I have just finished the largest study on swinging, STDs, and Safe Sex.

[drziggy 89]

I have just completed the largest study on swinging and STDs and Safe Sex.

 

If anyone is interested I could ask Julie to post the results herein...what I found may surprise you.

 

Let me know if you have any questions or want further information.

 

Cheers!

DrZiggy

[drziggy 89]

Here's the raw data of the study. The results were presented at the international congress of SSSS in Mexico last month.

 

The results do not include the statistical analysis and consequent evaluation or discussion.

 

Albeit this is based on s self-selected sample of swingers, we feel that it does reflect, overall, the estimated incidence and prevalence of STIs among the swinging population.

 

No study on swinging will derive a true randomized sample for the obvious reasons. The best we can do is to continue to publish studies that utilize samples of convenience and continue to extrapolate the results to the larger swinging population.

 

It is important to hold on the technical criticism and appreciate the contribution of what we have right now, which is better than what we had before, nothing...

 

SurveySummary_05252009.pdf

[VegasLee 1,486]

Can you advise as to the number of people that was involved in this study? (in reviewing your information it appears to be about 100 people.)

 

What are of the country was this taken in?

 

Was it done in person or on line?

 

Thank you.

[Chicup 41]

The STD part is about what I expected.

 

HPV and Herpes you need to mentally assume you will get while swinging sooner or later, and be glad if you don't, especially HPV, its just too common.

[CXXC 435]

The STD part is about what I expected.

 

HPV and Herpes you need to mentally assume you will get while swinging sooner or later, and be glad if you don't, especially HPV, its just too common.

 

Chicup

You really believe that you will contract HPV or Herpes while swinging? Is it truly your belief that you are destined to?

 

That is simply too frightening to consider. Perhaps I am an ostrich and my head is in the sand. No matter what precautions we take, we are destined to contract something? I hate to be foolish enough or ignorant enough to think that we will not if the facts are that we will!

 

Hmmmmmmm. I never actually considered the possibility that no matter what we did, we would end up sick.

 

This is quite a bit to think about! Thanks for turning the light on or at least pulling my head out of the sand!

[fun4Ds 1,097]

Thanks for the results, drziggy. The results could have been from our area, the way I see them.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,023]

Chicup

You really believe that you will contract HPV or Herpes while swinging? Is it truly your belief that you are destined to?

There is a significant probability that you picked up HPV of some kind or another (yes, there are different varieties) even before you started swinging. Many people show no distinguishable symptoms. Condoms help to prevent but it can still be transmitted.

[drziggy 89]

The following is the summary of the study and findings.

 

This was a NORTH AMERICAN sample (U.S. and Canada).

 

The purpose of this study was to gather information about the sexual activities of swingers, to determine the incidence and prevalence of STDs in this population, and to evaluate the safe sex practices of swingers.

 

- In previous research, the samples have been skewed on average 70% male and 30% female (Bergstrand & Williams, 2000; Fernandes, 2009).

Typically, male sexual orientation is heterosexual (over 80%), and female sexual orientation is reported as Bisexual (over 66%).

Bisexuality among males has been reported at 20% (Fernandes, 2009).

Most individuals engage in swinging activities on average 4-6 times a year (0ver 15% engage monthly) (Fernandes, 2009).

Over 90% swap partners at least some of the time, and over 38% engage in group sex (Fernandes, 2009).

Swingers are an unrecognized and under-reported risk group.

To date, here has been little or no research information regarding the average number of partners

the safe sex practices of swingers

the incidence or prevalence of STIs (Fernandes, 2009).

In 2007 a study conducted by the Department of Pathology, Laboratory of Immunogenetics at the VU University Medical Center in The Netherlands, and presented at the 15th Annual EUPHA Meeting in 2007

Found that the prevalence of STD in swingers in the Netherlands were higher for Chlamydia and Gonorrhea when compared to another risk groups such as adolescents.

 

Study Research Questions

Do demographic differences still exist between male and female respondents with a large sample size (n > 2,500 respondents)?

 

What are the rates of STI transmission through swinging sexual activities generally and for several specific STIs within a group of swingers?

 

What are the point prevalence rates (% that currently have an STD) for having an STI and for several specific STIs within a group of swingers?

 

Are STD rates affected

- Demographics

- Swinging Frequency

- Safer sex behaviors

- Attitudes toward swinging

 

Sample:

The respondents were a self-selected sample of swingers (sample of convenience) recruited through an online advertisement in three of major swingers’ web dating sites.

 

Instrument:

A survey was constructed by the researchers. A link to the survey was made available through the participating sites. Survey questions included a demographics section, a sexual behaviour and attitudes section, a safe sex practices section, and a STD profile section

 

Results

Demographic Gender Differences within the Sample

2,103 (74%) men & 741 (26%) women

 

Sexual Orientation

Men: more heterosexuals (84%) than bisexuals (15%)

Women: more bisexuals (72%) than heterosexuals (28%)

Very few identified as homosexual

8 (0.4%) men; 1 (0.1%) woman

Age

40% of men and women were 35-45

Men: more 45 or older (45%) than under 35 years old (16%)

Women: more under 35 years old (33%) than of over 45 (27%)

 

Race/Ethnicity

84% Caucasian; 10% Latino; 3% Black

Present Marital Status

72% married; 13% cohabiting; 7% single

Swinging Frequency

75% reported 2-12 times per year

More men than women reported swinging less than once a year (6% vs 3%)

More women than men reported swinging weekly (14% vs 7%)

 

 

Table 3. Proportions of participants (by sex) that reported contracting any STD and specific STDs during swinging sexual activities.

