Bothered by what happened during play

[little firefly 64]

Well, NDN was able to play Sat. night with a couple (L&T) who was new to the LS club we go to (but not to the lifestyle itself) I'll admit it was kind of difficult for me to watch but I knew that NDN was having a good time and more than most anything I want him to have a good time. There was one thing however that upset me a good bit.

 

It all happened at the LS club. He and I had been chatting that week online with L&T giving them pointers and advice as it was to be their first time at this particular club. Sat. night we met them in person and ended up playing host, showing them around, introducing them to others, etc. Later in the night, they decided they wanted to go to the big playroom where there are several beds, couches, etc so that those with a voyeuristic and/or exhibitionist nature can enjoy watching and being watched.

 

There had been no prior plan of NDN playing at all and so NDN and I found an empty bed and L&T got the bed next to us...Here's the thing that upset me (though I didn't say anything until NDN and I were alone later), NDN and I were really getting into doing our thing and L&T were getting into theirs. NDN was in the middle of giving me some mind blowing oral (The man has mad skills!) when T poked his head over and told NDN that his wife really wanted him (NDN) to go down on her and would he come to their bed to do it and that she was ready. NDN asked me if it was ok, and I said yes, but honestly thought he would finish his play with me first. Next thing i know NDN is over on the next bed with his head between L's legs and I'm laying on the other bed alone feeling really stupid in front of all the people who were gathered in there watching. I don't blame NDN because I knows he's been waiting to play for awhile now and honestly was too excited at the thought to realize he was doing something that would bother me, I do however think it was in poor taste for T to interrupt NDN and I in the middle of our playing to ask him to come play with his wife.....Am I wrong that this bothered me? If I'm off base please tell me as I'm still learning about the rules and manners that go with this LS

[LFM2 1,482]

Your feelings are your feelings. Who can say that they're wrong?

 

However, that said, yes, this happens and is quite common, at least when we play with other couples. Just like NDN, Mr. LFM will sometimes go from me to her without finishing me off and that's really OK. As long as I get a little later. Maybe the difference is that I participate with them as well instead of just watching. I don't feel like I'm missing a thing. NDN asked and you gave an affirmative answer. I think the only thing that would frustrate me is if I was left "frustrated".

 

I'm not sure why you would feel stupid. I personally don't think 'T' was out of line, just as I don't think NDN was out of line. You told him he could and he did. Your dilemma, I think, is that you were assuming he'd finish you off first. Were you wrong? That's up to you. If you and NDN had a rule that he only play after you're satisfied and he broke that... Yeah, I'd be concerned. If you had NO rule regarding that, then I'd think he did OK.

 

JMHO and 2cents worth

[little firefly 64]

I'm not sure why you would feel stupid.

 

It was just from the way I was left laying there alone with everything else going on around me. I guess it was a bit noticeable because a friend of ours walked over and sat with me talking so I wouldn't be sitting there alone, lol

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

You gave NDN permission to leave you and start giving oral to the other lady. If you didn't want him to do that - at that very moment - you should have been specific about when he could leave. For instance, you could say, "After you're finished bringing me to orgasm" or "In a little while, when I say it's okay." Without the exact communication these things can happen. I'm sorry it happened to you.

 

For me, timing is everything when it comes to climaxing. I don't want the play to end if I think I'm near an orgasm, and my husband knows this. I want my husband to stick with me until I've reached completion.

 

I can understand how this situation caused you to feel left out. I've had similar feelings because of playmates actions during play and outside of the playroom. It's very odd when you are surrounded by swingers, your partner or playmate is involved with other people and all of a sudden you are by yourself. If you like feeling invisible it's fine, but when you don't, it sucks.

 

Now that NDN knows how you felt, I feel you both will be able to handle things better in the future.

 

LM

[xxxboxy 139]

I don't want to come off harsh, but that's the path you've chosen to take with this. If you're not playing with others, yet you're there with NDN and he has permission to play with others, you're going to have times when you're alone.

[NDN 28]

I'm sorry I made you feel as you did. You know that you come first to me always. This was something new for us. We will work out timing issues in the future.

[little firefly 64]

I don't want to come off harsh, but that's the path you've chosen to take with this. If you're not playing with others, yet you're there with NDN and he has permission to play with others, you're going to have times when you're alone.

