Is exposure to HPV inevitable?

[duo33470 15]

Hi. We have been involved with other people for only a few months, and have done a lot of reading. We are slowly coming to believe that one way or another, exposure to HPV is inevitable as it is so common. Whether it manifests as warts or cervical problems or whatever, we are not sure, but do you think that most swingers are exposed to HPV?

[TheLorax 173]

Hi we have been involved with other people for only a few months, and have done a lot of reading. We are slowly coming to believe that one way or another, exposure to HPV is inevitable as it is so common. Whether it manifests as warts or cervical problems or whatever, we are not sure, but do you think that most swingers are exposed to HPV?

 

Yep. Not only is there a lot of ignorance about it since it's not an obvious disease, but there are a lot of folks who will either be deliberately blind to it or who will hide it. Many men will be asymptomatic but still infectious. It is one of the most common STIs in the world. You can minimize exposure, but there's no guarantee.

[Chicup 41]

Yes, but on the plus side HPV is curable.

[duo33470 15]

What does the cure involve? The reason I ask is because my wife and I enjoy doing small groups of men. One guy told us he had previously had warts but they were treated and went away, so he was safe to play. He seemed fine and we appreciated his honesty.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,023]

The best summary I have seen so far had these statements:

 

As many as 50-75% of sexually active people are infected with HPV during their lifetime, and in most cases, the infection causes no symptoms and resolves without treatment.

 

There is no cure for HPV. In many cases, infection goes away on its own.

 

Removing warts may reduce the risk for HPV transmission, but there is no evidence for this.

 

I have not yet read any direct statement regarding the chance of infecting somebody else after warts disappear but reading between the lines I believe that once a person has it, that same person will be able to infect someone else.

 

Hope this helps.

[Chicup 41]

Due to the asymptomatic rate, and the fact that one knows for sure WHEN it is out of the system, there isn't a clear cut yes/no.

 

This is why HPV will always be with us until there is a vaccine for all strains.

[LFM2 1,482]

Whether it manifests as warts or cervical problems or whatever, we are not sure, but do you think that most swingers are exposed to HPV?

 

We've only been swinging for a few years. To answer this though... Yes, I think it's inevitable that with over 70 different strains, you'll eventually be exposed to HPV at some point.

 

The Lorax explained that many people are asymptomatic and yet still have sex with others unknowingly infecting others.

 

Leave the lights on and look at what you're either about to fuck or put in your mouth.

 

Just sayin'.

[tribbles 490]

Isn't the more dangerous HPV strains the ones that never or seldom have warts with them?

 

Meaning, you won't see them but can catch the virus.

 

Get regular paps (the female) and be tested for HPV and monitor for cervical cancer. It's the best ya can do.

[Unsub 15]

tribbles said:

Isn't the more dangerous HPV strains the ones that never or seldom have warts with them?

 

Meaning, you won't see them but can catch the virus.

 

Get regular paps (the female) and be tested for HPV and monitor for cervical cancer. It's the best ya can do.

 

To answer your question, the strains that cause warts are different than those that cause cancer.

Here you can find what strains cause what:

Types of HPV

 

And there is no test for HPV (blood test). Unless you have genital warts or have had abnormal Pap test results, you won't be able to tell you have HPV

Genital Warts Information and Pictures

 

I also agree with Michael in the fact that there is no documented evidence that once the warts are gone that you are no longer contagious.

There are several treatments for warts, but even with them gone, you still have that form of HPV. So who knows if you can still pass it or not, I am going err on the side of caution with the possibility that it can still be passed on to others.

 

My warts have responded well to the Aldara cream. After just a few weeks a few are now gone and a few still remain but I can see changes in them

 

To the OP, with the current stats on the number of people infected and many don't know it, I think it is inevitable. While I do think that the swinging community is safer than the vanilla world, it is still out there nonetheless. IMHO your play style is putting you at even greater risk. Women are more likely to become infected with it and show symptoms, men more times than not are just carriers for the disease...

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I would say Yes... but I would add that exposure to other STDs is also probably inevitable.

[Chicup 41]

As someone who understands virology and has read the literature, I DO think once you have HPV you do eventually develop and immunity to it and are no longer contagious.

 

HPV is not like herpes which hides in the nerve cells. That is why herpes never 100% goes away, it lies dormant in cells the immune system won't attack.

