Finding Swinging Spouse?

[MajorQuestion 15]

I know a great deal about Swinging; I have been exposed to the community itself a few times in my life and I have read the great book "The Lifestyle" which helped me greatly come to terms with my personal fantasies.

 

I fully understand that swinging is not really about sex which is something that is very hard to explain which is why i rarely bring it up in conversations.

 

I say all this because I am a single male. I am however a single male with an uncommon single male agenda (at least from what the community might be used to).

 

After a long time not dating I am currently back in the dating scene and I feel at my age I really don't have time to fuck around with stupid immature views around sex however at the same time I do not want to freak people out for various reasons, some which could clearly get one fired.

 

So with that, what might be the best way for me to filter out women who would be completely against this lifestyle while at the same time not being a complete and total freak (although I suppose this qualifies as being one).

 

ALSO, for me, I would be 100% ok if I and the love of my life never swung more than a few times and decided we didn't like the Lifestyle. What is important to me is that she would be open to my freak side (which really is important for everyone I would thing).

 

Thanks for the help!

 

(added: what interests me most about the swinging lifestyle is allowing women to have complete and total fun for themselves while allow me to be turned on by other women. For me, its more about the woman's pleasure when it comes to swinging)

[realcplub2 513]

I tend to think while you are "shopping" for the perfect mate, where they are within the scheme of things as far as the lifestyle is concerned should be the last thing on your mind.

 

Also, lets face it, your statement you don't have time to fuck around with "stupid immature views around sex" Or want to "freak people out with your views that could clearly get someone fired" Raises more than a few eyebrows.

 

You see, the problem I see is, you are looking for a ready made mate that has your views on the lifestyle, and yet WANTS to be in a committed relationship. Unless you are lucky enough to find someone online, on a swing site, that is looking for exactly what you are, you wont be happy.

 

It might be better to take the long road, and find someone who does "it" for you in all senses of the word, excites you mentally, sexually, spiritually. After that, evolve your relationship.. Grow with each other rather than just expect to jump into one.

 

Or if you would rather, Instead of looking for Mrs right, look for a girlfriend within the lifestyle from a lifestyle site, and continue your search while playing with Ms right now.

[MajorQuestion 15]

I tend to think while you are "shopping" for the perfect mate, where they are within the scheme of things as far as the lifestyle is concerned should be the last thing on your mind.

 

Also, let's face it, your statement you don't have time to fuck around with "stupid immature views around sex" Or want to "freak people out with your views that could clearly get someone fired" Raises more than a few eyebrows.

 

You see, the problem i see is, you are looking for a ready made mate that has your views on the lifestyle, and yet WANTS to be in a committed relationship. Unless you are lucky enough to find someone online, on a swing site, that is looking for exactly what you are, you wont be happy.

 

It might be better to take the long road, and find someone who does "it" for you in all senses of the word, excites you mentally, sexually, spiritually. After that, evolve your relationship.. Grow with each other rather than just expect to jump into one.

 

Or if you would rather, Instead of looking for Mrs right, look for a girlfriend within the lifestyle from a lifestyle site, and continue your search while playing with Ms right now

 

I think I would in fact prefer to be in the lifestyle and meet the community and maybe even "her" that way instead of the other way. However as a single male (even as an attractive one) I am assuming becoming active in the community would be like an atheist getting invited make a speech at the 700 Club.

 

Perhaps I am wrong in that regard? Single men in the Lifestyle?

[VegasLee 1,486]

There are many places in this Lifestyle that well mannered, knowledgeable single men are welcome but reading a book does not make one a swinger or knowledgeable. I read a book about airplanes but that does not make me a pilot. The book you read was written by someone that is NOT in the Lifestyle.

 

Looking in the Lifestyle for a possible mate will not be well accepted. Most of the single women in the Lifestyle are single for a reason, they want to be that way. Couples are going to be very leery of someone looking for a possible mate, they don't want singles guys hunting for any more then some fun at the time. Feelings are not to enter into the fun.

