Advice please! Second shot at swinging and need to overcome insecurities

[biwhat 15]

Hello everyone!

 

I am new to the forum and need a little advice, but first let me give a little background. "Technically" hubby and I are not new to swinging. We have had several FMF experiences and have even full-swapped with another couple on several occasions. The problem is that the first time we did this, we just jumped into it head-first with no prior communication about boundaries or anything, and I kind of freaked out. The fantasy of seeing hubby doing another woman was great, but the reality was well...NOT so great. So I set some boundaries, and we decided to try again. Well, I am not sure whether I didn't communicate my boundaries well enough, or if hubby just caught caught up in the heat of the moment or what, but the boundaries were crossed. At this point, I really didn't want to continue with this, but I knew hubby was very into the idea, so I continued to go along with it. I know this was my own fault for letting it go on, but irregardless, the damage was done.

 

Now, several years later, we have started talking about the idea again. We have realized (and discussed) the mistakes that were made in the past. I want to take our time before we go any further, so I have researched the topic carefully. It helps that I have learned that there are "levels" of swapping, and I can keep things at a level that I am comfortable with, while still having the "thrill" of the experience.

 

However I still have several concerns and questions. This may sound stupid, but how do you KNOW where your comfort levels are before you get into the actual situation? I mean everything is such a turn on when I fantasize about it, but how do I know that it will be in reality? Also, I am not nearly as sexually outgoing as hubby is with other people. Hubby and I have a very adventurous sex life together, but I am very shy when other people become involved. I tend to "freeze up", and can't seem to "let myself go" as much, so I feel like a wet blanket. Because of this, hubby is able to fully enjoy his experience, but I am not, which causes jealousy issues.

 

I know that I have insecurities because of previous attempts, but I want to overcome them. I want this to be something we can enjoy together, but to be honest, I don't know how to do it. Hubby assures me that he will not go beyond my comfort level or speed, but I guess I am scared that he will get caught up in the moment, and things will progress before I have a chance to stop them. I am scared that I won't be able to fully enjoy my part of the experience, but hubby will, and will want to take it even further. How could I take that away from him? And I am scared that I will feel threatened by seeing him enjoy himself with another woman. I have read that some couples try other room swapping to help with that issue, but there is NO way that I could handle that. I know that I need to take baby-steps this time, but I was just wondering if anyone had any advice for me, or could help me overcome these fears and insecurities.

 

Thanks!

[mikeandjenn2001 77]

Baby steps are the way to go. That was the way we had to start as Jen had many insecurities at first as well. As far as finding out what you and are not comfortable with is completely up to you. Open communication is completely necessary in this lifestyle and your husband should be willing to listen to you as far as comfort level. Find your own comfort level and go with it from there, you may find you're comfortable with certain things and not with others.

[biwhat 15]

Baby steps are the way to go. That was the way we had to start as Jen had many insecurities at first as well. As far as finding out what you and are not comfortable with is completely up to you. Open communication is completely necessary in this lifestyle and your husband should be willing to listen to you as far as comfort level. Find your own comfort level and go with it from there, you may find you're comfortable with certain things and not with others.

But how do you know where your comfort levels are? I mean, I may think I am ok with it, and agree to it, but then find out I am actually not ok with it at all in reality. If that makes any sense. It seems like it wouldn't be fair to the others involved to set boundaries and then try to alter them in the middle of it all. But how will I know until I try it?

[mikeandjenn2001 77]

But how do you know where your comfort levels are? I mean, I may think I am ok with it, and agree to it, but then find out I am actually not ok with it at all in reality. If that makes any sense. It seems like it wouldn't be fair to the others involved to set boundaries and then try to alter them in the middle of it all. But how will I know until I try it?

 

That's where getting to know people comes in. When we first meet somebody, we talk with them first and discuss their boundaries as well as other things. If you are up front and honest with people and say "I would like to try this, but I'm not sure how I will feel about it", people are generally more accepting of that than not being told anything.