 

The problem with HPV is that not everyone develops warts and that early in the outbreak even if they will develop them they are not very noticeable.

[foozballnow 31]

I was wondering this same thing. It seemed inevitable. But like the others say, it is a reality one must come to grips with. But then again, if you do acquire it, will knowing it was inevitable make it any easier? Then what do you do...

[SW_PA_Couple 4,023]

I was wondering this same thing. It seemed inevitable. But like the others say, it is a reality one must come to grips with. But then again, if you do acquire it, will knowing it was inevitable make it any easier? Then what do you do...

Hold it true, whate'er befall;

I feel it, when I sorrow most;

'Tis better to have loved and lost

Than never to have loved at all.

 

 

~Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem, In Memoriam:27, 1850

[duo33470 15]

I would say Yes... but I would add that exposure to other STDs is also probably inevitable.

 

Is the risk we take each time we are with a new partner add to part of the excitement and addiction?

[The Fuse 1,012]

Is the risk we take each time we are with a new partner add to part of the excitement and addiction?

 

No, absolutely not. Unless you enjoy playing Russian roulette. But with HPV, I figure that sooner or later you get at least one form of it. Hopefully not the kind that causes warts. In any case, most cases are cleared out of the body naturally, without any intervention, within a couple of years.

 

When it comes to other STDs, it's a different story.

[tribbles 490]

So Fuse, the kind that doesn't cause warts but may cause cancer is 'better'?

 

I'm confused. I'd rather have warts to get rid of than deal with cancer. Wouldn't everyone?

[N8ture Girl 318]

tribbles said:

So Fuse, the kind that doesn't cause warts but may cause cancer is 'better'?

 

I'm confused. I'd rather have warts to get rid of than deal with cancer. Wouldn't everyone?

 

That is not what she said. No where did she say she would rather have cancer.

 

Quote

But with HPV, I figure that sooner or later you get at least one form of it. Hopefully not the kind that causes warts. In any case, most cases are cleared out of the body naturally, without any intervention, within a couple of years.

 

She is referring to the cases of HPV that are cleared up on their own. Most of the time one never even knows they had it. Cancer is not naturally cleared out of the body

 

I am not concerned with HPV in general, if it happens it happens. Do I want it? NO, but when we decided to swing, we were aware of the risks involved. When you take on swinging, or are a single playing the field it is inevitable. I think swinging is a little safer in that respect.

HPV is the least of my worries, I am far more concerned with HSV and some of the other serious STD's. IMO HPV (warts) is the lesser of the two evils.

 

Educate yourself.

[The Fuse 1,012]

N8ture Girl said:

That is not what she said. No where did she say she would rather have cancer.

 

She is referring to the cases of HPV that are cleared up on their own. Most of the time one never even knows they had it. Cancer is not naturally cleared out of the body

 

I am not concerned with HPV in general, if it happens it happens. Do I want it? NO, but when we decided to swing, we were aware of the risks involved. When you take on swinging, or are a single playing the field it is inevitable. I think swinging is a little safer in that respect.

 

HPV is the least of my worries, I am far more concerned with HSV and some of the other serious STD's. IMO HPV (warts) is the lesser of the two evils.

 

Educate yourself.

 

Thanks N8tureGirl, I was a little late getting back. I hope any one who reads my last post would interpret it correctly. If the post is a little unclear, which I don't think mine really was, then hopefully we can at least give each other enough benefit of the doubt to assume we'd rather have warts than cancer.

[TwoAreLooking 58]

Is the risk we take each time we are with a new partner add to part of the excitement and addiction?

 

Um, no. No no no.

 

Just sayin'.

[TheLorax 173]

Is the risk we take each time we are with a new partner add to part of the excitement and addiction?

 

Not for me it isn't. If I could be 100% sure of never contracting an STI I would have no issue at all with having sex with multiple new partners at every opportunity. Not having to worry about it would make it far more exciting for me. Even STI's that are treatable are not something I care for. At all. No excitement.

 

Just remember that life is nothing but a sexually transmitted infection ultimately ending in death!

[tribbles 490]

Unsub said:

To answer your question, the strains that cause warts are different than those that cause cancer.

