phone and return to what they were doing. So after the deed is done he records it to his lap top and my wife leaves and forgets the disk... no problem right she can get it the next morning? well since that point he has kept coming up with excuses as to where it is... I'm at a complete loss as to what to do any suggestions. I have never formally met the guy and from what I can gather he is a turning out to be a prick I know where he lives, and works hell I even know where he plays golf....

 

 

Here the deal I Know criminal law (I'm a cop) I don't know Civil law that well but i have won two civil suits before. This is what I know, though it happened in vegas all party members have residence in Oklahoma and I was in Oklahoma when the agreement was made via phone, thus it should not be a problem to have the venue here in Oklahoma. I also know that a verbal contract is just as binding as a written if it can be proven that both parties agreed to it. and that civil law unlike criminal law is only based on a preponderance of the evidence. Thus not beyond a reasonable doubt. and last but not least that Oklahoma law is also based on the reasonable man. So in short it's reasonable to assume we would have made these rules and there are two of us versus one saying that we agreed to them. But it shouldn't be to much of an effort to have a recorded conversation with him and get thim to admit he did agree to this , he's very willing to talk about it...just not give it up. and of course there is the case (can't remeber the girls name though) who's boyfriend posted her web cam video's on the net without her permission. She took him to court and cleaned him out. So there is a presidence already set for the posting issue if he should do it. And it's common knowledge that if he agreed to give property based on a deal that he would have to honor his end.... So I'm really not to worried about winning the suit I just need an attorney to go to court for me so I don't have to be seen. Being a cop and going to court on this issue is a certain out, not to mention my wife will be a Doctor in a year. So she can't be seen either, I would really prefer to have a swinger as an attorney for obvious reasons.

 

 

What city are you from?

 

Also I am confused. Loading the video on his lap top and burning it to a disc does not make the only copy. It will still be on his hard disk.

[lizandtom 512]

WhyOKC, I know you are emotionally charged over this and it has become personal, but there is really nothing to benefit by commencing with a civil suit imho. As others have said, a copy or the original will always be out of your control, and the best you can hope for imho is that it is kept within the other guys laptop for his viewing only. The most effective thing you can try is to pay a personal visit to him, catching him off-guard, and explain that you want the video deleted from his laptop right then and there, and see if you, having police 'tactics,' can coerce him into deleting it right in front of you. Other than that, there is really nothing to 'cease and desist' about if he hasn't made it public and especially not for monetary gain.

 

Of course I'm sure you both will never allow yourselves to be taped or photographed again in this manner. In the one or two instances we have, we always make sure our faces are turned away from the camera so as to never been seen.

[whyokc 94]

WhyOKC, I know you are emotionally charged over this and it has become personal, but there is really nothing to benefit by commencing with a civil suit imho. As others have said, a copy or the original will always be out of your control, and the best you can hope for imho is that it is kept within the other guys laptop for his viewing only. The most effective thing you can try is to pay a personal visit to him, catching him off-guard, and explain that you want the video deleted from his laptop right then and there, and see if you, having police 'tactics,' can coerce him into deleting it right in front of you. Other than that, there is really nothing to 'cease and desist' about if he hasn't made it public and especially not for monetary gain.

 

Of course I'm sure you both will never allow yourselves to be taped or photographed again in this manner. In the one or two instances we have, we always make sure our faces are turned away from the camera so as to never been seen.

 

We don't have a problem with him having a copy we just don't want it released on the net. The key issue is that we were to have a copy and she left it there ad now he will not return it. the fact that he will not return it suggests to me that he is far more untrustworthy than I would like to think, and that is what gives me reason to believe he may post it.

[The Fuse 1,012]

If he gives you a copy now, he can still post the one he has. Giving you a copy is not going to make that any less likely. Giving you a copy will not make him any more trustworthy.

 

Antagonizing him will probably just piss him off and make him more likely to do something that will hurt you. As a police officer, I'm sure you understand that.

 

I hope you get your copy, but suing him for it will surely not help you get it.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Even if you get the DVD copy it won't prevent him from posting it if he decides to do so. Having done years of amateur video on the net, the person who records the video (or pictures) actually owns copyright to said pictures/video - NOT the person in the image. However, they can not legally post the image/video on the net without a signed consent from you to do so. HOWEVER, that does not prevent them from doing so. If he did so you'd have to find where he did it and prove that he did it before you could do anything.

