My wife wants to swing without me...with our roommate

[atlas 15]

My wife and I have been discussion swinging for a couple years but never took the plunge. A combination of nerves and lack of time just prevented us from making the leap. However, I've been plunged into a triad-ish situation, and I'm having a little bit of trouble with it.

 

My wife and I have lived with my best friend for probably 7 of the 9 years we've been married. We've recently stepped up the swinging talk again, and we didn't hide it from him. He's currently out of work and at home all day and my wife is home with our kids, one goes to kindergarten and the other takes long naps. Over the last couple months he became very flirtatious with my wife when I wasn't around. It went to the extent of laying out his penis for her to examine. This is when she let me know.

 

One night, when he was leaving town for the week, she told me about the situation and essentially asked my permission to take it further. I was hit with a mix of emotions. On one hand, it was excitement, on the other hand, fear. I gave my blessing because it sounded like fun. However, over the next couple days, my wheels kept spinning, and I've been battling jealousy and insecurity since.

 

We've had several talks where I went back and forth. I've been trying to find a place where I'm comfortable and she's happy. A comprise I offered was that I have to be around. Neither like that option because for him it was "weird" and for her it seemed controlling. On the last discussion, after he came back to town, I relented and gave her the green light again. It came down to the fact that she was angry that I was going back on my blessing, and the genie was out of the bottle. My mind was going to run wild either way. Therefore, we figured we march ahead and hopefully I'll get used to it. We're hoping it's just nerves. She's promised to keep me informed. Since then, only a handjob has occurred.

 

Saying "stop it" really is the worst option in my opinion. Talking about it gets us both hot, and I'd really hate to betray her in going back on my word. I think it'd be a step back rather than forward. Besides, it'd still leave me with trust issues. I'm fairly certain they'd listen if I asked it to stop, but I really dislike that option. I'm not sure it'd solve my insecurities.

 

The problem with going forward is, what if I don't get better? I'm having trouble concentrating at work due to always thinking about this. I have lingering insecurities. Whenever she's hanging around him I start getting depressed that she seems more excited to be around him than me. It turns to anger when I realize the only reason this has happened is that *I* have to go to work and watch kids while he gets to be around responsibility free.

 

I'm really having a hard time with this and looking for some help/advice. I know there are many no-no's here (swinging with someone you live with/open marriages seem to have a low success rate/taking one for the team), but I'm not sure what to do about them. I broached the idea of a MFM, but he wasn't too keen on that. Besides, I think this is ultimately an insecurity and trust issue on my side. I just don't know what to do about it. As much as we talk, I fear her growing weary of me whining about my insecurities. I'd just be transferring my stress to her.

 

I'm really sort of stuck. I think the primary problem is that the source of jealousy lives with us, so I have no solace. I really did this to myself. help?

[The Fuse 1,012]

atlas,

 

Ugh, buddy, I feel for you.

 

A friend of a friend went through a similar situation, and ended up losing his wife to the other guy.

 

The other guy lives with you. Like you said, there is no respite. He is always there. Why that works for you in the first place, is another big question. Do you tend to let people take advantage of you?

 

Whatever the reason he lives with you, it makes your situation very serious. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. I think you have two basic choices: either let it run its course to whatever outcome with him in the house and having sex with your wife, with you feeling unhappy the whole time, or take decisive action to change the situation. You'd pretty much have to throw him out and tell your wife you aren't comfortable with her seeing him at all. Either option is messy. If you do nothing, essentially you are picking option number one. Do you think your wife will go from being bonded primarily to you, to being bonded primarily to him? After all, they are together all day! I would be very worried.

 

Anyone see a third option? Continuing to live all together and telling them to stop, though you said you think they would, I'm betting would backfire pretty badly. Desire has a way of making people do stupid things. Your wife would be bummed and resentful. The other guy might feel entitled. If he can't handle only being with her when you are around, that means he is territorial and might try to steal her away from you. He may see weakness in that you relented.

 

Good luck, man. I hope it works out.

[xxxboxy 139]

Option 3 is to pursue swinging as you originally intended...before your wife get's completely intimate with your friend.

[sexcupid 809]

I would have to wonder how your friend is still living with you 7 years later? And jobless? And able to go out of town for trips?

 

I see you trying to be the "good guy" in the situation...because you want your wife to be happy...but honestly your comfort matters here too. So what if its weird for your friend...if he wants to fuck your wife, you want to be a part of it, then he needs to decide how badly he wants it to happen.

 

Talk to your wife...decide on ground rules. If you aren't comfortable, she should care. Sure it can be disappointing, kind of like telling a kid they are going to Disney World and you take them to a broken down old playground instead. But for goodness sake, think with the bigger brain. The two of you need to be solid and agree on terms...it will help some with trust issues if doing this is something you are both involved in, instead of you dictating rules at her.

 

Of course there is some insecurity involved...first of all its something new happening and you aren't sure how things are going to go. Secondly, you are gone a significant part of the day and they have plenty of opportunity to do what they want to do. You are worried that if you get uncomfortable enough to put the brakes on the situation that they are just going to do what ever they want to do.

 

There really isn't an easy to solution to this situation. Welcome to the SB...there is lots of great advice around here.

[HappyInClyde 15]

Wow...um...my 2 cents worth...I'll say that both your wife and your 'friend' have managed to create a situation where you are the 'bad' guy, where you are the problem. I have nothing against polyamory, or in this case, polyandry. In fact, I could see my wife and I in a polyandrous situation with one of our swinging friends. But polyandry and polyamory flow from a mutual respect from ALL parties involved, and in my most humble opinion, the third should never suppose to supplant the primary. The situation you describe seems to me to be that your wife and friend get to be at home alone while you go out and work and make their lifestyle possible. I hope everything works out for you guys, perhaps it's time for a man to man chat with your non-working, non-contributing friend and reassert the proper boundaries. Not to say that can't ever include sex with your wife, but if it's not coming from some level of respect for you...it's nearly bound to end in disaster. Best of luck!

[prometheius 137]

Hmmm, this sounds very familliar. Is someone still trying to release a book this spring, now, with slightly different circumstances? Seems the plot is still pretty much the same.

[atlas 15]

Thanks everyone, you've echoed a lot of my thoughts.

 

Just some general answers, we also live with my sister-in-law and her husband. My friends girlfriend was living here too until a month ago. The "situation" seemed to develop as their relationship was ending. We like the company of the big household and all get along, for the most part. They all pay rent. However, I handle the major expenses as the benevolent dictator.

 

Jobless was the easiest way to describe it. He's actually on disability for the last year and a half due to back surgery. It's possible this is all temporary in that he'll go back to work eventually. Furthermore, our youngest will hit daycare and my wife will go fulltime. Having money to go out of town but being scarce on rent is actually an issue I have with him. I don't make it a flash point because, in the past, he's good for it eventually.

 

My wife and I are each other's first and only. I think we're both attractive and HWP. However, she was heavy and shy in her teen years, and still still carries that self image a bit. I've always been rather introverted and easy going. My friend is a bit more of the alpha male type that attracts women but has trouble keeping them.

 

She intends on keeping the play soft for a variety of her own reasons, but I think she's being naive with herself on that one. Eventually, he'll push and my wife isn't the best at fighting peer pressure (example, she didn't think he really wanted to do anything when all this started).