[biwhat 15]

That's where getting to know people comes in. When we first meet somebody, we talk with them first and discuss their boundaries as well as other things. If you are up front and honest with people and say "I would like to try this, but I'm not sure how I will feel about it", people are generally more accepting of that than not being told anything.

That makes sense! It is also one of the mistakes we made the first time. We had absolutely NO discussion with the other couple. Which is really funny because we had been friends with them for years. It just sort of "happened", and then once it had, it was always just "assumed" that it would happen whenever we got together. The other couple (and hubby) was VERY outgoing and I just felt like a prude for not being as eager about all aspects of it.

[biwhat 15]

Does anyone have advice about being the shy/timid/less adventurous one in the group? I understand that communication is key, but I feel like a party-pooper if I hold the others back...Like I would be keeping them from fully enjoying their experience. Has anyone else had this problem? Any advice on how to become more sexually "open", and less self-conscious when there are others involved?

 

Also, how do you deal with jealousy or whatever? I don't think I am going to lose hubby to someone else. It's not like that. But I guess that I am insecure when it comes to watching him enjoy someone else sexually. Maybe I think he will like what they do better or something, I am not sure.

[exploringRM 305]

Does anyone have advice about being the shy/timid/less adventurous one in the group? I understand that communication is key, but I feel like a party-pooper if I hold the others back...Like I would be keeping them from fully enjoying their experience. Has anyone else had this problem? Any advice on how to become more sexually "open", and less self-conscious when there are others involved?

 

Also, how do you deal with jealousy or whatever? I don't think I am going to lose hubby to someone else. It's not like that. But I guess that I am insecure when it comes to watching him enjoy someone else sexually. Maybe I think he will like what they do better or something, I am not sure.

 

Regarding him liking something his swap partner does, he can always communicate that to you on the experience "de-brief". We've learned alot of things from our partners that we then try on each other. And there are some things my wife does not do, swallow cum or deep throat. She's happy that I have the opportunity to experience that with a different partner.

[lustylearning 705]

Also, how do you deal with jealousy or whatever? I don't think I am going to lose hubby to someone else. It's not like that. But I guess that I am insecure when it comes to watching him enjoy someone else sexually. Maybe I think he will like what they do better or something, I am not sure.

 

I hate to say this, but realistically, he could like something they do better, and frankly, a partner you have may do something you like better. I have no advice on how to deal with it except to point you back to your statement that you're not concerned you're going to lose him.

 

For what it's worth, I've had fabulous sex partners that I had no particular desire to see again. I've also had partners that were incredibly erotic, whose friendship I've truly cherished, but the bottom line is, no one will hold sway over me more than my husband. The foundation of my marriage is not sex. It's the relationship we've built through the trial of life. Sex is a nifty pastime. Don't confuse it with love.

[mikeandjenn2001 77]

Sex is a nifty pastime. Don't confuse it with love.

 

I don't think I could have said it better myself

[biwhat 15]

Regarding him liking something his swap partner does, he can always communicate that to you on the experience "de-brief". We've learned alot of things from our partners that we then try on each other. And there are some things my wife does not do, swallow cum or deep throat. She's happy that I have the opportunity to experience that with a different partner.

Sounds like your wife has some of the same "issues" that I have. I am not really comfortable with some of my oral "skills". I guess I feel it would magnify my lack of ability if another woman did it to him and did it well. I think that was part of the problem in the past. The other women seemed to be so good at it, and he enjoyed it so much (almost too much?). I think it honestly gave me a complex about it. I WANT him to be able to enjoy it even if it is with someone else, but it makes me feel like a failure that I can't seem to do it as well as others no matter how hard I try.