 

At this point you gave him permission to record the act.

He owns the copyright to the actual video.

To have a contract (basic business law) both parties must offer something - what have you offered him? I doubt sex is going to stand up in court as a payment or "trade" for exchange of the DVD copy.

It's been a day since this happened.

How much money are you really willing to spend to get a copy of this video back?

 

As others have already pointed out if a lawyer were even willing to bother with this case you'd have to have documented EVERYTHING up to the point of going to court. EVERY attempt to get the DVD from him. As husband and wife, it wouldn't matter that it's 2 against 1, it's still your word against his with no proof of any agreement.

[Chicup 41]

We don't have a problem with him having a copy we just don't want it released on the net. The key issue is that we were to have a copy and she left it there ad now he will not return it. the fact that he will not return it suggests to me that he is far more untrustworthy than I would like to think, and that is what gives me reason to believe he may post it.

 

He might be having second thoughts of YOU posting it on the net and he doesn't want to be out there.

 

As everyone else has pretty much said, you are pretty much screwed, drop it.

[curiousagain 326]

Even if you get the DVD copy it won't prevent him from posting it if he decides to do so. Having done years of amateur video on the net, the person who records the video (or pictures) actually owns copyright to said pictures/video - NOT the person in the image. However, they can not legally post the image/video on the net without a signed consent from you to do so. HOWEVER, that does not prevent them from doing so. If he did so you'd have to find where he did it and prove that he did it before you could do anything.

 

At this point you gave him permission to record the act.

He owns the copyright to the actual video.

To have a contract (basic business law) both parties must offer something - what have you offered him? I doubt sex is going to stand up in court as a payment or "trade" for exchange of the DVD copy.

It's been a day since this happened.

How much money are you really willing to spend to get a copy of this video back?

 

As others have already pointed out if a lawyer were even willing to bother with this case you'd have to have documented EVERYTHING up to the point of going to court. EVERY attempt to get the DVD from him. As husband and wife, it wouldn't matter that it's 2 against 1, it's still your word against his with no proof of any agreement.

 

Although I have no experience with posting video on the net, I do have a lot with still photography and want to ditto Julie. And, I would like to add that as she said, he may still post it without your permission, of course he would have to forge a model release, etc. If you found out it was posted somewhere, you could probably get a DMCA takedown but would you want to do that every time he posted it somewhere? It would have already been downloaded any way. And you would have to identify yourself to do that. Besides, if he wants to share it via a file sharing program it would be like trying to capture the wind. Just cross your fingers and try to learn a lesson from it. Maybe your wife could talk to him and get him to delete all files, I think it's probably your only acceptable option at this point unless he has shared it in some way already.

 

I had a lot of photos stolen from my flickr account (hundreds) and used without my permission by blogs, web sites, business (including major corporations) and found out the hard way just how screwed you are in the control department once it goes on the net. To do anything without going public would be impossible, I believe. A few took them down when I requested but most didn't. I've since restricted my flickr posting to just hobby photos and snapshots and only upload commercially suitable photos to stock sites. If I shoot pics of friends for them I upload them to a private password protected site for them to download or order prints from. Don't let anyone take any photos or video you wouldn't want on the net, even film. I can take a film shot, and have it developed and digitized and on the net in one to two hours, quicker with a Polaroid. You are a little safer with a professional photographer because they have a reputation and business to lose. If you hire them to take photos you can have a clause in the agreement that you retain copyright to all images and they don't want to be in the news for copyright infringement because it might ruin their business and will guarantee less business in the future. The average Joe has no such worries.

[lizandtom 512]

This reminds me of the Amy Fisher sex tape over the last year or two. The ex and she made a sex tape, pretty good from what I heard. They spat, he sold it on the internet, she didn't sign a release. She hired an attorney to cease and desist, but it was too late. She stopped trying to piss into the wind and agreed to a cut of $5mm as settlement. I'd doubt your tape would get any type of notoriety unless you are famous. Other than that, nothing has been signed, so no contract to enforce. Done.