 

I don't have a problem so much with being alone while I watch him play, what I had a problem with was having my play with NDN interrupted by a someone else wanting him to play with them (I wasn't even acknowledged except by NDN asking me if it was ok), and the reason I did say it was ok at that time was that there was a roomful of people watching the goings on (most of whom know I don't play), and I didn't want to be seen as the bitch with issues (a word that I'm frankly sick of hearing when it comes to my choice to be monogamous). I was actually in the middle of having fun with NDN at the time....And yes, believe it or not, just because I don't play doesn't mean I don't like to have fun. I just choose to have my fun with NDN.

[little firefly 64]

I'm sorry I made you feel as you did. You know that you come first to me always. This was something new for us. We will work out timing issues in the future.

 

As I said before, I wasn't upset with you, I mean, I'm the one who told you to go play....What had me bothered and what I'm not thinking some people are really understanding is that we were interrupted while we were playing. Even though we have sex all the time at home, it's just really fun for me when we get to play with each other at the club.

[DigginIt 1,132]

Little Firefly: I totally disagree with xxxboxy. As a couple, couple being the keyword there, you have an obligation to each other - ALWAYS. And as a couple, my wifes feelings are the ONLY thing that matters during play, right, wrong or indifferent. NDN said it was new and he was just excited but I bet it won't happen again.

 

Chalk it up to a learning experience as we are all far from perfect. NDN was apologetic and I believe that he is very sincere in that and I'm sure the next time you say okay, you will be well taken care of first !!

[xxxboxy 139]

My point is that if he's there to play, with permission, and she's only playing with him that there will be times when she's alone. It's going to happen. Now I in no way agree with stopping mid stroke so to speak and moving on to another play partner.

[little firefly 64]

Little Firefly: I totally disagree with xxxboxy. As a couple, couple being the keyword there, you have an obligation to each other - ALWAYS. And as a couple, my wifes feelings are the ONLY thing that matters during play, right, wrong or indifferent. NDN said it was new and he was just excited but I bet it won't happen again.

 

Chalk it up to a learning experience as we are all far from perfect. NDN was apologetic and I believe that he is very sincere in that and I'm sure the next time you say okay, you will be well taken care of first !!

 

Thank you very much for that! Yes, he was more than a little excited about being given the green light to play, LOL, but he felt really bad about it when we talked later that night and I told him about what had me bothered. I did tell him however that I wasn't upset with him at all! He was given an offer to play, he asked me if it was ok, and I said yes. We'll just make sure that next time when I say yes, that I'm ok with him to go at that very moment!!!

[little firefly 64]

Now I in no way agree with stopping mid stroke so to speak and moving on to another play partner.

 

And that was my only problem. If he and I had been finished and he wanted to go play then I would not have had a problem at all with being alone while I watched.

[VegasLee 1,486]

He asked, you approved.

 

Bottom line, you created your own situation and then was not happy with the consequences of your own actions.

 

That is what you need to be thinking about.

[exploringRM 305]

Regarding T asking NDN to come over, perhaps that was just a lapse in judgment or thinking about your specific situation that you don't play with others? I know when we interact with a couple, there's a good bit of switching around, but in that situation it's a trade, not leaving anyone out. Maybe T just didn't think about the fact that you would be left alone (but he should have considered that)

[little firefly 64]

He asked, you approved.

 

Bottom line, you created your own situation and then was not happy with the consequences of your own actions.

 

That is what you need to be thinking about.

 

Again, I said yes because there were other people around us and if I had said no, then I would be seen as having "issues" because most of the people in attendance know that I don't play......The ONLY thing I was unhappy with was my play with NDN being intruded upon like it was. If he and I had finished with our play or if there had been a plan beforehand for him to play with anyone then it wouldn't have been a problem but there wasn't so I was unprepared for anything else......Please everyone try to understand, not being a swinger myself, giving him the ok to play with anyone else is a big deal for me and one that I don't think many other monogamous women (or men) would be willing to do.

