Our vanilla friends not so vanilla or are we just imagining it?

[Newpants 21]

Hello, we hope you can offer us some wisdom. We have been in the lifestyle a little while and have had a few experiences with couples. We have some vanilla friends that we were very close to over ten years ago when we were still vanillas. We had a very sexually open relationship with them in that we often talked openly about sex and our sex lives and we have vacationed with them and had sex with our own partners separated only by a thin wall so we could all hear what was going on etc but we never actually had any sexual contact with them. I also need to add that their fem half was very sexually open and horny all the time, i.e. she was not shy or prudish.

 

Anyway, we all drifted apart and got busy raising our families, building our careers and they moved away and live several hours away and we have not seen them for several years and only exchange an occasional Christmas card or chain letter email.

 

Out of the blue a few weeks ago the male half called us and said they were coming to town to see family over the holidays and they wanted to get together with us. That is not strange or remarkable. What is remarkable is how much he was stressing that they wanted to get rid of kids and have an "adult night". He said adult night, adult entertainment and adult fun over and over. He also said they wanted to get a single hotel room and the 4 of us spend the night together.

 

My alarm bells started going off and I tried to push things a little bit to get a feel for what he was getting at so I suggested getting a whirlpool suite and a few bottles of champagne and having a hell of time and he didn't even flinch or try to make any disclaimers or boundaries etc.

 

Now we are wondering if during our separation that perhaps they may have gone down a similar path as us and are now swingers also or at least open to the idea of some kind of sexual exploration with us. Are we seeing legitimate signs or do we have a distorted view of reality since we are in the lifestyle and are just seeing signs we want to see?

 

Any advice on how we should proceed from here? Is there a way we can feel them out a little bit more and find out what they are thinking without outing ourselves in case we are misreading things?

[xxxboxy 139]

On this one, I'd just go with the flow. If they're swingers they'll think that they're seducing their vanilla friends.

[Swing*8701 887]

Susan here: First, if they're Swingers who think seducing 'vanilla' friends is a good idea, I'd run. That being said, it seems like you need to have some 'mantalk' with your old buddy and make certain that he explains himself. And, should you get to the fact that they Swing, you can say you do too and it seems like a fun night.

 

Blurring everything with 'what ifs' and innuendo never works. In fact it creates expectations that are sure to be traps for disaster.

[Newpants 21]

Thanks XXX and Edison. Actually our plan at this point is for the fem halves to have some 'girltalk' instead because however the ladies decide to go is how it will be whether we are all vanilla or all swingers anyway.

 

I do need to point out that we are not going to try and seduce them or make any first moves. I am mainly wanting to know if we are really seeing signs here or if we are offbase in thinking there may be something brewing here.

 

If they do have something in mind we want to be prepared to deal with that appropriately and if they do not have anything in mind we want to behave ourselves and not do anything out of line.

 

Frankly if they are swingers and proposition us, depending on the mood at the time we may take them up on it and if they are vanillas that are just using the wrong words with the wrong people we want to keep things on the up and up.

 

I don't have any proof or evidence but my gut is telling me they are fledgling newbies and are wanting to take some of their first steps with some old friends that they trust and are comfortable with. In the past we were pretty sexual around each other but just never had anything physical between us.

 

At this point we don't care whether we have a vanilla night with some old friends or have a roll in the hay, we just want to know if we are seeing legitimate signs or if we are just imagining it.

[N8ture Girl 318]

What is remarkable is how much he was stressing that they wanted to get rid of kids and have an "adult night". He said adult night, adult entertainment and adult fun over and over.

 

Honestly they could be wanting a night out away from the kids. And they just happen to be very excited about it. Maybe they have not had a night out away from the kids in a long time. Who knows really?

 

Since you are really eager to get in the LS, you may be seeing more than there is. Maybe not. The only way to know is ask them! You dont have to out yourself by asking them if they are swingers. I would want to know their intentions before they got there.

 

My $ .02

[ratimadan 75]

Go with the flow without any expectations and see what happens. Perhaps you will end up playing, swapping mates and fucking each other's spouse for good measure. If you do not play and full swap mates, hopefully you will have had a great time with the couple short of sexual intercourse.

[ncmd_couple 597]

Another suggestion to possibly find out is to search the swinger's search sites for their area and look to see if they have a profile on a site such as SLS. Who knows, they might have seen your profile if you have one.