Here you can find what strains cause what:

Types of HPV

 

The Fuse said:

No, absolutely not. Unless you enjoy playing Russian roulette. But with HPV, I figure that sooner or later you get at least one form of it. Hopefully not the kind that causes warts. In any case, most cases are cleared out of the body naturally, without any intervention, within a couple of years.

 

When it comes to other STDs, it's a different story.

 

Just seemed confusing to me.

[The Fuse 1,012]

Just seemed confusing to me.

Sorry, just the perils of trying to do something too quickly to think it through.

 

Also, I am with the last few posters. The possibility of STDs is NOT PART OF THE EXCITEMENT. It is quite the turn-off.

[tribbles 490]

Agree it is not exciting to think of it. Truthfully, more scary. Although, I have different levels of fear for different STD's.

[foozballnow 31]

Although I can understand that you might fear some more than others, we avoid all of them just the same tribbles =-)

[highlander 21]

I personally think that exposure to HPV is highly likely in virtually _ANY_ sexually active lifestyle these days-including declared monogamy.

 

Gardisil is the conventional treatment.

 

I think the other thing that can be done is look seriously at ones lifestyle to make it as healthy as possible. HPV often gets cleared in healthy people. I don't think we really understand who the folks are that can't clear the virus well-and who the folks are that develop the more severe symptoms - but I'd be willing to be that getting in as good of health as you can sure couldn't hurt. Typically people that are stressed, run down and sick have more trouble clearing any virus-I'd be surprised if HPV was an exception. Similarly, think about the lifestyle choices you see in your partners-someone might be hot without being healthy.

 

Some STD's seem to go together. We don't have good tests for HPV in men yet. However, we do have good tests for a variety of other STD's - and it is reasonable to expect partners to have regular STD checkups and be willing to show you their results-especially for stuff that is treatable.

[highlander 21]

The estimates on HIV reduction from condom use range from 60-90% per encounter. The term "proper use" IMHO is a cop-out to avoid that fact that condoms break and slip--and that many people find it very hard to use condoms consistently. No other safety oriented profession would regard a 40-10% failure rate as "highly effective" when we are talking a life threatening disease. Better than nothing, maybe.

 

Still for some populations, even consistent reported condom use is associated with fairly high mortality. The reason condoms work for HIV so "well" is that HIV is pretty hard to get for many people.

 

That isn't really the case with HPV. It is widely out there-and it is pretty easy for many people to get. I'm honestly not sure what the real answer is there-but I think it is a pretty important issue.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

The estimates on HIV reduction from condom use range from 60-90% per encounter.

 

I have never heard that number. Where does it come from?

 

The term "proper use" IMHO is a cop-out to avoid that fact that condoms break and slip--and that many people find it very hard to use condoms consistently.

 

I don't agree that it is a cop out. Not using condoms consistently certain is not proper use. Nor is using condoms with lubricants that can degrade them, or using a condom too large or too small. Not to mention I have seen men in such a hurry to "get in" that they did not roll the condom down properly, causing it to slip.

 

I think if you use a condom consistently and as indicated that certainly would be "proper use." Anything else wouldn't.

 

No other safety oriented profession would regard a 40-10% failure rate as "highly effective" when we are talking a life threatening disease. Better than nothing, maybe.

 

LOL- have you worked with the military? The IG, and other groups, that are directly or indirectly, responsible for safety of personnel have some strange definitions of "highly effective." A weapons system I worked on had a less than 50% probability of being able to fire it more than once, degrading each time it was fired. But since it had a 90% kill ration per round fired, it was considered "highly effective." We should just be glad the those people are not in charge of public health policy.

[highlander 21]

This is a high end source.

 

The Golden study claims the rate of HIV infection among those that report consistent condom use is for gay men that practice anal sex about 60% lower among the men that reported using consistently versus those that do not.

 

Just FYI: I used to work in the survey area. There are ALL kinds of problems with many of these studies on both sides. The older studies on the effectiveness of condoms for contraception tended to top out at 90%-which is part of why I have a bit of trouble believing any figures above that. Every survey I've seen was incredibly flawed by the criteria I was taught to use (just FYI, I worked on one of the early national alcoholism surveys).

 

Some of the heterosexual studies were looking at married couples where the male partner was a hemophiliac or known to be HIV+. That is a VERY different population than say folks meeting each other at a club or bar.

