Newbees: Eager to start but getting tired of fakes and letdowns!

[EagerCouple 15]

I think this is common but how common is it really. My wife and I are ready and eager to actively start swinging. We have gone to clubs, we have found couples and single females on local boards, we have texted, we have chatted and we have even had dinner with a couple of couples and drinks with one unicorn.

 

Conversation goes really well on the web and on the phones. What we are finding more often than not is the following.

 

a) Got to finally meet, things going good. Bring it up then never hear back

(Troll or Fake)

 

b) Other people bring up a meet then they start calling it off multiple times. Heck you asked for the date, not us and once we say yes you back off??

(Not a troll or fake since both female and male side has been verified on phone)

 

c) Send out an e-mail (dozens of them) and people just never bother to

have the courtesy to even respond. The profile even says looking to meet everyone, if you are not interersted that is fine don't be shy just say so.

 

d) Meet one or two times, "dates" go great and the other couple or female even state they are interested in more...then nothing.

 

It's starting to give us a bit of a complex and just wanting to call it quits, it sometimes does not seem worth the price we are paying for no results. I am a man and men are "trained" to hear no or face rejection from an early age in sexual situations. My wife on the other hand..women don't get turned down that often and it seems to be bothering her more personally than me. I am just tired of spending time e-mailing, sending photos, talking on the phone everything going well and then nothing....Feels like a waste since we are maybe 80/0 that's 80 contacts and 0 encounters.

 

Maybe I am just venting maybe I am curious but what is so difficult in a person saying "thanks but no thanks" and not wasting everyone's time?! The lifestyle has a lot of roots in openness, well we sure are not seeing a lot of that belief in people involved in the lifestyle.

 

We are almost ready to give up on swingers and move over to regular bars and clubs and trying our hand with vanilla's since we have never seen this amount of "snobbery" and "rudeness" with non-lifestyle people. We know that the odd's will be against us with vanilla's but we are venturing to say that at least they will have a laugh and say "sorry I or we don't go that way".

 

For the curious ones no we are not Ken and Barbie but we have all our teeth, we don't chew and spit tobacco at the dinner table (at least not me HA!) and we don't set our expectations high with couples 10 years younger than us or the local gym fitness pinup girl. We are HWP, in our late 30's early 40's and have been told by close friends NOT in the lifestyle that we don't look our age and can go for early to mid 30's. We do send REAL CURRENT photos to these contacts and they continue even after receiving them so it's not that we turn them off visually.

 

WTF ??!! Anyone willing to lend a helping hand and give us some one on one advice? I don't think we are doing anything wrong but maybe we are. I feel like I am running out of time here, my wife was really getting into the lifestyle idea but I just say idea since we have only had one encounter.That was 5 years ago BEFORE we considered ourselves in the lifestyle. It was a vanilla friend of ours and it just happened, we were not out there looking for it. With all this negative energy she is seeing she is starting to lose interest in even trying, she is no longer interested in sending out e-mails to people and tell's me to handle it.

[ncmd_couple 597]

EagerCouple,

 

Honestly, I think that you are putting to much thought into this. I think that right now all of us are under a lot of stress in our lives and things just don't always work out. The hard part is keeping your chin up and keep on going. We have been swinging almost three years and even though we have met a lot of people, very nice people, so far we have only hit it off with a few. That is life. You have to keep looking until you come across the people that you gel with. Yes, it is a numbers game, just like you went through to meet your wife. Just keep looking until you find the right ones.

 

S

[SecretAsianMan 348]

There are a lot of flakes out there... especially if you're hunting through "classified ad"-type sites (AFF, CraigsList, etc.) ...I've found that local groups are better (there are at least a dozen yahoo-groups of local swingers in my area that I'm a part of) and while it's necessary to sift through all the people you're not interested in ... most of them are "real" and want to get together for good times.

[bbarnsworth 2,639]

Your lament is a common one. There are behaviors you can adopt that tend to limit the amount of energy you spend on fakes and flakes.

 

Some couples refuse to meet new contacts outside of a swing club. This can be effective; some flakes won't do it. Too risky for them. If they do set it up, and they don't show, you can still have a good time since there will be other swingers at the club.

 

Some couples (like us) don't spend a ton of time in e-mail, chat, or on the phone. We move to meet and greet pretty quickly unless the situation prevents a meet and greet from happening soon for whatever reason. A meet and greet is worth 10,000 words, is better than photos, is better than phone calls. You can cover everything in person in ten minutes that all the e-mails, phone calls, and chats could cover period.

 

Some couples don't give second (or, in our case third depending on the circumstance) chances. If you flake, you're done. Our time is valuable. Our swing time is limited. If you don't respect it and waste our time, on to the next.

 

You can send e-mails, but what is in them can make a difference. Simple one liners don't usually cut it.

 

Adapt your profile, it's your main advertising space. Make yourself stand out; why do you want to be with us? Add photos if you're not getting enough traffic. They don't have to be explicit (that's up to you) but pics that show general body type, fashion style, etc...can make a HUGE difference in the success of your profile.

 

We ran into a lot of what you have in getting into swinging. Once we decided to actually swing, it took months to get to soft swap. It took months past that to get to full swap. I remember lamenting once "Do swingers actually have sex?"

 

Hang in there It will be all worth it once it all clicks with the right couple/single. The first one or more swap might not be the right mix. Once you find the right mix, look out! SWINGING IS AWESOME!

[The Fuse 1,012]

d) Meet one or two times, "dates" go great and the other couple or female even state they are interested in more...then nothing.

This is the part I'm interested in hearing more about.

