GF and I are going to the club for the first time, BUT...

[DiscreetRayJay 15]

Hi there community... First, I need to apologize, because I know you field the type of questions I'm about to ask routinely enough to be sick to death. I am hoping though that you will entertain the questions and help me out if you can.

 

My GF and I have been together long enough now to know that we're going to get married. We live together, we love together. We get along better than I've EVER gotten along with anyone. We've had our fights - all couples do, but we've never had a fight which didn't make us stronger. I believe that changed last night. Allow me to explain.

 

A few months ago, my GF was out with some girlfriends having a few drinks. As she always does, she was giving me text updates as the evening progressed. I know all of the girls she was with - including the one girl who apparently that night admitted to having a bi-curious side. According to my GF, her friend explained her "rules" for having a girl/girl encounter:

 

1. The other girl would have to be a total stranger.

2. She'd have to be a little drunk (otherwise she'd be to inhibited to do it).

3. Her husband could watch, but could not touch, period.

 

I was excited by this as this girl is fairly attractive and now I have thoughts of her living out her fantasies when I see her, although I'd never say anything... ever. Anyways... my GF added to this story by explaining that for her to do a girl/girl experience, the rules would have to be exactly the same. Of course this got my juices flowing. I had to know more.

 

The next day, I asked her about the conversation the girls had the night before. Asking her the obvious question about what she'd said. Her reply was a bit of a let down. she said that she was just talking and that she meant had she ever decided to do that and that she was past that in life now. (I'm 31, she's 32). I was disappointed, but I told her (and the other girl) there was a place she could go to satisfy her fantasy. (the local on-premise club) It was clear immediately that I opened a door for her that she didn't know existed. She sorta admitted it was more fantasy than something she was really looking to do... I'll digress on that one...

 

Now, give me a minute to explain who each of us are... It's sort of integral to the forthcoming question(s). I was married for a long time. The relationship was bad, and without too much detail, our sex life reflected how awful our marriage really was. Not satisfied with things, I stepped out on her. A huge mistake, but it's what happened. I registered with Swing Lifestyle, created a premium account, and sought the company of singles and couples while I was married. I did meet one couple in the year that I was involved with the lifestyle guy. I fooled around with the girl in the couple only once or twice, but it gave me experience into the lifestyle. I liked it. I even contemplated bringing this to the wife, but I thought better of it and kept it my secret. When I met my GF, I cancelled my Swing Lifestyle and gave up the lifestyle altogether, promising that I'd only come back if and when I could come back with my GF.

 

My GF has been around the block a lot, but all vanilla stuff with two exceptions. The first found her in bed with another couple, but not as a player. She was just there while the couple was having sex together. The second found her in bed with two men... She told me she had to leave the situation before anything happened. "I'm only built for one at a time." She said. She's had no other lifestyle experience whatsoever, but she's not dumb either; she knows what's out there.

 

We both like to watch porn together. We're both voyeurs. She is the most sexual woman I've ever met, and I'm lucky to have it as good with her as I do. I'm also extremely sexual. I think although I don't have the experience she does, I'm less inhibited than she....

 

...onto the story -

 

So having had the conversation about the local on-premise club, I asked my GF if she'd ever want to go. I was scared stiff to ask the question. If she said no, she'd wonder why I wanted to go. I thought it might destroy us. Much to my surprise though, she said we could absolutely go, but immediately followed it up with: "I'm not doing anything though." Still shocked, I explained that was fine and that we'd just be going to check the club out and be voyeurs for a night. Excited, I wanted to sit down, review the club's website and pick a date right then and there, but she was scheduled to have knee surgery in a few weeks and there would be no way we could have gone before that or before she recovered completely. We decided on going to our local club on March 13 (about 2 weeks from now).

 

We had a few more conversations about going since the first time we discussed it. In those discussions she made it very clear to me that:

 

1. She did not want to share me with anyone else.

2. She wanted me to not want to share her with anyone else too.

 

I completely understood her and reassured her that we were going strictly as voyeurs. She seemed ok with that and haven't talked much about going since then... until a few days ago.

 

I have been doing ALL the research I can do to find out things like how the night is going to go down for first timers, what we should wear, how to politely say no, club etiquette, etc... in doing so, I started contacting current members and those who have been there before. I made friends with a few couples in the area, but just as mentors. All of this was in the open, and I never hid anything from Rachael, except for one thing: I would be ok sharing each other, although it's not something I'm prepared to lose the love of my life over.

 

Last night, I was talking with someone about going to the club (as I've been doing almost every night for two weeks - yea, I'm excited!) and she asked me what my GF wanted to get out of the club visit. Having never considered that at all, I decided to ask her. Up the stairs I marched, laptop in hand and sat down with her and asked her. She said she didn't know and asked me the same question. As I was answering, she caught a line of text I typed about being curious about doing more in the lifestyle. This was a conversation I wanted to have, but not how it happened and when it happened. I was TERRIFIED that admitting to wanting to be open would do irreparable damage. I was seeking advice on how to do this when she found out. Now I'm not prepared.