 

Either come into the lifestyle as a single knowing you are just that, single and it is for fun and sex or find a life partner that you can share this experience with. They are few and far between. 99.9% of the people in this world are not cut out to be in this Lifestyle.

 

You appear to be looking for someone that ready made to what you think the Lifestyle and possible mate would be. Since you have not experienced either you really don't know what the lifestyle or a lifelong relationship is about yet. It is something you build over time.

 

Good luck to you but take your time and figure out what you really want. That perfect "package" is not going to be easy to find.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

I would concentrate on finding the spouse first, then worry about the swinging later, way later if ever in fact. Swinging is certainly something that we all here like to do, whether that's every Saturday night, once a month, few times a year, or whatever. I'm willing to bet though if you ask either part of a successful swinging couple, even one's that are very active in the Lifestyle, how important their swinging time is to their overall relationship compared to how important other facets of their relationship are, you'd find out that the swinging doesn't measure up up against the other things they feel for their partner. A good relationship is the sum of many parts, and swinging is just one of those. Some parts are a cornerstone and things will crumble if they are pulled away, others not so, and for us at least, swinging is definitely in that last category.

 

You say that you would be ok if you and your partner never swung more than a few times, but by saying that you are implying those few times are a must for you. If that is truly the case and it is really that important to you, then you owe it to yourself and any potential spouse to just be up front about it.

 

As you should know by now, it's not too hard to tell how someone feels about things as you get to know them better. If her idea of kinky is leaving the lights on, wouldn't get within five miles of a toy store, wouldn't go in a strip club or male revue, etc. then you can be pretty sure she won't take the swinging question too well. Even is she is up for all those things, that still doesn't mean she wants to swing and will take the swinging question well. In fact, it could very well be a sudden end to a promising relationship. Only you can evaluate whether it's worth it to you to risk that, but the better you know someone, the better you can bring up and communicate about difficult subjects.

 

Reading about and informing yourself on something you are interested in doing is always a smart move in my book, and improves the odds of success, but as others have said, there is a big difference between researching something and actually doing it, especially swinging.

 

How would you feel if you do find what who you are looking for, after a few great years together she's really into the idea and ready to try. The moment of truth comes, the clothes hit the floor, and it's time to be a doer and not just a thinker, and suddenly you discover you want no part of it but for her it's still full steam ahead? It's directly opposite of what you think may happen, but it can and does happen when what has always been fantasy is seconds away from becoming reality.

 

Good luck, and I do understand your dilemma, but I would just think long and hard about things before going too far into a new relationship with the expectation that if you just do certain things, it will eventually lead to swinging together. There is room for good single males in swinging, and if right now experiencing swinging is something you feel like you have to do, it's out there. Because of your status you may find it a little bit more difficult of go than a well established couple does, but it's certainly not impossible.

[knb2004 364]

If that is truly the case and it is really that important to you, then you owe it to yourself and any potential spouse to just be up front about it.

 

I agree with this idea, though the overall vibe of the thread seems counter to that position. I informed Mrs. knb that I had no desire to live monogamously before we went out on our first date. Of course, we had known each other first as acquaintances and later as friends for quite some time before we considered whether or not we wanted more, and we were both acutely aware that the others sexual predilections were not exactly "normal". So that's a bit different from dropping the idea on someone you've just met.

 

In our case, she was in agreement and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

If her idea of kinky is leaving the lights on, wouldn't get within five miles of a toy store, wouldn't go in a strip club or male revue, etc. then you can be pretty sure she won't take the swinging question too well.

 

It seems to me that someone like that ending up with a person who even WOULD swing, much less actively seeks it out, is a recipe for disaster.

 

In fact, it could very well be a sudden end to a promising relationship.

 

Between people with such large differences in their value system, I would think an early sudden end is better than 10-15 years of misery, followed by a sudden end that should have happened a long time ago.

