Should my husband be seen as a single since I don't play?

[little firefly 64]

Hi all! I have a question that I need some opinions on. He and I are on another swing site that most of its members are in our general area and a lot of those attend the swingers club that we go to. I received a rather mean spirited email from a couple (I'm not sure if it was the man or woman who wrote it) saying that I have no business going to an on-premise club if I have no intention of any kind of play with anyone else, that my presence there upsets the atmosphere of open-minded adults there to have a good time. I could understand that if I was walking around spewing out hateful remarks about swingers or anything like that, but when I go I'm there having a good time too. I shoot pool, get in the hot tub with friends and play with him in the public playroom.

 

I was also told that I'm being selfish and holding him back from enjoying the lifestyle because I'm on his profile as part of a couple which is misleading because he plays as a single (it's on our profile in a couple of places including our headline that he swings but I don't so I've never even given the slightest impression that I'm interested in play). I was told that if he's going to have fun in the LS that I either need to stop being so uptight (I'm not uptight I'm just not a swinger) or that I need to totally let him go solo.

 

It's true that it's been difficult for him to find playmates. Most couples we've come to know want full swap with other couples or they want that elusive unicorn for FFM play. He's had a chance to play a couple of times with couples wanting a MFM and really enjoyed it.

 

I'm just really wondering now if I AM holding him back from having fun? I do want him to enjoy the LS (I'm still not 100% comfortable with it but I'm honestly getting there albeit a bit slowly) so I'm not sure what to do. Part of me thinks that I should just let him have his own profile as a single and that I should let him go to the club alone, but I know that I enjoy going to the club with him and having a fun night out together.

 

That email was really upsetting to me. I'm pretty sure that it was written by a couple who go to the club (although there were no face pics so I don't know who they are). I just need some advice on what I should do. Do I let him be seen as single or do I keep things the way they are with us being a couple but only him being open to play? I want him to be able to get the most out of the LS.

[TNT 1,155]

The truth of the matter is, he's not going to get as much out of swinging being an attached male whose SO does not play, as he would if he were truly a single male.

 

It's also true that each couple makes of swinging what THEY want, not what someone else thinks it should be.

 

Should you let him be seen as single when he's really not? I think that's a question only you two can answer. If he advertises as single, chances are he will get more opportunities to play, but is being dishonest about his attachment status what you and he want to do? Or, would you rather be honest, state how it is between you two and enjoy playing with those that know your arrangement and are okay with it?

 

Personally, I would rather be honest and play with those who are okay with our rules/agreement/arrangement and not give a second thought to those who aren't.

[sexcupid 809]

Perhaps they feel it is misleading b/c it is listed as a couples profile? For example, locally on SLS there are a few couples that also have singles profiles. Either because they were singles that met in the LS and are now a couple or b/c they partner up to go to events. And the couples profile usually says "We have singles profiles and those usernames are XXXXX and XXXXXX". So perhaps he could list a SM profile that references back to your couples profile to see that he is a legitimately attached/playing with permission male (but again you may run into those that either don't want you watching or inadvertently try to get you in on the group play). Do what it is you are comfortable with.

 

More misleading IMO are the single guys that list themselves as a couples profile to turn up on more searches, since many of couples block single male profiles from even looking at theirs....or the SF profile that conveniently states she has a hubby/BF that wants to watch them and join in...but because a lot of people search specifically for SF profiles, it is likely to turn up in more searches.

 

As for the email you received, sure it was hurtful...but you don't know who sent it. But from some of your other postings here, its not like these sort of things haven't been said to your face at the club. Heck some couples may view it as a bait and switch type of thing (regardless of the words coming out of your or his mouth...people hear and see what they want). Whereas we see postings here about some hot bi-fem hitting it off with the wife/couple and once they are in the room, then here comes her hubby that the wife wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole...perhaps people are seeing it as sort of a reverse bait and switch...he has you to 'lure' in the couples and then presto...you don't play...and they don't necessarily want to play with a SM.

 

There have been times that I think we have all wondered if we are hindering our partner's enjoyment/opportunities for whatever reason, I know I have. But overall I tend to look on our LS activities at best as a hobby we occasionally engage in...and if someone has a problem with the way we do it vs the way they do it...well they can just go piss off.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

No matter how you and him decide to work this, you will have roadblocks due to your unique arrangement. The email you received from that couple was hurtful, and I don't think they needed to send it. However, I do feel other couples who both swing feel as they do - not every swinging couple, but many do - they just won't speak up.

 

little firefly, you can continue to not swing, he can keep his couple profile, but be ready to thicken your skin, because you'll get bashed by some people, however subtle, and it won't feel good. You'll have to decide how much is too much to take. Eventually you may feel that being involved in the lifestyle as you presently are is not fun.

 

I have seen married/committed men who have permission to play alone set up a "single male" profile and I think that is the better way to go as long as he makes it clear in his profile that he has a partner who doesn't swing but sometimes joins him at the clubs to socialize...,etc.

 

I suggest this approach because if my husband and I wanted to find a single male to join us we'd search the "single male" profiles. Same with couples profiles, when I look at those I want a couple to play with us, and opening a couple profile only to read that the man's wife/SO doesn't play would not sit right with me. People put in searches to find what they want, if you aren't playing as a couple, don't list him as a couple. That's this woman's opinion.

 

Even listed as a single male, attached, but with permission to play is going to be difficult. Once people find out you like to hang out with the swingers but not participate in play with swingers, people may not contact him. Even if you decide to never be involved in the swinging environment and let him out all alone, it may be difficult for him to find playmates, it's just the way it can be for males playing alone.

 

As genuine, truthful, kind, sexy, and likable a couple can be, the swinging lifestyle can be hard on couples where one plays and the other just hangs around or only plays with their own mate.

[DigginIt 1,132]

My personal opinion is that the couple that sent you that email are a couple of jackasses.

 

Little Firefly, I agree 100% with what TNT said above. It may be more difficult for your husband to find play partners with your unique situation but the fact of the matter is you are there supporting your husband.

