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Would you attend parties at a club that was openly racist?

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We have a local club where blacks are very vocally NOT allowed. The owner is a true old school bigot. We went once and he went on and on about how there would never be any of "those" in his club. For us, that was enough - we never went back.

 

However, the place draws a crowd, and we often get invited to go there. We always decline, and if pressed, we do politely explain why. Most people will say, "oh yeah, he is like that, but it is his place and it is his right to allow whoever he wants in".

 

I don't get that. To me, if you patronize a place that is racist, you are supporting the concept. I don't get mad at people about it, but the thing is that most people look at us as if we are nuts because we wont go there.

 

Not sure what the deal is here. We've been in the LS for a while now and thought it was all about open mindedness? Are we missing something?

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To me, if you patronize a place that is racist, you are supporting the concept.

 

You answered your own question. Most people that are racist don't want to be upfront and out about it but they are more than willing to support the cause like you have stated.

 

Just how the world is. You are doing right in my eyes by not going there but that is only up to you. You have to do what is right for you.

 

You have to allow others to do what works for them even if you don't agree with it. If they came to our place and started voicing those views they would be asked to stop it or leave since that is not the views of the owners.

 

As you stated, it is his place and he does have the right and so do his guests. You don't have to take part in it and I personally would not support it but I will stand by his right to be the way he is.

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There wouldnt be a chance in hell that you would catch me in a club run like that. Sure, people are free to run thier buisness as they choose (to a degree, I suspect he may actually be breaking some laws here), but people are also free to watch and cheer as that same buisness goes under.

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It's like you said, it's their club, and they can decide who is and is not welcome. Their particular practices would keep me far away from their club, but that's my prerogative.

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My wife and I would not come near the club.

 

Let's see...

Same organs: Check

Same tooth color: Check

Same origin of species: Check

Same blood color: Check

What did you say about not of the same race?

 

 

Recently, I saw a profile where a couple said they don't play with non-whites, and won't play with people who do.

 

NEXT

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What is very noticeable on some swingers websites,is that some members mostly in the South include in their profile a preference to "stay within their own race". Guess some things never change!

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No, we wouldn't attend. #1 would be by attending we would feel like we were indirectly supporting something we are opposed to, and #2 we're out to have fun, so who wants to go somewhere and hear crap like that all night. Serious buzz killer there.

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With so many clubs and party houses being raided at unpredictable times, the risk of being exposed in the local news media is enhanced when an establishment attracts undesirable attention. That would be a real buzz kill.

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Wow, of all the things that I read on this site that leaves us shaking our heads, this is one of the tops. Unbelievable. Clearly our answer is no way. For us, we'd hate to get involved with a couple that held those beliefs. Totally unsexy if you ask us.

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Chicup isn't politically correct, sure I'd go.

 

Let me splain.

 

If the crowd was there because it was a great club and such, the fact the owner decided he didn't want blacks would be a minor concern. I'm going to meet couples not talk politics or bias.

 

If the crowd was LIKE the owner and it was a skinhead group, KKK like, or whatever, and they were there BECAUSE they didn't let in blacks then I'd not go because those are not the people we hang out with so I know we won't have fun.

 

Swing clubs are uncommon and while it is not fair, sometimes I'd rather have fun than fight ever social injustice while staying home feeling offended.

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Some people put the darndest things in their profile, and it's all OK. If that's what they're looking for and wanting to play with, so be it.

 

It's the same with this club owner. It's his club and he can choose the type of patrons he wishes. I too feel like I'd be supporting his racism if I went, so we'd just rather find a club that appealed to and patronized everyone.

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I'm politically incorrect too.

 

I wouldn't like the policy, and if we had another option on a night we really wanted to get out, we would choose the other option, because we don't want to support rascism. We play with dark-skinned people when we are attracted to them. It would bother me that the club didn't let them in, because discrimination is wrong, and because... well... some of our best friends are black. For real, they are.

 

But... we have played with one couple who had something in their profile about not wanting blacks. Doubtless some of our other playmates have felt that way too, and just not said so, so we didn't know it.

 

And... in life in general, sometimes we make the choice to support things we know are wrong, because we are getting some benefit we don't want to give up. Going to a club like that wouldn't make me happy, but I might do it if there were some strong incentive.