 

Part of the issue is that the population that tends to use condoms consistently also do all kinds of other things that tend to lower their risk of getting HIV _and_ of transmitting HIV. For example, I'd be willing to bet that folks that consistently use condoms and are HSV+ are more likely to avoid sex with new partners when they have an active cold sore than non-condom users. In that case, it is the fact these folks are generally more careful rather than the condom that is preventing HIV transmission.

 

The simple fact is that condoms are hard to get many people to use. If perceived risk goes down, people become less willing to use them. I'm not aware of any reliable studies that have shown condom promotion to do more than slow down the rate of increase of HIV. By contrast: Cuba's program of mandatory, universal testing actually claimed to reduce the overall incidence of HIV in Cuba. AIM's program of multiple STD testing is claimed to have reduced the rate of STD's among adult film actors to 20% that of the general population in LA.

 

Coupleerotic22 said:

I have never heard that number. Where does it come from?

 

I don't agree that it is a cop out. Not using condoms consistently certain is not proper use. Nor is using condoms with lubricants that can degrade them, or using a condom too large or too small. Not to mention I have seen men in such a hurry to "get in" that they did not roll the condom down properly, causing it to slip.

 

I think if you use a condom consistently and as indicated that certainly would be "proper use." Anything else wouldn't.

 

LOL- have you worked with the military? The IG, and other groups, that are directly or indirectly, responsible for safety of personnel have some strange definitions of "highly effective." A weapons system I worked on had a less than 50% probability of being able to fire it more than once, degrading each time it was fired. But since it had a 90% kill ratio per round fired, it was considered "highly effective." We should just be glad the those people are not in charge of public health policy.

[hawksfan1 15]

I want to start by saying this site is great. My wife and I have been thinking about swinging for some time now and the information we have obtained here is fantastic. Now for the bad news. Just when we really started getting into this, and joining sites to meet couples, I found a wart on my penis. Freaking out I immediately went to my doctor, but was told it is nothing to freak out about as it is very common, however he suggested my wife get checked out because it causes more problems for women. Well she checked out fine and somehow doesn't have the virus. Also I would like to note that I have not been with any other person for the last eight years besides my wife. Which means I have had this for a long time with no outbreak until now. The cream I was prescribed didn't work so I went back to the doctor and had it removed with nitrogen. My question is will the scar be there forever now? It looks so bad, imo, and I wonder what other's will think if they ever see it. If and when we ever get involved with other's sexually I do plan on disclosing the fact that I have HPV but my penis looks so ugly now.

[weplay 20]

As someone who understands virology and has read the literature, I DO think once you have HPV you do eventually develop and immunity to it and are no longer contagious.

 

HPV is not like herpes which hides in the nerve cells. That is why herpes never 100% goes away, it lies dormant in cells the immune system won't attack.

 

The problem with HPV is that not everyone develops warts and that early in the outbreak even if they will develop them they are not very noticeable.

 

This is a gross example of misinformation. This person also said earlier in the thread that HPV is curable.

 

In all the professional information available on HPV, nowhere does it say HPV is curable or that one can expect to build immunity.

 

Indeed, we know that there is no cure--only treatments--for HPV. In some cases, especially in younger women, the effect of the disease may clear, but there is no science to suggest that one can then enjoy an immunity from it.

 

This is an epidemic, folks. It is everywhere. We are living proof that it isn't' hard to come in contact with it. The fact that most of the swinger community is in denial or ignoring it does not help matters.

 

And people who opine on this subject really ought to know what they're talking about before they post. Of course, the OP is welcome to post scientific documentation to support his assertions in order to shut me up.

[Chicup 41]

weplay said:

This is a gross example of misinformation. This person also said earlier in the thread that HPV is curable.

 

In all the professional information available on HPV, nowhere does it say HPV is curable or that one can expect to build immunity.

 

Indeed, we know that there is no cure--only treatments--for HPV. In some cases, especially in younger women, the effect of the disease may clear, but there is no science to suggest that one can then enjoy an immunity from it.

 

This is an epidemic, folks. It is everywhere. We are living proof that it isn't hard to come in contact with it. The fact that most of the swinger community is in denial or ignoring it does not help matters.

 

And people who opine on this subject really ought to know what they're talking about before they post. Of course, the OP is welcome to post scientific documentation to support his assertions in order to shut me up.