 

The other stuff... it really does happen a lot. But if you are meeting in person, getting signs of interest and then nothing, then something is keeping you from "converting". I have no idea what it could be, other than just very bad luck. Just throwing out questions-- Are you meeting with other new people, who might have more nerves, or perhaps more experienced people, who might think you have nerves? Is it possible your potential playmates are seeing something that makes them hesitate? Are you prepared to play on the first or second date, or are you wanting someone to set up a "play date" explicitly?

 

I do think you might be happier if you went to a club where you could go from first meet to play without a lot of hurdles in the way.

[NealnAnji 30]

Great advice from the previous posts. If you want to catch fish you have fish where the fish are biting.

 

The best venues to find likeminded couples are the clubs, meet-n-greets, and, also lifestyle or lifestyle-oriented resorts. Here the couples you will meet all have the same objective, that is, to meet likeminded, fun-loving couples, with whom you can play, swap mates and have sex in a variety of ways.

 

Also, do not forget that it takes time and effort to find compatible couple/s with whom you would like to swap partners for social as well as sexual intercourse. It,s a two-way street.

 

Eventually, patience will pay off and you will enjoy the lifestyle in its social and sexual dimension. You will then wonder what all the fuss was about. After all there are millions of couples world-wide who swing, play, and, swap mates with other couples for enjoyment of recreational sex with a variety of partners.

[bbarnsworth 2,639]

From another thread you said your wife has absolutely zero interest in having any kind of contact with other men. This may have a GREAT deal to do with your lack of progress in swinging.

 

Most couples are not going to be interested in sharing only one spouse or the other for an encounter with another couple. They usually both want to be involved. This may be why initial contacts with some couples go great then sour once they learn what you are looking for. "That's not for us"

 

If the only thing you are looking for is a unicorn, it's going to take a long, long time to find what you seek. Can it be done? Yes, but it will take a long time. A few months is nothing in that context. It may take years to find a unicorn to play with.

 

That should not mean your wife should feel compelled to change her stance. Nothing of the sort. But, you should be pragmatic and understand what you're up against. In trying to find couples willing to share their wife only or unicorns, you are in a small niche in the swinging world.

[lookingfornow 116]

Great advice above. I would add that when we meet or talk to a couple, we look very carefully for any signs of "drama" in the other couple. By "drama," I mean any indication that one party is pushing the other into situations that are not welcome. This is particularly true with couples who are relatively new to the scene. So, if you are giving off such vibes, that may be a problem.

 

Also, are you disclosing all of your significant play restrictions prior to the meeting? For example, if you are only interested in one type of group sex contact (let's say female-female only) and only want to watch and be watched otherwise, is that something that clearly appears in your profile? Personally, we are a full swap couple. Shared voyeurism is not really our thing. So, we would not be interested in playing even if we thought you were the most wonderful couple in the world. Further, we would be somewhat upset if we first heard about such a restriction or expectation at a meeting.

[good times 991]

I too have read your previous post in which you said your wife has zero interest in men. If that is still the case it is no surprise to me at all that you are having no luck. Frankly, I have never met anyone that would be interested in a couple in which the woman will not play with men.

 

On the other hand, we have met a number of couples recently who do have a woman who will only play with other women. Unfortunately, they have about the same success rate at hooking up as you are having.

[The Fuse 1,012]

I too have read your previous post in which you said your wife has zero interest in men. If that is still the case it is no surprise to me at all that you are having no luck. Frankly, I have never met anyone that would be interested in a couple in which the woman will not play with men.

 

On the other hand, we have met a number of couples recently who do have a woman who will only play with other women. Unfortunately, they have about the same success rate at hooking up as you are having.

 

Oh.

 

Yes, if you are not bringing up what you're looking for-- or not looking for-- very soon after initiating contact, and before meeting in person, then you're setting yourself up and wasting everyone's time. If your wife has no interest in other men, that needs to be said up front, in your online profile AND when you first start emailing, chatting etc.

 

These four little words save everyone a lot of trouble: "What are you into?" And then flipping the coin: telling the other couple what YOU are into.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Have you tried going to a swinger club or social? We find that to be a much better ROI than the dinner date thing. We can meet people, play that night if we want to or not, and we can meet many couples in one night, so no wasted dinners.

 

Another thing, how long do you expect to get to know people before you play? You mention you've had at least one instance where you saw them multiple times but nothing happened. What we've found is that the likelihood of playing decreases, the longer the time between first meet and potential playtime.

[EagerCouple 15]

Thanks for all the replies they were all appreciated. We are a full paid member of a somewhat local web site and have attended a local club 4 times in about the past 3 months. Our profile have RECENT photos from straight to cute/hot in the public pages (no faces) to HOT but not HARDcore in the private pages with face pics. We are fully truthfull in the profile and do state that she is not interested in male penetration, we believe in fully disclosing everything because we are REAL. We are going to meet and WTF! if you lie and you meet what the heck is that going to get you? I know if it were us we would be upset and the other person or couple would not get anything anyway so why people bother with false advertisements I have no idea.

 

As far as the comments about bad luck with only girl/girl play or girl/girl full swap and couple soft play I got to disagree with that a bit even as a newbee. Maybe it's a regional or a club thing but it's REAL common in the local swing club and it's quite common with web site profiles. Our profiles have basic interests listed in the profile IN addition to what you may write in your "open essay" of the profile. Many of the profiles show girl/girl only and soft swap while a few show full swap or full swap seperate room. Unless it's a do as I say not as I do situation I don't think it's that.