 

I can't say the particular sex act bothers me. I think it's the idea of her being happier around him than me. I say "I think" because I'm rationally ok with all of it. It's become a game of guessing and managing my emotions. I know she still loves me, but it's the difference between the new toy and the old toy. Having my mind analyzing every situation can be torture. I don't want to be the old toy.

 

She's been stepping up the club talk, and sex has been more active the last couple days. The club has always been a problem because of babysitters. I really think she's trying to help me out. I just have to get past the thought of her playing defense so she can get back to her fun.

 

I'm going to suffer through this and hope it gets better or boring. Thanks for the words and any future. It's insightful to hear stories of similar situations even though we're all different.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Stop what you are doing, its not swinging. No one should suffer, or is tortured in swinging....

 

Your right, you did bring this on, so stopping all activity within the "household" is your stance and responsibility now. Personally, I think your struggling with feeling cuckold pangs or at least "alfa" conflicts. You have the money, he has the charm ?

 

When you and Mrs atlas began the subject of swinging was your friends girlfriend in the picture ? or did you have intentions of your friend alone, from her, then ? Maybe thats something to consider.

 

At this point, stop !! Until ya can all sort this out, you'll just be messing up a potentially "good" swinging situation.

[atlas 15]

There was an inside joke that if my brother-in-law and his friends girlfriend were out of the picture, we'd have the perfect situation. My wife and I agree that the joke is what probably dropped the barrier and emboldened him (she hopes she didn't lead to his girlfriends departure. I think it could have hastened but not caused.)

 

My wife and him do get along well. They're both artsy types and play video games together. Women have always gravitated to him a bit although I'm not sure why. Unfortunately, I'm more responsible and straight laced; a less dynamic personality. I end up the "bud" in a relationship while he's more often the "stud". I think that plays into my fears.

 

My wife and I work because we're both very easy. That's not all, but I think that's been a cornerstone. We generally don't create drama or demand much of others. Again, that's what makes this difficult because it puts me in the position to create drama.

 

Often, I want to flash out in anger screaming, "WTF! You guys took all my good intentions and applied them in EXACTLY THE WRONG WAY. Now I'm the asshole?!" However, I'm looking for positive resolution not a 10 minute power trip.

[atlas 15]

To who ever changed the title: Thank you. That's probably a clearer way of thinking of the situation.

 

I keep weighing my options:

1. Kick him out. That's going to be emotional napalm and I think leads to a longterm relationship scar.

2. Deal with it and enjoy the hyper libido. Maybe I can deal with being cuckolded. I never liked the idea and obviously still don't. I'm worried how long the emotional effects will last. Focus is crucial for my job, and I'm already suffering loss of appetite.

3 try to create an inclusive situation rather than the current exclusive. My wife likes the idea, in theory. However, he and she, keep using the word "weird". That makes this a distant possibility and shares problems with #2

4. Make the leap into wider swinging. Again, shares problem with #2.

5. Get a girlfriend. I hate this option because it's the typical open marriage problem. She will find boyfriends 100 times over me finding a girlfriend. It also feels like a revenge scenario. Least of all, between work and kids, the only way I could do this would be by neglecting her.

 

Really it's #1 or #2, #3 and #4 are just pain management strategies. #2 has been what I'm going with and seems the real winner as much as it's not a fix. Any more suggestions for coping strategies or something I'm missing altogether?

 

She's often said it'd be fine if I was swinging with her sister alone. That briefly looked like a possibility, but it quickly vanished. I can't help thinking I'm being a bastard because I was willing to have the shoe on the other foot.

[sexcupid 809]

There was an inside joke that if my brother-in-law and his friends girlfriend were out of the picture, we'd have the perfect situation. My wife and I agree that the joke is what probably dropped the barrier and emboldened him (she hopes she didn't lead to his girlfriends departure. I think it could have hastened but not caused.)

 

Ok, an inside joke with you and your wife...or an inside joke that the household knows about?! If we were living with 2 other couples and I knew one of the other ladies felt it would be more ideal if I was out of the picture (or that my SO was out of the picture) then I would be mighty uncomfortable living there.

 

Often, I want to flash out in anger screaming, "WTF! You guys took all my good intentions and applied them in EXACTLY THE WRONG WAY. Now I'm the asshole?!" However, I'm looking for positive resolution not a 10 minute power trip.

 

What exactly were your good intentions and how do you feel they were applied in the wrong way? This is the problem between fantasy and reality...fantasies tend to go the way you want them to because you control the players...reality involves the machinations and desires of the other people. I do not think its right that they are making you feel like the bad guy here.

 

What does a positive resolution look like to you?

[xxxboxy 139]

The danger item here is that swinging is a no strings attached activity and what is going on in your house most definitely has strings attached.

 

I'll be honest with you from my perspective; what's going on isn't swinging, it isn't poly-anything...it's much closer to cheating.

 

I think option 1 is your best option, the relationship scaring is going to happen regardless. With any other option you're the only one getting hurt.

[atlas 15]

Ok, an inside joke with you and your wife...or an inside joke that the household knows about?! If we were living with 2 other couples and I knew one of the other ladies felt it would be more ideal if I was out of the picture (or that my SO was out of the picture) then I would be mighty uncomfortable living there.

 

It started between my wife and I. I think she shared it with her sister. I'm not sure at which point it was shared with my friend. I think it was after the penis incident but before I was made aware.

 

 

What exactly were your good intentions and how do you feel they were applied in the wrong way? This is the problem between fantasy and reality...fantasies tend to go the way you want them to because you control the players...reality involves the machinations and desires of the other people. I do not think its right that they are making you feel like the bad guy here.

 

Applied in the wrong way is more or less exactly what you said. When you share fantasies and then people run with it. Then they get offended that they "followed your advice" and you're getting upset. In reality, they didn't exactly follow your advice. They applied their interpretation of your advice.

 

I'm in the wrong in thinking it was going to be OK and giving an initial green light. It was, like you said, a problem of my fantasies conflicting with my reality. However, I'm not sure I would have felt a lot more confident if I stopped it cold.

 

What does a positive resolution look like to you?

 

The best scenario is that I get over it, and she gets bored with him.

 

We similar situation occur 2 years ago where she was chatting with someone on Second Life, and his advances were starting to get under my nerves (asking where she lived, when she was home, etc. He would tell her when he was going to be around our area. ) I let it go but started to get uneasy when I thought I noticed her behavior change, more private. Upon my wishes, she shut him down. However, this time, it's not so easy to shut down.

 

Again, I'm at work while some young guy with not a care in the world is free to romance my wife. Swinging was a WE journey and, in both situations, they're becoming ME journeys.

 

I don't want to believe I'm too jealous for all this. The flashing hand job isn't what has bothered me. It's the sense that the party starts when I leave.

[sexcupid 809]

It started between my wife and I. I think she shared it with her sister. I'm not sure at which point it was shared with my friend. I think it was after the penis incident but before I was made aware.

 

I can't imagine telling my sister that I want her to fuck my SO...and that it would be ideal to get rid of her spouse. That is disrespectful to their relationship.