[sexcupid 809]

If you were ok with him doing it...you could have made the statement "sure, as soon as we're done here" I mean, he had to know you hadn't gotten there...or as LMF2 said, if he took care of things later. Basically, my SO and I have the understanding that he gets me off and then we see what else is going on around us in the play area. But getting to that point took conversations b/c we would start out naked with each other and other people would realize we were playing/starting the party and would come on in. Well, then I'm left hanging...after a few times of that happening, we came to the current understanding.

 

But this type of thing (trading off/interrupting/etc) happens all the time in public play areas. T probably felt that it was perfectly ok to tap NDN on the shoulder to ask him to take care of his wife because y'all were naked in the playroom...and he knows you don't play but are ok with NDN playing as long as you are there.

 

And for the record...being ok with letting our partners swap is also a big deal for swingers...so please don't think that just because you are trying to let your sweetie carry on with his lifestyle activities while you only partake of him is any more big of a deal than someone who is comfortable actually playing with others.

 

You appear to forget that every person posting here at one time or another has been or currently is monogamous. I'm not trying to be harsh, but we've all been uncomfortable with having our boundaries/comfort zones pushed against in this LS...and sometimes you aren't even aware that a comfort zone exists until it gets barrelled over (such as NDN jumping at the chance to play with someone else even though he was engaged with you at the time). There is no way to prepare for every possible scenario that will be encountered.

 

 

 

Again, I said yes because there were other people around us and if I had said no, then I would be seen as having "issues" because most of the people in attendance know that I don't play......The ONLY thing I was unhappy with was my play with NDN being intruded upon like it was. If he and I had finished with our play or if there had been a plan beforehand for him to play with anyone then it wouldn't have been a problem but there wasn't so I was unprepared for anything else......Please everyone try to understand, not being a swinger myself, giving him the ok to play with anyone else is a big deal for me and one that I don't think many other monogamous women (or men) would be willing to do.

[realcplub2 513]

I don't have a problem so much with being alone while I watch him play, what I had a problem with was having my play with NDN interrupted by a someone else wanting him to play with them (I wasn't even acknowledged except by NDN asking me if it was ok), and the reason I did say it was ok at that time was that there was a roomful of people watching the goings on (most of whom know I don't play), and I didn't want to be seen as the bitch with issues (a word that I'm frankly sick of hearing when it comes to my choice to be monogamous). I was actually in the middle of having fun with NDN at the time....And yes, believe it or not, just because I don't play doesn't mean I don't like to have fun. I just choose to have my fun with NDN.

 

Firefly, it seems to me the other couple was trying to force your hand,, so to speak.. Meaning, that while you and NDN were occupied, on some level, they figured the lack of attention MIGHT make you change your mind regarding interaction.. Were there "looks" your way by the other people? I am sure at some point someone thought it, if it wasnt said.

 

Taking your stand as you have is by all means your prerogative, in reagards to the lifestyle. However, its rather a difficult road to follow.

 

Lets be clear, Monogamy, its an active choice for two, not a choice made by one. Following NDN and playing the watcher, might just lead to more incidents like this.

[Additude 457]

I was going to suggest just this as NDN posted. But read down thru the replies first (which I typically do not do until after I post so that I am not influenced by others) and saw that NDN had already stepped up to the plate and took responsibility and suggested a course of remedy. I was going to suggest that you not be upset but that you just discuss the awkardness of the situation with NDN so he would be more consious about this if it occured in the future.

 

I personally think NDN made a great reply.

 

I'm sorry I made you feel as you did. You know that you come first to me always. This was something new for us. We will work out timing issues in the future.

[little firefly 64]

And for the record...being ok with letting our partners swap is also a big deal for swingers...so please don't think that just because you are trying to let your sweetie carry on with his lifestyle activities while you only partake of him is any more big of a deal than someone who is comfortable actually playing with others.

 

I wasn't trying to say that it wasn't a big deal for swingers to allow their partners to swap. I know that it's got to be a bit hard for anyone, whether swinger or not, to let the person they love most be intimate with anyone else. I wasn't trying to play the martyr here in any way.

[bbarnsworth 2,643]

I wasn't trying to play the martyr here in any way.

 

Of course not! I don't think anyone is suggesting you were.

 

Your first question in this thread was "Am I wrong that this bothered me?" That's a reasonable question to ask, and I think we've all helped give different perspectives on the subject.