 

Men

(n = 2062)

Women

(n = 727)

 

Proportions that said

"yes"

Ever contracted an STD during swinging sexual activities .06 .11

Vaginitis .01 .05

Chlamydia .02 .03

Gonorrhea .01 .00

Syphilis .00 .00

Herpes .01 .02

HPV .01 .03

HIV .00 .00

Yeast Infection .01 .06

Bladder Infection .00 .04

Kidney Infection .00 .00

Other STD .01 .01

 

Table 4. Proportions of participants (by sex) that reported currently having any STD and specific STDs.

 

Men

(n = 2012)

Women

(n = 709)

 

Proportions that said

"yes"

Do you currently have an STD .04 .05

Vaginitis .00 .00

Chlamydia .00 .00

Gonorrhea .00 .00

Syphilis .00 .00

Herpes .03 .03

HPV .01 .03

HIV .00 .00

Yeast Infection .00 .00

Bladder Infection .00 .00

Kidney Infection .00 .00

Other STD .00 .00

 

Table 5. Percentages of participants who reported ever contracting an STD during swinging by marital status.

Men Women

n % Yes n % Yes

 

Married 1478 6.0 492 7.7

Single 153 7.2 48 12.5

Cohabi5ng 242 7.0 105 22.9

Widowed 11 0.0 6 16.7

Divorced 98 2.0 32 15.6

Other 37 2.7 25 20.0

Total 2019 5.9 708 11.2

 

Table 6. Percentages of participants who reported ever contracting an STD during swinging by swinging frequency.

 

Men Women

n % Yes n % Yes

Less than once a year 122 5.7 24 4.2

At least once a year 174 5.2 49 4.1

At least 2 to 5 0mes a year 595 4.0 168 10.7

At least 6 to 8 0mes a year 473 5.3 186 11.3

Monthly 511 7.6 189 14.8

Weekly 155 12.3 105 11.4

Total 2030 6.1 721 11.4

 

Safer Sex Behavior Items (items used to measure the level of sex sex practices).

Safer Oral Sex Behaviors

When engaging in oral sex during swinging…

I use condoms

I ask my partner(s) to use condoms

I use a latex barrier (i.e. dental dams)

I ask my partner(s) to use a latex barrier (i.e. dental dams)

Safer Intercourse Behaviors

When engaging in vaginal sex during swinging I use condoms

When engaging in anal sex during swinging I use condoms

When engaging in vaginal or anal sex during swinging I ask my partner(s) to use

condoms

Safer Sex Assessment Behaviors

I ask my sexual partners for their STD status

I tell my partners about my STD

I get tested for STDs at least once a year

Risky Sexual Behaviors

I have engaged in swinging activities while infected by an STD

I share sex toys with other sexual partners

I swing with "single" individuals

 

Please note:

5.9% of the Men and 11.2% of the Women reported ever having acquired an STD through swinging. This number is well below what would be expected in the general population .All of the STDs reported (with the exception of HERPES (.2% and HPV .3%) were bacterial infections.

The most common infections were vanigitis and chlamydia.

 

 

Conclusions based on this study:

1.*Swingers, by self-report, have very low rates of STDs, even though not all engage in safer sex practices.

2.* Women are twice as likely to report getting infected with a STD during swinging.

3.*Different variables differ among those who have versus those that have not been infected with a STD through swinging.

4. We may question the simple statement that multiple partners = high STD risk – we must consider the context as with this population.

5. Swinging itself may not be as high a risk behavior as we assume.

6. Swingers consider swinging a safe behavior; swingers also feel that other swingers are trustworthy.

 

However:

Sample : self-selected sample of convenience

May not be representative of the population

Although individuals were the units of this study it is reasonable to assume that their responses reflect the experience of the “couple”.

Individuals infected with STIs may have dropped out of swinging

Respondents may have had a bias motivation in participating in the survey.

Further research is necessary using urogenital sampling.

 

 

My own observations:

 

It is possible that Herpes may have been contracted other than by swinging (it is estimated that in the U.S. about 70% of the population actually has herpes). Herpes is NOT an STD per se since there are other means of contracting it other than sexual contact.

(by the way, herpes is, overall, less harmful than most viral disease).

HOWEVER, HPV is a sexual transmitted viral disease most likely to be picked up by sexual contact alone.

 

When you consider the incidence of STDs among this sample population, two questions can be asked.

Why is the incidence so low since only about 65% practice safe sex?

Why don't more people practice safe sex if they're swinging in "open" groups?

 

Another observation, of the people reporting having acquired and STD through swinging engaged in sexual activities with "single" individuals (not part of a couple). It is plausible the infections may derive from "other" sexual activity other than swinging.