 

It got very nasty, and although the fight ended with us embracing and making lifelong promises, I don't know this fight will ever go away. Her sadness revolves around my being ok with sharing her with someone else. She went as far as to say that if I am willing to let her be with someone else, I am with the wrong woman. I quickly tried to backtrack to save my relationship. I tried explain that "doing more" or going further doesn't necessarily imply full swap or even soft swap... It might me being watched together, or same room sex, etc... It didn't work at first... She kept honing in on my desire to share her and how much that hurt. I tried to explain that I would never pressure her into something that she didn't want to do, and if she didn't want to explore openly as swingers, then WE don't want to... She didn't quite believe me there, although I meant it. If one of us or the other isn't ok with something, then WE together aren't. I believe that completely. For her though, it was all about my being ok with her being with another... She reiterated that would NEVER happen, ever.

 

Given all that was said last night, I told her (and I meant it) that we might want to reconsider going to the club altogether. Despite the fight, she insisted that she wanted to go... to watch and take it all in visually. She also said that IF any action happened there, it would be in a private room with the blinds drawn. I've always believed this would be a victory for me at this point, as I did not want to have the conversation yet.

 

People, I need help because now I'm confused. It's clear to me that she knows I want more from this than just voyeuring. It's clear to me that she's uncomfortable with that. It's also clear that she still wants to walk through the club's door with me. I don't know what to make of all of this. Is there still a remote curiosity in there?? Given what she's said will she ever come around to the lifestyle? Will there ever be an appropriate time to express to her that I might want to do more than just watch other couples? How do I do that while assuring her that she's all the woman I need and that it is just something I thought might be fun to share together, although we don't have to?

 

I'm sorry, it sort of all just fell apart on me here at the end. My mind is racing again. This is a fragile situation for me, and I don't want to break my relationship, which until last night was impenetrable. Thank you so much for taking the time to read this and answer (if you do)....

 

Sincerely,

The New Guy

[DigginIt 1,132]

WOW, what a post, lol.

 

Curiosity and Insecurity seem to be the two biggest things I pull out of your story. She's curious enough to go to see what it is about but too insecure to think about the possibilities beyond some voyeuristic fun.

 

Swinging is about trust and while the two of you may be deeply in love, the trust (in the context of swinging) has a long way to go still. You both are on the younger side of the scene and have plenty of time. Don't rush it.

 

Most people do not understand swinging and why people do it. Many never will and some will but still will not do it themselves. The ability to think of sex as something recreational is not easy and even those of us that can think of it that way still have our fair share of emotional stress on occasion.

 

Continue to work on your relationship, plant a seed now and let it grow. Not only did my wife eventually come to terms with swinging when I brought it up but she took the horse by the reigns and led the charge. It took two years for that to happen. Exercise patience and understanding and be thankful that she seems to have an open mind even though she isn't able to accept the idea of sharing yet.

 

There is no rush and if and when she comes to terms with the idea, and if she thinks she would like to try it, it won't be something you had to drag her into but something she made a conscious decision to do with you as a couple.

[cplnuswing 4,712]

I agree with what DigginIt said, good advice for you there.

 

The only comment I might add is that your situation is a case study in why young relationships don't go together well with swinging. Not saying it can't be done successfully by people who haven't had a long-term relationship, but I think it's much, much more difficult. I will be the first to admit that it wouldn't have worked well for us either at that stage in our relationship.

 

Although the swinging demographic seems to be shifting a little younger, at least based on the online profiles you see now that you didn't even a few years ago, I think that's it's no random event that most lifestyle couples you meet have at least two if not all of the following - somewhere from early middle age on up, are married, and have known each other for years.

[DiscreetRayJay 15]

Thank you guys so much for your responses. I'm going to let her make the decisions about how we proceed from here. If it means we close the door to swinging for good, I'll be ok with that... (That was the one thing I don't think she understands about me: just because I'd like to, doesn't mean we have to.) If she does come around at some point, that will just be a wonderful bonus.

 

Thanks again to you folks for your input.

[DigginIt 1,132]

Thank you guys so much for your responses. I'm going to let her make the decisions about how we proceed from here. If it means we close the door to swinging for good, I'll be ok with that... (That was the one thing I don't think she understands about me: just because I'd like to, doesn't mean we have to.) If she does come around at some point, that will just be a wonderful bonus.

 

Thanks again to you folks for your input.

 

Just take things one step at a time and try not to spend too much time trying to figure out how it will play out in the future. If you go to the club, go there to have fun with her. Make it a very positive experience. Be sincere and loving and make sure you two dance and have a good time.

 

Explore the club and then talk later about things you saw. Things that got you excited or things you didn't like. Make sure the club visit is a couples only night is the one recommendation I would also give you for your visit.

 

Let us know how it goes.

[DiscreetRayJay 15]

*** UPDATE ***

 

Ok folks... We just got home from the club listed in the story above... I'm again going to need your assistance... I'm even more confused now (I think). I'll start by giving a quick rundown of our evening... (quick, I promise!)

 

We checked in and were introduced to a host couple who showed us around and explained the rules. They escorted us to a private room which included a two-way mirror into the room next to us and a swing. We've always wanted to try a swing, but it's not something that you'd want to spend money on to find out you hate it, so it was awesome having one there if we decided to use it. Apparently my GF got hot just thinking about the swing, but we followed the tour along and grabbed a seat for dinner.