 

Nerves...I really think you all may be onto something there. We are meeting with somewhat new people to the lifestyle in the area. Honestly it seems the expirienced ones are not really interested in meeting new people, they have their click and gang and seem to stay together. Now is it 100% click, no I am sure people are allowed into the "sacred circle" on occasion but we are not Ken and Barbie, I am sure "athletic/fit/god type" have full access to those clicks at any time but regular "HWP" couples who are normal average people need some sort of "in". So our best results so far to even receive a reply on the web site or someone to say hello back at the club is usually the somewhat new people...shoot starting to sound a lot like High School all over again ;-) Maybe it's because of this that we are having trouble, we may be new and serious, while others are new and nervious or have cold feet ?

 

How long before we "put out" if you want to be funny about it ? I don't know we have talked about it and it would vary. We could meet the perfect couple or unicorn and find ourselves in a pretzel that same evening! We could meet some people and feel a 2nd date after a "personal talk" between husband/wife would be appropriate would be the right time. Some people may just be "friend" material since there is no sex chemestry but if they are friends someday down the road our feelings may change. We are looking for people, not sex toys. We have found that friendships can lead to more even if that thought was not there to start.... It's not black and white really...

 

I don't think we have a lot of rules and are probably quite common, you tell us but from the local swingers it seems common. Safe Sex is a MUST, my wife is not interested in male penetration and I'll be with the other woman only if they both agree. No rules, just guidelines and those are meant to be bent and revised as we go on, we are new and open minded.

 

Are we placing too much thought into this ? Maybe so...but it seems like a lot of people agree, it can be rough and it just seems for such and open lifestyle a lot of people seem very inconsiderate. We like to people watch and we have seen more than one occasion even in a FTF meeting at the club people offer a simple hello and get no reply back, not a wave or even a nodd of the head. That is actually kind of what brought on this conversation between the wife and I after our last club outing and I was just wondering if people have seen similar issues or it's just us thinking too much.

[EagerCouple 15]

Oh and for Julie...the most we have seen anyone is 3 times. Once a chance encounter at a club, we will call that the initial meet and greet it was short sweet and not really personal other than Hi nice to meet you some chit chat for like 15 minutes. We ran into them at the club one other time and spoke quite a bit on that encounter, after that evening we contacted them and made a dinner date which went well. So everyone else has been e-mails getting to know people then trying to schedule between their sitters and our sitters (hey a lot of people do have children!) then setting a date. Some reach the date and time then back out and others just stop at the request for a date.

 

Oh and our first day at the club we did meet a unicorn and we did get along. It's just been a matter of her and us finding a night to meet at the club when we all will be there at the same time since she nor us go to the club each and every Friday and Saturday night. Maybe we will be more lucky than others in the long run once we do hook up. Neither of us can host...my next suggestion is just a hotel room if fri/sat is not working out for either party.

[Adam-n-Eve 223]

Even though we've only been active in the lifestyle for about a year, we've had good luck. We seem to average about one new couple a month; and we've usually met our playmates through the websites like Swing Lifestyle or Adult Friend Finder.

 

Based on my experiences, I would venture to say that it might be the people you're meeting, but it might be you as well. I don't know what your profile says, but I know there are people we shy away from based entirely on what their profile says, or how they act once we meet them.

 

Since we're full-swap, we have very little interest in couples that aren't; even when we think they're extremely attractive. We've talked with a couple of soft-swap couples, but when it comes down to it, we've gone through with it just once. There's just something missing from the experience if I can't have sex with the women -- something I learned after the one and only time.

 

I'm thinking that the more experienced people are shying away because you're just not offering what they're looking for (nothing wrong with that, on your part) and the new couples who tend to be good with soft-swap are more skittish?

 

We try to reply to everyone who writes us, but there are some we don't bother with. Our profile states that we want to see pictures before we invest a lot of time. When a couple sends us a one (lame) line message and two blurry photos that don't really show anything, we tend to toss it.

 

So, my advice would be to look at who you're contacting to see if you're going after a skittish group, and to look at yourselves to see if you're doing something to put up red flags. For example: If the other woman showed very little interest in me when we meet in person, we wouldn't go through with it, assuming the couple is just after my wife. Any comment that says I "may or may not" get to participate once we start to play is an instant killer. Too many rules (I know you said you don't have many, I'm just listing red flags) ends the pursuit. Drunken behavior when meeting is a bad sign. Drug use may be an issue if it appears you have to get high to enjoy swinging. Overly political talk turns us off; we're not there to bash Bush, we're their to play with it (previous statement not be be taken as in indication of our political sway). Racism bothers us (we've seen a surprising amount of that). Too many meetings or conversations will usually end with us losing interest.

 

Though honestly, we haven't met with too many couples we haven't ended up having sex with. Maybe three. The first one was when we decided to meet a couple without having seen a face picture of the man. We won't do that anymore. Another ended up being flakes who strung us out for a couple of weeks. We won't pursue another couple for more than a couple of meeting requests anymore; it's up to them to get back to us once we've made an offer they've refused. The third couple decided to go exclusive with another couple.

 

Most of the bad behavior we've seen were couples at the clubs or at meet-and-greets -- people we never actually tried to meet.

[EagerCouple 15]

Even though we've only been active in the lifestyle for about a year, we've had good luck. We seem to average about one new couple a month; and we've usually met our playmates through the websites like Swing Lifestyle or Adult Friend Finder.

 

Based on my experiences, I would venture to say that it might be the people you're meeting, but it might be you as well. I don't know what your profile says, but I know there are people we shy away from based entirely on what their profile says, or how they act once we meet them.

 

Since we're full-swap, we have very little interest in couples that aren't; even when we think they're extremely attractive. We've talked with a couple of soft-swap couples, but when it comes down to it, we've gone through with it just once. There's just something missing from the experience if I can't have sex with the women -- something I learned after the one and only time.