 

Like I said, sometimes we make those choices. Most of us make choices like this but don't acknowledge them or don't think about them. I buy my meat at the supermarket even though I know the animals are horribly mis-treated. I patronize places that probably are unfair to their workers. I could go on, but I think everyone who watches the news could come up with their own examples. These choices are just generally not thought of as badly as the choice posted by the OP, even though they harm other people too.

 

Racism is bad. But I realize I can't fight every fight, every time, so sometimes I compromise. In my opinion, we all do this in some areas of our lives. A few of us admit it.

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The Fuse said:
I'm politically incorrect too.

Like I said, sometimes we make those choices. Most of us make choices like this but don't acknowledge them or don't think about them. I buy my meat at the supermarket even though I know the animals are horribly mistreated. I patronize places that probably are unfair to their workers. I could go on, but I think everyone who watches the news could come up with their own examples. These choices are just generally not thought of as badly as the choice posted by the OP, even though they harm other people too.

 

I think part of what sets this apart is the apparent overtness of the bias involved. True most of us patronize places or businesses that we suspect may do things we don’t like, but when the proprietor comes out and makes it a selling point it crosses the boundary from speculative to cold hard reality.

 

Sure my Nike’s may have been made in a third world sweatshop, but I don't really know. However if a company advertised as "Passing slave labor prices onto our customers", I don't think I would wear their shoes.

 

It's not just self imposed ignorance either. When a company hides their shady practices, you can support that company without sending the message that you are totally fine with it. You are shielded from that by the veil of public uncertainty. When a company comes right out and advertises their reprehensible views though, then you are directly supporting those views by supporting the company. The description of this club made it sound as though the exclusion of non-whites was a prominent point of the clubs image, and as such (for me) it crosses the line.

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The Fuse said:
Like I said, sometimes we make those choices. Most of us make choices like this but don't acknowledge them or don't think about them. I buy my meat at the supermarket even though I know the animals are horribly mistreated. I patronize places that probably are unfair to their workers. I could go on, but I think everyone who watches the news could come up with their own examples. These choices are just generally not thought of as badly as the choice posted by the OP, even though they harm other people too.

 

Racism is bad. But I realize I can't fight every fight, every time, so sometimes I compromise. In my opinion, we all do this in some areas of our lives. A few of us admit it.

 

You make an excellent point there. I'm guilty of some of those things too, but I guess I'm more willing to give up an evening at a club than a good steak.

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I think part of what sets this apart is the apparent overtness of the bias involved. True most of us patronize places or businesses that we suspect may do things we don’t like, but when the proprietor comes out and makes it a selling point it crosses the boundary from speculative to cold hard reality.

 

Sure my Nike’s may have been made in a third world sweatshop, but I don't really know. However if a company advertised as "Passing slave labor prices onto our customers", I don't think I would wear their shoes.

 

It's not just self imposed ignorance either. When a company hides their shady practices, you can support that company without sending the message that you are totally fine with it. You are shielded from that by the veil of public uncertainty. When a company comes right out and advertises their reprehensible views though, then you are directly supporting those views by supporting the company. The description of this club made it sound as though the exclusion of non-whites was a prominent point of the clubs image, and as such (for me) it crosses the line.

 

There are some really good points here. When the bias is really overt it is very distasteful.

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My automatic, instantaneous reaction: No way. My reaction after reading and thinking: No way. It's not being politically correct, it's my gut instinct.

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I think part of what sets this apart is the apparent overtness of the bias involved. True most of us patronize places or businesses that we suspect may do things we don’t like, but when the proprietor comes out and makes it a selling point it crosses the boundary from speculative to cold hard reality.

 

Sure my Nike’s may have been made in a third world sweatshop, but I don't really know. However if a company advertised as "Passing slave labor prices onto our customers", I don't think I would wear their shoes.

 

It's not just self imposed ignorance either. When a company hides their shady practices, you can support that company without sending the message that you are totally fine with it. You are shielded from that by the veil of public uncertainty. When a company comes right out and advertises their reprehensible views though, then you are directly supporting those views by supporting the company. The description of this club made it sound as though the exclusion of non-whites was a prominent point of the clubs image, and as such (for me) it crosses the line.