 

We had introduced ourselves to another local couple on Yahoo messenger. They met us there and sat with us over dinner and while some of the other club regulars danced. About 45 minutes later we decided to take a walk through the club and see what was going on (as per the voyeur mission). She immediately took me to the room with the swing. Upon entering, another couple entered the room on the other side of the mirror. They left the lights on but dim... we were able to watch them for a while. My GF wouldn't get to close to the mirror for fear that she'd be caught watching, LOL.

 

We shut our blinds so we were totally in private. Immediately disrobed and she got into the swing. The rookies we are - we didn't quite figure it out, so I tossed her on the bed and we had our way with each other. It was a good time and we're already making plans to go back... On to my questions:

 

Back at our table we were people watching and talking a bit. Then, she said something I NEVER expected her to say. I need your help interpreting. She said - "If for some reason my brain melts down and we ever did do something with a couple... We're definitely trading up, not down."

 

Please people, help me here!!! I didn't ask her to clarify that, so I don't know exactly what she meant by it... I sorta viewed that as an extremely fragile statement. If I asked her to clarify, I might break the fragile thing... I don't want to do that. What do I take from what she said? Is she considering something, if only prematurely and tentatively, or was she just talking? I'm confused, but optimistic. Is that right? Thanks again board members!!!

[SW_PA_Couple 4,023]

. . . If I asked her to clarify, I might break the fragile thing...

I'm pleased to read that you shared a good time at the club. I have to wonder what gives you all of this concern for asking your womanfriend such a simple question. Have you known her to over-react?

 

~Michael

[Learning 160]

Just clarify with her. When you debrief maybe posing it as you guys are going to be with a couple that is attractive to you, not some trolls

[ncmd_couple 597]

RayJay,

 

It sounds like you two have a fun evening at the club. Ok, about her comment.

 

She said - "If for some reason my brain melts down and we ever did do something with a couple... We're definitely trading up, not down."

 

Going to a club for the first time is a pretty sensory intense thing. You two were seeing, and enjoying, things that you would never have imagined a couple of years ago. In some ways, all those new senses, and trying to decided if you like them or not, could make her feel that her brain was melting down.

 

The rest of the statement sounds to me like she is saying, "I am really enjoying this, even if we never play with another couple, we will be coming back here again."

 

But the reality is, you can ask us, and we can give you our guess, but you will never really know until you talk to her about it.

 

S

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

Back at our table we were people watching and talking a bit. Then, she said something I NEVER expected her to say. I need your help interpreting. She said - "If for some reason my brain melts down and we ever did do something with a couple... We're definitely trading up, not down."

 

Please people, help me here!!! I didn't ask her to clarify that, so I don't know exactly what she meant by it... I sorta viewed that as an extremely fragile statement. If I asked her to clarify, I might break the fragile thing... I don't want to do that. What do I take from what she said? Is she considering something, if only prematurely and tentatively, or was she just talking? I'm confused, but optimistic. Is that right? Thanks again board members!!!

Hi RayJay and welcome to the Board.

 

I understand your GF's statement to mean:

 

If I say I want to have sex with someone (because I'm too drunk or just not thinking straight) be sure we have sex with people sexier than us, cooler than us, "porn type people" and NOT people less sexy than us or less cool than us.

 

I think your GF meant that if you are going to "trade" partners with another couple it better be a damn hot couple.

 

But hey Ray, just ask her.

 

If you have to tippy-toe around things your GF is going to say, worried about her being too fragile to discuss what she says, you two shouldn't be at a swing club.

 

What you have said throughout this thread about your GF's statements tells me she's likely to drink too much alcohol to get herself to swing, and then it will become the excuse for doing things she said she wouldn't or didn't want to do. If she thinks she needs to be drunk to do sexual things, that's going to be a big problem.

 

Don't head to a swing club again until you are able to talk to her about anything you have questions about.

 

LM

[DiscreetRayJay 15]

Ok, I think I should have taken the time to unwind and come down a little bit from our trip before I posted. While I told you everything that happened, the way it happened, I didn't do quite a good enough job explaining the moods we were in.

 

The most nervous I felt was on the way to the club. We signed in and were introduced to our host couple. By the time we were through with the explanation of the rules, both of us were relaxed and very excited about the evening. Everything went better than either of us could have expected.

 

I should also say that I don't drink... not a drop. My GF, she will drink, but when she said what she said last night, it was about four hours in and she was still working on her second or third drink. It was our goal to make sure we were both in the right frame of mind to experience something like this for the first time and be able to remember all of the details afterward. It was one of the rules we made.

 

About what she said? I think she was telling me that IF we ever decided together that this is something that we would want to do on a more involved level (whatever that may be), we would be very selective with whom we'd get more involved. So in that sense, you were right LM. To say it would take her being three sheets to the wind - I can tell you that's just not her at all. I'm just trying to get a sense from this group if you think that comments like that at ALL should be an indication for me that she might be willing to try new things and start talking more with her. We've definitely agreed we would go back. We even talked about how often we could reasonably get away for a night there... She told me the next time we go that we should opt for the annual membership ($50), citing if we go more than 5 times, it'll pay for itself. She's definitely comfortable with going back... We both are.

 

I will definitely at some point soon ask her about what she meant by what she said, but I just don't want to scare her away. I've learned over the past few weeks that I really need to take this very slow. In fact, I need to let her set the pace. We're a very honest couple with each other, but I also know that I don't want to rehash a bad discussion like the one we had a few weeks back. I'll handle that portion of this whole thing on my own; I was more asking if you thought it was something that was worth trying to handle. It feels to me like given the right time and room to explore herself and emotions, she will likely come around. I was curious to know if you all shared my sentiment. Thanks again.

