Wife full swaps, I'd like full swap, but wife doesn't want me to...

[memcme75 15]

I'm seeking a little advice... I've been married to a great woman for 12+ years, and I have been completely faithful the whole time. When we first got married we were at some friends' house and after a few (several) drinks we ended up playing then full different room swapping with them. There was NO female play at all, she swore she had no interest in women and the thought repulsed her - it was a "straight" swap.

 

It only happened once and we are still great friends, it does come up from time to time in a light humorous conversation but that's as far at it will ever go again (my wife and I just don't want to go there with them again).

 

Okay...We didn't do anything with anyone from the 1st play date until year 8 or 9. We became friends with a couple who lived about an hour away, she was attractive but he wasn't so much. After hanging out with them a few times we ended up back at their house all of us full of liquid courage. We sat on their couch with him and I on each end and the ladies in the middle. They (the other couple) started kissing next thing I knew my wife and I were kissing, then out of the blue the other lady started rubbing my wife's leg. Then they started kissing... oh hell yeah!! Sorry..lol

 

To make a long story short we ended up soft swapping with the ladies putting on one hell of a show for us... my wife liked it so much she even met the other woman for some 1 on 1 girl time. Needless to say she's admittedly Bi for life. Anyway, that lasted over the course of one winter then they moved away We didn't do anything else for about a year. Then I brought a buddy of mine in to fulfill her fantasy... a MMF 3some. She loved it and we've been doing that off and on for about a year and plan on continuing. She is also actively seeking females whenever we go out to clubs.

 

Here's my problem, I would like to full swap and she doesn't really want to. I get off watching her do everything and I only want the same in return. Her excuse is (please don't think I'm arrogant I'm direct quoting) "You're so good I'm afraid that who ever has sex with you will try to steal you."

 

Now we have a great sex life (talking about me and her) I am an average man and do anything I can to please her sexually. Then she tells me she doesn't know if she could watch me having sex with another woman (oral is ok as long as she is occupied with her man). When I mention it the only response I get is "You just want to be with another woman with my approval."

 

This isn't fair, I won't use the threesome as leverage because I will only get a "I don't care if we ever do it again" response. And I don't feel that is a viable reason to do something (leverage or guilt trips only lead to disaster).

 

Am I the only one? Is there a way to move us toward the lifestyle? I'm not looking to do it every weekend but just from time to time. She doesn't want to try any swinger networking sites. We tried that but she has a problem hooking up with just anyone on the internet (understandable) and says if it happens it happens but we are never in a situation for it to "just happen".

 

I could try to be sneaky but I don't think it's fair when three out of four people involved know what time it is, that is a recipe for a divorce when you start keeping secrets.

 

Am I destined for just MMF threesomes or is there a way I can "nudge" things along?

 

Thanks for reading this. Your advice would mean a lot.

[Rackir 159]

Hi there. First off, welcome!

 

This is (I think) definitely the right place to come with this problem. Unfortunately I doubt if you're going to like the answers you're likely to get.

 

The fact is, she has set her limits based on her comfort level, just as you did according to your comfort level. The only problem is, your comfort level and hers are different, however that is really the only difference. You can certainly keep trying to convince her that you're not going to be stolen away (a phrase which makes me think she is a little uncertain if you guys are really in a place to play like this), but in the end you have to decide if her restrictions are something you can live with or not, and what to do about it from there.

 

You can either keep doing what your doing, enjoy the show she puts on for you and be thankful for what you have until such time that she changes her views while knowing that that may never happen. Or you can decide that it's fair or nothing and so deny her the opportunities for MMF's or any FF play. Or you can decide that this is something you have to have in a relationship and look elsewhere for a partner who will give that to you.

 

Sneaking around to be with other women or couples or to set something up should not even be an option. If it is, just bite the bullet, admit your marriage doesn’t give you what you need, and file for divorce.