 

I think I must agree with all of the above. Bias and racism are always going to be out there, but when it is really out in the open its time to move on and go elswhere.

 

What is very noticeable on some swingers websites,is that some members mostly in the South include in their profile a preference to "stay within their own race".Guess some things never change!

 

The preference thing does not bother me all that much, as we are attracted to who we are attracted to. It would be much better to just leave it off the profile and just say no thanks to any whos race they dont find attractive. Now I never want people to stop putting we dont play with "insert race or other qualification here" and wont play with those who do. Seeing that makes it easy to just pass them by and remember to never want to meet them. Thats racism not just preference.

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While I find the strong stance on racism nice, I think we haven't really examined this question enough.

 

If your town only had one club and it was said club, would you attend? Its either go there or stay home? Is your indignation enough to give up swinging all together if that was your only outlet?

 

In a similar vein a local club of ours started to advertise HEAVILY in 'urban' publications. We started feeling like the scene at the bar in Animal House. It became a defacto urban black swing club. They didn't want us and we didn't want them. We're we banned? No, in fact the owners were white, but did we feel welcome? Not at all. But hey if that's what that group wants, I'm not going to claim foul when it comes to swinging. There are several swing groups which are divided on various lines from style, to racial, to weight. Should I bet upset that we don't qualify for a BBC or BBW group? Should I tell those who are interested they shouldn't go have a good time?

 

We all discriminate in swinging to some degree and I don't see doing it based on race as any more evil than all of our other unchangeable discriminations.

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Chicup,

 

I understand what your saying and agree with you totally. We all make choices that many would call discriminating in some way.

 

You personally did not feel welcome once the club you went to promoted to the urban crowd but they did not ban you, you still had a choice. There is a difference.

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Chicup said:
Why do I have a feeling the OP is a regular poster who doesn't want their name associated with this topic

That is my guess. Also my guess is that the OP lives in my part of the USA as an establishment fitting this description is exactly 39.1 miles (by road) from where I live.

 

Swinging is not about open-mindedness. It's about fun, friendship and sex. I guess JoAnn and I tend to not ask prospective swap partners or prospective friends to which political party they belong, what kind of feeling they have about school taxes, what synagogue they are members of, what kind of ethnic heritage they carry with them. We might ask them if they like the Toronto Maple Leaves or the Pittsburgh Penguins. We expect that they will carry the same kinds of prejudice and bias that the wider population of non-swingers have. I certainly have my prejudices. When I see a shabbily dressed guy in a public place puking his guts out the word "bum" comes to my mind much more easily than the more complicated concept of "poor unfortunate man". During a jury selection I was asked by the defense attorney that if I saw a black man on a street corner at 3 am yakking on a cell phone, would I assume he was making a drug deal. I answered yes. What they forgot to ask me was that if I saw a white man on a street corner at 3 am yakking on a cell phone would I assume he was making a drug deal. The answer would also have been yes.

 

If it does happen the be the same place, the only person who talks about exclusion of the races is the person who collects money at the door. Never have I heard any of the other party attendees talking about it. No, we are not going there any more. Not only because the old man was becoming a little tiresome with his outspoken opinions but owing the the fact that we were not meeting a lot of interesting people there.

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Chicup said:
If your town only had one club and it was said club, would you attend? Its either go there or stay home? Is your indignation enough to give up swinging all together if that was your only outlet?

 

If the club was very openly racist, no we would not go there. With Bunny having a management position it could be bad. I think that if caught or outed the racial aspect would cause more problems than the swinging. No we aren't racist, but going there could cause guilt by association and any activity with any of the black employees where she works would then be suspect.

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If the club was very openly racist, no we would not go there. With Bunny having a management position it could be bad. I think that if caught or outed the racial aspect would cause more problems than the swinging. No we arent racist, but going there could cause guilt by association and any activity with any of the black employees where she works would then be suspect.

 

Ok now THERE is an aspect of it I didn't think of. Interesting point.

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We ran into this once at a hotel party, my wife was flirting with a black man, and a white male came up to me and said "I can't believe you allow that" obviously referring to the race issue......

 

At least several other occasion's I have heard comments like "so this lady or that lady "likes blacks"...