 

One last thing before I go... I almost get the sense that she's feeling me out a little bit too with those types of comments... Does that sound ridiculous?

[Gordo 618]

My take:

 

a/ she's hooked

b/ she already has firm expections about what she wants. (we're trading up)

c/ she's rationalizing her desire by expressing it as a cost saving.

 

I wouldn't slow down one bit. Get her back and let the atmosphere work on her. I think you'll be surprised by what happens very shortly.

 

G.

[DiscreetRayJay 15]

My take:

 

a/ she's hooked

b/ she already has firm expections about what she wants. (we're trading up)

c/ she's rationalizing her desire by expressing it as a cost saving.

 

I wouldn't slow down one bit. Get her back and let the atmosphere work on her. I think you'll be surprised by what happens very shortly.

 

G.

 

That's certainly my plan. Keep it moving slowly. She's in the driver's seat from here on out. I will however show her the road. Thanks so much for all the input. You guys/gals all rock.

[Gordo 618]

One other thought I had would be to ask her, when you're at the club, to point out a guy she thinks would be a trade up or fantasy.

 

If she points someone out, assuming he's not busy, don't ask.. just go over and ask him to join you. Even better if it's a couple.

 

Hopefully that he measures up to whatever picture she has in her mind.

[DiscreetRayJay 15]

One other thought I had would be to ask her, when you're at the club, to point out a guy she thinks would be a trade up or fantasy.

 

If she points someone out, assuming he's not busy, don't ask.. just go over and ask him to join you. Even better if it's a couple.

 

Hopefully that he measures up to whatever picture she has in her mind.

 

She did point out a guy and said "He could get it." but under no circumstances would I ever surprise her like that. If/when it happens:

 

a: it'll probably be same room sex the first time (or more likely few times)

b: it will have been a decision we made prior to the visit where something would happen.

c: if we agree "tonight is the night" we won't settle. We'll talk with the m/w/c and see how it goes.

 

I think it's dangerous doing things without discussing them first.

[Gordo 618]

I'm not suggesting doing something without talking.

 

One of the toughest parts about starting this is the "mountain" that has to be climbed for the first encounter.

 

There's a gorgeous girl over there and I'm over here. And the gulf between us is enormous. Now if my wife went over and asked her to join us it can become the beginnings of a social occasion with a little talk and flirt. If it progresses past there wonderful, but it doesn't have to.

 

Maybe I'm wrong about this but it has always seemed easier for a man to approach another man or a woman to approach another woman or a couple to approach another couple.

 

The important part for the first time is to discover they don't have horns, they're just normal everyday people.

 

In reading your posts it does seem there is some reluctance to talk about the idea so the idea of direct action seems to be a way around that impasse.

 

Hopefully he's a nice guy, hopefully it's a good conversation and that should make the subsequent conversation that you REALLY want to have easier.

 

Just an icebreaker!!!

 

G.

[DiscreetRayJay 15]

...Hopefully he's a nice guy, hopefully it's a good conversation and that should make the subsequent conversation that you REALLY want to have easier.

 

Just an icebreaker!!!

 

G.

 

Ok, so we just had a little talk (her and me) in the kitchen. It was a little bit about jealousy and a lot about getting more involved. I asked her to clarify what she meant, and I had it a little bit wrong, but what facts about what she said that I messed up don't change the overall message she sent me.

 

It's clear to me that she's having a good time right now. She's still firm on never even having a third or fourth person in the room with us. She also pointed out that the foursome she and I watched would never be something we'd ever participate in. I'm not convinced that's entirely true, but for the time being, that's all I need to know: She's having a good time at the level we're at, and wasn't scared by what she saw. That - in my honest opinion - is a victory. As things progress and we're both a little more comfortable with what's going on at these clubs or parties, I'm sure our conversations will include more things than they do right now, but like I said... She's in the driver's seat... Wherever she takes us from here, I'm ok with. I'm sure over the next few visits we'll get a little more social with the rest of the members and the pace will change a bit, but until then, I'm one happy puppy, and so it appears is she!

[dixiedelight2 15]

I thought what she said was pretty obvious. lol. If and when the two of you decided to allow someone or some others in your sex life she definitely wants them to be a better catch than what she perceives you guys have with each other. Better looks, better bodies, bigger penis, bigger/prettier boobs, higher up the social ladder, etc, etc.

 

Some might say that's a little crass but it's pretty much the nature of humans to want or expect better if they're going to step out of their tried and true comfort zone. Unlike us men, most ladies have to overcome feeling guilty or vulgur using someone for personal sexual extasy. Yes you respect and enjoy giving a new partner the same sexual satisfaction you seek but it's not with the same heart felt bond of love as with your own life partner.

 

I suspect your GF had enough contact with the lifestyle in the two experiences you mentioned to get a real feel of how exciting sex outside of the traditional boundries can be. She was eager to go to the club because she liked that different kind of excitement and wanted to feel it again with you. The beauty of the lifestyle is there is no guilt because you are honest and you share the experience with your loved life partner.