 

I'm thinking that the more experienced people are shying away because you're just not offering what they're looking for (nothing wrong with that, on your part) and the new couples who tend to be good with soft-swap are more skittish?

 

We try to reply to everyone who writes us, but there are some we don't bother with. Our profile states that we want to see pictures before we invest a lot of time. When a couple sends us a one (lame) line message and two blurry photos that don't really show anything, we tend to toss it.

 

So, my advice would be to look at who you're contacting to see if you're going after a skittish group, and to look at yourselves to see if you're doing something to put up red flags. For example: If the other woman showed very little interest in me when we meet in person, we wouldn't go through with it, assuming the couple is just after my wife. Any comment that says I "may or may not" get to participate once we start to play is an instant killer. Too many rules (I know you said you don't have many, I'm just listing red flags) ends the pursuit. Drunken behavior when meeting is a bad sign. Drug use may be an issue if it appears you have to get high to enjoy swinging. Overly political talk turns us off; we're not there to bash Bush, we're their to play with it (previous statement not be be taken as in indication of our political sway). Racism bothers us (we've seen a surprising amount of that). Too many meetings or conversations will usually end with us losing interest.

 

Though honestly, we haven't met with too many couples we haven't ended up having sex with. Maybe three. The first one was when we decided to meet a couple without having seen a face picture of the man. We won't do that anymore. Another ended up being flakes who strung us out for a couple of weeks. We won't pursue another couple for more than a couple of meeting requests anymore; it's up to them to get back to us once we've made an offer they've refused. The third couple decided to go exclusive with another couple.

 

Most of the bad behavior we've seen were couples at the clubs or at meet-and-greets -- people we never actually tried to meet.

 

Some really good points there, thank you so much and we will consider many of them. Photos are not an issue, I have done it in the past for pay so you won't be seeing the itty bitty camera phone pics on-line you need a magnifying glass for and are all blurry when you do see them. Ha we know what you mean. We have several and they are recent between the last 2 months to the last week.

 

I have only once brought up anything remotely related to politics and that was only after knowing the people AND with people we had decided as friends but nothing more. We agree..no place for relegion or politics here...

 

In the past few weeks my attitude has changed and so has my wife's. We try making contact and say hello with something personal but not too much. Our profile has the rest of the information if they are interested and people have access to 6 or so photos without a face. If they seem interested in the profile and the initial photos we will give them access to our private photos that have both face pics and some more sexy photos but nothing hardcore. My wife feels that it's not necessary, if they want to see that well it will be in person first! I got to agree, nothing requires a wide open "coochie" shot to decide if you want a date or not.

 

We will offer to meet up two times, nothing comes from that then we move on, if they contact us after we move on we will call it as we see it to meet or not. Others that offer to meet up we will give them 2 chances, if you bail out after the 2nd chance (breaking dates) then we move on. Honestly if it's going to be that difficult then honestly you must not be that interested and why force something if you are not that into it? I also see it as rude and thoughtless and I don't care how attractive you are we don't deal with thoughtless people. Hell it's only a date and its for fun..my wife and I can't have fun with someone who does not care for others. We no longer chase people by e-mail, phone or text...even if we would meet I think it would be with a sour taste in our mouth and doomed from the start so we don't try.

 

Could it be the wanting of full swap ? SURE! But then again we don't contact anyone who says FULL SWAP only. We respect interests and only contact people who say soft swap, thresome's and less. Why waste someone's time if they want more than you can offer??Same is likewise...But we have had people contact us that wanted more even though it clearly states no full swap.

 

I can't say we have seen any bad behavior at clubs, clicks sure but nothing bad. Some people keep to themselves and their little group and won't give anyone else the time of day, maybe a smile back but nothing else and hey...may not be fun and they may be missing out but not bad behavior. Only behavior that I see is on the internet where people ask for one thing, you offer it and they don't have enough respect to at least say "thanks but no thanks". If you are going to waste someone's time by asking for something in a profile and having someone offer that meets criteria at least respond back. Sure not everyone is going to be attracted to everyone else no one expects 100% hook up factor but at least the courtesy of thanks but not interested is I think usually appreciated. If people are going to take the responsibility of the lifestyle I think people should be ready to man or woman up enough to be honest and no thanks. Be nice about it but at least have the guts to say no.

 

Wife has said she want's friends and then see what it leads to. I am tending to think that ain't going to happen....it's going to be meet up-hook up-see what it leads to! Kind of backwards from what she was looking for so we should be having a good discussion about it tonight possibly. We also will start re-thinking of wanting to meet others that are new to explore. Adam/Eve good point...newbees are probably the most risky even if you are a newbee. You may be serious, sure and all for it but just because you are a serious newbee that does not mean that the majority of others are too.

[exploringRM 305]

Wanting friends first and then see where it goes....We were there when we started. We decided that was way to difficult. It seemed easier to click sexually and then see where it goes as far as friends. For the most part we've been successful in that..only have a few encounters that didn't pan out to more meetings. Nothing real bad, just didn't feel that strongly about meeting again.

[The Fuse 1,012]

We have gotten to the point where we mostly pass on profiles that say they want to "develop a friendship and see where it goes" or "take it slow". We don't need to play on the first date, but we want to swing and are looking for others who do too. If we wanted platonic friends, we wouldn't be looking for them on swinger sites.

[EagerCouple 15]

We have gotten to the point where we mostly pass on profiles that say they want to "develop a friendship and see where it goes" or "take it slow". We don't need to play on the first date, but we want to swing and are looking for others who do too. If we wanted platonic friends, we wouldn't be looking for them on swinger sites.

 

Humm..great point.