 

As to her being afraid that some other woman will "steal you away", all I can say is that no one can steal what can't be stolen. If she really felt that you and she were rock solid, then I don't think this would be a concern for her at all. She though has expressed a concern that if you fool around with another woman, you may wind up leaving her, and that belies an insecurity that is anathema to this way of life.

 

If you should choose to go with the first option (which most will say is the best one, but only you can know for sure), I'd say that you are currently on the right path. Talk to her gently, and let her experience the joy of knowing many different partners, and let her know that you love her, but that you too want that joy. Don't pretend that you want to do it just to give her a good show (it's obvious that your satisfaction is what is compelling you here, otherwise this wouldn’t be an issue for you), but be completely honest with her about your feelings. Find ways to show her that no other woman will come between the two of you, and maybe in time she will come to trust that no harm will befall your relationship if you play with another woman. Most of all, be patient, and do not get frustrated when this doesn't work. The more anxious you are, the more likely it is that her insecurities will simply increase.

[Dave_kat 227]

While it has happened slowly, you have progressed from a drunk party where everyone was having fun to her actively seeking other women to bring to her bed. (As well as occasional men as well.)

 

You can't push these things along, you do have to keep progression at the comfort of the slowest member, which seems to be your wife.

 

A couple of questions for you though.

 

These other women your wife seeks out, where is she doing that and how successful is she? My wife used to go to a gay bar and hang out, and would sometimes find a woman to bring home. I would usually try to get to know the woman as well, because I made it a rule that I needed to feel comfortable with the person as well before they did anything. This led to her discovery that the lesbian who she thought she brought home was actually cool with a MFF threesome and I was sometimes invited along.

 

So perhaps if you made that a rule for yourselves you might see some progression. Just once and your wife might understand that sharing should be fair all around.

 

Also, have you thought of just saying no? It sounds to me like you both are expanding your horizons, but you both should be giving permission for something to happen. If it is not doing anything for you, exciting you anymore with the limits she has placed, then it may be time to step back away from things.

 

Your rules should be equal between both of you. What is good for one should be good for the other. You should both sit down and talk about all of this and explain that to her.

[The Fuse 1,012]

This is an interesting question. Here's a recent thread you might be interested in: Does "fair" matter? - The Swingers Board

 

The best answer in my opinion is "If it works for you, it works. If it doesn't, don't do it". Pretty much as simple as that. Lots of couples have rules that aren't "fair" to one or the other and it works for them because they are both comfortable.

 

Have you talked to your wife about her concerns with you having another female partner? Sex is just sex... you have been together for over a decade. Even if you have great sex with someone else, that would never have an effect on the relationship you have with her. Have you asked her how she feels about having good sex with her other male partners? Does she ever have feelings for them like she was drawn toward them emotionally? I'm guessing the answer is no. Perhaps if she realized that you would have the same perspective, it would make it easier for her. But from what you wrote, it sounds to me like she is simply a bit insecure in your relationship, for whatever reason. The more secure you can make her feel, the more I'd bet she would be willing to see you do.

[it'sso 198]

If you feel you are being cheated in your sex life, you are.

[Sunswept 161]

.....Have you asked her how she feels about having good sex with her other male partners? Does she ever have feelings for them like she was drawn toward them emotionally? I'm guessing the answer is no. Perhaps if she realized that you would have the same perspective, it would make it easier for her.....

 

Hopefully this is the case, howerver one insecurity she could have may arise from her having unwanted (or wanted??) feelings for her playmates, and she is projecting that on memcme75.

 

If I trust my partner to keep things sorted when they have sex with other people, and I do not have that level of trust from my partner coming back to me, I would be having concerns. And not just about the sex, but about fundamentals of the relationship with my partner.

 

You can keep the status quo for a while, but over time resentments are probably going to build up if you try to force yourself feel OK with this when you don't.