 

Take things slow. I think anyone will tell you just being around the lifestyle and watching others enjoy is foreplay for most couples. watching and being watched is pretty safe and leads to incredible sex for most couples. talk about it honestly after each experience. Together you'll both decide how far you want to go. Do what you say and say what you do. Never forget one day down the road you'll need that same life bond and honesty in other ways.

 

P.S. When I read her statement about if we ever do it we'll be trading up it made me think of my dear old Uncle Lloyd back in my teenage learning years. I think it was around 1965. He told me one day as we were fishing alone down at the creek. "Son, don't ever turn down a peace, you might miss the best peace you'll ever get."

 

Now my Uncle Lloyd was a character but I can state for a fact without batting an eye the worst peace I ever had was wonderful.

 

good luck Pal!

[snapps 78]

Hi,

 

Glad you guys are having a good time. Keep giving us updates as I think you guys are getting hotter and hotter, and heading straight towards what I think it is you are after and probably desire most. The most important thing i think you should keep in mind, and as you stated, is to LET HER SET THE PACE! Don't force anything...

 

Obviously you have realized this from her past blow-ups, so it's good you have came to this realization on your own. With that said, i wish ya'll the best and gonna be looking forward to hearing more updates from yall!!!

[DiscreetRayJay 15]

Hi,

 

Glad you guys are having a good time. Keep giving us updates as I think you guys are getting hotter and hotter, and heading straight towards what I think it is you are after and probably desire most. The most important thing i think you should keep in mind, and as you stated, is to LET HER SET THE PACE! Don't force anything...

 

Obviously you have realized this from her past blow-ups, so it's good you have came to this realization on your own. With that said, i wish ya'll the best and gonna be looking forward to hearing more updates from yall!!!

 

Thank you all so much for your wonderful support and advice. Here's the latest (I'm not assuming you are vested in my story, but hey, if you enjoy the updates, who am I to keep you in suspense).

 

On Sunday evening (the night following our visit to our local club, she asked me a question. First, she asked if a hot guy came up to us and was flirting/hitting on/hinting at things/etc... with her. What would I do? Assuming she meant "How would you feel?" I answered honestly. I said that I trust her and that I know she can handle herself (which she absolutely can). She basically told me that wasn't what she was asking. So to help gauge what she wanted from me, I asked her the same question.

 

When she replied, she said that ultimately she would wonder if I had similar ideas that the girl did. i.e. Would I be interested in that. I only made things worse. Note, we weren't fighting; just talking. I said that since we were at the club as voyeurs, I wouldn't be into doing anything with another woman. That's the truth, but it wasn't what she wanted me to say. I'll admit, I sort of sidestepped the question. I know, I should be honest, but I'll get to that. The conversation ended peacefully and happily.

 

The next afternoon we're sitting with a friend of ours who is interested in checking things out at the club too. We were in her living room talking about our evening and even planning a date to go with her and her husband. The subject came up again and when I gave the same answer as the night before, she got a little sharp with me. She gave me the "You're not answering the question." or "You know what? I'm done talking." or the dreaded "Whatever." I got really mad. Not because of what we were talking about, but because I don't like the passive-aggressive stuff. I walked out of the house and headed down the street. We didn't talk the rest of the day really.

 

Later that night, I decided I should give her exactly what she was looking for. She had gone to bed, and this was something I wanted to say start to finish without being interrupted or getting off on a tangent, so I decided to write her an email. I wasn't hiding behind my computer, I told her that I didn't want to do an email chain, just this email to clearly organize my thoughts and explain myself thoroughly. I even ended the letter by saying I want to talk face to face.

 

In the letter, I explained a few things. First, I explained that I have fantasies about being together with another girl or couple or small group. I explained that while I have fantasies, I would only ever want to fulfill them with her, not without her or behind her back. I further explained that if she isn't into that for any reason, they can just stay fantasies. Second, I explained that I have picked up on some signs that she might not have been completely honest with me about her fantasies.

 

Back while we were still just old high school friends who chatted on Facebook, we talked about sexual stuff but particularly porn. She asked my favorite and I explained it was anal. She too said it was her favorite. As we got closer and shared our porn, I got us all the anal porn I could get. We enjoy it together very much. I think it's no coincidence that we also enjoy anal sex together. Well, about two months ago, I was sitting with my laptop watching some porn. This was a gang bang video. She asked me if I liked it and I explained that while I do like it, it's not my favorite. She told me it was easily her favorite type of porn. I asked her why she never told me. She explained that I had never asked (which I did... see above). Now, I've been watching porn a long time. Yes, it's a visual stimulant, but really people, there is always a level of fantasy involved.

 

I asked her why she never really admitted to really liking that type of porn. Was it embarrassment? I don't know. Further, I asked her if she ever had fantasies about being part of one. On both counts, I explained that she should not be embarrassed and in fact that I enjoy discussing our fantasies together, so long as we do it completely and openly.

 

I went on to finish by saying that admitting my fantasies wasn't to hurt her feelings. I said that without her total trust, I could never have told her. I explained how much I love her and how much more important to me she is than any fantasy. I asked her to talk to me about what she had read here. That was Tuesday morning she read it. Since then, she hasn't so much as hinted at wanting to discuss it. It's almost as I never sent the email.