 

Reason we went to a swinger site is that it's very connected to our local club. We go to the club since we want to meet open minded people since that is what we are like and where else to meet people like us than at the club. We are not heavy drinkers so going to a local bar and hanging out is not really our thing to meet people either and a lot of people that go to bars are looking to pick up the usual single. Sure I am sure a couple can probably get a single male with little to no trouble but a couple or female is going to be a bit more difficult.

 

It's not like we can talk to co-workers, scout leaders, or church people we interact with openly What came first the chicken or the egg, in our case the club came first then the web site.

[The Fuse 1,012]

Humm..great point.

 

Reason we went to a swinger site is that it's very connected to our local club. We go to the club since we want to meet open minded people since that is what we are like and where else to meet people like us than at the club. We are not heavy drinkers so going to a local bar and hanging out is not really our thing to meet people either and a lot of people that go to bars are looking to pick up the usual single. Sure I am sure a couple can probably get a single male with little to no trouble but a couple or female is going to be a bit more difficult.

 

It's not like we can talk to co-workers, scout leaders, or church people we interact with openly What came first the chicken or the egg, in our case the club came first then the web site.

 

You have lots of company in these sentiments. There are a growing number of people who go to swinger clubs and seek friends on swinger venues because they are looking for people "of like mind" with whom they can be relaxed and talk about sexual things openly. I figure the more people that do that, the more acceptance swinging will find among more and more people, so overall I think it's a good thing. There are a lot of threads that talk about this trend.

 

Having said that, I'll also say this trend makes it somewhat harder for people who actually play to find the others who do, among the people who are perhaps not really interested in playing. Some people who play get very discouraged when it seems like swinger's clubs are composed more of non-playing people than of people who want to swing. So we consider it good etiquette to ask people we meet, if we are interested in them, "What are you into?" and hope for an honest answer. Everyone can be friends, but if some of us are looking for more it is nice to know if the attractive couple in front of you is compatible before spending a lot of time.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

You mentioned once that you now have more time to pursue the lifestyle.

 

Are there groups in your area who share the same interests, strictly bi female wives ?

 

I know we have been to a few of those and quite honestly, its all about girl on girl or maybe even more along the lines of "Girls gone wild"

 

 

Can you host a party, with the intentions of what your seeking ?

 

Just curious.....

[bbarnsworth 2,639]

We have gotten to the point where we mostly pass on profiles that say they want to "develop a friendship and see where it goes" or "take it slow". We don't need to play on the first date, but we want to swing and are looking for others who do too. If we wanted platonic friends, we wouldn't be looking for them on swinger sites.

 

We feel pretty similarly. We've developed some friends in the lifestyle, but it's fairly post-facto as things go. We don't get a lot of time to go out for swing related activities. We like to make the most of them when the opportunity arises. We're quite amenable to playing on the first date in part because of this, and we have a communication system with each other to subtly ask the other if it's all go before moving on to swapping.

[EagerCouple 15]

Great posts...thanks everyone I'll try to reply to all of them if my memory holds up, not necessarly in order though.

 

Yes looking for like minded couples but if we were not open and interested we would not consider it "like minded" so I would not say we are in that classification, we would play but we are still searching and I will say up front even though we do not plan to play on the first date it COULD happen but we are open minded..depends on the person or couple we never say NEVER BUT on the other hand we are not the wham bam thank you mam/sir type either.

 

We have more time now due to the fact we got some monkey's off our back in the form of real estate investments and building our home. No the children are still young and an elderly parent lives next door, 30ft away but still a connected hallway. We finally settled down and found some people we trust to sit into the wee hours (4-5am) so we finally can go to clubs.

 

If we were to play on the first date it would be if we had chatted with the couple by phone or on-line and got the priliminary stuff and getting to know out of the way first. I would think that's fair would you not ??

[fun4Ds 1,098]

We have more time now due to the fact we got some monkey's off our back in the form of real estate investments and building our home. No the children are still young and an elderly parent lives next door, 30ft away but still a connected hallway. We finally settled down and found some people we trust to sit into the wee hours (4-5am) so we finally can go to clubs.

 

We sure can relate to where your coming from.

 

Its hard to say without knowing your area, but it seems you would want to pursue the sub/social groups through what ever sites your using. More along the lines of a house party specializing in girl on girl action. We we're fortunate to find a group, Pleasures after dark. There were allot of women very accepting of Mrsfun and our limits in the beginning.

 

It takes time to get to know people and you'll just have to do that, take your time.

 

Good luck, hang in there....

[Chicup 41]

If we were to play on the first date it would be if we had chatted with the couple by phone or on-line and got the priliminary stuff and getting to know out of the way first. I would think that's fair would you not ??

 

I think its fair that you do what YOU want and makes you comfortable.

 

I don't think what you are talking about though is really needed or will make a difference.

 

You will learn more talking directly to a couple in 30 minutes than you will with chatting online, cam or not in hours.

 

We have talked to many couples on line which seemed good which were complete 'no' when we met them. Obviously its never worked out the other way because if they were 'no' on chats we didn't meet them but my guess is we most likely missed a few good ones because they were lousy online chatters.

 

I can't say I have a study on it but I'm willing to guess that the longer you wait to play the less chance you will end up playing. Despite the movies, sexual tension is NOT a good thing and will retard not aid in forming a friendship.

[EagerCouple 15]

I can't say I have a study on it but I'm willing to guess that the longer you wait to play the less chance you will end up playing. Despite the movies, sexual tension is NOT a good thing and will retard not aid in forming a friendship.

 

Yes I got to agree first hand on that. Not that when I say chat I say forever even our profile says "we are not looking for internet sex buddies". That is not what we are looking for but we do want to make a bit of contact so it's not a red flag NO.