 

There's another perspective I'd like to add on. My wife and I discussed this thread last night. We frequently discuss interesting threads from this forum. One of the best reasons is it helps us increase our swinger IQ so to speak. We learn by discussing other unusual situations and can then have a better understanding of how we feel about it.

 

So anyways; what we both kind of concluded was that there was a sort of "she said-he heard" difference in gender perspective situation that occurred. Neither of us would ever want to convey a gender stereotype. But, your husband may have heard things in a pro-forma check box kind of way. You've expressed in abstract it's ok for him to play with others, and said so before this evening. Check. You met another couple, of whom he was attracted to the wife. Check. Both couples began playing, so there's obviously some comfort level among the four of you. Check. He is invited by the other couple to play with the wife of the other couple. Check. He asks you if it's ok to go ahead and do so, and gets agreement. Check. He goes and plays with the other couple's wife.

 

All hell breaks loose and the guy is left bewildered wondering "what the hell did I do wrong?"

 

Meanwhile, from your perspective maybe; it's yes, you've given permission in abstract. Yes, this couple is nice. Wow, I'm really enjoying what my husband is doing to me, and it's cool other people are watching me...damn his tongue feels good! What? The other couple wants my husband? Oh that's ok, he won't rush over there just now, not just now, please not just now. WHAT? He's going to her NOW? Leaving me hanging? Oh I don't want to look like the cold bitch from hell, but why wouldn't he finish with me first? Damn it, now she's getting what I wanted and I'm left high and dry all alone on this bed. Why didn't he want to stay here with me? Didn't he understand I needed him right then? Couldn't he have finished with me first? Oh I'm steamed and hurt!

 

None of which internal self-monologue was heard by your unsuspecting husband.

 

One of the worst things one person can do to another is fail to live up to the other's expectations of them. The hard part is the expectations are rarely vocalized.

 

The outcome of all of this?

 

Neither of you is wrong. Neither of you is right. You have every right to feel as you do. Your husband has every right to feel as he does. The important thing is that it seems you're both willing and able to talk about it, and make it better for next time.

[SecretAsianMan 348]

Well... I'm just glad that y'all have managed to talk it through & will know better for next time. All in all... it was a very small stumble (all things considered).

[NCfuncouple98 367]

Again, I said yes because there were other people around us and if I had said no, then I would be seen as having "issues" because most of the people in attendance know that I don't play

 

Everyone else has responded to the rest of your post, and I agree with them, but I did want to address this one point.

 

Please don't ever let yourself feel pressured into saying yes, regardless of how you would be "seen". You are never too far along in a situation to say no. You have every right to say no at any point, whether it's a public play room or not, if you are uncomfortable. Trust me if you say no, they'll just move on to someone else.

 

This was new for both of you, and I'm sure you've talked a lot since, and learned a lot from this experience. We all have learned from our experiences. There's no rule book here, so make it up as you go and just keep talking.

 

Mrs NC

[NDN 28]

I've been reading through the posts and some of them have really bothered me. Others have stated that she brought what happened upon herself or that she basically asked for it. I want it stated clearly that she did nothing at all wrong. The other couple and I were the ones to blame here not her.

 

Nothing had even been mentioned by either of the other couple that they had an interest in me playing with them that night so when T tapped me on the shoulder asking me to join them, firefly and I were both taken by surprise. When I asked her if it was ok and she said yes (she was kind of put on the spot) I should have told T that I would love to but that I would like to finish playing with my own spouse first. I always tell her that she comes first with me no matter what and in this situation I didn't do that. I had an invite to play with someone else and I pretty much just left her hanging which was wrong. It's made me really upset to see that she's been pretty much bashed on here because she doesn't play. We sought this site out specifically so that we could get advice as situations arise and that others might could help her feel more comfortable with my LS, but she seems to be looked down upon as if she's in the wrong for how she feels. This of course doesn't apply to all the posts and she and I do appreciate all those who have at least some understanding of her feelings

 

And for the record...being ok with letting our partners swap is also a big deal for swingers...so please don't think that just because you are trying to let your sweetie carry on with his lifestyle activities while you only partake of him is any more big of a deal than someone who is comfortable actually playing with others.