 

Probably they are talking about an adult night with no kids!

 

S

[lizandtom 512]

At this point we don't care whether we have a vanilla night with some old friends or have a roll in the hay, we just want to know if we are seeing legitimate signs or if we are just imagining it.

 

Newpants, this has all the makings of a great time. Like your plan says, just go out with an open mind with no expectations of more than a fun time with old friends.

 

Here's the pitfall for you two to be mindful of; since you are old friends, you and the other couple may feel the need to not expose your lifestyle because of undue pressure if in fact the other couple is vanilla, i.e. a prim and proper niceness where you wouldn't want to come off as pressuring by divulging your secret lifestyle, and vice versa. Mind you if the girls talk then enough may be uncovered beforehand. If not, then your one leg up on this whole situation is that you'all have talked sex openly before, so no doubt sex talk will come up when you meet.

 

All you need to do to break the ice is simply say that you have experimented a little with the swinging lifestyle and then look very carefully at their immediate reaction for intrigue or condemnation. You don't have to divulge anything more until you see how receptive they are to that. I think that it will either blossom into something more right then and there, but if they are completely vanilla and it's to go no further then you can simply explain that your experimentation was something simple like a visit to a swing club you have heard about, although you decided 'it wasn't for you and nothing happened.'

 

Good luck and report back; would love to hear how it went.

[SecretAsianMan 348]

I'd follow the suggestions of the ones who've already answered before me... "go with the flow"

 

If this is a couple that y'all are interested in sharing an experience with ... then be prepared for it (bring condoms & stuff just in case). But just enjoy yourselves and have a good time - even if NOTHING happens. They're your old friends. Treat them as such and give them the respect & communication that they deserve.

[DigginIt 1,132]

hmmm. I would tend to agree with the earlier post that they want to get out for some 'no kids involved' kind of fun. Getting the hotel room might simply be that they want to split the cost with you so they can get really drunk and crazy and not have to drive home and they are hoping you will split it with them.

 

There are a few posts across this board where I have read to 'beware' when you get in the lifestyle you start to over analyze simple flirtation from your vanilla friends. People have actually lost friendships because they misread those simple flirtatious gestures as more than what they were which was just the other couple having fun.

 

I do agree with the theme of 'go with the flow' but I would let them make any obvious gestures or advances before you just started hitting on your buddies wife. Just my thoughts. All of my buddies are all military or ex-military and they would probably kick my ass if I tried to pick up their woman, lol.

 

If on the other hand, they are hoping to have a great night of shagging with you two then make sure you stop by and let us know

[realcplub2 513]

Another suggestion to possibly find out is to search the swinger's search sites for their area and look to see if they have a profile on a site such as Swing Lifestyle. Who knows, they might have seen your profile if you have one.

 

Probably they are talking about an adult night with no kids!

 

S

 

We have no idea what sites you belong to, NEWPANTS, so, do a simple search on any you belong to and see... Include in the paramaiters, non paying members within the time frame of at least 6 months before you got the first call, informing you they were headed to town to see "family" as well as you..

 

Narrow your results by the age range, Hair color.. hieght.. get as detailed as you can, and see what happens..

 

If nothing comes back, then, as well as the women having girl talk.. get a free moment and put the simple question to your buddy..

 

"what did you have in mind for this ADULT night?"

 

you arent outting yourselves, and if they are either guessing, or hoping then he should spill it

[DigginIt 1,132]

Here is a thought...

 

Maybe they did a radius search and found you?

[SecretAsianMan 348]

Yeah ... if truly in doubt and you're dying to know for sure - just flat out ask them what they mean by "adult night"

[WonderWhat 166]

If they already are seasoned swingers, then by all means play with them if the mood and situation permits.

 

If they're newbies, let them marinade before cooking.

 

If they're raging vanillas trying to seduce the friends they've always had the hots for, offer to mentor them without sex involved, and tell them that once they're experienced and have their boundaries well explored, that the offer is open for reconsideration in the future.

 

In other words, don't rush out and get a reservation. First have a nice dinner and drinks where you can talk, all four of you, during the first days of their stay.

 

If things work out as in option #1, then get a room for the next to last of their nights in town. Don't do it on their last night, considering your friendship, things might need to be discussed the next day without the pressure of having to leave.

 

Option #2 would mean that you can keep in touch, talk and email about it, but that you don't want to endanger the friendship by having sex with them until they're really clear about their swingerness.