 

Generally speaking we prefer to stay within our own race, but that is not the only factor used when deciding who to play with. I do notice in many, many profiles online stating preferences such as they want a White or Black partner...... This is really no different, if you go to this "club" your seeking a specific partner.....

 

If you go to a S&M club....expect S&M, if you go to a fetish club.....expect fetish..... Everyone is so worried about "political correctness" they have lost sight... I imagine this club restricts Single Males (As most do)...they must be "prejudiced" against Single Males..... I bet if someone didn't meet the dress code they wouldn't be allowed it... they must be "prejudiced against fashion... I bet if some white homeless guy came to the door they wouldn't be allowed in...they must be "prejudiced" against the homeless... one can go on and on.

 

Racism is wrong and if this club was open to the public that's just not right, but it's a private party for those who are invited in the door!

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SW_PA_Couple said:
Also my guess is that the OP lives in my part of the USA as an establishment fitting this description is exactly 39.1 miles (by road) from where I live.

 

My guess here as well. Sounds an awful lot like the Mountain Retreat in PA. That dude asks you if you are black right up front when you call to make a reservation. If you are, the call is over. We've been there on a few occasions. Great location and building. Poorly executed club though on many other levels. I think that that the owner's biases and the fact that he himself is not in the LS don't help the matter.

 

As for why we don't go any more? More or less the same as the OP. Plus, I can't see giving this guy any money when there are two other better run clubs in the same general area?

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I show up at clubs with two women as I am in a polymory relationship. One is a 6 ft tall black woman who is almost a clone of First Lady Michelle Obama. The other is an Equadoran woman who speaks little English! The way I see it, their loss!

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Would we, attend parties at a club that was openly racist?

 

I would want to go in, occasionally. However, Mrsfun says No, she's not coming in.

 

Don't expect to see us.

 

I support my wife's decisions on many things. This would be one of them, I can.

 

That's how we roll...

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Personally that is his right.

 

My wife and I spoke about other races and she is NOT in to black men, it just doesn't turn her on, so knowing that, maybe we would go there.

 

We haven't been to a club yet, maybe next month, so maybe that will change.

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We ran into this once at a hotel party, my wife was flirting with a black man, and a white male came up to me and said "I can't belive you allow that" obviously refering to the race issue......

 

We ran into something similar one time at a M&G at a club. We were seated at a table with two other couples, one both white (as we are) and a black/hispanic couple. Even though it was pretty obvious that we were hitting it off pretty well with the other couple, when I was chatting with the white couple about other clubs in the area, one of them made a statement along the lines of "we don't like to go there, too much mixing of the races." Then they sort of caught themselves and said "nothing wrong with that, just not for us."

 

It wasn't said in an ugly or confrontational tone, and with the music and the way we were seated, no one else would have heard it but me. I just shrugged it off thinking it was an odd statement to be making given the situation. It was either a case of "open mouth, insert foot" which I think is most likely, or else was a perfect example of expressing disapproval while smiling at you which people in this area have made an art form.

 

We did end up going to a playroom with the black/hispanic couple, and when we came back everything was still cool and all three couples went right back to socializing. Later on, after the mixed couple had left, the Mrs. was hitting it off with a single black male and was spending a lot of time on the dance floor with him, and the other wife was teasing her in a good way about having so much fun in one night.

 

So to me, that's kind of the difference - they had their preferences for clubs and playmates, and while I may not agree with it at all and it probably would have better off left unsaid, it's their prerogative to have their preferences. But, if they had said, "people like that shouldn't be allowed in here" then I would have had a serious problem, probably would have said something in reply, and we would have distanced ourselves from them the rest of the night.

 

Sometimes it's hard to tell what some is really saying, whether they are just stating THEIR preference or else trying to tell you either directly or indirectly it should be YOUR preference too, but when it's a clear case like the OP describes, then we want no part of it.

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No, we wouldn't attend. #1 would be by attending we would feel like we were indirectly supporting something we are opposed to, and #2 we're out to have fun, so who wants to go somewhere and hear crap like that all night. Serious buzz killer there.

:ditto:

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one of them made a statement along the lines of "we don't like to go there, too much mixing of the races." Then they sort of caught themselves and said "nothing wrong with that, just not for us."