 

"Studies have shown that 70% of new HPV infections clear within one year, as many as 91% clear within two years. The median duration of new infections is typically eight months. HPV-16 is more likely to persist than other HPV types; however most HPV-16 infections become undetectable within two years. The gradual development of an effective immune response is thought to be the likely mechanism for HPV DNA clearance." -CDC

 

"Most people (up to 90%) who test positive for HPV with very sensitive tests for HPV (polymerase chain reaction [PCR] and Hybrid Capture® II) will become HPV negative on the same tests within 6-24 months from first testing positive. This is due to an effective immune response to HPV." - ARHP

 

"Experts no longer think that HPV is a chronic lifetime virus. HPV infections of the anogenital tract are usually transient and cleared to undetectable levels in short duration. Low-risk HPV infections spontaneously clear more readily than high-risk types." - Human Papillomavirus and Cervical Cancer

 

Ok thanks for playing.

[weplay 20]

You're welcome. I think you've conceded my point. Some of these infections will clear, but not all. High-risk infections of HPV are more difficult to clear... and those are potentially morbid. --CDC

 

And there is still nothing in your cites to support an assertion that one becomes immune after an HPV infection. An effective immune system will succeed in battling the effects of the virus in most cases. However, the virus signature apparently remains in the DNA chain, ready to awaken at any time.

 

To make the wholesale statement that HPV is curable is misleading, even though for most women, effects seem to disappear in time. There are many, many strains of HPV, some of which pose real cancer threats.

 

You claim to be well read on the subject. It would seem prudent, then, to not create the illusion that "this is no big deal". Women need to be vigilant in getting annuals. More important, we must, MUST practice safe sex outside of our marriages. To suggest that a little HPV is good for training one's immune system seems downright foolish.

 

FWIW, it tend to take CDC information lightly. They tend to be agenda-driven; that agenda being to benefit their federal funding. I digest carefully their positions.

 

And, clearly, the jury is still out on the potential morbidity of HPV.

[StewartP 171]

Sharing of knowledge in this subject is important and helpful.

 

Chicup, could you please also give your sources or links? The quotes by themselves, while interesting are not much use if they are not verifiable. They may be from anti-vaccination sites or otherwise untrustworthy.

 

I'm NOT saying they are, just that without the source there is no way for us to judge the validity of the quote.

 

When I googled using the text of the quote, most of the hits were from forums like this one reposting the statements. Again this would be equally untrustworthy, we would need to see the original paper so we can validate its authors and the journal it was published in.

 

I'm not having a go, just trying to unmuddy waters.

[km34 672]

More important, we must, MUST practice safe sex outside of our marriages. To suggest that a little HPV is good for training one's immune system seems downright foolish.

 

While I agree with this statement, I hope you realize that 'safe sex' isn't really safe when it comes to HPV. It is generally accepted HPV can be spread by skin to skin contact outside of a condom's protected area. So, yes, a condom will LOWER YOUR RISK of catching HPV and other STI's, but it is not fool-proof. No matter what, sex is a risk. You have to decide whether it's worth it.

[weplay 20]

It is generally accepted HPV can be spread by skin to skin contact outside of a condom's protected area. So, yes, a condom will LOWER YOUR RISK of catching HPV and other STI's, but it is not fool-proof. No matter what, sex is a risk. You have to decide whether it's worth it.

 

Well said. And yes, we know that the virus is spread by skin-to-skin contact.

 

The risk is obviously much greater than we understood going into this. Much greater.

[Lascivious L&L 866]

Weplay, while it's understandable that you're having a negative reaction to all this information on HPV, your reaction has lead you to create a negative characterization of what Chicup posted. You categorized him as saying HPV was not a big deal. I didn't read that. He did say HPV can be cured and backed that up with information (which I've seen elsewhere) that it becomes undetectable after time. That is an accepted definition of cured. He also differentiated HPV from herpes as to its lifetime in the body.

 

I feel that your characterization of Chicup's post as a gross example of misinformation is completely inaccurate. Chicup has offered good information, supported in the other thread on HPV, as well as an interesting and thoughtful take on the latest findings. His interpretation that the immune system clears (cures) HPV from the body is supported by others in the field.