 

Option #3 is option #2 on steroids.

[Additude 457]

It sounds like fun. For sure, a night away from the trials and tribulations of rountine family tasks....Do it, have fun and see where it goes.

 

To be honest, it is exactly what you think it is, or at least no less than it was before.

 

Isn't that obvious?

[The Fuse 1,012]

Yeah ... if truly in doubt and you're dying to know for sure - just flat out ask them what they mean by "adult night"

 

Well put. Why not just ask them? You might get a direct answer or at least some honest discussion. Maybe it would save you some of the wondering.

[N8ture Girl 318]

Lots of different ideas and thoughts from everyone. Like many including myself, just asking would save alot of wondering.

 

Looking forward to finding out what there true intentions are. Please be sure let us know. Its like watching a tv show's season finale, don't leave us hanging!

[lv2prty 17]

to me, if he said get a room for 4. this implies that more will happen than just drinks. i would call the other female, and ask her if you should bring PJ's to sleep in or sexy lingerie. if she says sexy lingerie then you have your answer.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Since from the sounds of it you guys aren't REAL close these days like you were in the past, you really have nothing to lose. If you are worried about things going bad, you might want to just outright ask (as others have suggested) beforehand. Otherwise you can try just playing it by ear. Your thoughts on having the girls discuss it is a good one as well... but I wouldn't wait till you are in the hotel room to have that discussion. If they really didn't intend it that way, you could leave the rest of the evening (after that conversation) feeling very awkward.

[Newpants 21]

Thanks everyone for your ideas and suggestions. We really aren't trying to overthink it and we are trying to not let our imaginations get too carried away.

 

I need to address a few of the points that were brought up.

 

Neither they nor we really drink so the purpose of the room is not so people can tie one on and have a place to crash.

 

We have done a haphazard search of the sites in there area with nothing that would indicate they were on a swinger site and our profile does not have any identifying features of us that they could recognize either.

 

We do have full intentions of just "go with the flow", we just want to know which way that "flow" is before we are neck deep in it:lol:

 

We have always considered our vanilla friends, neighbors, coworkers etc completely off limits however we really no longer consider these people our close friends anymore as they now live several hours away and we really haven't kept in touch at all for several years.

 

Bottom line is we are fine with just having a completely vanilla evening with them and getting away from the kids and getting caught up. There were just a few things he said that set off our "SWINGDAR". My purpose in writing was to see if our swingdar was going off for a valid reason or we are seeing things that really aren't there.

 

Our plan at this point is for our fem and their fem to get in contact with each other and ask her exactly what they are wanting to do for the evening and see if she says some things that set off the swingdar as well.

 

We'll let you know either way how that goes.

 

Thanks again!

[xxxboxy 139]

Keep us posted! Even if it's nothing more than friends getting together and getting caught back up with each other. We all seem to like living vicariously through others in addition to our own adventures...I know that Mrsxxxboxy and I do...

[ncmd_couple 597]

Newpants,

 

As we don't know a whole lot about you, or how experienced you are, there are a lot of guesses being made. Your "Swingdar," or "Playdar" as it is called here, will blip pretty often after you get to be an experienced swinger. Mine blips all the time. The trick is to be patient.

 

S

[toofartoosee 31]

Hi there pants; As I read, I think that once into the lifestyle you are now on a totally different state of being for the Nillas. If your confident, and thinking about it, then you will make connections you never did. You now have Playdar, and it going to ping wether you want it to or not, so keep that in mind. You see what you want to see. Like childern we see things in shadow shapes that just are not there. For instance We are freindly with a couple, and we were out, and she started joking about me being the other boy freind, and being flerty. I looked over at her and said. " have you, and your guy started experimenting". Well she did a double take, and didn't flert the rest of the night...At all...Which I thought was the funnest thing. Looking at from a swingers point of view at the Nilla's. I have also notice that when people feel safe they will be more flertatious, because inside they now nothing will come of it, it's an inoccent game, with friends.

Keep in mind, that when radar was first made birds were cooked in mid-air mistakenly because the power was turned up so high.

good luck 2C

[fun4Ds 1,098]

I was going to suggest taking condoms but realized you probably were already headed out the door by then.

 

Were you talking about this weekend to see your friends again ?

 

If so, how did it go with them ?