 

Also, remember that although there was a distinction made between Males and Females for the purposes of demographics. it is assumed that either represented one part of a couple.

 

If you have further questions feel free to drop me a line.

Cheers!

DrZiggy

[drziggy 89]

The total number of participants/respondents was close to 4000 (albeit some responses had to be scraped due to some technical inconsistencies). Overall, we got close to 3000 responses (the biggest sample so far in a study on swingers).

[socolais 696]

Thank you for the information. The numbers are a bit lower than I expected. Does your data show anything interesting about the participants that engage in anal sex with playmates? Does any particular swinging behavior (like group sex) show a difference in risk?

 

I'm curious about the weekly swingers. Don't swing weakly

[drziggy 89]

The incidence among individuals engaging in anal sex was 0% or group sex was not related (correlated) to the overall incidence in this sample. However, swinging frequency (unprotected sex) did show a relationship albeit small.

 

The biggest effect was shown in individuals that swinging with "singles" (unprotected sex). This makes sense since singles are more likely to bring STIs from the "outside" of swinging.

 

Also, about 80% of the respondents reported having either annual or semi-annual check up for STDs.

 

We have a large data repository which has not yet been reported. Saving it for future studies.

[drziggy 89]

Here are some more times. The percentages reflect sample participation (NOT STDs...)

 

Table . Proportions of participants (by participant sex) who reported each reason as one the main reasons for swinging

Main reason for swinging Men

(n = 2103) Women

(n = 741)

Sexual variety* .69 .59

Pure sexual pleasure .68 .62

To meet others socially .43 .42

Personal fantasy .41 .39

Looking for emotional connection .03 .04

Looking for a new emotional relationship .03 .03

My partner wants me to* .02 .09

Note: Proportions sum to over 100% within sex because participants tended to check more than 1 reason. * Difference is statistically significant using independent samples t-tests and α set at .007.

 

 

Table . Proportions of participants (by participant sex) who reported engaging in each activity during swinging

Swinging Activity Men (n = 2103) Women (n = 741)

Oral Sex .87 .89

Vaginal Sex .83 .83

Exchange partners .78 .78

Group Sexual Activities .73 .69

MFM activities* .68 .58

FMF activities .58 .62

Anal Sex* .34 .24

Mutual Masturbation .31 .29

Watch Only* .21 .14

Woman on woman sex only* .13 .29

B&D .08 .11

Other .08 .07

Fisting .06 .06

S&M .05 .07

Do not Participate in any sexual activity .04 .03

Watersports .04 .03

Man on man sex only* .03 .01

Never exchange partners .02 .03

Note: * Difference is statistically significant using independent samples t-tests and α set at .003.

 

 

I'll convert some additional info into "friendly" Word format so that I can pass it on to you.

[drziggy 89]

This is the final table.

 

Marital Status

The percentage of male participants who reported having ever contracted an STD through swinging activities did not differ by current marital status χ2(5, N = 2019) = 5.01, p > .05. Among female participants, however, a significantly smaller proportion of married participants reported ever having contracted an STD, than other women χ2(5, N =708) = 23.24, p

Table ?. Number of participants and proportion of each group who have ever contracted an STD through swinging activities by current marital status.

Men Women

N % Yes n % Yes

Married 1478 6.0 492 7.7

Single 153 7.2 48 12.5

Cohabiting 242 7.0 105 22.9

Widowed 11 0.0 6 16.7

Divorced 98 2.0 32 15.6

Other 37 2.7 25 20.0

Total 2019 5.9 708 11.2

 

 

Relationship Length

The percentage of participants who reported having ever contracted an STD through swinging activities did not differ significantly by current length of their present relationship for men, χ2(5, N = 1974) = 2.79, p > .05, or women χ2(5, N = 708) = 8.80, p > .05.

Table ?. Number of participants and proportion who have ever contracted an STD through swinging activities by current relationship length.

Men Women

n % Yes n % Yes

1-3 years 220 7.3 115 16.5

4-7 years 341 5.3 122 11.5

8-10 years 287 6.6 95 4.2

11-15 years 308 4.9 83 8.4

Over 15 years 707 6.7 237 11.0

Total 1974 6.1 693 10.8

 

 

Current Marriage Number

We next examined whether the number of times that a participant has been married was related to risk for contracting an STD through swinging. For these analyses, we only included participants who reported currently being married. Results of a chi square test reveal that the percentage of participants who reported having ever contracted an STD through swinging activities did not differ significantly by current marriage number for men, χ2(4, N = 1469) = 2.55, p > .05, or women χ2(4, N = 492) = 2.71, p > .05.

Table ?. Number of participants and proportion who have ever contracted an STD through swinging activities by current marriage number for married participants only (N = 1,961).

Men Women

n % Yes n % Yes

1st 836 6.7 318 9.1

2nd 467 4.9 129 4.7

3rd 135 5.2 44 6.8

4th or higher 31 9.7 1 0.0

Total 1469 6.1 492 7.7

 

 

Swinging Frequency

A Chi Square test revealed that a significantly larger proportion of men who reported swinging weekly reported ever having contracted an STD through swinging activities than all other men, χ2(5, N = 2,030) = 17.73, p = .003. Proportions did not differ significantly among women, χ2(5, N = 721) = 6.12, p > .05.