 

If anything, I would bill it as you are the cheering section and that you find it hot watching him, etc. Build it up that while you don't play, your not a party pooper sitting on the sidelines watching the clock.

 

I don't recall, I've read all of your posts, but do you participate at all? Even if it's just kissing your husband or playing with his cock some when changing between positions for instance?

 

You and your husband have rules and regardless what they are, anyone who doesn't like them or respect them has the right to move the fu@k out and should do so without passing judgement on that couple.

 

My thoughts!

[little firefly 64]

I don't recall, I've read all of your posts, but do you participate at all? Even if it's just kissing your husband or playing with his cock some when changing between positions for instance?

 

Whenever he's playing with another couple I just sit somewhere else and watch along with others in the playroom who are watching. I don't want my participating in any way with him to be seen as my willing to play with the other couple. I'm happy to just let him have fun while I watch...And after he's finished playing with them and if he has the energy left then I have my turn, lol

 

I do appreciate all the opinions. I think maybe a separate single profile for him linking back to the one of us might be the way to go. Thanks everyone!

[little firefly 64]

perhaps people are seeing it as sort of a reverse bait and switch...he has you to 'lure' in the couples and then presto...you don't play...and they don't necessarily want to play with a SM.

 

That's possible but I really don't see how they could. From the moment a couple engages us in any kind of conversation we let it slip into the convo that I don't play but that he's more than welcome to. One couple took us up on that offer and he had a great time.

[little firefly 64]

little firefly, you can continue to not swing, he can keep his couple profile, but be ready to thicken your skin, because you'll get bashed by some people, however subtle, and it won't feel good.

 

So much for people in alternative lifestyles not being judgmental!! And please believe me when I say I'm not saying that against just against those in the swinger LS who are that way. I mean that against ANYONE in any alternative LS (including the BDSM one which I'm a part of) who bashes anyone who doesn't see things the same way they do or live the same way they do (kind of reminds me of how a great deal of the vanilla community acts)

[bbarnsworth 2,643]

Hi all! I have a question that I need some opinions on. He and I are on another swing site that most of its members are in our general area and a lot of those attend the swingers club that we go to. I received a rather mean spirited email from a couple (I'm not sure if it was the man or woman who wrote it) saying that I have no business going to an on premise club if I have no intention of any kind of play with anyone else, that my presence there upsets the atmosphere of open minded adults there to have a good time.

 

Wow. *wow* I agree with DigginIt. These people are jackasses.

 

How many other places do people go to and not do what the primary purpose of that place is? Are you forced to have an alcoholic drink if you go to a bar or else face the wrath of everyone who does imbibe? Unreal attitude on the part of these people.

 

If I were your husband, I'd *want* you there. Why? Because I'm not going to lie to a couple and tell them I'm a single male. If I tell them I'm married, most couples are going to ask for proof of permission from my wife. The fact you are there means it is far more likely he'll have a chance to play with other couples.

 

Also, just because a couple shows up at a swingers club doesn't mean they have to play with anyone, nor does there have to be a chance they will play with anyone. Some couples like to go for the atmosphere, to watch others have sex, to talk with open minded people, to have sex in front of other people. None of that requires you to swap partners with someone else. The fact that your husband can play with others is a bonus, not a detriment.

 

The bottom line here is that couple is way out of line.

 

As for making a single male profile; I think this is a good idea, so long as it's made very clear that he is married, and playing with permission. Further, that said permission is readily available for anyone asking and you (the wife) are happy to provide it, over the phone, in person, what have you. Having such a profile will increase his opportunities for play. As is, as others have noted, his chances are pretty limited through online sources since most people looking for single males to play with aren't looking at couples to do so.

 

My wife and I happily entertain single males, or married males playing with permission. So far, she hasn't played with a married male playing single. There's been a couple of offers, but both flaked as soon as we asked for proof of permission. If you had a single profile noting permission was readily available, and all else being fine, we'd probably contact you. We've said this before in other threads.

 

Don't ever let anyone anyone pressure you into doing more than you want. If you don't want to play with someone else, that's perfectly, absolutely, 100% fine. Whether you eventually do so or not is of no matter, no concern. So far as I'm concerned, you're very welcome in the lifestyle. I'd be quite happy to sit with you, chat with you, while your husband has sex with my wife. It'd be a very enjoyable experience. There's plenty of room for that in the lifestyle. Anyone sending a letter like the one you received is effectively clueless. Fun doesn't come in one size fits all.

[little firefly 64]

How many other places do people go to and not do what the primary purpose of that place is? Are you forced to have an alcoholic drink if you go to a bar or else face the wrath of everyone who does imbibe? Unreal attitude on the part of these people.

 

LOL, I never thought of that but definitely true!

 

If I were your husband, I'd *want* you there. Why? Because I'm not going to lie to a couple and tell them I'm a single male. If I tell them I'm married, most couples are going to ask for proof of permission from my wife. The fact you are there means it is far more likely he'll have a chance to play with other couples.

 

That's the way I had seen it as well. I mean with me there to give the ok then the other couple knows for sure that they aren't getting a cheating spouse!

 

Some couples like to go for the atmosphere, to watch others have sex, to talk with open minded people, to have sex in front of other people.

 

That's why I enjoy it. I love the exhibitionist and voyeuristic aspect of being there

 

Thanks bb, you've sure helped make me feel better!!

[SecretAsianMan 348]

If he *does* create a single-guy profile... then he's going to take all the crap from people accusing him of being misleading in his profile since he has a S/O and others who'll immediately assume he's cheating on his S/O because he's now selling himself as "single/unattached"

 

I say - keep your "couple" profile (from what you've said - you've more than clearly stated that he's the only one in the pair who'll play).

 

No matter what you do - SOMEONE is going to have issues with it. (Despite how "open" the people in the lifestyle are ... there are still a LOT of immature / drama riddled -folk who'll never be happy because everyone isn't doing it THEIR way)

[VegasLee 1,486]

Few things to get real about here.