[norcalcouple 15]

Any updates

[Ed & Bunny 160]

Any updates

 

Good, I am not the only one wondering.

[oncewere 84]

I like the idea of asking about pajamas. Another idea is asking whether you should bring bathing suits for the hot tub.

 

The best idea, though, is to get the women talking. They will get to the bottom of things.

[Newpants 21]

I just wanted to give you an update to our evening out with our vanilla friends.

 

Here's the Reader's Digest version and I'll cut to the chase, we did not have any kind of sex with them but it ended up leaving us with more questions than answers.

 

About a week before we got together the male half called me to make arraingements and it was a completely different conversation than the time before. He did not say a single word that set off any kind of playdar and it was like any other conversation between vanilla friends. He said that they had canceled their hotel reservation and would be staying with family and that they wanted to have dinner and that was all he really said.

 

We figured we had let a few mispoken words let our imaginations get the best of us and we were seeing signs that weren't there and made plans for a regular vanilla outing.

 

The evening rolled around and we went out for dinner and were getting caught up. The conversations often were quite sexual and flirty at times and then at the end of dinner our female freind said she had never been to a strip club before and wanted to go. both she and my wife were all over it but the other male and I were hesitant and not really interested (shouldn't that have been the other way around?) our female friend stated she had never had a lapdance or touched another woman before and wanted to try it out.

 

We ended up going to a strip club and while there I ran into one of the dancers that I had met at a swinger club before and I tipped her to give our female friend a lapdance.

 

After a while the dancer (who was only wearing a g-string and heels) came over and climbed into our fem friends lap and proceeded to give her a lapdance and then lifted up our friends shirt and popped her boobs out of her bra and titty-rubbed on her and they each felt up each other's boobs and bodies for a minute or so.

 

After that she was blown away and talked about that all night and kept asking her husband if that turned him on and kept asked him if he'd like a 3-some some day. He was actually pretty much a stick-in-the-mud and just sat there and grumbled all evening and was pretty much just a buzz-kill about the whole thing:(.

 

the evening ended and we all said our good byes and "lets get together again soon"s and that was that.

 

Where things got interesting was over the next couple days I got a few emails from the other fem half and she stated how much fun they had and how much they needed to get out for some fun and how much they wanted to get together and have more "adult fun" again. She then went on thanking me for flirting with her and complimenting her and that it was the first time she had felt sexy and attractive in 10 years. Then she went on to say that the the next time we get together she wants to get a hotel room for the 4 of us and order some XXX movies and have an adult night at the hotel.

 

After all that my wife and I both have the feeling the fem half is comfortable with the idea of at least having some kind of encounter even if it is just same partner sex in the same room but the male half was such a party-pooper we aren't really comfortable about proceeding with anything further.

 

Any thoughts or comments???

[WonderWhat 166]

She then went on thanking me for flirting with her and complimenting her and that it was the first time she had felt sexy and attractive in 10 years. Then she went on to say that the the next time we get together she wants to get a hotel room for the 4 of us and order some XXX movies and have an adult night at the hotel.

 

My guess?

 

They've been having thoughts and talks about dipping their toes into the lifestyle, you and your wife came up as someone they are attracted to and are comfortable with and far away enough --geographically and intimacy-wise--, that they picked you as likely candidates for experimenting.

 

Then they had some sort of disagreement, he went ahead with part of the plan grudgingly, she had a blast, and there's probably trouble because now that she's feeling sexy, her man is not helping her feel sexy and she's not holding back to go at the pace of the slowest half of the couple.

 

Possible drama in the future unless they get their act together. Might not be anything serious, they might work it out, but maybe you don't want to be in the middle.

 

Maybe have your wife and her talk?

[Swing*8701 887]

She's starting to have plans and they do not necessarily require her husband. Mixing metaphors here: A switch got turned on at the strip club and you cannot unring a bell.

[Just Passing By 140]

This would have fit in better earlier in the thread, but here goes.

The world is not a binary choice between uptight prudes and adverisment posting, club going official "swingers". There is a large cohort of independent , spontaneous sexually adventursome people.

If you are inclined, go ahead with ( activity/ socializing in question) . If you think you the signs are strong enough , the ask along the lines of " Wow !, so do you guys fool around" , or " ... are looking to fool around"? Don't bring up the terms swinger or lifestyle unless they do first.

This way it puts the ball into their court to either go ahead, or back off, with reasonably high room for them to save face either way.