Table ?. Number of participants and proportion who have ever contracted an STD through swinging activities by swinging frequency.

Men Women

n % Yes n % Yes

Less than once a year 122 5.7 24 4.2

At least once a year 174 5.2 49 4.1

At least 2 to 5 times a year 595 4.0 168 10.7

At least 6 to 8 times a year 473 5.3 186 11.3

Monthly 511 7.6 189 14.8

Weekly 155 12.3 105 11.4

Total 2030 6.1 721 11.4

[DigginIt 1,132]

Chicup

You really believe that you will contract HPV or Herpes while swinging? Is it truly your belief that you are destined to?

 

 

Deep down inside....I think the same way. Do I expect it or feel destined to contract it, absolutely NOT!!

 

I do believe that Mrs Diggs and I should be mentally prepared that there is a better than average possibility that anyone who is swinging could possibly contract either of those two based on how common they are.

 

I hope that being picky with our playmates steeply lessens the odds but never a guarantee. The only sure way is abstinence....that's out of the question, lol.

[CXXC 435]

Deep down inside....I think the same way. Do I expect it or feel destined to contract it, absolutely NOT!!

 

I do believe that Mrs Diggs and I should be mentally prepared that there is a better than average possibility that anyone who is swinging could possibly contract either of those two based on how common they are.

 

I hope that being picky with our playmates steeply lessens the odds but never a guarantee. The only sure way is abstinence....that's out of the question, lol.

 

Digginit

 

My initial shock is a knee jerk reaction to what seems to be acceptance of a inevitability. Like you, we are rather selective with whom we play. However, the more play mates we engage with the higher the odds become stacked against us. This fact does give one pause.

 

In our naiveté, we went ahead, playing Russian Roulette, with the belief that those we play with would be responsible and ensure the safety and well being of, not only themselves, but those they play with. Again, the chamber spins. To date, we have landed upon an empty cylinder. By dodging the bullet once more, we increase our odds of contracting something. Now, having made it this far in the game, I find we are hesitant to pull that trigger again!

 

Even if we stick to the same play mates moving forward, we must question. Will they do the same? We do not just have sex with them. We have sex with every person they have ever been with. They bring with them a crowd of others with whom they have engaged and those the others have engaged. It only takes one individual to infect the crowd. This individual may or may not know they are infected. Therein lies another matter entirely!

 

So now, as I sit, scratching my head, I wonder if the fun, passion, excitement and all that the lifestyle brings to the table is worth it. This is a most perplexing issue! It is one that we must consider with great thought and care.

[drziggy 89]

I would like to suggest an analogy that may represent the chances of getting a sexual infection during swinging.

 

When we drive we usually use seat belts to minimize the chances of injury during an accident. Moreover, we rely of air bags to add extra protection. However, sometimes seat belts can cause death in particular cases (without the seat belt the individual may have survived the crash...). Some individuals never use seat belts and haven't had adverse consequences.

 

The same applies to swinging. The chances of getting an STD is very, very low, albeit there's always a chance. Using condoms minimizes the risk even further (condoms are, contrary to distorted reports, about 98% safe... together with other safe sex practices).

 

Thus, condoms(and other safe sex practices) are akin to using seat belts while driving. So, here you have it, some people have engaged in swinging for over 20 years with no adverse effects. A few may get something the first time out....Some use protection, others don't.

 

I would never engage in sex with other partners unless I use condoms (the same applies to my wife), especially in a group situation with transient individuals. Better safe than sorry.....

 

Finally, no reason for the STD hysteria....so long as you're sensible in your sexual activities you should be OK. Choice of partners isn't necessarily the best strategy: safe sex is. Of course, there are always 'close" groups that require testing on an on-going basis.

 

The study was meant to be informative and not alarmist.

 

Enjoy your activities.

Cheers!

[VegasLee 1,486]

drziggy said:

Of course, there are always 'close" groups that require testing on an on-going basis.

 

As DrZiggy can attest, that "testing" is good for the moment the test is taken and means nothing later.

 

There is a "group" for years that attended the club. That "group" only plays together, about ten of them. They would not allow anyone else into the group unless they "Saw test results" within the last fifteen days. Funny thing, that group has "caught" something four times in the last four years. When they do they all stay away from the club and each other. Mad at each other but then get back together again. Seems their "closed" group is not working out to well over the years yet they swear by it.

 

A few years back I started a thread here that went something like "Is Swinging worth your life" and much of this was discussed. Funny part was I got a fair amount of "hate mail" from some that said I was to blunt and it should not have been brought to light. I also had one couple get out of the lifestyle because they finally "saw the light" and felt it was not worth the chances.

 

We have been in the Lifestyle for over Thirty Years. Have never caught anything more than a cold. We have been very, very lucky to say the least.

 

It can happen though. We have seen it with others.

 

No reason to go running for the hills but at the same time don't hide from the facts that something can happen to you. You can also get hit by a bus while sitting at a bus stop.

 

You have to make choices in life that you are comfortable with and you can live with.

 

I am sure DrZiggy did not post this to scare anyone and I don't try to scare anyone. Most of you that have known me for years know I am not going to paint a pretty picture for you. I would much rather you live in the real world and know the facts.