[tnt69couple 64]

If he gives you a copy now, he can still post the one he has. Giving you a copy is not going to make that any less likely. Giving you a copy will not make him any more trustworthy.

 

Antagonizing him will probably just piss him off and make him more likely to do something that will hurt you. As a police officer, I'm sure you understand that.

 

I hope you get your copy, but suing him for it will surely not help you get it.

 

That was the point I was trying to make. Just because it is on his lap top and gives you the original he can still post it on the internet.

[ShinyHappyGirl 52]

definitely heed the advice of the two pros who just mentioned the copyright issues at hand. if you offered him nothing in trade, it will be difficult for you to fight him in court if he tries to argue that he taped it for use by BOTH parties. (i.e. he provided his services as a videographer and a copy of the film in return for the sole rights from you to profit from the pornographic film. In the photographer biz this is casually known as "TFP")

 

It will be your word against his, as you and your wife will be looked at as one entity because you are married.

 

Even if you sue him for a copy (since that is all you are saying you agreed to, not the original), if his attorney is bright, he'll just argue in court that his client has the right to sell the film now to recoup his profits form the legal fees. Since you are essentially going to court and admitting he did indeed film it, he was not compensated for his services, and it was understood from the start that he had the right to own a copy as well. All of that implies that you understood he would retain legal ownership and copyright of the footage. Like others said, you can't argue that his compensation was sex, unless u want your wife to go to jail for prostitution.....

 

bottom line, this could get VERY messy. the only lawyer who could help you would be a very expensive one. although i do feel for your situation, it hardly seems worth the effort. just walk away with a hard lesson learned and pray he has just as much to lose as you do from the video's release.

[knb2004 364]

Actually, the bit about a signed release is a bit grey. If the movie in question were to be offered for sale, or as a pay-per-view, or other commercial type of transaction a model release is absolutely required, were it broadcast an informative (think news) a release is absolutely not required. In between those extremes is a bit grey, for example if it's posted somewhere that has free access. That said, I'd like to think that since a no-posting agreement was made both sides would live up to it.

[curiousagain 326]

And the quickest way to make that film worth selling is to sue over it and make it famous. Until then, it's pretty much one of millions but once it becomes a news item it has it's own "celebrity status" and he can turn a quick buck on it.

[curiousagain 326]

In between those extremes is a bit grey

 

But, due to some people going to prison, I think sites are getting a bit more strict in having proof that the subjects are of legal age. That requires a bit more than a model release. I think sometimes things get posted to free sharing sites and later they are taken down but by then it's too late. I'd like to hear from those with personal experience in the matters of homemade porn posting. But, I think everybody is correct in crossing your fingers and trying to maintain good Karma is your only choice at this point.

[bbarnsworth 2,636]

Water under the bridge now, but this one of the reasons why my wife I and I never consent to being photographed or videotaped while swinging. We're just not going there. If we don't permit it, then control of the (nonexistent) video remains with us 100%.

 

A disappointing part about this (among others) is your wife found a great sex partner, and now that's ruined.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Actually, the bit about a signed release is a bit grey. If the movie in question were to be offered for sale, or as a pay-per-view, or other commercial type of transaction a model release is absolutely required, were it broadcast an informative (think news) a release is absolutely not required. In between those extremes is a bit grey, for example if it's posted somewhere that has free access. That said, I'd like to think that since a no-posting agreement was made both sides would live up to it.

 

Actually, the release has little to do with it being broadcast, more to do with proof of age and consent to photograph sexual activity. Your point would be valid if this didn't involve nudity or sexual explicit content. If it's something where you are out in public and someone films you, they don't need a consent form to use the video (that's where the news content you mentioned comes from). But, if it is filmed in private, a consent form is required for it to be used/released... This applies sexually to the point that if you are out in the open and say flashing your boobs or someone manages to get a peek up your skirt as you get into a car, you can't do jack about it. (Think Brittany Spears). But if you have reason to believe that what you were doing was in private, then you have the right to expect it to remain private unless you release it otherwise.

[realcplub2 513]

In this great society we live in, everyone wants what they want.. and everyone wants to cover thier own asses.

 

You are really way behind the mark, by consenting to be filmed regardless of the outcome is still consent. Allowing him to make a laptop dump and give you the original, regardless of having hte original or not does not stop him from making more copies, or posting it, or hell even selling it to an adult company as an amatuer video.