 

First off, the email came from a nobody in your life so don't let it upset you at all. They are no more then a pixel on the Internet. As stated above, you need to get thick skin and forget about the nonsense that will come your way.

 

As far as being at the club goes, there are many, many, MANY people that go to Swingers clubs and conventions that ARE NOT swingers. They are there for their own reason just as you are.

 

Be very up front with people that talk to you at a club, you are not here to play, period, right up front. No use wasting there time or yours.

 

As far as people in this lifestyle or any other lifestyle being less judgmental, where did you get that? People in any lifestyle are still just people. They are not more open minded or less judgmental at all. They are just "different minded."

 

There are going to be people in person and on the Internet that are going to have things to say to your face, behind your back and otherwise. If they have no direct connection to your life in general then don't let them have the power to effect you or your moods. They are not worth it.

 

I have read many of your posts since you came here. Personally I feel you attempt to bring some of this upon yourself. I think you need to figure out just what works for you and yours and go with it and stop nit picking it do death. You have put yourself into situations that did not work out and it hurt you or made you upset. Don't do it. Keep it simple.

 

If he wants to play and you want to allow it, then do it. KEEP IT SIMPLE.

 

I hope it all works out for you and him.

[exploringRM 305]

Since you are part of the encounter, though just watching or nearby, then a couples profile should be ok. If someone contacted you and you went to meet them..do you go as a couple? If so then couple it is. If though he heads out on his own for solo play instead of both of you involved somehow (you don't play but you still are involved) then I think a couples profile would be misleading.

[little firefly 64]

Be very up front with people that talk to you at a club, you are not here to play, period, right up front. No use wasting there time or yours.

 

Believe me I do. That's always one of the first things I mention whenever anyone engages me in conversation.

 

As far as people in this lifestyle or any other lifestyle being less judgmental, where did you get that?

 

I got that from several people in the LS who were trying to educate me on the way lifestylers think. I've been told that since they don't live or think as vanillas do that they don't judge people as vanilla society would....I've seen this mindset in the BDSM lifestyle (as I stated I'm a part of) as well.

 

I have read many of your posts since you came here. Personally I feel you attempt to bring some of this upon yourself.

 

Honestly that is not what I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to navigate my way through a lifestyle that is foreign to me...And not doing so very well I guess.

 

 

I hope it all works out for you and him.

 

I'm sure that it will one way or another. Thank you, and I do appreciate all the advice.

[The Fuse 1,012]

My take on the profile is this: we look at profiles to find potential playmates. Since he is playing and you're not, I feel that puts him in the category of "single" for play purposes. So, he should have a single male profile. He can clarify within the profile that he has a non-playing SO who will give permission and be present.

 

This is, of course, my biased view as someone who looks at couples profiles to find couples who play. Your situation doesn't fit into an easy category, so some people will find that beyond their ability to deal with. But for swinging purposes, my opinion is that he is more like a single than part of a couple. Either way, you have to explain yourselves, but I think the single category is more descriptive in the context of swinging. I mean no disrespect to your actual, real-life status as a couple.

[little firefly 64]

My take on the profile is this: we look at profiles to find potential playmates. Since he is playing and you're not, I feel that puts him in the category of "single" for play purposes. So, he should have a single male profile. He can clarify within the profile that he has a non-playing SO who will give permission and be present.

 

This is, of course, my biased view as someone who looks at couples profiles to find couples who play. Your situation doesn't fit into an easy category, so some people will find that beyond their ability to deal with. But for swinging purposes, my opinion is that he is more like a single than part of a couple. Either way, you have to explain yourselves, but I think the single category is more descriptive in the context of swinging. I mean no disrespect to your actual, real-life status as a couple.

 

I take no offense at all to what you said, that's why I had asked for opinions. What you say really makes sense. My only purpose is to make sure he gets the most fun out of the lifestyle that he can. He had enjoyed it so much in the past before I came along and I want him to continue to be able to have a good time. I just needed to know the best way to go about putting him out there as a potential playmate. Thank you very much!

[interested-05 135]

Simply put, it is their way of pressuring you into playing. They want to fuck you too, and are pissed off that you won't join in. It is their problem not yours.

[Newpants 21]

My only purpose is to make sure he gets the most fun out of the lifestyle that he can. He had enjoyed it so much in the past before I came along and I want him to continue to be able to have a good time. I just needed to know the best way to go about putting him out there as a potential playmate. Thank you very much!

 

So far you haven't mentioned what your SO's thoughts and wishes are in this. Is he perfectly OK and satisfied with your situation or is he experiencing dissatisfaction and frustration in this? Also, are you truly comfortable and having a good time in the lifestyle or are you just going along to appease him? I'm not you, but personally I would really feel like a 3rd wheel or a lead weight if I was going to clubs and just sitting on the sidelines. Are you actually comfortable with this or is it causing you distress and discomfort?

 

I'll be blunt here but it's not meant to be malicious, Yes, you are holding your SO back and yes he will be able to have sex with more people as a single guy without you in the picture. By the same token he is holding you back and you will be able to have sex with more people if he wasn't in the picture. When people enter into a relationship/marriage their opportunities for sex with other people decrease. In the rest of the world that is accepted and assumed. In the swinging community people sometimes struggle with that concept.

 

What swinging attempts to do is balance the concepts of having sex with a variety of people while still being in a bonded relationship. You two are not in balance and IMHO their are a lot more issues here than if someone should have a single profile or not.

 

From what I see you are not swinging, you are just tagging along while your SO tries to score and I don't see what it is you are getting out of it or how it is benefiting you, your SO or your relationship.

 

If your SO is wanting to have sex with as many other people as he can then it IS in his best interests to have a single male profile. If he wants to maximize his sexual opportunities with lots and lots of people then it is in his best interests to not be in a relationship with you at all. If deep down you are wanting to have a traditional, monogamous relationship then it is in your best interests to not be going to swinger clubs and not be in a relationship with someone who wants to be a swinger. Your best interests would be served by being in a relationship with someone who also desires to be in a monogamous, traditional relationship.