[sexycouple1 36]

Me and my wife have only been at this about 4 months now and it was newer to us than it was for you guys. We found that in our short time that it's best to treat any party you go to and any outing whether it be dinner or drinks or dancing like a vanilla date. I think that helped both of us relax mentally and just focus on getting to know the other couple without the "sex" thing being always in the forefront of your mind. Conversation and flirting then just seem to naturally happen. I'd say your husband if he loves you will slow down to match your speed until you start getting the hang of this world. I think you will start getting better at talking with people over time. I bet months down the road you will wonder at how much you have changed socially for the better. You will have your roller coast rides of feeling jealous and not sure of situations. The important thing we learned is you talk about it as soons as you can, dont let it fester or bottle it up or hide problems or concerns from each other. Your husband is supposed to be your best friend so he should understand your feelings. Trust your instincts is another word of advice , don't ignore that little voice inside your head when you feel someone or some situation is not to your liking. My last bit of advice is the most important, just have fun. This shouldn't be work. So relax and enjoy the party.

[PB&J 1,086]

I WANT him to be able to enjoy it even if it is with someone else, but it makes me feel like a failure that I can't seem to do it as well as others no matter how hard I try.

 

We all have our strengths... for me, like you and Mrs exploringRM, I'm never going to be the blowjob queen.(damn gag reflex!) So I'm thrilled when PB gets to enjoy that with another woman. Meanwhile, I've got other moves that the men (including PB!) seem to love... at least that's what they tell me. And when some other man manages to hit a spot that's got me screaming.... he loves to see me enjoying myself too. So focus on those positives!

 

No matter what another woman can do for him, you're the one he's leaving with at the end of the night.

[biwhat 15]

I swear this place is better than a trip to the shrink!

I really want to try to venture into this again. Guess I started analyzing too much and panicked a little. But everyone has given such good advice, and has relieved a lot of my worries. Do you think if we ever get a "play date", you all could come with me and quiet those voices in my head? Or would that be a little weird? LOL

 

PB&J, it is nice to know that I am not alone in that department. I was beginning to think I was. Seems like every woman I meet, and surely every woman we have been with, simply loves it and is really good at it. Hubby has never complained when I did it, but let's just say that reactions speak for themselves when someone else does it. Maybe you have given me the confidence to let him get that pleasure from someone else. I mean, maybe they can give him that, but they aren't the ones coming home to wash his socks....Oh wait a minute, maybe that was a bad example.

 

Sexycouple, you have really given me something to think about. I would love to have your attitude about it, and thanks to you I am one step closer. Your advice has calmed most of my nerves and fears. Thank you!

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Welcome to the Swingers Board, biwhat

 

I swear this place is better than a trip to the shrink!

I don't know about "better" than a trip to the shrink, but certainly cheaper

 

Never underestimate a good shrink, they're real people too Mine is a lifelong friend, we met as children. Who knew then, where our lives would lead someday ? What started as a bond with trust I earned when she said one day "Don't Tell..." Became an understanding later in life that it is OK to tell "some things", to the right people. For me, that is Mrsfun (Who knows EVERYTHING now) to the true swingers, who to me are "my kind". The thing is, not all swingers are trustworthy, I can only hope you find those that are...

 

I really want to try to venture into this again. Guess I started analyzing too much and panicked a little. But everyone has given such good advice, and has relieved a lot of my worries. Do you think if we ever get a "play date", you all could come with me and quiet those voices in my head? Or would that be a little weird? LOL

I don't know that we could be there in person, but we'll try to be through empathy. Those voices we hear are our conscience, and I'm glad you have one. Fear those who don't because to them, we are their prey.

 

At this point I have to be truthful, biwhat. How does your husband/partner communicate with you ? Do you feel heard and understood completely ? I only ask because in life I'm not always the perfect husband . There were many times trying to communicate with Mrsfun she would say to me "No, you don't understand how I feel, I'm not finished" It took a great deal on my part to hear that and to get on her page, to actually understand that...

 

As individuals I do have to let my wife have her friends to talk with. I don't always have her answers.... It doesn't make me feel abandoned or even wrong....

 

Do you think this is part of the reason you feel this way ?