 

As afar as his motives, consider this.. Perhaps he is thinking that if you have a copy what kind of HOLD do you have over him? Much the same as you are worried about, He may be thinking the same of you both..

 

We all fear being caught in the moment and then being exposed in public for whatever we were doing... This isnt a case of hidden camera.. he asked.. The only proof you have is the phone call asking your permission.. again.. it was held above baord.. I would suggest a simple phone call/roadtrip and talk to him.. explain your postion and hear his side. This all may be spinning out of control over stupid shit, rather than rational thinking.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Am I missing something here ?

 

I think the OP, just wants to see his wife in action more than anything ?

 

I think even the prick/best man, who has the CD, won't give them anything. Not even a copy.

 

Is it because he is a judge or something, with something to lose himself if exposed ?

 

On the other hand, I wonder if the OP just wants to see how much is exposed. Like his wife's face without showing the mans face. Or, if it shows both participants faces and they have THAT! A copy with the mans face edited out, would be more to worry about. Hence the need for the oridiginal....

[curiousagain 326]

I looked back through the OP's post and it seems since the guy is reluctant to give them a copy the OP is afraid he may post it somewhere and the answers just kind of drifted that way.

 

If he knows where he works, lives, and plays golf, going to him and getting it shouldn't require legal action. Preventing him from posting it on the net if it hasn't already happened or getting him to erase all copies would probably involve legal action.

[JM153 346]

I agree that recourse to the legal system is not an option. In addition to all the reasons that have been stated there are at least two others. There is no way you can expect to file a lawsuit over such a salacious subject and not have your employer, defense attorneys, and the medical board find out. Any and all of those would threaten both careers. You probably would not get fired, but you can forget promotion. As for your wife, it is a lot easier to be denied a medical license than it is to loose one. Therefore, your wife might not ever get her license. In short, the risks involved in legal action far outweigh any possible benefit.

 

So what to do. First, I think YOU should not do anything. I do not know you and apologize if I misread you, but you come over as one who gets mad if someone betrays you. I bet you have a temper and like most of us, when you get mad, you do not think before you act. I think you should find a calm friend or your wife to actually go see the guy. See if they can't talk him into what you want. Be careful as to whom you pick. Obviously they need to be able to accept your swinging and they also have to be a peacemaker. As a cop, I am sure you have seen situations where an officer has escalated a problem and other times where an officer has calmed it. Since you cannot afford this guy to retaliate, you need someone who will not make him mad.

 

Good luck.

[Additude 457]

Tough Luck Pal.

 

Keep asking him with "Professional Persistance" to get a copy of the video.

 

As soon as you turn into a "Tough Guy" on him, you stand no chance of getting the video at all.

 

Besides, just how many thousands of dollars in attornies fees do you wish to spend? Plus exposing your professional career in a sex scandal....I know of a female fire fighter that lost her job over "risque" photos and there was a Mayor in a Colorado town that was impeached for such a display.

 

Do you think your Police department wants that kind of exposure, or for the citizens of your town to wonder why the Police force has such an individual working for them as a civil servant?

 

I think you better change your approach and play Mr. Nice Guy and try to schmooze that video out of the guy. Put him on the spot, make him feel guilty. Ask him why he cant get it to you. Tell him your willing to drop by where he lives with a blank disk to get a copy, so on and so forth. Going in with an attitude that I'm a cop, your a criminal is short sighted.

 

Let's face it. Your wife left without the copy. Thats her fault. All he has to say is, "She said she didn't want it so I deleted it off my phone/computer"....end of story. How much money do you want to spend on an attorney to hear him say that?

 

Even if it shows up on the net later, you have to prove it is your wife and him....and not just some people that may resemble or look like them...if it even shows faces....

[Mr.Essex 264]

Masks are our friends.

 

Sorry, but I can't always be long-winded when I give advice. And (as far as their video is concerned), years of being friends with geeks allows me to know that it'll be semi-public knowledge if he ever gets his computer repaired. Even if he deletes the file. So, barring his destruction of the computer, a lawsuit would be a lost cause.

[bill&sabrina 22]

Did you ever get a happy ending to this situation?