 

You appear to forget that every person posting here at one time or another has been or currently is monogamous. I'm not trying to be harsh, but we've all been uncomfortable with having our boundaries/comfort zones pushed against in this LS...and sometimes you aren't even aware that a comfort zone exists until it gets barrelled over (such as NDN jumping at the chance to play with someone else even though he was engaged with you at the time). There is no way to prepare for every possible scenario that will be encountered.

 

I don't agree with this at all. Yes it is a big deal for swingers to let their mates play with others (I know this because I used to be half of a full swap couple), but it's a much bigger deal for someone who isn't in and has no interest to be in the LS at all to let their SO play. Her comfort zone is pushed way beyond that of couples in which both play. In those relationships both are having a good time with others and can pretty much disassociate themselves from what their mate is doing. With her however, she's totally left out, by her own choice yes, but she's not getting to have fun while I play. I think this speaks volumes about her character and about her love for me.......

[VegasLee 1,486]

I've been reading through the posts and some of them have really bothered me. Others have stated that she brought what happened upon herself or that she basically asked for it. I want it stated clearly that she did nothing at all wrong. The other couple and I were the ones to blame here not her.

 

 

I have reread most of the posts. I don't see anyone saying anyone was "wrong" or to blame.

 

The couple asked you to play, you asked permission, she said yes.

 

She was not happy with the results of her saying yes at that time.

 

There is no laying blame here.

 

Yes, I say she did what she did and was not happy with the results but SHE did say yes when you asked permission.

 

That does not make the other couple wrong, you wrong or her wrong. That is just the facts. Sugar coat it any way you want but that is still the facts.

 

She was not happy with the decision that she made after it was made and later she explained she made that decision for the WRONG reasons. Because she was concerned about what OTHERS where going to think of her.

 

You state you are a swinger and have been in the past. If that is the case then you know you don't make decisions in this Lifestyle because of what OTHERS are going to think of you or that decision will always come back to bite you in the butt as it has here.

 

 

I also have not seen an single post putting her down or looking down on her because she does not play. Seems you guys are more concerned about what people think of her for her not playing then the "swingers" are.

 

You don't have to agree with what I think or anyone else here thinks, you guys came here asking and you got answers, even if they where not the ones you wanted to hear.

[Expulsion 40]

Everyone else has responded to the rest of your post, and I agree with them, but I did want to address this one point.

 

Please don't ever let yourself feel pressured into saying yes, regardless of how you would be "seen". You are never too far along in a situation to say no. You have every right to say no at any point, whether it's a public play room or not, if you are uncomfortable. Trust me if you say no, they'll just move on to someone else.

 

This was new for both of you, and I'm sure you've talked a lot since, and learned a lot from this experience. We all have learned from our experiences. There's no rule book here, so make it up as you go and just keep talking.

 

Mrs NC

 

 

This was my favorite response. I agree with it completely. I think the only way this lifestyle really works is through honest communication and saying when things bother you. You shouldn't let anyone else make you feel like you should be doing something you don't want to do. That just makes the whole situation harder to deal with. You two seem like you love and care about each other a lot, and you seem to have dealt with it between yourselves. Good luck.

[DigginIt 1,132]

I've been reading through the posts and some of them have really bothered me.

 

I personally felt that some of these responses were a little harsh compared to what I normally see on these boards. Most of the people that have posted on this topic usually have very good, thoughtful and sincere posts. I want to think that they were just a little more blunt than usual and as a result, no empathy came through for Little Firefly's emotional concerns.

 

In many cases, the message seemed to be 'your in the lifestyle so deal with it' and I KNOW THAT IS NOT WHAT YOU ALL MEANT !!! (had to say that before I get my ass chewed, lol) but reading many of these posts they do sound callous.

 

It's easy for us to sit back at a distance and pick apart something but in the heat of the moment, when the emotions are elevated, you don't always say or do the right thing. I think posts could have been a little more supportive and would have went a lot further with helping this couple out in their adventures into the lifestyle.

 

I think little firefly was looking for someone to agree with her that NDN was a little to anxious and jumped so fast she was semi-startled/shocked, lol. NDN did just that.