 

I am not a professional in psychology but I am a swinging husband who by all wrights understands Mrsfun not only held the keys to swinging, but opened the doors I went through as her guest... That would have never happened or lead me where I am today, without grasping that concept. I think there is allot to be said for that.... Sometimes there is more to it than just saying we need good communication. Good communication doesent happen without, understanding.

 

Here is some of the things I actually asked Mrsfun along the way that I hope might help you understand something..... about yourself.

 

Do you think your partner could do this without you ?

 

Do you think even if he could, he would enjoy playing/having sex, without you as his partner ?

 

 

Fun4ds

[biwhat 15]

Fun, I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect husband, or wife for that matter. But hubby is learning to be a good communicator/listener. As I said, we have had problems with that in the past. I would try to communicate my feelings, and I am not sure whose "fault" it was, but the messages seemed to get lost in the translation. We are actually in MC right now, because we had another "issue" a while back. Not sure I want to get into that right now, but I will say that it was a result of his three-way fantasy. Because of this, we have started to communicate like never before. I feel like he is REALLY starting to understand my feelings and insecurities.

 

Btw, I would like everyone to know that he is in no way trying to push me into this. In fact he was absolutely against the idea. I am the one who is wanting to explore it. He has given me the only set of keys (so to speak). I just want to make sure that we take our time and do it right if we are going to try it again. I know that I have to deal with my issues before we even attempt it, or it (and possibly US) would be doomed to fail. We have made progress as a couple, and thanks to you wonderful people, I am beginning to make progress on myself.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

... We are actually in MC right now, because we had another "issue" a while back. Not sure I want to get into that right now, but I will say that it was a result of his three-way fantasy...

 

Btw, I would like everyone to know that he is in no way trying to push me into this. In fact he was absolutely against the idea...

These two statements (above) speak volumes.

 

You are going through marriage counseling due to a three-way fantasy.

 

Your husband doesn't want to swing; you say he was "absolutely against the idea." I have to wonder if he's now going along for the wrong reasons.

 

I don't recommend that you swing, especially since you are very confused sounding about what you can handle, even though you've already had a fair amount of swinging experience in the past.

 

You don't need to swing right now. Don't add things to life that are only going to create more confusion or problems in your marriage, i.e. swinging. Take care of getting your marriage back in order first.

 

LM

[biwhat 15]

These two statements (above) speak volumes.

 

You are going through marriage counseling due to a three-way fantasy.

 

Your husband doesn't want to swing; you say he was "absolutely against the idea." I have to wonder if he's now going along for the wrong reasons.

 

I don't recommend that you swing, especially since you are very confused sounding about what you can handle, even though you've already had a fair amount of swinging experience in the past.

 

You don't need to swing right now. Don't add things to life that are only going to create more confusion or problems in your marriage, i.e. swinging. Take care of getting your marriage back in order first.

 

LM

The reason we are in MC is not because of a three-way fantasy per se. It was because of lack of communication about things he was feeling, and the way he handled the situation. Since we have been in MC (and I guess because of the reason we are in MC) our marriage is stronger than it has been in a while. The reason he was against the idea was because he was worried that I wanted it for the wrong reasons. He was scared that I wasn't truly ok with the idea, but wanted to do it because he wanted it. I can honestly say that I want it as much for myself as I do for him. I just need to work out some things before we venture into it. I don't want issues to pop up unexpectedly, and not be prepared to handle them. Believe me, I have learned my lesson from previous attempts! That is why I am researching everything I can, and trying to get some of my questions answered here. I do not know how far I will be willing to take it, but I will be informed and aware this time. And I will not take it further than my comfort level...or his!

[fun4Ds 1,098]

The reason we are in MC is not because of a three-way fantasy per se. It was because of lack of communication about things he was feeling, and the way he handled the situation. Since we have been in MC (and I guess because of the reason we are in MC) our marriage is stronger than it has been in a while. The reason he was against the idea was because he was worried that I wanted it for the wrong reasons. He was scared that I wasn't truly ok with the idea, but wanted to do it because he wanted it. I can honestly say that I want it as much for myself as I do for him. I just need to work out some things before we venture into it. I don't want issues to pop up unexpectedly, and not be prepared to handle them. Believe me, I have learned my lesson from previous attempts! That is why I am researching everything I can, and trying to get some of my questions answered here. I do not know how far I will be willing to take it, but I will be informed and aware this time. And I will not take it further than my comfort level...or his!

