She is curious, I have questions

[sealovers 15]

Hi guys,

Mr.Sealovers here. This is the very first post with my basic question, after searching the forums with not too much luck

Here it is:

- I always had my fantasies about group sex, especially a DP with my wife, but never talked to her about this.

- Ths is crazy but I am also kinda jelous and don't know how I would feel about my wife having sex with another man......although this is my fantasy Crazy isn't it ?

- About a year ago, my wife asked me what do I feel about group sex. She told me that she has a fantasy about having sex with two men (exactly my fantasy about her)

- Because of my jelousy, I gave her an untrue answer, that I also have a fantasy about having sex with two women. Untrue, my fantasy is a DP on my wife or a full swap in the same room ending with DP's on both women.

- The subject died there and we "concentrated" in some voyeur pictures, amateur posts, toys, sex on the deck at night and things of this sort.

 

My big question is this:

- How can I bypass my jelousy stupid issue ? Did any of you guys had this thing ?

- We had our marital issues at times, maybe a few no-sex week-ends, some fights, but no super-issues. So we're not a "diamond" marriage and I don't really know what swinging could do to us. I really don't want to "jump" without thinking into something that can destroy things that I fought for.

 

Any ideas from you guys can help, might help. I'm just asking a stupid question, for the very first time in my life, about some fantasy that I don't know how to handle because I don't want it to destroy my marriage.

[VegasLee 1,486]

Welcome to the forums.

 

First off you two have to be able to talk about anything and everything with total honesty. You lied because you have jealousy issues to deal with. Many, most people can not deal with their spouse having sex with others. That is why this Lifestyle does not work for Most people in this world. As long as you have thoughts of Jealousy then you need to forget the other ideas until you know for a fact you can deal with it. That day may never come. That is "normal". YOU HAVE TO TELL THE TRUTH ALWAYS!

 

Once you can come back here and say you have that "Diamond" relationship then you are ready to consider this lifestyle. This lifestyle won't fix anything in a rocky relationship or even a border line one. It can and will destroy a relationship though if that relationship is already not one of the best in the world. Always best to make what you already have as perfect as possible before trying to add something that could destroy it.

 

Good luck to you.

[Elena 42]

Hammerhead says well said Vegas! Sealover you have to be honest with your spouse. Period. She will now take your answer and run with it, yet it isnt the truth so everytime you hear it from now on you will know this in the back of your mind. Then when you do finally tell her, she will probably come unglued about the trust issue between you 2.

 

Sit her down and let her know your true fantasy as well as your issues with it. This will let her know you want the truth between you and not necessarily your concern with her feelings. Make sense? Together you 2 can make your relationship stronger and be a real team when facing ANYTHING life throws at you.

[LFM2 1,482]

Hi Sealover and Welcome to the Swingers Board!!

 

My big question is this:

- How can I bypass my jelousy stupid issue ? Did any of you guys had this thing ?

- We had our marital issues at times, maybe a few no-sex week-ends, some fights, but no super-issues. So we're not a "diamond" marriage and I don't really know what swinging could do to us. I really don't want to "jump" without thinking into something that can destroy things that I fought for.

 

Any ideas from you guys can help, might help. I'm just asking a stupid question, for the very first time in my life, about some fantasy that I don't know how to handle because I don't want it to destroy my marriage.

 

First of all, I agree with VegasLee all the time! He never gives faulty advice to anyone and listening to his suggestions is always a good step toward a healthy swinging relationship.

 

Jealousy is an issue that can really destroy a relationship ~ in or out of swinging. Do you know why you're jealous? Do you feel she'll run off with another man? Do you think she might fall in love with someone else? You'll never know how you're really gonna feel until you're in the thick of things and you see your wife in action, in real life.

 

Also, you admitted you told an untruth to your wife and that's not good, either. You have to be completely honest with your feelings and desires. I know it took us a long time to get there, and it was out of fear that we don't want to lay out our thoughts or feelings for fear of being hurt or rejected.

 

Most times, the fantasy is best kept as a fantasy. Reality can sometimes turn around and bite you in the ass when you least expect it.

 

Fortunately, for all of us, these swinger articles are posted here to help everyone who are just getting started. Please read those articles listed and there is also a list of "DOs" and "DON'Ts" that are helpful for guiding you.

[lovinher 505]

Very good advice so far and spot on. When and if you give it a try, start very slow and test your jealousy issue. Have her flirt a little, wear sexy clothes on a night out. That sort of thing. In time you may realize it's all about having fun together and it does get easier. But if you can't be truthful in sharing your thoughts and fantasies, your 'e not even close to being ready to bring somebody else into your sex life, male or female. Seems you both have the same fantasy, so talk about it.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

No one has a perfect marriage, but before you can consider swinging (as Lee said) you do have to have completely open & honest communication about everything. You have to be able to tell her the truth about your fantasy as well as about your worries of jealousy. The more you talk about it the more trust you can build to work past the jealousy.