 

We have had several instances already with couples just dragging it on and on. Makes you wonder if they are real or just in for the "excitement" and nothing else. Sure people do have responsibilities and with parenthood and work sometimes it's tough to schedule a meet between their conflicts and ours and we take that into account. We will do a few e-mails but after that we back off and try to schedule a meet, if after 2 weeks we can't do it then we move on. After trying too much it's just not fun anymore...

[Adam-n-Eve 223]

Wife has said she want's friends and then see what it leads to. I am tending to think that ain't going to happen....it's going to be meet up-hook up-see what it leads to!

 

I have found that swinging is a lot like dating; the patterns can be very similar. Most guys don't want to be friends with a woman in the hopes that he might be able to score at some point. He's in it for the sex. The guy wants to nail the girl, then see if it becomes more.

 

Swinging is (in my opinion) about sex. I know we're in it for the sex, and that's where we're going to put our efforts. If we become friends along the way with the people we meet, that's great -- but we're not out there to make friends, we're out there to have sex with people.

 

I don't know if we're the norm or not, but that's our approach. But, we could be in the minority.

[Adam-n-Eve 223]

We will do a few e-mails but after that we back off and try to schedule a meet, if after 2 weeks we can't do it then we move on. After trying too much it's just not fun anymore...

 

I think you have the right attitude here. Couples that won't meet after a couple of weeks are generally not really interested. Move on.

 

Just to give you an idea of what can be a red flag to us: we just decided to stop talking with a couple because all the emails said "I" and "me" instead of "we." It has us wondering if the mrs. knows what's going on. "I want to chat with you" and "tell me when and where." Creepy. Maybe it's innocent, but we sense a problem.

[EagerCouple 15]

I think you have the right attitude here. Couples that won't meet after a couple of weeks are generally not really interested. Move on.

 

Just to give you an idea of what can be a red flag to us: we just decided to stop talking with a couple because all the emails said "I" and "me" instead of "we." It has us wondering if the mrs. knows what's going on. "I want to chat with you" and "tell me when and where." Creepy. Maybe it's innocent, but we sense a problem.

 

I agree, we got our first one this past weekend. Along with "hey will your wife do me too". Sounded more like some kid...We moved on. First time we had someone say something like that on a 2nd e-mail when the profile says we are not full swap. That's the easy stuff to deal with..but like this all started the others who SEEM real and just never meet up when given a lot of opportunity, that's the root problem and I guess not a problem since it seems common.

[ALilOEverything 901]

My question is how assertive is your wife, and how assertive is the wife of the other couples? I find my most successful experiences is where the other female is as assertive as myself. It seems like this would be even more imperative if g/g is more of the main focus. How much of a participant in the conversations is your wife? If she finds them attractive does she start flirting at all? Is the other female flirting? When your done with your initial meeting how do the goodbyes play out? Do you just shake hands? Give each other hugs? I really like it when the other couple give hugs, it tells me a lot. Hugs tell me they aren't afraid of physical contact. If they seem uncomfortable with a hug then how on earth are they going to be comfortable naked and giving pleasure. Pay close attention to body language, not just their's, but also yours. Don't forget to flirt with each other too, they want to know you're into each other. Make sure you always seem open and inviting.

 

I think conversation topics are important too. It's good to find common ground but once that's established talk about sex, that's why you're there! The more comfortable everyone is about talking about it the more of a chance everyone will be more comfortable with doing it. I always ask how they got into the lifestyle, what started it all. Talk about what excites you about it.

 

The most important thing is BE POSITIVE!!! Positive people are more sexy than negative ones anyday. You'll find your niche, you just need to keep your chin up!

 

Good Luck!

[SheLovesTheSun 40]

I have to agree with the others who say meet other couples at a club or party. I think that it's better that way because you know you'll meet someone face to face.

I think you're handling this the best way possible.

Good luck to you both.

[EagerCouple 15]

My question is how assertive is your wife, and how assertive is the wife of the other couples? I find my most successful experiences is where the other female is as assertive as myself. It seems like this would be even more imperative if g/g is more of the main focus. How much of a participant in the conversations is your wife? If she finds them attractive does she start flirting at all? Is the other female flirting? When your done with your initial meeting how do the goodbyes play out? Do you just shake hands? Give each other hugs? I really like it when the other couple give hugs, it tells me a lot. Hugs tell me they aren't afraid of physical contact. If they seem uncomfortable with a hug then how on earth are they going to be comfortable naked and giving pleasure. Pay close attention to body language, not just their's, but also yours. Don't forget to flirt with each other too, they want to know you're into each other. Make sure you always seem open and inviting.

 

I think conversation topics are important too. It's good to find common ground but once that's established talk about sex, that's why you're there! The more comfortable everyone is about talking about it the more of a chance everyone will be more comfortable with doing it. I always ask how they got into the lifestyle, what started it all. Talk about what excites you about it.

 

The most important thing is BE POSITIVE!!! Positive people are more sexy than negative ones anyday. You'll find your niche, you just need to keep your chin up!

 

Good Luck!

 

LiLo I can see you practice what you preach just from your e-mail. We have noticed many things you have mentioned and you have hit it on the head quite well. Yes Wifee does participate quite a bit after the initial contact that I usually make and our e-mail address goes to both of our PDA's so we often take turns responding to messages. Initially she is VERY shy but after a meet or two she opens up, complements are not a problem for her, she knows howto dish it out. Some will call that flirting but none of the physical flirting (hair/rubbing/grope) even though we are more huggs and quick kiss goodbye type of people, even if we don't know them that well. We have shocked on some occasions "vanilla" friends on some occasions since that's the way we just normally are.