 

I think if you were both OK with this we wouldn't even be having this conversation. There are lots of people that have both a singles profile and a couples profile and it works for them. I think there may be some relationship issues here that need to be addressed more than whether he should have a single profile or not.

 

I'm not saying that you two are not right for each other or that you should split up over this. I am saying that you have some very deep, fundamental core issues that you two need to sit down and discuss very thoroughly. You both need to do some soul-searching and be very honest with yourself as well as with each other as to what kind of relationship you want to have and if swinging is going to play any role in that or not, and if so how you will work it out so that it is comfortable and workable for each of you.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

From what I see you are not swinging, you are just tagging along while your SO tries to score and I don't see what it is you are getting out of it or how it is benifitting you, your SO or your relationship.

This is a great point, and if members haven't been following along with little firefly's previous threads/posts they may not be aware of her general nature and how it plays a role in what she's getting out of this:

 

...In all my relationships I've always been submissive to my partner. I always put their wants above my own even if it causes me discomfort. I know that's my own hangup but I've never known any other way to be.

 

...Please everyone try to understand, not being a swinger myself, giving him the ok to play with anyone else is a big deal for me and one that I don't think many other monogamous women (or men) would be willing to do.

 

We're from two different worlds and as hard as I'm trying and as much as I want to spend the rest of my life with him, I don't know if those worlds can be merged successfully...

 

You are 39 years old, were married 15 years, divorced for 5 years, before you met him. You and him are into BDSM and you've said somewhere (I can't find the quote now) that you've allowed things done to you during BDSM play that many people never would allow (or some similar statement), what I'm pointing out is that you are submissive by nature and want to please. I think you want to please to the extreme, to the point where you would prefer to lose yourself than lose him.

 

I'm not personally familiar with the dynamics of couples like you and him. I am deriving my opinions of you from what you have written. Since I could never be so passive as you seem to be, it is hard for me to imagine being in your mindset.

 

As Newpants pointed out, there is more at the core of your situation than the issue of him swinging and your decision to remain monogamous. You don't want to swing, yet you want to keep him happy while keeping him on a leash that you hold (you need to okay his playmates), so in a way you are controlling this whole game. That's the twist that boggles me, yet, it may explain what you're getting out of all of this.

[little firefly 64]

So far you haven't mentioned what your SO's thoughts and wishes are in this. Is he perfectly OK and satisfied with your situation or is he experiencing dissatisfaction and frustration in this? Also, are you truly comfortable and having a good time in the lifestyle or are you just going along to appease him? I'm not you, but personally I would really feel like a 3rd wheel or a lead weight if I was going to clubs and just sitting on the sidelines. Are you actually comfortable with this or is it causing you distress and discomfort?

 

As far as him being ok and satisfied with it he's told me several times that yes, sometimes he does wish that I was in the LS so that could see me having fun as well but that he understands that I'm not and only wants to know that I'm ok with him playing. At first I was extremely uncomfortable with it but over time it's become easier for me and I have a good time talking and joking with our friends while he plays.

 

From what I see you are not swinging, you are just tagging along while your SO tries to score and I don't see what it is you are getting out of it or how it is benefiting you, your SO or your relationship.

 

The only benefit I get out of it is that I'm allowing him to have fun doing something that he's enjoyed for many years. I think it's important to not try to change who your mate is when you get into a relationship. I knew he was a swinger when I fell in love with him just as he knew I wasn't. It's good for me in a way to push my comfort boundaries to let him be who he is......Practicing what I preach I guess you could say.

 

I'm not saying that you two are not right for each other or that you should split up over this. I am saying that you have some very deep, fundamental core issues that you two need to sit down and discuss very thoroughly. You both need to do some soul-searching and be very honest with yourself as well as with each other as to what kind of relationship you want to have and if swinging is going to play any role in that or not, and if so how you will work it out so that it is comfortable and workable for each of you.

 

I know that if I asked him to that he would give up swinging. We've been talking a lot about things and working on making things workable to where I'm comfortable. The one thing that we do agree upon 100% at this point is that we are each others best lovers and very best friends. Neither of us can even imagine a life without the other.

 

Thank you for your honesty and bluntness. I always appreciate it

[little firefly 64]

You don't want to swing, yet you want to keep him happy while keeping him on a leash that you hold (you need to okay his playmates), so in a way you are controlling this whole game. That's the twist that boggles me, yet, it may explain what you're getting out of all of this.

 

I really don't see it as having him on a leash. I don't view it as being any different than full swap couples where they have a same room only rule. I basically have that same rule, I'm just choosing not to participate. It's a a way for me to be comfortable. I don't have to be somewhere else while he plays letting my mind wonder what is exactly is going on. I'm right there so I know for sure....The reality of things is usually not as bad as the imagination.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

You are voyeuristic, he's an exhibitionist... Seems like good balance to us

 

The thing is, do you become that couple who pushes their spouse on people ? We have had that vibe... Not implying you by any means, but we have had it happen.

 

Your making me think perhaps it was unintentional by them.

 

Do you think you give that vibe unintentionally? I think it would be easy on your part finding that balance you have, but what about keeping the balance, especially in a local social environment.

 

Just food for thought

[little firefly 64]

The thing is, do you become that couple who pushes their spouse on people ? We have had that vibe.... Not implying you by any means, but we have had it happen.

 

Oh gracious no. When we talk to new couples they know right away what our situation is. If they then seem interested in a MFM with him then we take it from there, if not then we've had a nice conversation and hopefully made new friends. We don't ever go to the club with any kind of expectation of him playing. If he gets lucky enough to then great, but if not then we have a fun time playing together......Mostly for us, going to the club is a way for us to have a night out together and hang out with friends. If he gets to play then it's considered an extra bonus for him but I would never even consider pushing him on anyone to make that happen....That's nothing but tasteless and low class in my opinion.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

If you are not going to play at all, then you profile should not list you as a couple, it should be a profile for a single male who states clearly in his profile that he is part of a couple but that she does not play but he has permission to do so (and she may be present at time of play even though she does not play).