 

I am about to get nosy here...but is it actual financial necessity that you have had 6 adults sharing living space for 80% of your married life? It seems that boundaries and privacy are at best blurred lines in your household. If you didn't have these roommates, would you be able to support your family? Perhaps the best thing that could be done is to clean house all the way around and reclaim space for you, your wife, and kids.

 

 

They applied their interpretation of your advice.

 

I'm in the wrong in thinking it was going to be OK and giving an initial green light. It was, like you said, a problem of my fantasies conflicting with my reality. However, I'm not sure I would have felt a lot more confident if I stopped it cold.

 

I just went back and reread your OP...and this is how I am piecing together what you have said:

 

Friend's girlfriend moves out...he starts flirting with your wife while everyone else is at work, things finally escalate to where he exposes himself to her...THEN she finally tells you what's been going on all that time? You let your hormones take over and think "hot!" and green light activity that you have already been excluded from for months and now think that they are going to include you in on. Both get defensive and think its weird that you want to be involved now. And on top of that, make you feel like an ass for not being comfortable.

 

 

The best scenario is that I get over it, and she gets bored with him.

 

And your relationship suffers in the mean time? What kind of living environment is this for the other members of the household and your children? At some point they are going to be less than discreet and others are going to find out (if the sister doesn't already know since obviously your wife can't keep an inside joke inside).

 

 

 

Swinging was a WE journey and, in both situations, they're becoming ME journeys. I don't want to believe I'm too jealous for all this. The flashing hand job isn't what has bothered me. It's the sense that the party starts when I leave.

 

These are the points you need to bring up to your wife. Example: we have talked about doing this before and I thought it would be something that we could be doing together...not dreading going to work every day because I feel like the party is happening without me being involved in anyway.

 

Why isn't your wife more concerned with how you feel? If her responses tend along the "well you said I could do it" or "this is what you wanted" then I don't know what to tell you. She is caught up in the excitement of "oh new toy!" and probably has a little bit of tunnel vision. Do a role play...or propose a role reversal...what if it was you that had another lady around doing these things and your wife was excluded when she wanted to be involved?

[Chicup 41]

Be a man, say no, kick him out. My gut tells me he and she already had sex.

 

This will not end well, as its obvious you do not want to be part of a MFM triad.

 

Also time to find a home without a roommate. Roommates are for college students.

[atlas 15]

I can't imagine telling my sister that I want her to fuck my SO...and that it would be ideal to get rid of her spouse. That is disrespectful to their relationship.

 

I have to agree, but her sister says similar things when he's drinking beer and I'm working out. I think it's a shitty thing to say, but I can't fix that either.

 

I am about to get nosy here...but is it actual financial necessity that you have had 6 adults sharing living space for 80% of your married life? It seems that boundaries and privacy are at best blurred lines in your household. If you didn't have these roommates, would you be able to support your family? Perhaps the best thing that could be done is to clean house all the way around and reclaim space for you, your wife, and kids.

 

If I'm gonna share my sex life, I might as well open up the financials. It's an obvious question anyway. I've lived on and off with my friend for most of my life, so when he was looking for a place to stay it was a natural fit. My sister-in-law and her husband moved in with our second house, 2 years after my friend was living with us.

They pay $250 per room equaling $500 on a $1600 mortgage. I pay all utilities including cable. My wife's income is hers to keep. Groceries are a mixed bag, some shared, some not. If everyone disappeared it might mean a lower cable package and less meals out, but that's all. His rent has been missing for almost all of the last 2 years with one bulk payment after a disability settlement about 4 months ago.

 

We like the company. If we need privacy, we go to our room or have a night out.

 

Kicking people out would break my wife's heart, and I've never asserted that sort of dominating control in the relationship even though it may be financially my right. It may be a worse option for fixing the problem then the problem itself.

 

I just went back and reread your OP...and this is how I am piecing together what you have said:

 

Friend's girlfriend moves out...he starts flirting with your wife while everyone else is at work, things finally escalate to where he exposes himself to her...THEN she finally tells you what's been going on all that time? You let your hormones take over and think "hot!" and green light activity that you have already been excluded from for months and now think that they are going to include you in on. Both get defensive and think its weird that you want to be involved now. And on top of that, make you feel like an ass for not being comfortable.

 

And your relationship suffers in the mean time? What kind of living environment is this for the other members of the household and your children? At some point they are going to be less than discreet and others are going to find out (if the sister doesn't already know since obviously your wife can't keep an inside joke inside).

 

Not to mention leaving me with the question of what details are being left out? If details come slow, they can come not at all too.

I think the the flirting became serious when his relationship went in the shitter, but she was still here. Yes, he deserves a kick in the nuts for that alone.

In her defense, we've all been flirty in the past. "We're all bored tonight. How 'bout a foursome?" "You wouldn't say that with my cock in your mouth!" All parties are in earshot, for the most part, with these comments. They've been usual fodder like friends calling each others names. Genitals have been seen.... teasing all around. ...so this doesn't come out of left field.

BTW, nothing goes on with children around. For them, it's like having their aunt and uncle around more often. My wife and I try VERY HARD to keep our child responsibilities from bleeding over to roommates.

 

These are the points you need to bring up to your wife. Example: we have talked about doing this before and I thought it would be something that we could be doing together...not dreading going to work every day because I feel like the party is happening without me being involved in anyway.

 

Why isn't your wife more concerned with how you feel? If her responses tend along the "well you said I could do it" or "this is what you wanted" then I don't know what to tell you. She is caught up in the excitement of "oh new toy!" and probably has a little bit of tunnel vision. Do a role play...or propose a role reversal...what if it was you that had another lady around doing these things and your wife was excluded when she wanted to be involved?

 

That exact conversation did some up. That was the first time I put the brakes on it, and I was met with backlash from her.

I've emphasized the "WE" portion of swinging but that doesn't seem to click. With role play, it's easy for someone to say, "sure, I wouldn't have a problem with it." while reality might be different. Even if they're ok with it, *I* still might have *my* problem.

It IS the new toy problem. I told her she could have the shiny new toy and now I want to take it away. I'm the jerk for pissing in her Cherrios.

We've talked about the issues I'm having but the reaction is far more disappointment on her side which is when I get the sense I'm screwed anyway. "I knew you couldn't handle swinging." has been thrown out there and she doesn't seem to understand it's a completely different dynamic at play. If I had a problem with my wife enjoying the company of another man, I would flipped on day 1.

 

I'm thinking I should have her read the thread more than anything. The only hesitation is that I don't want her to get the feeling I'm going out to build support against her. I don't want me vs her. I wanted us.

[atlas 15]

Be a man, say no, kick him out. My gut tells me he and she already had sex.

That fear hits me too, but my trust hasn't slid that far. I think she's leaving out details but not that badly.

 

Also time to find a home without a roommate. Roommates are for college students.

 

I humbly disagree. However, my situation says you're right.

[xxxboxy 139]

Leaving out any details is unacceptable. Chicup has the right of it.

 

They're fucking, but you're the one getting fucked.

[slevin 1,374]

Be a man, say no, kick him out. My gut tells me he and she already had sex.

 

Agreed. No idea how to give advice here other than to agree on kicking him out. Will it cause issues with your wife? More than likely. Will you lose her? Potentially. If you let this continue unimpeded you may lose her as well. You need to do what is best with you and your relationship.