[memcme75 15]

I would never "sneak" around and do anything or set anything up without her knowledge, just to be clear, I have never cheated. But I have figured out if it's her idea then it's ok, if it's mine then not so much. hence part of the thread title. She is extremely smart and can smell bull**it a mile a way.

 

Like I said one minute she's all for doing anything but letting me have sex with another woman, the next she acts like she could care less if we ever do anything. Then on occasion (usually during heated love making after we get home from dancing and buzzed up) she will bring it up but only while she is buzzed and very worked up. she will talk about a ffm 3some or a full swap and tell me she wants to see it, then I'll bring it up a day or so later and she will tell me it was just talk but if it's something I really want to do she will let me but she's not sure how she will handle it.

 

I don't want her to "let me" do something if she has reservations and I wouldn't go through with it if I had any thought that she may be uncomfortable no matter how worked up I am, I just want to play fair but be fair to her as well. I have come to terms with me situation and can live with what I have with no regrets I just reached out for a little advice for bringing it up and making her more comfortable in reaching the final level so to speak. I want her to enjoy watching me as well as I do while I watch her.

[LFM2 1,482]

First off, to the Swingers Board!

 

While I didn't read this, I would hope nobody here would suggest you sneak around or cheat. Most swingers are above board honest and wouldn't even think about sneaking around or cheating on their spouse. I'm glad to read that you'd have nothing to do with that, too.

 

I do agree with The Fuse and just talk about her reservations of seeing you with another woman. Swinging is so much fun, and after all, it's just sex. Sex. Period. We keep our swinging life as simple as possible. It's sex. No head games, no drama, no bullshit. Now, being a woman, when we first started swinging, I did have reservations about Dave having sex with another woman. What if she was better than I was? What if he left me for her? What if? What if? I seriously let my imagination run away with me about the "what ifs" It's almost hilarious to me now the thoughts I had. When we played for the first time, we had a full-swap. When I seen him with another woman after two decades of marriage, I wasn't sure how I was gonna feel. Well, it was actually very erotic and turned me on immensely. I can't believe that I was so scared of letting him fuck another woman. I can look back and see how silly I was.

 

We've also done our share of MFM's and they are fun too. Why do you think your wife might be more willing to share herself with another man? Because she knows she's not going anywhere. From reading your two posts, it sounds like she might be just a bit insecure about sharing you with another woman. It's normal. So how can you overcome this? Communication. Talk with her, over coffee at the kitchen table (NOT in the bedroom while having sex) and ask her why she's not willing to have a full-swap. That might be the only way you're ever going to know and how to fix it. It takes a lot of reassurance for some women.

 

Does your wife read these threads? She might find some really good advice, or some reassurance by some of the posts here. I wish I could give you a pat answer to what you're looking for. It's going to take a lot of communication/trust/respect/honesty on both your parts.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world.

[sweet_tna 680]

Sounds like, for whatever reason, she's a little insecure about your relationship. She seems to like the idea behind swinging, but perhaps isn't prepared for the reality. After all, your first few experiences came about when the alcohol was flowing . . .

 

Time to sit down with her over coffee/tea/breakfast and talk this out. Ask her why she seems interested in playing one minute, and couldn't care less another. Why is she afraid if someone had sex with you, they'd steal you away? This is (or should be) just sex. For someone to steal you away, there'd have to be an emotional investment on BOTH sides.

 

Better yet, share this board with her. After reading a few threads, it's easy to see that most swingers are out to have some hot sexy fun, and we're not looking to steal anyone's man/woman.

 

Best of luck to ya'll . . .

 

=)

[sexcupid 809]

I want her to enjoy watching me as well as I do while I watch her.

 

The others here have offered some wonderful advice...I just wanted to comment on this sentence in your last post.

 

*pulls on flame-retardant suit*

 

She may never enjoy watching you as much as you enjoy watching her. There are a great many women that swing that find this a huge turn on, but by the same token many may not. She may get there in time or not. For me personally, I like being in a group room and having activities going on around us, but if I'm not playing with my sweetie...I don't usually keep tabs on him or watch him...I'm usually too caught up in my own play to worry about him.