 

As far as you going to the club with him, I don't see an issue in that but I can see where couples who see you there as a couple would get annoyed when they discover that you do not play. However, at the same time, your situation isn't much different than the number of couples who are only at the clubs looking to find another female to play with the female half while the guys watch (or worse, another female to play while HER guy stands on the side and watches a threesome that he's not invited to). If your roles were reversed everyone would love you, you'd be the belle of the ball.

[CXXC 435]

As far as you going to the club with him, I don't see an issue in that but I can see where couples who see you there as a couple would get annoyed when they discover that you do not play. However, at the same time, your situation isn't much different than the number of couples who are only at the clubs looking to find another female to play with the female half while the guys watch (or worse, another female to play while HER guy stands on the side and watches a threesome that he's not invited to). If your roles were reversed everyone would love you, you'd be the belle of the ball.

 

Julie, you beat me to it!

 

If she were the active one and he were not, this would hardly be an issue! If he just wanted to be in the room while another couple had fun with her, I don't think a single person would say Boo!

 

I don't think anyone would demand or request that she place a SF profile even if he was present at every event or activity!

 

Would anyone even be questioning what he got out of it? Would his motives be under the microscope? I don't think so. I think many people would look at her as a treasured find and go from there. They would finish by shaking his hand and thanking them both for a wonderful time!

 

I guess you could say the lifestyle is sexist! How odd!

[Additude 457]

In this situation be true and honest to yourself and others about what you do. Do what makes it work for you and him.

 

If other people who you are not associated with make issue with it, then so be it. Be glad for them that they were able to get their opinion off of their chest. Ignorance is bliss. Maybe they will have a better day on account of it.

 

But still do what is the best and what is right for you. You haven't done anything wrong.

[AskMeOk 148]

"Should my SO be seen as a single since I don't play?"

 

You're joking, right? If you don't have any intention of playing, HE *IS* A SINGLE!

 

While not intended on your part, this is clearly a "bait and switch," if you haven't made this PERFECTLY clear in your profile and *in person*... and I don't know of a good way to make this clear in a forthright, but tactful manner, if you are standing there as a couple.

 

Many clubs require *couples only* to make a reasonable effort to allow *everybody* to take part in play, without some or all of the women feeling like pin cushions. You are making this confusing to others.

 

Nobody should pressure you into playing, if you aren't interested. You aren't depriving him of anything. I don't make apologies for the woman that took you to task for that. She was just plain wrong. However, I can understand her frustration with a COUPLE of people showing up that aren't a couple of SWINGERS. That is just a reasonable assumption and it is up to you folks to make people aware that you march to the sound of your own drummer.

 

If you've met the letter of the law and gained entrance as a couple, but he is the only one playing, the "couples only" folks will soon deem him off limits.

 

Yeah, I know. My opinion.... YMMV.

[little firefly 64]

Julie, you beat me to it!

If she were the active one and he were not, this would hardly be an issue! If he just wanted to be in the room while another couple had fun with her, I dont think a single person would say Boo!

 

I don't think anyone would demand or request that she place a SF profile even if he was present at every event or activity!

 

Would anyone even be questioning what he got out of it? Would his motives be under the microscope? I don't think so. I think many people would look at her as a treasured find and go from there. They would finish by shaking his hand and thanking them both for a wonderful time!

 

I guess you could say the lifestyle is sexist! How odd!

 

Thank you!!! You don't know how much I appreciate you saying that!

[little firefly 64]

"Should my SO be seen as a single since I don't play?"

 

You're joking, right? If you don't have any intention of playing, HE *IS* A SINGLE!

 

While not intended on your part, this is clearly a "bait and switch," if you haven't made this PERFECTLY clear in your profile and *in person*... and I don't know of a good way to make this clear in a forthright, but tactful manner, if you are standing there as a couple.

 

Many clubs require *couples only* to make a reasonable effort to allow *everybody* to take part in play, without some or all of the women feeling like pin cushions. You are making this confusing to others.

 

Nobody should pressure you into playing, if you aren't interested. You aren't depriving him of anything. I don't make apologies for the woman that took you to task for that. She was just plain wrong. However, I can understand her frustration with a COUPLE of people showing up that aren't a couple of SWINGERS. That is just a reasonable assumption and it is up to you folks to make people aware that you march to the sound of your own drummer.

 

If you've met the letter of the law and gained entrance as a couple, but he is the only one playing, the "couples only" folks will soon deem him off limits.

 

Yeah, I know. My opinion.... YMMV.

 

It's made 100% crystal clear a couple of times in our profile (including the headline) that I don't play in any way whatsoever and whenever we meet and talk to new couples at the club it's stated up front that he plays but I don't. If they then choose to ask him to participate in a MFM with them then great! But if not that's ok, they can move on to another couple. We're not a "bait and switch" couple by any means. I don't ever give ANY kind of indication that I want to play. If that's confusing to anyone then it's their hangup not mine.....Heck, even if I WAS a swinger it doesn't mean it's a free for all...No still means no whether I'm a swinger or not and being very particular about who touches me then the no's would outweigh the yes's every time!.....As CXXC and Julie stated earlier, If the roles were reversed and I played but he didn't, then no one would even have an issue with it. We go to the club as a couple because we ARE a couple. I just choose to let him do the playing with others while I enjoy being voyeuristic about it. And as far as the "couples only" folks seeing him as off limits....I guess it's a good thing that there are couples who do enjoy playing with single guys...Maybe few and far between, but they're out there.

[AskMeOk 148]

Julie, you beat me to it!

 

If she were the active one and he were not, this would hardly be an issue!

 

 

I guess you could say the lifestyle is sexist! how odd!

 

There is no question about it... it IS sexist and will FOREVER remain sexist, until you have as many single women beating down the door to get in, as you do single men.

 

There is a reason single men are called legion and single women are called "unicorns."