 

For the record I also think she's fucking him. I think she had already done something sexually with him before she had even brought it up to you.

 

The fact that she kept things from you for a long period of time is troubling. You need to take control of this situation. Stop being taken advantage of by your wife (sexually) and your friend (both financially and sexually).

[dnc2006 15]

Atlas, my heart breaks for you. As chicup said, my bet is that they have already had sex.....home all day together. You deserve so much better. Swinging is not the resolution to this issue. But, I know you have kids which makes things harder. She sounds like she is battling her own insecurities by giving in to the flirtations of this "friend" of yours. She has to be stronger.....you deserve that and should tell her.

 

Both my boyfriend and I are wanting to swing to bring us closer together and explore sexual fantasies....TOGETHER! If I feel at any time it is a generally selfish motive (of course there will be selfish moments) and our intentions change, I will stop and it will be his choice to stop with or without me.

 

Sorry....my two cents. Whichever decision you make, i hope you are happy.

 

D-n-C

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

I'm going to suffer through this and hope it gets better or boring. Thanks for the words and any future. It's insightful to hear stories of similar situations even though we're all different.

 

I agree with The Fuse's original post here. Doing nothing is consenting to this guy having sex with your wife while you remain uncomfortable and unhappy with the situation. Submitting yourself to it as some forced means of "getting used to it" is not an answer geared towards happiness. You'll be left with two sub-choices; be happy your 'friend' is fucking your wife, or be unhappy about it. You won't have a say anymore as to whether your wife can have sex with him or not.

 

Letting the genie out of the bottle and trying to put it back in is controlling? Wow. I mean fucking wow. If your wife has an ounce of caring for you, she shouldn't be saying something like that. You're supposed to be walking together in this, but instead she's thrown you aside now that you said 'yes' and completely removed any concern you may have as having validity. That is cold, heartless, and cruel. In essence, she's saying "Fuck you, you said yes. Get over it, asshole, because I'm going to be fucking your friend while you're at work and there's not a damn thing you can do about it".

 

However, I'm looking for positive resolution not a 10 minute power trip.

 

A positive resolution is your 'friend' puts his cock back in his pants and respects your wishes. You've offered to let him have sex with your wife if you're around, but that's not comfortable for him. Instead, you're supposed to accept being uncomfortable with him having sex with your wife while you're NOT around. I'd tell him in no uncertain terms, "Either I'm involved, or it's not happening. Period." It's not a matter of control. It's a matter of you are the married person here, and he doesn't have the right to place his comfort above yours with your wife.

 

1. Kick him out. That's going to be emotional napalm and I think leads to a longterm relationship scar.

 

As opposed to letting them continue and go farther in their sexual relationship, for months, until the situations goes nuclear on its own. Yeah, I'll go with option (b); let it go nuclear on its own.

 

Focus is crucial for my job, and I'm already suffering loss of appetite.

 

Which should be a massive billboard telling you "STOP!"

 

try to create an inclusive situation rather than the current exclusive. My wife likes the idea, in theory

 

Except your 'friend' and your wife consider his comfort to be of greater value than your comfort.

 

Make the leap into wider swinging.

 

So long as your wife continues to have sex with your 'friend', getting into wider swinging isn't going to solve anything.

 

Get a girlfriend.

 

As you note, she'll have a lot more boyfriends than you will have girlfriends. I'm ok with this but I doubt you are, and again as long as she continues having sex with your 'friend', the dynamic remains the same.

 

#2 has been what I'm going with and seems the real winner as much as it's not a fix

 

#2 will go nuclear. It's not a solution, that is if you want your marriage to be intact six months from now.

 

I think she's leaving out details but not that badly.

 

Huh???? Not that badly? When does leaving out details become 'badly'? I can't even begin to process this. My wife and I don't keep things from each other with any intent to do so. We might forget to mention something now and then, but there's never any intent. If your wife is willfully withholding information from you, especially information she thinks you'd find hard to accept, she's lying to you.

 

I'm with Chicup; she's already had sex with him, and multiple times probably. You say she hasn't for a variety of reasons, but I seriously doubt it. She's alone with him hours every day. They've already crossed the border into sexual activity. They've already shoved you aside and told you your concerns are no longer valid because you said 'yes'. The other shoe will drop; you will find out she's having sex with him.

 

I would go with option #1. Kick him out. He's a slacker, and not paying rent. I don't care if it appears he might be good for it. Without a job, he has no significant source of income. Which will break your wife's heart more, kicking him out or the destruction of your marriage? Weigh the two. if you think kicking him out will break her heart more, than you need to start looking for a lawyer.

 

If you take no action, and let the situation continue as it is, I have zero sympathy for you. Everyone here is telling you how it is. You know the score, even if your wife is willfully withholding that information from you. You can be (a) stupid, and let the situation go on, in which case you're facing divorce or (b) get smart and focus on your marriage.

 

Stop being stupid.

[Gordo 618]

Rule #1 never take one for the team. This situation breaks that already. You are uncomfortable and don't want what's happening. That comes through loud and clear.

 

Rule #2 This is a "we" activity. Anytime my wife starts telling me that it's "WEIRD" having me involved in sex with her.. her head is somewhere it shouldn't be.

 

It's time to say no and the problem needs to move out. You're worried about your future relationship with him but he's obviously not worried about you and further if your wife left with him would you have a future relationship with him anyway?

 

This isn't really swinging it's an affair (already or blossoming) with coerced permission.

[prometheius 137]

I’m not going to mince words here. I don’t want to come off as being brash, but I’m going with my gut feeling on this one. Man, grow a pair and take control of this situation. This is your’ house and your wife. If you want to keep them both, kick the lame ass dude out now. He’s not your friend even if you don’t want to believe it. If he was, he wouldn’t be doing what we are all sure he is. He’s not even man enough to do it in front of you; he has to wait until you’re gone. Your wife won’t like it if you do that, but you might regain some of the respect that you deserve as bread winner. If you are going to sit back and hope somebody gets “bored”, you may as well do yourself a favor and sign the house and kids over to the two of them now and be done with it all.

[atlas 15]

Ok... I spent Sunday stewing about it and told my wife it stops.

 

I was only going to get more pissed, and I'm allowed to change my mind at any point.

I figured if the situation was reversed, I'd put it back in my pants, so can she.

 

After 9 years of marriage, I'm willing to gamble that I can trust her. I think I know her that much. As much as I think she drops details, I don't think she's doing it maliciously, as a conspiracy. Besides, if she wanted to outright cheat, why tell me at all? She could have kept me clueless for the last 7 years. I trust her that she's shared the major details even if our opinions on what is important may sometimes differ.

 

Her reaction was actually of relief. She witnessed my reaction over the last week, and said it was upsetting her too. She said she was also having a little problem with the fact that he lived here. It turns every situation into a "date" situation where you're always wondering what they're thinking. The tension wasn't worth the brief excitement.

 

She apologized for her reaction when we previously had discussed "rules". It's easier to deal with a straight up or down than trying to worry about when you are "in bounds" or "out of bounds". Her was reaction a mix of disappointment and confusion at that time. However, she thinks the stress of transitioning from fantasy to reality quelled the disappointment.