 

I think that her varying reactions to the full swap/fmf scenarios (depending on if she's had a couple of drinks) is a way of working through things. When her guard is down so to speak after having a fun night out drinking and dancing, it's green light go in the pillow talk. A few days later in the harsher light of day and sober, of course doubts creep in.

 

I do not necessarily think that alcohol is "truth serum"...but it does lower inhibitions and people may say or do something they might not otherwise. If her only concern is that you fuck so well she thinks some other lady would try to steal you away, then she appears to have little faith that you would reinforce boundaries with anyone who gets out of line (ie 'my wife and our relationship is more important than any play time'). Perhaps she's projecting a bit onto you...I would turn the question back on her to try to understand a little better (if you found someone you clicked with really well, the sex was spectacular, personal beliefs were in sync, etc...would you leave me for someone else?).

 

Right now all the attention/power is with her...so perhaps she gets off on the power trip (I know I have before ). Keep talking and hopefully you can come to a better understanding.

[realcplub2 513]

Quote

If you feel you are being cheated in your sex life, you are.

 

So, what is the deal? Is there a real reason you are so sour? Did someone offer such constructive advice, when you were looking for it?

[realcplub2 513]

Hello all I'm new here good to meet you all... Very informitive.. Thank you.

 

I'm seeking a little advice... I've been married to a great woman for 12+ yrs., and I have been completely faithful the whole time. [bold] SNIP [/bold]

 

.. then I brought a buddy of mine in to fullfill her fantisy.. a MMF 3some.. she loved it and we've been doing that off and on for about a year and plan on continuing. She is also activly seeking females when ever we go out to clubs.

 

Here's my problem, I would like to full swap and she doesn't really want to. I get off watching her do everything and I only want the same in return. Her excuse is (please don't think I'm arrogent I'm direct quoting) " your so good I'm afraid that who ever has sex with you will try to steal you." Now we have a great sex life (talking about me and her) I am an average man and do anything I can to please her sexually. then she tells me she doesn't know if she could watch me having sex with another woman, (oral is ok as long as she is occupied with her man) when I mention it the only response I get is " you just want to be with anothe woman with my approval." This isn't fair, I won't use the 3some as leverage because I will only get a "I don't care if we ever do it again" response....[bold]SNIP[/bold] And I don't feel that is a viable reason to do something (leverage or guilt trips only lead to disaster)

Am I the only one? is there a way to move us toward the lifestyle? I'm not looking to do it every weekend but from time to time. She doen't want to try any swinger networking sites, we tried that but she has a problem hooking up with just anyone on the internet (understandable) and says if it happens it happens but we are never in a situation for it to "Just happen" I could try to be sneaky but I don't think it's fair when 3 out of 4 know what time it is that is a recipe for a divorce when you start keeping secrets.. Am I destined for MMF 3somes or is there a way I can "nudge" things along??? Thanks for reading this. your advice would mean a lot.

 

Ok, first off, thanks for registering, and Welcome.

 

Now after reading you post, there is only one possible track that you can take and reasonably, remain in the lifestyle.

 

You both need to sit down talk and come up with middle ground between you both as to what is fair for you both. Guessing from your post, its been in your eyes, all for her. And, the moment you wanna even up, she gets defensive.

 

Honestly, while you are still pretty new to this as far as experience goes, the concept of letting her go off and enjoy playtime without you isnt a great one, when there are these feelings over riding the over all situation. Going and playing one on one, without it being a even up for both sides is just asking for a relationship killer.

 

The only Ammo you have is to point out how unfair it has been to you, and remind her that, you also run the risk of her " pleasuring" someone into wanting to steal her. You already have over come the jealousy on your side, and now its her turn. While its a great ego boost to hear her say such things, in reality it comes off as selfish.