 

The important point is that HPV is not new. Your familiarity with what we know about HPV may be new. Much of this information on HPV is relatively new. But the virus has very likely been with us forever. Thus dealing with HPV is not new even if the knowledge we now have is. HPV is the rule, not the exception and has always been.

 

Again, while it's understandable to be surprised by this knowledge and react to it, lashing out at those you disagree with or who interpret the same knowledge differently helps no one and may put you in a negative light.

[weplay 20]

Thank you for you comments, Lascivious. I set out to dispute two statements made by Chicup in this thread. Wasn't meant as an attack (this is a discussion forum).

 

I suppose the word cured can be interpreted differently. To me, cured means the virus has left the body, never to rear it's ugly head again. I've found nothing to suggest that:

 

One eventually becomes non-contagious

HPV leaves the body and, hence, a woman is never again affected by it.

 

It appears that, in the case of high-risk (cancer causing) HPV, the virus can attack the cervix again, even years after diagnosis and treatment. This abnormal cell growth can become cancer. Even after symptoms become undetectable (i.e., normal paps), they can again occur.

 

So, cured? I disagree, based on what I've read. Indeed, there are many web articles that make the opposite claim, that HPV is incurable.

 

Chicup also made this statement:

 

"As someone who understands virology and has read the literature, I DO think once you have HPV you do eventually develop and (sic) immunity to it and are no longer contagious."

 

Again, I've found nothing, including the cites he offered, to support his belief. Simply, and considering that this forum is where many in our hobby are going to look as they research after a HPV diagnosis, I believe over-the-top statements such as this deserve to be checked.

 

No attack. Just my contribution to the discussion.

 

There is plenty of web information on HPV but it is hardly consistent across documents. Obviously, medical science is still climbing the HPV learning curve.

[Chicup 41]

*and without much desire I re-enter this thread*

 

Weplay perhaps the most difficult thing after stating a strong opinion is to then state you were wrong. I'd love to make this easy and say I was wrong, but unfortunately I was not, so admitting that will have to be up to you.

 

Weplay the issue with cervical cancer is that the damage is done by the virus remains there for some time. This is why a LEEP procedure is recommended even if the outbreak is still active. The LEEP procedure removes the out layer of skin inside the cervical canal. This is also believed to stimulate the immune response to the virus and help speed its elimination.

 

Even in women who do not have the LEEP, most will spontaneously cure themselves with their own immune system. It is only in a small % of women, who usually have other risk factors (like smoking or a weak immune system) that it progresses into cancer.

 

Perhaps you don't know what PCR means but to put it in layman's terms it is a way to identify VERY small amounts of DNA in a sample. What PCR negative means is that the DNA for the virus is no longer present. What that means is that you are 'cured' as in you don't have it anymore. Much like a flu.

 

So unless you have some original research which shows HPV hides in selected sites like HSV, then you are just going to have to trust me, and just about every source on the internet.

 

P.S. They use the PCR test for HSV diagnosis.

[tribbles 490]

Update on HIV testing from King County WA - this part caught my eye:

 

Quote

Viral load testing has become a standard method of monitoring viral activity and is used to monitor the success of antiviral treatment. Results from viral load tests can range from "undetectable" to over a million copies per milliliter of blood. Lower numbers mean fewer viruses in the blood and less active disease; higher numbers mean more viruses in the blood and more active disease. The goal of antiviral treatment is to substantially reduce the viral load. Viral load tests are used to determine when to start treatment and when to change or stop treatment. An "undetectable" viral load does not mean that the person is free of HIV infection. Most viral load tests can only detect down to the level of 40 viral particles per milliliter of blood. Thus "undetectable" means less virus per milliliter than this test can measure (e.g., up to 39 viral copies per milliliter.)

 

Does science know the HPV viral levels PCR detects up to? Is it possible undetectable HPV is like HIV...still there but not detected via even the PCR test?

 

Also when they do PCR for HPV is it blood or a swab from the cervix?

 

I too, hesitate to think 'cured' simply cuz...what if that's wrong? It may be what science thinks now but science has found it was wrong before!

 

I lean toward thinking if someone is that concerned about HPV, don't swing. Period. Go to a club and just play together for sexy fun.