 

So to me, that's kind of the difference - they had their preferences for clubs and playmates, and while I may not agree with it at all and it probably would have better off left unsaid, it's their prerogative to have their preferences. But, if they had said, "people like that shouldn't be allowed in here" then I would have had a serious problem, probably would have said something in reply, and we would have distanced ourselves from them the rest of the night.

 

Sometimes it's hard to tell what some is really saying, whether they are just stating THEIR preference or else trying to tell you either directly or indirectly it should be YOUR preference too, but when it's a clear case like the OP describes, then we want no part of it.

I think there is a very important distinction between something a person doesn't find attractive, which is what people would call a "preference" -- they don't like blonde hair, or tall women, or black skin, for instance -- and the state of shunning someone because they belong to a "race" -- a whole group of people who share visible genetic characteristics. People who say "mixing of the races" are in the latter category. The former is a harmless preference. The latter is a harmful bias that hurts a whole group of people, and the rest of us by proxy. Whether or not they are trying to influence the actions of others, their racism is still repugnant.

 

cplnuswing: I don't mean to be picking on you. Your post just made me think, because of the words you quoted from what your club acquaintances said. I don't mean to offend.

 

Some people have an honest preference, in that they may find black skin or hair just unattractive, in the same way they might find tall women unattractive. Just not what they are attracted to. But here's the important difference: They would never shun tall women as a group, or say people who were with them were "mixing". There would never be a question as to whether they would let their sons date a tall woman. It would just be "my son's attracted to tall women, but I'm not", or "different strokes for different folks".

 

I think there are a lot of people who are racist who say "just not what I'm attracted to". Surely there are a lot of people with an honest, purely attraction-based preference who say the same thing, harmlessly. The ones who are not being honest are expressing themselves in a more socially acceptable manner. We don't know who is masking their racism by calling it a "preference", until they expose themselves like the club owner in the original post, or people who say "race mixing".

 

But again, I think the distinction is important. And I think a lot of people lose sight of it or are deflected by the "just not my preference" line.

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Race is surely a hot button issue, isn't it? When we started swinging 20 years ago, the club we went to most often (run by "Charley") did not allow blacks. We couldn't care less. One night we went to another club in the same town, one interesting black man we were talking to said he thought he had seen us at "Charley's." We laughed and said that we sincerely doubted that. He laughed too, and it was clear he was joking with us.

 

We have had several good times with black folks. We lived for three years in a country that was 98 % black and loved every minute of it. Racism is just not part of our makeup. However, boycotting a private club that discriminates is also not part of our nature. Anyboy who wants to do that is free to do so, or so we think. However, we also think it is silly PC stuff!!!

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Realy? Damn, now Im gonna have to find a cracker barrell around here and then fail to shop there!

 

I think I might try to find a male friend willing to pull a stunt against them. If I do, I'll report back here :)

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cplnuswing: I don't mean to be picking on you. Your post just made me think, because of the words you quoted from what your club acquaintances said. I don't mean to offend.

 

None taken whatsoever. I think we are saying the same thing, you're just doing a much better job of it than I am :)

 

 

I think there are a lot of people who are racist who say "just not what I'm attracted to". Surely there are a lot of people with an honest, purely attraction-based preference who say the same thing, harmlessly. The ones who are not being honest are expressing themselves in a more socially acceptable manner. We don't know who is masking their racism by calling it a "preference", until they expose themselves like the club owner in the original post, or people who say "race mixing".

 

Very true. Like the club owner, when someone has removed the mask and there's no doubt where they are coming from, then it's easy for me to make a decision to be no part of it. Other times, like seeing a statement in a profile that makes you wonder whether it's a truly an attraction-based preference, or something more that would mean they are probably not people you want to spend time with, it's not so clear as to what path one should take. Assume guilt, or assume innocence?

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That's any easy answer. No. It's not about political correctness. We deeply and firmly believe that overt racism, regardless of who is doing it, is abhorrent and we are not going to patronize a business that supports it.

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Just a random thought on this:

 

What if the owner of the place said "no Jews" or "no Catholics" or "no whatever??" Kind of curious as to where the line is? If its OK to say no blacks because its his place, what ISN'T it OK to say?