[AskMeOk 148]

It's made 100% crystal clear a couple of times in our profile (including the headline) that I don't play in any way whatsoever and whenever we meet and talk to new couples at the club it's stated up front that he plays but I don't.

 

Your profile is clearly written. Then, if in person, you both have stated that up front, I would ignore the email. Some people chose odd battles to fight.

 

I don't ever give ANY kind of indication that I want to play.

 

Your very presence there gives that implicit indication. If I go to a swingers venue, I assume I'm surrounded by swingers. Is that my hangup? Speaking of what-ifs, would this misunderstanding have happened at "The Fortress" instead of "The Estate?"

 

I guess it's a good thing that there are couples who do enjoy playing with single guys...Maybe few and far between, but they're out there.

 

If you think they are hard to find? Try finding a single woman....

[twoforone100 45]

Your profile is clearly written. Then, if in person, you both have stated that up front, I would ignore the email. Some people chose odd battles to fight.

 

Your very presence there gives that implicit indication. If I go to a swingers venue, I assume I'm surrounded by swingers. Is that my hangup? Speaking of what-ifs, would this misunderstanding have happened at "The Fortress" instead of "The Estate?"

 

If you think they are hard to find? Try finding a single woman...

 

Are single males allowed at said club? If they are not, then you would seem like a ticket. If they allow single males, then I don't see a problem. If you are up front about as you have always said. Now on-line, I would tend to agree he is more like a single male rather than a couple. Does your profile have pics of you up?

[little firefly 64]

Your very presence there gives that implicit indication. If I go to a swingers venue, I assume I'm surrounded by swingers. Is that my hangup? Speaking of what-ifs, would this misunderstanding have happened at "The Fortress" instead of "The Estate?"

 

I know of several couples who go to the club where they are there for the wife to play with other women and have no interest in being with other guys....What if that was the case with us? Would it still be a problem?...I know nothing of The Fortress but we've been going to The Estate for a couple of years now, in fact we work there as hosts a couple of times a month. As I said before, even if I was a swinger it doesn't mean I would be required to play with every couple who shows an interest in me. I would only play if I had an interest in them as well...It just happens I don't have an interest in anyone except on a friendship level...And yes, if you assume that someone will play with you just because they are a swinger, then it is a hangup. Just because a place is full of swingers doesn't mean that everyone is there to play with just anyone. They all have personal preferences about who they want to have sex with.

[little firefly 64]

Are single males allowed at said club? If they are not, then you would seem like a ticket. If they allow single males then I don't see a problem. If you are up front about as you have always said. Now on-line, I would tend to agree he is more like a single male rather than a couple. Does your profile have pics of you up?

 

Single men are allowed in limited numbers on Friday nights and on Saturdays they only allow a select few single men into the club (Ones that they know aren't going to be running around fondling and groping every woman in site). Our profile has 6 pics up...5 of him and one of the two of us together.

[twoforone100 45]

Single men are allowed in limited numbers on Friday nights and on Saturdays they only allow a select few single men into the club (Ones that they know aren't going to be running around fondling and groping every woman in site). Our profile has 6 pics up...5 of him and one of the two of us together.

 

Then we don't really see a problem with it... We would agree the email was out of line. Don't let it get you down. All of the other advice along those lines we agree with as well.

[AskMeOk 148]

And yes, if you assume that someone will play with you just because they are a swinger, then it is a hangup. Just because a place is full of swingers doesn't mean that everyone is there to play with just anyone. They all have personal preferences about who they want to have sex with.

 

You don't mind putting words in another person's mouth, do you?

 

Yeah, I know of folks at the Estate that only play with each other, ever. That's called vanilla. If everybody felt that way, all swing clubs could be called The Holiday Inn.

 

If you folks are into Ds, you really need to talk the SO into taking you to the Fortress. It is a venue that would probably never incur the problems that you have found in a swinging venue and you both might find what you are looking for.

[little firefly 64]

You don't mind putting words in another person's mouth, do you?

 

Yeah, I know of folks at the Estate that only play with each other, ever. That's called vanilla. If everybody felt that way, all swing clubs could be called The Holiday Inn.

 

If you folks are into Ds, you really need to talk the SO into taking you to the Fortress. It is a venue that would probably never incur the problems that you have found in a swinging venue and you both might find what you are looking for.

 

The only problem I'm having is with that email I got and this thread seems to have gotten way off that subject. I happen to love The Estate. We've made some good friends there who have been nothing but great to me. I have a good time hanging out with them shooting pool having drinks and some good laughs. I think that The Estate has a place for everyone, soft swingers, full swap couples, girl on girl players AND those who only play with their SO's but in a sexual environment where they can indulge in voyeuristic and exhibitionist ways (both of which I enjoy). I don't think that just because I only play with him should mean that I have no business there.

[AskMeOk 148]

The only problem I'm having is with that email I got and this thread seems to have gotten way off that subject. I happen to love The Estate. We've made some good friends there who have been nothing but great to me. I have a good time hanging out with them shooting pool having drinks and some good laughs. I think that The Estate has a place for everyone, soft swingers, full swap couples, girl on girl players AND those who only play with their SO's but in a sexual environment where they can indulge in voyeuristic and exhibitionist ways (both of which I enjoy). I don't think that just because I only play with him should mean that I have no business there.

 

Either you missed it or I failed to make my point. I'll try one final time...

 

You asked for an opinion ("Do I let him be seen as single or do I keep things the way they are with us being a couple but only him being open to play?") and I gave you mine.

 

I think any person would define a single man as one that attends functions without a play partner... I think that honestly describes you. He is a single, since you don't play. The two of you should be permitted to attend and do whatever you want, while you are there, but to be honest, he is a single(and you are a single).

 

The club you attend has rules governing single men and you are circumventing those rules. If you admitted he was a single male player, it would limit the days he could attend and the parts of the club that he is permitted to enter.

 

Thus, IMHO, whether man or woman, any person coupled with one or one hundred other non-players is a single. If I wished to attend and found a disinterested female that would escort me through the door and then, just leave, I would accomplish the same result... I'm pretty sure that is not what management intended.