 

Yes, he's staying around, and no, I have not talked to him about it. I don't give a crap about his opinion, and I trust my wife to be able to tell him "no, thanks." I trust him, just like before, that he won't force her against her will.

 

Don't take one for the team. Make friends of swingers not swingers of friends. Don't swing with neighbors....... Yes, we fucked up. I think it's going to be ok, though. Then again, maybe I'll be blissfully unaware. Either way, we feel better, and I think I can trust her.

[PB&J 1,086]

I don't have much more to say than the other posters, but as a woman, I'd say that yes, they are having sex. You are getting used, and if she's got self-esteem issues then she's getting played pretty good too. I know of a similar situation with a non-swinging couple, where the friend who was rooming at their place talked his way into her pants, and the marriage ended. She was VERY insecure and easily manipulated, and the "friend" took advantage of that. You need to watch out for your wife as well as yourself, not to mention those kids. I hate to say it, but this friend of yours sounds like a real prize, and should be booted. Then do what you need to do to save your marriage, THEN maybe think about swinging. But what is going on now isn't swinging.

 

You posted while I was writing! I hope that this gets things resolved, but it could be very hard to get that toothpaste back in the tube. If he's staying, how does this situation get defused?

[atlas 15]

I’m not going to mince words here. I don’t want to come off as being brash, but I’m going with my gut feeling on this one. Man, grow a pair and take control of this situation. This is your’ house and your wife. If you want to keep them both, kick the lame ass dude out now. He’s not your friend even if you don’t want to believe it. If he was, he wouldn’t be doing what we are all sure he is. He’s not even man enough to do it in front of you; he has to wait until you’re gone. Your wife won’t like it if you do that, but you might regain some of the respect that you deserve as bread winner. If you are going to sit back and hope somebody gets “bored”, you may as well do yourself a favor and sign the house and kids over to the two of them now and be done with it all.

 

I think what everyone is missing is that we sort of brought this on ourselves. We openly talked about swinging in front of him. That gave him a legitimate opening. She and I screwed up in not realizing that we're talking about more than sex because he lives with us. We only saw the sexual freedom when making decisions.

 

I don't believe she's been fucking him the whole time. I think it's a matter of we created a situation and found ourselves in predictable results.

[atlas 15]

One other thing, my wife was fine with kicking people out if that's what it comes to. When I said "Kicking people out would break my wife's heart", that only applies to her sister. She'd live with that too, though, if I demanded it. I realize conflating the two parties gives the wrong impression.

I also gave the wrong impression on my wife's comfort with my friend. From what she says, and I'd probably agree, that they're not *that* comfortable. He's still more my friend than hers, even though they get along. She still is uncertain around him vs the ease she talks to me.

My fears we're probably coming through in text. However, in a sexual in-house relationship, how long would that be true? All the more reason to stop.

[Chicup 41]

I hope you are right.

 

Still I'd get one of those hidden cameras you can download for later viewing, but thats just me. He did whip it out for her as you said.

 

Plus I'd still kick him out

[atlas 15]

Still I'd get one of those hidden cameras you can download for later viewing, but thats just me. He did whip it out for her as you said.

 

Believe me, it occurred to me. However, that's almost as devastating to her if she's innocent and found out I trust her so little.

 

He did whip it out, but we invited it in with our talk. She said, that he said, that it's only if it's ok with me. The problem is that I don't know if he said that after she told him that's the situation (sorry, difficult to word).

 

The sexual sharing isn't the problem. The fact that I'm on the outside and left to wonder is the problem. That only invited suspicion and jealousy.

[Chicup 41]

Believe me, it occurred to me. However, that's almost as devastating to her if she's innocent and found out I trust her so little.

 

He did whip it out, but we invited it in with our talk. She said, that he said, that it's only if it's ok with me. The problem is that I don't know if he said that after she told him that's the situation (sorry, difficult to word).

 

The sexual sharing isn't the problem. The fact that I'm on the outside and left to wonder is the problem. That only invited suspicion and jealousy.

 

I understand completely. Years ago my wife and I, while dating, were in a very long distance relationship. She was barely out of her teens and at college, I was several 100 miles away. I had friends at my school which were her 'safe' dates for dances and the like. These were guys I knew were very nice, very trustworthy, and sexually inept. I told her I only wanted her to go with those guys not because I didn't trust her (I did) but because I didn't trust most guys.

 

Now your friend may be trustworthy, but he may have the fire going to. Your wife might be completely trust worthy but he still might be trying to convince her. If I were you I'd get something to record not because of her but because of him. I'd want to know if he was disrespecting the arrangement even if she was remaining true. She might not want to cause issues by telling you of his advances/innuendo.

 

I suppose its just my personality, but I always want to be prepared and have all the information I can.

[snapps 78]

Be a man, say no, kick him out. My gut tells me he and she already had sex.

 

This will not end well, as its obvious you do not want to be part of a MFM triad.

 

Also time to find a home without a roommate. Roommates are for college students.

 

Exactly my point... I mean really now, wtf were u thinking having a guy stay with you and your wife for so long??? You were asking for trouble..... thats just not smart man. On top of that, i think its a 90% chance that they have already had sex... Your wife obviously has no respect for you, and neither does your roommate... this is just dumb... Also, FYI, this is NOT SWINGING, this is her wanting to fuck out on you (if she hasnt already done so)... Plain and Simple... In other terms, she is cheating on you....

[lizandtom 512]

I can't say the particular sex act bothers me. I think it's the idea of her being happier around him than me. I say "I think" because I'm rationally ok with all of it. It's become a game of guessing and managing my emotions. I know she still loves me, but it's the difference between the new toy and the old toy. Having my mind analyzing every situation can be torture. I don't want to be the old toy.

 

I'm going to suffer through this and hope it gets better or boring. Thanks for the words and any future. It's insightful to hear stories of similar situations even though we're all different.

 

As previously said, swinging is to be comfortable for everyone, at all times, or it isn't swinging; it's a prelude for 'kept secrets.'

 

Your emotional uncertainty is understandable and normal because you aren't there to perceive if their bond is crossing the line past sex and into 'mental gratification,' for lack of a better term.

 

If it's an emotional roller coaster now from not knowing what's in their heads when together, I predict it will only get worse, and the bonds that build up will be MUCH harder to break between them later on. Kudos to you for trying to keep your promise as the good guy, but if I were you I'd lay down the law, as the slowest one of the bunch; sex only when you are present or none at all, AS A TRIAL, but if you decide you aren't comfortable with it, then the deal is off. This has much more profound ramifications than you think imho. At some point it is going to come down to some very hard choices, some blowups, but better sooner than later, in order to keep your marriage intact.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

 

Yes, he's staying around, and no, I have not talked to him about it. I don't give a crap about his opinion, and I trust my wife to be able to tell him "no, thanks." I trust him, just like before, that he won't force her against her will.

Atlas ~

 

From reading your posts it seems you don't intend to discuss all this with him, your roommate, the guy whose housing you are paying for because he hasn't paid his own way in two years.

 

If you and your wife talked about sexual things with him before he showed his penis to her, if you talked about swinging/swapping with him, then why the hell do you feel you can't talk about the issues at hand now?

 

Talk to him.