[realcplub2 513]

I think I would in fact prefer to be in the lifestyle and meet the community and maybe even "her" that way instead of the other way. However as a single male (even as an attractive one) I am assuming becoming active in the community would be like an atheist getting invited make a speech at the 700 Club.

 

Perhaps I am wrong in that regard? Single men in the Lifestyle?

 

First off, allow me to address this directly. To what degree you wish to partake of the lifestyle is your own decision. Being a single male, again, faces challenges, that are difficult but not impossible to overcome.

 

Being respectful and well spoken, thoughtful go along way with ANY playmates, Single females or with couples.

 

Again, the idea being to instead of "hunting" within the Lifestyle, allowing yourself to enjoy the experience and If "she" comes along, Great, if 27 other "shes" enjoy your company, but aren't looking for the emotional commitment, again, enjoy

 

Read the other posts here... All offer excellent points to be considered.

 

Finally, while yes there are tons of single males that ruin it for everyone else, there are some that mentally "get it". I relate it to when you are dating... act like an ass, and usually it ends badly. Same thing applies within this lifestyle. Act like a DICK and most will write you off. Act like a gentleman with a MIND as well as a DICK, and you get further... often Way further.

[MajorQuestion 15]

honestly...

 

I think most of you have read far more into my questions than I had really expected you would.

 

For the most part I already know the answer (but felt like pinging the community anyway), which is you cant have a happy relationship with someone without your central fantasies playing a central role and communicated although not in the first few dates. I was just pinging the community to see what feedback which was a little more critical than I had hoped but granted a very small sample:)

 

Anyway, after giving it some thought I really don't care if I ever find a mate anyway. If it happens it happens, I consider myself to have a relationship with the world anyway so having someONE special really doesn't matter a great deal for me unless it just happens to happen.

 

So with that, I am putting on my "looking for fun" hat and see where it takes me. If it doesn't work I always have my great hobbies anyway.

 

Thanks!

[fun4Ds 1,098]

I don't think you have what it takes to find a swinging spouse, for yourself.

 

Love the world, and enjoy your hobbies

[Sunswept 161]

""... I already know the answer (but felt like pinging the community anyway), which is you cant have a happy relationship with someone without your central fantasies playing a central role and communicated although not in the first few dates...""

 

Swinging is like the dessert course in a multi course meal. It evolves within a relationship... which are the main courses. Swinging can be a part of a relationship, but is never the biggest or most important part of one.

 

It is very common for the main courses to become so filling, there is no room left for dessert, and even though a couple swings (or a single even) it is not high enough on their priority list for them to be as active as they once may have been! Intuition897 comes to mind here, at least as it pertains to this forum!.

 

Also, I think it is impossible to screen for a mate open to swinging because that person may have never been inclined to enter the lifestyle with anyone else in the world but you.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

I take back what I said MQ, about not having what it takes.

 

If, you can listen and understand what Sunswept has said, anythings possible.......

[GoNatural 104]

I feel the original poster's pain. I also desire to have a primary partner to live with, and to love in every sense of the word. I have come across some women that would have tried swinging with me. At least one third of the women that I dated would have.

 

I on the other hand, have some experience. The first couple that I met with was back in 2002. The hubby watched me with his wife when I was 22. To this date, I've been with 9 couples. Four of them were one nighters, and they could have been more than that. See, I'm not a newbie.

 

I still face the same problem as the original poster. All but a minority of single women would consider some form of non-monogamy when forming a new relationship. That minority does exist though, and I have stumbled across more than one before. They were not a good match for me in other ways though. So, I had to be strong and not get into an LTR with them just because they were sexually compatible with me.

 

You say that you would be ok if you and your partner never swung more than a few times, but by saying that you are implying those few times are a must for you. If that is truly the case and it is really that important to you, then you owe it to yourself and any potential spouse to just be up front about it.

 

Being up front about it is risky. This puts being in an open relationship as a very high priority, and basically works as a filter. It may take too long to find women that don't want monogamy, even though they do exist. Then, there may be other things about them that I don't like, as it has happened in the past.