 

Positive we are..the only weakness I can tell is the sexual conversation topics. They do come up from time to time but not always or just the only thing. I am working with her to come out of her shell a bit more on that SOONER, it's an issue between working with her and pushing her which I am not going to do so I walk the line carefully. It's not an issue but it is if others are expecting to get a response to "Hi my name is Nick do you spit or swallow". If that's what it really takes to "score" maybe we are barking up the wrong tree. I am one of the most open people in the world, if a woman asks me ANY question I'll answer without blinking an eye but it's not about me...it's about her. She want's to explore and have different kinds of fun but if it's going to become that much of an effort you lose the fun aspect and I know personally I'd rather not explore if it's not fun.

 

Now that I think about it and see it in writing it's not so much the sex part that needs some work but the shyness part. The swinging part of the formula is a non issue, it's more of a trust in people thing I guess and that comes with practice and time.

[Adam-n-Eve 223]

the only weakness I can tell is the sexual conversation topics. They do come up from time to time but not always or just the only thing. I am working with her to come out of her shell a bit more on that SOONER, it's an issue between working with her and pushing her which I am not going to do so I walk the line carefully. It's not an issue but it is if others are expecting to get a response to "Hi my name is Nick do you spit or swallow". If that's what it really takes to "score" maybe we are barking up the wrong tree.

 

I found your spit or swallow comment an interesting place to take the idea of sexual topics. Hopefully it was just hyperbole. When we engage in sex talk, we go for fun and flirty, not down and dirty.

 

We went out on a first date with a couple last weekend and I was thinking about you while we all talked. We had dinner, which is not something we've really ever done before. However, there was one thing that was fairly consistent: I think we all were of the mind that we were pretty much going to hookup that night -- and only if someone was really off-putting or very different than how they had represented themselves would it not happen.

 

The other guy, who is somewhat new to this, even mentioned the same thing; that there was a seeming (mutual) expectation. I guess my point is that while we never expect another couple is going to want to play the same night we first meet them, they generally do. In the rare case that we couldn't, it's been clear that they wanted to. Interestingly, only in one case where we didn't play that night did we actually hookup with that couple later.

 

Again, I can only go by my own experience, but have you gotten that vibe? Like perhaps they wanted to play that night? It's weird how often we've run into couples that seem really interested in the moment but seem to have no interest later if it doesn't happen right then. Thinking about this, I would say there have been four or five couples that have been really insistent that we get together that night (with that night being our very first contact) and who seem to lose all interest when we tell them we have plans.

 

I'm not suggesting that you hookup with a couple before you're ready, but I'm just thinking that there might be a number of people that are very much fixated on the moment.

 

Related to that: Is there a feeling of expectation on these dates? I don't mean an expectation that you will hookup that night, but an expectation that, barring something unexpected, you will be hooking up eventually. If not, maybe they're coming in with those feelings and when they don't sense it in you, they're thinking you're not all that interested.

 

Maybe give us a little blog action. As you're courting your next couple, tell us about it. Let us know what you're talking about and how things progress. When you go out to meet them, tell us about that too. Give us an idea of how interested you think they are and how you leave things at the end of the date. Keep us clued in until you either give up on them or hook up. Perhaps we can offer a more helpful prospective than we are now.

 

Just a thought.

[EagerCouple 15]

I found your spit or swallow comment an interesting place to take the idea of sexual topics. Hopefully it was just hyperbole. When we engage in sex talk, we go for fun and flirty, not down and dirty.

 

We went out on a first date with a couple last weekend and I was thinking about you while we all talked. We had dinner, which is not something we've really ever done before. However, there was one thing that was fairly consistent: I think we all were of the mind that we were pretty much going to hookup that night -- and only if someone was really off-putting or very different than how they had represented themselves would it not happen.

 

The other guy, who is somewhat new to this, even mentioned the same thing; that there was a seeming (mutual) expectation. I guess my point is that while we never expect another couple is going to want to play the same night we first meet them, they generally do. In the rare case that we couldn't, it's been clear that they wanted to. Interestingly, only in one case where we didn't play that night did we actually hookup with that couple later.

 

Again, I can only go by my own experience, but have you gotten that vibe? Like perhaps they wanted to play that night? It's weird how often we've run into couples that seem really interested in the moment but seem to have no interest later if it doesn't happen right then. Thinking about this, I would say there have been four or five couples that have been really insistent that we get together that night (with that night being our very first contact) and who seem to lose all interest when we tell them we have plans.

 

I'm not suggesting that you hookup with a couple before you're ready, but I'm just thinking that there might be a number of people that are very much fixated on the moment.

 

Related to that: Is there a feeling of expectation on these dates? I don't mean an expectation that you will hookup that night, but an expectation that, barring something unexpected, you will be hooking up eventually. If not, maybe they're coming in with those feelings and when they don't sense it in you, they're thinking you're not all that interested.

 

Maybe give us a little blog action. As you're courting your next couple, tell us about it. Let us know what you're talking about and how things progress. When you go out to meet them, tell us about that too. Give us an idea of how interested you think they are and how you leave things at the end of the date. Keep us clued in until you either give up on them or hook up. Perhaps we can offer a more helpful prospective than we are now.

 

Just a thought.

 

That sounds like a great idea and I really appreciate the offer, it's very nice of you to take such and interest. The next time we "go through the motions" I will bring in a play by play update.