 

He needs to hear from you and your wife, not just your wife. You share a house, you say you are great friends, talk to him. You should have absolutely no guilt about changing your mind on sharing your wife with this guy. Tell him you and your wife have reconsidered and decided becoming sexually involved doesn't feel right. Tell him that exposing himself, along with sexual flirtations between him and your wife needs to end. Your wife can say this to him but unless he knows that you know what has transpired (and he won't know for sure unless he hears from you) he will not be fully convinced of the new rules in the house. Since you aren't kicking him out, you better take a stance and set down the new rules.

 

Don't make your wife be the man of the house.

 

LM

[couplers 4,614]

Hi, Petra here. Wow. I don't have anything to add except a big "Thank You" for posting. I say "wow" because your situation in some ways is like my own (started with one of us (me) in the married couple playing alone with permission), but our situation began in a different context that caused to me hold beliefs that would be wrong if applied to your case. Previously I believed (and was usually in the minority when expressed here) that we cannot help who we have sexual desires for, and if one spouse loves the other allowing him/her to follow through on this desire without conditions or reciprocal expectations is a tremendously loving gift. I admire your acknowledgement that the sex act itself isn't the issue because it isn't, but there is so much else going on with the manipulation on his part that the advice given here by the other members is wise. And I admire your wife's maturity to realize that this is one of those times when allowing her to have sex with this particular person is not a good idea, even if you generally are willing to give her sexual freedom.

 

Best of luck in making the lifestyle work, because ultimately the lifestyle is wonderful.

[NCfuncouple98 367]

Want to hear a real-life story from a female?

 

DH and I discuss swinging. We do swing with a single male friend of his. Have an amazing time! He lives in another state, so it was done.

 

Enter male#2. Practically lived with us - 3-4 nights per week. Mr NC had an odd schedule, and often worked weekends. Male#2 was always around. Single, no real dating prospects, no where else to be. He knew about our experience with Male#1, and wanted a piece of it. Well, me to be more specific. I loved the attention, oh how I loved it! The flirting got heavier and heavier and it almost got sexual, without Mr NC around. Let me tell you, I absolutely wanted him. No doubt. Mr. NC, like you, wanted to swing, not have an open relationship. This whole situation was making him extremely uncomfortable, but it didn't stop me from pushing the idea that there wasn't much of a difference, really.

 

One night I finally convinced the both of them that we should try MFM. It was awkward, to say the least. Male#2 even wanted to stay in our bedroom and cuddle afterwards, and Mr. NC absolutely did not like that. It got to the point that Mr. NC hated going to work on the weekends knowing Male#2 would be around, all day, kids or no kids.

 

We took him to a swingers club one night, tried the MFM thing again. It wasn't working.

 

Bottom line: Male#2 got too comfortable in Mr. NC's shoes, thinking he was playing second husband when Mr. NC wasn't around. It took Mr. NC coming unglued, confronting Male#2, for me to even realize what I was doing. Male#2 is no longer around. We talk via phone once in a while, but that's it. Haven't seen him in months.

 

It took me over a year for me to understand what really happened, and my role in it. After 13 years together, completely monogamous and faithful, my hormones went raging after our first swinging experience. The tigress had come alive, but in all the wrong ways.

 

Thank GOD Mr. NC knows me so well, and figured out what was going on, before it had gone on any further. He not only confronted me, but he did confront male#2. It had to happen. I seriously could have ruined my marriage with the way I was carrying on.

 

Now, a year and half later, we swing with couples, occasional singles, and life is grand. But what an experience we had to work through to get there.

 

I seriously hope that your conversation with your wife Sunday does end the situation. But if for one moment in your gut you feel things aren't right, stand up for your marriage and confront it, with both of them.

[atlas 15]

if one spouse loves the other allowing him/her to follow through on this desire without conditions or reciprocal expectations is a tremendously loving gift.

 

That's somewhat what I had in mind. It was something I believe in rationally, but my emotions just weren't cooperating. Maybe I'll get there some day, but it was just too big of a leap for our first venture.

 

We both thought it'd be easier because it was with someone we trust more than a stranger. However, my trust just didn't go far enough.

 

Want to hear a real-life story from a female?

 

Yes. Thank you for sharing the story. I may not be searching for "normal", but it's always nice to know you're not alone in a situation.

 

Thank GOD Mr. NC knows me so well, and figured out what was going on, before it had gone on any further. He not only confronted me, but he did confront male#2. It had to happen. I seriously could have ruined my marriage with the way I was carrying on.

 

Now, a year and half later, we swing with couples, occasional singles, and life is grand. But what an experience we had to work through to get there.

 

I seriously hope that your conversation with your wife Sunday does end the situation. But if for one moment in your gut you feel things aren't right, stand up for your marriage and confront it, with both of them.

 

I think we're going to be ok. We've had a couple little follow-up talks and there will be more. I still get little random jitters but nothing like it was before "the talk".

 

We discussed the dropping of details, and I believe her in that it's an honest mistake. I was in a state of heightened suspicion, so what she saw as harmless flirting looked like plotting and planning to me. There's often some raunchy flirting that goes on, but it's seen in a much different light when the talk is a possible reality.

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

That's somewhat what I had in mind. It was something I believe in rationally, but my emotions just weren't cooperating. Maybe I'll get there some day, but it was just too big of a leap for our first venture.

 

There's no race here, and you're perfectly fine going at your own pace. Any couple getting into swinging should always move at the slower of the two paces.

 

We both thought it'd be easier because it was with someone we trust more than a stranger. However, my trust just didn't go far enough.

 

This can actually have the opposite effect. Going to a swinger club and playing with someone you've never met before, and may only occasionally (if ever) run into again in the future is for some people a much more comfortable situation than playing with a good friend. You can actually feel more trust for the stranger, as there's no hidden agendas (usually). They're there to play/have fun, and that's basically it. With a good friend, there's a whole host of other possibilities involved.

 

We are very good friends with a couple who are in the lifestyle. We met them long before we got into the lifestyle, and both they and us got into the lifestyle on our own, without knowledge of the other couple venturing down that path. On the surface, it would seem to make sense to play with them. We really like them, click well with them, enjoy their company, etc. Nope. We don't play with them and almost certainly never will. We're all much happier that way.

 

 

I may not be searching for "normal", but it's always nice to know you're not alone in a situation.

 

Nobody is normal except by their own definition applied to themselves. Anyone else searching for 'normal' is valuing themselves based on someone else's criteria.

 

Also, no matter how freaky/weird/out on the edge someone is, they are not alone. There's someone else out there perched on the edge of the bed with them. The Internet has allowed people who thought they were alone in their views to get together in comparatively large groups.

 

We discussed the dropping of details, and I believe her in that it's an honest mistake. I was in a state of heightened suspicion, so what she saw as harmless flirting looked like plotting and planning to me. There's often some raunchy flirting that goes on, but it's seen in a much different light when the talk is a possible reality.

 

If you don't trust someone, and you go looking for evidence of their breaking of trust, you'll find it. Or, at least you'll think you've found it. Perception changes everything. Either you trust or you don't. That's not to say you should be stupid and play the part of the unknowing fool.

 

I still think you should get this freeloader to move out, regardless of what is or isn't going on between him and your wife.