[TNT 1,155]

 

There had been no prior plan of NDN playing at all and so NDN and I found an empty bed and L&T got the bed next to us...Here's the thing that upset me (though I didn't say anything until NDN and I were alone later)

 

Good for you. It's always best to wait until you're alone before discussing anything that might have bothered either one of you.

 

I do however think it was in poor taste for T to interrupt NDN and I in the middle of our playing to ask him to come play with his wife.....Am I wrong that this bothered me?

 

Wrong that it bothered you? No, we can't help how we feel. Was it poor taste/bad manners...yes, perhaps... but, it happens. You were in a swinger's club where people go to have sex, ask for sex and be asked for sex from others who are not their SO. How you answer and deal with it falls totally on your head, not the head of those who proposition you or your SO. You cannot control what other people say or how they act. You can only control how you react to it.

 

If you had wanted NDN to wait until he had finished with you, you should have said so. NEVER assume anyone can read your mind and that includes your SO. It happened, the two of you discussed it and now there's nothing left to do but trust that it won't happen again.

 

You two are in a fairly unique situation (he plays, you don't). If you continued to take this journey you are going to be faced with many different scenarios like this one. Keeping the lines of communication open between the two of you is the only way you will have a chance of coming out on top.

 

I don't agree with this at all. Yes it is a big deal for swingers to let their mates play with others (I know this because I used to be half of a full swap couple), but it's a much bigger deal for someone who isn't in and has no interest to be in the LS at all to let their SO play. Her comfort zone is pushed way beyond that of couples in which both play. In those relationships both are having a good time with others and can pretty much disassociate themselves from what their mate is doing. With her however, she's totally left out, by her own choice yes, but she's not getting to have fun while I play. I think this speaks volumes about her character and about her love for me.......

 

I wanted to comment on the above, especially the part I bolded.

 

Due to your unique situation, things will be doubly hard for you two in swinging...it can work but, one of the keys to making it work is that she IS having as much fun as you. That is no different than any other swinging relationship...the fun factor has to be pretty much equal for both parties. If it's not, eventually resentment will creep in and small, tiny, insignificant problems will become big problems. If firefly isn't having just as much fun watching you play with others (whether she ever participates or not) as you are having playing with others, things will eventually fall apart.

 

The playing aspect of swinging doesn't have to be equal but the fun and enjoyment of it has to be pretty damn close to equal to be successful.

 

 

Teresa

[bbarnsworth 2,643]

It's made me really upset to see that she's been pretty much bashed on here because she doesn't play. We sought this site out specifically so that we could get advice as situations arise and that others might could help her feel more comfortable with my LS, but she seems to be looked down upon as if she's in the wrong for how she feels. This of course doesn't apply to all the posts and she and I do appreciate all those who have at least some understanding of her feelings.

 

I want to say most emphatically there is nothing at all wrong, improper, out of line, repulsive or otherwise unacceptable about Firefly's choice not to play. Anyone who has a problem with that is WAY out of line.

 

Couples where one partner plays and the other doesn't most emphatically do have a place in the lifestyle. As I think I mentioned before in another thread, a couple with your scenario will have fewer opportunities to play. That doesn't mean you can't play, or that anyone should find fault for you for your desires as a couple. From everything I've read, neither of you is deceiving anyone about your intentions and limits. It's up to other couples to decide if that's what they want. If not, they can choose to walk away. But, if they don't want what you have to offer, there's no call for them being upset with either of you.

 

I think it is absolutely wonderful that Firefly wants you to play, and that she's chosen to remain monogamous with you. There's nothing wrong with that, and I'm very happy for you both.

[lizandtom 512]

Little Firefly, you are entitled to a good orgasm just like the people over on the next bed. Next time stand your ground and simply just say, "I'm really close, can you wait for him for another few minutes?" It will probably get a big laugh from the gallery, and kudos to you for communicating very effectively.

[prometheius 137]

I've been reading through the posts and some of them have really bothered me. Others have stated that she brought what happened upon herself or that she basically asked for it.

 

NDN, I think that some of the posts here may have implied that little firefly brought what happened upon herself, but I don't think anybody has said that she asked for it. In the OP, she stated what took place, but did not speak about what she was thinking as it was all happening. It leaves the reader with the feeling that she didn't communicate just what it was that she wanted or expected to happen, so she didn't get the desired results. The other posters have only pointed out what has happened in this cause and effect situation.