 

Not trying to be a pain, but I guess I really don't see how this is OK at all. The OP says that it is a club, so I assume that it is a private club, and not at the owners home? If it is a party that is advertised to the public, I guess I just don't see how its OK to exclude anyone on the basis of race or religion or anything else other than illegal activities? And for what its worth, I am probably the most non politically correct person you will ever meet? :)

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wpafuncpl said:
Not trying to be a pain, but I guess I really don't see how this is OK at all. The OP says that it is a club, so I assume that it is a private club, and not at the owners home? If it is a party that is advertised to the public, I guess I just don't see how its OK to exclude anyone on the basis of race or religion or anything else other than illegal activities? And for what its worth, I am probably the most non politically correct person you will ever meet?

More than a random thought; an astute observation.

 

The particular place about which I speculated, no way to know of course, advertises "parties" rather than as a club. Could be a way of side-stepping, I suppose.

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We wouldn't go. Mostly because we are hispanic and I'm guessing we also wouldn't be welcomed.

 

However I do believe that in a "truly" free nation (which we really aren't) such a person should have every right to create such a club. Free market shall rein and if such a club doesn't make it then it doesn't make it, vote with your wallet.

 

Remember kids are you truly tolerant if your intolerant about intolerance? -V

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But again, I think the distinction is important. And I think a lot of people lose sight of it or are deflected by the "just not my preference" line.

 

But does it really matter under the circumstances of swinging?

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I think there are a lot of people who are racist who say "just not what I'm attracted to". Surely there are a lot of people with an honest, purely attraction-based preference who say the same thing, harmlessly. The ones who are not being honest are expressing themselves in a more socially acceptable manner. We don't know who is masking their racism by calling it a "preference", until they expose themselves like the club owner in the original post, or people who say "race mixing".

 

But again, I think the distinction is important. And I think a lot of people lose sight of it or are deflected by the "just not my preference" line.

 

Very hard to be cut and dry with things like this. The issue has many layers. Sometimes I think flipping it around is easier. If a black couple said "we dont play with white couples b/c we just dont feel comfortable with them", and the meaning was that their feeling was that there was just too much of a cultural gap to bridge, is that racist? To me, I wouldnt say it is. If a white couple said the same, there would be a strong temptation to call it racist. I think this is an *extremely* tough issue to draw judgment on (someones choice of who to have sex with) I mean does it get any more personal?

 

If someone only draws a line when it comes to who they choose to share their bed with, I have a really hard time calling them racist.

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But does it really matter under the circumstances of swinging?

That's a personal decision, of course. But in general, many things that matter in "real" life still matter to me in swinging. I've never been one to buy the rationale that bad behavior doesn't matter just because it's in the context of swinging. It's not some alternate universe. We are all still real people.

 

Again, I won't say I draw a bright line and everything the least bit questionable makes a person off limits to me. But certain things are really a turn-off in my world. Excluding people solely on the basis of race is one of them. I'll certainly decide against pursuing someone if I think there is too wide of a cultural divide. But I don't make that decision based solely on skin color.

 

Another earlier post made the point that it is often hard to tell the difference between "preference" and racism. Yes, it can be hard to tell. The only thing we can do is make our own judgment call. I give people the benefit of the doubt, or at least I try to.

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Another earlier post made the point that it is often hard to tell the difference between "preference" and racism. Yes, it can be hard to tell. The only thing we can do is make our own judgment call. I give people the benefit of the doubt, or at least I try to.

 

This is the core of it really. It is definitely all about finding a personal comfort zone. I believe strongly in people trusting their instincts and erring on the side of caution. We are a mixed couple (note somewhat less than creative name :D), so this issue hits home for us in a lot of ways.

 

Mrs. Mix is Asian, so it's a bit different. Of course there are true racists who just run from you like you were aliens, so for us its not hard to weed out those ;) And the more unconscious racists or the folks whose preference is just not an Asian chick and/or a white guy would run from us as well, so again, not a big decision to make there :D

 

But there is also a kind of racism in the sense that race is actually *driving* the preference (Asian chick fantasy, black guy fantasy, etc). This is another very tricky area, but it's had its own threads and I don't want to thread jack :blush:

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That's a personal decision, of course. But in general, many things that matter in "real" life still matter to me in swinging. I've never been one to buy the rationale that bad behavior doesn't matter just because it's in the context of swinging. It's not some alternate universe. We are all still real people.