 

"No one touches your cock but me, but I can do whatever i want.."

[it'sso 198]

Ok, first off, thanks for registering, and Welcome.

 

Now after reading you post, there is only one possible track that you can take and reasonably, remain in the lifestyle.

 

You both need to sit down talk and come up with middle ground between you both as to what is fair for you both. Guessing from your post, its been in your eyes, all for her. And, the moment you wanna even up, she gets defensive.

 

Honestly, while you are still pretty new to this as far as experience goes, the concept of letting her go off and enjoy playtime without you isnt a great one, when there are these feelings over riding the over all situation. Going and playing one on one, without it being a even up for both sides is just asking for a relationship killer.

 

The only Ammo you have is to point out how unfair it has been to you, and remind her that, you also run the risk of her " pleasuring" someone into wanting to steal her. You already have over come the jealousy on your side, and now its her turn. While its a great ego boost to hear her say such things, in reality it comes off as selfish.

 

"No one touches your cock but me, but I can do whatever i want.."

 

Yeah! I see what you mean. YOUR statement in the last sentence is worlds apart from what I meant to say.

[memcme75 15]

Thank you all for the great advice!!!! Yes I veiw it as "just sex" and could do it and walk away without a second thought. (I don't mean that the experiance was bad just that it's just sex. My wife and I make love and share a whole lot more than sex as you all so well know who've been in the lifestyle)

I do want to say that I feel I'm competent in the sack I don't want to portray myself as a superman by quoting her, I feel this is her defense mechinism for telling me no. I think she has some insecurities that she needs to over come. I married a woman that looks nothing like she did in high school but see's herself that way... Honestly she's so hot now when we went to her high school reunion nobody reconized her and she turned every head in the room. But she thinks everyone is just being nice.. hence the song "She don't know she's beautiful" is an understatement.. I do believe the right time and right place awayfrom the bedroom and alcohol would be a good place to start.. Thank you.... Does anyone have any advice on how to bring it up? how to ask without asking? that type of thing, just to break the ice.

[BiloxiCouple 695]

I've read this one a couple of times. Who is being one sided?

[Sunswept 161]

...Does anyone have any advice on how to bring it up? how to ask without asking? that type of thing, just to break the ice.

 

Why ask without asking? Why not try the direct approach???

 

First, insure that there is:

..a lot of communication/trust/respect/honesty on both your parts.

 

Then:

.... sit down with her over coffee/tea/breakfast ...

 

and say something like, "Baby, you seem...

...interested in playing one minute, and couldn't care less another.

 

Then continue with, "Honey, what makes you...

...afraid if someone had sex with {me}, they'd steal {me} away? This is..... just sex. For someone to steal {me} away, there'd have to be an emotional investment on BOTH sides.

 

Maybe you two will be able to have a good talk about this, maybe she won't be that into discussing it. If she isn't, you really can't do much about that. I doubt pushing would help, and pushing may be part of the problem.

 

You say, swinging aside, things are good between you two right now, and you could take swinging or leave it. Forgetting about any swinging is always an option. Could be that for whatever reason, it just may not be the right time for her right now. Just tell her you want to stop swinging because things are not feeling fair to you and that she is all you really need anyway.

[mixtupcpl 169]

+1 to the idea of just bringing it up directly. No need to beat around the bush (no pun)

 

Also, definitely consider taking a pause. I know you are ok with things just staying status quo, but I dont think you are thrilled with it or you wouldnt have posted.

 

Think of it this way... You dont want her to just be "allowing" you to balance things out, but in a way, that is what you seem to be doing right now possibly. You are "ok" with the current situation continuing, but it doesn't seem like it would be your preference. To be fair to yourself, a pause and re-evaluation seems like a good idea in that circumstance.

[allnightfuncpl 60]

I don't think I could have offered better advice or said it better than how Sunswept replied.

 

Awesome reply Sunswept!