 

So again board members... What do I do? From what I gathered from the two conversations we had following our visit, she wanted to know whether or not I would ever swing. I explained to her that I would. The first time I said anything like that, she got really upset. This time she said nothing. She's not mad. We're talking together. We've made love. We have the fun little things we do like play punch dub (Volkswagen game), etc... She's clearly not upset by what she read there, yet she hasn't even acknowledged that she read it (which she did). To go one better - she is still looking at the club's calendar looking for dates for our next visit.

 

I'm totally confused. Any ideas I'm sorry to keep asking you guys this stuff, but I don't have anywhere else to turn. I would come right out and ask her to talk about my fantasies and her (possible) fantasies, but again, I'm afraid if I say anything about it, she'll get a little defensive and shut down on me - the last thing I want her to do. No matter where her head and heart are, I just want her to openly talk to me. What do I do? do I approach her and ask for her thoughts? Do I let her come to me? Should I wait for a bit, then ask her? Ugh!

 

You women really are an enigma!!! I Give up!!!

[DigginIt 1,132]

Wow, so without getting too deep there are a few things jump to my mind. She is struggling with the entire concept and it may be too much too fast. Again, it took Mrs Diggs about two years to come to terms with the idea and then she took the ball and ran with it. It sounds like your wife is struggling with the ideas and you can't win debates like this with reason. Feelings and logic do not go hand in hand.

 

If and when she ever comes to terms with the concept, they will be on her own timeline and not yours. All you can do is plant a seed and let it grow which it appears to be doing so. Don't pressure her or rush her. Just enjoy the fact that she even went to the club with you in the first place (huge coup in your camp) and that there is interest in going back. I certainly wouldn't push the subject and turn her off to actually going back again. Enjoy what you are currently doing today. Don't worry about tomorrow or next week. Relax and be patient. Let her reach her own conclusions and not yours Just remember to let her know how much you enjoyed what you did do and not about any disappointment from what you didn't do.

 

Love can't thrive in a winner/loser type of relationship. Stop trying to 'win' because in order for someone to win the other must lose. That breeds animosity. I know it's hard because you don't know what is going on inside her head. She may not know what's going on inside her head because she hasn't come to grips with it. She may never.

 

Women fill in the blanks. I might get smacked for that statement but they always do if you do not give them enough information. For instance, "Honey, do you think you could swing with another woman" and you answer "I think it could be fun" she has already appended 30 additional things to the end of that statement such as 'because you are not attractive any more' or 'because you think I'm fat now' or 'because I just don't get you excited in bed any longer' and the list goes on and on. Don't let her fill in the blanks from any insecurities she may have. Communicate honestly and explain how you feel, not with reasons why.

 

I think things are moving along, even if not at the speed you would like.

[prometheius 137]

DiscreetRayJay, Diggin' it has told you twice that it took two years for Mrs. Diggin it to come around. When they tell you to take your time, they mean it. This thread is only three weeks old and the two of you have covered quite a bit of territory already.

 

It sounds like you and your girlfriend are talking about swinging and voyuerism pretty often. My advice would be to back off and don't bring the subject up unless she does. Keep in mind, she is a woman, and women have unbelievable memories. She has forgotten Nothing that has happened or been said so far. When she wants to go to another party or to talk about where things might be going, she'll let you know. If she can't see clearly where she wants to go with this, don't try to force the issue as you'll only be setting yourselves backwards instead of forwards. If this is going to progress it will have to be on her terms.

 

Swingers go at the pace of the slowest person. Give her a chance and let her set the pace.

[DiscreetRayJay 15]

Oh guys (and gals),

 

I'm not pushing, rushing, etc... nothing. This whole thing is moving at her pace. All my mission is, is to figure out what direction we're moving. We've talked a bunch about the lifestyle lately because of our own situation, yes... but there is a couple on our block who is definitely looking for an experience. Whether or not they become full-fledged lifestyle members remains to be seen, but there is a lot of talking going on, because there is a lot going on right now.

 

We're going back to the club again on Saturday night - her call. She took me shopping again for sexy attire (for her). Again - her call. I'm letting her move this all at her pace, I guess I just wish she'd open up to me and let me know what she's been thinking about where we are, what she likes, what she doesn't like, etc...

I guess more than soliciting advice on how to do this whole thing, I'm here venting to you all. I don't have lifestyle friends I can vent to, and you don't talk about this sort of thing with the vanilla types, right? I really do appreciate your input, advice, and direction. I'm following it all to the letter. I still maintain that either she'll come around, open up and have some fun in the lifestyle or she won't. Either way, not many men can say their women likes going to a sex club. I'm a lucky guy, and I know that.

[WonderWhat 166]

Ray Jay, you're overanalyzing!

 

Things are fine. You're both window shopping, imagining yourselves in different situations and imagining your reactions.

 

You're trying things on for size, and following on the analogy, you're a bit surprised when some of the seams rip and the buttons pop off. But that's good, it tells you what fits and what doesn't.

 

And in that path of discovery, what surprises everybody the most is finding out that what doesn't fit you anymore are many of the prejudices you're examining. That's what's she's letting you know when she tells you that she "would" or "might" do something new.

 

Try to get more in touch with what you feel, and less with what you'd do; that's what your fiancée wants to know about you. You're thinking like a man, you're looking for things to fix, actions to carry out. Think more like when you're making love: what do you feel, enjoy, what turns you on. Then analyze that and decide whether you like it, and let her know too.