 

I've considered it would be wise to mention it before getting sexually involved, if I do chose the "be up front" plan. Yet, I wouldn't mention it before the subject of sex came up naturally. I wouldn't force it. I still think the failure rate of this would be quite high. One out of 6 would be open to the idea, I think.

 

As you should know by now, it's not too hard to tell how someone feels about things as you get to know them better. If her idea of kinky is leaving the lights on, wouldn't get within five miles of a toy store, wouldn't go in a strip club or male revue, etc. then you can be pretty sure she won't take the swinging question too well.

 

I do believe that the odds can be increased by weeding out the sexual conservatives. It has been true in my experience. Also, those women that are alternative in other areas of their lives, or are adventurous, are more likely to be open to non-monogamy. It is known that creative types, such as artist, are more likely to not be monogamist. Still, the majority will prefer monogamy, but certain traits can be seen as indicators of a willingness to explore.

 

I do love to debate this issue. I am constantly learning. It is a dilemma that I face also.

 

I seem to have two big options:

 

a. Mention it before experiencing sexual intimacy with the woman.

 

b. Don't mention it till later in the relationship. Chose her for other reasons, and then bring about the idea of non-monogamy in many ultra tiny baby steps. I would still screen a woman for sexual compatibility and kinkiness, even for being with in a monogamous relationship. I can't be totally traditional all the way around with it comes to sex. I would be unhappy.

[sahajacpl 95]

 

So with that, what might be the best way for me to filter out women who would be completely against this lifestyle while at the same time not being a complete and total freak (although I suppose this qualifies as being one).

 

We do not believe that there is a best, or, fool proof way of filtering out women who would be completely against swinging. Also, attitudes change over time, so someone against swinging, initially, will in due course is willing to try swinging and swapping mates with another couple for sexual intercourse. But, again, there is no guarantee that she will agree to have sex with someone other than her mate.

 

We did it the old-fashioned way-we found our soul mate first, someone with whom both of us would want to spend the rest of our life. The issue of nonmonogamy to enjoy sex with someone other than one's own spouse and swapping mates for sexual play and intercourse came about in baby steps. This approach does seem to work for many married couples, though there is no guarantee it will work.

 

The choice is that you find a mate that will agree to swing before hand but might not make for a happy union in other ways, or, find a soulmate first, and, then work on the idea until both of you agree to experience the nonmonogamous swinging lifestyle and enjoy sex with a variety of partners.

 

[SecretAsianMan 348]

Oh wow... I could write BOOKS on this particular topic (as another single guy in the lifestyle with a similar outlook & goal)

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

I think trying to find a woman who has considered the idea of swinging and non-monogamy as a step in finding a spouse is likely to yield nothing.

 

Why? Simple. Odds. Let's say there's X number of women. Of that X, there's a subset that are single. Of that set, there's a subset close enough in age to you for you to be comfortable. Another subset whom you're attracted to. Another subset that is attracted to you. Another subset where both of you have enough connection and common ground, goals, etc. to make a long term relationship work. Then, at the end of all that, you'll add on yet another subset that reduces the available prospective population down more than probably any other; interest in non-monogamy (Z).

 

The number of people who have been exposed to the topic of non-monogamy as a relationship choice and seriously considered it for themselves is a minority of the population. Even further, the people who have made a decision to live life like that if it goes that way is far smaller than the superset of people who've considered it.

 

You're literally looking for a needle in a haystack.

 

If you're going to do that, you're going to need to be advertising yourself in a lot of ways, with good advertisements (read: personals) and be very blunt about your wishes in them "SM seeks life partner to love, adore, treasure, and share the depths of our souls together. Prefer physical non-monogamy as a life choice".

 

Your chances of finding a woman to marry who might become a swinger are far better than finding a woman who is already a swinger or amenable to it. Yes, this risks finding a woman who is not at all interested in swinging. But, your chances are MUCH better.