 

 

Enjoy life and do what works for you. That is all that really matters at the end.

[CXXC 435]

Hey Doc!

 

Thanks for the info! I fully understand your analogy! Like seatbelts, we are just as vigilant with condom usage. Partners are questioned and safety measures are incorporated at all times.

 

My reaction is not so much hysteria as it is a shocking revelation. the realization that, no matter what precautions you take, you still may contract something is simply remarkable and needs to be considered. We truly never did entertain this fact before, as we believed through the safety precautions we utilize, we would be protected.

 

Certainly, the more active you are the more your odds increase. We are no strangers to danger. In fact, we partake is several activities considered to be some of the most life threatening in the world. Cave diving, Motorcycles, small air craft.... just a few of our hobbies. We take every safety precaution to minimize the chances of injury or death. That being said, we go into each activity knowing the dangers and are prepared for them through training and safe practices. It is all on us and only us.

 

The lifestyle, however, is not all on us. It is based upon the actions of others. One individual, through ignorance or malice can ruin the lives of many.

 

So, we are forced to sit back and take stock. We must take an inventory of the pleasure Vs damage here. I am certain we will choose pleasure. However, this struck a chord and as that chord is still vibrating, our minds are uneasy for this moment! Tomorrow may well be a completely different story.

[Chicup 41]

Imagine you were immortal, as in you wouldn't age, but still mortal when it came to injury, as in you could be killed.

 

Now imagine you flew regularly.

 

The odds of a normal person dying in a plane crash is very small, in their life time.

 

The odds of the immortal dying in a plane crash is close to 100%, sooner or later the plane WILL crash.

 

Part of our risk aversion in life is based on the fact that we DON'T live forever. We take risks based on the fact that the risks are small and the odds are they won't kill us in our life time.

 

Now personally I think the STD rates are going to be higher in reality than what was surveyed, surveys are only so good, people do tend to lie about such things 'just in case', and some people honestly don't know as well.

 

If you swing long enough, even with condoms, you will get an STD eventually. Now most of those STD's are not going to be fatal, and most of them will be 100% curable. Herpes being a notable exception.

 

So there comes the risk.

[Unsub 15]

I feel I need to interject my opinions here and tell my story. As a regular on this board I wish to remain unidentified from those I know here. We have been swinging for a few years now, had 14 partners, and used condoms. I found a suspicious bump and went to the Dr and she dismissed it. Went to my obgyn. The bump was so small she couldn’t determine what it was so she cut if off in the office (yes cut if off, and that hurt like a bitch) and sent it off. I was called a week later with the results of HPV genital warts. I suspected it deep down and there with that call was my answer. I am not angry really, somewhat disappointed that a disease stopped my swinging verses it being just my own decision. It was a risk we were fully aware of so there was no surprise. I am not angry with whom I may have gotten it from. Most likely he has no clue he is a carrier. I am seeking treatment (Aldara 5% cream) for the few little bumps I have, I am glad I found it early, before they got big and ugly….

 

Quote

Dr Ziggy The chances of getting an STD is very, very low, albeit there's always a chance. Using condoms minimizes the risk even further (condoms are, contrary to distorted reports, about 98% safe... together with other safe sex practices).

I will have to disagree with this percentage. 98% for pregnancy maybe. But its not that high for STD’s. Here is an example of just one study:

 

“condoms reduce the risk of HIV transmission by about 85%.4 Condom effectiveness against transmission of bacterial diseases like gonorrhea, chlamydia and syphilis is significantly lower than for HIV.2 Conclusive evidence is lacking for condom effectiveness against transmission of several other specific STIs, such as HPV and trichomoniasis, which each affect over 5 million people annually.2 Finally effectiveness is seriously limited for the many STIs which are transmitted through skin-to-skin contact, since condoms do not cover all the areas of the body which may be the source of transmission.”

 

 

Quote

Chicup HPV and Herpes you need to mentally assume you will get while swinging sooner or later, and be glad if you don't, especially HPV, its just too common.

 

I agree with Chicup on this. For one it is too common and second if you think you wont then you are only fooling yourself. However you may never get it.

 

 

Quote

Vegas Lee We have been in the Lifestyle for over Thirty Years. Have never caught anything more than a cold. We have been very, very lucky to say the least.

 

Vegas Lee, you are indeed very lucky. However, the span of 30 years in of itself really doesn’t mean much. How many partners in the span is more relevant. And no I don’t want to know the answer, just pointing out a little or a lot of playmates can swing by in 30 years time… Also, for males, there is no test for HPV, you could very well be a carrier and never ever know it. For you sake, I hope not.

 

 

Quote

Cxxc In our naiveté, we went ahead, playing Russian Roulette, with the belief that those we play with would be responsible and ensure the safety and well being of, not only themselves, but those they play with. Again, the chamber spins. To date, we have landed upon an empty cylinder. By dodging the bullet once more, we increase our odds of contracting something. Now, having made it this far in the game, I find we are hesitant to pull that trigger again!