 

One thing I've found too often is that if someone is jealous or worried about what their partner would do it's usually because they are hiding something theirself... in this case you are hiding the truth.

[ALilOEverything 901]

I think in a marriage that is no more than average it's probably normal to not talk openly about your fantasies. I feel that being able to talk openly and honestly can make a marriage above average and is a very good start to maybe one day exploring those fantasies. I believe that when you feel like you're both holding back from communicating jealousy can arise. How can you let go of jealousy if you can't be honest or trust that what the other person is telling you is true? You just can't. Start by being open and honest with her and encourage her to do the same. See what happens then and go from there.

[sealovers 15]

I honestly appreciate your replies ! Thank you guys !

I guess I do need to be extremely honest with her and talk straight and clear.

In the bottom of my confused soul, I guess there's a stupid fear that she might do this by herself if I declare my jealousy issue. Something like "-Hey, it's your fantasy too, right ?".

During some rough time we had some months ago, some day, after sex, we discussed about swinging again and she said that maybe this would be a good way to test our relationship, our feelings. I thought and still think that this is a very wrong way to test a relationship. Later she agreed with this. Since then, our relationship changed very much for the good but I'm still not ready to plunge into this. I did tell her a few times that I would like to find a place for amateur streeptease (not exactly in our city) to see how we both feel after that. This is something I would be ok with for now. I guess this would be also a good way to test my "issues"

[lovinher 505]

IMO, if you really want to explore swinging, one of the best things you could do is go through this entire site, the both of you and not necessarily together. After a few months or even a year or so, you will realize the reasons couples swing, the implications and results. If you guys are completely honest you will learn more than you could imagine about each other. Even if you find this not for you, it may bring you both closer together. Just being able to talk about sex, fantasies, your wants, her wants does wonders. You will find that it spills over into other aspects of your lives. For us, it's a gift we give each other and it isn't just about what I want or what she wants.

[Rembrandt 15]

Mr. Sealover,

First I would recommend some introspection. What is the source of your jealousy? Is a since of ownership over another human being perhaps? Just throwing out some ideas. I know that mine was a poor self esteem. I came unto my own and my demand to control disappeared. That is my story and may well be very different from your own.

 

Rembrandt

[Alura 2,774]

I think y'all're on the right track, Mr. Sealover. You have a bit of a distance to go but y'all are talking to each other about the very issue! That's a huge step!

 

Perhaps you lied to your wife because you were afraid of what she'd do if you told the truth? If so, y'all must first remove that fear to tell the truth. Leave behind forever the concept of "telling each other what you think the other wants to hear."

 

I'm embarrassed by how many times I've given this advice on this board but here it comes again. Early in our relationship Mrs. Alura and I made a promise to each other. It was that we would never get angry because a question was brought up and that we'd always answer truthfully. "I don't want to talk about it!" was never acceptable. It worked for thirty years for us.

 

All the advice is good. Talk to your wife, not just about sexual or jealousy issues, but about life. What are her fantasies for a summer vacation? Good Luck! We're pulling for y'all!

 

Mr. Alura

[fun4Ds 1,098]

I just get so overwhelmed sometimes when true people, who understand what you might be going through offer their advice through experience.

 

We're all a little different I suppose....in some ways

 

We're not diamonds and never will be..... We're more like pearls, and ya know what yucky surroundings pearls came from. That don't mean we cant eat oysters.

 

We had problems from before we ever met that had to be dealt with, later in life. I'm not saying you guys do, but we did. Just a different viewpoint

 

The folks above me are telling you the truth, they know why.

 

I think Vegas is correct in so many ways. If you find your not a diamond though... find the tools to polish what you have and can be, to the best of your abilities. What ever that takes.

 

You may never be able to swing. But understanding that jealousy/fear and subsiding it, would be better for your relationship, than swinging ever could be, by keeping it, and letting it control you .

[mixtupcpl 169]

ing some rough time we had some months ago, some day, after sex, we discussed about swinging again and she said that maybe this would be a good way to test our relationship, our feelings. I thought and still think that this is a very wrong way to test a relationship. Later she agreed with this. Since then, our relationship changed very much for the good but I'm still not ready to plunge into this.

 

You're doing the right thing posting here. You guys really dodged a bullet in figuring the above bit out. Testing relationships is bad. Coming to a deep understanding of (and respect for) each others feelings and a place of total honesty is good. Testing pretty much always backfires and causes a lot of trouble. THIS kind of test is one you do NOT want to screw up So good job in slowing down! In our past we played a lot of games and did a lot of testing and its really only the foundation strength of the tie we have that kept us from killing each other before we came to that "diamond" state.