 

 

It's made me really upset to see that she's been pretty much bashed on here because she doesn't play.

 

As many times as I've read this entire thread, I can't find any bashing going on at all. If a person reads the responses without emotional attatchment they will find it much easier to understand the advice being given and take no offense (as it was intended).

 

 

We sought this site out specifically so that we could get advice as situations arise and that others might could help her feel more comfortable with my LS, but she seems to be looked down upon as if she's in the wrong for how she feels. This of course doesn't apply to all the posts and she and I do appreciate all those who have at least some understanding of her feelings

 

You came to the right place to get advice in these matters. This is a well run forum with a great group of people that have many years of experience with swinging. Believe me when I tell you that no one is looking down on her for how she feels. We all may not understand how she feels, but we are trying.

 

(I know this because I used to be half of a full swap couple), ...

 

If you have prior experience as half of a full swap couple, a succesful full swap couple, then you already know it is wise not to be "thin skinned" about anything pertaining to the lifestyle. I say this because the two of you have come here for honest, open minded advice about your situation. The responses you get may be blunt, they may not be what you want to hear, but they will be honest and from the heart of experience. The best advice you can get, is that which is not candy coated. Heed it, and it will serve you well.

Best wishes

[smoothwaitress 15]

Be honest about what you want. The earlie post was dead on you gave permission. Don't be afraid to speak your mind.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Again, I said yes because there were other people around us and if I had said no, then I would be seen as having "issues" because most of the people in attendance know that I don't play......The ONLY thing I was unhappy with was my play with NDN being intruded upon like it was. If he and I had finished with our play or if there had been a plan beforehand for him to play with anyone then it wouldn't have been a problem but there wasn't so I was unprepared for anything else......Please everyone try to understand, not being a swinger myself, giving him the ok to play with anyone else is a big deal for me and one that I don't think many other monogamous women (or men) would be willing to do.

 

When guys are getting busy they are not thinking clearly (nearly are we). This means that their ability to mind read (which is pretty low on their skill set to begin with) is even worse than normal, meaning that you have to be VERY CLEAR with what you mean. Whether it's stating your limits are what you are allowing it is always up to the individual to make clear what they are saying and make sure the other people involve understand. If this occurs again the best answer is "sure, when you are done with me". That said, you weren't really (from what I can tell) that cool with him playing. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't think your relationship has a lot of chance of survival and you are only making things worse on yourself by going and being there to watch him do what you aren't comfortable with. Heck, I AM A SWINGER and I'd be pissed if that happened, if for some reason I wasn't playing that night and a couple knew that and asked my guy to come over and join them in the middle of the two of us playing together. That's just RUDE, IMO. For that reason alone I'd have had no issue with saying "no". People there know you don't swing... so why worry about whether or not they think you have issues... they probably do. To sum it up, yes you should be bothered, but not by his response (by what the couple did and your own response). NDN responded exactly how I'd expect any guy to respond in the same situation.

 

I personally felt that some of these responses were a little harsh compared to what I normally see on these boards. Most of the people that have posted on this topic usually have very good, thoughtful and sincere posts. I want to think that they were just a little more blunt than usual and as a result, no empathy came through for Little Firefly's emotional concerns.

 

In many cases, the message seemed to be 'your in the lifestyle so deal with it' and I KNOW THAT IS NOT WHAT YOU ALL MEANT !!! (had to say that before I get my ass chewed, lol) but reading many of these posts they do sound callous.

 

I don't think it's a "Your in the lifestyle so deal with it" attitude... I think (at least from me, and I'm sure the first half of this post came off as pretty harsh) it's a "you're not in the lifestyle, but your boyfriend is and you are trying to pretend you are ok with it". I have a lot of empathy for little firefly and I am very concerned that she is doing great emotional damage to herself with this relationship. I don't know her, I only know what they've posted here, but even if I did know her I'd tell her the same thing to her face. It's not about being harsh, it's about presenting reality (something it seems these two are adamant to avoid).