CXXC, yes I think your doing everything with in your power to be safe, but your are naïve if you think your current thoughts and practices are going to keep you std free. We too played Russian Roulette and we or I got the bullet. Condoms will only lesson the risk, but I too used condoms and still got HPV genital warts.

 

Here are some info tid bits that I think all should consider. I have included the links at the bottom so you all can read the info in full.

 

CDC web site: There are two primary ways that STDs are transmitted. Some diseases, such as HIV infection, gonorrhea, chlamydia, and trichomoniasis, are transmitted when infected urethral or vaginal secretions contact mucosal surfaces (such as the male urethra, the vagina, or cervix). In contrast, genital ulcer diseases (such as genital herpes, syphilis, and chancroid) and human papillomavirus (HPV) infection are primarily transmitted through contact with infected skin or mucosal surfaces.A greater level of protection is provided for the diseases transmitted by genital secretions. A lesser degree of protection is provided for genital ulcer diseases or HPV because these infections also may be transmitted by exposure to areas (e.g., infected skin or mucosal surfaces) that are not covered or protected by the condom.

Genital ulcer diseases and HPV infections can occur in both male and female genital areas that are covered or protected by a latex condom, as well as in areas that are not covered. Consistent and correct use of latex condoms reduces the risk of genital herpes, syphilis, and chancroid only when the infected area or site of potential exposure is protected. Condom use may reduce the risk for HPV infection and HPV-associated diseases (e.g., genital warts and cervical cancer).

 

From Ashastd.org: The net result is that very few people ever have the chance to place genital HPV in an accurate context, as the very common virus it really is. According to an article published in 1997 in the American Journal of Medicine, about 74 percent of Americans--nearly three out of four--have been infected with genital HPV at some point in their lives.

 

Among those ages 15-49, only one in four Americans has not had a genital HPV infection.

 

It's true that most often genital HPV produces no symptoms or illness, and so a person who has been infected may never know about it. Experts estimate that at any given time, only about 1% of all sexually active Americans have visible genital warts. Far more women have abnormal Pap smears related to HPV infection, but in many cases health care providers do not explain the link between HPV and cervical infection, perpetuating the misunderstanding.

 

Myth: If I've always used condoms, I'm not at risk for HPV.

The reason is simply that condoms do not cover the entire genital area of either sex. They leave the vulva, anus, perineal area, base of the penis, and scrotum uncovered, and contact between these areas can transmit HPV. Spermicides probably do not stop HPV. In lab studies, spermicides failed to kill the human papillomavirus.

 

There are no blood tests clinically available to diagnose a person for HPV.

 

Links for the info above:

https://www.ashasexualhealth.org/study-finds-nearly-half-of-men-have-hpv/

 

STD Facts - Genital Herpes

 

Sexually Transmitted Diseases - Information from CDC

 

 

I basically want to say that it seems condoms are a false sense of security for many. Condoms can not protect the areas it doesn’t cover. My few warts are located between my anus and vagina. Where the condom doesn't cover... But I would still use them even though condoms were originally developed for preventing pregnancy they still are somewhat effective against STD's. Swinging is risky, you have to determine if its worth it for you. Was it worth it for me? I would have to say yes. This form of HPV isn’t going to kill me. The warts are rather insignificant. We can still play with other HPV people if we choose to. I have no regrets and would likely do it all over again.

 

Thanks for reading. Be informed, be aware, it might never happen but dont think it won't happen.

The end.

[Unsub 15]

Boy I sure killed this thread! Actually surprised that there wasnt some sort of comment, especially from those who were mentioned in my post. I am not sure if it was the shock value or what, but didnt expect the discussion to end so quick.

 

lol, its not the first time I have killed a thread Just hope it can help someone else.

 

[CXXC 435]

You didn't kill it. I have actually been working on a reply. However, it is not as simple as write and post. I have to think on it. The smoke will clear soon and I will post it!

[Unsub 15]

You didnt kill it. I have actually been working on a reply. However, it is not as simple as write and post. I have to think on it. The smoke will clear soon and I will post it!

 

No rush, it took me a week of thinking about it and two days to write my post. I always appreciate them more when they are well thought out and some time is spent on them! Besides, it is getting close to Christmas and there are other priorities in life and posting to an STD thread is not real high up on my list!

[drziggy 89]

I just had to add some facts to the above replies. After all, Sexology (sexuality and sexual behaviour) is my field of study and research, thus I possess a certain amount of knowledgeable in infectious disease related to the field.

 

Firstly, quite often the numbers quoted by the CDC always consider worst case scenarios and are NOT based on statistical probability information (especially when it relates to the sexual STIs...). This is often one of the criticisms of the CDC, an adherence to the social zeitgeist.

 

Secondly, the rate condom effectiveness at 85% has been refuted and shown not to be based on factual data but merely estimates. The true estimation based on the factual information we possess is indeed 98% for STIs and Pregnancy (exceptions for possibly HPV). However, there's no 100% effective means of protection. Mucous membranes exposed to bodily fluids should be covered by a condom. If they are not, you aren't using it properly. Moreover, HPV (genital warts) can usually be identified by the naked eye either on the penis or or the genital area of both males and females; the same applies to Herpes sores (active stage), albeit anyone with active Herpes probably wouldn't engage in sexual contact (extreme pain is associated with the sores...). Genital warts can easily removed by "burning", albeit the virus may still be present.