 

The spit or swallow comment was fully "just for impact" I would never talk like that unless told that it's what she/they like. Heck I may joke about it with the wife from time to time but never even in dirty talk. Personally my "weapon of choice" is double talk, it seems to work well when in one on one dealings. I find the demeaning talk a turn off, we even have one "couple" (I sometimes wonder) that talk about taping bitches and such. Would love to see their/his success rate! What I can say the way you took the spit or swallow is the way we took "Hi my name is...my wife really likes the looks of yours will your wife do me just as hard too?" I am very far from a prude..I'll talk to anyone very point blank about sex even if we just met but for an opening line after seeing in the profile we are not full swap and she has no interest in penetration sex from another man I found it to be a bit more forward than acceptable. I had just seen that e-mail and it kind of made me laugh and feel like "what a fool". We may have even "done them" but with an attitude like that she replied "Thanks but no thanks".

 

As far as intent..no never any pre-meditated intent with any of the meets. These were just let's have dinner or drinks so we can meet in person and get to know each other. No phone/text/internet sex prior to the dates just hey here are some pics of us send us yours, nothing real graphic either, sexy tease lingere shots and some boobage. We try to get off the internet/phone thing as quickly as possible now. Hate the connotation of "wasting our time" but it's true...we have seen so many people that have taken our time and taken us nowhere..not even a meet and greet that we would rather just pass and stay at home or go somewhere alone. Too much effort to plan something or get our hopes up high just for a let down from endless leading or fake photos. Way we look at it pictures lie..I know I am a photographer and can make most anyone look good. No hopes or expectations till' we meet, if we meet and we like it and like the conversation then we will plan.

[Adam-n-Eve 223]

That sounds like a great idea and I really appreciate the offer, it's very nice of you to take such and interest. The next time we "go through the motions" I will bring in a play by play update.

 

 

Hey, we just want to see you get laid.

[Menage_a_Trois 182]

We have been in the lifestyle for over 12 years. We are a full swap couple and play somewhat regularly(when time permits). All couples go through ups and downs in meeting and playing with others. We have read through this entire thread and to be perfectly honest the "problem" you are running into is really quite obvious, you are not ready to play when you meet people. You are wanting to get to know them have something click, then go home talk about it, then meet again, make sure you have really gotten to know the person/couple, then perhaps get together and play. No wonder you are not having much luck. Several people have tried politely to tell you that you are dragging things out too much, but no one is being blunt. So here it is..... MOST people that are REALLY interested in playing,(no matter what kind of play fullswap, soft swap, girl/girl, or whatever) are interested in doing JUST that PLAY. MOST couples know within 30 mins to an hour of chatting(face to face) if they are interested in playing. And that is being generous. There is nothing more you are going to learn to make "playing" more fun or special. You are also not going to learn anymore about them that will make you want or not want to play with them. So many couples when they are new to swinging have to justify what they are wanting to do by making it more than it is. They think the people have to be special to them or friends or there has to be a "real" connection". The truth be told if you ever do get to play and if you play very often you will find out one reality. Most people you play with will only be a one time thing. For whatever reason. Some will be repeats, some will become friends, but most will not. Some of the best play experiences we have had are the times when you are driving home after wards and one of you looks at the other and says " what were their names again". It didn't start out that way and it wasn't planned. But we chatted found there was an interest then went and played. I know you said you were "open" to playing on the first meet, but then you act like it is not really a possibility because it just not your real interest. It is very easy to over think all of this. The reality is until you actually play, you will never know nor understand if this is really for you and if you want to continue. No amount of reading, talking, thinking or anything else can tell you that, only an actual experience or two or three or well you get the idea. Now I am NOT saying to do anything you are not ready for, nor am I saying you should not be selective. I am also not telling you to change what you are doing, if it is right for you, then that is what you have to do. But you are getting frustrated and want to know why. You just have to accept that you are definitely in the minority in several aspects of what you are trying to do. Therefore it is going to take MUCH longer and it is going to be very frustrating if you let it.

[Adam-n-Eve 223]

the "problem" you are running into is really quite obvious, you are not ready to play when you meet people.

 

Yeah, I have to agree. That's pretty much what I was trying to say as well. Like I said, just about every time we did not play with someone the same day we met them for the first time, it was obvious that they were disapointed. We almost always play the same day, and now we are always ready to do so even when we meet someone on a weekday night ( the times we didn't play it was a weekday and we were too new to realize that if they were meeting us on a weekday it was because the wanted to play on a weekday). If we didn't play the same day, most of the time it meant we never ended up playing.

 

We always assume a date is a play date and play it based on the other couple's reaction (assuming we're still interested after meeting, of course).

 

Go to your next date with the intention of playing, and I'll bet you have a 90% chance of scoring.

 

Hopefully it goes without saying at this point: no one wants you to do anything you're not ready for. We're just telling you how we think the swinging world works

[EagerCouple 15]

Hey, we just want to see you get laid.

 

LOL!! Well thanks for the well wishes!

 

What do they say "Denial is not just a river in Egypt" ?? Like I have said before, I think you are all right to varying degrees. We will see it's all marketing, just like in sales but here you are selling yourself in some ways. We have expiremented with our profile and have seen interest both increase and decrease. Just like the profile some things may need tweaking so we will keep an open mind to everything in the future and see how things work out.

 

Also no this is not our first time but it's the first time we have tried in years and prior expirience HAD been with friends first FWB later and I guess that is what she was looking for since it worked so well the last time. I am cool with everything (except guy guy stuff!) and very honest and open minded. The wife and I just have to talk a little bit more and either agree or disagree, she has read this thread and also appreciates all the input. It's all up to her now...I think it's time to decide be a bit more forward and just let it all out without shyness or re-think the whole thing and back out fully.

 

We have met a few people that are not fakes, some interested us and some did not. Problem is I agree, if we keep meeting people and not acting quickly I think we will be drying up the "pool" of couples available to us.