 

If I do someone with it today, how long till a test would even show positive? (Assume I actually get infected...can I get a test next week? next month? 6 months? YEARS? when for sure? A friend in a monogamous relationship tested positive for HPV after 6 years...we both looked and even her doc told her, yep, she could have gotten it from before she was with her partner or he gave it to her at some point. And no, it didn't mean he cheated. Yikes! Was that doc wrong?

 

And how many people can I play with and infect in that time I have it but don't test positive? It's done once a year with a pap now? And some things I'm reading are suggesting paps go to every THREE years? (For me, personally, they don't do a test...I have no cervix due to surgery years ago).

 

IMHO, the biggest threat out there for swingers is HPV. (Not actually the HPV but cuz it IS a virus that may lead to cancer).

 

But something has to kill me someday and before that day...I'm going to enjoy the things I enjoy.

 

Only you can decide your risk level.

[Lascivious L&L 866]

Weplay, you used the word "attack" to characterize what your post wasn't; I did not. I used the words "negative reaction", "negative characterization", and "inaccurate". I felt you emotionally mis-characterized what Chicup posted and feel such emotions during a discussion need to be clearly noted in order to keep it a discussion rather than devolving into emotional attack.

 

Much of the reactions posted within this thread are provoked by the newness of our knowledge on viruses rather than any change in the infection itself. HPV has been with us forever. Most of us have been infected by at least one strain. Being able to detect the virus is new. How accurate such new technology is at pronouncing infection or the clearing of the virus is the subject of discussion in the field. Using the word cured is not an easy judgment, so displaying negative emotions toward such difficult judgments in this discussion helps no one.

 

What I've read of HPV leads me to judge similarly to Chicup that the word cured may be applied to particular circumstances. Our understanding of how our bodies deal with the many viruses we face has changed dramatically. To hold words such as cured to absolutes doesn't work, because the constant exposure to viruses such as HPV renders an absolute cure, if there is one, momentary.

 

We may use the word cured for chicken pox, meaning the manifestation "chicken pox" is over and not meaning that the virus is completely removed from our bodies. Shingles is a different manifestation of that virus years or decades later. Yet shingles is not chicken pox.

[rainbowskye 102]

I have had the chicken pox twice in my life. At five and again at seven.

 

During a stressful time in my life, I broke out in the shingles They hurt worse than the chicken pox did, and look similar.

 

What I learned is that the varicella zoster virus that causes chicken pox lays dormant in the body, when the virus becomes active again you break out in shingles which is a small to large patch on one side of your body. IF you are in the middle of an outbreak and come in contact with someone who has never has the chicken pox or the chicken pox vaccine , they can catch the virus and break out in the chicken pox.

 

My boss at the time had never had the chicken pox or the vaccine and he refused to let me miss work. within 7 days he was covered head to toe with the chicken pox.

 

Now having the chicken pox twice was what i consider a freak occurrence. while i will always have the virus dormant in my nervous system, i consider my self cured from having them chicken pox.

 

Having a weak immune system, and knowing the zoster virus is hibernating in my nervous system I can't say i feel cured from the shingles. Most people have only one shingles outbreak. I have had two. one outbreak was on the left side of my lower back and the other was the right side of my face.

[Palladin 36]

SabrinaSwings said:

I recently read about a suspected link between an increase in throat and oral cancer in men with an increase in oral sex. Basically that HPV is causing cancer in men who perform oral sex. Just another thing to worry about when trying to enjoy oral sex!

 

I think I read a similar study in the Swedish newspapers a few years ago. I should have been dead years ago! This is my specialty! My passion!

[IEcouple 222]

The chickenpox comparison is a good one for herpes, but not for HPV. Chickenpox and shingles are, in fact, caused by a virus in the same family as herpes. Both lie dormant at the base of nerves until the immune system is weakened. What looks like a skin disease is really a nerve disease. The sores (or pox) appear at the end of the nerves and the nerve endings that are just under the skin get sores. That's why you can also get chickenpox in your mouth or inside your eye.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that the increased risk for cervical cancer for women and oral cancer in men is years or decades in the making. If you've been sexually active for more than a decade and have had multiple partners, then you have more than likely already been infected with HPV and your body has eradicated it from your system. You may have gotten HPV multiple times without knowing it.