 

Anyway, the real point is: if management is OK with this, screw the person who emailed you, just carry on...

[little firefly 64]

I think any person would define a single man as one that attends functions without a play partner.... I think that honestly describes you. He is a single, since you don't play. The two of you should be permitted to attend and do whatever you want, while you are there, but to be honest, he is a single(and you are a single).

 

The club you attend has rules governing single men and you are circumventing those rules. If you admitted he was a single male player, it would limit the days he could attend and the parts of the club that he is permitted to enter.

 

Thus, IMHO, whether man or woman, any person coupled with one or one hundred other non-players is a single. If I wished to attend and found a disinterested female that would escort me through the door and then, just leave, I would accomplish the same result..... I'm pretty sure that is not what management intended

 

How are we circumventing the rules? Yes, he plays with others as a single (couples looking for a man to have MFM's) but he's half of a couple! (and everyone knows that!) I go there with him, as a couple and we spend time with our friends, as a couple. He goes anywhere in the club that he wishes because he HAS a play partner....ME! I don't go there just to be his ticket in the door. I'm there to be with and to PLAY with him. We go to the play area that is off limits to men without a female escort because he HAS a female escort...Again ME!! And while in that play area we play with each other....Doesn't seem to me that we're circumventing anything!

[AskMeOk 148]

I go there with him, as a couple

 

OK... that's your story, and you are sticking with it. Why ask advice? You've already made up your mind. If you are looking for affirmation, you just aren't going to find it here, with me.

 

If everybody attending that club had your position and your attitude... even YOU (and your SO) would have absolutely no interest in attending. Think about it.

 

That's it... have a nice day...

[DigginIt 1,132]

Your very presence there gives that implicit indication. If I go to a swingers venue, I assume I'm surrounded by swingers.

 

Is that my hangup? Speaking of what-ifs, would this misunderstanding have happened at "The Fortress" instead of "The Estate?"

 

I agree with you on your assumption but in context with all of your other posts you are assuming that everyone that are swingers, play the same way. There are swingers that like to just have sex in front of others. They don't even soft swap, they simply prefer to be voyeuristic, yet they are not considered any less swingers than those of us that like to jump in and pretzel up.

 

Back to you Firefly.

 

My personal opinion is that if you truly enjoy watching and you are getting something out of it, some kind of sexual fulfillment, when you are allowing your husband to participate then you should continue to bill yourselves as a couple with rules. "The playful husband and the voyeuristic wife."

 

Just because you prefer to simply watch doesn't mean that you should be attacked by those that don't share your ideas of what you two want out of the lifestyle.

 

We all see rules that we think are absurd. It floors me when someone won't kiss me but they will give me the meanest blowjob of my life .

 

Whatever. Some will, some won't, so what.

[little firefly 64]

My personal opinion is that if you truly enjoy watching and you are getting something out of it, some kind of sexual fulfillment, when you are allowing your husband to participate then you should continue to bill yourselves as a couple with rules.

 

I think that's what I'm going to do. I feel that the general consensus here has been divided but I think it would be more deceiving to put him as a single male than to keep us as a couple explaining in crystal detail what our situation is. It's not like they can't pass by our profile and move onto the next.

 

"The playful husband and the voyeuristic wife."

 

I like that! I think that might be the new profile headline

 

Thanks for the insight!

[AskMeOk 148]

I agree with you on your assumption but in context with all of your other posts you are assuming that everyone that are swingers, play the same way.

 

That is not my assumption. My wife and I only play as a couple... so, obviously, we don't play like everybody else, either.

 

Again, speaking to the rules of this particular club, single women are welcome without restriction. Single men are NOT. A person(M or F) that attends with a disinterested partner is, by any reasonable definition, effectively a single... "single men limit" rules are *designed* to limit the number of men without active partners. It may be sexist, no, it IS sexist, but as long as there aren't reasonably equal numbers of men and women seeking to attend swing venues, expect the "unfairness" to continue.

 

There are swingers that like to just have sex in front of others. They don't even soft swap, they simply prefer to be voyeuristic, yet they are not considered any less swingers than those of us that like to jump in and pretzel up.

 

Published literature defines swinging as a "non-monogamous sexual activity, treated much like any other social activity, that can be experienced as a couple." So, no pretzeling? Then, your voyeurs are just that, voyeurs....

[little firefly 64]

Again, speaking to the rules of this particular club, single women are welcome without restriction. Single men are NOT. A person(M or F) that attends with a disinterested partner is, by any reasonable definition, effectively a single... "single men limit" rules are *designed* to limit the number of men without active partners. It may be sexist, no, it IS sexist, but as long as there aren't reasonably equal numbers of men and women seeking to attend swing venues, expect the "unfairness" to continue.

 

Well, luckily The Estate doesn't nitpick when it comes to the way that couples choose to be in the lifestyle. Their main concern is that everyone respect each others rules and boundaries. They find the fact that he plays but I don't to be non consequential. If he doesn't find a couple to hook up with during the evening then he hooks up with me....What's the big deal?

[DigginIt 1,132]

Published literature defines swinging as a "non-monogamous sexual activity, treated much like any other social activity, that can be experienced as a couple." So, no pretzeling? Then, your voyeurs are just that, voyeurs....

 

The thing about definitions is there are so many. This is right here off the SwingersBoard under FAQ

 

What is soft-swinging?

Soft-swing is basically a variety of swinging that encompasses everything except actually having intercourse with other partners. Many swingers choose to save the actual act of intercourse for their own partners but will play with others for the "fore play". They opt for this for a variety of reasons including less risk of STD's, or just saving that special thing for their partner. Some swingers also prefer to just watch others have sex or to be watched, this also falls into the category of soft-swinging.

 

Again, speaking to the rules of this particular club, single women are welcome without restriction. Single men are NOT. A person(M or F) that attends with a disinterested partner is, by any reasonable definition, effectively a single...