[DigginIt 1,132]

I have a lot of empathy for little firefly and I am very concerned that she is doing great emotional damage to herself with this relationship. I don't know her, I only know what they've posted here, but even if I did know her I'd tell her the same thing to her face. It's not about being harsh, it's about presenting reality (something it seems these two are adamant to avoid).

 

I can completely understand that and I guess my nature is to really look, not at what the post is saying sometimes but what I feel the emotions are that the writer is trying to elicit from what they are writing. In this case, very, very early, before there were several other revelations brought out into the open, she seemed to be looking for a sympathetic ear to say 'we understand why you were upset' and the posts seemed to focus on the 'well, you said it was okay' which is a guy excuse I use with my wife and I know how useless of a statement that is as soon as I say it.

 

I think you better qualified the 'why' behind your feedback and it comes across more of a concerned advocate than a lecture which many of the others had not done as effectively.

 

Always enjoy your insight Julie.

[little firefly 64]

If this occurs again the best answer is "sure, when you are done with me". That said, you weren't really (from what I can tell) that cool with him playing.

 

Honestly, If it had been something that I'd been prepared for beforehand then I would have been ok with it. The other couple had not even expressed any kind of interest the times that we sat and talked with them throughout the night.

 

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't think your relationship has a lot of chance of survival and you are only making things worse on yourself by going and being there to watch him do what you aren't comfortable with.

 

That is why NDN has told me that if it does get to be too much for me then he'll quit swinging all together. Swinging for him is a recreation, it's not his life. His life is with me and the home we've made together. I'm actually the one who's told him I don't want him to just give it up. I honestly want to work on being ok with it because it's so important to me to not try to change him or ask him to give up something he enjoys.

 

 

 

 

Heck, I AM A SWINGER and I'd be pissed if that happened, if for some reason I wasn't playing that night and a couple knew that and asked my guy to come over and join them in the middle of the two of us playing together. That's just RUDE, IMO.

 

I'm glad at least to know I wasn't off base in being upset about it.

 

 

People there know you don't swing... so why worry about whether or not they think you have issues... they probably do.

 

I'm actually getting past giving a damn whether or not anyone else thinks I have issues. I don't see them as issues at all (And I'm sick to death of that word ). I just see it it as having a different idea about what relationships and sex should be about. Being told (by a long time LS couple) that I'm a close minded prude who needs to lighten up and get over my issue with sexual openness is the straw that broke that camels back. Heck, NDN and I practice a BDSM lifestyle and for me to allow my body to be put through some of the things it has takes a VERY open mind. I don't judge anyone in the swinger LS for their choice to share their SO and to be shared with others and I think I deserve that same respect without being called names. Just because I don't see things the same as those in the LS doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with me.

 

I have a lot of empathy for little firefly and I am very concerned that she is doing great emotional damage to herself with this relationship.

 

I do appreciate the ones on here who have had that concern. It has been emotionally tiring trying to find a balance with this but I'm going to keep working on it. All I do know for sure is that other than his involvement in swinging NDN is everything I've wanted from a life partner. I was married 15 years and single for nearly 5 after my divorce before I found him. I'm not going to let this one problem be what causes the end of us. If there is a way to find middle ground then together we'll find it. If not then we'll find a recreation that we can enjoy together.

 

Thanks everyone

[socolais 696]

It seems to me that you have your head screwed on about as straight as anyone here. You guys are in a unique situation and it's likely to take a few iterations of the old trial and error before everything gets figured out. There are going to be a few bumps in the road when you have to blaze your own trail. I like that you're dedicated to finding a workable solution and I think yall will have an interesting relationship when everything smooths out.

[mrfunfan 25]

FIREFLY, thank you for sharing your experience. If you play or not that doesn't matter! You apparently are having sex in front of others which is more then most of the population...except europe! LOL

 

Anyway, I've watched this thread and thought it would be a mute point by now...lesson learned...communication is important and the only thing you can do is remember us guys don't read minds too well. We like the KISS principle...you know...Keep It Simple & Sexual and we get it LOL

 

Ok, but seriously, I have so much respect for girls that are in the lifestyle to please their man because you have to deal with more emotions then we will ever imagine. Your man sounds like a great guy and would never intentionally want to make you feel that way.

 

I'm sure you are both just going to get closer because you opened up to him and want to make him happy