 

If you had spoken to my wife five years ago about swinging, you would have sworn up and down that she would have lead a nationwide campaign to bring about the end of this forum and all swinger support sites on the net. She would have been absolutely, totally, completely against it. No way, no how, absolutely not going to happen stick your fantasy under that dirty old rock in the back yard and forget you ever thought about it.

 

Yet, here she is now; a self professed swinger and avid enjoyer of having sex with men other than her husband. Even more incredibly, it was HER idea that was the catalyst behind it all.

[Powerglide 235]

The choice is that you find a mate that will agree to swing before hand but might not make for a happy union in other ways, or, find a soulmate first, and, then work on the idea until both of you agree to experience the nonmonogamous swinging lifestyle and enjoy sex with a variety of partners.

 

 

I'm not so sure that these are separable. If someone is devoted, say, to hiking and camping outdoors and so on, then that person's most appropriate mate wouldn't be someone utterly uninterested in outdoor activities. And so with recreational sex.

[ViSexual 1,008]

If this is that important to you then only date women who seem to be very open about sexuality.

 

And, early on, talk about fantasies and most erotic encounters with her.

 

And, be sure to share your swinging experiences.

 

I think the conversation will certainly lead to sharing her feelings about swinging with you.

 

But, be careful, because people will say things they don't really mean if they're infatuated at the moment.

[couplers 4,642]

Although I sort of stumbled into my own nonmonogamy instead of planning it, finding women for hubby post-marriage was more calculated. What I learned from doing that (successfully I may add) are three things: 1) people will open up if given the opportunity; 2) it's about her, not you; 3) it's a numbers game.

1. When the talk does eventually and naturally turn to sex, ask questions without any pressure. Most people will tell you just about anything if you are non-judgmental, accepting and empathetic. What are her likes and dislikes? Any answer should meet with "Oh, that's nice. Can you tell me more?" Don't push it, it won't happen all at once, but if you make her comfortable she will likely tell you everything, including fantasies. (Oh, you'd like to screw Brad Pitt? That's nice, can you tell me more?") If she doesn't open up, however, that tell you something too.
   
2. In both the discussion phase and in the reality phase, everything should focus on her, not you. Of course, you will want yours too, but that will come. If you had asked me if I would ever have let my hubby screw other women I would have said, "No way!" but after he gave me sexual freedom and fulfillment for myself, I saw the light. Now I enjoy what he does almost as much as what I do. It's amazing what people will go for if it is about them with no conditions or expectations on them. And amazing how they will reciprocate that unconditional love.
   
3. As other posters have said, you won't find many woman just ready and waiting to join you in the Lifestyle and a LTR. But if you take a somewhat methodical approach with woman you find attractive on other levels, you can open up the possibility. If she will talk about past sexual relationships without inhibition and with a sense of adventure, you can take it from there, slowly and always focusing on what she wants. The woman you are interested in will be intrigued by the gift you are offering her, even if she had never done or even considered it before. If not, move on, the right girl is out there, waiting.
   

 

As I have said in other posts, I have gone through the process with probably a hundred fifty women (friends, acquaintances, casual encounters; any unmarried, good looking woman that is not a relative or co-worker and at least 18 years old) although I have stopped now that Clair is our permanent gf.

 

Step 1 - After the first couple of meetings and conversations, just about every girl opened up to me about her sex life and fantasies. I never pushed it, just created the opportunity.

 

Step 2 - Hubby and I would then treat her generously and with great civility, never with an expectation of anything in return. I enjoyed this "dating" of the girls tremendously, and it fueled endless sexual fantasies for hubby and me. When the two of us girls were meeting alone, I would disparage hubby's physical appearance in some way (actually hard to do, if you saw him), and just about every one of them would say she thought my husband attractive.