[it'sso 198]

Move your wife's parasite out and move one of your own in to replace him. I'd recommend a gal at least ten years younger than your wife and let her get her turn in the envy department.

[magnum 78]

My wife and I have been discussion swinging for a couple years but never took the plunge. A combination of nerves and lack of time just prevented us from making the leap. However, I've been plunged into a triad-ish situation, and I'm having a little bit of trouble with it.

 

My wife and I have lived with my best friend for probably 7 of the 9 years we've been married. We've recently stepped up the swinging talk again, and we didn't hide it from him. He's currently out of work and at home all day and my wife is home with our kids, one goes to kindergarten and the other takes long naps. Over the last couple months he became very flirtatious with my wife when I wasn't around. It went to the extent of laying out his penis for her to examine. This is when she let me know.

 

One night, when he was leaving town for the week, she told me about the situation and essentially asked my permission to take it further. I was hit with a mix of emotions. On one hand, it was excitement, on the other hand, fear. I gave my blessing because it sounded like fun. However, over the next couple days, my wheels kept spinning, and I've been battling jealousy and insecurity since.

 

We've had several talks where I went back and forth. I've been trying to find a place where I'm comfortable and she's happy. A comprise I offered was that I have to be around. Neither like that option because for him it was "weird" and for her it seemed controlling. On the last discussion, after he came back to town, I relented and gave her the green light again. It came down to the fact that she was angry that I was going back on my blessing, and the genie was out of the bottle. My mind was going to run wild either way. Therefore, we figured we march ahead and hopefully I'll get used to it. We're hoping it's just nerves. She's promised to keep me informed. Since then, only a handjob has occurred.

 

Saying "stop it" really is the worst option in my opinion. Talking about it gets us both hot, and I'd really hate to betray her in going back on my word. I think it'd be a step back rather than forward. Besides, it'd still leave me with trust issues. I'm fairly certain they'd listen if I asked it to stop, but I really dislike that option. I'm not sure it'd solve my insecurities.

 

The problem with going forward is, what if I don't get better? I'm having trouble concentrating at work due to always thinking about this. I have lingering insecurities. Whenever she's hanging around him I start getting depressed that she seems more excited to be around him than me. It turns to anger when I realize the only reason this has happened is that *I* have to go to work and watch kids while he gets to be around responsibility free.

 

I'm really having a hard time with this and looking for some help/advice. I know there are many no-no's here (swinging with someone you live with/open marriages seem to have a low success rate/taking one for the team), but I'm not sure what to do about them. I broached the idea of a MFM, but he wasn't too keen on that. Besides, I think this is ultimately an insecurity and trust issue on my side. I just don't know what to do about it. As much as we talk, I fear her growing weary of me whining about my insecurities. I'd just be transferring my stress to her.

I'm really sort of stuck. I think the primary problem is that the source of jealousy lives with us, so I have no solace. I really did this to myself. help?

 

 

Good luck...

 

I wouild suggest that you do a MFM play date, if he, the roommate can not handle that, to bad for him, this is your wife and your call. If he has insecurities about a MFM, that is his problem. I would give the roommate an ultimadum, and tell you wife that if she wants to play with him, you wnat to be present and it has to be a MFM.

 

Good luck...Be strong...

[Chicup 41]

Good luck...

 

I wouild suggest that you do a MFM play date, if he, the roommate can not handle that, to bad for him, this is your wife and your call. If he has insecurities about a MFM, that is his problem. I would give the roommate an ultimadum, and tell you wife that if she wants to play with him, you wnat to be present and it has to be a MFM.

 

Good luck...Be strong...

 

 

Someone didn't read the thread.

[GoNatural 104]

In my opinion, there was a possibility for a polyamorous relationship to arise from this situation. It would have been a "Vee", and not a triad.

 

While Atlas was mulling over options, I saw this as an option. Everyone else said, "stop, this isn't swinging". True, it isn't swinging, but polyamory is a possiblity, especially if you enjoy living with small groups of adults. I guess what supports the choice to stick to swinging instead of trying polyamory is that Atlas stated that he was interested in swinging. He didn't state an interest in polyamory.

 

Yes, he would have been the new toy. That's how it goes. New relationship energy is real. Nevertheless, both Atlas and his wife could have read about new relationship energy together, and how poly people manage to keep relationships balanced when the NRE is high with a new partner.

 

I totally understand the feelings of insecurity. I'm in a relationship with a married poly woman. I live with one of her lovers. He is taller than me, better educated, earns 3x as much money, has a bigger dick, is funnier, talks more, gives better massages, eats pussy better, goes to more parties, etc... The only things I have are that I'm younger, more fit, and she and I share 2 hobbies that he does not. I have to face my insecurities quite often. Still, I'm happy to be in this relationship with that woman, and living around poly people. It is my chosen way of life.

[Adam-n-Eve 223]

For him to show your women his junk before you've taken the plunge into swinging is flat-out disrespectful. There's only two reasons for doing that:

 

1) So she can suck it

2) So she can take it

 

OK, she can stroke it too, but you get the point. He took it out hoping she would pleasure it in some way. It wasn't to show her the interesting way it gleams in the light of your new CFL bulbs. If you two didn't have an agreement in place at that point in time, he has betrayed your trust. That's trouble.

[Lascivious L&L 866]

Two points stand out that throw doubt on the depth of his friendship toward you. One is that he hasn't talked directly with you about his desire for your wife and you haven't been able to talk directly and frankly about your feelings about his actions. This level of communication is not friendship quality.

 

He doesn't want a threesome. This is key. He wants your wife to himself without you being a part of it. It's a classic indication of his desires for your wife over any desire for your friendship.

 

If you can't discuss his desires or his financial dependence on you directly and frankly with him, he is not your friend in any meaningful definition of friendship. His actions speak loudly that his friendship with you doesn't hold a candle to sliding his cock into your wife. And he doesn't show much respect for your wife in pressuring her for a fuck while refusing to do it within a threesome.

[mixtupcpl 169]

Late to the party... but NC, AWESOME and honest post. Loved that one...

 

To the OP, personally, I dont feel I can give you advice on the live in guy thing b/c its something I would never do. I can say "kick his ass OUT!" but thats because I would have never let him be there to begin with, which means it obviously isn't really relevant advice for your situation...

 

I do think you need to talk to this guy though. You clearly view him as a good friend. I believe he was inappropriate. Stop thinking that because you discussed swinging with him he can take his dick out. Some of our vanilla friends know that Mrs and I are open (VERY few though). If one of them whipped it out while I wasnt around and he happened to be over my reaction would be ... unfriendly... It's just not how things work.

 

I mean would he do that with a *single* girl? It's disrespectful to your wife. Because you're considering an alternate lifestyle doesn't mean your wife is suddenly a whore.

 

Of course the fact that she didn't react badly is kind of unfortunate and I'd have been tempted to sort of criticize her for that, but reading NC's awesome post I kind of "get" that now.

 

 

Soooo... update! If you're still around Id really love to hear whats gone on with the friend.

[atlas 15]

Nothing much has changed since my last post. I asked my wife to end it. According to him and her, that has been the case. I still get suspicious once in a while, but for the most part, things are back how they were before this all started. I still have lingering trust and fears about it, but I trust *her* enough that I haven't lost it.