Biwhat, I would want to do nothing more than to encourage what you have going now. I think you have taken some big steps in your own relationship by finding a MC that helps. Kudos to you guys for doing that !

 

We encourage healthy relationships as swingers

 

Looking back now, are you confident you have learned from your mistakes ?

 

Do you feel MrBiwhat has as well ?

 

 

Fun4ds

[biwhat 15]

Biwhat, I would want to do nothing more than to encourage what you have going now. I think you have taken some big steps in your own relationship by finding a MC that helps. Kudos to you guys for doing that !

 

We encourage healthy relationships as swingers

 

Looking back now, are you confident you have learned from your mistakes ?

 

Do you feel MrBiwhat has as well ?

 

 

Fun4ds

Yes Fun, I am confident that I have learned from my mistakes. My mistake was letting things go further than I was comfortable with, just because I didn't want to be a party-pooper. Another mistake was not communicating my feelings strongly enough, for the same reasons. I have learned that I have to set limitations, and that doing so does not make me any less of a woman. As a matter of fact, the confidence that I can gain from that may even make me MORE of one.

 

I am almost as confident that Mr. has too. He now understands that some of the things he has done have hurt me. He also realizes that no situation can be fun for him if it is not fun for me as well. He came really close to losing me before MC, which taught him that that I will not allow him to disrespect my feelings.

 

We have been best friends since I was 13 years old. Somewhere along the way, we lost track of that, but we are beginning to remember again. Are we ready to jump back into swinging? Nope, not by a long shot! Is our marriage strong enough to start thinking about it again? I think so....As long as we take it slow, and remember that nothing is more important than US.

[snapps 78]

would've been great if you could've get into what boudaries were crossed, or what it is you didnt feel comfortable with. but from what youve stated, i think what overcomes everything, fear, timidness, shyness, etc..... is communication..... Communication, Communication, Communication, Communication, Communication, Communication, Communication, .... You have to communicate... period! you'll be suprised what you can overcome by just doing this... And i would advise against moving further with your fantasies until you are 110% comfortable in your own skin and in the situation... good luck!!

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I know that I have insecurities because of previous attempts, but I want to overcome them. I want this to be something we can enjoy together, but to be honest, I don't know how to do it. Hubby assures me that he will not go beyond my comfort level or speed, but I guess I am scared that he will get caught up in the moment, and things will progress before I have a chance to stop them. I am scared that I won't be able to fully enjoy my part of the experience, but hubby will, and will want to take it even further. How could I take that away from him? And I am scared that I will feel threatened by seeing him enjoy himself with another woman. I have read that some couples try other room swapping to help with that issue, but there is NO way that I could handle that. I know that I need to take baby-steps this time, but I was just wondering if anyone had any advice for me, or could help me overcome these fears and insecurities.

 

 

Reading this it sounds to me that you still aren't 100% sure you trust your husband and that is key. You have to trust him that he will not move beyond what you say is ok. That he will put you as the first priority. You have to be able to go into this with no worries whatsoever that he might allow things to just happen that you haven't given the ok to.

 

 

However I still have several concerns and questions. This may sound stupid, but how do you KNOW where your comfort levels are before you get into the actual situation?

 

You don't know them all but you can have a good idea. Think about what things bother you to think about. What things when you imagine the scenario make you jealous or angry or uncomfortable. Now put those things on the list of things you don't want to happen (yet). Now what things do you think you'd be ok with at this point? Those are the things to shoot for trying (for now). When people say baby-steps they don't mean going in with what set of limits then changing mid-stream. That is NEVER a good idea. It is too easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment and to allow things to happen either because your inhibitions are down or because you don't want to be the bad guy. So set the rules in advance for what you are comfortable with, with the knowledge being that you can stop things at any point if you are not comfortable with something. It may be that thinking about things now you are ok with him giving oral sex to someone but when it comes down to it you can't handle it. As a couple you have to agree that either of you, at any time, can stop what you are not comfortable with and you will both walk away and discuss the situation. Even if you think that as you go you are comfortable to try more, wait till the next time and discuss your feelings and agree to change your boundaries before you play again, rather than during play.