 

The key word in that statement is "disinterested" which clearly isn't the case with firefly. She is very much interested in watching and gets an enjoyment out of it. You are applying your definition of swinging which requires her to have sex with another to qualify and that is where we are at a disagreement.

 

I respect your opinion, just don't agree with it.

[AskMeOk 148]

Well, luckily The Estate doesn't nitpick when it comes to the way that couples choose to be in the lifestyle. Their main concern is that everyone respect each others rules and boundaries. They find the fact that he plays but I don't to be non consequential.

 

If you actually read what I wrote, in one post I said exactly that. IF the club owners don't care.... why should you care? If you really are happy with the arrangement, why not just carry on and ignore the email.

 

If he doesn't find a couple to hook up with during the evening then he hooks up with me...

 

So what *is* the problem? What do you want to change?

 

What's the big deal?

 

I certainly don't see any big deal, since I don't have a horse in your race. Though not everyone has the same opinion, other posters seem to be offering well considered advice, not anxiety, so no big deal, there. The club owners seem fine with this, so no big deal there, either.

 

So where *is* the big deal?

[AskMeOk 148]

The thing about definitions is there are so many. This is right here off the Swingersboard under FAQ

 

What is soft-swinging?

Soft-swing is basically a variety of swinging that encompasses everything except actually having intercourse with other partners. Many swingers choose to save the actual act of intercourse for their own partners but will play with others for the "fore play". They opt for this for a variety of reasons including less risk of STD's, or just saving that special thing for their partner. Some swingers also prefer to just watch others have sex or to be watched, this also falls into the category of soft-swinging.

 

 

 

The key word in that statement is "disinterested" which clearly isn't the case with firefly. She is very much interested in watching and gets an enjoyment out of it. You are applying your definition of swinging which requires her to have sex with another to qualify and that is where we are at a disagreement.

 

I respect your opinion, just don't agree with it.

 

 

I think the Swingers Board dictionary needs a lot of work. You had to chose the definition of "soft swing" to prove your point because the various definitions of "swinger," "hard swing, "soft swing," and other words including the word swing or swinger are not in accord and don't necessarily support the definition you picked. (Who mentioned soft swing, anyway?)

 

I chose my definition from: Bergstrand, Curtis; Blevins Williams, Jennifer (2000-10-10). Today's Alternative Marriage Styles: The Case of Swingers. Electronic Journal of Human Sexuality 3. Retrieved 2010-01-24, which I believe to be a more authoritative source.

 

Again, this is not "my" definition and I resist any attempt to imply that I, in any way, "require" Firefly have sex with others. The original question was whether or not a person is considered a "single" if they come with a non-participating partner. (Why did nobody contrast the absolutes... MUST have sex vs. WON'T have sex, how did THAT get a pass?) It was NOT about who was required to have sex and the injection of that notion was to confuse the original question.

[little firefly 64]

If you actually read what I wrote, in one post I said exactly that. IF the club owners don't care.... why should you care? If you really are happy with the arrangement, why not just carry on and ignore the email.

 

I only cared because I wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing by having our profile set as a "couple" instead of him as a "single"....I've decided to keep the profile set as a couple but making sure that it states emphatically with no chance of misunderstanding that I don't play.

 

 

So where *is* the big deal?

 

I wasn't making it a big deal but you seemed to be. Telling me we're a bait and switch couple, circumventing rules, being a ticket for a "single" man to get in the door, being in the wrong for being at a swingers club and giving the implicit indication that I'm there to swap (merely because I'm present), etc. etc...Anyway, I think this dead horse has been beaten quite enough.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I only cared because I wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing by having our profile set as a "couple" instead of him as a "single"....I've decided to keep the profile set as a couple but making sure that it states emphatically with no chance of misunderstanding that I don't play.

 

 

On a personal note/ response - it really annoys me (as half of a couple that plays - despite the fact that I'm bi) the number of couples who show up at clubs for only HER to play. It annoys me that these couples expect my SO to stand on the side and watch, that they assume that because I'm bi that that's ok with us.

 

That said, if you are in the room while he's playing, whether watching or playing with just him, then you are still and should be listed as a couple. If he plays alone (all or some of the time) he should be listed as a single and it should be made clear that he has a female half that is aware, gives permission and occasionally is there to watch and/or play with JUST him. It's much easier to make this info clear in an ad, much more difficult and the situation becomes much more cloudy in a club environment. I think it would be great if we could all wear signs on our foreheads that make our intentions clear at a club, but we can't, so until such a time as everyone shows up at the club with the exact same set of expectations and intentions... we just have to do our best to cut to the chase quickly and make it clear as early as possible as to not waste anyone's time.

 

Your personal situation (having read most of your posts here) rubs me a bit wrong... I guess the difference to me between you guys and a situation where the roles are reversed is that you clearly state you are not and will not be a swinger. In most cases where the roles are reversed that statement is not made, in fact the guys typically would identify as swingers they just aren't interested (or perhaps aren't allowed) to play beyond their partner, so while they may just be soft-swingers they are still swingers (and identify as such). Stating up front that you are not a swinger and are not interested in such, will put those you are with/near/ surrounded by at the clubs in an awkward position and feeling very awkward, not knowing or understanding where you fit in the scheme of things. I think this is where the bulk of the animosity you may be feeling off other swingers is coming from (both in person at the club, via email and even here). While on one hand, as I said in my earlier post you wouldn't be getting it if the roles were reversed on the other hand I'm not so sure that you wouldn't still to some degree. What puts you at an odd angle is that you want to be present and be part of it but don't want to claim it.

[PB&J 1,086]

What puts you at an odd angle is that you want to be present and be part of it but don't want to claim it.

 

Agree with Julie here, and I think that in the end it may be this that most limits your SO's chances of hooking up, not whether he's listed as a single male or half of a couple. Honestly, we would find the idea of the wife-OR husband- just sitting and watching the three of us going at it would be enough to make us move on, and let's face it, there is NEVER a shortage of single males out there.