 

He and I haven't talked much, and he completely avoids the topic. At the same time, he's been more conversant with my wife than in the past. I'm not sure what to make of this, but again, I'm trusting her.

 

In hindsight, I should have reacted more aggressively(?) to his advances instead of running with the fantasy (him cheating "in spirit" with his girlfriend, making advances on my wife without talking to me, being completely closed to a threesome). I should have spotted the completely selfish behavior and reacted. However, it's hard bring it up after the fact. I guess I'm a little slow. I have no plans of kicking him out, although I think I could possibly be happier in that case. I guess I haven't decided if the confrontation is worth it.

 

After putting an end to it, we did attend our first club a couple weeks later(we just played with each other). We plan to go again this weekend.

[Willing29 66]

As it has been posted many many times before playing with friends is a no-no is so many ways. You two need to have clear and specific ground rules at least in the beginning and talk, talk, talk. You should also ask this guy to leave the house especially since your wife said she would be fine with it. Even if he didn't fuck your wife, he totally fucked you.

[mixtupcpl 169]

He and I haven't talked much, and he completely avoids the topic. At the same time, he's been more conversant with my wife than in the past. I'm not sure what to make of this, but again, I'm trusting her..

 

Thanks for posting! Personally, I think this is a bad sign. I don't like giving people advice when it comes to dealing with confrontational situations because everyones approach is different and must be dictated by who they are, but I would definitely caution that this has the makings of trouble.

 

If I had to guess... My guess would be that your wife possibly did cut things off, but shifted the blame to you. He reacted in a way that would make him look heroic to her, but with the plan in mind that he will manage to push you out of the picture.

 

If you still consider this guy a friend, my suggestion is to think long and hard on it.

 

I can think of a lot of reactions to this situation from his end... Totally distancing himself from both of you... Seeking to repair the relationship with you... Anger and resentment leading to some sort of confrontation... I think any of these would be expected and manageable. What you are describing, though, seems to be a kind of calculated strategic response.

 

Is he still rooming with you guys?

[atlas 15]

Thanks for posting! Personally, I think this is a bad sign. I don't like giving people advice when it comes to dealing with confrontational situations because everyones approach is different and must be dictated by who they are, but I would definitely caution that this has the makings of trouble.

 

If I had to guess... My guess would be that your wife possibly did cut things off, but shifted the blame to you. He reacted in a way that would make him look heroic to her, but with the plan in mind that he will manage to push you out of the picture.

 

If you still consider this guy a friend, my suggestion is to think long and hard on it.

 

I can think of a lot of reactions to this situation from his end... Totally distancing himself from both of you... Seeking to repair the relationship with you... Anger and resentment leading to some sort of confrontation... I think any of these would be expected and manageable. What you are describing, though, seems to be a kind of calculated strategic response.

 

Is he still rooming with you guys?

 

Yes, he's still rooming with us. He's been talking about moving out due to the flameout of his most recent relationship (after my wife, a separate long overdramatic story). My wife and I are rooting for him to move.

 

That would be the simplest answer: moving out. I have anger toward him, but not enough to let it manifest. I trust my wife to keep him in check, but I don't like her being in that position.

 

The only time I raised the conversation, he quickly backpedaled out of it. He's always been very private about his life, so it's not out of character for him to avoid it. I think there's also guilt on his side and fear of my anger. On the same token, he's much more of a romantic and easily falls for his fantasies. I worry that he's setting my wife up as "the one that got away". I don't like the thought of him pining for her, falling in love with the fantasy of her.

 

I guess it boils down to that I trust her. I think she's strong enough to keep him out, and I think she's over the fantasy. Therefore, it's not worth making destructive efforts.

[PB&J 1,086]

Dear lord. How is getting him to move out destructive? It sounds constructive. It doesn't matter how "strong" your wife is; even if nothing happens, you need to get some physical separation between the two of you and him. If you think it's possible that he may be falling for some fantasy version of this relationship- get him out! Don't want to sound offensive here, but you seem impossibly passive in this whole situation. This current menage sounds ruinous for everyone. Someone has to step up and be proactive- how about you?

 

Look, you ended your original post with:

I'm really sort of stuck. I think the primary problem is that the source of jealousy lives with us, so I have no solace. I really did this to myself. help?

 

Overwhelmingly, the advice to you has been to kick him out. If you don't want her to have to be the one to keep him in check, make it unnecessary and take care of the problem once and for all.

[Adam-n-Eve 223]

Yes, he's still rooming with us. He's been talking about moving out due to the flameout of his most recent relationship (after my wife, a separate long overdramatic story). My wife and I are rooting for him to move.

 

That would be the simplest answer: moving out. I have anger toward him, but not enough to let it manifest. I trust my wife to keep him in check, but I don't like her being in that position.

 

The only time I raised the conversation, he quickly backpedaled out of it. He's always been very private about his life, so it's not out of character for him to avoid it. I think there's also guilt on his side and fear of my anger. On the same token, he's much more of a romantic and easily falls for his fantasies. I worry that he's setting my wife up as "the one that got away". I don't like the thought of him pining for her, falling in love with the fantasy of her.

 

I guess it boils down to that I trust her. I think she's strong enough to keep him out, and I think she's over the fantasy. Therefore, it's not worth making destructive efforts.

 

OK, this is going to be harsh, but I can't believe no one has said this yet:

 

I'm not following your logic. You are angry with this guy, he has brought trouble into your house, he has brought problems into your marriage, and he made sexual advances to your wife. You're not even sure how welcome or unwelcome these advances were, but you've left it up to your wife to manage the situation -- which most likely means it's a source of constant strain and stress for her. Meanwhile you seek to avoid any confrontation as you both fervently hope this guy's life fall apart bad enough that he'll want to move out.

 

Is that about right? What part of this sounds like a good idea to you? What part of this suggests you've got any control over your life or what happens around you?

 

Now, to make things worse, you're going to start swinging? You don't have the fortitude to handle problems that threaten your marriage when they happen in your own home with your own friends, and now you're going to put yourself in a position where you're going to be faced with these kinds of issues on a regular basis? This too sounds like a good idea, does it?

 

Communication is the most important thing in the lifestyle. You appear to have a dread of communicating with people. You see talking about and managing serious problems as "destructive." If you can't talk openly and honestly with the couples you play with, you're going to bring drama and strife into their lives, and that's not OK. If you follow the pattern you've already shown, you're going to be that couple who won't communicate your rules to others, then get mad when they violate your rules -- then finally run from the situation when they try to get clarification of what happened.

 

Sorry to be blunt, but we don't need you, we don't want you. You're the messed up couple we're trying to avoid. You have no business being in the lifestyle and it's not going to end well for your marriage. But, the worst thing is that you could take others down with you as they get wrapped up in your drama. God forbid you get mixed up with another new couple who ends their time as swingers (or even their marriage) with the impression that swinging is nothing but drama and danger after getting involved with you.

 

Stop being selfish. I understand that you want to be swingers, but you are clearly not emotionally ready for such a thing. You can't even manage your own household. Please, stay away and don't spread your problems to people who are well adjusted. Fix your problems at home before you venture out into a world that's filled with potential land-mines.