 

Try to get her to read here as well (or at least discuss the things you read here). There is a huge range of experience on the forums in all aspects of this.

 

The jealousy you're feeling isnt abnormal at all. It's actually extremely normal. Whether or not you can overcome it is an unknown. And there is no "right" answer. There is nothing wrong with you if this isnt cut out for you and there is nothing wrong with you if it is.

 

I think I understand your mindset when you lied and said you would want a threesome with two girls. I feel that was a kind of reflexive defense mechanism. It's really not a "bad" lie.

 

I think you should come right out and talk to her. You need to both know that you are both happy and satisfied in your relationship. You need to create a safe zone so she can be completely honest without fear of reprisal. She needs to provide the same.

 

As it stands now, you both share the same fantasy really (her with two guys). Making it really simple (its not a simple thing, but the basic outcome is)... You want to give her her fantasy, but you want to know that you're "safe" in doing that. Its really that easy.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

If you are trying to "test" your relationship, please don't swing. Talk first, talk a lot and read a lot of the posts here together and talk some more. If you feel you need to "test" your relationship, you aren't ready to swing, and someone is pushing buttons somewhere hoping someone else will screw up. A strongly committed couples with pure trust and communication should not need to "test" their relationship.

[Chicup 41]

My big question is this:

- How can I bypass my jelousy stupid issue ? Did any of you guys had this thing ?

 

Sure, and I fixed it by doing it, getting jealous a bit and then getting over it and not having a problem with it again. Now some people I think don't get over it and therein lies the danger. Personally I think if it IS a fantasy of yours you would be able to get over it. I think the jealousy issue is worse for couples where the guy wants sex with extra females and is only going along with it for his wife because he feels its the only way for him to get his.

[Rackir 159]

Hiya Sealovers.

 

I think you've been given some great advice here that’s probably spot on. I'd like to offer a slightly different take though, it's probably not the right advice for you but since everyone handles things differently it may be a helpful perspective.

 

Lighten up. It's sex and it's fun.

 

It sounds like you are pretty "in your head" right now, and that’s a great place to find fear and insecurity to get in the way of an otherwise really enjoyable experience. If your wife and you both think this experience would be fun, why not give it a try and see? Since the lines of communication between seem to be pretty wide open, odds are it wont do any irreparable harm to give this a shot.

 

If you try it, and find the jealous feelings inhibit your good time, then you know it's not for you yet.

 

If you try it and find the sexiness of the whole thing completely overwhelms any other feelings, then you know you are in the right place.

 

As long as your wife and you are communicating freely and without inhibition, then I suspect you are pretty well insulated from any lasting harm. You don't have to be perfect or be in a perfect relationship to enjoy swinging, you just need open communication, a sense of perspective (it's just sex) and a willingness to go and have raunchy fun sex with other people.

 

as I said, this may not be the right advice for you but it sounds like you have plenty of reasons to hesitate already. I just wanted to give a word or two from a different view.

 

Whatever you choose just be sure it's what you and your partner really want, and be sure you both fully understand the others reasonings.

[interested-05 135]

jealousy is primarily about fear, it is there and it can only be dealt with over time... you do need to be honest with her if you are ever going to seriously consider swinging. And hiding what you feel keeps a wall between you.

now for the nitty gritty, it takes time to adjust your way of thinking, and it may take a very long time. take everything one step at a time and you will have to agree to go only at the same level as your partner.

It can be done but it will not be easy. She brought it up because she is interested, you need to go back and tell her, you know it isnt esy for me to admit it, but I have those feelings too. Share this board with her, talk about the questions you see others ask and work your way of thinking thru the issues that concern either one of you. when you are ready go slow taking it one step at a time.

your jealousy will only subside when you are really in unison with your spouse, and you no longer have the nagging fears you have now

[Chicup 41]

jealousy is primarily about fear, it is there and it can only be dealt with over time... you do need to be honest with her if you are ever going to seriously consider swinging. And hiding what you feel keeps a wall between you.

 

I know calling jealousy a fear reaction is the current pop-psychology rage but I think its not true in terms of sexual jealousy.

 

Thats a far more primal and basic reaction. The first time Mrs. Chicup played with someone else I had absolutely no fear of her leaving, or having a better time sexually, or whatever. It was simply a primitive and powerful feeling.

[Sunswept 161]

I honestly appreciate your replies ! Thank you guys !

I guess I do need to be extremely honest with her and talk straight and clear.

In the bottom of my confused soul, I guess there's a stupid fear that she might do this by herself if I declare my jealousy issue. Something like "-Hey, it's your fantasy too, right ?".