 

Again, I won't say I draw a bright line and everything the least bit questionable makes a person off limits to me. But certain things are really a turn-off in my world. Excluding people solely on the basis of race is one of them. I'll certainly decide against pursuing someone if I think there is too wide of a cultural divide. But I don't make that decision based solely on skin color.

 

Another earlier post made the point that it is often hard to tell the difference between "preference" and racism. Yes, it can be hard to tell. The only thing we can do is make our own judgment call. I give people the benefit of the doubt, or at least I try to.

 

Well despite talking about being attracted to men of her favorites sports team who are not all white, Mrs. Chicup is a white only swinger.

 

She finds no attraction to other races.

 

Now if she mentions that is she a racist? You can't tell.

 

Now I know being I know how she acts and who her friends are but unless I told you you would have to be guessing.

 

So would you or would you not swing with such a person?

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That would all depend on presentation. There's a world of perceptual difference between "I've never been attracted to a black man" and "I won't play with a black man". The first seems to allow for the possibility and indicates that the person works on a case by case basis, while the other is categorical denial.

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Well despite talking about being attracted to men of her favorites sports team who are not all white, Mrs. Chicup is a white only swinger.

 

She finds no attraction to other races.

 

Now if she mentions that is she a racist? You can't tell.

 

Now I know being I know how she acts and who her friends are but unless I told you you would have to be guessing.

 

So would you or would you not swing with such a person?

 

I would swing if attracted, unless they made it clear enough that I could not ignore, that they held views that made me dislike them. Like I said I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Not only that, but in spite of what I wrote earlier, I tend to be okay with more negative qualities in a playmate that I wouldn't put up with in a friend. Just up to a point which is really impossible to define clearly. If your wife or anyone else mentions "I'm a racist" as you wrote above, I would have to ask what they meant by that. (Really I would rather keep conversation to lighter subjects if I was considering sex with someone, but if they brought it up...)

 

I probably would not play with your wife though... I like men :).

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Rackir said:
That would all depend on presentation. There's a world of perceptual difference between "I've never been attracted to a black man" and "I won't play with a black man". The first seems to allow for the possibility and indicates that the person works on a case by case basis, while the other is categorical denial.

 

But both are the same thing. I see what you mean but not everyone plays word games.

 

I personally can say 'I won't play with a black man' because I'm straight.

 

I can also say "I've never been attracted to a black man" and it is true.

 

If you are not racism sensitive, as in you are not looking for racism or not trying to show you are not racist, saying you won't play with a black man will not be racist, its just being parsimonious. Mentioning its due to a physical characteristic could seem a bit pleading. Like 'I won't play with a black man but its not because I'm racist but because I am not attracted to dark skin, but its not because I'm racist, just so you know, some of my best friends are black men, or they would be if I knew any.'

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I would swing if attracted, unless they made it clear enough that I could not ignore, that they held views that made me dislike them. Like I said I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Not only that, but in spite of what I wrote earlier, I tend to be okay with more negative qualities in a playmate that I wouldn't put up with in a friend. Just up to a point which is really impossible to define clearly. If your wife or anyone else mentions "I'm a racist" as you wrote above, I would have to ask what they meant by that. (Really I would rather keep conversation to lighter subjects if I was considering sex with someone, but if they brought it up...)

 

Which was what I meant by would it matter in swinging of course. For all I know some of our play partners were people with horrible views, but we weren't together to talk politics, religion, or the like. Now obviously as you said if someone goes out of their way to let you know just how horrible their views are, thats a different matter.

 

I probably would not play with your wife though... I like men :).

 

Yea I knew that but figured it was a better example than myself who has more latitude than the Mrs. in that respect :lol:

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(Really I would rather keep conversation to lighter subjects if I was considering sex with someone, but if they brought it up...)

 

Agree here. On an individual level, a cpl's opinion on matters like this would almost never come into play (so to speak) for us because they would never likely come up in conversation unless the other cpl was very blatant about it.

 

At a club or party level, as the OP was discussing, if it were policy at that level, we would not be a part of it.

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