 

Step 3 - Finally, if she was open enough and found hubby attractive enough (and I was able to create a comfortable enough environment), a few said that she would like to sleep with him. My response? OMG, Hubby finds you attractive too, I would be flattered if you did, I can arrange it. (This is where remembering our previous fantasy talks were helpful. Did she want a romantic weekend away with him? Or her place? Our place? Me there or not?) Hubby had sex with a handful of the women I recruited (recruiting gave me an incredible sense of control, as well as "WTF am I doing?"), all for at least ten months. Out of all of the women I initiated a conversation with the thought that it was a possibility, there is not a single woman that had any regrets; we are still friends with many of them, their current boyfriends and husbands, including the ones hubby slept with. We are proud of that, our goal is to treat women well and create opportunities for the like-minded, not to exploit them.

 

So this is also my advice for finding what you want when dating - be generous, be understanding, create the opening for her to reveal to you that she is what you are looking for, and be ready to move on. And remember to measure your success by not only whether you get what you want, but also by how good the experience is for all the women, especially the majority that aren't the one. Let us know how it goes. Take care.

[JM153 346]

I agree with all the others that you should find the soul mate first. However, since having an active alternative sex life is important to you, her attitudes should be part of what makes her a soul mate. You can learn a lot about someones attitudes by talking about things. Just as you learn their politics, thoughts about family, thoughts about children, etc, you learn about their thoughts on sex. If sex is not important to them or it must only be after marriage then the chances are slim that they will evolve into a swinger. Of course even if sex is important and they have had fantasies of group sex it does not mean that they are going to want to experiment with the swinging community. So, I agree with the others who advise to participate in the lifestyle as a single and enjoy it. Who knows, you may meet that perfect woman at a swinger function. At the same time pursue your other hobbies and be on the lookout for a woman that enjoys them as well. Then when you are dating you can discuss your sexual philosophies.

[Alura 2,774]

I would think that it's important to find a woman who has already demonstrated her affection for non-monogamy. Mrs. Alura was twenty-six when I met her and had had almost as many sex partners, most with no strings attached... including a college professor when she was a co-ed, just because she thought it would be fun to live a cliche and she was attracted to both him and the challenge. She got her man! I loved her adventurous nature immediately.

 

Sex on the first date is a plus. It shows she believes in her own ability, not the calendar's, to make decisions. She shouldn't be encumbered by convention. Mrs. Alura asked me to go out to dinner and the course of my life for the next twenty-seven years was set.

 

It helps if she has two degrees, in Psychology and Communication. She taught me how to communicate.

 

Make an agreement early-on that you will never become angry because a question, which must always be answered, is asked. "I don't wanna talk about it!" must be strictly prohibited. I never feared to ask the woman a question.

 

Oh, yeah! A fabulous long-legged body with big boobs looks good on any woman.

 

Good luck!

Alura

[cocpl2007 170]

Interesting question MajorQuestion. Mr. Co here. Like SecretAsianMan “I should write a book!”

 

I too came to the single life from a marriage which included lifestyle play. It was something I enjoyed very much. Something I find curious is that I never engaged in any lifestyle play when I was single. Not that I wasn’t interested. Not that I didn’t actually attempt to attend some functions, but it was that the line of single guys trying to “get-in” was just too long.

 

I wasn’t very happy as a single guy, outside of a relationship. Whether or not my lover was interested in the lifestyle wasn’t important at the time. I never hid the fact that I’d been previously involved from any I seriously dated. It wasn’t something I made a big deal about. Some were interested/intrigued some were not. I wasn’t sure myself about the “requirement” that to be serious, to contemplate marriage she must also have a desire to participate in the lifestyle. It seems this took care of itself. Those who were not sexually adventuresome seemed to drift away quite naturally. I never hid who I was, nor what I’d done. But, future play with other couples was not an absolute “requirement” to me.

 

So my suggestion. Take your time. You’ll find out soon enough if the ladies you are dating have similar views as you… if it is a “requirement” that they do, it seems to me that you’ll have a very good clue early on in your play, together.