During some rough time we had some months ago, some day, after sex, we discussed about swinging again and she said that maybe this would be a good way to test our relationship, our feelings. I thought and still think that this is a very wrong way to test a relationship. Later she agreed with this. Since then, our relationship changed very much for the good but I'm still not ready to plunge into this. I did tell her a few times that I would like to find a place for amateur streeptease (not exactly in our city) to see how we both feel after that. This is something I would be ok with for now. I guess this would be also a good way to test my "issues"

 

sealover,

There are no stupid fears, and your jealousy issue is not stupid either. It's really good you are considering these questions, but as you do don't be too hard on yourself about how you feel, or judge yourself. I find your post refreshing, I have seen enough new people post here that are so full of themselves, they say "Oh no-I'm not jealous!"... only to watch them crash and burn 6 to 30 pages later.

 

Being aware of your jealousy is the first step in dealing with it! I have even seen veterian swingers have jealousy issues come up in certain contexts, its being aware if that does come up that makes dealing with these feelings possible. And like all feelings, we feel what we feel -and how we feel is OK! However, it is how we act on and what we learn about those feelings when they come up that is important.

 

So how do you "do" jealousy? Do you withdraw and brood and sulk? Or do you start breaking chairs over peoples heads??

 

Also - do you know what triggers your jealousy??

 

If some swinging guy/girl wants to fuck my partner, and she wants to fuck them -I get off on that! But if some guy or girl has a hidden agenda of taking some swingers partner away and fall in love with them and ride into the sunset (which won't work with a real swinging couple) then that will trigger jealousy or anger issues for even the most experience swinger.

 

Also, sometimes just because you are paranoid does not mean someone is not after you. So did you lie to your wife because your jealousy is telling you something only you could know about your situation or your wife? You hinted at that you know.

 

There is "rational" jealousy and "irrational" jealousy, the same as fears. If your jealousy is a ghost of your own insecurities, that's one thing. But if something is actually going on externally that is provoking anxiety for you, that's another. Only you can know which is which, and you may not be able to sort all that out until you and your wife can discuss all your concerns, fears, jealousy's and fantasies openly and honestly.

 

In swinging, the couples absolute commitment to each other -their assurance of total inseperability-is what controls feelings of jealousy and allows the couple to discuss and work past those feelings and fears. It takes a LOT of work to get there, but beyond fear is freedom.

 

Testing yourself and your issues is OK! Exploring your jealousy by talking about them and lightly seeing what contexts bring jealousy up -short of swinging -is OK! ...but DO NOT test the relationship until you know you are both on the exact same page, have total faith in each other, and can discuss your fears as well as your fantasies!

 

As in music, "If you can't sing it, you can't play it."

[Sunswept 161]

Thats a far more primal and basic reaction. The first time Mrs. Chicup played with someone else I had absolutely no fear of her leaving, or having a better time sexually, or whatever. It was simply a primitive and powerful feeling.

 

Nature ot nurture?

 

Yeah, I know what you mean Chicup, I had a similar experience. I think there are both nature and nurture components though, it is one of the most complex emotions and has been one of the most constant focuses of a lot of literature over the centuries. For me, it felt a bit like a phobic thing, and desensitization in a supportave environment is what helped me with that aspect of jealousy. But there were other aspects as well, my own insecurities in my case, and those for me were trickier to deal with.

[mixtupcpl 169]

Nature ot nurture?

.

 

Of course any answers here can only be considered speculation as there is no objective measure, but I think this is a really interesting question.

 

Personally, I would make the case for nature. Men are programmed to preserve their own block of genetic code. This bit of programming results in something of a contradiction, but one which does make sense.

 

Men are simultaneously driven (on a primal level), to spread their genetic material as far and wide as possible, but also to prevent other males from spreading theirs. So basically, you "lay claim" to as many women as possible, and react negatively when other males move in (what we term "jealousy")

 

I suspect that monogamy and "marriage" were very early societal developments and stemmed from the reality of our gestation period, and the development time of our offspring. Higher order thinking is a big influence here. Because we rely on our brain to survive, it takes a very long time for a human to be self sufficient. We need protection for *years*. Also, we are strongest when we band together. I think early man at some point chose protecting their offspring and ensuring their survival over "spreading the seed".

 

The really interesting part is that some of this behavioral evolution can be observed in certain lower primates as well.

 

Now HOW FAR off topic is THIS tangent?!

[Chicup 41]

Sexual jealousy would be nature.

 

Men who were not jealous and didn't guard their females from sex with other males simply would have less children because of it. Rather classic genetics, and pretty standard in many animals.

[Additude 457]

Is it jealousy?

 

or fear?

 

I think it's fear your interpreting as jealousy.

 

Work on the fear part first....then see if you have any jealousy left over.