 

 

She wants to know that everything is still about her, and from your description, I guess it does. You want to see her participate in hot sex, just like the sexy woman she is. What turns you on revolves around her, not around mindless rubbing and exchange of bodily fluids. It's sex with her, the other people are participating too, but it's always between you two, even when and if it gets to separate room swap.

 

You're doing fine: you're letting her set the pace. Don't get all anxious about it and just show that you're there to support her always. Don't think about the destination, just enjoy the journey.

[DiscreetRayJay 15]

An update to all interested parties (and passersby who read this)... This one will be short and sweet.

 

I guess I was moving to fast... The good lord (or the universe for those of you who don't believe in God) has seen fit to slow us down to a near crawl. We found out on Monday night last week that we're having a baby! We have a six year old here (which belongs to her and her ex), but this is going to be my first. I could not be more excited, proud, and happier than I am right now.

 

For now, our forays into the lifestyle are on hold. I'm giving my entire self to her and our new family inside these walls for now. We haven't mentioned the club, the lifestyle, or anything related since we found out.

 

So, I guess that'll be it from us here for a while... You all have been so overwhelmingly polite and helpful. You're so welcoming and open it makes me glad to know there's a community of people out there for me/us. I'm sure we'll be back, but it won't be for a while. Be happy, be safe. Have fun!

 

-J & R:D

[fun4Ds 1,097]

Congratulations, J&R

 

Don't become strangers by any means, you can always be part of the community here.

 

 

fun4ds

[DiscreetRayJay 15]

Oh, no way will we step backwards. We're both having a good time! As for the story I've been telling though... I don't expect much change for a while!

[Willing29 66]

Congratulations on the little one. It's a little late advice but have you shown your GF this site/ thread yet? Ask her to poke around here and maybe even ask a few questions. Take it slow (very slow) and go at the pace of the slowest partner. Remember even if you don't swap you can have lots of fun going to the club and simply being surrounded by the sexually charged atmosphere. That's how we started and it can be tons of fun. Remember you still have to figure out that swing which could take lots of practice. Also keep in mind that sometimes women who arent really into it get a taste and can turn into a...... Well let's just say let the jenie out of the bottle so be prepared if that happens.

[10thBadger 25]

On 3/14/2010 at 3:22 AM, DiscreetRayJay said:

*** UPDATE ***

 

Ok folks... We just got home from the club listed in the story above... I'm again going to need your assistance... I'm even more confused now (I think). I'll start by giving a quick rundown of our evening... (quick, I promise!)

 

We checked in and were introduced to a host couple who showed us around and explained the rules. They escorted us to a private room which included a two-way mirror into the room next to us and a swing. We've always wanted to try a swing, but it's not something that you'd want to spend money on to find out you hate it, so it was awesome having one there if we decided to use it. Apparently my GF got hot just thinking about the swing, but we followed the tour along and grabbed a seat for dinner.

 

We had introduced ourselves to another local couple on Yahoo messenger. They met us there and sat with us over dinner and while some of the other club regulars danced. About 45 minutes later we decided to take a walk through the club and see what was going on (as per the voyeur mission). She immediately took me to the room with the swing. Upon entering, another couple entered the room on the other side of the mirror. They left the lights on but dim... we were able to watch them for a while. My GF wouldn't get to close to the mirror for fear that she'd be caught watching, LOL.

 

We shut our blinds so we were totally in private. Immediately disrobed and she got into the swing. The rookies we are - we didn't quite figure it out, so I tossed her on the bed and we had our way with each other. It was a good time and we're already making plans to go back... On to my questions:

 

Back at our table we were people watching and talking a bit. Then, she said something I NEVER expected her to say. I need your help interpreting. She said - "If for some reason my brain melts down and we ever did do something with a couple... We're definitely trading up, not down."

 

Please people, help me here!!! I didn't ask her to clarify that, so I don't know exactly what she meant by it... I sorta viewed that as an extremely fragile statement. If I asked her to clarify, I might break the fragile thing... I don't want to do that. What do I take from what she said? Is she considering something, if only prematurely and tentatively, or was she just talking? I'm confused, but optimistic. Is that right? Thanks again board members!!!

What your girlfriend was saying is pretty simple.

 

She was saying that if she would ever ever ever ever do something like that, her brain melting, she would want to make sure that the couple that you would play with would be extremely hot and super sexy and not just picking someone that was not good looking or not of her taste. That’s all she was saying. That’s why she said she would only trade up and not down.

[10thBadger 25]

On 3/18/2010 at 2:04 AM, DiscreetRayJay said:

 

Thank you all so much for your wonderful support and advice. Here's the latest (I'm not assuming you are vested in my story, but hey, if you enjoy the updates, who am I to keep you in suspense).

 

On Sunday evening (the night following our visit to our local club, she asked me a question. First, she asked if a hot guy came up to us and was flirting/hitting on/hinting at things/etc... with her. What would I do? Assuming she meant "How would you feel?" I answered honestly. I said that I trust her and that I know she can handle herself (which she absolutely can). She basically told me that wasn't what she was asking. So to help gauge what she wanted from me, I asked her the same question.

 

When she replied, she said that ultimately she would wonder if I had similar ideas that the girl did. i.e. Would I be interested in that. I only made things worse. Note, we weren't fighting; just talking. I said that since we were at the club as voyeurs, I wouldn't be into doing anything with another woman. That's the truth, but it wasn't what she wanted me to say. I'll admit, I sort of sidestepped the question. I know, I should be honest, but I'll get to that. The conversation ended peacefully and happily.