 

If you've been sexually active for a long time, then you probably already have an increased long-term cancer risk. That cat is already out of the bag. Condoms probably aren't that helpful because you can get it through oral too. This is why it's an oral cancer risk in men. It's from going down on women who are infected with HPV. That's why the HPV vaccine hasn't been strongly recommended for middle-aged or older people. It's fairly expensive and the efficacy of vaccinating those people is low.

 

Keep in mind that "increased risk" still doesn't mean "high risk". You're far more likely to get cancer from smoking and other carcinogens than from HPV. The reason the HPV vaccine is a big deal is that these are cancers that can now be very safely prevented.

[highlander 21]

A friend of mine who used to work with CDC as a statistician said that one of the reasons the HPV vaccine got "fast tracked" was there was a measurable decrease in HIV infection rates among inner city girls who got the test vaccinations.

 

This article talks about a more formal field trial of that principal. Their study suggested a 36% decrease in HIV infection in a 42 month period. Herpes does something similar. Basically it is proving rather hard to produce an HIV vaccine-but if a HSV vaccine is combined with better HPV vaccines, a serious dent might be made in HIV transmission.

 

HIV death rates have been falling in developed countries because of medications like HAART-but there are still a LOT unknown in those medications-and new HIV infection rates and overall infections levels are high enough HIV is still a serious issue.

[CuriousNJCouple 38]

I know someone who had an abnormal pap test, and was diagnosed with HPV. Years later, after taking very good care of herself, she tests clean. She's been retested several times and still shows clean. Maybe the first test was in err? Don't know. All I can say for sure is that I'd prefer to err on the side of caution.

[km34 672]

I know someone who had an abnormal pap test, and was diagnosed with HPV. Years later, after taking very good care of herself, she tests clean. She's been retested several times and still shows clean. Maybe the first test was in err? Don't know. All I can say for sure is that I'd prefer to err on the side of caution.

 

The body naturally combats HPV so having an initial abnormal test that eventually clears is very common.

[highlander 21]

The body naturally combats HPV so having an initial abnormal test that eventually clears is very common.

 

There are many different strains of HPV. I wouldn't be surprised if this varies according to the strain and the individual.

[km34 672]

There are many different strains of HPV. I wouldn't be surprised if this varies according to the strain and the individual.

 

It does. Most bodies take care of it within 2 years, regardless of the strain. The two high-risk strains that Gardasil was formulated to protect against (16 and 18) can take longer, and people often have to have a few cells burned off if their bodies can't clear it fast enough just to be on the safe side. People with auto-immune issues, compromised immune systems due to chemo and the like, etc. are also more likely to take longer and/or need procedures to remove cells to prevent cancer.

 

Everyone I've known with HPV has had normal paps again after 6-18 months.

[ALilOEverything 901]

Recently I had a family member finish chemotherapy and radiation for head and neck cancer which was discovered to be HPV related. I work in oncology so I had a discussion about the relation with head and neck cancers with one of our oncologists and he said the prevalence could be much higher because not all head and neck cancers are tested for HPV. His reasoning for not testing is because it's an increase cost for the testing and even if it is HPV+ is does not change the course of treatment. He felt there was a good chance that many of our head and neck cancer patients have HPV related cancers, especially those who were nonsmokers.

 

I have to admit it's made me rethink my risk factors if could I live with the consequences. I mitigated the risks the different STDs before entering the lifestyle but I didn't consider other HPV cancers (can cause anal cancer too). Unfortunately due to the nature of my job I see the treatment involved and know how horrible the experience is for these patients. Knowing that HPV generally is cleared by our own immune system is helpful but I think a person still has to consider the of "what if it doesn't". Do your research and understand that HPV is not completely benign and not all HPV cancers have routine screenings.

[highlander 21]

I found the Cure Magazine article to be interesting-and I felt like I learned something.

 

I checked around and found some statistics. Apparently Head/neck/throat cancers are increasing (about 25% the last few decades in the UK).

 

With 150 strains of HPV the overall knowledge here seems pretty basic. Condoms appear to help-but they seem far from a silver bullet-and testing seems in a pretty basic stage.

 

I think we need to keep a perspective here though. Overall incidence of these cancers is 1/93 or so. I'm not sure how much the decision to swing or not really affects that risk. There are a lot of factors in play too.

 

My guess is this means if you do choose to swing, it would be a good idea to pay close attention to your overall health