[biwhat 15]

would've been great if you could've get into what boudaries were crossed, or what it is you didnt feel comfortable with. but from what youve stated, i think what overcomes everything, fear, timidness, shyness, etc..... is communication..... Communication, Communication, Communication, Communication, Communication, Communication, Communication, .... You have to communicate... period! you'll be suprised what you can overcome by just doing this... And i would advise against moving further with your fantasies until you are 110% comfortable in your own skin and in the situation... good luck!!

To be honest, I am not sure that boundaries were actually crossed. I think there was just a lack of communication about exactly where those boundaries were. For example, I would say something like if I had to leave the room, the "sex stuff" needed to stop until I came back into the room. In my mind that meant ALL activity, but in his mind that meant SEX had to stop. So when I would come back into the room, he would be doing everything besides actual sex. I would see him being with the girl alone and it would freak me out. In my mind he was crossing boundaries that I had put in place, but I see now where those boundaries were so vague that he could be confused about what I actually meant. I agree that communication is key. That is the main thing we were lacking before.

[biwhat 15]

Reading this it sounds to me that you still aren't 100% sure you trust your husband and that is key. You have to trust him that he will not move beyond what you say is ok. That he will put you as the first priority. You have to be able to go into this with no worries whatsoever that he might allow things to just happen that you haven't given the ok to.

 

 

 

 

You don't know them all but you can have a good idea. Think about what things bother you to think about. What things when you imagine the scenario make you jealous or angry or uncomfortable. Now put those things on the list of things you don't want to happen (yet). Now what things do you think you'd be ok with at this point? Those are the things to shoot for trying (for now). When people say baby-steps they don't mean going in with what set of limits then changing mid-stream. That is NEVER a good idea. It is too easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment and to allow things to happen either because your inhibitions are down or because you don't want to be the bad guy. So set the rules in advance for what you are comfortable with, with the knowledge being that you can stop things at any point if you are not comfortable with something. It may be that thinking about things now you are ok with him giving oral sex to someone but when it comes down to it you can't handle it. As a couple you have to agree that either of you, at any time, can stop what you are not comfortable with and you will both walk away and discuss the situation. Even if you think that as you go you are comfortable to try more, wait till the next time and discuss your feelings and agree to change your boundaries before you play again, rather than during play.

 

I do trust him. I guess I am just scared still. When we attempted to swing before, it was quite a traumatic experience for me. We did so many things wrong, and I don't want to make those mistakes again. If we are going to attempt it again, I want to make sure that I am prepared BEFORE we get started. I am trying to think of various situations in case they happen, so I will be prepared to deal with them if they happen. That was part of the problem before. Things happened that I didn't expect, and I had no clue how to deal with them. I didn't want to be the bad guy, because everyone else enjoyed it so much, so I just ignored the situation and buried the feelings. I didn't communicate to hubby how I was feeling so he thought I was fine with everything. I thought he should "know" that I was upset, and didn't, so in my mind he didn't care about my feelings.

 

I understand what you are saying. I think we have to take baby steps....and I do mean BABY steps. When I fantasize about it, everything is good. The raunchier the better. So I would think that everything would be ok when it happens in reality. But I know now that it doesn't work that way. We have decided that when we actually begin we are going to start out with only flirting and dancing, no sexual activity at all. If I am ok with that, (and he is too) we will maybe go a little further the next time. Like I told him, since I have no clue where my actual comfort levels are, that will give me a chance to assess it a small bit at a time. Red flags are much easier to deal with than full blown raging jealousy.