 

The next afternoon we're sitting with a friend of ours who is interested in checking things out at the club too. We were in her living room talking about our evening and even planning a date to go with her and her husband. The subject came up again and when I gave the same answer as the night before, she got a little sharp with me. She gave me the "You're not answering the question." or "You know what? I'm done talking." or the dreaded "Whatever." I got really mad. Not because of what we were talking about, but because I don't like the passive-aggressive stuff. I walked out of the house and headed down the street. We didn't talk the rest of the day really.

 

Later that night, I decided I should give her exactly what she was looking for. She had gone to bed, and this was something I wanted to say start to finish without being interrupted or getting off on a tangent, so I decided to write her an email. I wasn't hiding behind my computer, I told her that I didn't want to do an email chain, just this email to clearly organize my thoughts and explain myself thoroughly. I even ended the letter by saying I want to talk face to face.

 

In the letter, I explained a few things. First, I explained that I have fantasies about being together with another girl or couple or small group. I explained that while I have fantasies, I would only ever want to fulfill them with her, not without her or behind her back. I further explained that if she isn't into that for any reason, they can just stay fantasies. Second, I explained that I have picked up on some signs that she might not have been completely honest with me about her fantasies.

 

Back while we were still just old high school friends who chatted on Facebook, we talked about sexual stuff but particularly porn. She asked my favorite and I explained it was anal. She too said it was her favorite. As we got closer and shared our porn, I got us all the anal porn I could get. We enjoy it together very much. I think it's no coincidence that we also enjoy anal sex together. Well, about two months ago, I was sitting with my laptop watching some porn. This was a gang bang video. She asked me if I liked it and I explained that while I do like it, it's not my favorite. She told me it was easily her favorite type of porn. I asked her why she never told me. She explained that I had never asked (which I did... see above). Now, I've been watching porn a long time. Yes, it's a visual stimulant, but really people, there is always a level of fantasy involved.

 

I asked her why she never really admitted to really liking that type of porn. Was it embarrassment? I don't know. Further, I asked her if she ever had fantasies about being part of one. On both counts, I explained that she should not be embarrassed and in fact that I enjoy discussing our fantasies together, so long as we do it completely and openly.

 

I went on to finish by saying that admitting my fantasies wasn't to hurt her feelings. I said that without her total trust, I could never have told her. I explained how much I love her and how much more important to me she is than any fantasy. I asked her to talk to me about what she had read here. That was Tuesday morning she read it. Since then, she hasn't so much as hinted at wanting to discuss it. It's almost as I never sent the email.

 

So again board members... What do I do? From what I gathered from the two conversations we had following our visit, she wanted to know whether or not I would ever swing. I explained to her that I would. The first time I said anything like that, she got really upset. This time she said nothing. She's not mad. We're talking together. We've made love. We have the fun little things we do like play punch dub (Volkswagen game), etc... She's clearly not upset by what she read there, yet she hasn't even acknowledged that she read it (which she did). To go one better - she is still looking at the club's calendar looking for dates for our next visit.

 

I'm totally confused. Any ideas I'm sorry to keep asking you guys this stuff, but I don't have anywhere else to turn. I would come right out and ask her to talk about my fantasies and her (possible) fantasies, but again, I'm afraid if I say anything about it, she'll get a little defensive and shut down on me - the last thing I want her to do. No matter where her head and heart are, I just want her to openly talk to me. What do I do? do I approach her and ask for her thoughts? Do I let her come to me? Should I wait for a bit, then ask her? Ugh!

 

You women really are an enigma!!! I Give up!!!

Badgers wife,

 

The problem I see here is that you are still trying to run but trying to run quietly. My suggestion would be to do with my husband has done with me. After one bad experience at a club, our friend suggested this website because his wife and my husband‘s friend just go to look and entertain themselves. They do not swap at all even though it is probably something that they are considering.

 

After joining this website and actually looking at it after being totally disgusted at our first visit at a club. It is I who initiate anything with this website. It is also I Who runs to my husband and says hey you need to look at this question and look at the answers. I have even pulled my husband off of his elliptical machine for him to read something even though it annoys him sometimes lol. And at any time if I wanted to delete this account to this website, my husband would care less if I did so. He can actually take it or leave it. But everything is up to me.

 

If I was you I would not even do anything but let her do what she is doing right now and that is let her be in charge of telling you when to go to the club. And leave the club when she wants to regardless of what situation it is. It’s just your job to protect her from any harm. Let her be in charge and grow with the idea. Just like my husband is letting me do it right now. I have not even considered maybe going to a club and just looking and that is a huge leap for me. But if I decide to do so and change my mind at the last minute, my husband would not care in the least. And if your girlfriend ask you another load it question,  you know what she’s looking to hear. Just say it. Don’t give her any more ammunition that she already has about you wanting to swing. But at the same time she already knows that, sounds like you’re a woman is very nice and sweet. Keep her in that mood and you will have a wonderful life with her. 

[24fun4u 8]

Absolutely. Get back at your husband! F' as many guys as you get your hands on. Badgers wife has it right, teach that low down husband a lesson by f'ing everybody you can get your hands on. F' this swinger sh$t!