 

Thirdly, HPV can be "caught" merely by rubbing skin or rubbing hands on the infected skin (although HPV is considered an STI it should not classified just as such. The same criteria applies to Herpes Simplex).

 

Estimates from the CDC aren't the only ones given credibility. There are other world organizations with as high a reputation as the CDC. ALL information is usually considered when evaluating pandemics or outbreaks of particular disease (and not just STIs).

 

My main purpose for the research was to evaluate the incidence and prevalence of STIs among the swinging population. Does my study paint an accurate picture? Somewhat. Does it suggest that these rates are stable over the swinging population overall? Probably. As I suggested in the analysis in the study, which will be published early 2010, the sample may not reflect those that have had STIs or those that may not be willing to share that information with a researcher. I guess that I find myself in the same boat as other researchers representing the CDC and other information gathering health organizations. We ALL work out of estimates based on the level of probability we decide to work with (probability defines how accurate our findings are, either 95% or 99% sure).

 

I stand by my results as having strong internal and external validity, reliability and consistency.

 

What you do with the information and how you decide to interpret it is totally up to you.

 

I do feel that the results do represent what is going on in the swinging community, I do not believe that the numbers for STIs are much higher than what I have reported.

 

Having said said, I still think that safe sex is the best way to minimize the chances of acquiring STIs. I do not agree that condoms are not reliable, thus people should just take their chances. Moreover, there are too many factors involved in the process (too many cogs to this machine) to reduce it simply to condoms or other barriers.

 

Cheers!

[fun4Ds 1,097]

Unsub said:

I basically want to say that it seems condoms are a false sense of security for many. Condoms can not protect the areas it doesn’t cover. My few warts are located between my anus and vagina. Where the condom doesn't cover... But I would still use them even though condoms were originally developed for preventing pregnancy they still are somewhat effective against STD's. Swinging is risky, you have to determine if its worth it for you. Was it worth it for me? I would have to say yes. This form of HPV isn’t going to kill me. The warts are rather insignificant. We can still play with other HPV people if we choose to. I have no regrets and would likely do it all over again.

 

Thanks for reading. Be informed, be aware, it might never happen but dont think it won't happen.

The end.

 

When I got to this part the only response I could think of was, amen (I agree) I think your post is informative and truly sincere.

 

I rate this thread "excellent" as well and hope, that because of this posts entirety, as well the other contributors, and for so much of drziggy's work. It is pinned to the stickies in this forum.

 

Maybe that's not near enough, but its the only way I can say thank you. Your thoughts, may make a change in someones life someday reading here, as it has effected me.

 

 

Unsub said:

Boy I sure killed this thread! Actually surprised that there wasn't some sort of comment, especially from those who were mentioned in my post. I am not sure if it was the shock value or what, but didn't expect the discussion to end so quick.

 

lol, it's not the first time I have killed a thread Just hope it can help someone else.

 

I'll laugh with you, not at you.... Deal? Let's hang out together

 

Again, thank you for giving me the opportunity to take time, and listen...

[Guest swing456lover]

I have just completed the largest study on swinging and STDs and Safe Sex.

If anyone is interested I could ask Julie to post the results herein...what I found may surprise you.

Let me know if you have any questions or want further information.

Cheers!

DrZiggy

I would like to see the results too. I have ever seen a report at a STD dating service says swingers are more likely to be infected with STD. Is that true? I am a little scared.

[Guest swing456lover]

The STD part is about what I expected.

 

HPV and Herpes you need to mentally assume you will get while swinging sooner or later, and be glad if you don't, especially HPV, its just too common.

 

Yes. According to the CDC, there are over 65 million Americans currently

living with an STD, 19 million new STD infections each year, one in three sexually active men and women living with Herpes, and about 50% of all sexually active Americans affected by HPV.

[VegasLee 1,486]

Vegas Lee, you are indeed very lucky. However, the span of 30 years in of itself really doesn’t mean much. How many partners in the span is more relevant. And no I don’t want to know the answer, just pointing out a little or a lot of playmates can swing by in 30 years time… Also, for males, there is no test for HPV, you could very well be a carrier and never ever know it. For you sake, I hope not.

 

It appears that you missed the "WE" part in my posting. Laura has been with me and active the whole time and once again, I will agree that WE have been very lucky.

 

If you read much of the forums here from the past years you will know that WE have not been the "Social Dance Club" type swingers.

 

You are correct, years in itself mean nothing but I can attest that WE also have the "Experience" to go with those years.

[tribbles 490]

We have had a lot of swingers mention tests (on the female) that I know are for HPV but oddly, none of them think they have an STI

 

I'm happy to see HIV at 0. It's really the only one that worries me.

[Unsub 15]

It appears that you missed the "WE" part in my posting. Laura has been with me and active the whole time and once again, I will agree that WE have been very lucky.

 

If you read much of the forums here from the past years you will know that WE have not been the "Social Dance Club" type swingers.

 

You are correct, years in itself mean nothing but I can attest that WE also have the "Experience" to go with those years.

 

Ok not sure why the drama with "we" stuff but I know your part of a couple.... I wasnt talking to your lovely wife Laura as she did not post the message, you did. I was talking to you. So ok, we are in agreement with you "TWO" are very lucky!

 

No disrespect intended in this or the other post, just stating the fact that as a male YOU can not be tested for HPV therefore there is no 100% way to know that you have it or dont... You might be fine, and I would almost trust that you are. Maybe I should have added more smiley faces and some lol's, as that post was not negatively directed at anyone. "For your sake, I hope not." Was meant with utter sincerity, because I like you and value your wisdom that you carry, I felt you would make an exciting play partner. That would never happen because of geography, but a gal can fantasize cant she?

 

[Unsub 15]

When I got to this part the only response I could think of was, amen (I agree) I think your post is informative and truly sincere.

 

I rate this thread "excellent" as well and hope, that because of this posts entirety, as well the other contributers, and for so much of drziggy's work. It is pinned to the stickies in this forum.

 

Maybe thats not near enough, but its the only way I can say thank you. Your thoughts, may make a change in someones life someday reading here, as it has effected me.

 

 

I'll laugh with you, not at you.... Deal ? Lets hang out together

 

Again, thank you for giving me the opportunity to take time, and listen...

 

Thanks for the kind words. Whats the saying, laughter is the best medicine? It IS the best medicine, and its free!

My couch or yours?

 

[fun4Ds 1,097]

Thanks for the kind words. Whats the saying, laughter is the best medicine? It IS the best medicine, and its free!

My couch or yours?

 

It would have to be yours, at least tonight......

 

Free laughter.... I'm into that, big time !!

[VegasLee 1,486]

Ok not sure why the drama with "we" stuff but I know your part of a couple....

 

No Drama at all. The reason I pointed out the We was because of the testing part.

 

You are correct, there is no test for us males but because of me being very much a part of a We she would end up with something from me if I caught anything. She can be and is tested.

 

Hard to read things in black and white at times. No offense meant at all.

 

And you never know, EVERYONE comes to Vegas!

[sweet_tna 680]

Thanks for posting the results. While interesting, I didn't find any real surprises there.

[drziggy 89]

The study has a high level of importance because it was the FIRST study done on Swingers and STDs.

 

You may infer that other studies done with the general population may apply to swingers. That would be be comparing apples and oranges. Swingers are an important group to study because of their acknowledgment of multiple sex partners, thus, the impact of promiscuity can be evaluated somewhat more directly and objectively. In contrasts, it is rather difficult to evaluate rates of STDs with the general population since the only data we have is derived from health clinics and other health practitioners that rely on either diagnosed or self-reported infections.

Now, does this mean that swinging is a totally safe? No. Life isn't totally safe as we all know. However, we can make sure that we minimize the chances of infection by following some of the strategies I recommend somewhere herein (safe sex is the best one yet...).

 

If you have further questions, drop me a line.

 

Cheers!

DrZiggy

[socolais 696]

The study has a high level of importance because it was the FIRST study done on Swingers and STDs.

.....

However, we can make sure that we minimize the chances of infection by following some of the strategies I recommend somewhere herein (safe sex is the best one yet...).

If you have further questions, drop me a line.

Cheers!

DrZiggy

 

There are so many "cooties" we are at risk of catching when we have multiple sexual partners. There are no features or properties we can observe in our potential playmates that can assure us the other person is STD free. The brightness of their smile; their apparent disposable income; their popularity at the party; and everything else are totally meaningless as an indication of what we might catch (or even be exposed to and happen to not become infected). We can't even be completely certain of our own sterility. What critters are viable on the sheets of the recently used bed at the house party?

 

I think it all depends on Lady Luck because safe sex is never really safe. We would be unlikely to willingly rely on the effectiveness of condoms to protect us from the known STD carrier. Condom use, is just one of the rituals we may practice to influence our risks (and our peace of mind) and I believe it may be less effective than a warm soapy shower soon after an encounter. We believe we influence our risk by selecting playmates from the routine participants at the recurring house parties; we imagine they would not knowingly propagate an STD because it would damage their reputation.

 

I'm having difficulty assigning my personal value judgment on your data. On the one hand, the studies need to be done and I'm glad you're actively seeking answers. The good news is that your data shows swinging as a reasonably low risk activity. The unanswered question is how can we individually use this data to support best practices in our swinging choices to manage our risks. Can we demonstrate the merit of any particular ritual?

[Chicup 41]

There are so many "cooties" we are at risk of catching when we have multiple sexual partners. There are no features or properties we can observe in our potential playmates that can assure us the other person is STD free. The brightness of their smile; their apparent disposable income; their popularity at the party; and everything else are totally meaningless as an indication of what we might catch (or even be exposed to and happen to not become infected). We can't even be completely certain of our own sterility. What critters are viable on the sheets of the recently used bed at the house party?

 

I have to disagree to a point.

 

General cleanliness, education, and socioeconomic factors are outward signs which would give a better indication of the potential health of a partner, so I do not think they are meaningless.

 

What they are not is definitive. You can still get HIV from a multimillionaire, three PhD holding germaphobe, so you need to take care, but the risk is less than if you were heading to Cracktown looking for a hooker.